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Jerusalem - Reporter Feels Charedi Mob's Hate in The Holy City |
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Ultra orthodox demonstrators try to prevent from cars to enter the Karta parking lot on Saturday July 4, 2009 The Karta parking lot is a replacemant for the Safra parking lot that sparked riots in Jerusalem due to the objection of the Ultra orthodox in Jerusalem. Photo by Matanya Tausig/Flash90
As a journalist I've covered more than my share of protests. Political protests in Canberra. Unions protesting for better conditions. Angry, loud protests against governments, or against perceived abuses of human rights.
I've been at violent rallies in East Timor. I've had rocks and metal darts thrown my way. I've come up against riot police.
But I have to admit no protest - indeed no story in my career - has distressed me in the way I was distressed at a protest in Jerusalem on Saturday involving several hundred ultra-Orthodox Jews.
This particular protest has been going on for weeks.
Orthodox Jews are angry at the local council's decision to open a municipal carpark on Saturdays - or Shabbat, the day of rest for Jews.
It's a day when Jews are not supposed to do anything resembling work, which can include something as simple as flicking a switch, turning on a light or driving.
So even opening a simple carpark to accommodate the increasing number of tourists visiting Jerusalem's Old City is highly offensive to Orthodox Jews because it's seen as a desecration of the Shabbat, by encouraging people to drive.
I was aware that earlier protests had erupted into violence on previous weekends - Orthodox Jews throwing rocks at police, or setting rubbish bins alight, even throwing dirty nappies or rotting rubbish at anyone they perceive to be desecrating the Shabbat.
But I never expected their anger would be directed at me.
I was mindful I would need to dress conservatively and keep out of harm's way. But I made my mistake when I parked the car and started walking towards the protest, not fully sure which street was which.
By the time I realised I'd come up the wrong street it was too late.
I suddenly found myself in the thick of the protest - in the midst of hundreds of ultra-Orthodox Jews in their long coats and sable-fur hats.
They might be supremely religious, but their behaviour - to me - was far from charitable or benevolent.
As the protest became noisier and the crowd began yelling, I took my recorder and microphone out of my bag to record the sound.
Suddenly the crowd turned on me, screaming in my face. Dozens of angry men began spitting on me.
Humiliated and degraded ABC Middle East correspondent Anne Barker (ABC News)
Spit like rain
I found myself herded against a brick wall as they kept on spitting - on my face, my hair, my clothes, my arms.
It was like rain, coming at me from all directions - hitting my recorder, my bag, my shoes, even my glasses.
Big gobs of spit landed on me like heavy raindrops. I could even smell it as it fell on my face.
Somewhere behind me - I didn't see him - a man on a stairway either kicked me in the head or knocked something heavy against me.
I wasn't even sure why the mob was angry with me. Was it because I was a journalist? Or a woman? Because I wasn't Jewish in an Orthodox area? Was I not dressed conservatively enough?
In fact, I was later told, it was because using a tape-recorder is itself a desecration of the Shabbat even though I'm not Jewish and don't observe the Sabbath.
It was lucky that I don't speak Hebrew. At least I was spared the knowledge of whatever filth they were screaming at me.
As I tried to get away I found myself up against the line of riot police blocking the crowd from going any further.
Reassurance
Israeli police in their flak jackets and helmets, with rifles and shields, were yelling just as loudly back at the protesting crowd.
For once I found them something of a reassurance against the angry, spitting mob.
I was allowed through, away from the main protest, although there were still Orthodox Jews on the other side, some of whom also yelled at me, in English, to take my recorder away.
Normally I should have stayed on the sidelines to watch the protest develop.
But when you've suffered the humiliation and degradation of being spat on so many times - and you're covered in other people's spit - it's not easy to put it to the back of your mind and get on with the job.
I left down a side street and walked the long way back to the car, struggling to hold back the tears.
And the irony is that my recorder, whose use had so offended the mob, had a dodgy flash card in it.
I hadn't been able to record a thing at all.
For all my illicit "work", I went home with nothing.
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Read Comments (126) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:25 PM Bizayon Says:
What a Chillul Hashem!!
Quite sad.
2
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:25 PM Anonymous Says:
It could be partially true and I feel sorry for her if it is, but the fact that her recorder has nothing to show is quite suspicious.
3
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:20 PM Anonymous Says:
Enough is enough .this is a major chillul .don't give me your bull that it's fir sake if shabbos , just daven , enough it's insane .no wonder why the world hates us .
4
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:20 PM Anonymous Says:
These people are animals the police should spray them with water canons maybe that will shit them up they would want their stramels to get ruined.
5
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:19 PM Chilul Hashem Says:
Let THE BADATZ read this CHILUL HASHEM! Masei YUDAI L'HISPUEIR!
6
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:19 PM Bunimfrombrooklyn Says:
What a חילול ה׳
this is on ABC let alone it's in australia too
7
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:17 PM Anonymous Says:
This, too, will be part of the evil conspiracy. Never the "chareidim". Of course this story never happened. Pure fiction, right?
8
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This, too, will be part of the evil conspiracy. Never the "chareidim". Of course this story never happened. Pure fiction, right? ”
dont be fooled she acts as if she tried not to offend anyone and tries to turn it into a feminest or racial act she isnt trustworthy is it just by chance her recorder was broken when she goes to do a job a person makes sure your equipment is working how often is a flah card broken and anyway she knew it offends them if she drives and drove anyway and she missed the point they were upset because she was making them violate the shabbos you cant talk if youre going to be recorded thats the halacha even though you did nothing to turn it on and second the arabs always intimdate the reporters even beating them up threating to kil them and youll never hear a word
9
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:33 PM Anonymous Says:
Can someone explain to me which “Gadol” condones this behaviour? This article is liable to distance millions and millions of Yidden from Torah and Shabbos. Disgusting.
10
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:33 PM Anonymous Says:
"No Comment"
11
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:32 PM Unortho Says:
It is time for the 'rabbis' to get the h** out of here! They are clearly the problem. Ortho 'jews' are clearly a problem an an eyesore for other jews and non - jews. It has nothing to do with Lipa, unkosher cell phones, Indian wigs, unchecked lettuce or other stupidity the taliban 'rabbis' (sic) are mind controlling on their victims. This is clear abuse and they should be prosecuted and persecuted to the full extent of both jewish and civil law!
12
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:29 PM kigel Says:
real chillul hashem! Im not sure what warrants these protests! Especially those there that dont consider the govt legit etc.. not a jewish state etc.. what do you expect? In borough park they don't close streets...
13
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:29 PM jru Says:
What a chillul hashem. These people may have the right intentions when they start these rallies, but they end up like animals. This is unaceptable coming from frum people. I am not mekane their gehinom.
14
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:54 PM Anonymous Says:
Its interesting, she's not claiming the mob beat her, they didn't even touch her. I think that shows a lot. Spitting degrades, as perhaps they were allowed to. Did this reporter ever try to go in a mosque with shoes on.And continue to keep them on after being told to take them off! Whatever would be left of her, would have much more issues than some slimey spit.
15
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:54 PM daas baal habeis Says:
Wow terrible the worst riot ever she got spit... And she wants to tell us its not the 1st time she was cought in middle of a riot tell her to go cover the protest in iran she would not been spit upon she would be KILLED
16
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:49 PM Anonymous Says:
“ dont be fooled she acts as if she tried not to offend anyone and tries to turn it into a feminest or racial act she isnt trustworthy is it just by chance her recorder was broken when she goes to do a job a person makes sure your equipment is working how often is a flah card broken and anyway she knew it offends them if she drives and drove anyway and she missed the point they were upset because she was making them violate the shabbos you cant talk if youre going to be recorded thats the halacha even though you did nothing to turn it on and second the arabs always intimdate the reporters even beating them up threating to kil them and youll never hear a word ”
Right, it wasn't spit, it was rain. In yerusholayim, in Tamuz.
17
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:42 PM Anonymous Says:
And then the Charedi complain that they are persecuted........ I am chareidi and only have disgust for the Rabbonim who have let their followeres act in such revolting ways.
And don't tell me this is just the "bored souls"....this exposes the utter rot in (sad to say) our society.
18
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:40 PM big shtocker Says:
What a chillul hashem. Someone will have to answer for this after 120 years.
19
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:38 PM Anonymous Says:
Absolutely ashamed to be frum and "chareidi" at the moment. Utterly ashamed.
These people not only push away the secular they push away the FRUM as well!!!!!!!
I feel like vomiting.
20
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:58 PM Anonymous Says:
And this will go onto the news in Australia..... And we in Australia can now expect anti-semitism to only get worse.
Thanks for nothing....
a frum Jew living in Austrlaia
21
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:00 PM Anonymous Says:
alas hut a shier.. you think that hashem is proud of this, i really dont think so... its big chilul hashem. absolutely not the right way to protest. lay yourself down on the floor to black the cars to go through. what a crazy world
22
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:12 PM Shlomi Says:
The screaming thugs may dress like observant Jews but they are nothing more then screaming thugs. They do **NOT** represent anything Jewish they only represent their own warped version of Judaism. As an orthodox Jew I am in tears at what happened to you. An above post uses the phrase: Chilul Hashem. It means the desecration of G od's name. And that is exactly what it was. A complete and total thuggish disgrace. As an orthodox Jew I apologize to you for their despicable behavior.
23
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:28 PM Anonymous Says:
wow!!! how sad!!
while most frum people have a lot of great qualities.... there are many that have this mentality of only being nice to their own... meaning jews that are on their specific level of frumkeit...
i myself am chareidi and grew up in a very chareidi neighborhood. ..and my family fell victim to some - not all....only a very few people who acted really wild... eggs were thrown at our windows...a bochur even pushed me to the ground (im female) where i hurt my wrist....when some people feel you are not exactly fitting into their specific criteria...they may become somewhat violent or really verbal... .
yet, in the frum world there is also more chessed and more chessed organizations than anywhere else...more tzedaka is given...
so i really don't know what to think...i geuss there is good and bad everywhere... either way May Hakadosh Baruch Hu only see the good in all of klal yisrael and may we only see the good in eachother and ultimately freet mashiach bekarov!!!
24
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:26 PM MIESQ Says:
Truly no reasonable person can condon the type of violence Ms. Barker encountered. However, her lack of understanding of local cultural norms only serves to compound what may have been an honest mistake to an albeit unwitting act of provocation. How ABC does not employ a cultural consultant to advise journalists regarding local custom and mores is shocking.
Accommidating additional traffic in Jerusalem on Shabbos can be see from the protestors' eyes as a diminishing of the Jewish character/. Jewish soverigronty within Jerusale. Enclaves of Shabbos violations are akin to beacheads of an invading force. What Shabbos and Jerusalem mean to any Jew let alone to those whose observance is extreme.
Taking drastic measures then come in to focus.
Ms. Barker at that time ceased being a nuetral observer but an actual threat to these peoples' way of life.
While this does not justify the bad behavior described understanding the other side allows for a far more balanced reportage.
25
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:21 PM Anonymous Says:
If this is not proof of the total lack of midos and daas torah among the Chareidi rabbonim who called for these demonstrations, I'm not sure what would be. Its time to start thinking about moving some of these people out of Yerushalayim to some city in the negev where they won't be offended by normal life and where they cannot do any harm.
26
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:15 PM JD Says:
What religion do these folks belong to? Not Judaism, at least not the one that is in the Shulchan Oruch.
27
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:42 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Its interesting, she's not claiming the mob beat her, they didn't even touch her. I think that shows a lot. Spitting degrades, as perhaps they were allowed to. Did this reporter ever try to go in a mosque with shoes on.And continue to keep them on after being told to take them off! Whatever would be left of her, would have much more issues than some slimey spit. ”
even though you are right...that had she been faced by an arab mob she would have been lynched..
and here she was only spit on ... be we are not arabs...we are klal yisrael...kedoshim tehiyu....mamleches v'goi kadosh....a holy nation has to do better than ok...
28
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What a Chillul Hashem!!
Quite sad. ”
It is called Shabbos kodesh because it is Holy and NO one can desecrate it. Her job as a journalist is to take risk and she is strictly supposed to report and not take ANYTHING personal. Regardless of the rioters attititude , comments or point of views. This is NOT about charedim or Shabos Kodesh. This reporter is a fake and her dignity has been touched. Poor little girl she is NOT a reporter!! She is a Fake!! Now as for the charedim, shame on all of you saying anything so aweful about other yidden! Shabos kodesh an d yerushalayim need to be protected and defended. We are yidden who need to support each other!! Forget the fake!!
29
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:40 PM Israel must respect its own citezens Says:
If you can't take the rain don't go outside. Why wouldn't a government respect the wishes of its citezens. If they were amish then their costoms would be perserved and respected. But because they are jewish and remind their secular counterparts of what they are supposed to be doing ie keeping g-d's comands, they must be punished. We lost Gush Katif for the same reason - so much blind hate of the religios - caused the weekening of the entire country.
30
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:39 PM Anonymous Says:
i'm so embarassed!!
one of the Aseres Hadibros before shmiras shabbos is not to use Hashems' name in vain- by wearing frum garb and spitting at someone- jew or non jew, frum or not frum, male or female- you are using Hashems' name in vain.
because when we represent yidishkeit we have to act a certain way....there is a way to protest... there is a way to do everything... the Torah is our guidebook and i'm sure there are instructions on how to deal with such a situation...it surely doesn't say to spit on people.
everything i'm saying is not to be makpid on these people....may they do teshuva and be blessed either way.,..
31
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:34 PM A Golus Yid Says:
To #8 and #14: The fact that the Arabs would behave even worse towards her is not something we should be proud of! Is that the best we frum Yidden have to offer--that there are Arabs that would do worse?! We should be behaving far, far better than that, and not comparing ourselves to Lowlives who would be worse. We should be comparing our behavior to what Hashem would want of us, and by that comparison, we certainly have a long way to go.
32
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:58 PM Anonymous Says:
It is sad I am at a loss for words, I need some time to reflect on this Chillul Hashem. Why should a none Jewish woman, have to put away the tape recorder on Shabbat. This is exactly what I meant the Chillul Hashem perpetrated during the demonstrations or the Chillul Hashem of a none Jewish woman being spit on by so-called Chareidiem, far outweigh the Chillul Hashem from an open parking lot. And this demonstration supposedly was more peaceful, I hate to think what was last week.
33
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:55 PM Anonymous Says:
it says ''kol hakoais keilu oived avoidah zara.....'' this behavior is clearly kaas which is like worshipping idols...which might be worse than chilul shabbos....
i'll daven for all of us to do tshuva and receive Hashems' blessings, may we all be blessed.
34
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ dont be fooled she acts as if she tried not to offend anyone and tries to turn it into a feminest or racial act she isnt trustworthy is it just by chance her recorder was broken when she goes to do a job a person makes sure your equipment is working how often is a flah card broken and anyway she knew it offends them if she drives and drove anyway and she missed the point they were upset because she was making them violate the shabbos you cant talk if youre going to be recorded thats the halacha even though you did nothing to turn it on and second the arabs always intimdate the reporters even beating them up threating to kil them and youll never hear a word ”
How would a tape recorder, record and authenticate spit all over her??? Tape recorders only help corroborate (support with evidence) a reporter's observations but arent necessary as proof for each and every story. Electronic equipment can break down all the time -- ever pull out your camera to find the battery is dead?
35
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:17 PM Chassidishe Ger Says:
Thank you #30 & #31
No matter how wrong it is for this parking garage to be open on shabbat Kodesh in our beloved Ir HaKodesh. THIS WAS HORRIBLY WRONG!!!!
I don't care if this behavior wasn't as bad as the arabs, the Iranians or the Klingons!
We are supposed to be an Am Kodesh of B'nei Torah - A BEN TORAH WHO HAS YIRAT SHAMAYIM Does not spit and scream at an unarmed woman PERIOD.
Can we all agree on that?
Why are we defending a mob of people on a destructive path of Chillul HaShem???
Anyone who wants to Shamor et HaShabbat
- by preventing another Jew from desecrating it -
PAY ATTENTION
- this is NOT the way to do it.
This is NOT L'Shem Shamayim. It is perverted piety.
I wrote Ms. Barker a note asking her not to judge our Torah and our faith by these brutes claiming to practice and "defend" it.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/contact/feedback.htm
The three weeks are coming and I am deeply ashamed
36
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:16 PM Anonymous Says:
a father once approached the chofetz chaim with his daughter or son.. who was going on the wrong path..... everyone tried talking to the individual....he chofetz chaim said to give him one minute ....you know what he did? he cried with real tears and kept saying over and over again in a calm and saddened voice "shabbos, shabbos, shabbos..." and the person was chozer betshuvah.. the moral of the story is that he didn't spit, or scream , or wave his fist ...in a sincere voise he expressed his sincere pain over chilul shabbos..
i may have the details of the exact story wrong.. but this is the moral..
i'm sure the gedoilim didn't have the violence in mind... everyone could have sang zemiros or chanted shabbos, shabbos....
i read in the mishpacha a while ago that in the early 1900's there were many rabanim who would march every shabbos and sing and chant... to protect chilul shabbos.. they surely didn't act violently...(i wasn't there but this is what i read..)
May Hashem have rachamanus on is.. i'm sure they don't intentionally want to cause a chillul Hashem they are just doing what they think is right.
37
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:14 PM Shmuel Ben Gedaliah Says:
Well, the reporter Anne Barker is an experienced 'journalist' and touted as a Middle East Correspondent. So why did she deliberately drive into a protest about driving in Jerusalem on Shabbat? Why did she deliberately use electronic equipment thereby publicly desecrating the Sabbath in the area Holiest to Judaism, ie the old City of Jersualem where the Holy Temples of Judaism stood and where Judaim's holiest sacred site, the Western Wall, now stands? She must have deliberately sought to offend the local indigenous population of Jews and thus in many respects she got what she deserved! Or is she trying to plead ignorance?. Well in that case one needs to question her professionalism and commitment to the Job for not doing the most basic of background googling and research into the local customs of the area in which she is reporting. One would hope that if Anner Barker were sent to any area of the World she would bother to research local indigenous customs and endeavour to be culturally sensitive. I imagine that if she was sent to Papua New Guinea or, indeed, Australian Aboriginal sacred sites she would endeavour to enquiry about local customs and may modest efforts not to cause offense. As they say when in Rome do as the Romans do. When in Jerusalem do as the Jews do! As an Australian Taxpaper I do not approve of unqualified culturally insensitive individuals working for the publicly funded Australian Broadcast company being placed in areas in which they can cause offense and in which that offense could rebound and tarnish Australia's own image abroad!
As for the "irony" of the reporter's equipment, itself, failing to function on the Sabbath, I suggest that may well have been due to Divine Intervention!
38
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:07 PM ahzahletz Says:
wtf is she thinking of going near a chariedy protest
39
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:05 PM Anonymous Says:
“ If this is not proof of the total lack of midos and daas torah among the Chareidi rabbonim who called for these demonstrations, I'm not sure what would be. Its time to start thinking about moving some of these people out of Yerushalayim to some city in the negev where they won't be offended by normal life and where they cannot do any harm. ”
There is no legal or moral basis for the government of EY to be "deporting" chareidim to the negev because of these demonstrations.
40
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:34 PM Aryeh Kalisch Says:
The saddest thing about all this is that instead of demonstrating, we should have been hiding under the bed in utter shame.
BECAUSE WE BROUGHT THIS ON OURSELVES.
By not voting, for whatever reason, for the only frum candidate for mayor, we caused a well-meaning but totally-detached-from-Torah person to become mayor of the holy city of Jerusalem..
SHAME ON US.
HaShem should forgive us for the big aveiro of causing this election to go to Nir Barakat.
He is better than Olmert or Kollek but a Lupliansky or Porush he is , most certainly, not.
41
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:30 AM Babishka Says:
Utterly disgusting that someone should be mistreated in this horrible way.
42
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:05 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Thank you #30 & #31
No matter how wrong it is for this parking garage to be open on shabbat Kodesh in our beloved Ir HaKodesh. THIS WAS HORRIBLY WRONG!!!!
I don't care if this behavior wasn't as bad as the arabs, the Iranians or the Klingons!
We are supposed to be an Am Kodesh of B'nei Torah - A BEN TORAH WHO HAS YIRAT SHAMAYIM Does not spit and scream at an unarmed woman PERIOD.
Can we all agree on that?
Why are we defending a mob of people on a destructive path of Chillul HaShem???
Anyone who wants to Shamor et HaShabbat
- by preventing another Jew from desecrating it -
PAY ATTENTION
- this is NOT the way to do it.
This is NOT L'Shem Shamayim. It is perverted piety.
I wrote Ms. Barker a note asking her not to judge our Torah and our faith by these brutes claiming to practice and "defend" it.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/contact/feedback.htm
The three weeks are coming and I am deeply ashamed ”
she is not using a electronic thing and thus insulting their sensibities she was making them be mechallel shaboss when someone is making you do a averiah you get upset the most important thing in the world is not to do a aveirah no matter who will be insulted and by the way i doubt it was so bad if they were all spitting how come its not on any other news source some people here dont respect mitzvos enough
43
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:05 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Well, the reporter Anne Barker is an experienced 'journalist' and touted as a Middle East Correspondent. So why did she deliberately drive into a protest about driving in Jerusalem on Shabbat? Why did she deliberately use electronic equipment thereby publicly desecrating the Sabbath in the area Holiest to Judaism, ie the old City of Jersualem where the Holy Temples of Judaism stood and where Judaim's holiest sacred site, the Western Wall, now stands? She must have deliberately sought to offend the local indigenous population of Jews and thus in many respects she got what she deserved! Or is she trying to plead ignorance?. Well in that case one needs to question her professionalism and commitment to the Job for not doing the most basic of background googling and research into the local customs of the area in which she is reporting. One would hope that if Anner Barker were sent to any area of the World she would bother to research local indigenous customs and endeavour to be culturally sensitive. I imagine that if she was sent to Papua New Guinea or, indeed, Australian Aboriginal sacred sites she would endeavour to enquiry about local customs and may modest efforts not to cause offense. As they say when in Rome do as the Romans do. When in Jerusalem do as the Jews do! As an Australian Taxpaper I do not approve of unqualified culturally insensitive individuals working for the publicly funded Australian Broadcast company being placed in areas in which they can cause offense and in which that offense could rebound and tarnish Australia's own image abroad!
As for the "irony" of the reporter's equipment, itself, failing to function on the Sabbath, I suggest that may well have been due to Divine Intervention! ”
She's not Jewish! She has no obligation to be shomer shabbat. There is nothing wrong with her driving on shabbat.
44
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:53 PM kingsley the chochem Says:
President Bush Sr (of the USA) was asked by the Saudis to celebrate Thangsgiving
dinner (not a religous holiday) on the Carriers and NOT in Saudi Arabia due to religous reasons. No Christmas meals were allowed in most Arab Moslem countries for American soldiers protectinfg them or prayers more than 60 seconds. Mrs. Clinton had her hair covered for these countries.
Mea Shearim has certain requests which Ms. Barker chose to disregard. I do not condone the spitting attack. But it is rather pathetic with all the violence in Israel and
the Thousands attacks on Sderot civillians she was only "MOVED TO TEARS"!! for spit. She has equalized in her reporting the tragedy of Shabbos protestors to Palestinian terror which never brought her to "tears" like the continued settlements which also "brought her to tears." Check out her MO guys!!! regardless of us all disagreeing with the vicious and deadly Spit Attacks like the Sderot victims!.
45
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:57 AM Dovid's Friend Says:
I don't believe it.
46
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:55 AM Anonymous Says:
1 ) tell her they thought she was a Shabbos desecrator 2) unfortunately historically all progress re: Shabbos came from such protests. , as the secular do not have a respest for that which is holy. 3) could all this have been avoided if the Gerer Rebbe had supported a Chareidi candidate?
47
Jul 06, 2009 at 01:00 AM Anonymous Says:
Let us not lose focus here. It is irrelevent whether she is misrepresenting or being biased. What is important and shameful is our behavior. We should epitomize the essence of being eirleche yiden, portray the kindness, sensibility and yes even passion. But it is inconceivable that we act or condone such immoral behavior and chas vashulem to compare us to" those" babaric muslims.
48
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:38 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Enough is enough .this is a major chillul .don't give me your bull that it's fir sake if shabbos , just daven , enough it's insane .no wonder why the world hates us . ”
you speak like the tzionim which are compared to the nazis. I don't believe this woman one word. she's probably anti-semit like.... Think of what your talking.
49
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:53 PM truth seeker Says:
While I personally feel this reporter ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time, I don't feel like all the bloggers here who won't be dan l'caf zecus their fellow Jews. Maybe you should take a step back and look at it from their perspective -they saw a Jew being mechallel Shabbos- they saw a Jew who knew they were protesting against driving cars on Shabbos even if the Jew didn't ever know what Shabbos means, driving her car. They were totally disgusted at this Jew's behavior and therefore spit at her. The blame that this situation occurred lies soley with the reporter's news agency. The agency could have researched the background around this story and advised their reporter how to act appropiately in order to protect her from any attack due to misunderstandings. The fact that she wasn't a Yid couldn't possibly be known by the protestors and the news agency should have realized this. I'm sure the protestors don't attack goyim if they know that they are goyim. Stop the sinas chinum, if someone enters a lion cage- they are going to get eaten. It's not the fault of the lion, but the fault of the person entering. In this case, the person entered unknowingly, so it's the fault of the person who unlocked the cage, namely the news agency!
50
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:39 PM kingsley the Chuchem Says:
I saw this article this afternoon in Australia'a news . I do not agree with the violence in these protests but believe it should be put to a special municipal vote with no money collections. I am also not Chareidi.
ABC news has long had anti Semitic reporting and Ms. Barker's introductory comments seem quite disturbing. She describes a non violent (which this demonstration was this weekend) demonstration for the preservance of the status quo agreed to and the sanctity of the Sabbath as follows: "BUT I HAVE TO ADMIT-NO PROTEST-INDEED 'NO STORY IN MY CAREER'!!!!HAS DISTRESSED ME IN THE WAY I WAS DISTRESSED AT A PROTEST IN JERUSALEM ON SATURDAY!" NOT IRAN OR THE LEFTISTS VIOLENCE AGAINST THE FENCE ??? AND WHAT WAS THE VIOLENT METHOD-SPIT-!!
Spit and live ammunition of SPIT! CHAREIDIM DO NOT LIKE PICTURES EVEN AT THEIR OWN WEDDINGS> Ms. BARKERS above words shows her typical underlying hatred to religous jews and her lack of respect for their customs. I don't even appreciate the protests but her veiled anti-orthodox resentment is quite clear . Read the above words again.!! A goy bleibt a Goy regardless of the inappropriate violence of Spitting!!! She would be in jailin Iran just for reporting .
51
Jul 06, 2009 at 04:03 AM Anonymous Says:
Goy she-shavas chayav meesa! This woman was within her rights by OUR halachic standards, she clearly may drive and record on our Shabbos. I am not aware of any sources that encourage or permit this abrogation of kovod habrios; could any of our Chassidic cousins tell us who allowed this horrible and primitive behavior - was it the Baal Sem? your Rebbe? We are all proud of your courage and ehrlichkeit.... hakol le- shem shamayim!
52
Jul 06, 2009 at 01:49 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I saw this article this afternoon in Australia'a news . I do not agree with the violence in these protests but believe it should be put to a special municipal vote with no money collections. I am also not Chareidi.
ABC news has long had anti Semitic reporting and Ms. Barker's introductory comments seem quite disturbing. She describes a non violent (which this demonstration was this weekend) demonstration for the preservance of the status quo agreed to and the sanctity of the Sabbath as follows: "BUT I HAVE TO ADMIT-NO PROTEST-INDEED 'NO STORY IN MY CAREER'!!!!HAS DISTRESSED ME IN THE WAY I WAS DISTRESSED AT A PROTEST IN JERUSALEM ON SATURDAY!" NOT IRAN OR THE LEFTISTS VIOLENCE AGAINST THE FENCE ??? AND WHAT WAS THE VIOLENT METHOD-SPIT-!!
Spit and live ammunition of SPIT! CHAREIDIM DO NOT LIKE PICTURES EVEN AT THEIR OWN WEDDINGS> Ms. BARKERS above words shows her typical underlying hatred to religous jews and her lack of respect for their customs. I don't even appreciate the protests but her veiled anti-orthodox resentment is quite clear . Read the above words again.!! A goy bleibt a Goy regardless of the inappropriate violence of Spitting!!! She would be in jailin Iran just for reporting . ”
ABC's views are not relevant. That frum yidden should behave in this way to another human being is disgusting. If this is what Rav Elyashiv and the Eida are promoting, then I really worry for the future of chareidi jewry. How sad.
53
Jul 06, 2009 at 01:30 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I saw this article this afternoon in Australia'a news . I do not agree with the violence in these protests but believe it should be put to a special municipal vote with no money collections. I am also not Chareidi.
ABC news has long had anti Semitic reporting and Ms. Barker's introductory comments seem quite disturbing. She describes a non violent (which this demonstration was this weekend) demonstration for the preservance of the status quo agreed to and the sanctity of the Sabbath as follows: "BUT I HAVE TO ADMIT-NO PROTEST-INDEED 'NO STORY IN MY CAREER'!!!!HAS DISTRESSED ME IN THE WAY I WAS DISTRESSED AT A PROTEST IN JERUSALEM ON SATURDAY!" NOT IRAN OR THE LEFTISTS VIOLENCE AGAINST THE FENCE ??? AND WHAT WAS THE VIOLENT METHOD-SPIT-!!
Spit and live ammunition of SPIT! CHAREIDIM DO NOT LIKE PICTURES EVEN AT THEIR OWN WEDDINGS> Ms. BARKERS above words shows her typical underlying hatred to religous jews and her lack of respect for their customs. I don't even appreciate the protests but her veiled anti-orthodox resentment is quite clear . Read the above words again.!! A goy bleibt a Goy regardless of the inappropriate violence of Spitting!!! She would be in jailin Iran just for reporting . ”
exactly every friday in nailin the arabs throw rocks wich can kill st the police about a wall not even something like shabbos and it doesnt distress her
54
Jul 06, 2009 at 05:17 AM hil Says:
wat a chillul hashem. where r the rabbis of our generation?!?!?!
we have no chance of getting this car park shut if we behave in such a disgusting manner? shame on us!!!!!
55
Jul 06, 2009 at 04:50 AM Anonymous Says:
she was misled by other self hating charedim like many commenters above and told to come see the primitive hatefull charedim demonstrate she covered it with a pre conceived opinion of hate for charedim fed to her by ppl such as many commenters above.she showed no sensitivity at all if anything did evreything to provoke the protestors .
Hafganos have been going on for the last 50 years for the desecration of shabbos in jerusalem, never did any reporter covering it have the same account as mrs. Barker I wonder why?
who sent her to cover it?
she made sure to instigate and create a non story as she had an oppurtunity to write a hatefull antisemetic article.
56
Jul 06, 2009 at 04:39 AM simon Says:
there was no dodgy flash card, just a dodgy reporter coming up with a dodgy story, (reporters always have best equipment) does anyone belive this story.
57
Jul 06, 2009 at 05:43 AM Simple Yid Says:
Most of the posters here on VIN recognize what a horror and disgrace these demonstrations are, how they show the rot and emptiness and ignorance in the heart of the chareidi community in Israel. Yet, unfortunately, that won't stop the next "demonstration." The only thing that will stop it is when Chareidi leadership tries to stop it. It has gotten worse and worse over the years and the sad fact is that these demonstrations drive Jews away from Torah, frei Jew, frum Jews, modern Orthodox Jews, Chareidi Jews, are all driven AWAY by this type of behvior. It is truly a Chillul Hashem.
58
Jul 06, 2009 at 06:40 AM Common Sense Says:
I cannot accept these animals in streimmels as part of the Jewish people. They have their own religion now--and it is not Judaism. Yiddishkeit reperesents love for G-d, Torah, our fellow Yidden, and all the peoples of the world. These aniumals and their so-called gedolim have shown themselves to be devoid of love, humanity and compassion of any kind. They are not Jews!
59
Jul 06, 2009 at 06:34 AM Anonymous Says:
When I read stories like these, I am relieved the seculars are in power. I don't think chareidim are ready for the geula.
60
Jul 06, 2009 at 07:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ It is called Shabbos kodesh because it is Holy and NO one can desecrate it. Her job as a journalist is to take risk and she is strictly supposed to report and not take ANYTHING personal. Regardless of the rioters attititude , comments or point of views. This is NOT about charedim or Shabos Kodesh. This reporter is a fake and her dignity has been touched. Poor little girl she is NOT a reporter!! She is a Fake!! Now as for the charedim, shame on all of you saying anything so aweful about other yidden! Shabos kodesh an d yerushalayim need to be protected and defended. We are yidden who need to support each other!! Forget the fake!! ”
One has to wonder have any of these violent protests accomplished anything? violence only breeds more violence. Hate only breeds more hate. It only breeds more. We greatly lack Ahavas Yisroel for each other. How wonderful it would be if the Gedolei Yisroel would teach their followers how to be mekarev other Yidden-the way Aharon Hakohen did. if this were done there would be much less Chilul Shabbos and greater Ahavas Yisroel.
61
Jul 06, 2009 at 07:33 AM tzoorba Says:
This lady's actions was like waving a red flag at an angry bull even though she may not have intended that.
She went into the middle of a group of people who segregate the sexes (which she must have known unless she were willfully ignorant and/or blind) and was flagrantly flaunting her violation of Shabbos.
They didn't know that she was not Jewish. They thought she was a non Orthodox Israeli purposely instigating trouble shoving it in their face.
She was lucky that spit was the only response.
If she had tried something similar at a Muslim modesty protest or carried a marriage for heterosexuals sign into the middle of a gay protest against proposition 8, she would have been beaten to death within a few seconds.
62
Jul 06, 2009 at 07:31 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Well, the reporter Anne Barker is an experienced 'journalist' and touted as a Middle East Correspondent. So why did she deliberately drive into a protest about driving in Jerusalem on Shabbat? Why did she deliberately use electronic equipment thereby publicly desecrating the Sabbath in the area Holiest to Judaism, ie the old City of Jersualem where the Holy Temples of Judaism stood and where Judaim's holiest sacred site, the Western Wall, now stands? She must have deliberately sought to offend the local indigenous population of Jews and thus in many respects she got what she deserved! Or is she trying to plead ignorance?. Well in that case one needs to question her professionalism and commitment to the Job for not doing the most basic of background googling and research into the local customs of the area in which she is reporting. One would hope that if Anner Barker were sent to any area of the World she would bother to research local indigenous customs and endeavour to be culturally sensitive. I imagine that if she was sent to Papua New Guinea or, indeed, Australian Aboriginal sacred sites she would endeavour to enquiry about local customs and may modest efforts not to cause offense. As they say when in Rome do as the Romans do. When in Jerusalem do as the Jews do! As an Australian Taxpaper I do not approve of unqualified culturally insensitive individuals working for the publicly funded Australian Broadcast company being placed in areas in which they can cause offense and in which that offense could rebound and tarnish Australia's own image abroad!
As for the "irony" of the reporter's equipment, itself, failing to function on the Sabbath, I suggest that may well have been due to Divine Intervention! ”
For her to be any of the things you mentioned, she'd have to be Jewish. She has plenty of right to drive where she wants on shabbos. Should we stone the Arabs for driving on shabbos too? Being Mechalel shabbos cannot be offensive if the person is not bound by shabbos in the first place! This is just further demonstrating the pointless insanity of these riots.
The true offense are the charedim becoming mechalel shabbos and violating all their customs and basic torah laws of how a person should act for "Lshem shabbos". Hypocrisy without end.
63
Jul 06, 2009 at 07:52 AM Anonymous Says:
“ When I read stories like these, I am relieved the seculars are in power. I don't think chareidim are ready for the geula. ”
Don't ever speak this way about your people. Hashem does not appreciate it.
Zei Shtil!
64
Jul 06, 2009 at 07:48 AM Anonymous Says:
“ It could be partially true and I feel sorry for her if it is, but the fact that her recorder has nothing to show is quite suspicious. ”
“It could be partially true and I feel sorry for her if it is, but the fact that her recorder has nothing to show is quite suspicious.”
I agree! I might have believed her up until that point. Now I think she's just lying to promote her journalistic career. Shame on her!
65
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:04 AM Anonymous Says:
1. I believe this is highly exaggerated. One can clearly discern anti-semitic undertones in her words.
2. They thought she was jewish blatantly desecrating shabbos in front of them, how should they know she is not. An amora tore off the untznius dress of a woman whom he thought was jewish, and she turned out not to be. When the Yidden saw a tzidoki kohen godol pour nisuch hamayim on his feet they immediately all hurled their esrogim at him in anger of this blatant chilul Hashem (and 2nd generation tzdokim were as much tinok shenishbe as chilonim nowadays). Did this make him frum? No, but when es tut vei shreit men, people who this wouldn't affect their emotions it is bec they are lacking in pain for kovod hashchina.
66
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:01 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I saw this article this afternoon in Australia'a news . I do not agree with the violence in these protests but believe it should be put to a special municipal vote with no money collections. I am also not Chareidi.
ABC news has long had anti Semitic reporting and Ms. Barker's introductory comments seem quite disturbing. She describes a non violent (which this demonstration was this weekend) demonstration for the preservance of the status quo agreed to and the sanctity of the Sabbath as follows: "BUT I HAVE TO ADMIT-NO PROTEST-INDEED 'NO STORY IN MY CAREER'!!!!HAS DISTRESSED ME IN THE WAY I WAS DISTRESSED AT A PROTEST IN JERUSALEM ON SATURDAY!" NOT IRAN OR THE LEFTISTS VIOLENCE AGAINST THE FENCE ??? AND WHAT WAS THE VIOLENT METHOD-SPIT-!!
Spit and live ammunition of SPIT! CHAREIDIM DO NOT LIKE PICTURES EVEN AT THEIR OWN WEDDINGS> Ms. BARKERS above words shows her typical underlying hatred to religous jews and her lack of respect for their customs. I don't even appreciate the protests but her veiled anti-orthodox resentment is quite clear . Read the above words again.!! A goy bleibt a Goy regardless of the inappropriate violence of Spitting!!! She would be in jailin Iran just for reporting . ”
Kingsley the frier:
These are public streets, and this woman (who's not Jewish) had every right to cover the demonstration by these idiots, and she had every right to do so even if she were Jewish herself.
Rather than blame ABC News for being "anti-Semitic," the behavior exhibited by these "frum" imbeciles would make anti-Semites out of Golda Meir and Ben-Gurion.
67
Jul 06, 2009 at 07:58 AM Anonymous Says:
I will sooner be Dan Lkaf Zchus my fellow Jew than a reporter from Australia. Before we believe one iota of her article, let's remember the news article last week about the Chasidishe police officer Witriol. Only one day later was it revealed that the woman who accused him was an anti semitic nut.
I don't trust the media at all. Look how they covered Isreal's defensive attack on Gaza.
What I am shocked at is the response of my fellow Jews towards observant Yidden in Eretz Yisroel. How are they judged so quickly? Don't they at the very least deserve to have a chance to tell their side of the story?
Until I hear it from a reliable source I will save my judgement and condemnation for the media. Experience has proven me right.
68
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:36 AM kingsley the Chuchem Says:
#66 addressing me as " Kingsley the frier" Getting personal is precisely the inability for people to read what this women or I wrote. Firstly, although they were respectful of religous Jews , both Golda Meir and Ben Gurion were socialists and basically anti-religous(see the various shabbos, anti netuchei meisim, demonatrations for years! yementite kidnappining of 50,000 children from their parents and sold "admitted by Barak in an apology") . I specifically wrote in all my msgs that I am totally against the protests and especially the conduct but also read her words and my other earlier msgs. I dealt with her comments which as a reporter showed her bias as Jennings of ABC .. It's a shame u choose to attack me the frier comment like Ms. Barker\ who also made it personal.
69
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:42 AM Ben Waxman Says:
We can give these the frummies the benefit of the doubt from now until the coming of the Messiah. That won't change the pictures, films, videos, and documented occurences of their violence. They do this stuff time and time again and other frum deny it. Then when the violence turns inwards (Ramat Beit Shemesh, Ponevesch, etc), suddenly people are "How did this happen, what a disgrace, blah blah blah". It is all one package, one story of a society that approves of and encourages violence to serve its preceived needs.
70
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:22 AM Anonymous Says:
“ When I read stories like these, I am relieved the seculars are in power. I don't think chareidim are ready for the geula. ”
does anyone here remember that just a few days ago there was a story with joel the hasidic cop and everybody jumped on him. but then boys and girls we found out that the woman who accused him was a lying antisemetic witch. what lesson did we learn from that boys and girls? we learned to keep our mouths shut instead of spewing vile hatred at fellow yiddin based on what some witch said. but your al abunch of anticharedi semites so when this woman who works for a news agency who wil do or say anything to get agood story even lie especialy if its about religious jews you all believe it without an ounce of proof.
71
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:22 AM Rabbi B Says:
Guys chill out!do you think that reb Eliyashuv or Gerer Rebbe are stupid? Ice been involved in askanus for many years, the gedolum are aware that things like this may happen, and still give us the go ahead!they believe, that the cause is well worth even if it may make a chulil hashem of the magnitude.
72
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:21 AM tired of the bull Says:
Enough!! its time for these guys to vote. Instead of making like the medina doesnt exist they should vote. they could have had a frum guy as the mayor and I doubt this would be an issue. The power of the vote is huge. You dont have to agree with the medina to vote. Its a mishigas that they dont vote. forget respecting the medina. On another note. If you dont respect the medina at all and wish that arabs should be in control, dont think that the medina owes you anything. some of these guys are traitors and chayav misa. Why because they validate the arabs by kissing up to people who kill jews. Enough is enough. Send them all to iran they love achmedinijab. Go live with him. The only way they will ever get people to respect shabbos is if they show what it says in the torah. "v'ahavta l'reiacha komocha" with love for non frum people and respect they will come back not through rocks,fires and dirty diapers.
73
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:20 AM kingsley the chuchem Says:
#45 #59 #58
Believe it my boy- check it out It is true! How is Dovid??? They even protested women soldiers driving and threw us out because of it as they threw out Asst sec of state representing SSOS Rice when she told women to fight for politcal rights at Riyah Universit. #58 #59 Your calling them "animals" because of a few shekotzim
in all camps and societies is really indicative of your hatefulness of Chareidim which I am not. The continuous false stories by various Left reporters and the Hateful instigation of the Labor toward religous Jews for 50 years is even worse by falsely instigating an entire society in hatered. While the acts of some chareidim is despicable , this protest was peaceful and was to protect their status quo and the Sabbath NOT ESPOSUE unwarranted hatred toward an entire society for 60 YEARS. tHAT HAS ALSO INSTIGATED cHAREIDIM TOWARD THE SECULARS AND THERE MUST BE DIALOUGE TO WORK OUT SINCERE COMPROMISES.
.
74
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:55 AM Anonymous Says:
why doesn't the Eidah vote in Municipal elections as the Satmarer Rebbe Z"L held and thereby control the city.
75
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:47 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I don't believe it. ”
Is it that you don't believe or that you CAN'T believe it...
76
Jul 06, 2009 at 10:06 AM Shmaryahu Says:
If you have any doubts, take a look at this article she just wrote, which mentions Amnesty International CLAIMS Israeli forces killed hundreds of unarmed Palestinian civilians, including 300 children, and destroyed thousands of homes in Gaza.
Yet she writes is as FACT in her headline:
Israel 'killed hundreds of civilians' in Gaza
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/02/2614769.htm?section=justin
77
Jul 06, 2009 at 09:54 AM Esther Says:
I think she knew exactly what she was getting into
78
Jul 06, 2009 at 09:41 AM Wish I Was There Says:
I couldn't agree more with #37 and #38.
She decided to take some chances, and hey if i get a good story out of it, im front page material!
Her tape recorder didnt work bec it would only prove that maybe two or three people screamed at her, and some spittle probably flew out in their rage-
Good Idea, get rid of the evidence.
And note to self...... next time i cover a sect or religion, i think it would be wise to do some research...... you moron
79
Jul 06, 2009 at 10:22 AM kingsley the chuchem Says:
To all u doubters !! read # 76 and go to the website he quotes and it is all about what I wrote. Not the protestors or "their despicable behavior"(also see my Rabbi Lau response) but her " tears" etc etc. etc. THIS SAYS IT ALL THKS #76 !
80
Jul 06, 2009 at 10:35 AM Anonymous Says:
theese idiots forget they are so religious that they make such a chilul hashem!!!!
whoa re they to police jerusalem!!! its a democracy!! can they now decide how others dress, that they eat mehadrin?
i rather have people drive on shabbos, many being a shiygeg, then having these people drive a different place bcause we made it harder to mark, and then we get the averah...
is it better people dont drive in jerusalem and end we make a buble, and in reality jsut as many people drive on shabbos...
if we clsoe our eyes and make non relsious people hate us and force them to keep shabbos...you think its going to help make more frum people? in fact less...
maybe these people should start inviting peoiple for shabbos and not asking them how they are getting to the shabbos table...
they are anti-zionist but they are the msot zionist since they forget we jews are still in galus since they think they have a full right to the land etc and feel they can offend all non jewish people since they have the power..
remember we are in galus.....lets act like a minority and behave like one even though in mea sharim we are the majortity!!!
81
Jul 06, 2009 at 11:11 AM Anonymous Says:
These beheimos who dress like frum Jews need to be punished where it hurts, in the pocketbook. Why are Rebbes from all kinds of anti-Zionist movements coming to my neighborhood which is not of that hashkafa to collect money and hold tishes. Are the people who donate aware of where the money goes?
Let us check out who these visitors are and what they stand for before we give money to their institutions.
82
Jul 06, 2009 at 11:09 AM Anonymous Says:
The spitting is the most ugly part of it. You have a right and the reporter would even undersatand if she gets shouted at to leave the area, that's all well, not so understandebele. But spitting on a reporter who does his or her job? Unbelieveble. Its not a hostile reporter in question here. These are a bunch of fruit of a bad upbringing, and this only serves as fodder for antisemites everywhere, and who can blame them? This is the reception you get over there.
83
Jul 06, 2009 at 10:54 AM Anonymous Says:
To all of you out there in cyberspace: I believe her story - the trouble with you is that you never give a person a chance. You all always ASSUME everything. It's lucky that it hasn't gotten you in trouble before. She was dressed modestly because she was in Jerusalem, out of respect, to all religions!! It does not take a brain surgeon to figure that much out!! She is NOT Jewish so she does not have to follow our laws!! Before starting to spit and yell, did ONE person ask her if she was Jewish?? NO!! That might have been the logical thing to do!! Instead, they behaved like ANIMALS!! Do you remember the 10 Commandments? Go through all of them together with the Rashi!!! Do not forget that Hashem wants us to learn how to deal Bain Adam L'Chaver'oh!!! If you cannot you are in trouble! I hope they prosecute these animals to the fullest extent of the law! This should never have happened. I hope VIN posts this
84
Jul 06, 2009 at 11:46 AM Anonymous Says:
“ “It could be partially true and I feel sorry for her if it is, but the fact that her recorder has nothing to show is quite suspicious.”
I agree! I might have believed her up until that point. Now I think she's just lying to promote her journalistic career. Shame on her! ”
I agree as well, I think she is a big antisemit and she a jew hater..you can see it from every word, she was probably exagerating and I am sure she was not wet..she did not even mention ONE word about the other side, the way the police were behaving..
We need moshiach and then the truth will come.
85
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:48 PM Anonymous Says:
To #84 How do you know that she is an anti-semite? Did you, personally, talk to her?? If not, do not make false accusations!!
86
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:40 PM Shua Says:
“ If you have any doubts, take a look at this article she just wrote, which mentions Amnesty International CLAIMS Israeli forces killed hundreds of unarmed Palestinian civilians, including 300 children, and destroyed thousands of homes in Gaza.
Yet she writes is as FACT in her headline:
Israel 'killed hundreds of civilians' in Gaza
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/02/2614769.htm?section=justin ”
Shmaryahu, you peeked my curiosity that you had actually found EVIDENCE that Ms. Barker is a biased reporter. So I checkout out your link. What I found out instead is that your accusation is the dishonest one.
Amnesty International (an organization which is pretty despicable in its own bias) came out with a pathetic report on Israel's actions in Gaza. News flash Shmaryahu: Ms. Barker did not write the report (as you try to make it seem). And contrary to your claim, she does NOT represent the headline accusation as "fact," but correctly puts it in quotes. What is a "fact" is that Ms. Barker NEVER gives her own opinion, but merely summarizes what was written in the AI report. Her article was certainly within the purview of her responsibility for reporting Middle East news.
All of the attempts on this thread to "blame the victim" are insulting to Torah and Yddishkeit. Is the Derech of the Torah to 'attack first and ask questions later?' Do the rioters not know that dozens of reporters from the international media are on hand and that most, like Ms. Barker, are not Jewish? There is no excuse ever for a Jew to behave like a behaima, let alone to do so while the whole world is watching.
I believe that Rabbis Horowitz and Hoffman got it right last week when they said that these "chareidi" thugs are doing nothing less than destroying Klal Yisrael, (Rachmana Litzlon). The only silver lining is that one of the two shitahs of Chazal regarding Moshiach is that he won't come until Klal Yisrael has sunk so low that only the geula can save us.
87
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:37 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ Don't ever speak this way about your people. Hashem does not appreciate it.
Zei Shtil! ”
Don't you presume to speak for HaShem!
88
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:32 PM Anonymous Says:
This is the worst protest she has ever been to?
What about the protest in Honduras the fighting in Somalia and all the fighting in Africa, do you really think this protest was worse?
I think that the fact that they were "ULTRA orthodox" protesters "wearing long coats and sable-fur hats" had an effect on it!!
Whats new an any semitic news report!
89
Jul 06, 2009 at 01:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To #84 How do you know that she is an anti-semite? Did you, personally, talk to her?? If not, do not make false accusations!! ”
and why then do you believe her accusations without any proof? i know, cuz your an anti charedi sinas chinom spewing turd bucket.
90
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:59 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To all of you out there in cyberspace: I believe her story - the trouble with you is that you never give a person a chance. You all always ASSUME everything. It's lucky that it hasn't gotten you in trouble before. She was dressed modestly because she was in Jerusalem, out of respect, to all religions!! It does not take a brain surgeon to figure that much out!! She is NOT Jewish so she does not have to follow our laws!! Before starting to spit and yell, did ONE person ask her if she was Jewish?? NO!! That might have been the logical thing to do!! Instead, they behaved like ANIMALS!! Do you remember the 10 Commandments? Go through all of them together with the Rashi!!! Do not forget that Hashem wants us to learn how to deal Bain Adam L'Chaver'oh!!! If you cannot you are in trouble! I hope they prosecute these animals to the fullest extent of the law! This should never have happened. I hope VIN posts this ”
and you are assuming that this actually happened. personaly id rather assume that 100s of yidden didnt do this as opposed to assuming what she is saying without a shred of proof. remember joel the chasideshe cop.
91
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:58 PM LONDONER Says:
What a coincidence this anti semitic liars memeory card faulty yeah right!!!!
she fabricated the whole story!!!!!11
92
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:18 PM phonon Says:
#76 -- Reporters don't write the headlines, editors do (usually).
93
Jul 06, 2009 at 01:25 PM Shua Says:
“ and why then do you believe her accusations without any proof? i know, cuz your an anti charedi sinas chinom spewing turd bucket. ”
>"cuz your an anti charedi sinas chinom spewing turd bucket.”
>>These are the words of a yirei Shamayim? I think not. You may be "anonymous" on this thread, but before the Bais Din Shel Ma'alah you are NOT "anonymous." When the accusing malach repeats the above quote that you wrote before the Ribbono Shel Olam...I wonder what defense you will possibly come up with.
94
Jul 06, 2009 at 01:24 PM Anonymous Says:
she went there to write a story about how bad jews are. here is a quote from her: Israeli police in their flak jackets and helmets, with rifles and shields, were yelling just as loudly back at the protesting crowd.
For once I found them something of a reassurance against the angry, spitting mob.
what does she mean that "for once i found them something of a reassurance" dies she had israeli police? maybe she hates all of us?
95
Jul 06, 2009 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:
“ >"cuz your an anti charedi sinas chinom spewing turd bucket.”
>>These are the words of a yirei Shamayim? I think not. You may be "anonymous" on this thread, but before the Bais Din Shel Ma'alah you are NOT "anonymous." When the accusing malach repeats the above quote that you wrote before the Ribbono Shel Olam...I wonder what defense you will possibly come up with. ”
possibly he'll say "thank you for taking a stand against those who are motzei shem ra on hundreds of yidden based on what some reporter said without any proof"
96
Jul 06, 2009 at 01:56 PM Anonymous Says:
“ >"cuz your an anti charedi sinas chinom spewing turd bucket.”
>>These are the words of a yirei Shamayim? I think not. You may be "anonymous" on this thread, but before the Bais Din Shel Ma'alah you are NOT "anonymous." When the accusing malach repeats the above quote that you wrote before the Ribbono Shel Olam...I wonder what defense you will possibly come up with. ”
i never claimed to be a yarei shomayim because unfortunatly i am not (working on it though so thanks for the mussar.) and unfortunatly harsh words are sometimes needed to make a point.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 03:26 PM Anonymous Says:
“ >"cuz your an anti charedi sinas chinom spewing turd bucket.”
>>These are the words of a yirei Shamayim? I think not. You may be "anonymous" on this thread, but before the Bais Din Shel Ma'alah you are NOT "anonymous." When the accusing malach repeats the above quote that you wrote before the Ribbono Shel Olam...I wonder what defense you will possibly come up with. ”
i'll say its worth going to gehenom to stick up for other yidden against those who defame attack and accuse them based on something some reporter said without any proof. and unfortunatly harsh words are sometimes necesary. so crank up the heat and i'll jump in! and while them there enjoying the warm fire ill see all of those that where motzei shem ra screaming and tell avrohom avinu to pul them out cuz in the end they are also heilge yidden
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Jul 06, 2009 at 02:46 PM Anonymous Says:
It is ironic, but the internet is actually helping the klal. Years ago, when this type of crazy riot behavior happened, people didn't know about it, and certainly couldn't voice an opinion on it that would be heard. Today because of the internet, this ugly behavior can be seen by the entire world instantaneously, and those objecting to it can make their voices heard loud and clear. The massive objection by the frum klal to this chilul hashem will get back to the leaders of these groups.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 03:28 PM Rippin Pinchas Says:
“ Enough!! its time for these guys to vote. Instead of making like the medina doesnt exist they should vote. they could have had a frum guy as the mayor and I doubt this would be an issue. The power of the vote is huge. You dont have to agree with the medina to vote. Its a mishigas that they dont vote. forget respecting the medina. On another note. If you dont respect the medina at all and wish that arabs should be in control, dont think that the medina owes you anything. some of these guys are traitors and chayav misa. Why because they validate the arabs by kissing up to people who kill jews. Enough is enough. Send them all to iran they love achmedinijab. Go live with him. The only way they will ever get people to respect shabbos is if they show what it says in the torah. "v'ahavta l'reiacha komocha" with love for non frum people and respect they will come back not through rocks,fires and dirty diapers. ”
I find it interesting that your ilk will criticize some people's unruly actions, yet it comes to issues you consider important you defend them no matter what. Go back to Amona, where your ilk fought with the Israeli police, sending 83 policemen to the hospital. Your ilk found no "sympathy" for the police and defended the actions of an unruly crowd because they, in some convoluted way, "love Eretz Yisrael." All the while your ilk criticizes some unruly people because they "love Shabbos." Typical modern orthodox Zionist mantra.
" Its a mishigas that they don't vote"
Just because you are an am ha'aretz and do not know things does not mean they do not exist. Writing comments like that demonstrate how uninformed you are.
"The only way they will ever get people to respect shabbos is if they show what it says in the torah. 'v'ahavta l'reiacha komocha'"
Why should this apply to other people and not yourself? Go look in the mirror first.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 02:23 PM Shua Says:
“ i never claimed to be a yarei shomayim because unfortunatly i am not (working on it though so thanks for the mussar.) and unfortunatly harsh words are sometimes needed to make a point. ”
> "...unfortunately harsh words are sometimes needed to make a point."
>>I agree. Sometimes "harsh" words are necessary. On rare occasions -- when they perceived the absolute necessity for it -- our gedolim used harsh language... but their intent was always L'Shem Shamayim. I think you understood my point that there is a difference between "harsh" words and "lewd" words. I thank you for that understanding and appreciate your response. In these troubled times -- when Klal Yisrael is experiencing so many yissurim -- we all need to be working on our yiras Shamayim and doing teshuva. All the best to you.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 04:16 PM Anonymous Says:
To #89
Your vile names are too bad to deserve a response on the internet. You accuse me of being anti charedi when I am probably more chassidic than you.
As to why do believe her, because the animals who attacked her did so without even asking her if she was Jewish.
That is their crime. TRUTH ALWAYS PREVAILS!
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Jul 06, 2009 at 04:48 PM Anonymous Says:
Her story gave me an idea.In order to stop these hooligans from further commiting a chillul Hashem, the Israeli police should have motion detectors and electric eyes that set off big lights wherever the charedim demonstrate. At least then these people won't be able to protest on Shabbos.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 04:09 PM Anonymous Says:
So what if it was an anti-semit who reported it?
Who is going to point out when you mess up, your friends or your enemies?
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Jul 06, 2009 at 05:17 PM seen it all Says:
Any half witted reporter knows you don't want to be the story, you want to report it. Therefore u avoid doing anything that causes you to stand out. A little research would have revealed that you don't pull out a recorder with orthodox Jews on Shabbos. A little more respect on her side would have avoided it. On the other hand, spitting is disgusting and someone using their mouth to diplomatically explain rather than spit like a baby would have avoided a chillul Hashem.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 05:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To #89
Your vile names are too bad to deserve a response on the internet. You accuse me of being anti charedi when I am probably more chassidic than you.
As to why do believe her, because the animals who attacked her did so without even asking her if she was Jewish.
That is their crime. TRUTH ALWAYS PREVAILS!
”
you belive her that they attacked her because they didint ask if she was jewish? im not sure i understand, why does that prove that she is telling the truth?
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Jul 06, 2009 at 06:25 PM Bulldog Says:
To #101 and #105:
Maybe I should go after both of you. You want to attack a defenseless woman, eh! Shame on both of you. Why should the women Ms Baxter lie. Like chasssic men like the both of you don't lie. You are both disgraces to Judaism and everything Jewish not to mention the human race. Maybe your business associates should know the way you both are and they should tell you both where to get off. Shame on both of you!
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Jul 06, 2009 at 06:18 PM Anonymous Says:
“ does anyone here remember that just a few days ago there was a story with joel the hasidic cop and everybody jumped on him. but then boys and girls we found out that the woman who accused him was a lying antisemetic witch. what lesson did we learn from that boys and girls? we learned to keep our mouths shut instead of spewing vile hatred at fellow yiddin based on what some witch said. but your al abunch of anticharedi semites so when this woman who works for a news agency who wil do or say anything to get agood story even lie especialy if its about religious jews you all believe it without an ounce of proof. ”
Sorry to remind you I did say at that time that I would always believe a first responder, when you get ready to vent, do not say everybody. Apology accepted.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 06:17 PM Anonymous Says:
To #105 She is telling the truth because the MOB did not give her a chance!! Please re-read your email and take spelling lessons!! You should be ashamed to have written something like that on the web. I hope that VIN posts this. Thank you.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 08:51 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To #105 She is telling the truth because the MOB did not give her a chance!! Please re-read your email and take spelling lessons!! You should be ashamed to have written something like that on the web. I hope that VIN posts this. Thank you. ”
im sorry but you sentences dont make sense. i have no idea what you are talking about. they didnt give her a chance is proof that they did it?
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Jul 06, 2009 at 08:48 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To #101 and #105:
Maybe I should go after both of you. You want to attack a defenseless woman, eh! Shame on both of you. Why should the women Ms Baxter lie. Like chasssic men like the both of you don't lie. You are both disgraces to Judaism and everything Jewish not to mention the human race. Maybe your business associates should know the way you both are and they should tell you both where to get off. Shame on both of you! ”
go after me for what? if i claim that you attacked me i have to prove it. let her prove it. i dont necesarily think shes lying i have no basis for that. your the disgrace to judaism for assuming that she is right because she is making clames against hasidic men whom you obviously dislike.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 08:40 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To #101 and #105:
Maybe I should go after both of you. You want to attack a defenseless woman, eh! Shame on both of you. Why should the women Ms Baxter lie. Like chasssic men like the both of you don't lie. You are both disgraces to Judaism and everything Jewish not to mention the human race. Maybe your business associates should know the way you both are and they should tell you both where to get off. Shame on both of you! ”
first of all i'm not chasidic so dont accuse me based on that. second of all i'm not sure in what way i attacked this woman. she made a claim with no proof about a bunch of yidden and i have no reason to believe her. i dont think it cant happen, but until its proven i would rather assume they are innocent. granted the same thing applies to her but shes the one making the accusations so she has to prove.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 09:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To #101 and #105:
Maybe I should go after both of you. You want to attack a defenseless woman, eh! Shame on both of you. Why should the women Ms Baxter lie. Like chasssic men like the both of you don't lie. You are both disgraces to Judaism and everything Jewish not to mention the human race. Maybe your business associates should know the way you both are and they should tell you both where to get off. Shame on both of you! ”
hi i'm #105. i didnt say shes lying nor did i attack her. she claimed that she was attacked, the burden of proof is on her. if i claim that you attacked me i have to prove it. but for you the fact that the claim is against chassidic men is enough because obviously they did it. oh and i'm not chasidic but i probably do lie. you're the disgrace.
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Jul 07, 2009 at 02:38 AM Observer Says:
“ Well, the reporter Anne Barker is an experienced 'journalist' and touted as a Middle East Correspondent. So why did she deliberately drive into a protest about driving in Jerusalem on Shabbat? Why did she deliberately use electronic equipment thereby publicly desecrating the Sabbath in the area Holiest to Judaism, ie the old City of Jersualem where the Holy Temples of Judaism stood and where Judaim's holiest sacred site, the Western Wall, now stands? She must have deliberately sought to offend the local indigenous population of Jews and thus in many respects she got what she deserved! Or is she trying to plead ignorance?. Well in that case one needs to question her professionalism and commitment to the Job for not doing the most basic of background googling and research into the local customs of the area in which she is reporting. One would hope that if Anner Barker were sent to any area of the World she would bother to research local indigenous customs and endeavour to be culturally sensitive. I imagine that if she was sent to Papua New Guinea or, indeed, Australian Aboriginal sacred sites she would endeavour to enquiry about local customs and may modest efforts not to cause offense. As they say when in Rome do as the Romans do. When in Jerusalem do as the Jews do! As an Australian Taxpaper I do not approve of unqualified culturally insensitive individuals working for the publicly funded Australian Broadcast company being placed in areas in which they can cause offense and in which that offense could rebound and tarnish Australia's own image abroad!
As for the "irony" of the reporter's equipment, itself, failing to function on the Sabbath, I suggest that may well have been due to Divine Intervention! ”
"the local indigenous population of Jews"
I loved that phrase. I have repeated it to myself dozens of times. Indigenous via eastern Europe! Hey are you an "indigenous Australian Jew"? It would have been ironically appropriate had you written "the local indigenous population of animals". C'mon, gimme a break; I hope you don't believe the stuff you wrote. I have met some rational Australians.
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Jul 07, 2009 at 12:12 AM Anonymous Says:
“ go after me for what? if i claim that you attacked me i have to prove it. let her prove it. i dont necesarily think shes lying i have no basis for that. your the disgrace to judaism for assuming that she is right because she is making clames against hasidic men whom you obviously dislike. ”
Why would she have to proof to “you" anything, this is not a court of law, the question at hand, the reporter wrote an article where she accused protesters at a minimum of bad behavior, or a mob scene, while drenching her in their spit, numerous people read her article and come away with the impression that the demonstrator are animals, and for no reason attacked this woman, that is the problem. What you and other bloggers claim on this site is totally inconsequential; all these none-Jews don’t give a second look at what you promulgate. This story is about a "Chillul Hashem". Don’t try to sell me the bridge to nowhere, or better known as “Chillul Shabbos” I and thousands of Jews hope and pray that it should stop all over not just in Israel, but you need to address the Chillul Hashem, these hooligans perpetrated in the name of Hashem.
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Jul 06, 2009 at 10:46 PM Anonymous Says:
even if only one person spit on her that is one too many. Luckily her tape recorder wasn't working because if it was she would had the recording translated and the garbage that would come out would be even a bigger chillul hashem.
How many police, reporters and soldiers were mechallel shabbos because of these demonstrations is never mentioned. Who is responsible for that?That should be part of the equation a parking lot for a hundred or chillul shabbos for hundreds.
116
Jul 07, 2009 at 07:25 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Why would she have to proof to “you" anything, this is not a court of law, the question at hand, the reporter wrote an article where she accused protesters at a minimum of bad behavior, or a mob scene, while drenching her in their spit, numerous people read her article and come away with the impression that the demonstrator are animals, and for no reason attacked this woman, that is the problem. What you and other bloggers claim on this site is totally inconsequential; all these none-Jews don’t give a second look at what you promulgate. This story is about a "Chillul Hashem". Don’t try to sell me the bridge to nowhere, or better known as “Chillul Shabbos” I and thousands of Jews hope and pray that it should stop all over not just in Israel, but you need to address the Chillul Hashem, these hooligans perpetrated in the name of Hashem. ”
ok so i say you attacked her and spit on her and i'll publicize it on the internet without any proof and say that you made a chillul hashem.
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Jul 07, 2009 at 07:56 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Why would she have to proof to “you" anything, this is not a court of law, the question at hand, the reporter wrote an article where she accused protesters at a minimum of bad behavior, or a mob scene, while drenching her in their spit, numerous people read her article and come away with the impression that the demonstrator are animals, and for no reason attacked this woman, that is the problem. What you and other bloggers claim on this site is totally inconsequential; all these none-Jews don’t give a second look at what you promulgate. This story is about a "Chillul Hashem". Don’t try to sell me the bridge to nowhere, or better known as “Chillul Shabbos” I and thousands of Jews hope and pray that it should stop all over not just in Israel, but you need to address the Chillul Hashem, these hooligans perpetrated in the name of Hashem. ”
you have no idea what a chillul hashem is. where the blood libels a chillul hashem because the goyim thought we killed children and used their blood? since eishas potiphar accused yosef of raping her it was a chillul hashem!? if there is no proof its just someone making an accusation if nonjews believe it it doesnt make it a chillul hashem. again im not saying shes lying but without proof it makes no difference. if i claim that you did something wrong its not a chillul hashem even if people believe it. its only a chillul hashem if they did it.
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Jul 07, 2009 at 08:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ ok so i say you attacked her and spit on her and i'll publicize it on the internet without any proof and say that you made a chillul hashem. ”
I like the fact that in a way you just admitted that you will make up a story as long it conforms with your story, as you said
“ok so i say you attacked her and spit on her and i'll publicize it on the internet without any proof and say that you made a chillul Hashem”.
Why should anybody believe you what you wrote on the internet, the internet is knowing as the “wild west of news reporting” anything goes, inasmuch as a news broadcast as ABC is more reputable them you on the internet. One more point if you just make up a story, that I stood on the corner and spitted on woman for whatever reason normal people would at least expect for you to show a picture of me standing on the corner and yelling at the women, but if there is no photo at all that I was least in the vicinity, people will know that you’re just making up the story.
119
Jul 07, 2009 at 08:33 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I like the fact that in a way you just admitted that you will make up a story as long it conforms with your story, as you said
“ok so i say you attacked her and spit on her and i'll publicize it on the internet without any proof and say that you made a chillul Hashem”.
Why should anybody believe you what you wrote on the internet, the internet is knowing as the “wild west of news reporting” anything goes, inasmuch as a news broadcast as ABC is more reputable them you on the internet. One more point if you just make up a story, that I stood on the corner and spitted on woman for whatever reason normal people would at least expect for you to show a picture of me standing on the corner and yelling at the women, but if there is no photo at all that I was least in the vicinity, people will know that you’re just making up the story.
”
i'm sorry my little brain cant comprehend what you are talking about. are you believing her without any proof or not?
120
Jul 07, 2009 at 09:23 AM Anonymous Says:
Lost in all this noise about whether it is a true story or not is the larger message, that whether this incident happened as reported or not, we in the frum world have a major problem on our hands.
Lets back up a second. If a reporter wrote that reb aharon kotler, reb moshe feinstein, rav heinken, rav hutner, reb ya'akov, rav gifter, rav ruderman, the satmar ruv, the bobover rebbe, the klausenberger rebbe, rav lazer waldenberg, rav shlomo zalman, rav shach, rav kahanamen, rav bruer, rav shwab, reb shmuel birnbaum, reb levi krupenia and rav yosef dov soloveitchek all sorrounded a woman for ANY reason and spit on her even ONCE not a single sane person would believe it.
If the report was made the closest talmidim of each one of these tzadikim again, sane people would not believe it.
In fact, I would dare say that if the report was made about a group of talmidim who had all learned under any one of these tzadikim for a few years only the enemies of all yiddin and the enemies of only frum yiddin would believe it, and most of them would know it wasn't true, even if they repeated the lie.
Why? Because we knew them, we know how they taught their followers to act, we know that they and their talmidim acting this way for ANY reason (excuse, really) would be as possible as a child being born a black male and dying fifty years later as a white female. (sorry, it was either that or a Mets and the penant metephor)
The fact that we have seen enough examples of unzerer acting in unbecoming ways and involved in actions inapproriate for ma’aminim b’nai ma’aminim that when we hear such a story many of us believe that the story is POSSIBLE should send shock waves thru the spines of all concerned (and level headed) frum yiddin.
For those who might not have noticed, the common denominator between all the gedolai yisrael listed at the start of this post is that THEY ALL LIVED IN OUR TIME. (Not that the list is at all complete.) They all lived and walked amongst US (I think I just gave away my age.) , this generation, here, in America or there in EY.
What happened to the derech avodas hashem, the very derech hachaim they taught simply by being here? How did we get in a few decades to the point where one cannot bet your LIFE on any ben yeshiva, on all b’nai torah, that this DID NOT HAPPEN?
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Jul 07, 2009 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:
To those comparing this to "Arabs" (I think you mean muslims), or to going into a mosque with your shoes on: no. You don't get it.
She is not Jewish. Islam says that such actions by non-Islamic persons must be prevented, so it's reasonable to be cautious. But this isn't about Islam. This is about Judaism, according to which non-Jewish persons are none of these people's business. If they want to come out and openly threaten nonbelievers for not obeying their rules, fair enough. Let them admit that they are attempting to force non-Jews into their religion, let them threaten others, and journalists will stay away and not "desecrate" anything out of fear of this insanity. But they will point out the hypocrisy and the violent tendencies should this happen, and will put these people on one level with the Islamic extremists in Iran.
Until you're ready to say openly that you want non-Jewish people to obey these rules -- contrary to Judaism -- don't say she had it coming when she was clearly right in not expecting to be judged by rules that do not and should not apply to her.
122
Jul 07, 2009 at 10:48 AM Anonymous Says:
“ i'm sorry my little brain cant comprehend what you are talking about. are you believing her without any proof or not? ”
Again go back to my original post # 110 I spelled it out, it is totally irrelevant what you or I believe, I wrote...
“Why would she have to proof to “you" anything, this is not a court of law, the question at hand, the reporter wrote an article where she accused protesters at a minimum of bad behavior, or a mob scene, while drenching her in their spit, numerous people read her article and come away with the impression that the demonstrator are animals, and for no reason attacked this woman, that is the problem. What you and other bloggers claim on this site is totally inconsequential; all these none-Jews don’t give a second look at what you promulgate. This story is about a "Chillul Hashem". Don’t try to sell me the bridge to nowhere, or better known as “Chillul Shabbos” I and thousands of Jews hope and pray that it should stop all over not just in Israel, but you need to address the Chillul Hashem, these hooligans perpetrated in the name of Hashem.”
Again if I put myself in a situation were if there are photos showing me with a long white bearded man with a clinch fist, and young man throwing rocks, and you claim that I spit on this woman then yes I just caused a Chillul Hashem and I need to evaluate my action, but in the mean time I was not there, so I did not cause "this", Chillul Hashem, however it seems to me that you condone it. In the mean time, there are numerous vitamins and food supplements that could boost your cognitive functions, see a dietitians and nutritionists
123
Jul 07, 2009 at 11:43 AM Anonymous Says:
“
Lost in all this noise about whether it is a true story or not is the larger message, that whether this incident happened as reported or not, we in the frum world have a major problem on our hands.
Lets back up a second. If a reporter wrote that reb aharon kotler, reb moshe feinstein, rav heinken, rav hutner, reb ya'akov, rav gifter, rav ruderman, the satmar ruv, the bobover rebbe, the klausenberger rebbe, rav lazer waldenberg, rav shlomo zalman, rav shach, rav kahanamen, rav bruer, rav shwab, reb shmuel birnbaum, reb levi krupenia and rav yosef dov soloveitchek all sorrounded a woman for ANY reason and spit on her even ONCE not a single sane person would believe it.
If the report was made the closest talmidim of each one of these tzadikim again, sane people would not believe it.
In fact, I would dare say that if the report was made about a group of talmidim who had all learned under any one of these tzadikim for a few years only the enemies of all yiddin and the enemies of only frum yiddin would believe it, and most of them would know it wasn't true, even if they repeated the lie.
Why? Because we knew them, we know how they taught their followers to act, we know that they and their talmidim acting this way for ANY reason (excuse, really) would be as possible as a child being born a black male and dying fifty years later as a white female. (sorry, it was either that or a Mets and the penant metephor)
The fact that we have seen enough examples of unzerer acting in unbecoming ways and involved in actions inapproriate for ma’aminim b’nai ma’aminim that when we hear such a story many of us believe that the story is POSSIBLE should send shock waves thru the spines of all concerned (and level headed) frum yiddin.
For those who might not have noticed, the common denominator between all the gedolai yisrael listed at the start of this post is that THEY ALL LIVED IN OUR TIME. (Not that the list is at all complete.) They all lived and walked amongst US (I think I just gave away my age.) , this generation, here, in America or there in EY.
What happened to the derech avodas hashem, the very derech hachaim they taught simply by being here? How did we get in a few decades to the point where one cannot bet your LIFE on any ben yeshiva, on all b’nai torah, that this DID NOT HAPPEN?
”
Because extremism is the rule of the day, I remember during the six day war a few hotheads decided to protests against Israel, and the Satmer Rebbe forbid us to participate and from that day going forward they were not allowed to come to Shuel and they aligned themselves with the Neturei Karta, so when you have extremisms that is what the outcome would be
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Jul 07, 2009 at 01:07 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Again go back to my original post # 110 I spelled it out, it is totally irrelevant what you or I believe, I wrote...
“Why would she have to proof to “you" anything, this is not a court of law, the question at hand, the reporter wrote an article where she accused protesters at a minimum of bad behavior, or a mob scene, while drenching her in their spit, numerous people read her article and come away with the impression that the demonstrator are animals, and for no reason attacked this woman, that is the problem. What you and other bloggers claim on this site is totally inconsequential; all these none-Jews don’t give a second look at what you promulgate. This story is about a "Chillul Hashem". Don’t try to sell me the bridge to nowhere, or better known as “Chillul Shabbos” I and thousands of Jews hope and pray that it should stop all over not just in Israel, but you need to address the Chillul Hashem, these hooligans perpetrated in the name of Hashem.”
Again if I put myself in a situation were if there are photos showing me with a long white bearded man with a clinch fist, and young man throwing rocks, and you claim that I spit on this woman then yes I just caused a Chillul Hashem and I need to evaluate my action, but in the mean time I was not there, so I did not cause "this", Chillul Hashem, however it seems to me that you condone it. In the mean time, there are numerous vitamins and food supplements that could boost your cognitive functions, see a dietitians and nutritionists ”
keep the insults coming they're good for me working on anava. i dont deny that there is a chillul hashem here. but that is limited to what actually happened. if it is a chillul hashem for someone with a long white beard to shake his fist at someone then there is proof that that happened so the fist shaking is a chillul hashem. if that officer in the picture accused the fist shaker of spitting at him or attacking him or breaking into his house and trashing it those accusations dont create a chillul hashem unless they are proven regardless of whether or not people believe it. because he was there and shook his fist means he spit also?! bad actions create a chillul hashem not accusations. and just because someone did one thing wrong doesnt mean he did other things as well. unless you have something inteligent to respond please dont, reading your posts hurts my brain.
125
Jul 07, 2009 at 03:37 PM Anonymous Says:
“ keep the insults coming they're good for me working on anava. i dont deny that there is a chillul hashem here. but that is limited to what actually happened. if it is a chillul hashem for someone with a long white beard to shake his fist at someone then there is proof that that happened so the fist shaking is a chillul hashem. if that officer in the picture accused the fist shaker of spitting at him or attacking him or breaking into his house and trashing it those accusations dont create a chillul hashem unless they are proven regardless of whether or not people believe it. because he was there and shook his fist means he spit also?! bad actions create a chillul hashem not accusations. and just because someone did one thing wrong doesnt mean he did other things as well. unless you have something inteligent to respond please dont, reading your posts hurts my brain. ”
Thank you for prompt respond. I went back and reread all my post and I couldn’t find any insults at anybody or especially you, the only passage you might be interpret as an insult “In the mean time, there are numerous vitamins and food supplements that could boost your cognitive functions, see a dietitians and nutritionists” sorry if you got insulted, I that was a direct respond to your post,
“i'm sorry my little brain cant comprehend what you are talking about”
I took it, as an indication that you have a problem concentrating so I wanted to help you out, with some fatherly advice, as to the rest, I feel like I am beating a death horse, we should agree to disagree.
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Jul 07, 2009 at 06:53 PM Nimrod Brown Says:
“ she is not using a electronic thing and thus insulting their sensibities she was making them be mechallel shaboss when someone is making you do a averiah you get upset the most important thing in the world is not to do a aveirah no matter who will be insulted and by the way i doubt it was so bad if they were all spitting how come its not on any other news source some people here dont respect mitzvos enough ”
If someone else records my voice on shabbos without my intention or knowledge, how can that be chillul shabbos. How many security cameras are installed all over jerusalem.
The spitting was not about chillul shabbos, it was about a woman walking into a group of men not dressed according to the "yidishe tochter" guidelines.