RSS Feed
Bnei Brak - Fearing Germs, Ger Rabbi Discontinues Mouth to Mouth Drinking from Rebbe's Cup |
|
| |
Text Size
|
Rabbi Yaakov Aryeh Alter, seventh and current rabbi of the Hasidic dynasty of Ger, instructed his disciples in Jerusalem a few weeks ago to toast with individual and disposable plastic cups containing a few drops of wine from the rabbi's own glass.
Hasidic Jews have toasted from the same cup at events and meals for at least 200 years.
The rabbi, who heads the largest Hasidic group in Israel, is known for his sensitivity to health issues. A few years ago, when Israel was gripped by the avian flu scare, he refrained from eating eggs until he received ones specially-imported from abroad.
Sources close to him say that his latest decision about toasting was in no way meant to protect his own health, but that of the thousands of people who follow him.
Yeshiva students who recently came from the United States and sought to meet the rabbi were asked by his aides not to shake the rabbi's hand when they see him in his Bnei Brak home.
A popular story about the rabbi's grandfather, Abraham Mordechai Alter - the dynasty's second head and a prominent writer and ruler on religion - says that when he visited Israel in the early 1900s, he rebuked a man who hesitated about drinking from the communal glass of wine.
"A hundred Jews sipped from this glass, and yet you think the wine isn't clean enough," the popular legend quotes him as saying to the germophobe.
So far, Israel has had more than 750 confirmed cases of the virus, many of whom frequent of the crowded seminaries of the ultra-Orthodox public.
Alter is not the only ultra-Orthodox leader to take precautions. Other spiritual leaders and yeshiva heads are reportedly weary of the prospect of infection in their institutions.
This concern is also reflected in Haredi media, though they prefer the term "Mexican flu." The Health Ministry, under Deputy Minister Yaakov Litzman from United Torah Judaism - who is known to be Alter's right hand man - calls the virus by its scientific name, H1N1.
More of today's headlines
“alifornia - Scientists have detected a spike in underground rumblings on a section of California's San Andreas Fault that produced a magnitude-7.8 earthquake in...”
California - Mysterious Tremors Detected, Might Predict Massive Earthquae On The Way
Jerusalem - Poll: Most Charedim Believe Riots Hurt Shabbat
Total41
Read Comments (41) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 09, 2009 at 06:17 PM Anonymous Says:
What's next, no more mezizah be'peh?
2
Jul 09, 2009 at 05:57 PM chesky Says:
Great! Hishtadlis has to be done. And the rest we leave for fashem!
3
Jul 09, 2009 at 06:23 PM Anonymous Says:
typical left wing paper cant give any info over right.
4
Jul 09, 2009 at 06:32 PM chaim Says:
they should have stopped this nonsense a long time ago,and what about the idiotic shreyem?
5
Jul 09, 2009 at 06:32 PM Reb Usher Says:
Why do we have to wait for swine flu, any first grader knows that drinking from the same glass is unsanitary. Being a Rebbe doesn't prevent you from transmitting germs and bacteria.
6
Jul 09, 2009 at 07:12 PM Anonymous Says:
i think Shurayim is a greater danger than a glass of wine.
I mean, wine has alcahol which would kill some germs.
But shuryaim whichis passed from hand to hand mouth to mouth, and its gefilte fish, its salmon, its challah and its kneidlech....
I am all for shurayim and sharing cups... but choose the greater danger!
I also think its commendable for the gerrer rebbe to be responsive to world events.
7
Jul 09, 2009 at 07:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why do we have to wait for swine flu, any first grader knows that drinking from the same glass is unsanitary. Being a Rebbe doesn't prevent you from transmitting germs and bacteria. ”
You cannot catch anything but kidusha from a heiliger Rebbe.
8
Jul 09, 2009 at 07:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ they should have stopped this nonsense a long time ago,and what about the idiotic shreyem? ”
and why is it idiotic?
9
Jul 09, 2009 at 07:15 PM Jewish tradition????? Says:
"one of Judaism's time-honored traditions"
What???!!!!
Maybe they mean Hassidic tradition, not Jewish.
10
Jul 09, 2009 at 06:52 PM Anonymous Says:
I stopped that shtick ages ago & everyone thought I was being "kalt" and modern.
11
Jul 09, 2009 at 06:51 PM Anonymous Says:
“ they should have stopped this nonsense a long time ago,and what about the idiotic shreyem? ”
You chutzpah...Im not even a chassid and I can see this as offensive towards erliche yidden and tradition. Why don't you worry about how you act with people and stop reading this website. Nebach.
12
Jul 09, 2009 at 06:49 PM Anonymous Says:
with his reasoning we should stop metzitza bpeh too which is exactly what many rabbonim have been saying for ages. bout time someone is waking up
13
Jul 09, 2009 at 07:33 PM Sam Says:
“ with his reasoning we should stop metzitza bpeh too which is exactly what many rabbonim have been saying for ages. bout time someone is waking up ”
Ask your local pediatrician how many babies he has seen infected due to metzitza bipeh (when other sources of infection were eliminated as the cause). The number is really small. Much smaller than other sources of infection. Mohelim take many steps to insure safety. To compare a very careful mohel who takes measures to protect the baby to hundreds (or thousands) drinking from a common cup is an unfair comparison. It tends to cause the reader to suspect a different agenda.
14
Jul 09, 2009 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:
How about the Herring and Galah?
15
Jul 09, 2009 at 07:31 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ Why do we have to wait for swine flu, any first grader knows that drinking from the same glass is unsanitary. Being a Rebbe doesn't prevent you from transmitting germs and bacteria. ”
...Not to speak of the Chassidim. Not to sound facetious. But it's an unhealthy practice and should be stopped! It is in the Gemara, that one should wipe clean the cup (rinse it) before turning it over to someone else... in order to preven the spreading of disease!!!
16
Jul 09, 2009 at 07:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You cannot catch anything but kidusha from a heiliger Rebbe. ”
Wrong: you can catch some really heilege germs and virus even from the a gadol. Whats wrong with you. Rabbonim are human and have the same biological attributes as the rest of us. They would never say that they cannot transmit germs. Even worse, when the same kiddush cup is passed from chassid to chassid the risks go up astronomically since I've never seen worse personal hygiene than the bochurim at some of kollels and batei medrashim.
17
Jul 09, 2009 at 08:44 PM Anonymous Says:
I somehow feel the world has become much too complicated. I have visions of the rebbitzen running around after kidush at the rebbe's tisch with a can of lysol spraying disinfectant on the kiddush cup and platter of challah being passed around after ham'otzi.
18
Jul 09, 2009 at 09:18 PM Idea Says:
Why can't he make kiddush and just pour some out before he drinks? I've seem ppl do that and since their being yotzeh it shouldn't be an issue..
19
Jul 09, 2009 at 08:53 PM na nach Says:
minhag yisroel torah: these minhagim date back years, however the torah itself says Vnishmartem meoid lnafshoisachem, so its simply the same torah that we follow in the minhagim and when we stop them. but there is no need of making fun of minhag yisroel.
20
Jul 09, 2009 at 11:55 PM Anonymous Says:
i guess that's why they don't go to demonstration in regards to chilul shabbos
21
Jul 10, 2009 at 12:48 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What's next, no more mezizah be'peh? ”
Swine flu isn't transmitted by blood its transmitted in the air and the bacteria will live in moist places so from my scientific knowledge I don't think mitzizah bipah would be a problem but if it is then a mohel that is sick should take a week off and stay home and not perform and circumscision
22
Jul 10, 2009 at 05:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You cannot catch anything but kidusha from a heiliger Rebbe. ”
You should call the Gerrer Rebbeh and let him know.
23
Jul 10, 2009 at 05:26 AM UBET Says:
What's next...No kissing the mezuza? Each muzuza is handled by so many hands.. Now what????
24
Jul 10, 2009 at 04:39 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You cannot catch anything but kidusha from a heiliger Rebbe. ”
Was the Gerrer out sick the day they taught that lesson in Rebbeh Training 101?
25
Jul 10, 2009 at 08:13 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What's next...No kissing the mezuza? Each muzuza is handled by so many hands.. Now what???? ”
We have adopted the California minhag of using an "air kiss" for the mezuza...no direct contact. Hashem will understand.
26
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:46 AM Yehuda Says:
Have all of those who condem this time honored tradition stopped shaking hands with people, stopped touching door handles, wash your hands constantly, avoid crowded places, etc.
27
Jul 10, 2009 at 10:00 AM i say Says:
“ i guess that's why they don't go to demonstration in regards to chilul shabbos ”
u don't know what your talking about i personally davened with all the gerer chasidim from yerushalayim two weeks ago at the massive outdoor kabbalas shabbos endorsed by the gerer rebbe, besides he is the founder and driving force behind getting big chain stores in israel to close for shabbos.
do some more homework before you type next time
28
Jul 10, 2009 at 11:40 AM Anonymous Says:
“ We have adopted the California minhag of using an "air kiss" for the mezuza...no direct contact. Hashem will understand. ”
Even simpler: Kiss your hand and then touch the mezuzah instead of touching the mezuzah and then kissing your hand.
29
Jul 10, 2009 at 12:02 PM observer Says:
Don’t get overly excited.
Shirrayim is a holy chassidishe minhag that is beyond us to abolish. Please read the Gerrer Rebbe's words again. Taking wine from his becher and puting several drops into a plastic cup is fine. Obviously he can vouch for his health. The problem arises when all chassidim pass the cup one to another. You can't possibly know if one of them is ch"v infected with a contagious disease.
Do you kiss the Kosel? Make certain not to ingest a different parson’s tears.
Above all, remember, “shomer mitzvah lo yeida davar ra”.
30
Jul 10, 2009 at 01:17 PM Anonymous Says:
“ How about the Herring and Galah? ”
ahh you should taste the gala at kikar hashabbos unbeleiveable
31
Jul 10, 2009 at 05:13 PM Milhouse Says:
“ ...Not to speak of the Chassidim. Not to sound facetious. But it's an unhealthy practice and should be stopped! It is in the Gemara, that one should wipe clean the cup (rinse it) before turning it over to someone else... in order to preven the spreading of disease!!! ”
Well, not exactly. The Amoro'im didn't know about germs. The concern the gemoro has is that the other person might be unusually sensitive (an istenis) and be so disgusted at the thought of drinking from someone else's mouth that they will not drink and might die of thirst. To prevent that, one must rinse the edge of the cup after drinking, before handing it to someone else. As in many such cases, nowadays we are all istenisin in this regard.
32
Jul 10, 2009 at 05:09 PM Milhouse Says:
“ with his reasoning we should stop metzitza bpeh too which is exactly what many rabbonim have been saying for ages. bout time someone is waking up ”
Metzitza befeh is a halacha. Drinking from the same cup is not. Even at kiddush, look at the gemoro in Arvei Psochim to see how it was done in Chazal's time.
33
Jul 10, 2009 at 05:14 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Why can't he make kiddush and just pour some out before he drinks? I've seem ppl do that and since their being yotzeh it shouldn't be an issue.. ”
A much better procedure is to have everyone put some wine in their cups before kiddush, and drink it immediately after the brocho is over. That way there's no hefsek and no germs. And that's the way it was done in Chazal's day.
34
Jul 11, 2009 at 09:52 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ Well, not exactly. The Amoro'im didn't know about germs. The concern the gemoro has is that the other person might be unusually sensitive (an istenis) and be so disgusted at the thought of drinking from someone else's mouth that they will not drink and might die of thirst. To prevent that, one must rinse the edge of the cup after drinking, before handing it to someone else. As in many such cases, nowadays we are all istenisin in this regard. ”
Not true! They did know about germs. They knew about contagious disease and the method of transfer!
35
Jul 11, 2009 at 11:55 PM Harav Shach Hu Tzodaik Says:
“ Not true! They did know about germs. They knew about contagious disease and the method of transfer! ”
How can a ben torah even think that chazal didn't understand that illnesses can be passed from person to person???
36
Jul 12, 2009 at 12:16 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Metzitza befeh is a halacha. Drinking from the same cup is not. Even at kiddush, look at the gemoro in Arvei Psochim to see how it was done in Chazal's time. ”
Not according to every posaik.
There are well-respected mohallim today who will not perform a bris if the parents insist on metzitza bepeh.
37
Jul 12, 2009 at 02:34 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Not according to every posaik.
There are well-respected mohallim today who will not perform a bris if the parents insist on metzitza bepeh. ”
Who respects them?
38
Jul 12, 2009 at 02:33 AM Milhouse Says:
“ How can a ben torah even think that chazal didn't understand that illnesses can be passed from person to person??? ”
What has that got to do with anything?
39
Jul 12, 2009 at 02:32 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Not true! They did know about germs. They knew about contagious disease and the method of transfer! ”
They certainly did not know about germs. There is not the slightest mention of any such notion in the gemoro.
40
Jul 12, 2009 at 02:52 AM moshe Says:
#23 if I recall correctly Rav henkin z"l claims that you shouldnt kiss the sefer torah with your mouth, only via your tallis. If I remember correctly the Lubavitcher Rebbe of blessed memory never kissed the mezuza only touched it (or at times just looked at it), and also only touched the sefer torah but did not kiss it directly with his mouth!
41
Jul 15, 2009 at 03:01 AM yankel Says:
#40 we do kiss the mezuzah and sefer torah directly with mouth and that i see correctly