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Jerusalem - Plan to Humiliate Traffic Offenders Nixed by Rav Elyashiv |
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The National Authority for Road Safety was enthusiastic about the idea and is presently preparing it as a bill for the Knesset to vote over. They asked the chareidi to come to their office to discuss the details of his plan with them.
Before he took up their offer, the avreich decided to check if the idea negates halacha in any way. He visited Rav Elyashiv to get his opinion.
Rav Elyashiv said that the idea is in principle good, but "these laws they want to enforce are not Torah laws but laws of arka'os which the legislators made up themselves. How can we support any non-Torah laws -- even indirectly? We may not support them."
The avreich tried to withdraw his suggestion, but the National Authority has already given its backing for the idea and said they will advance it to law.
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Read Comments (29) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 10, 2009 at 08:46 AM Concerned Member Says:
It might have been wiser to check in with the Rabbi first. It's a bit late now.
Just saying...
2
Jul 10, 2009 at 08:57 AM Gefilte Fish Says:
So according to the torah we're not supposed to infosce public safety?
3
Jul 10, 2009 at 08:55 AM Anonymous Says:
Does Rav Elyashiv mean that laws regarding safety are not Torah laws?
4
Jul 10, 2009 at 08:54 AM Anonymous Says:
Does the Shulchan Aruch deal with traffic offences?
5
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:13 AM Expatriate Owl Says:
Is the Rabbi concerned with the tzniut issues involved in publicizing the photographs of female traffic offenders?
Oh, wait! Women don't drive anyway!
6
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:21 AM Anonymous Says:
what is wrong with u peapole u call urself frum jews and critisize the godal hador's psak what do u know about halacha?! what gives u a right 2 talk!??!!
7
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:17 AM Anonymous Says:
It may be a law of arka'os but it's a question of pikuach nefesh, not some silly Zionist law. It doesn't make sense that Rav Eliashiv Shlit"a would say this.
8
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:30 AM Dr. Dre-Kup Says:
I believe Hatzolos Nefashos and and inyanim of Nezikin are Torah principles. If the Gedolei Hador were running the medinah, traffic laws would become halachic issues; there is also the consideration of Dina Demalchusa Dina.
Let's see those pictures!
9
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:29 AM Anonymous Says:
"7-time serious traffic violation offenders "
Why aren't their licenses revoked before then? Why the need to humiliate people?
Doesn't Israel have good public transportation? Driving in Israel is probably more of a luxury than a necessity.
10
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:41 AM Yehuda Says:
What happened to dina d'malcusa dina?
11
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:38 AM Dag Says:
Can they support laws that provide funding to their Yeshivas? What about stipends? Aren't those non-Torah laws even if the idea is good, in principle?
12
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:34 AM Torah Truth Says:
“ what is wrong with u peapole u call urself frum jews and critisize the godal hador's psak what do u know about halacha?! what gives u a right 2 talk!??!! ”
Have you confirmed the P’sak? Isn’t it possible he was misquoted? Isn’t it possible that others would disagree? BTW, he also pakens that you should not use the internet, I’m just guessing you don’t follow that P’sak either… just a guess…
13
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:31 AM Torah Truth Says:
I think someone needs to see if Rav Elyashiv actually said this. I find it difficult to accept that laws regarding P’kuach Nefashos is in some form not considered laws to be followed Al Pi Torah. Should we not obey traffic lights? Should we drive on the wrong side of the road? Should our children not wear helmets when they ride bikes? Should we allow children to practice underage drinking? What about drug use? You will not find these “Halachos” (laws) anywhere in the Torah or Shulchan Aruch… but you will find Vshomartem es Nasfshoseichem. I would assume Rav Elyashiv was misquoted or I dear say most Poskim would disagree.
14
Jul 10, 2009 at 10:30 AM Anonymous Says:
THE ENDS NEVER JUSTIFY THE MEANS,
15
Jul 10, 2009 at 10:21 AM Boruch Says:
"He visited Rav Elyashiv."
The avreich did not actually and personally speak with the Rav.
A third party informed the avreich that his message was conveyed to the Rav.
Then Rav Elyashiv's alleged response was conveyed back to the avreich.
Rav Elyashiv's real opinion on this matter is unknown.
16
Jul 10, 2009 at 10:00 AM Charles Hall Says:
Far more Jews in Israel die in traffic accidents than from terrorism. What are we doing about this?
17
Jul 10, 2009 at 10:49 AM Sam Says:
“ what is wrong with u peapole u call urself frum jews and critisize the godal hador's psak what do u know about halacha?! what gives u a right 2 talk!??!! ”
Stop using the word "right". Anyone has the right to write whatever he wants. You can argue whether to avreich was correct or not etc. but the posters have the "right" to post what they want based on the first amendment to the constitution. If you don't agree, say he is wrong but leave constitutional law out of this.
18
Jul 10, 2009 at 09:50 AM Anonymous Says:
I think what was meant is that we are not part of the judicial system in israel because it functions as a secular court. therefore we can not be a part of it. but i may be wrong
19
Jul 10, 2009 at 11:35 AM Anonymous Says:
Is a jew not allowed to be a legislator?
20
Jul 10, 2009 at 12:41 PM Anonymous Says:
R' Elyashiv seems to have the satmarer Shita that there is no Malchis there.
21
Jul 10, 2009 at 01:02 PM me Says:
So when he was receiving a paycheck from Israel, he didn't cash it?
22
Jul 10, 2009 at 03:36 PM Anonymous Says:
"So when he was receiving a paycheck from Israel, he didn't cash it?"
No, back then the State was in. Now it's out. Get with the program.
23
Jul 10, 2009 at 03:35 PM Anonymous Says:
""these laws they want to enforce are not Torah laws but laws of arka'os which the legislators made up themselves. How can we support any non-Torah laws -- even indirectly? We may not support them.""
I hope he's being misquoted. That has to be one of the least intelligent things I have ever heard., even from a halachic perspective.
24
Jul 10, 2009 at 03:34 PM Meir Says:
This whole story sounds a bit sketchy
25
Jul 10, 2009 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:
This story and several other recent stories allegedly based on what Rav Eliyahav may have said or was understood to paskin suggest that someone is trying to make the rav seem to be a fool I don't believe many of the statements that are attributed to him. It would be much better for everyone if the journalists or editors would call the Rav directly and confirm the accuracy of these alleged psaks and opinions before some of this nareskeit is posted, potentially embarrasing Rav Eliyashav. I'm sure he would want his views to be accurately quoted and would appreciate the opportunity to clarify his views.
26
Jul 10, 2009 at 05:24 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This story and several other recent stories allegedly based on what Rav Eliyahav may have said or was understood to paskin suggest that someone is trying to make the rav seem to be a fool I don't believe many of the statements that are attributed to him. It would be much better for everyone if the journalists or editors would call the Rav directly and confirm the accuracy of these alleged psaks and opinions before some of this nareskeit is posted, potentially embarrasing Rav Eliyashav. I'm sure he would want his views to be accurately quoted and would appreciate the opportunity to clarify his views. ”
The rav is a gadol and doesn't speak to anyone. Like most gadolim, he does not communicate in the same way as a political figure but uses his gabboim and assistants as intermediaries. I agree that this indirect mode of communication lends itself to confusion but it has been this way for generations. One does not simply dial the rav's cellphone and say "Im a journalist on deadline...did you really say XYZ........."
27
Jul 11, 2009 at 11:12 PM Anonymous Says:
this is so dumb...i cant beleive it! of course safety is important and its a mitzvah doraisa.
28
Jul 12, 2009 at 05:23 AM Doniels Says:
To #26: I'm not sure what changed with Moron Rav Eliyashiv, but most [if not all] other Gedolim are accessible to the public; Rav SZ Auerbach zt"l never had a "gabbai" - we spoke to him directly - and got clear answers from him directly.
From what I hear the Lubavitcher Rebbe zt"l also spoke directly to the people.
Moreinu Horav Scheinberg shlita also lets people come and talk to him - and answers then with clear precise information.
The list goes on and on... with Rav Eliyashiv being the exception - and the "messages" are often most astounding.
29
Jul 12, 2009 at 03:46 PM Abba Says:
How can it be that the Maran is inaccessbile? I see pictures in my local Yiddisha newspapers every week that some chashuva Baal HaBayis or one of our rabbanim from the Five Towns met with and spoke to Harav Eliyashiv. I do not belive Maran is so elusive and I really do not beleive he says so many what seems to be crazy things. Who are talking about? This is the gadol B'dor and he cars about Yiddisha folk and thier lives.