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Washington - Obama Compares Slavery To Holocaust |
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Jul 12, 2009 at 04:11 PM
News Source: AP
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President Obama speaks makes a speech at the Cape Coast Castle in Ghana. He said it reminded him of the former concentration camp he toured in Germany, of the capacity of human beings to commit great evil.
Obama compared the legacy of slavery to the history of the Holocaust. He said both are horrible parts of history but shouldn't be ignored. He says in a CNN interview that their lessons must never be forgotten.
Obama returned to Washington early Sunday morning from a trip that took him to Russia, Italy and Ghana. It was the first trip to sub-Saharan Africa for America's first black president.
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Obama and his family visited a West African castle where traders once shipped slaves to the New World.
Obama was interviewed Saturday for CNN's "Anderson Cooper: 360." A brief excerpt was released on Sunday.
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Read Comments (82) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 12, 2009 at 04:53 PM kinsley the chochem Says:
Comparing the extermination of 6,ooo,ooo men women and children without making a distinction. As to their severity is a sinful comparison. Typical of most goyim? But for president to do is especially insensitive! A Goy bleibt a Goy!!!
2
Jul 12, 2009 at 04:51 PM yosse nathan Says:
for slavery there was a cival war in the united states. for the Holocaust there was no cival war . the united states tried to block entry
3
Jul 12, 2009 at 04:29 PM scooter Says:
Nice.... Comparing 6 Million Jews Killed To...
4
Jul 12, 2009 at 04:21 PM american Says:
narishkeiten!!!!!!!!!!!1
5
Jul 12, 2009 at 05:58 PM Eli Says:
“ for slavery there was a cival war in the united states. for the Holocaust there was no cival war . the united states tried to block entry ”
I seem to remember something about a WW2. And while that of course was not directly about the Holocaust, neither was the Civil War directly about slavery.
6
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:07 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Nice.... Comparing 6 Million Jews Killed To... ”
What's the problem with comparing 6 million Jews to millions of of Africans who suffered and died as the result of slavery overy the centuries? Both were horrible atrocities that demonstrate man's inhumanity to man.
7
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:05 PM Anonymous Says:
Millions and millions were also killed as a result of slavery in the Americas, and many were killed on the long and difficult voyages that were part of the slave trade. Another similarity is the role of racism in both atrocities.
8
Jul 12, 2009 at 05:50 PM Anonymous Says:
oiy oiy oiybama,is there no end to your gaffes and plain down right embarrassing/dangerous comments?
9
Jul 12, 2009 at 05:30 PM Gefilte Fish Says:
just wondering why I don't see any slavery denyers...
10
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:15 PM Anonymous Says:
Both episodes were a black mark on humanity, however there is no way we could or should equate the Holocausts to slavery. The Holocaust will stand by itself as a monument to evil, which could manifest as humans.
11
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:12 PM Anonymous Says:
No comparison!
12
Jul 12, 2009 at 05:07 PM Babishka Says:
Obama is not a descendant of slaves--but he is a descendant of slave owners.
13
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:25 PM Anonymous Says:
The article doesn't quote Obama so it's hard to know exactly what he said. According to the article " He said both are horrible parts of history but shouldn't be ignored . . that their lessons must never be forgotten." For all of you critics, are you disageeing that both are horrible and shouldn't be ignored or forgotten?
14
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:25 PM A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have Says:
Mr Osama,
How dare you!! There is no comparison. The outright murder of 6 million Jews cannot be compared to the slave trade (incidentally much of it brought on by the tribal leaders in Africa). Hitler yemach sh'mo wanted the Jews dead. Slave traders wanted them alive. You continue to have your own version of history and to be quite honest its really getting on the nerves of people who voted for you (I was NOT one of them!)! Keep it up bec 2010 is looking easier and easier as you and Biden open your mouths.
15
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:46 PM Avrohom Abba Says:
Would someone please ask the smartest historian of all, about this?
Madjob certainly will tell you that there were no slaves in America. He probably will start a drawing campaign in Iran to see who will win with the best picture, showing how the whole fake slavery of blacks was just a trick by the Africans, who wanted to hide that they were selling their own people to the Arabs, who then sold them to the Americans. It is all just a big fake rumor. No such thing as slavery. Ask Madjob, Oh, I mean Ahmadinjad.
You can even ask Rahm Emanuel. We all know who he is. He is Mr. Obama's puppet who enjoys the title of "Chief of Staff." Therefore, he is willing to let Obama say, "Do you see everyone? I even have a Jew as my chief of staff."
16
Jul 12, 2009 at 05:13 PM mockery Says:
“ narishkeiten!!!!!!!!!!!1 ”
IT has become very fashionable to compare everything to the HOLOCASUT. It does two things it brings out their point it also cheapens the situation unfortunately. LO Alanu. The one that riled me the most was AL GORES comment saying theose who opposed climate change is like taking part of the holocaust something to that effect. It is worse it is becomming a game and a mockery at best. How very sad.
17
Jul 12, 2009 at 05:12 PM Anonymous Says:
Both episodes were a black mark on humanity, however there is no way we could or should equate the Holocausts to slavery. The Holocaust will stand by itself as a monument to evil, which could manifest as humans.
18
Jul 12, 2009 at 05:08 PM Dave Says:
“ for slavery there was a cival war in the united states. for the Holocaust there was no cival war . the united states tried to block entry ”
That's why the United States took no action against Hitler, absolutely. Left it all up to England and Russia.
Wait.
19
Jul 12, 2009 at 07:28 PM berel Says:
does anybody happen to know if slaves were ,put into ovens alive, lampshades made out of their skin, made to march in freezing bitter cold miles and miles ,slept in sub human conditions en masse, given moldy bread, cement for soup etc etc etc 10's and 10's of 100rd's pf thousands pressed into 'showers' to be GASSED??? the nerve of this ...to compare slavery to holocoaust . slaver was a fact of civilizastion all over the globe for centuries involving all races not only in the colonies, and not only africans
20
Jul 12, 2009 at 07:20 PM anonymous Says:
“ Both episodes were a black mark on humanity, however there is no way we could or should equate the Holocausts to slavery. The Holocaust will stand by itself as a monument to evil, which could manifest as humans. ”
As a survivor of 4 years of concentration camp I must say that in brevity you have summarized it excellently. Yes the ability of all those surrogate nations who were eager helpers of the Nazis in the extermination of Jews they made a fabulous comeback. Latvia, Lithuania, Ukrainia, and Croatia major players in the murder of Jews today have seats in the U.N.
21
Jul 12, 2009 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:
Obama is stam an idiot and it's just now becoming aperent during the election his staff wouldent let him open his mouth with out there aprooval but now it's starting to come out and I think people are starting to notice and are regreting voting for him in the first place and no I don't meen the left wingers and liberal self hating Jews nothing will change them they agree with evrey word they probbely thing the Shoah was our own foult
22
Jul 12, 2009 at 07:02 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Would someone please ask the smartest historian of all, about this?
Madjob certainly will tell you that there were no slaves in America. He probably will start a drawing campaign in Iran to see who will win with the best picture, showing how the whole fake slavery of blacks was just a trick by the Africans, who wanted to hide that they were selling their own people to the Arabs, who then sold them to the Americans. It is all just a big fake rumor. No such thing as slavery. Ask Madjob, Oh, I mean Ahmadinjad.
You can even ask Rahm Emanuel. We all know who he is. He is Mr. Obama's puppet who enjoys the title of "Chief of Staff." Therefore, he is willing to let Obama say, "Do you see everyone? I even have a Jew as my chief of staff." ”
You are totally wrong to minimize slavery, and making a joke out of it. How should a decedent of the Slaves feel when the read your callous portrayal, of the sad episode.
23
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:58 PM Anonymous Says:
I agree that analogies to the Holocaust are way over used and waters down and diminishes the pure and massive evil of the holocaust. We even see jews do this when they compare police in Israel to Nazis. However, I think a lot of people here are over-reacting. There are commonalities between the Holocaust and slavery in the U.S. In both, millions were victimized and dehumanized because of their race and subject to unbelievable horrors and brutality. There are few things that share similarities to the Holocaust, but the massive slavery in America and the Carribean for hundreds of years is among them. Notice I didn't say the same, just similarities. I think that is all Obama was saying.
24
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:58 PM anonymous Says:
“ What's the problem with comparing 6 million Jews to millions of of Africans who suffered and died as the result of slavery overy the centuries? Both were horrible atrocities that demonstrate man's inhumanity to man. ”
The is no comparison. African children were not thrown in gas chambers or had the heads smashed against cement. No African stood on a selection and if he did not pass marched into a gas chambers. The destruction of the European Jewry involved every German agency, the lawyers, medical society, courts, military and special troops purposely organized to kill Jews the Einsatztruppen. Those who make the comparison don't understand what happened in Europe or urposely try to minimize that horrible slaughter
25
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:55 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Would someone please ask the smartest historian of all, about this?
Madjob certainly will tell you that there were no slaves in America. He probably will start a drawing campaign in Iran to see who will win with the best picture, showing how the whole fake slavery of blacks was just a trick by the Africans, who wanted to hide that they were selling their own people to the Arabs, who then sold them to the Americans. It is all just a big fake rumor. No such thing as slavery. Ask Madjob, Oh, I mean Ahmadinjad.
You can even ask Rahm Emanuel. We all know who he is. He is Mr. Obama's puppet who enjoys the title of "Chief of Staff." Therefore, he is willing to let Obama say, "Do you see everyone? I even have a Jew as my chief of staff." ”
you are way out there, at the moon.
26
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:55 PM Anonymous Says:
"The outright murder of 6 million Jews cannot be compared to the slave trade"
There were likely more than 12 million Africans shipped as slaves to the Americas from the 16th through 19th centuries. Should we now whine about not comparing the Holocaust to the sheer number of 12 million African slaves? It has nothing to do with the number and everything to do with your own desire to win the title of most-suffered.
27
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:52 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Mr Osama,
How dare you!! There is no comparison. The outright murder of 6 million Jews cannot be compared to the slave trade (incidentally much of it brought on by the tribal leaders in Africa). Hitler yemach sh'mo wanted the Jews dead. Slave traders wanted them alive. You continue to have your own version of history and to be quite honest its really getting on the nerves of people who voted for you (I was NOT one of them!)! Keep it up bec 2010 is looking easier and easier as you and Biden open your mouths. ”
Instead of just pointing out that we should not equate slavery to the holocaust, you decided to disparage the President by name calling, and your true colors came out. You just hate the President regardless what he did or dint say. Go take a chill pill, Laxpro might help you it does wonder for people.
28
Jul 12, 2009 at 06:49 PM Anonymous Says:
"The article doesn't quote Obama so it's hard to know exactly what he said. According to the article " He said both are horrible parts of history but shouldn't be ignored . . that their lessons must never be forgotten." For all of you critics, are you disageeing that both are horrible and shouldn't be ignored or forgotten?"
Oy vey! We suffered the most and no one should compare something else to the holocaust. It's the 11th commandment, in case you missed it. Lehavdil eleph alphei havdolos it's like saying someone non-Jewish was smart like the rambam when we all know he was the thinkiest person ever, ever, ever. That's the 12th commandment.
29
Jul 12, 2009 at 08:19 PM Anonymous Says:
I am embarrassed by many of the remarks on this post.
Do any posters want to say that the SLAVE TRADE was not a horrible part of history? The terrible depravities that were perpetrated upon the Black community were horrendous!
Obama (who I generally don't support) was not making a "my Daddy is stronger than your Daddy statement."
Bottom-line, I *wonder* how many here are fueled by racist ideology.
30
Jul 12, 2009 at 08:40 PM Anonymous Says:
Did anyone actually listen to what Obama SAID?? After visiting a place in Ghana where tens of thousands of slaves were held for shipment and many thousands died in hellish conditions, he said it was REMINISCENT of his visit to Buchenwald. That's not a comparison but an intelligent and appropriate observation.
31
Jul 12, 2009 at 10:10 PM Charlie Hall Says:
The interview is scheduled to be broadcase at 10pm Eastern Time Monday night. Until then, it might behoove us to wait to see exactly what he said rather than relying on second hand reports!
In the mean time, we can read his inspiring words spoken to the Ghana parliament:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-to-the-Ghanaian-Parliament/
32
Jul 12, 2009 at 09:59 PM esther Says:
“ Did anyone actually listen to what Obama SAID?? After visiting a place in Ghana where tens of thousands of slaves were held for shipment and many thousands died in hellish conditions, he said it was REMINISCENT of his visit to Buchenwald. That's not a comparison but an intelligent and appropriate observation. ”
totally agree. many thousands of africans died in the cramped and filth-ridden slave ships alone.it doesn't diminish the recognition of jewish suffering when we acknowledge that others suffered as well.
33
Jul 12, 2009 at 09:54 PM Anonymous Says:
Its trivializing the Holocaust. Slavery was an institution practiced all over the world, even in Europe, that is where the word Slav comes from.
One can emphatise with the evils of slavery without equating it to Genocide.
THat has nothing to do with racism. Jews were also sold into slavery, especially those fleeing the Spanish Inquisition. But those Jews had a chance to survive and many were ransomed. The descendants of slaves are alive and thriving- while the descendants of the six million do not exist.
34
Jul 12, 2009 at 09:34 PM Anonymous Says:
As someone who lost most of his family in the Shoah, I was not offended by the President's remarks in the context they were made. There was no intent to trivialize the shoh or make a moral equivalence. We have reached the point where if C'v a politican uses the word holocaust in the same paragraph as any other historical event the chorus of outrage only gets louder without any effort to understand the context.
35
Jul 12, 2009 at 09:22 PM Dov Says:
You are insensitive racists - you are the only ones to suffer. Theirs was different but terrible
36
Jul 12, 2009 at 10:53 PM Charlie Hall Says:
The little bit of research I have been able to do in the last half hour indicate that the estimates of the number of deaths as a direct result of the transatlantic slave "trade" are comparable to, and probably greater than, number of Jews who died in the Shoah, and the slave "trade" was equally racist. There are many differences, of course, but we should understand that the slave "trade" was a unique horror that should never be minimized.
37
Jul 12, 2009 at 11:56 PM Busha Says:
actually it is a much more appropriate comparison than the one secretary of state condi rice made last year when she dared to compare the "suffering" of the arabs in gaza at the hands of the "opressive israelis" the the discrimination of blacks she witnessed growing up in the rural south (and she was a spoiled little rich girl) the chutzpah of rice to compare the suffering of gaza palestinians were treated by the israelis to the way poor blacks were treated and discriminated in the south. But of course that for some reason didnt bother anybody, least not the Rush Limaugh robots who think that bushies cant do no wrong. (can you imagine the uproar and outcry if Obama or Clinton did what rice said?)
So now Obama makes a very appropriate correlation , and people think its bad?
How embarassing.
38
Jul 12, 2009 at 11:37 PM PMO Says:
“ does anybody happen to know if slaves were ,put into ovens alive, lampshades made out of their skin, made to march in freezing bitter cold miles and miles ,slept in sub human conditions en masse, given moldy bread, cement for soup etc etc etc 10's and 10's of 100rd's pf thousands pressed into 'showers' to be GASSED??? the nerve of this ...to compare slavery to holocoaust . slaver was a fact of civilizastion all over the globe for centuries involving all races not only in the colonies, and not only africans ”
As for being put into ovens alive, probably not.
However, marching in freezing weather for miles and miles? Yes.
Sleeping in sub-human conditions? Yes.
Given cold moldy bread? Yes... if they were lucky.
Did many slaves die along the way? Yes.
Were any who resisted killed? Yes... immediately.
Were they forced to work chained together so they could not escape? Yes.
Were they intentionally kept illiterate so they could not help themselves legally? Yes.
Were the women often raped? Yes.
Were the women who got pregnant from the rape killed to keep anyone from finding out about the master's habit of raping slaves? YES.
While not exactly the same thing, they both go down as inhuman acts done by human beings which should NEVER be forgotten.
Nowhere did Obama try to equate the two as being "equally" barbaric. His point was that these inhuman acts should be taught in schools such that we never repeat those disgusting parts of human history.
Anything else that any of you are reading into this story is purely from your own imagination fueled by your hatred of anything and everything that Obama says or does.
39
Jul 13, 2009 at 12:52 AM Milhouse Says:
“ The little bit of research I have been able to do in the last half hour indicate that the estimates of the number of deaths as a direct result of the transatlantic slave "trade" are comparable to, and probably greater than, number of Jews who died in the Shoah, and the slave "trade" was equally racist. There are many differences, of course, but we should understand that the slave "trade" was a unique horror that should never be minimized.
”
The slave traders found a product that was legally on sale in one country, and for which there was a demand in another country, so they took advantage of the situation. What was wrong with that? Slavery was a recognised part of every legal system ever invented, including the Torah's, since the creation of the world; should they have refrained from buying and selling just because some rabblerouser in England woke up one morning and decided that it was wrong?
Nor was the slave trade in any way racist; Afrrica was merely where slaves were to be had. If there were a source for white slaves, and work for which they were suited, the traders would have carried those too. But white slaves weren't considered capable of working in the tropical plantations without dying of malaria and other diseases, and in any case the only source for white slaves was North Africa, where the traders were afraid to go for fear they'd be enslaved themselves.
How can that compare with the Nazis' crime, which they KNEW was wrong, and which has never been condoned in history: deliberately wiping out a nation that had never harmed theirs, had no designs on theirs, and had been perfectly well-disposed to theirs?
Of course we should bear in mind that Obama is probably descended from slavers who sold millions of their fellow-Africans, though more likely their customers were in Zanzibar and Arabia rather than America. One thing is almost certain - he is NOT (as that idiot Patterson claimed) descended from slaves.
40
Jul 13, 2009 at 12:18 AM kingsley the chuchem Says:
#7 and #36 Mr. charlie Hall- There is no doubt that Both were Holocausts (which jews do not have a monopoly on the term!), and millions have been starved and killed in tribal wars in Africa. In the Americas , however, there were not a deliberate attempt to wipe out an entire nation from the face of the earth, whom had one thing in common! They were Jews ! and most of the world assisted the Nazis in a modern age of the 1930-1945 of a so called civilizing world after the Industrial revolution. . gERMANY THE MOST INTELLECTUAL AND INDUSTRIAL Nation in the world took up the ART of Mass Extermination of Millions , not to sell them as slaves but burn and gas everyone of them two death! There is no moral equivalency to both the goal and actions of both these vastly different Holocausts.
iN CONTRAST SLAVERY WAS BUSINESS AND MANY DIED IN TRANSIT BUT WERE NOT PUT INTO OVENS AND GASSED TO DEATH DELIBERATELY.
tHE iSRAELI LEFTISTS (todays Nazis!!)CARE MORE ABOUT THE iSLAMIC MURDERERS THAN THE CHILDREN BEING BOMBED IN sDEROT. iF pRESIDENT oBAMA MEANT TO SAY "BOTH ARE SORTS OF hOLOCAUSTS" THERE IS nOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.. bUT THEY WERE NOT EQIVOCAL IN PURPOSE OR IN THE ATROCITIES COMMITEED THOUGH BOTH WERE EQUALLY TERRIBLE!
41
Jul 13, 2009 at 06:14 AM FAL Says:
I am sick of everyone comparing everything to the holocaust. These same people, if they had been around at that time, would not have been shocked by what was going on in Europe and would most probably would have done NOTHING to help the Jews. Aside from that, the main difference is that the Jews DID NOT inflict the holocaust on other Jews. African blacks DID round up and sell other blacks into slavery.
42
Jul 13, 2009 at 04:55 AM Rochel Says:
Obama and other people didn't try to compare Shoah and Slavery in facts, actions and consequences, but as both horrible part of history to be REMEMBERED, especially I think in Amercian society for the slavery part and holocaust survivors who emigrated to the USA. something to teach in class, and I agree it is something important to do. There is an international day for the abolition of slavery.
I think it's really wrong to dare compare the details of how the nazis organized their final solution and how they did kill people to what the whites did to the slaves.
Each story is horrible and slaves did suffer a lot, just like we shouldn't forget we were slaves once in mistrayim...
43
Jul 13, 2009 at 04:46 AM Rochel Says:
“ just wondering why I don't see any slavery denyers... ”
there are... They say that slaves were workers that they wanted to be hired to help the whites building their empire...
45
Jul 13, 2009 at 02:36 AM Anonymous Says:
“ #7 and #36 Mr. charlie Hall- There is no doubt that Both were Holocausts (which jews do not have a monopoly on the term!), and millions have been starved and killed in tribal wars in Africa. In the Americas , however, there were not a deliberate attempt to wipe out an entire nation from the face of the earth, whom had one thing in common! They were Jews ! and most of the world assisted the Nazis in a modern age of the 1930-1945 of a so called civilizing world after the Industrial revolution. . gERMANY THE MOST INTELLECTUAL AND INDUSTRIAL Nation in the world took up the ART of Mass Extermination of Millions , not to sell them as slaves but burn and gas everyone of them two death! There is no moral equivalency to both the goal and actions of both these vastly different Holocausts.
iN CONTRAST SLAVERY WAS BUSINESS AND MANY DIED IN TRANSIT BUT WERE NOT PUT INTO OVENS AND GASSED TO DEATH DELIBERATELY.
tHE iSRAELI LEFTISTS (todays Nazis!!)CARE MORE ABOUT THE iSLAMIC MURDERERS THAN THE CHILDREN BEING BOMBED IN sDEROT. iF pRESIDENT oBAMA MEANT TO SAY "BOTH ARE SORTS OF hOLOCAUSTS" THERE IS nOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.. bUT THEY WERE NOT EQIVOCAL IN PURPOSE OR IN THE ATROCITIES COMMITEED THOUGH BOTH WERE EQUALLY TERRIBLE! ”
Your claim is perfect when you stand in front of a judge and your prosecuting a slaver verses a nazi, but for the person who sufferd what difference does it make if the motive is business or racism all he knows is that he and his childeren and grand childeren are being turtured day in day out for the rest of he's life obama was standing in front of a nation who's grand parants were suffering of cource the motive of the evil doers at the holocoast are not to compaire to the slavers, we all know that, but our president was speaking to the sufferers which to them it doesn't make a difference do you get it? Thanks
46
Jul 13, 2009 at 07:49 AM Anonymous Says:
Congratulations! You get the racist moron award of today!
47
Jul 13, 2009 at 07:48 AM Rochel Says:
I can not believe what you said... how can you say "thanks to slavery", no one should ever reach freedom by slavery or torture or brainwashing or anything else that is inhuman. Maybe now african american decents of slaves are free, but it's a heavy heritage to carry and I personnaly can not accept this kind of comment. Would you say the same if your actual grandparents were slaves ? "Thanks to the oppressors, whatever my grandparents and parents lived, now I'm free, and it's what counts now"
48
Jul 13, 2009 at 08:05 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Its trivializing the Holocaust. Slavery was an institution practiced all over the world, even in Europe, that is where the word Slav comes from.
One can emphatise with the evils of slavery without equating it to Genocide.
THat has nothing to do with racism. Jews were also sold into slavery, especially those fleeing the Spanish Inquisition. But those Jews had a chance to survive and many were ransomed. The descendants of slaves are alive and thriving- while the descendants of the six million do not exist.
”
Another ridiculous comment. Just because some slaves survived and have descendants that does not make it ok or diminish the horrors. There are also Jewish holocaust survivors. Is the holocaust ok because many survivors who never would have come to the u.s. but for the holocaust now have millions of descendants thriving in the u.s. The fact that slavery has been too common over the millenia doesn't mean it is not horrific.
49
Jul 13, 2009 at 07:55 AM Mathematical Conclusion Says:
“ IT has become very fashionable to compare everything to the HOLOCASUT. It does two things it brings out their point it also cheapens the situation unfortunately. LO Alanu. The one that riled me the most was AL GORES comment saying theose who opposed climate change is like taking part of the holocaust something to that effect. It is worse it is becomming a game and a mockery at best. How very sad. ”
#16 Obama compared Slavery to the Holocaust. Al Gore compared Global Warming to the Holocaust. So that makes Slavery compared to Global Warming.
50
Jul 13, 2009 at 08:19 AM Anonymous Says:
There will be a time (I am afraid not in the so long distance) that we will say "we remember that yidden used to live peacfully in the USA. We better daven very hard for Moshiach to come, rather soon.
51
Jul 13, 2009 at 08:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“ As for being put into ovens alive, probably not.
However, marching in freezing weather for miles and miles? Yes.
Sleeping in sub-human conditions? Yes.
Given cold moldy bread? Yes... if they were lucky.
Did many slaves die along the way? Yes.
Were any who resisted killed? Yes... immediately.
Were they forced to work chained together so they could not escape? Yes.
Were they intentionally kept illiterate so they could not help themselves legally? Yes.
Were the women often raped? Yes.
Were the women who got pregnant from the rape killed to keep anyone from finding out about the master's habit of raping slaves? YES.
While not exactly the same thing, they both go down as inhuman acts done by human beings which should NEVER be forgotten.
Nowhere did Obama try to equate the two as being "equally" barbaric. His point was that these inhuman acts should be taught in schools such that we never repeat those disgusting parts of human history.
Anything else that any of you are reading into this story is purely from your own imagination fueled by your hatred of anything and everything that Obama says or does.
”
PMD I am not a Obama fan at all however your 100 percent right if you take every word of obama and squeez out the worst, then your not better from those who did it to bush
52
Jul 13, 2009 at 09:51 AM anonymous Says:
The comparison is faulty for another reason. During WWII the U.S. air force suffered heavy losses in bombing raids on the Ploesti oil fields in Romania. Auschwitz was much closer and there was no allied bombing of Birkenau. Hitler solved the Judenfrage" for the British, et al.
53
Jul 13, 2009 at 12:31 PM anonymous Says:
This faulty comparison stems from lack of knowledge what happened. The end of Jewish hatred did not end with WW II . After 1945 an organization "Die Spinne " and its goal of helping escape SS officer and war criminal to South America. The trip was to Geneva Switzerland where a travel permit by the Internation. Red Cross and then to Rome where a Priest at the Vatican facilitated their escape to Paraguay and Argentinia and that is how Mengele escaped.
54
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:52 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The is no comparison. African children were not thrown in gas chambers or had the heads smashed against cement. No African stood on a selection and if he did not pass marched into a gas chambers. The destruction of the European Jewry involved every German agency, the lawyers, medical society, courts, military and special troops purposely organized to kill Jews the Einsatztruppen. Those who make the comparison don't understand what happened in Europe or urposely try to minimize that horrible slaughter ”
And those like you sir, you arrogant pompous ignorant know it all, hae no clue or understanding obviously of american history or slavery, for if you did, you would not be making such a statement which shows just how poor the yeshiva education system really is.
55
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The is no comparison. African children were not thrown in gas chambers or had the heads smashed against cement. No African stood on a selection and if he did not pass marched into a gas chambers. The destruction of the European Jewry involved every German agency, the lawyers, medical society, courts, military and special troops purposely organized to kill Jews the Einsatztruppen. Those who make the comparison don't understand what happened in Europe or urposely try to minimize that horrible slaughter ”
actually they were. you obviously know nothing about american history. the way blacks were beaten, tourtured and killed was awfu.
56
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Mr Osama,
How dare you!! There is no comparison. The outright murder of 6 million Jews cannot be compared to the slave trade (incidentally much of it brought on by the tribal leaders in Africa). Hitler yemach sh'mo wanted the Jews dead. Slave traders wanted them alive. You continue to have your own version of history and to be quite honest its really getting on the nerves of people who voted for you (I was NOT one of them!)! Keep it up bec 2010 is looking easier and easier as you and Biden open your mouths. ”
as a child of survivors who grew up in a community full of them, i can honestly say that it is a very viable correlation. of course the scenarios and circumstances are vastly different, but for so many , a litany of reasons, the comparison is a very valid one.
57
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:
“ #16 Obama compared Slavery to the Holocaust. Al Gore compared Global Warming to the Holocaust. So that makes Slavery compared to Global Warming. ”
For pete's sake people. the jews were discriminated against, taken form the ir homes and sent to work camps and beaten. the blacks were discriminated agaisnt taken from their homes to be slave workers and beaten.
thats a pefrect comparison!
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Jul 13, 2009 at 11:41 AM kingsley the chuchem Says:
#45 As I said "both were Holocausts" and i concluded with "there was a difference in Purpose but 'both were EQUALLY TERRIBLE!!!!" I think that very clearly includes what u said about my sensitivity to the suffering just the circumstance were what I was addressing as I said "THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH WHAT THE PRESIDENT SAID"-- My conscience said that #45 and my feelings for all suffering is deep though one was a Holocaust of bondage and slavery and the other of "mass EXTERMINATION AND GASSING AND BURNING", which no one cared about!!!! In slavery all nations enjoyed that Holocaust of business.
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Jul 13, 2009 at 11:38 AM Charlie Hall Says:
“ The comparison is faulty for another reason. During WWII the U.S. air force suffered heavy losses in bombing raids on the Ploesti oil fields in Romania. Auschwitz was much closer and there was no allied bombing of Birkenau. Hitler solved the Judenfrage" for the British, et al. ”
Not true. The aircraft that bombed the Ploesti oil fields took off from Libya, not from Britain; Birkenau would have been further away. The mission did suffer huge casualties; only half the aircraft made it back to base. And unfortunately for the allies the damage to the oil fields was not severe.
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Jul 13, 2009 at 11:37 AM Rippin Pinchas Says:
“ As for being put into ovens alive, probably not.
However, marching in freezing weather for miles and miles? Yes.
Sleeping in sub-human conditions? Yes.
Given cold moldy bread? Yes... if they were lucky.
Did many slaves die along the way? Yes.
Were any who resisted killed? Yes... immediately.
Were they forced to work chained together so they could not escape? Yes.
Were they intentionally kept illiterate so they could not help themselves legally? Yes.
Were the women often raped? Yes.
Were the women who got pregnant from the rape killed to keep anyone from finding out about the master's habit of raping slaves? YES.
While not exactly the same thing, they both go down as inhuman acts done by human beings which should NEVER be forgotten.
Nowhere did Obama try to equate the two as being "equally" barbaric. His point was that these inhuman acts should be taught in schools such that we never repeat those disgusting parts of human history.
Anything else that any of you are reading into this story is purely from your own imagination fueled by your hatred of anything and everything that Obama says or does.
”
Interesting point, but why make the comparison? Every word that comes out of his mouth will be disected. He knows that. If he needs to wake the liberal Jews sensibilities, he does not need to say "Holocaust." He can say it was a tradgedy.
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Jul 13, 2009 at 01:39 PM anonymous Says:
“ And those like you sir, you arrogant pompous ignorant know it all, hae no clue or understanding obviously of american history or slavery, for if you did, you would not be making such a statement which shows just how poor the yeshiva education system really is. ”
In reply I will say to you sir that you mini intellect never read or heard testimony by those who had to go into the gas chambers [Aufraeumungskommando and Kanada] and pry loose children from their mothers who clawed their nails into their skin. Those in the gas chambers in their death throws became incontinent. Those from the Kanada had to remove gold fillings and teeth from the dead bodies later gold bars in Swiss vaults. They also had to search body cavities for hidden jewelry. Now midget intellect show a comparitive scene in the dreadful slave trade.
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Jul 13, 2009 at 01:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ For pete's sake people. the jews were discriminated against, taken form the ir homes and sent to work camps and beaten. the blacks were discriminated agaisnt taken from their homes to be slave workers and beaten.
thats a pefrect comparison! ”
Black African enslaved each other before during and after the trans-Atlantic slave trade. The only discrimination done was by black chiefs. Those they deemed unworthy of Africa were sold to europeans.
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Jul 13, 2009 at 01:05 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ The little bit of research I have been able to do in the last half hour indicate that the estimates of the number of deaths as a direct result of the transatlantic slave "trade" are comparable to, and probably greater than, number of Jews who died in the Shoah, and the slave "trade" was equally racist. There are many differences, of course, but we should understand that the slave "trade" was a unique horror that should never be minimized.
”
A couple of Items on slavery:
1. The major players in the trans-Atlantic slave trade were the Portugese, followed by the Spaniards. Most of their cargo was shipped to plantations in South America and the Caribbean.
2. North America (North of Mexico) accounted for between 5% and 10% of the total transAtlantic trade. The rest went to destinations noted above.
3. The largest slave market in the New World was Havana.
4. The Ottoman Empire also had an extensive slave trade but those slaves were primarily European. There were aproximately as many European and Arab slaves in the Ottoman Empire as there were African slaves in North America. John Smith, the leader of the Jamestown Colony and a slave owner was, himself. an escaped Turkish slave.
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Jul 13, 2009 at 12:54 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ The comparison is faulty for another reason. During WWII the U.S. air force suffered heavy losses in bombing raids on the Ploesti oil fields in Romania. Auschwitz was much closer and there was no allied bombing of Birkenau. Hitler solved the Judenfrage" for the British, et al. ”
Even worse. I have personally seen BDA (Bomb Damage Assessment) photos of U.S. Air Force raids on a petrochemical plant (probably I.G. Farben Y'S) in Oswiecem and have spoken with a former aircrew member who flew the raid. To reach the target they had to directly overfly Auschwitz-Birkenau. When I pointed this out to the former bomber pilot, he said that he did not know anything about it at the time.
65
Jul 13, 2009 at 03:16 PM Milhouse Says:
“ actually they were. you obviously know nothing about american history. the way blacks were beaten, tourtured and killed was awfu. ”
No, they weren't. Killing a slave was murder, just like killing a free person.
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Jul 13, 2009 at 02:53 PM anonymous Says:
“ "The outright murder of 6 million Jews cannot be compared to the slave trade"
There were likely more than 12 million Africans shipped as slaves to the Americas from the 16th through 19th centuries. Should we now whine about not comparing the Holocaust to the sheer number of 12 million African slaves? It has nothing to do with the number and everything to do with your own desire to win the title of most-suffered. ”
Nonsense it has nothing to do with the "title of most-suffered". It has to do with intent of exterminating a group of people namely "Jews" and immensity of this you don't understand. The persecution reached from the Baltic Sea[Riga} to the Mediterranean [Saloniki] and to the North Atlanctic France. It involved Germans, Austrians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Slovaks, Croatian and Muslims in Bosnia. Between 1939 and 1945 1 million Jewish children were gassed. Instead bringing forth all these malarkey maybe all these brilliant dwarfed intellects should listen to a recording made by the late Edward R. Murrow [no yeshiva education] and played on All Things Considered or NPR
67
Jul 13, 2009 at 03:21 PM Milhouse Says:
“ For pete's sake people. the jews were discriminated against, taken form the ir homes and sent to work camps and beaten. the blacks were discriminated agaisnt taken from their homes to be slave workers and beaten.
thats a pefrect comparison! ”
Who discriminated against blacks? The ones who took them from their homes and enslaved them? Those people were just as black as them! They were slaves according to the laws of their people. All Europeans did was buy a legal product that was on the market. The institution of slavery was recognised by the laws of every civilisation that ever existed, including the Torah's laws. Halacha to this day sees nothing wrong with slavery.
Meanwhile the Jews were rounded up and MURDERED, for no reason at all. There was nothing legal about it.
68
Jul 13, 2009 at 05:03 PM Asher Buchwalter Says:
Finally to all contributors who never been in concentration camp, never saw the flames of crematorium and never SS shooting Jews I have this to say. I was 15 years when I was deported from Vienna to the Ghetto Lodz [ from 5.000 Viennese 34 survived], then to Czenstochau and finally to Buchenwald. None of you and I mean literally none every faced a selektion where the SS commands right and left. Never any of you saw the terror in the eyes of small girl being commended to the left. Never any of you saw for one week I saw the Reichsautobahn trailers coming in the morning empty and leaving in the afternoon packed with old [some looking old] women, men and children for Treblinka. None of you a starving father and mother as I saw and unable to help. All you not so wise chachomim repeat books which you have read. I dread the day when there will nobody like myself to read all that rubbish and malarkey and able to respond. Shame for denigrating the horrible dead of children , women and men. Especially in the three weeks you should have more insight instead of repeating stale monologues
69
Jul 13, 2009 at 06:43 PM Anonymous Says:
"The slave traders found a product that was legally on sale in one country, and for which there was a demand in another country, so they took advantage of the situation. What was wrong with that? Slavery was a recognised part of every legal system ever invented, including the Torah's, since the creation of the world; should they have refrained from buying and selling just because some rabblerouser in England woke up one morning and decided that it was wrong?"
Milhouse, you've had more than your share of foolish posts before, but this one takes the cake. It was legal for the nazi guards to kick the crap out of Jews for fun, so they shouldn't kick the crap out of the Jews? Kicking the crap out of Jews has a long and illustrious history in the world having been practiced in many times and places. Perhaps had it been practiced even more often and formally legalized more often, it would equally qualify as appropriate in your warped mind?
70
Jul 13, 2009 at 07:06 PM Anonymous Says:
"Aside from that, the main difference is that the Jews DID NOT inflict the holocaust on other Jews. African blacks DID round up and sell other blacks into slavery."
That's the main difference, huh? Then I guess you lessen Nazi guilt by according to the level at which Jews collaborated with them? I suppose the Commandant at the camps where Jews policed other Jews are less evil? Other than your pathetic attempt at keeping the "most persecuted" crown, of what relevance is your point? If the Nazis actually paid off Israel for Jews to kill, would that make it less evil?
71
Jul 13, 2009 at 07:15 PM Anonymous Says:
"Halacha to this day sees nothing wrong with slavery.
Meanwhile the Jews were rounded up and MURDERED, for no reason at all. There was nothing legal about it."
Good. Halacha also sees nothing wrong with killing Amalekis and Nazi law saw nothing wrong with killing Jews. Go figure.
72
Jul 13, 2009 at 08:08 PM isaac Says:
“ What's the problem with comparing 6 million Jews to millions of of Africans who suffered and died as the result of slavery overy the centuries? Both were horrible atrocities that demonstrate man's inhumanity to man. ”
Ones's the wanton extermination of an entire race. Men, women and children. The eradication of a culture and the fanatical war against a religion. What are you comparing it to, you ignorant and stupid fool. If you are a jew then you are a sick person. If not, then I have a place for you to go...
73
Jul 14, 2009 at 03:38 AM esther Says:
“ Who discriminated against blacks? The ones who took them from their homes and enslaved them? Those people were just as black as them! They were slaves according to the laws of their people. All Europeans did was buy a legal product that was on the market. The institution of slavery was recognised by the laws of every civilisation that ever existed, including the Torah's laws. Halacha to this day sees nothing wrong with slavery.
Meanwhile the Jews were rounded up and MURDERED, for no reason at all. There was nothing legal about it. ”
there is no comparison as i'm sure you actually know,between the slavery of the torah and the cruel,barbaric slavery involving africans.we were also slaves in mitzrayim remember?was that ok because paroih said it was?do you actually believe what you wrote or do you simply enjoy controversy?
74
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:24 PM gevalt Says:
“ Finally to all contributors who never been in concentration camp, never saw the flames of crematorium and never SS shooting Jews I have this to say. I was 15 years when I was deported from Vienna to the Ghetto Lodz [ from 5.000 Viennese 34 survived], then to Czenstochau and finally to Buchenwald. None of you and I mean literally none every faced a selektion where the SS commands right and left. Never any of you saw the terror in the eyes of small girl being commended to the left. Never any of you saw for one week I saw the Reichsautobahn trailers coming in the morning empty and leaving in the afternoon packed with old [some looking old] women, men and children for Treblinka. None of you a starving father and mother as I saw and unable to help. All you not so wise chachomim repeat books which you have read. I dread the day when there will nobody like myself to read all that rubbish and malarkey and able to respond. Shame for denigrating the horrible dead of children , women and men. Especially in the three weeks you should have more insight instead of repeating stale monologues ”
its easy when there are no witnesses left to slavery (and only those who lived thrgouh the discrimination that followed)
they suffered horrible things to. we jews dont have an exclusive lock on suffering,.
75
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "Aside from that, the main difference is that the Jews DID NOT inflict the holocaust on other Jews. African blacks DID round up and sell other blacks into slavery."
That's the main difference, huh? Then I guess you lessen Nazi guilt by according to the level at which Jews collaborated with them? I suppose the Commandant at the camps where Jews policed other Jews are less evil? Other than your pathetic attempt at keeping the "most persecuted" crown, of what relevance is your point? If the Nazis actually paid off Israel for Jews to kill, would that make it less evil? ”
Riiight. blaming all of slavery on a few african slave traders is like blaming the entire holocaust on the Kapos. moron.
76
Jul 13, 2009 at 11:15 PM anonymous Says:
MILLHOUSE- Do U have an oppositional Personality disorder. I read Mr. Asher Buchwald #68 posting and although an old man I cried. My heart was broken.. It was an extermination of the so called enlightened western intellectual world. Slavery was not Million burnt , gassed and shot just sold for profit and abused for the most part.. The tragedy was for both but the sheer size and intent as well as the results are and forever will be quite demonstrably different. Hashem yinokem ess domom.
MILLHOUSE BE A MAN ND TELL MR #68 how u feel personaly about his comment. U have a big heart now let everyone know u have it for klal yisroel!
77
Jul 14, 2009 at 01:12 PM Milhouse Says:
“ there is no comparison as i'm sure you actually know,between the slavery of the torah and the cruel,barbaric slavery involving africans.we were also slaves in mitzrayim remember?was that ok because paroih said it was?do you actually believe what you wrote or do you simply enjoy controversy? ”
Really? There is no comparison? Go learn hilchos avodim in shulchon oruch and then come back and tell me that.
78
Jul 14, 2009 at 01:16 PM Milhouse Says:
“ "The slave traders found a product that was legally on sale in one country, and for which there was a demand in another country, so they took advantage of the situation. What was wrong with that? Slavery was a recognised part of every legal system ever invented, including the Torah's, since the creation of the world; should they have refrained from buying and selling just because some rabblerouser in England woke up one morning and decided that it was wrong?"
Milhouse, you've had more than your share of foolish posts before, but this one takes the cake. It was legal for the nazi guards to kick the crap out of Jews for fun, so they shouldn't kick the crap out of the Jews? Kicking the crap out of Jews has a long and illustrious history in the world having been practiced in many times and places. Perhaps had it been practiced even more often and formally legalized more often, it would equally qualify as appropriate in your warped mind? ”
What the Nazis did wasn't legal, and they knew it. What the slave traders did was 100% legal, under the laws of every nation and every society on earth.
79
Jul 14, 2009 at 01:15 PM Milhouse Says:
“ "Halacha to this day sees nothing wrong with slavery.
Meanwhile the Jews were rounded up and MURDERED, for no reason at all. There was nothing legal about it."
Good. Halacha also sees nothing wrong with killing Amalekis and Nazi law saw nothing wrong with killing Jews. Go figure. ”
Yes, exactly. Now, are you suggesting that the Torah is wrong, chas veshalom? Or that if it is right, then the Nazis must be right too? Hashem has the right to make such laws; Hitler didn't.
And it has nothing to do with slavery, which was accepted by EVERYBODY until some agitators in England hobn fardreit dem velt a kop 200 years ago.
80
Jul 14, 2009 at 06:05 PM Milhouse Says:
“ MILLHOUSE- Do U have an oppositional Personality disorder. I read Mr. Asher Buchwald #68 posting and although an old man I cried. My heart was broken.. It was an extermination of the so called enlightened western intellectual world. Slavery was not Million burnt , gassed and shot just sold for profit and abused for the most part.. The tragedy was for both but the sheer size and intent as well as the results are and forever will be quite demonstrably different. Hashem yinokem ess domom.
MILLHOUSE BE A MAN ND TELL MR #68 how u feel personaly about his comment. U have a big heart now let everyone know u have it for klal yisroel! ”
What are you talking about? Maybe you have some sort of personality disorder, because you seem to be reacting to some sort of response by me to comment #68, when I have not written one! Please tell me what I wrote in response to #68, I'd love to know!
81
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:38 PM Rosie Says:
Why am I reading comments about how the Holocaust was worse or complaints about Obama having the nerve to compare the Holocaust with slavery? Why is it that people expect the world to sympathize with the horrors THEIR particular group had experienced, yet are completely incapable of expressing sympathy for the horrors that another group has experienced? I bet that if I had come across this article posted on a blog for African-Americans, people would be complaining the same thing . . . except they would be demanding that Obama should pay more attention to the history of slavery, instead of the Holocaust . . . or insisting that slavery was worse. Both the slave trade (with the institution of slavery) and the Holocaust were some pretty horrible periods for people to experience. Why is it so impossilbe to simply face that?
Why do people (and I mean EVERYBODY) insist upon maintaining this stupid herd mentality?
82
Jul 20, 2009 at 06:54 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Nice.... Comparing 6 Million Jews Killed To... ”
As I sit here and read the comments you all have posted I ponder how you can all make such a debate over which acts of inhumanity are worse. Instead of making a comparison about how which one of these tragic events was more awful, I ask you to consider what it was that going in society and history at the times to allow these atrocities to take place. Obama was simply suggesting that through out history these events have taken place and that we must remember them, and learn from them so we as a human race can prevent the from happening again. Yes the treatment of the Black American slaves was horrific and often times fatal and over hundreds of years millions were murdered cold heartedly often times raped and and spirits broken. Was slavery a market that was legal yes but does that make it any more morally over the treatment of a human life? Society seems to be very good at treating someone inhumanly when the governments that protect your "inalienable" rights don't consider you a citizen. The Holocaust in the same respect was an atrocity where 6 million Jewish lives were systematically burnt and gassed (in a much shorter period of time) knowingly to wipe out a race of people. The holocaust was an event that had so many political and economical aspects by a society that was striving for nationalism after a defeat in WWI and something better. A crazy ignorant lazy charismatic leader paved a way for a broken society to some how see hope. Unfortunately in this they took the lives of people who were just like them, and stripped them of their citizenships looking for someone to place the blame. Perhaps the most tragic things that happened were the little to no resistance that the Jewish put up and also the fact that when they surrendered the violence against them did not stop but only got worse. Unfortunately these events in history took place and there is much one can compare and contrast for hours upon hour of the treatment of American slaves and the slave labor camps at Ahwshwitz. Slave labor was a market to max profit and min cost and many cultures knew this with the American slave trade it was a market that had a shortage of workers and although treatment of these human lives again was inhumane the Germans had and endless supply of superfluous men and women at their disposal
83
Jul 20, 2009 at 07:07 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Nice.... Comparing 6 Million Jews Killed To... ”
As I sit here and read the comments you all have posted I ponder how you can all make such a debate over which acts of inhumanity are worse. Instead of making a comparison about how which one of these tragic events was more awful, I ask you to consider what it was that going in society and history at the times to allow these atrocities to take place. Obama was simply suggesting that through out history these events have taken place and that we must remember them, and learn from them so we as a human race can prevent the from happening again. Yes the treatment of the Black American slaves was horrific and often times fatal and over hundreds of years millions were murdered cold heartedly often times raped and and spirits broken. Was slavery a market that was legal yes but does that make it any more morally over the treatment of a human life? Society seems to be very good at treating someone inhumanly when the governments that protect your "inalienable" rights don't consider you a citizen. The Holocaust in the same respect was an atrocity where 6 million Jewish lives were systematically burnt and gassed (in a much shorter period of time) knowingly to wipe out a race of people. The holocaust was an event that had so many political and economical aspects by a society that was striving for nationalism after a defeat in WWI and something better. A crazy ignorant lazy charismatic leader paved a way for a broken society to some how see hope. Unfortunately in this they took the lives of people who were just like them, and stripped them of their citizenships looking for someone to place the blame. Perhaps the most tragic things that happened were the little to no resistance that the Jewish put up and also the fact that when they surrendered the violence against them did not stop but only got worse. Unfortunately these events in history took place and there is much one can compare and contrast for hours upon hour of the treatment of American slaves and the slave labor camps at Ahwshwitz. Slave labor was a market to max profit and min cost and many cultures knew this with the American slave trade it was a market that had a shortage of workers and although treatment of these human lives again was inhumane the Germans had and endless supply of superfluous men and women at their disposal