New York – At what age do we go gray, or better yet, when do we go white? This is not just a theoretical discussion; it has practical halachic significance. There is a mitzvah in the Torah to rise before an older person and to respect Torah scholars. The mitzvah (see Sefer HaChinuch #407) includes rising in their presence. The source for this mitzvah is in Vayikra (19:32), “Before a saivah you should rise, and you shall honor the face of an old man, and you shall fear your G-d; I am the L-rd.”
Subscribe to our Daily Roundup Email
The Hebrew word “saivah” has been translated as everything from gray-haired, to white-haired, to hoary-headed, to elderly and aged. Most people think that the term saivah applies to someone who has reached the age of seventy years. This is based upon the Rosh in Kiddushin (33a). The Rashbatz (in Magein Avos Kiddushin 5:21), however, cites a Targum Unkelus that the age is actually sixty years old. The Minchas Chinuch (#407) writes that one should, in fact, be stringent and rise for someone who is sixty years old. The AriZal in the Shaar HaMitzvos on parashas Kedoshim is also of the opinion that the correct age is sixty.
It is interesting to note that there is a correlation between the hair color and to whom the mitzvah applies. The hair color is a means by which we can tell whether the person is old. Indeed, the third Lubavitcher Rebbe (Responsa Tzemach Tzedek Yore Deah #93) forbids the shaving of the beard precisely for this reason because the mitzvah of rising before an older person would be negated, as we would be unable to tell who is old!
The mitzvah applies to all elderly people whether they are scholars or not. The matter was debated in the Talmud (Kiddushin 33a). The halachah was established in accordance with Issi Ben Yehudah who ruled that saivah includes all older people. The reason, presumably, is the life experience that the elderly person represents.
This mitzvah is an extremely important one, because whenever it is being fulfilled one fulfills another parallel mitzvah called vehalachta bidrachav—and you shall walk in His ways. The Talmud in Shabbos states that just as Hashem is merciful and kind so too must you be merciful and kind. The Jerusalem Talmud (Bikkurim 3:3) states that Hashem Himself honors the elderly. Since this is the case, we are walking in the ways of Hashem each time we perform this mitzvah.
There are numerous other questions about this mitzvah, however. What about an older woman? Does it apply during davening? Do elderly people have to rise for each other? Are there any exemptions?
As far as whether it applies to a woman, here is where we enter some controversy. The Sefer Chassidim (#578), which Ashkenazic Jews generally follow, writes that the obligation certainly does extend to an elderly woman as well. The Ben Ish Chai (parashas Ki Saitzei #16 in the second cycle), however, cites the AriZal that the mitzvah does not generally apply to an older woman unless her husband is a Torah scholar.
Does it apply between one elderly person and another? The Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh Deah siman 254) indicates that full standing does not apply, however they should honor and or acknowledge one another in some form. (See also response Michtam LeDovid #54.) It should also be noted that the Chayei Adam writes that the mitzvah applies to an elderly gentile as well.
As far as exemptions go, if one is in the employ of another and the rising will, even temporarily, affect his work for his employer, the halachah is that he should not rise for the older person.
Indeed, the mitzvah does not apply if there involves a loss of money in its performance (see Kiddushin 33a). Some poskim have ruled that on account of this, one is not obligated to give up one’s seat to an elderly gentleman on a bus, train, or subway, since having a seat is an item of value that one would pay at least a prutah for. They do write that it is a midas chassidus—a praiseworthy act. It would seem, however, that this may not be correct. Offering one’s seat perforce involves other acts which involve proper behavior that we are obliged to perform even when there is a monetary loss. Also, not giving up one’s seat is the antithesis of vehalachta bidrachav, aside from being a chillul Hashem.
What about during davening? The Birkei Yoseph (Y.D. 244) rules that one must stand up even during davening. The Talmud (Kiddushin 33b) does tell us that when one is holding a sefer Torah, however, the mitzvah does not apply, using the expression, “Does a sefer Torah stand before those that study it?”
What happens when you are not sure whether or not the elderly gentleman has reached the age of seventy? Rav Ovadiah Yoseph (Responsa Yabia Omer Yoreh Deah 3:13) rules that since it is a doubt in a Biblical mitzvah, the principle of safek de’oraisa lechumrah (we are stringent in regard to any doubt regarding a Torah mitzvah) comes into play and we assume that he is in fact seventy. Rabbi Yoseph rules, however, that for the stringency of rising for someone who is sixty years old we are not stringent when we are not sure.
One final thought. The Zohar in parashas Pinchas (page 227b) has a unique reading of this posuk in Vayikra: “Before the gray hair, arise.” Arise in doing teshuvah, repentance, before you reach the age of having gray hairs.
I wonder if the age of an older person is not changed today. The life expectancy in previous century wash with 40 years less than now. Every mitzvah have to make sans.
My father, who was VERY machmir on this matter, taught me:
Rise for ANY talmid chuchom even if he is only a year older than you
Rise for ANY old person, male or female, Jew or Gentile.
On this, he was machmir in this way. He said that a “partial rising” did not count if the older person could not see it. He said that if the person is looking at you and will see the clear partial rise, it is okay. But, if the person is not looking, you must stand entirely.
He also told me that if the person is for sure 70, or 60 plus a talmid chuchom (or wife of a talmid chuchom), or my Rebbe or Rosh Yeshiva, or someone to whom I have to certainly give extra kovod, then I must stand up all the way even if the person is looking right at me, and even if he makes with his hand to stay seated.
He also told me to not be careless with giving kovod to non-frum people or goyim, and that it was never my business to judge people negatively. So, no matter what negative thing I may know, or believe I know about someone, I must always both show kovod, and FEEL kovod for him/her.
My father would also get up for any person who was a rabbi of a shul, even if it was not the kind of shul we went to, and even if the rabbi was in his 20’s. He told me that if a minyan of Yidden hired this man as their rov, it means he deserves our giving him kovod!
His words were, “I don’t care if he is a 23-year-old rabbi who wears a 2-inch kippah seruga, if he is the rabbi of a shul, even the smallest shul, you stand up for him. A minyan of Yidden gave him the kovod of selecting him, and that is enough for us to need to respect him.”
Also, my father, A”H, was very firm about ALWAYS giving up a seat for an old person or a pregnant woman or anyone who appeared ill. He did so, even when he was in HIS 70’s.
I would stand up for a holocaust survivor even he was only 30 years old
A very interesting point for me, as I was prematurely gray. I started with a shock of gray hair in the front when I was 23, and by the time I was 36, I was totally gray. I’d feel strange because when I’d take my kids out people would say, “Isn’t it nice to go with zayde?” to them?
No Holocaust survivor is less than 65 years old.
Stop trying to develop a bright line test…there is none an these efforts to derive an age from talmud or chazal are really meaningless. Its a matter of common sense and midos. If someone physically appears in need of support, whateve his/her age, then get up and give them a seat. If someone who has acomplished much in daas torajh or maasim tovim ans warrants respect, than again, stand for him/her without regard to their age. Don’t try to make this a mechanical test. It depends on the circumstances.
The Imrei Emes of Ger Ztzl had a very apropos reading of this posuk. Mipnei saivoh tokum v’yoreiso m’elokecho, giving honor to elderly people will bring yiraas shomayim.
My husband came home one day very upset because people (Jews and non-Jews) were opening doors for him, offering him their place in line, offering him a seat, etc.
He said, can’t they see how young my face is, I have no lines!
I said, all they see is your white beard and your walking cane.
From reading these posts, except for #2 and another one or two, it appears that we want clear guidelines to make sure we do not, G-d forbid, trouble ourselves when there is no chiyuv. After all, who wants to stand up unless it is a chiyuv? It is a pain. Who is this other man that I should stand up for him? Just because he is 40 years older than I am? Just because he learned something? Silly, all of it.
So, just tell me exactly when I MUST stand up, so I don’t need to do it otherwise.
.”Don’t mix your middos toivois with Mitzvois D’Oiraysoh.”
With your warped vision of dass torah, if a cripple gets on the bus and I know he doesn’t fit the definition of a “60 year old seivah” because he is only 59 years old I would continue chatting away to my friends and not give him a seat. Hashem would expect you to get up and give him a seat whatever his age.
I always wondered if a 59 1/2 year old needs to stand for a regular (non talmid chachom) 60 year old.
Mipnei sayvoh has nothing to do with giving away your seat. There is a chiyuv to stand even when the person does not need a seat. The chiyuv is to honor the “sayvah” by standing in his presence. Do not mix issues.
“Indeed, the third Lubavitcher Rebbe (Responsa Tzemach Tzedek Yore Deah #93 ) forbids the shaving of the beard precisely for this reason because the mitzvah of rising before an older person would be negated, as we would be unable to tell who is old!”
I have just breezed through the first 5 pages of the tshuva, The Tzemamch Tzedek is concerned with the Issurei di’oireisa of ba’al tashchis (which according to some opinions would include things other than a razor if the result was the same and it is surely so di’rababan) Lo silbash, (just as the chinuch []and the Chofetz Chaim include lo silbash and and chukos ha’akum in the shaving of lo sashchiso pi’as zikaneche), The Chofetz Chaim also stated the REQUIREMENT of a yid to have a beard and payis in Zachor limiriyam, in nidchai yisroel, in sefer hamitzvos hakatzer (mentioned above), in Machaneh Yisroel, and he wrote a whole sefer on how important it is for a Yid to have a beard called Tiferes ha’odom, and along comes Rabbi Yair Hoffman selling modern orthodox propaganda and he writes the Tzemech Tzedek’s only problem with shaving was mipnai Saivah takum. I urge all VIN readers to reveiw the Tshuva inside so they can fully appreciate Rabbi Hoffman’s amharatzus.
Okay, forget the word “miracle”, how about an “anomality”?
I have my family tree going back to early 1700s. I did the same for my wifes family (in some branches). The normal age was nowhere around 60s… Much higher. I have access to many “pinchas buchs” of Hungarian jews going back to 1800s. Same resluts. What I’m saying is that today you have much higher chances to die on “natural” causes (i.e. not childbirth, not flu, not war). But those who die on natural causes don’t live that much longer then in previous centuries (yes, they DO live somehow longer, its not twice as much or anything close to it).