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Jerusalem - Rav Amram Blau's Interview Before His Death

Published on: July 12, 2009 11:40 AM
By: VIN News By Ezra Reichman |Sha'ah Tova
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The article appeared in the Hebrew MagazineThe article appeared in the Hebrew Magazine

Jerusalem - Fifteen tapes were recently discovered containing thirty hours of interviews by Rav Amram Blau, the founder and head of the Neturei Karta, to an American journalist several months before his death in 1974. The article contains fascinating insights into the Neturei Karta’s struggle against the Zionists and life in Yerushalayim at the beginning of the twentieth century. The following are several interesting pieces from the interview:

How Hashem Hu Malkeinu Was Composed

Immediately after the State was founded, several of our young men were arrested for “evading the draft”. They composed the song “Hashem Hu Malkeinu” while in prison. I view that as a miracle, because they knew nothing about music.

The song goes (in English) Hashem is our King, and we are his servants. Our holy Torah is our law and we are loyal to it. We don’t recognize the regime of the heretics, we don’t accept their authority, we do not submit to their government, and their laws do not obligate us. We will go in the Torah’s way, in fire and water, to glorify and sanctify the Name of Heaven.

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We sing it during our affairs and celebrations..

Every time I sat in jail, the police wanted to hear the song. They would stand around me and I would sing the song.

Reb Amram Blau in Prison

I said a shiur for the prisoners who came to shul. Once, policemen entered and without me realizing it, they snapped me saying the shiur and printed the picture in their organ newspaper.

Spector was the prison director. Although he was a Zionist, he was a gentleman who treated me decently. He said that when I’m in prison, the other prisoners behave better and he doesn’t suffer from their quarrels and brawls.

The prison published a wall newspaper called “Patience.” The director asked me to write an article for the newspaper. I wrote a short article quoting Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakkai’s words before his death: “I would be afraid if I was being brought to a human king who doesn’t imprison a person for life, and when he puts to death, it’s not forever. But now that I am being taken to the King of kings, who can imprison forever, and kill forever, how much more so should I be afraid!”  I meant it as inspiration for the upcoming Day of Judgment. When you sit in prison, it’s a little easier to feel it. They made it the main feature in the newspaper.”

I was in the Ramle prison for five months for demonstrating over the women’s army draft, and the mixed swimming pool.. The director apologized to me for not having a place to daven, and he gave us a room. In the beginning, we had just a minyan, but by the time we left, there were 70 people regularly davening.

If the Zionists Would Offer the State to the Chareidim

Journalist: I want to ask a hypothetical question. If they would come in the middle of the day and tell the chareidim ‘We’re giving the State to you, do with it what you want.’ What would you do?

Rav Amram: We would take it for a short while and then tell the Arabs, “We have no dispute with you. You can live here. Whoever wants can come live here,

Journalist: But if the Arabs would come, wouldn’t they kill all the Jews?

Rav Amram: G-d forbid. If we would speak that way to them, they wouldn’t kill us. They want to kill only because we forcibly rule them. But if you don’t want to occupy them, they wouldn’t be like that.

The Zionists want to rule over them, but not us. In our eyes, they are no different than the goyim of Switzerland and America. Once Arabs can come and do as they like, they won’t mind that there are even more Jews than them. The Arabs are not worse than any other non-Jews.

Journalist: But everyone knows their brutality when they manage to get ahold of a Jew!

Rav Amram: I’ll tell you the facts and what the situation was like with the Arabs. I lived 18 years under the Turkish government. It never happened that a goy killed a Jew. I ran the Ramasayim Tzofim company, and when they came to our home to sell land, etc. they would stand outside the door. For just one shilling, even their mukhtar would bow his head and you could step all over him. That was the situation of the Arabs then. The Pasha (Ahmad Jemal Pasha—the Turkish ruler of Eretz Yisroel) would pass by our door every day. He traveled in a carriage pulled by horses.

I remember one event. I went with my brother-in-law in the night, and an Arab hit him in the back with a stick. During 18 years, I almost can’t remember another such event. Due to our many sins, the Zionists taught the Jews to act worse than Arabs. When the Jews ran out of the Old City, the Arabs followed them shouting “Deir Yassin! Deir Yassin!” They meant that they weren’t harming the Jews despite the Zionists attacking the Arabs in Deir Yassin and slaughtering even expecting women there. They carried out a pogrom there, something the Jews have never done anywhere in the world.

I met one of the senior Arab leaders. I don’t remember what his name was, and he told me, “The Jews were missing nothing in Syria and Morocco and other Arab countries! They did very well there!”

If someone would come and push you out of your home, take the key to the money box and act like the owner, would you agree to that?

Journalist: If the Arabs aren’t any worse than any other people, why did the Arabs kill the yeshiva students in Chevron?

Rav Amram:
When I was 7 years old, I spent a month in Chevron with another few Jews. I stayed by Rev Zalman Shochet. It wasn’t like in Yerushalayim. There were only a few courtyards where just a few hundreds of Jews lived, but they weren’t afraid. I had a cousin named Naftali Chaimson who owned a store among all the non-Jewish stores.

All the problems in Chevron began after the Balfour Declaration. But before the Zionists came, we lived together. The Arabs killed the yeshiva students in Chevron because the Zionists made it clear when they came here that they planned to conquer and take it over.

The Neturei Karta Hasn’t Grown; the Zionists are Increasing

Journalist: We have to think about what will be with the next generation. The reality shows that the Neturei Karta hasn’t grown, and the Aida Hachareidis hasn’t expanded either. This is true for all chareidi Jews in general, while we see that the Zionists are growing from day to day and they have immense power.

Rav Amram: Now is a time of trial. The situation is that Yiddishkeit is destroyed. The situation together is grave, and much feeling and yiras shomayim is missing.

Rav Amram On Demonstrations:

Even children know today that when you have a battle spirit for Shabbos and tznius, and you protest against breaches and fight the policemen, these protests help other places in the world.

In the U.S., there were hotels that had mixed swimming, and important people would rent a room there and didn’t feel anything was wrong with it. When we make protests here, it puts a swimming pool in a U.S. hotel in a negative light. An important person will be ashamed to go to a hotel with mixed swimming after the commotion we made about it.



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Read Comments (63)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Jul 12, 2009 at 10:57 AM Milhouse Says:

R Amram zt"l was a true ohev yisroel, and even the zionists respected him for it. He never made common cause with antisemites. The clowns who have hijacked the name "Neturei Karta" have nothing to do with him or his derech.

3

 Jul 12, 2009 at 11:24 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to 1 - Oh shut up.Read the interview and stop trying to rile up the crowds.

4

 Jul 12, 2009 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Nebech a bunch of museguam ! what can we say only that they r a bunch of behimes !!!

5

 Jul 12, 2009 at 11:30 AM proud israeli Says:

hey the truth is any way here there are no neturi karta today and there is a frum huge community in israel so .....................

6

 Jul 12, 2009 at 11:29 AM Anonymous Says:

didnt the zionists castrate him by kicking him repeatedly?

7

 Jul 12, 2009 at 11:54 AM rivkie Says:

It is not proper to speak against Jews and to defend arabs, even if intentions are "good". And we see the results of this type of education when you see how certain members of what is today referred to as Naturei Karta did chilul Hashem in Iran etc. It is never okay to side with the goyim against yidden, even if the yidden are not behaving according to Torah. So it is unfortunate that some of Naturei Karta of today are misguided and on a wrong path, may Hashem have rachmonos. They feel they are doing a mitzva to fight zionism but if it turns into chilul Hashem instead of kiddush Hashem then obviously something is wrong with the path they have chosen....

8

 Jul 12, 2009 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Didn’t he marred a convert, she was actress from France and that is one of the main reasons that Satmer rebbie was against him, I remember something like that in 1960’s

9

 Jul 12, 2009 at 12:19 PM Rochel Says:

Thanks for posting, since there is not so many articles about him... I have found an article about the Neturei Karta Rebbetzin, which is very hard to find something about her.
Rabbi Blau indeed married a french convert, I have no idea if she was an actress before her conversion.... here's the article if interested :
http://www.mishpacha.com/getPdf/1/260/56/0/36

10

 Jul 12, 2009 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reb Amrom was a big tzadik, and we would be much better off listening to him, there would be much less Jewish bloodshed and arab bloodshed, less wars period.

11

 Jul 12, 2009 at 01:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

Reply to 1 - Oh shut up.Read the interview and stop trying to rile up the crowds.

why dont you try to be a little nicer to fellow yidden during the three weeks.

12

 Jul 12, 2009 at 01:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Milhouse Says:

R Amram zt"l was a true ohev yisroel, and even the zionists respected him for it. He never made common cause with antisemites. The clowns who have hijacked the name "Neturei Karta" have nothing to do with him or his derech.

Millhouse how can you praise a man that all the rabbinical leadership told him he should not marry his wife and he did regardless, and if I did something like that, you would rip me apart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amram_Blau

With the founding of Israel in 1948 she became interested in Zionism and then in Orthodox Judaism; within a few years she divorced her husband and converted to Judaism, but eventually abandoned her Zionist views in favour of the anti-Zionist views of Satmar.[7] The match was opposed by Blau's two adult sons[2] and by the Rabbinical Court of the Edah HaChareidis, so the couple had to move to Bnei Brak,[5] but a year later they returned to Meah Shearim.[2]

13

 Jul 12, 2009 at 01:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Ruth Blau was the French Giyores who smuggled the famous Yossele shumacher out of Israel.

14

 Jul 12, 2009 at 01:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Rochel Says:

Thanks for posting, since there is not so many articles about him... I have found an article about the Neturei Karta Rebbetzin, which is very hard to find something about her.
Rabbi Blau indeed married a french convert, I have no idea if she was an actress before her conversion.... here's the article if interested :
http://www.mishpacha.com/getPdf/1/260/56/0/36

thanks for the link Interesting memories

15

 Jul 12, 2009 at 01:51 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

Millhouse how can you praise a man that all the rabbinical leadership told him he should not marry his wife and he did regardless, and if I did something like that, you would rip me apart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amram_Blau

With the founding of Israel in 1948 she became interested in Zionism and then in Orthodox Judaism; within a few years she divorced her husband and converted to Judaism, but eventually abandoned her Zionist views in favour of the anti-Zionist views of Satmar.[7] The match was opposed by Blau's two adult sons[2] and by the Rabbinical Court of the Edah HaChareidis, so the couple had to move to Bnei Brak,[5] but a year later they returned to Meah Shearim.[2]

When it comes to shiduchim you don't even have to listen to your parents, kol shekein the eidoh. Did they have a halachic objection? Not as far as I know. So why shouldn't he have married her?

(And by the way, I'm perfectly aware of that WP article and its history. Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs.)

16

 Jul 12, 2009 at 01:49 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #9  
Rochel Says:

Thanks for posting, since there is not so many articles about him... I have found an article about the Neturei Karta Rebbetzin, which is very hard to find something about her.
Rabbi Blau indeed married a french convert, I have no idea if she was an actress before her conversion.... here's the article if interested :
http://www.mishpacha.com/getPdf/1/260/56/0/36

"Actress" is a nice word for it. But what difference does that make? She was a giyores tzedek and a big tzadeikes.

17

 Jul 12, 2009 at 01:44 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Rochel Says:

Thanks for posting, since there is not so many articles about him... I have found an article about the Neturei Karta Rebbetzin, which is very hard to find something about her.
Rabbi Blau indeed married a french convert, I have no idea if she was an actress before her conversion.... here's the article if interested :
http://www.mishpacha.com/getPdf/1/260/56/0/36

she also was in the French underground and came to America to collect for children and I gave a check to her

18

 Jul 12, 2009 at 02:03 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

didnt the zionists castrate him by kicking him repeatedly?

are you one of the kickers

19

 Jul 12, 2009 at 01:43 PM shimon Says:

As much as I disagree with R' Amram Blau's views, blaming him for marrying one of the most oustanding noshim tzidkaniyos of our time is simply dumb. Read more, ask people around, and you will see. Plus whatever she was doing before her giur is nothing compared what the wife of Yehoshua Bin Nun A"H did, before she converted. Would you give him your smart eitzes too?

20

 Jul 12, 2009 at 02:51 PM not aware of arabs Says:

The arab pogrom in Damascus where 100s of rabbis and students were killed were before the Balfour Declaration. The attacks in Tzefas in the late 1800s is the same, baloney to blame the Zionists, Balfour Declaration or anything else. Learn the history of the Mufti of Jerusalem who organized gangs of feduleem killers for Jews are infidels even then..
#10 LIES that are repeated enough times become INACCURATE FACTS!!!!!

21

 Jul 12, 2009 at 02:54 PM Babishka Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Ruth Blau was the French Giyores who smuggled the famous Yossele shumacher out of Israel.

Ben Gurion was so impressed with Ruth Ben-David that he asked her to become a member of the Mossad. She told him to gey fyfen.

22

 Jul 12, 2009 at 03:50 PM Convert Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

Didn’t he marred a convert, she was actress from France and that is one of the main reasons that Satmer rebbie was against him, I remember something like that in 1960’s

His second wife (Ruth) was a convert. For his his first wife's (from the Weber family) funeral he refused to go to Har Hamunuchos claiming he did not want to leave Yerushalim and he considered Har HaMeenuchos outside of Yerushalayim.

To marry Ruth he went to Bnei Brak. The reason he married her was because according to Shulchan Aruch he could only marry a giyores. This was as a result of the specail "treatment" he received from the zionisr police. (Story from his grandson)

The Eida Hachreidas doesn't accept converts so they would not marry them. Consequently he went to Bnai Brak.

23

 Jul 12, 2009 at 03:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Journalist: We have to think about what will be with the next generation. The reality shows that the Neturei Karta hasn't grown, and the Aida Hachareidis hasn't expanded either. This is true for all chareidi Jews in general, while we see that the Zionists are growing from day to day and they have immense power.

Rav Amram: Now is a time of trial. The situation is that Yiddishkeit is destroyed. The situation together is grave, and much feeling and yiras shomayim is missing.
-----------------------
What a difference between then and now! While the Neturei Karta never did grow, as it really is an ideology that is dangerous except for true yechidei segula like Reb Amram ZYA, indeed the Eida haChareidis has expanded as have all charedi communities. Meanwhile, Zionist ideology fails more and more by the day as post-Zionist malaise takes hold.

Hashem Hu Malkeinu indeed!

24

 Jul 12, 2009 at 02:40 PM Rochel Says:

Reply to #17  
anonymous Says:

she also was in the French underground and came to America to collect for children and I gave a check to her

Even if I'm far from being a fan of Neturei Karta, I really admire her

25

 Jul 12, 2009 at 04:06 PM shimon Says:

Reply to #22  
Convert Says:

His second wife (Ruth) was a convert. For his his first wife's (from the Weber family) funeral he refused to go to Har Hamunuchos claiming he did not want to leave Yerushalim and he considered Har HaMeenuchos outside of Yerushalayim.

To marry Ruth he went to Bnei Brak. The reason he married her was because according to Shulchan Aruch he could only marry a giyores. This was as a result of the specail "treatment" he received from the zionisr police. (Story from his grandson)

The Eida Hachreidas doesn't accept converts so they would not marry them. Consequently he went to Bnai Brak.

"Eida Hachreidas doesn't accept converts" That is very incorrect. They surely do.

26

 Jul 12, 2009 at 02:25 PM dovy Says:

What a tzadik. and time has proven him correct and the state of zionism israel wrong. if only klal yisroel would have listened to him, how much life would have been saved. zy"a.

27

 Jul 12, 2009 at 02:15 PM Rochel Says:

Reply to #15  
Milhouse Says:

When it comes to shiduchim you don't even have to listen to your parents, kol shekein the eidoh. Did they have a halachic objection? Not as far as I know. So why shouldn't he have married her?

(And by the way, I'm perfectly aware of that WP article and its history. Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs.)

very true, I don't see why, as an adult, R' Blau couldn't marry her... whatever the others think, he apparently made a beautiful happy marriage with her, at least they did what they believed was the right thing to do.

for about her past, she made the choice to get a better life according to the Torah and as a convert she was forgiven for her past actions, whatever she did wrong, do not forget that before she becomes a bas yisroel she was also involved in french resistance during WWII... it's a huge thing !

28

 Jul 12, 2009 at 02:14 PM destro613 Says:

the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
the only reason the Arabs didn't kill Jews earlier was that the Turks ruled with an iron fist. We have seen what these people do and we know with out a state there would be no Jews left alive in Israel.

29

 Jul 12, 2009 at 04:15 PM Rochel Says:

Reply to #22  
Convert Says:

His second wife (Ruth) was a convert. For his his first wife's (from the Weber family) funeral he refused to go to Har Hamunuchos claiming he did not want to leave Yerushalim and he considered Har HaMeenuchos outside of Yerushalayim.

To marry Ruth he went to Bnei Brak. The reason he married her was because according to Shulchan Aruch he could only marry a giyores. This was as a result of the specail "treatment" he received from the zionisr police. (Story from his grandson)

The Eida Hachreidas doesn't accept converts so they would not marry them. Consequently he went to Bnai Brak.

"The Eida Hachreidas doesn't accept converts so they would not marry them. Consequently he went to Bnai Brak.”
Since when, and why ?

30

 Jul 12, 2009 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #27  
Rochel Says:

very true, I don't see why, as an adult, R' Blau couldn't marry her... whatever the others think, he apparently made a beautiful happy marriage with her, at least they did what they believed was the right thing to do.

for about her past, she made the choice to get a better life according to the Torah and as a convert she was forgiven for her past actions, whatever she did wrong, do not forget that before she becomes a bas yisroel she was also involved in french resistance during WWII... it's a huge thing !

Rebbetzin Ruth Bloy AH did not have a shameful past at all; if she was indeed an actress she was not involved in anything scandalous. She was in the French resistance and then had a successful business which suffered a reversal thanks to a dishonest partner.

31

 Jul 12, 2009 at 04:59 PM think a little Says:

Reply to #28  
destro613 Says:

the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
the only reason the Arabs didn't kill Jews earlier was that the Turks ruled with an iron fist. We have seen what these people do and we know with out a state there would be no Jews left alive in Israel.

so why did the Jews live in relative peace in all the arab countries before the state of israel was established??? This fellow makes good sense try and read his words with an open mind.

32

 Jul 12, 2009 at 04:55 PM berel Says:

#28..that saying is not a torah view...i've noticed many times your title is in sync with your views. by the way you always forget to add the 'y' after the 'o'.

33

 Jul 12, 2009 at 05:50 PM יהודי הוא לא ציוני Says:

רבי עמרם היה צדיק נשגב!

34

 Jul 12, 2009 at 05:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

didnt the zionists castrate him by kicking him repeatedly?

Was anyone held acoountable for such a despicable act?

35

 Jul 12, 2009 at 05:32 PM tzoorba Says:

Reply to #22  
Convert Says:

His second wife (Ruth) was a convert. For his his first wife's (from the Weber family) funeral he refused to go to Har Hamunuchos claiming he did not want to leave Yerushalim and he considered Har HaMeenuchos outside of Yerushalayim.

To marry Ruth he went to Bnei Brak. The reason he married her was because according to Shulchan Aruch he could only marry a giyores. This was as a result of the specail "treatment" he received from the zionisr police. (Story from his grandson)

The Eida Hachreidas doesn't accept converts so they would not marry them. Consequently he went to Bnai Brak.

Rabbi Blau z"l was a Cohen and therefore forbidden to marry a Giyores. However, since he was a ptzua daca, he was allowed to marry a giyores even though he was a Cohen.

36

 Jul 12, 2009 at 06:41 PM #31 Says:

Except my great grandfather who was killed in Iraq by his next door neighbor, best friend with a sharp knife in the early 1920's.
LIES and MORE LIES, pogroms and fatal attacks Arabs vs. Jews since the 16th century..

37

 Jul 12, 2009 at 05:13 PM Life with arabs Says:

It is possible that before the medina was thought of they might have lived in peace. However the facts today have drastically changed.

However if we read the many stories of Jart the turn of the last century we will see that the Jews in Isreal suffered terribly

Should chas veshalom the arabs take over they will not not save one Jew not even Moshe Hirsh, Friedman from Austria or the mayor of Kiryas Yoel.

Once permitted to go on a rampage they will try to do (chas veshalom) as much harm as possible. Anyone who thinks differently is fooling themselves.

38

 Jul 12, 2009 at 05:06 PM Eida - Geirrim Says:

Reply to #29  
Rochel Says:

"The Eida Hachreidas doesn't accept converts so they would not marry them. Consequently he went to Bnai Brak.”
Since when, and why ?

Why they don't accept you have to ask them. To Shimon (#25) the fact remains that they don't do conversions. Saying they do will not help.

They felt the Reb Amram should not marry a convert. He wrote them that ShulchanAruch states one must marry (Een Hoezer 1-8) and since he had no other choice (See above 5-1) he married a convert.

39

 Jul 12, 2009 at 07:16 PM shimon Says:

Reply to #37  
Life with arabs Says:

It is possible that before the medina was thought of they might have lived in peace. However the facts today have drastically changed.

However if we read the many stories of Jart the turn of the last century we will see that the Jews in Isreal suffered terribly

Should chas veshalom the arabs take over they will not not save one Jew not even Moshe Hirsh, Friedman from Austria or the mayor of Kiryas Yoel.

Once permitted to go on a rampage they will try to do (chas veshalom) as much harm as possible. Anyone who thinks differently is fooling themselves.

At various times, Jews in Muslim lands were able to live in relative peace and thrive culturally and economically. The position of the Jews was never secure, however, and changes in the political or social climate would often lead to persecution, violence and death. Jews were generally viewed with contempt by their Muslim neighbors; peaceful coexistence between the two groups involved the subordination and degradation of the Jews.

When Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results: On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.(6)

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.(7)

Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).

From here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

40

 Jul 12, 2009 at 07:15 PM shimon Says:

Reply to #37  
Life with arabs Says:

It is possible that before the medina was thought of they might have lived in peace. However the facts today have drastically changed.

However if we read the many stories of Jart the turn of the last century we will see that the Jews in Isreal suffered terribly

Should chas veshalom the arabs take over they will not not save one Jew not even Moshe Hirsh, Friedman from Austria or the mayor of Kiryas Yoel.

Once permitted to go on a rampage they will try to do (chas veshalom) as much harm as possible. Anyone who thinks differently is fooling themselves.

Sure, nothing compares to Golus Edom with its Auschwitz, but Golus Yishmael wasn't a summer camp either.

Blaming the medina (1948) dosn't explain why there were so many pogroms in the Moslim world in the first half of the century. And even if you start from the zionist movement in Europe (end of 19th century), you can hardly explain the terrible for example the Damascus pogrom of 1840. Between this and the beginnings of political zionism there were many others: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jaffa (1876), Jerusalem (1847, 1870 and 1895), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901-02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901-07), Port Said (1903, 1908), and Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891).

41

 Jul 12, 2009 at 07:01 PM shimon Says:

Reply to #38  
Eida - Geirrim Says:

Why they don't accept you have to ask them. To Shimon (#25) the fact remains that they don't do conversions. Saying they do will not help.

They felt the Reb Amram should not marry a convert. He wrote them that ShulchanAruch states one must marry (Een Hoezer 1-8) and since he had no other choice (See above 5-1) he married a convert.

Sorry but saying it is a "fact" won't help either. I personaly know at least two people who underwent a giur at the Badatz. With all the details there is little chance they are both lying, one of them has a kesher with Reb Moshe Sternbuch, whom I know personally.

42

 Jul 12, 2009 at 07:00 PM Blau family Cohen Says:

Reply to #35  
tzoorba Says:

Rabbi Blau z"l was a Cohen and therefore forbidden to marry a Giyores. However, since he was a ptzua daca, he was allowed to marry a giyores even though he was a Cohen.

Anyone who knows the Blau family knows that they are not Kohanim.

43

 Jul 12, 2009 at 10:44 PM Historian Says:

Reply to #36  
#31 Says:

Except my great grandfather who was killed in Iraq by his next door neighbor, best friend with a sharp knife in the early 1920's.
LIES and MORE LIES, pogroms and fatal attacks Arabs vs. Jews since the 16th century..

I feel sorry that you Great grandfather was killed. The articles point was that as a result of the nationalist aspirations of the Zionists, the Arabs felt threatened, and this aroused their animosity.
Your great grandfather was killed in the early 1920's. The Balfour Declaration was dated November 2, 1917.

44

 Jul 12, 2009 at 10:44 PM Historian Says:

Reply to #36  
#31 Says:

Except my great grandfather who was killed in Iraq by his next door neighbor, best friend with a sharp knife in the early 1920's.
LIES and MORE LIES, pogroms and fatal attacks Arabs vs. Jews since the 16th century..

I feel sorry that you Great grandfather was killed. The articles point was that as a result of the nationalist aspirations of the Zionists, the Arabs felt threatened, and this aroused their animosity.
Your great grandfather was killed in the early 1920's. The Balfour Declaration was dated November 2, 1917.

45

 Jul 13, 2009 at 01:09 AM derekpm Says:

Rather interesting. Has few times re-read for this purpose to remember. Thanks for interesting article. Waiting for trackback

46

 Jul 13, 2009 at 01:06 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #31  
think a little Says:

so why did the Jews live in relative peace in all the arab countries before the state of israel was established??? This fellow makes good sense try and read his words with an open mind.

They didn't. The Jewish experience in dar-al-Islam was no better than it was in Christendom. In both there were places and times of peace and prosperity, and places and times of terrible persecution.

47

 Jul 13, 2009 at 01:04 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #30  
Anonymous Says:

Rebbetzin Ruth Bloy AH did not have a shameful past at all; if she was indeed an actress she was not involved in anything scandalous. She was in the French resistance and then had a successful business which suffered a reversal thanks to a dishonest partner.

Um, "actress" is a polite term for what she did when she was a young woman. But so what? Who knows what Shmaya and Avtalyon did before they converted? Yisro served AZ. It makes no difference.

48

 Jul 13, 2009 at 12:35 AM Shmuel Says:

i find it outrageous that we even have the chutzpah to discuss his marriage..as for jews who wont marry converts only because they are converts, they are probably comitting a serious sin..it says ger loh tonah ki gerim heyitem b-erets mizrayim"
God bless him for his leadership and example in marrying a convert..

unfortunately, i disagree with him philosophically about zionism and there is a religious zionist movement that his well grounded halachically. we as religious jews can have disagreements that sanctify the Almights name...eiloo v'eiloo divrei elokim chaim....i dont agree with nor follow rabbi blau but i do resprct him...i also respect the many secular jews that do for our jewish nation in multiple capacities both in and out of israel...sinat hinam destoyed the second temple..some rabbis state that ahavat hinam will rebuild it.

49

 Jul 13, 2009 at 04:16 AM shmily Says:

article in time magazine about him. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,834305,00.html

50

 Jul 13, 2009 at 03:52 AM Tsuki kadera Says:

Its not new. The family printed 72pages of this 2 years ago. I have it,

51

 Jul 13, 2009 at 08:34 AM Rochel Says:

Reply to #49  
shmily Says:

article in time magazine about him. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,834305,00.html

wow :-( I am shocked, it's horrible how people treated him and her about their decision to get married

52

 Jul 13, 2009 at 12:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
Convert Says:

His second wife (Ruth) was a convert. For his his first wife's (from the Weber family) funeral he refused to go to Har Hamunuchos claiming he did not want to leave Yerushalim and he considered Har HaMeenuchos outside of Yerushalayim.

To marry Ruth he went to Bnei Brak. The reason he married her was because according to Shulchan Aruch he could only marry a giyores. This was as a result of the specail "treatment" he received from the zionisr police. (Story from his grandson)

The Eida Hachreidas doesn't accept converts so they would not marry them. Consequently he went to Bnai Brak.

The Eida Ha Charedis issued a psak that Rabbi Blau should throw out his tenayim and refuse to marry the Frenchwoman. Being a gentleman, and not wanting to cause shame to a decent woman, he decided to leave Jerusalem rather than shame her.and renege on an agreement. It's not that the Eida Ha Chareidis doesn't "accept" converts (whatever that means), they just turned the whole shidduch into a political issue and tried to use the power of the Bais Din to control and manipulate him, which he didn't fall for. Blau stood up to extraordinary social pressure for the honor and dignity of a foreign woman and I think that is commendable of him, especially since nowadays the whole concept of "chivalry" and "honor" and "loyalty" appear to have been discarded in Chareidishe circles, given the skyrocketing divorce rates.

By the way, she was never an actress, that is a Chareidi slur. She fought with the underground and then later went into business. There is no end to the fairy tales!

53

 Jul 13, 2009 at 12:07 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #48  
Shmuel Says:

i find it outrageous that we even have the chutzpah to discuss his marriage..as for jews who wont marry converts only because they are converts, they are probably comitting a serious sin..it says ger loh tonah ki gerim heyitem b-erets mizrayim"
God bless him for his leadership and example in marrying a convert..

unfortunately, i disagree with him philosophically about zionism and there is a religious zionist movement that his well grounded halachically. we as religious jews can have disagreements that sanctify the Almights name...eiloo v'eiloo divrei elokim chaim....i dont agree with nor follow rabbi blau but i do resprct him...i also respect the many secular jews that do for our jewish nation in multiple capacities both in and out of israel...sinat hinam destoyed the second temple..some rabbis state that ahavat hinam will rebuild it.

"Va'ahavtem es hager" doesn't mean one has to marry them! Remember that a ger is not "kehal hashem", which is precisely why a petzua daka or a mamzer is allowed to marry them, and a cohen is not. Had R Amram been allowed to marry into kehal hashem he would probably not have considered a giyores; but as a petzua daka he wasn't allowed to.

54

 Jul 13, 2009 at 12:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Milhouse Says:

Um, "actress" is a polite term for what she did when she was a young woman. But so what? Who knows what Shmaya and Avtalyon did before they converted? Yisro served AZ. It makes no difference.

Do you have personal knowledge about this? Care to share anything with your audience? If you weren't there and saw anything, then shut up.

55

 Jul 13, 2009 at 12:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #51  
Rochel Says:

wow :-( I am shocked, it's horrible how people treated him and her about their decision to get married

Shocked? He wanted a calm, quiet marrieage for his old age without all the massive craziness ,humongous crowds and bloody fights over money and inheritance. People knew he was being shrewd in choosing a single woman with no relatives, but they didn't want to let him get away with his plan, so they tried to force him to capitulate. He didn't fall for their bluff and did what a man is supposed to do: protect the honor of his intended. A timeless marriage lesson for all of us about the sanctity and dignity of marriage.

56

 Jul 13, 2009 at 01:40 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Rabbi Blau z'tz'l was either totally naive, or disingenuous, regarding the Turkish leader Djemal Pasha, who tried to expel all Jews from Jerusalem during World War II and did succeed in driving all Jews out of Jaffa. A New York Times article from October 8, 1915 reported refugees saying "Djemal Pasha has announced that he will extirpate Zionism root and branch and that not a single Jew will be allowed to re-enter Palestine."

57

 Jul 13, 2009 at 01:08 PM Shmuel Says:

Reply to #53  
Milhouse Says:

"Va'ahavtem es hager" doesn't mean one has to marry them! Remember that a ger is not "kehal hashem", which is precisely why a petzua daka or a mamzer is allowed to marry them, and a cohen is not. Had R Amram been allowed to marry into kehal hashem he would probably not have considered a giyores; but as a petzua daka he wasn't allowed to.

at the end of the day i am simply stating my understanding of the halacha.and that is one can not discriminate against the ger because he is a ger....one can marry whomever he or dhe chooses as long as it is halachaially viable

58

 Jul 13, 2009 at 03:59 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #35  
tzoorba Says:

Rabbi Blau z"l was a Cohen and therefore forbidden to marry a Giyores. However, since he was a ptzua daca, he was allowed to marry a giyores even though he was a Cohen.

This Petzuya Dakoh rumor although repeated a million times is mere hearsay. Could be its true, could be its not. I agree with Rochel; he had all the right to marry her. It is nobodies business but his.

It’s about time to knock this shallowness and stupidity out of our heads. Shemaye VeAvtalyon were Geirim, Rebbi Akiva was a Ger or Ben Gerim, Rebbi Meir was an Einikel of Titus HoRoshe, yet he married Berurye who if I recall was a sister of Rabbon Gamlial HaNosi.

Boaz was a Goal Hadam to Ruth from Moiyov, and who was their descendent, no less then Dovid Hamelech, and Moshiach Ben Dovid.

59

 Jul 13, 2009 at 04:44 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #52  
Anonymous Says:

The Eida Ha Charedis issued a psak that Rabbi Blau should throw out his tenayim and refuse to marry the Frenchwoman. Being a gentleman, and not wanting to cause shame to a decent woman, he decided to leave Jerusalem rather than shame her.and renege on an agreement. It's not that the Eida Ha Chareidis doesn't "accept" converts (whatever that means), they just turned the whole shidduch into a political issue and tried to use the power of the Bais Din to control and manipulate him, which he didn't fall for. Blau stood up to extraordinary social pressure for the honor and dignity of a foreign woman and I think that is commendable of him, especially since nowadays the whole concept of "chivalry" and "honor" and "loyalty" appear to have been discarded in Chareidishe circles, given the skyrocketing divorce rates.

By the way, she was never an actress, that is a Chareidi slur. She fought with the underground and then later went into business. There is no end to the fairy tales!

After her Giyur she wasn't anymore a "French-woman". They objected because "Ess Past Nisht". He, on the other hand felt an Hakoras Hatov, and IMO did the RIGHT thing.

I am not a Kanohi, and I think that both sides have it wrong. The anti-Zionists are with their heads in the sand, and they would like to rewrite history, and would want to believe that all the problems STARTED when the Zionists arrived. Not true, the Harigas in Tzfas and Teverya in the eighteenth century (Lemisporom) is well known.

The Zionists on the other hand like to believe that nothing changed from befor Belfour and after Belfour. Not true again. If things were bad, then it got much worse after Belfour where now any Jew was prey to be murdered.

Belfour is NOT an excuse for Arabs to murder Jews, and those helping them to justify it are IMO Rishoyim. The Arabs are NOT murdering Jews because of the Sholosh Shevuos. They don’t learn Gemora to the best of my knowledge, nor are they bound to it. The Saar Shel Yismoel IS bound not to persecute the Jews too harshly.

60

 Jul 13, 2009 at 06:32 PM Anonymous Says:

"Actress is the polite word for it." Yes, textile merchant is the correct term. The rest is just slander.

"The Arabs are NOT murdering Jews because of the Sholosh Shevuos. They don’t learn Gemora to the best of my knowledge"

Shir HaShirim Rabbah 2:9 says 5 times the oaths have been violated, and five times it lead to massacre. The goyim that did the massacres then also didn't learn gemorah.

61

 Jul 13, 2009 at 06:59 PM Set the record straight Says:

Reply to #58  
Askupeh Says:

This Petzuya Dakoh rumor although repeated a million times is mere hearsay. Could be its true, could be its not. I agree with Rochel; he had all the right to marry her. It is nobodies business but his.

It’s about time to knock this shallowness and stupidity out of our heads. Shemaye VeAvtalyon were Geirim, Rebbi Akiva was a Ger or Ben Gerim, Rebbi Meir was an Einikel of Titus HoRoshe, yet he married Berurye who if I recall was a sister of Rabbon Gamlial HaNosi.

Boaz was a Goal Hadam to Ruth from Moiyov, and who was their descendent, no less then Dovid Hamelech, and Moshiach Ben Dovid.

1. Reb akiva was a "ben" geirim
2. Reb meir was as einekel from Nero not titus. An interesting anecdote to point out: The gemara says that Nero was megayar himself and reb meir was his descendant. Roman history it is transcribed that Nero at the end of his days got "crazy" and was therefore deposed.
3. I think that you are mistaken with Ima Shalom the wife of rab eliezer hagodol who was the sister of rabbon gamliel

62

 Jul 14, 2009 at 11:55 AM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #61  
Set the record straight Says:

1. Reb akiva was a "ben" geirim
2. Reb meir was as einekel from Nero not titus. An interesting anecdote to point out: The gemara says that Nero was megayar himself and reb meir was his descendant. Roman history it is transcribed that Nero at the end of his days got "crazy" and was therefore deposed.
3. I think that you are mistaken with Ima Shalom the wife of rab eliezer hagodol who was the sister of rabbon gamliel

Regarding Rebbi Akiva if he was a Ger himself or a Ben Geirim, is a Machloikas. You are right about Rebbi Meir that he was a descendent of Nero not Titus S"T. According to all secular historians Nero ended his reign in 68 C.E. the year of the Churban. There is an historical account that he was killed, but there is also an historical account that he "vanished". The Gemora is a Vadei and historical legends written hundred of years after it took place, is at best a "Shemoh", Ve'ein Sofek Motzi Midei Vadei. Now regarding Beruriah you are also correct, but my point still stands because she was the daughter of Rebbi Hananiah ben Teradion, one of the Asoroh Harigei Malchus.

#60, There are many opinions regarding the Sholosh Shevuos, including the Avnei Neizer who considers it only as Agadeta. There is a very wide spectrum of opinions between one side of the spectrum which holds that the Medinah is the Hischalta Degeulah and is the Rotzon Haborah, to the other side of the spectrum which considers the Medinah as Kefirah. Anyone who digs himself in, into one way of thinking without leaving any leeway for other “Halachic” opinions is IMO a Poshita fool. Just like everything else is open to Ilu Ve’ilu Divrei Elokim Chaim, this issue is NO different.

BTW I’m not a Zionist but I never understood why some consider it Kefira Mamesh? Which of the 13 Ani Maamins don’t Zionists believe in? Anyone able to tackle this?

63

 Jul 14, 2009 at 12:09 PM Haim Says:

Arabs mentality was different then and Reb Amram zt"l is left with the good impression the arabs left on him then. Today arabs are on a world mission of Jihad and they will destroy and take anything on there way with out any consideration for rights or life until they take over the world. We must always be carful not to do CHILUL HASHEM and go out of our way to do KIDUCH HASHEM because it goes a long way. Israel is the greatest miracle that happened to the jewish people and should be protected with every necessary means, it is our only safe heaven, and because of it we are safe in the exile. I hope that Neturei Karta will wake up one day and understand that Ahavas Israel is the foundation of our Torah and pick the wright side of the fence. Am Israel Chai.

64

 Jun 09, 2015 at 07:50 AM 15bobover49 Says:

Reply to #35  
tzoorba Says:

Rabbi Blau z"l was a Cohen and therefore forbidden to marry a Giyores. However, since he was a ptzua daca, he was allowed to marry a giyores even though he was a Cohen.

He was NOT a kohen!

65

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