Vienna - Satmar Rabbi Instrumental in Successful Release Of Charedi From Austrian Jail |
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Mr. Strulovitz in te court room befroe he was set freeVienna - In a shocking twist, A prominent Charedi millionaire Chaim M. Strulovitz was released from jail yesterday after an Austrian judge granted the 61 year old Strulovitz a conditional sentence allowing him to walk free.
Strulovitz was arrested in the U.S. Lakewood, New Jersey in June 2008 for running afoul of the Austrian government, and was extradited back to Austria after being on the run for years, and was put on trial.
During the first three days of the trial at the district court in Vienna, Mr. Strulovitz refused to give evidence about the fraud charges dating back to the 90’s. Strulovitz is cited to have said: “According to my jewish religion, I am not allowed to give evidence against anyone else. This is very, very serious for us”
On the fourth day, he pleaded guilty, admitting that he was the head of a conglomerate of firms that defrauded some individuals.
In a mild verdict, which surprised even the best-informed court observers, he was condemned to ten months jail without probation plus twenty months with a probation period of three years. He was set free immediately, since he had already served the sentence in custody. The judged also fined him with $200,000.
The previously iron clad indictment would of seen Strulovitz face a ten year jail sentence.
The sentence was commuted to 30 months in jail of which 20 have been served and the rest served either in investigative detention or rendition.
Mr. Strulovitz a major supporter of Satmar institutions received emotional support from The Satmar rebbe, of Williamsburg Rabbi Zalman Leib Teitelbaum Shlita. Mr. Strulovitz was also a strong confidant of the previous Satmar Rebbe, Rabbi Moshe Teitelbauum Zt’l Author Of Beirach Mosha.
Rabbi Tetilbaum expended major efforts and explored different ways to release Strulovitz, including by hiring top lawyers. Nevertheless, everyone feared that the Strulovitz would be sentenced to may years in prison.
Several months ago, Rav Yaakov Ber Teitelbaum, the son of the rebbe and rav of the Sighet beis midrash in Boro Park, and the Horodenka rebbe from Manchester, flew over to assist in the court case.
With the assistance of the renown Williamsburg askan, Rav Moshe David Niederman, the rabbis met with the judge and explained that the Mr. Strulovitz had no intention to cause harm to the country and was deserving of clemency.
During one of the trial hearings, Rav Yaakov Ber surprised the prosecution when he gave a heartrending speech in favor of the defendant. The prosecution agreed to work out a plea bargain with the lawyers, in which he would pay a fine and sit in prison only one year.
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Read Comments (65) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:13 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Kol Hakovod! Reb Yakov Ber.
Pidyon Sevueim one of the biggest mitzvoes.
Chazak Vamotz.
2
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:20 AM E. Grossmann Says:Report as Inappropriate
"The sentence was commuted to 30 months in jail of which 20 have been served and the rest served either in investigative detention or rendition."
The other way round: 10 have been served and 20 are on probation.
He admitted to a total fraud sum of at least 3 Million euro, taken from at least 43 persons, mainly poor immigrants from south-east Europe who did not speak German well enough to notice.
3
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:18 AM Jew Says:Report as Inappropriate
Wonderful story! But I hope he will not go back to the no-no business. And for the rabbis: thank you very much for helping a fellow Yid to avoid years of prison.
4
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:14 AM Kogan Says:Report as Inappropriate
Boruch Hashem! A yid got out of trouble. I hope same efforts are done for Rubashkin.
5
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:41 AM satmarer Says:Report as Inappropriate
Thank u Satmar rabbi for ur great help! we know everytime a yid needs help there is one address: satmar rabbi (MhrZ"L) ready 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year to help a yid!!!!!!!!
6
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:34 AM cool masmid Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ "The sentence was commuted to 30 months in jail of which 20 have been served and the rest served either in investigative detention or rendition."
The other way round: 10 have been served and 20 are on probation.
He admitted to a total fraud sum of at least 3 Million euro, taken from at least 43 persons, mainly poor immigrants from south-east Europe who did not speak German well enough to notice. ”
How you are not afraid to go and speak Loshon Hora (maybe even worse) about another Jew TODAY on 17th Tammuz is beyond me.
7
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
would they help poor little old me if I was in trouble??
8
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Kudos to the Satmar Rabbi!
Even I don't agree with him on other issues, I sincerely admire him for his Mesiras nefesh in assisting our fellow jews with legal trouble.
To take his own son and send him off to vienna for a while ONLY to help a fellow yid is amazing!
9
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:30 AM Oy Gevald Says:Report as Inappropriate
Mazel Tov !!!
10
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:48 AM and what ?? Says:Report as Inappropriate
and what happends to the people that he defrauded
do we make a pidyon shevuyim for them ?
or are they the bad guys here
11
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:58 AM Logic613 Says:Report as Inappropriate
What the hell?????? Maybe if the rebbeim spent more time worrying about real issues and less time on springing admitted criminals out of prison, the world might be a better place.
12
Jul 09, 2009 at 10:55 AM Kiddish Hashem Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Kudos to the Satmar Rabbi!
Even I don't agree with him on other issues, I sincerely admire him for his Mesiras nefesh in assisting our fellow jews with legal trouble.
To take his own son and send him off to vienna for a while ONLY to help a fellow yid is amazing! ”
How come there is so little praise on this article right now. Normally when it is aobut bashing everyone comes round. However right now with all mesiras nefesh everyone is quiet so what. However what most of you don't know is that he meaning reb Zalman Leib is a big ball chesed with out a lot of fan fare and the many things he accomplishes are done quietly so as not to emberass others. This is for sure for I know quite a few such situations. His rebbetzin is especially active behind the scene with out searching for the praise. Thre for it is Baruch Hashem a real Kiddish Hashem.
13
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:18 AM Andrew Says:Report as Inappropriate
Did you miss the sentence: "Mr. Strulovitz [is] a major supporter of Satmar institutions..."
14
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:33 AM DerNister Says:Report as Inappropriate
Am I expected to believe that a sitting judge had ex parte conversations with third parties about a case curently before him? Anyone who believes that happened, please call me. I have some very prime real estate, a bridge across the East River and a certain skyscraper on 34th street, to sell at bargain basement prices.
15
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:33 AM not impressed Says:Report as Inappropriate
If the Rebbe was a real rebbe he would give Mr. Strulovirz back his "donations" and tel him , "Nem des gelt in geb es tzirik tzi di mentchen fin vemen di hust es geganvet"!!
16
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:28 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
#12- the problem is that you see mesiras nefesh only and not fraud. Why is it ok to defraud ANYBODY even the "government who is not a person". Why is it so commonplace today? Where is the busha? The money spent on going to Austria and helping the defense should have gone to feed people who are not making it. Go to BP at night and look at Masbia (the local soup kitchen). See how many erliche yidden need food. That's where money should be going, just saying.
17
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:24 AM help Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What the hell?????? Maybe if the rebbeim spent more time worrying about real issues and less time on springing admitted criminals out of prison, the world might be a better place. ”
Never satisfied if he wouldn't have done anything you would be complaining about why he isn't doing anything. If it chas vesholom anyone in your family you run as quick as you could for his help. Everybody has critique about the rebbas but everything good two lines it over and finished. Good things don't create exciting blogs now do they?
18
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:42 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
at least there is someone to turn to now that we lost rabbi glanz.
19
Jul 09, 2009 at 12:02 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ #12- the problem is that you see mesiras nefesh only and not fraud. Why is it ok to defraud ANYBODY even the "government who is not a person". Why is it so commonplace today? Where is the busha? The money spent on going to Austria and helping the defense should have gone to feed people who are not making it. Go to BP at night and look at Masbia (the local soup kitchen). See how many erliche yidden need food. That's where money should be going, just saying. ”
But the shulchan oruch states otherwise: ein lecho mitzva gedoila mipidyon shevuyim!
All the credit to Satmer rebbe and siget rav, you're a great kiddush hashem and sample of what rebbes have to do.
20
Jul 09, 2009 at 12:00 PM Asher Buchwalter Says:Report as Inappropriate
Nonsense this is not pidyon shevueim, keep your nose clean and you will not wind up in jail. I was born in Vienna Pidyon shevueim was carried out before the war by Reb Avruminu's sister. These chevra are now making shady business. There should not even be a Yid in Vienna
21
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:53 AM chaim36 Says:Report as Inappropriate
Truly amazing !!! Why NOT condem these fraudsters ?How many of us in the frum world have been victums of these guys ?Let them seve time in jail as a deterrent to others.
22
Jul 09, 2009 at 12:08 PM Meir Says:Report as Inappropriate
How about restitution?
23
Jul 09, 2009 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is the difference between the US goverment and European. The US goverment would ruin his life and make him spend the rest of his life behind bars as if he would have been a murderer or worse. He has a family, he's not a dope head. He may have been greedy, so is everybody including goverment. That's why you pay a fine do some time and get back on your feet. CM is a interesting character and society would benefit from having him on the outside more than when he is behind bars.
He was punished accordingly, he paid a fine plus what he owned and now he can get his life back together. The US goverment should learn and they would have a much finer society. Putting someone in jail for life has not proven to reduce crime and is just plain excessive. This is just plain inumane and tourture. Wonder what PMO's opinion is on this.
24
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:46 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Kudos to the Satmar Rabbi!
Even I don't agree with him on other issues, I sincerely admire him for his Mesiras nefesh in assisting our fellow jews with legal trouble.
To take his own son and send him off to vienna for a while ONLY to help a fellow yid is amazing! ”
My big questions is, would I be the receipiant of such extraordinary efforts if I were not a major contributor to the Mosed? I would llike to think I would be, however I will not need to find out since I will NEVER put myself in such a position!
25
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:44 AM yossi Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What the hell?????? Maybe if the rebbeim spent more time worrying about real issues and less time on springing admitted criminals out of prison, the world might be a better place. ”
I would wonder if you get ever indicted for a crime if your local rabbi would even make a phone call for u.?
26
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:44 AM Rachel Says:Report as Inappropriate
I hope mr struluovitz will do tshuvah now and not go back to his old ways . lo Signov is one of the 10 comandmants
27
Jul 09, 2009 at 12:30 PM Shmuel Says:Report as Inappropriate
i am personally happy for him..on the other hand what message do we send to our youth? if he wasnt a millionare would he be free now? i am troubled by this story.. i hope he uses his new found freedom to make ammends whatever those might happen to be...how would he feel if he was the victim of financial fraud ( a la madoff for example) ? God's ways are mysterious..
28
Jul 09, 2009 at 12:51 PM SFINA_NIES Says:Report as Inappropriate
Pidon Shviyom Is One Of Biggest Mitzvas, Doesn't Matter Who It Is And Why They Came To Help Him, As Long The Person Is Mzera Yisruel, Should Hashem Pay For Those Who Helpful For Yidisha Kinder M'kol Tiv V'tov !!!
29
Jul 09, 2009 at 12:42 PM Asher Buchwalter Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ If the Rebbe was a real rebbe he would give Mr. Strulovirz back his "donations" and tel him , "Nem des gelt in geb es tzirik tzi di mentchen fin vemen di hust es geganvet"!! ”
This would truly chasidis and emes but er vet is nisht tin
30
Jul 09, 2009 at 01:15 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Pidon Shviyom Is One Of Biggest Mitzvas, Doesn't Matter Who It Is And Why They Came To Help Him, As Long The Person Is Mzera Yisruel, Should Hashem Pay For Those Who Helpful For Yidisha Kinder M'kol Tiv V'tov !!! ”
Wrong! It does indeed matter who the parson is. If he would be a shlaper .... Would the rabbi send his son to Vienna!
31
Jul 09, 2009 at 01:12 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
R yakov ber is becomeing a world star for helping others. He is folwing his grandparntes to wake up in the morning and to look around how could I help a yid today , he is true and true his fahers the grand rabi son . Tizka lamtsvos
32
Jul 09, 2009 at 12:49 PM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is the difference between the US goverment and European. The US goverment would ruin his life and make him spend the rest of his life behind bars as if he would have been a murderer or worse. He has a family, he's not a dope head. He may have been greedy, so is everybody including goverment. That's why you pay a fine do some time and get back on your feet. CM is a interesting character and society would benefit from having him on the outside more than when he is behind bars.
He was punished accordingly, he paid a fine plus what he owned and now he can get his life back together. The US goverment should learn and they would have a much finer society. Putting someone in jail for life has not proven to reduce crime and is just plain excessive. This is just plain inumane and tourture. Wonder what PMO's opinion is on this. ”
Fool , Austrian Gestapo was instrumental in shoving million Jewish children in gas chamber. I came to this country in 1950 and liver comfortably and never was in jail or indicted . This is a wonderful country I guess you cannot make these stiklich. I hope the U.S. government never learns from these murderers. Keep your nose and be an erliche Yid and you have no problem in this country
33
Jul 09, 2009 at 01:24 PM ????????????? Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ #12- the problem is that you see mesiras nefesh only and not fraud. Why is it ok to defraud ANYBODY even the "government who is not a person". Why is it so commonplace today? Where is the busha? The money spent on going to Austria and helping the defense should have gone to feed people who are not making it. Go to BP at night and look at Masbia (the local soup kitchen). See how many erliche yidden need food. That's where money should be going, just saying. ”
How come we are so busy telling everybody what to do.? Again the Rebba does lots of this without fanfare. How do you Mr S won't give more of his money now to the poor?
34
Jul 09, 2009 at 01:27 PM ????????????? Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I would wonder if you get ever indicted for a crime if your local rabbi would even make a phone call for u.? ”
You bet he would?
35
Jul 09, 2009 at 02:36 PM Eli Says:Report as Inappropriate
Rabbi Yakov Ber ! Thank you so much ! you are the best !
36
Jul 09, 2009 at 02:29 PM Holy Hyrax Says:Report as Inappropriate
I am hearing a lot of applause for these rabbis for helping a fellow yid.
Does anyone at all care about the fact that this man committed such a crime? That he defrauded innocent people?
37
Jul 09, 2009 at 02:27 PM Misnaged Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ How come we are so busy telling everybody what to do.? Again the Rebba does lots of this without fanfare. How do you Mr S won't give more of his money now to the poor? ”
Fraud is ganeivah. If he gives stolen money to the poor his gain is outweighed by his loss. What he needs is to do do teshuva on his past aveiros and to be mecabel not to steal in the future. Clean money to tzedaka is a caparah. All the dirty money one gives to tzedaka vert gornisht helfen
38
Jul 09, 2009 at 02:14 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Fool , Austrian Gestapo was instrumental in shoving million Jewish children in gas chamber. I came to this country in 1950 and liver comfortably and never was in jail or indicted . This is a wonderful country I guess you cannot make these stiklich. I hope the U.S. government never learns from these murderers. Keep your nose and be an erliche Yid and you have no problem in this country ”
What does Austria under the Nazi's have anything to do with the fact the US has highest per capita people in jail than ANY other civilized country?
39
Jul 09, 2009 at 02:07 PM Anonymous Opinion Says:Report as Inappropriate
i dont think anyone says he is not guilty of what he did. this isnt the point here. when a yid sits in prison it is the obligation of every yid to help as much as possible to get him out. we all know that neither in europe, nor in the usa does a court equal justice, laws are twisted so much that no one really gets what he/she deserves. the only true Judge is the Ribbono Shel Olam. and He knows what to do about this case of fraud. He knows how much CMS deserves and how much not. none of us know.
i personaly know people who were involved in this case non-stop instrumenting the Satmar Rabbi shlita to send his son and for other to become involved. these people who wer behind it would have done the same for any yid in trouble because they have an endlesss amount of true ahavas yisroel in them.
to all the "holier-than-thous" out there: we are not in a gerenation to sit and judge others. i wish we were all judging ourselves HALF as harsh as we tend to judge strangers.
CMS gave to numerous mosdos all the years. satmar was one of MANY....
40
Jul 09, 2009 at 02:01 PM Attorney Says:Report as Inappropriate
There are many precedences in austria that religous jews or jews period where given minor sentences for crimes that in the US they would have gotten 5 to15 years. I was personaly involved in a couple of those cases . At the end of the day the court system in Austria is way fairer then the US justice system. And thats the main reason why nearlly 10% of the US population is behind bars half of them for minor infracttiors.
41
Jul 09, 2009 at 01:58 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Wrong! It does indeed matter who the parson is. If he would be a shlaper .... Would the rabbi send his son to Vienna! ”
u are right in certain point but we yidden are everywhere and parnassa iz from min hashomaim.btw iam to from vienna.
42
Jul 09, 2009 at 03:15 PM Straight Thinker Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is the difference between the US goverment and European. The US goverment would ruin his life and make him spend the rest of his life behind bars as if he would have been a murderer or worse. He has a family, he's not a dope head. He may have been greedy, so is everybody including goverment. That's why you pay a fine do some time and get back on your feet. CM is a interesting character and society would benefit from having him on the outside more than when he is behind bars.
He was punished accordingly, he paid a fine plus what he owned and now he can get his life back together. The US goverment should learn and they would have a much finer society. Putting someone in jail for life has not proven to reduce crime and is just plain excessive. This is just plain inumane and tourture. Wonder what PMO's opinion is on this. ”
The Point is that now we have another Yid out of Jail.
we also have to take into account that we are not the ones to judge him according to what he has done, since we dont know even the shallow details of his crimes..
and second, if one has committed a crime, he doesnt become clean by repaying, he has to get his required punnishment, thats the only way about it. should we stop giving punnishments, the streets will be full (or more full) with criminals..
43
Jul 09, 2009 at 03:35 PM Holy Hyrax Says:Report as Inappropriate
we all know that neither in europe, nor in the usa does a court equal justice, laws are twisted so much that no one really gets what he/she deserves.
What does this have to do with anything? So what is that supposed to mean? NOT to have court system because YOU think that things are twisted? Was it twisted here? Where is your evidence? Apparently, even though man is flawed, God STILL wants the nations to have system of laws. Where is the justice in him paying for his crimes and what he did to innocent people? So every time a yid commits crimes we should just bail him out? Would you welcome this yid in your community? Apparently, you should just not judge him right?
44
Jul 09, 2009 at 04:12 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Wrong! It does indeed matter who the parson is. If he would be a shlaper .... Would the rabbi send his son to Vienna! ”
Yes, indeed he would and does help many people who have absolutely no money. Ask the people in Yerushalayim who are sworn followers of Reb Zalman Leib - not because he was Rav there but because he cared for them all. He quietly raised money to marry them off; arranged medical help in the USA when needed etc., and all without fanfare.
You won't find his photo on the covers of magazines, but in his low-key way he is there for anybody calling on him.
By the way, Strulowitz might have donated money to Satmar a long time ago, but at this point he is not in a position to do so. That was never a factor in Reb ZL helping a Yid in need.
45
Jul 09, 2009 at 04:24 PM Anonymous thinker Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ we all know that neither in europe, nor in the usa does a court equal justice, laws are twisted so much that no one really gets what he/she deserves.
What does this have to do with anything? So what is that supposed to mean? NOT to have court system because YOU think that things are twisted? Was it twisted here? Where is your evidence? Apparently, even though man is flawed, God STILL wants the nations to have system of laws. Where is the justice in him paying for his crimes and what he did to innocent people? So every time a yid commits crimes we should just bail him out? Would you welcome this yid in your community? Apparently, you should just not judge him right? ”
who is talking about what is twisted where - its just a plain fact that justice is never fully served because lawyers always twist laws in ways that fits their purpose. how naive are you? how many murderours are walking around free and ppl who never commited a crime where killed on the electric chair? i am just saying that IF he deserves harsher punishment and didnt recieve it here then its up to Hashem to make sure what he gets and what not. not to us.
and of course this doesnt mean that i think ppl can do what they want - we have a Torah and should follow it. sadly we all fall through one crack or the other. like us here talking lashon horah on a man we dont even know and thinking we can ´play G-d!
46
Jul 09, 2009 at 04:56 PM What makes a Masmid cool? Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ There are many precedences in austria that religous jews or jews period where given minor sentences for crimes that in the US they would have gotten 5 to15 years. I was personaly involved in a couple of those cases . At the end of the day the court system in Austria is way fairer then the US justice system. And thats the main reason why nearlly 10% of the US population is behind bars half of them for minor infracttiors. ”
"nearly 10% of the US population is behind bars" from where did you get these figures? it means 30 Million are in prison, try to be better informed before you make
a public statement.
47
Jul 09, 2009 at 05:14 PM zahav18 Says:Report as Inappropriate
So if one day someone swindles me out of what my family needs, I would be more than a little broygez to see all the rachmones flowing to get the early release of the one who did it to us. Do all who applaud ask if he took away someone's ability to pay their rent, care for a sick child, heat a home?
48
Jul 09, 2009 at 05:02 PM shifra blum Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I hope mr struluovitz will do tshuvah now and not go back to his old ways . lo Signov is one of the 10 comandmants ”
No way for you to know, the "lo signov stated in the 10 comandments" refers to kidnapping [abduction of humans] do your homework.
to be mekabel lashon harah is ok?
49
Jul 09, 2009 at 06:02 PM bigwheeel Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ would they help poor little old me if I was in trouble?? ”
...How could they? You're anonymous...!!!
50
Jul 09, 2009 at 05:51 PM e. grossmann Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ No way for you to know, the "lo signov stated in the 10 comandments" refers to kidnapping [abduction of humans] do your homework.
to be mekabel lashon harah is ok? ”
shifra: are you inferring that stealing (3 million Euro) is not an issur mi de oraita?
The FPÖ (austrian far right party) will love to hear it...
They already deposited a motion in parliament to look into this "shady plea-bargaining".
In other words: Austrian jews will have to pay for it. That's the meaning of "kol israel areivin zeh la zeh": "RAbbi" S. steals, Shifra thinks it's OK, and jews in Austria pay...
51
Jul 09, 2009 at 05:51 PM Reality Check Says:Report as Inappropriate
I've yet to see a report of a Jew sitting in jail because HE actually did something.They're all sitting for someone else, all innocent and we should do the mitzvah of pidyon shvuyim. What sick logie. After Mr. S gets out of jail he can continue supporting the Rebbe and the satmars with the money he stole from others. A tzadik!!!!
52
Jul 09, 2009 at 05:40 PM Holy Hyrax Says:Report as Inappropriate
BTW do you assume justice gets perverted ALL the time, in every case, with every murder/fraud trial or only when a Jew is being prosecuted?
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Jul 09, 2009 at 05:36 PM Holy Hyrax Says:Report as Inappropriate
I don't understand. So because justice is not perfectly implemented this means what exactly? That this mean should be excepted with open arms? You don't 'play God' by wanting a man that admitted his guilt to be punished as he should, and not have people welcome him with such open arms and be happy that he is free. What would you think if people welcomed OJ Simpson after he was found not guilty? Should we refrain from any judgements against him and applaud the millions he (probably) gave in charities during his years?
54
Jul 10, 2009 at 12:05 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Sub total what I see from all the comments, no one bashes Reb Zalman Leib becuase the reader is a Chused from Satmar Rabbe Reb Aron, they're just bashing him cuz he's a Satmarar! Shame on u! Rubashkin didn't do crimes? & everybody is trying to help him! Common wake up! What do u think? Rebbe Moshe Leib Sasaver worked on Pidyan Sheveeyam for Tzadikem in jail? He worked for everyone!!! If Reb Zalman & his son Reb Yakov Ber with the Horodanka Ruv were involved in this one, all the credit should be given to them!!! No matter what Mr. S. Did!!! Pidyan Sheveeyam is still a Mitzvah! I can't take anymore the Sinas Chinom which that's why we are in Gulas! Yes Tishu B'Av is only cuz of this style of stupid Sinas-Satmar comments! Enough!
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Jul 10, 2009 at 03:52 AM e. grossmann Says:Report as Inappropriate
"Pidyan Sheveeyam is still a Mitzvah!"
Pidyon shevuim does not apply to criminals who sit in jail because they deserve it, in a state with recognised justice system, without death penalty, with no antisemitic bias.
(In this case, the problem seems to be that there is a philosemitic bias).
If you say that this is Pidyon shevuim, you make fun of the Torah that you claim to love so much.
Second: Mr. S was very careful not to recognise any claim (that he will have to give money back)
Now what is this according to torah? Is this really kehalacha to take money from poor, desperate people, taking advantage of the fact that they do not speak nor read the local language (Le cheresch lo tekalel, lefnei iver al tasim michschol), and never paying it back?
What was the thing about adding 1/5 if one stole? What is the thing about being sold for the money by the beith din if you cannot give back the money?
So really: the Torah would not let him get away with this. Why should he get away in Austrian justice system.
I agree that a criminal also needs a sanegor who helps him. But to all those who say that this was pidyon shevuim, I reply: "Ha merachem al achzarim, sofo le achzer al rachamim".
By the way: can you imagine the scenes when the bank claimed a huge mortgage back from a poor immigrant who had never seen the flat upon which the mortgage was taken out in his name? Do you imagine how many people were destroyed by this, how their wives suffered? They were not jewish? You do not care? Then you are simply not human.
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Jul 10, 2009 at 03:35 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Sub total what I see from all the comments, no one bashes Reb Zalman Leib becuase the reader is a Chused from Satmar Rabbe Reb Aron, they're just bashing him cuz he's a Satmarar! Shame on u! Rubashkin didn't do crimes? & everybody is trying to help him! Common wake up! What do u think? Rebbe Moshe Leib Sasaver worked on Pidyan Sheveeyam for Tzadikem in jail? He worked for everyone!!! If Reb Zalman & his son Reb Yakov Ber with the Horodanka Ruv were involved in this one, all the credit should be given to them!!! No matter what Mr. S. Did!!! Pidyan Sheveeyam is still a Mitzvah! I can't take anymore the Sinas Chinom which that's why we are in Gulas! Yes Tishu B'Av is only cuz of this style of stupid Sinas-Satmar comments! Enough! ”
PERFECTLY SAID! Thank you so much!!!
i have to add a story: in london years ago there was a similar story where someone did some stick with money from ppl including almonos... and when he got into trouble Reb Itzikel ztz"l came to london to help him. everyone was very angry how can he help a person like this? his answer was: when a yid is in trouble we help him. we dont laud what he did. we dont say the crime he did doesnt exist. but we look aside for the moment in order to help a fellow yid.
that is ALL i am trying to point out.
and to "Holy Horax" - you seem not interested in actualy understanding what i am saying, but just like to make ur own assumptions to what you want me to be saying.... thats real sad
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Jul 10, 2009 at 07:19 AM Logic613 Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I would wonder if you get ever indicted for a crime if your local rabbi would even make a phone call for u.? ”
If I was an ADMITTED GANEF, I think my rov would follow dina d'malchusa dina. The call my rov would make is to lend support for a good outcome and not spring me out of jail so as to show everyone in the community that you are allowed to steal people's hard earned money and the rebbe will take care of you afterwards.
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Jul 10, 2009 at 08:54 AM anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ shifra: are you inferring that stealing (3 million Euro) is not an issur mi de oraita?
The FPÖ (austrian far right party) will love to hear it...
They already deposited a motion in parliament to look into this "shady plea-bargaining".
In other words: Austrian jews will have to pay for it. That's the meaning of "kol israel areivin zeh la zeh": "RAbbi" S. steals, Shifra thinks it's OK, and jews in Austria pay... ”
You are so right and currently the Euro is equal to $ 1.30. At least you have a sense of history. Austria has long history of antisemitism even before Hitler going back to Lueger and this will only given them more munition.
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Jul 10, 2009 at 03:25 PM Pidyon ganovim is not a mitzveh Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is a disgrace. I am sick and tired of these 'frum' criminals asking for help. Lo signov and chillul Hashem is not in their Torah, just their phony, incorrect interpretation of 'pidyon shvuyim'. It is called pidyon shvuyim for reason. It is not called 'pidyon ganovim'!!!! Think about it!!
They need an extended 'vacation' in jail, which they should have to pay/work for too!
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Jul 10, 2009 at 05:37 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ "nearly 10% of the US population is behind bars" from where did you get these figures? it means 30 Million are in prison, try to be better informed before you make
a public statement. ”
NY Times 1 out of 100 people in jail
see link
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html
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Jul 12, 2009 at 03:29 AM Milhouse Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ If I was an ADMITTED GANEF, I think my rov would follow dina d'malchusa dina. The call my rov would make is to lend support for a good outcome and not spring me out of jail so as to show everyone in the community that you are allowed to steal people's hard earned money and the rebbe will take care of you afterwards. ”
Good. You have the rov that you deserve. You should be happy with each other.
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Jul 12, 2009 at 03:27 AM Milhouse Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I don't understand. So because justice is not perfectly implemented this means what exactly? That this mean should be excepted with open arms? You don't 'play God' by wanting a man that admitted his guilt to be punished as he should, and not have people welcome him with such open arms and be happy that he is free. What would you think if people welcomed OJ Simpson after he was found not guilty? Should we refrain from any judgements against him and applaud the millions he (probably) gave in charities during his years? ”
Do you think there is no difference between a yid and an OJ?
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Jul 12, 2009 at 03:27 AM Milhouse Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ shifra: are you inferring that stealing (3 million Euro) is not an issur mi de oraita?
The FPÖ (austrian far right party) will love to hear it...
They already deposited a motion in parliament to look into this "shady plea-bargaining".
In other words: Austrian jews will have to pay for it. That's the meaning of "kol israel areivin zeh la zeh": "RAbbi" S. steals, Shifra thinks it's OK, and jews in Austria pay... ”
So don't tell them. But a din bleibt a din.
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Jul 12, 2009 at 03:24 AM Milhouse Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Fraud is ganeivah. If he gives stolen money to the poor his gain is outweighed by his loss. What he needs is to do do teshuva on his past aveiros and to be mecabel not to steal in the future. Clean money to tzedaka is a caparah. All the dirty money one gives to tzedaka vert gornisht helfen ”
Fraud is not geneivah, it's oshek, and there's an important difference. The posuk says "lo sa'ashok es re'acho, velo sigzol". It doesn't say "velo sigzenelu". That means the seifa applies to everybody, but the reisha doesn't.
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Jul 12, 2009 at 03:33 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ NY Times 1 out of 100 people in jail
see link
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html ”
fool, thats 1%