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Jerusalem - Zionist Rabbi: Blind Man Permissible To Touch Their Dates |
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Jerusalem - Rabbi Yuval Sherlo, head of the Petah Tikva Hesder Yeshiva, has declared it permissible for a blind man to "feel" his date if he intends to marry her.
"This is the way a blind man gets to know his partner," the rabbi said in response to a halachic question he was asked. "It may even be correct to say that he is required to touch her."
Sherlo was then asked to base his ruling on halachic sources, and his answer was posted on the yeshiva's website.
On the site he explains that despite a religious ruling that forbids men from looking at women because of their beauty, Torah sages required all men to see their intended before marriage. He says that this is true regarding the blind as well, but because the only way they can 'see' their date is by feeling her they are permitted to do so.
"Feeling her face is void of sexual significance; it's the blind man's way of seeing," the rabbi writes. "He is also subject to the obligation to build a loving home, and this is an inseparable part of how he does this."
Sherlo also explains that despite their disability, the blind still desire to know what their wives look like. "A blind man cares about many things, even if he cannot see them," he explains.
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Read Comments (54) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 15, 2009 at 08:14 PM Anonymous Says:
"Rabbi Yuval Sherlo, head of the Petah Tikva Hesder Yeshiva, has declared it permissible for a blind man to "feel" his date if he intends to marry her"
Baruch hashem. If any chassideshe rebbe would have issued such a poskin he would have been villified. The IDF hesder yeshivot promote a really progressive outlook.
2
Jul 15, 2009 at 08:10 PM Anonymous Says:
This guy is KRUM like the rest of Mizrachis.
what about NIDA? oh he permitted her to go to the mikveh also..
3
Jul 15, 2009 at 09:28 PM Anonymous Says:
Look, that's our toirah every rabbi has his opinion. If someone disagrees, please be polite! If someone is not respectful, then your opinion is void.
4
Jul 15, 2009 at 09:16 PM one of em Says:
“ "Rabbi Yuval Sherlo, head of the Petah Tikva Hesder Yeshiva, has declared it permissible for a blind man to "feel" his date if he intends to marry her"
Baruch hashem. If any chassideshe rebbe would have issued such a poskin he would have been villified. The IDF hesder yeshivot promote a really progressive outlook. ”
Boruch hashem???? this so called Rabbi is another Megaleh Ponim B;torah Shelo Kehlocha.
Toirah isnt something that one can change to be progressive.
5
Jul 15, 2009 at 09:16 PM Anonymous Says:
fascinating psak
6
Jul 15, 2009 at 09:14 PM Dov Says:
The man is a tzadik and a gadol and it is a shame that the haters will now focus on him.
7
Jul 15, 2009 at 09:10 PM WATCH OUT Says:
“ This guy is KRUM like the rest of Mizrachis.
what about NIDA? oh he permitted her to go to the mikveh also..
”
please remember we are in the three weeks- you know, sinaas chinam destroyed BHMK, that type of stuff. and while this could very well be an issur deoryasa (touching a niddah), please remember that Loshon Hara too is Deoraysa (30 issurim according to the Chofetz Chaim I believe) so please don't make this into a forum bashing Mizrachi/dati leumi because 1) its ossur 2) you probably don't know what you're talking about. Thank you.
8
Jul 15, 2009 at 09:03 PM 20/75 Says:
Does the ruling apply to those of us with poor eyesight or must one be totally blind?
9
Jul 15, 2009 at 08:54 PM lifney iver Says:
post #2 you seem to be KRUM. one should never have to pasken such shailot. you have no right to judge people by a news article. you should never be in that situation where if you were a blind man asking this question to your rav (whoever he may be)
10
Jul 15, 2009 at 08:51 PM Anonymous Says:
Nida isn't an issue, they aren't married and they aren't being "intimate".
11
Jul 15, 2009 at 08:41 PM Common sense Says:
“ This guy is KRUM like the rest of Mizrachis.
what about NIDA? oh he permitted her to go to the mikveh also..
”
You talk real stupidities. A Nida is only User on her husband, and when he dates her she isn't his husband yet.
12
Jul 15, 2009 at 08:38 PM clever Says:
“ This guy is KRUM like the rest of Mizrachis.
what about NIDA? oh he permitted her to go to the mikveh also..
”
take it ez am hu'uretz: there's no isur 2 "touch" a nida only 4 her "husband" (married)... every girl (single) is a nida (doesnt go in mikva)...
13
Jul 15, 2009 at 09:41 PM Expatriate Owl Says:
If he is blind in one eye, then can he feel her face with only one hand?
14
Jul 15, 2009 at 10:09 PM Just Thinking Says:
“ This guy is KRUM like the rest of Mizrachis.
what about NIDA? oh he permitted her to go to the mikveh also..
”
Nida is only forbidden if it is your wife. This is what happens with your over reactions, you lose sight of what is really forbidden and mix it up with your numerous illusions. The only prohibition in looking or touching a woman would be to enjoy it or benefit from it. The Talmud states that if you hand something to a women to look at her it is forbidden otherwise it is clear it isn't
15
Jul 15, 2009 at 10:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Nida isn't an issue, they aren't married and they aren't being "intimate". ”
to those who wrote that there is no isur to touch an unmarried nidah that is simply not correct.
it is clearly asur please see kitzur shulchan aruch siman 153
16
Jul 15, 2009 at 10:59 PM Gefilte Fish Says:
Ve'el isha benidas dovsah lo sikrav! nidda is assur whether its your wife or not, by your wife its just more stringent that you have all these harchakos. By an nida thats not your wife negia thats not shel chiba is mutter. The question here is if this face touching is considered negia shel chiba.
17
Jul 15, 2009 at 10:49 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You talk real stupidities. A Nida is only User on her husband, and when he dates her she isn't his husband yet. ”
# 10 # 11 r ameratzim A nida is a nida to all men on earth. #11 u cant speak Henglish properly,look what u wrote dopey!
18
Jul 15, 2009 at 10:43 PM Anonymous Says:
People need to be very careful about the way they talk about rabbonim. Do you know that if a Rav Paskens something as kosher, it becomes kosher, even if it's a chshash? There was a famous rav (I think the Maharal) Who was being tested by the community elder to see if he was fit to become a rav, because he was very young. They asked him many complicating shailos, and he answered them all correctly and brilliantly. However, one of the Shailos he had difficulty answering, and he told them, this Shailah is purely theoretical and never happened to someone in real life, because in all the other shialos, I felt Siyata dishmaya when I gave and answer, and this one, I didn't.
The power of a Rav is tremendous. Unfortunately, in many communities there are "politics" and people disrespect the Rabbanim. Please be careful with what you say. If you think this is an interesting p'sak, ask your own rav. And fortunately, for most of us, we are not blind, and you will never need to know anyways.
19
Jul 15, 2009 at 10:43 PM Kitzur says Says:
my question is, whats the purpose of this? have blind people not gotten married all these years? Do statistics prove that blind people who touch faces are more happily married? should this happen on the first date? how many girls' faces should he feel? and what exactly is he feeling for- her personality?? a blind person is more sensitive to personality anyway. The reason the gemara says that a boy must see his kalah is not to find her attractive but to know who he is marrying. in our days, when parents are normally present in the engagement and wedding period, this is only a custom called the 'badekin'. a chosson can go to the chuppah and marry without a 'badekin'. If you look in the "Kitzur Shulchin Oruch' Siman 152 Saheef13 you will see the prohibition of touching includes single vgirls as well and one would be "Chayiv" malkos.
20
Jul 15, 2009 at 10:40 PM mottel Says:
a niddah is forbidden to be touched by anyone, the issur has absolutely nothing to do with husbands.
21
Jul 15, 2009 at 09:56 PM Mordy Neuman Says:
“ please remember we are in the three weeks- you know, sinaas chinam destroyed BHMK, that type of stuff. and while this could very well be an issur deoryasa (touching a niddah), please remember that Loshon Hara too is Deoraysa (30 issurim according to the Chofetz Chaim I believe) so please don't make this into a forum bashing Mizrachi/dati leumi because 1) its ossur 2) you probably don't know what you're talking about. Thank you. ”
You are more dangerous then this excuse of a rabbi. Loshon Horah? Its ok if people stab god but the main thing is that we smile and get along? Shame on you. Did you not learn last week's parsha of pinchus? What is zeleousness in your esteemed opinion?
22
Jul 15, 2009 at 11:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You talk real stupidities. A Nida is only User on her husband, and when he dates her she isn't his husband yet. ”
You are very VERY wrong a Niddah is assur on every single Male. The only difference between her Husband and a stranger is on the Harchokos, since a couple (married) are used to each other Chazal made the Harchukos as opposed to 2 strangers. And Touching out of feelings is not a Harchoka only a real Issur Torah.
But touching not with feelings only to 'see' (for the 'blind' might very well be Muttar or at least it's not a issur torah and there is no Harchoka between them as metioned before.
23
Jul 15, 2009 at 09:43 PM Anonymous Says:
Is niddah an issue for a male doctor or dentist to a female patient? It is sometimes permissible for members of the opposite gender to touch in ways that are not "derech chiba".
24
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:22 AM Avraham Abba Says:
“ Is niddah an issue for a male doctor or dentist to a female patient? It is sometimes permissible for members of the opposite gender to touch in ways that are not "derech chiba". ”
This opinion is so correct! I agree with this Zionist rabbi. By the way, I am not an Arab-Muslim and therefore I am definitely not against Zionism. The issues which arose through the mistreatment of Rabbi Weissmandel ztz"l and many other frum yidden was obnoxious and evil. However, if Jews can buy Braun products and use other items manufactured in Germany, I can forgive wrongdoings done by the former Israeli governments. Even if some bad things are still going on, that does not twist or change the meaning of Zionism. Zionism is our assertion and pledge, that we deserve a land for ourselves and ain't nobody gonna take it, boy!
Even if I can't stand Mr. Obama, that doesn't mean I am not a citizen of the United States.
So what if this rabbi is a Zionist!
He is right to allow the touching for a blind person.
25
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:58 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You talk real stupidities. A Nida is only User on her husband, and when he dates her she isn't his husband yet. ”
In fact, she will never be his husband unless major scientific breakthroughs occur.
26
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:13 AM omg! Says:
Im a girl, and I DONT learn - and even I know that a single girl is a niddah and No man (not related) may touch her (besides for medical type purposes. I think some of you commenters should stop screaming nonsense onto vusizneias and go learn a little! Its good for your health - try it!
27
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:26 AM Shlomo Zalman Says:
What a disgustingly slanted article!! The headline starts with "Jerusalem-Zionist Rabbi..." What does Zionism have to do with the halachic issue under discussion? Is blindness a Zionistic phenomenon? The obvious intent of the piece is to show how lenient Zionist Rabbis are in halachic issues. It's pure chareidi propaganda and it's disgusting.
28
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:07 AM Anonymous Says:
ummm. Excuse me for asking and daring to question the brilliance and zidkos of this world renowned posek- But, if the guy has always been blind , then what would touching anybody mean to him. Of course he would have no frame of reference to establish 'yofi' to him. How would he know whether a fat nose or skinny , or high cheekbones or low ones would be 'attractive' or not.. All his reference points for humans would be only the sound of them and how they interact with him through that..
Think about it people. If a blind frum guy dating , feels he has to touch someone to get a better 'feel' for them, something is definitely wrong, and its not with her.
29
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:06 AM shmiel glassman Says:
A FEW POINTS:
1.the rav meant well & wanted to help this young man . (the comments should reflect that point.)
a young man that is blind & wants to live a normal life should evoke rachmonis in all of us
2. OBVIOUSLY THAT CANNOT CHANGE THE HALOCHO
3. the ravs reasoning is a hard sell, that touching a potential date is negiah shelo derech chiba .
yehi ratzon , that this person should find an eizer bekorov
ps-how much, we must thank hashem for eyesight (& glasses)
30
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:52 AM Anonymous Says:
Gevaldik, I happen to know the rov and he is a godol byisroel.
31
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:40 AM matzahlocal101 Says:
AFRA LIPOOMAY!! I would have to believe that comments 9-12 are made by the same poster using different names. I cannot believe that 4 different completely ignorant people could be on the same website at the same time. Let me ask three ridiculously coherent questions.
Q1) A man is allowed to touch a nida who is not his wife. Why is this even an issue.
A1) Because he a man is not allowed to touch a woman who is niddah. He is in fact not allowed to look ar her little finger. (Modern orthodox can ignore this, it's in the simanim you cut out of shulchan oruch)
Q2)A Jewish blind man never never got married before?
A2)Jewish blind men got married before and they relied on the testimony of their friends and relatives that the woman was a ba'alos midos toivas (sheker hachain vihevel hayofi) not that she face of a super model and the body of a pornstar.
Q3) The "klutz kasha" What does a pretty face feel like and being that beauty is in the eyes (in this case the fingertips,) of the beholder, what does he have to compare it to? He checks to make sure that she doesn't have a beard and a mustache or a big zit on the tip of her nose? How many women's faces is supposed to feel up to et a consensus? maybe all woman have beards and zits on the end of their noses? The mizrachi RA-BANIM have sunk to a new low if they do not eject this reformer from their midst.
32
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:17 AM Anonymous Says:
Sorry this whole debate is idiatic for one a nidah is asur to all it's a pusuk in the Torah as has allready been pointed out by others but the real truth is that this tipesh based his psak that the blind man has a chiyuv to build a home and this prooves that he is no gadoll oops yes he is a gadol in am arutzuts couse a blind man is putur mikol hatorah he is not considerd a mechyuv bemitzvos tipshim and your debating this blatent ameratsus nebebech but it's like most things here that people talk and have no clue what the hell there talking about abi meret
33
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:38 AM Anonymous Says:
“ People need to be very careful about the way they talk about rabbonim. Do you know that if a Rav Paskens something as kosher, it becomes kosher, even if it's a chshash? There was a famous rav (I think the Maharal) Who was being tested by the community elder to see if he was fit to become a rav, because he was very young. They asked him many complicating shailos, and he answered them all correctly and brilliantly. However, one of the Shailos he had difficulty answering, and he told them, this Shailah is purely theoretical and never happened to someone in real life, because in all the other shialos, I felt Siyata dishmaya when I gave and answer, and this one, I didn't.
The power of a Rav is tremendous. Unfortunately, in many communities there are "politics" and people disrespect the Rabbanim. Please be careful with what you say. If you think this is an interesting p'sak, ask your own rav. And fortunately, for most of us, we are not blind, and you will never need to know anyways. ”
The story was with the nodah biyehuda. One of his answers wasn't correct, and he told them that studying is not enough we in addition help from g-d. But your point is that even he makes a mistake we shouldn't rebuff, that's an other point.
34
Jul 16, 2009 at 01:29 AM Rochel Says:
“ Nida is only forbidden if it is your wife. This is what happens with your over reactions, you lose sight of what is really forbidden and mix it up with your numerous illusions. The only prohibition in looking or touching a woman would be to enjoy it or benefit from it. The Talmud states that if you hand something to a women to look at her it is forbidden otherwise it is clear it isn't ”
oh so now it's muttar to be over Shomer Negiah! I am sorry but Halochos of isur of yichud were put in place for a reason!
35
Jul 16, 2009 at 01:03 AM #7 Says:
“ You are more dangerous then this excuse of a rabbi. Loshon Horah? Its ok if people stab god but the main thing is that we smile and get along? Shame on you. Did you not learn last week's parsha of pinchus? What is zeleousness in your esteemed opinion? ”
1) I was responding to this line "This guy is KRUM like the rest of Mizrachis" - saying LH about several hundred thousand Jews is not something I'd want to give din on after 120. That is what I was responding to.
2)Before we can be kanoyim, we have to be lamdonim. You have to think about the issues intellegently- ie going through the sugya with an open mind- and then reaching a conclusion. See Chazon Ish's Emunah & Bitachon.
3) I am not saying he's right- read my comment again, I am just saying if you're not going to discuss the shayla at hand and instead say LASHON HARA about several hundred thousand Jews, you're asking for problems R'L.
36
Jul 16, 2009 at 12:36 AM Shlomo Zalman Says:
Rav Sherlo has the guts to offer a difficult psak in a difficult situation. He is to be applauded. If you don't like his psask, pray that you don't become blind.
37
Jul 16, 2009 at 12:20 AM Anonymous Says:
is it also for those who are blind mentaly?
38
Jul 16, 2009 at 12:01 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You are more dangerous then this excuse of a rabbi. Loshon Horah? Its ok if people stab god but the main thing is that we smile and get along? Shame on you. Did you not learn last week's parsha of pinchus? What is zeleousness in your esteemed opinion? ”
who are you to judge a rosh yeshiva's qualifications as a rov just because you are too ignorant and pompous to know what he knows and applies to his psak?
shamai and hillel disagreed on everything. yet neither one ever questioned the others' semicha.
who the heck are you to talk this way of a rosh yeshiva? he is no different than the rosh of yenem yeshiva on yenem street in brooklyn usa
39
Jul 16, 2009 at 09:50 AM berel Says:
#7 so everytime one disagrees (al pi halacha)on a psak its called sins chinom.ahem. by the way, what is sinas chinom that everybody is always throwing around (usually the lefties). and if rov is a kal,(im saying in general) and is known as...one can point it out...you know the meaning f sinas chinom? when you one has riches and your envy breeds hate toward them, one has it good and your envy breeds hate to them thats sinas chinom
40
Jul 16, 2009 at 09:36 AM berel Says:
#2 every rabbi does not have 'his opinion'. dass torah is not an 'opinion'. if he has his rulings derived from shulchen urach,we can go ahead and debate over it .so lets see on what he bases his halcha.
41
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:02 AM Anonymous Says:
Don't u feel the apple before you buy it. Imagine if he didn't and then he feels his product when their already married and he doesn't like his apple- then we have major problems to deal with. When a blind person feels what he percieves it is the way he gets to know it. Don't be frumer than g-d and be practical and realistic.
42
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:38 AM Charlie Hall Says:
I personally know a blind Jew whose rabbi, now diseased but not known for excessive leniency during his lifetime, told him to listen to Torah shiurim on a battery powered tape recorder on Shabat.
43
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:37 AM humm.. Says:
So now that the blind man has a heter...pray tell me what heter dose the non blind women have?
44
Jul 16, 2009 at 11:07 AM lkwd1 Says:
“ Im a girl, and I DONT learn - and even I know that a single girl is a niddah and No man (not related) may touch her (besides for medical type purposes. I think some of you commenters should stop screaming nonsense onto vusizneias and go learn a little! Its good for your health - try it! ”
yours is the first common sense comment so far
45
Jul 16, 2009 at 09:27 AM Getzel the Pretzel Says:
“ Nida isn't an issue, they aren't married and they aren't being "intimate". ”
“Nida isn't an issue, they aren't married and they aren't being "intimate".”
You must know a lot about the sugya. The extreme am ha'aratzus about your comments demonstrate that.
Touching a looking are based on 2 different issurim. Looking is based on lo sasuru and touching is based on lo sikrivu. The latter is an erva and has a din yarog v'al yavir. Look in Y"D 186. Therefore, there is no connection between the two.
I can go on and on about the sugya. However, I will let the "whatever I am in the mood for" commentators to demonstrate their ignorance. Often times, stupidity is more entertaining that factual knowledge.
46
Jul 16, 2009 at 12:07 PM omg2 Says:
“ Im a girl, and I DONT learn - and even I know that a single girl is a niddah and No man (not related) may touch her (besides for medical type purposes. I think some of you commenters should stop screaming nonsense onto vusizneias and go learn a little! Its good for your health - try it! ”
what do you know about mens health! your teacher may have tought you wrong.
47
Jul 16, 2009 at 11:57 AM Karl Says:
I believe that Rav was talking about a blind date.
48
Jul 16, 2009 at 12:27 PM avrumy Says:
You are all am haratzim! A suma is puttor min hamitzvos!
49
Jul 16, 2009 at 12:25 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I believe that Rav was talking about a blind date. ”
lol
50
Jul 16, 2009 at 12:36 PM #7 Says:
“ #7 so everytime one disagrees (al pi halacha)on a psak its called sins chinom.ahem. by the way, what is sinas chinom that everybody is always throwing around (usually the lefties). and if rov is a kal,(im saying in general) and is known as...one can point it out...you know the meaning f sinas chinom? when you one has riches and your envy breeds hate toward them, one has it good and your envy breeds hate to them thats sinas chinom ”
Again, please see my response - #35.
51
Jul 16, 2009 at 12:48 PM Getzel the Pretzel Says:
“ You are all am haratzim! A suma is puttor min hamitzvos! ”
According to your logic, a suma can be oiver on any issar. Look in the mirror first before you accuse someone of something.
52
Jul 16, 2009 at 09:52 PM berel Says:
#27 why is it discusting, why is it propeganda...a ehrliche yirai shomayim rov will not allow it. there are other issues involved besides the issyr of negiah b'nida..
53
Jul 17, 2009 at 07:38 AM Anona Moose Says:
AND..... What girl is going to let a guy stick his fingers up her nose as a condition of deciding whether he wants to marry her. The dude should be happy that someone is interested in him first place, "let me just feel your face" sounds like a real deal breaker.
54
Jul 18, 2009 at 10:56 PM Ne'via Says:
Well, I guess the guy's lucky he can't read all your comments, since he's blind. Now he can go and feel to his heart's content.