RSS Feed
Borough Park, NY - Emotional Gathering At ‘Asifah’ In Support of Imprisoned Students In Japan |
|
| |
Last updated on: Jul 16, 2009 at 11:57 PM
Text Size
|
hundreds gathered to show support of the Japan boys
Thousands heralding from every community were attendance. Most of those present had traveled in from the countryside to attend, and were provided refreshments after the lengthy trip.
A number of Admorim and rabbonim honored the event with their presence, a number of whom had traveled from afar to attend. Those present included the Rachmastrivka, Bobov, Munkacz, and Chernobyl rebbes, Rav Moshe Wolfson, the av beis din of Emunas Yisroel, and many others.
Rabbi Weiss speaking
The event was opened with an impassioned recital of Tehilim by the Belzer dayan, Rav Shlomo Gross, followed by the special tefilla to release prisoners Vatikra Lashvuyim.
The emcee of the evening was the askan Rav Chaim Meir Markowitz, who was among the organizers.
The first speaker was a dignitary from Lakewood who mentioned, "How can we be sad this Tisha B'Av, when we have our own Tisha B'av this year, with three innocent bochurim locked up in prison in a distant country?"
Rav Dunner of London
Rav Abba Dunner, the director of the Council of European Rabbis, who had just returned from visiting the bochurim in Japan, spoke in Yiddish and English. As the head of the leading European rabbinical organization, he has helped Jews in difficult spots around the world. His friend, the Horodenka rebbe of Manchester, asked him to travel to Japan with the rebbe's brother, Rav Chaim Dovid Yosef Weiss, the Satmar dayan in Antwerp. Acquainted with Rav Weiss's mesirus nefesh to help prisoners around the world, Rav Dunner acquiesced.
" I came hoping to help the bochurim get kosher food. I am not a lawyer and don't have experience in such things. I am only a rabbi. When I met one of the bochurim, it was 12 in the afternoon. I asked him, "Did you already eat today?" He told me he still hadn't. I asked him when he eats. He said that every evening, he receives a fruit and vegetable and a cup of water. Besides that, they get nothing. When a religious Jew travels on vacation, he often relies on all kinds of leniencies with whatever food he can find. But these boys are in a state of their life is at stake and they won't eat anything questionable. I assume that most of the rabbonim here would permit them to eat the other food they are brought, relying on various leniencies. But they don't want to eat such food.
Rabbi Henich Perl of Lakewood
"The bochur was a pleasant chap. He smiled at me, and I took my cellphone and snapped a picture of him."
Rav Dunner added that these youths are "korbonos hatzibur". "
When my son R' Benzion was killed a year ago, I said it had happened because of a controversy that had broken out in the city. It's the same thing here. We have to unite the entire Jewish people. We must get the boys out of there. Only today I saw an invoice from the lawyers, requesting $180,000 to continue working on the bochurim's behalf."
Rav Chaim Yosef Dovid Weiss, who had arrived from Antwerp, took the podium. He told the audience chilling details of the bochurim's situation.
Video below of the event. Credit to Hershi Rubinstein, and Shezoli 
of YouTube
"When I got involved at the request of Rav Mendel Shafran, no one knew what to do. Know that these bochurim didn't have the faintest idea what they were doing. They didn't know that they were doing something unkosher. Nevertheless, when it comes to the mitzva of pidyon shevuyim, it doesn't make a difference if they knew or didn't know.
"Two weeks ago, when one of the lawyers spoke with one of the boys, he asked him, 'Do you know what drugs are used for?' The bochur replied, in full innocence, 'Yes, drugs are used to kill people.' The lawyer had to explain to him what drugs are used for. Then when I visited the bochur a week later, I asked him the same question. He told me, 'Drugs are used to make people happy.' I asked him, 'So what's so bad about something that makes people happy?' He smiled wanly at me and said, 'I don't know.' This story opens a window on what the bochurim knew about drugs and what they thought they were taking to Japan.
Video below of Reb Donner at the event. Credit to Hershi Rubinstein, and Shezoli of YouTube
"All three bochurim underwent polygraph testing. They asked them 16 questions, and all of them were found to be speaking the truth. But Japan has a law which states that one can use a polygraph only to convict the accused, not to acquit him, since the device is only accurate 92% of the time. One Admor who has worked tremendously to release the bochurim, is the Munkaczer rebbe. He bears the name of Rav Moshe Leib of Sassov, who devoted his life to freeing Jews imprisoned by the cruel poritzim of his time. His grandson is following in his ways and does a tremendous amount for prisoners who are entangled in different countries.
Harav Chaim Meir Markowitz
"The rebbe mentioned an important point, that 92% of people tested have accurate readings, but if three people are tested on the same questions and they all come up with the same answers, it is clear that they are all innocent. The Munkaczer rebbe organized a special, secret trip to Los Angeles with the lawyers to present them to the two greatest experts in the U.S. on polygraph testing."
Rav Weiss also revealed that the head of Interpol in Bangkok visited the boys in prison, and said unambiguously, "These boys are innocent of any crime."
Rav Weiss cited Rav Wozner's request from him, "I beg of you, whatever you are going through, do not forsake the matter of the bochurim. Take charge of this case until they are released." The Gaavad of the Aida Hachareidis, Rav Yitzchak Tuvya Weiss, also said, "I am of the opinion that one may transgress Shabbos for them."
Rav Weiss said that the bochurim do not eat bread and fish. "I will say another thing which no one knows, which I didn't even want to tell the families: We found out yesterday night, that one of the bochurim fainted because they are eating so little. He was Unconscious for six hours. He must eat several of the things they are giving in the prison. When we met with the Japanese Justice Minister, we weren't able to convince him to give the boys given kosher food. This is against the law."
"Rabosai, we have all heard stories of eminent Admorim who fasted many months in the death camps during the Holocaust. They would take the food served to them and would give it back because it wasn't kosher."
Rav Weiss said that they checked all similar cases which had ended in acquittals, and this way they reached the top 5 lawyers, each of which takes $500 an hour. "The trial has cost us so far a million and a half dollars. Even if we win the trial, the Japanese prosecutors will appeal the decision. Therefore, the story is far from coming to an end and we need the public's assistance."
He added that if the bochurim are convicted in their trials, their situation will be desperate. "They'll have to do hard labor. At first, when I heard they might get hard labor, I thought it was something similar to what our fathers underwent in the Holocaust. But after I looked into it, I discovered it meant that the prisoners would have to sit and sew by hand, with a large hat on their head which doesn't permit them to turn to either side."
Rav Weiss added impassionately, "If they catch one prisoner not working or looking at other prisoners, they put him in a special solitary confinement for two weeks where he can't even move! If G-d forbid this happens, there is almost no chance they will get out of there without going insane!"
At the end of the assembly, the thousands in the audience went to the booths to give their donations. The dead seriousness and readiness to participate in the mitzva was to a degree unseen in the past at even the largest dinners. Among the donors were kolel avreichim, elderly pensioners, baalebatim and sick people. Everyone wanted to participate in saving the bochurim.
The askanim are planning to conduct a similar evening next Wednesday in the Continental Hall in Williamsburg with the attendance of local prominent rabbonim and Admorim.
More of today's headlines
“Manhattan, NY - New York City has never been a better place to get sick. For the first time, three New York hospitals made the U.S. News and World Report ranking of...”
New York, NY - NY Presbyterian, NYU and Mount Sinai are 3 of Top 20 U.S. Hospitals
Nuremberg, Germany - Prosecutors Probe Heil Hitler Garden Gnome
Total94
Read Comments (94) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 16, 2009 at 01:47 PM Anonymous Says:
"When my son R' Benzion was killed a year ago, I said it had happened because of a controversy that had broken out in the city."
Who told him this was the case? I have very little respect for these types of statements, because we certainly lack Ruach HaKodesh.
2
Jul 16, 2009 at 01:57 PM Asifah Says:
Where are all these asifah's, rabbis and people when it comes to publicly ostracizing and lynching the hassid who is responsible for this? What kind of lopsided 'ism' is this? What planet are these 'jews' from?
3
Jul 16, 2009 at 01:54 PM Just wondering Says:
what does this mean: "Nevertheless, when it comes to the mitzva of pidyon shevuyim, it doesn't make a difference if they knew or didn't know."
Anyone have a clue? Suppose someone knew he was definitely doing something illegal and dangerous (not necessarily the case here) then there's still a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim? So what's to stop someone from doing something illegal and dangerous if we all have an obligation to redeem him??
4
Jul 16, 2009 at 01:52 PM maybe the reason is.... Says:
how come no one has raised an issue that none, and i repeat, none of these heilige admorim have lifted a finger for yohonason pollard!!! not one has lifted a finger for Gilad Shalit!!!!
these teenagers, whether or not they knew, they still smuggled drugs. they still lied when asked if the packages they were carrying were theirs, and if they had been with them at all times that is asked to every single person when traveling between any 2 countries! they were paid to bring packages that they knew nothing about its contents into another country.
but lets look at pollard and shalit. these are people that put their neck on the line for jews with absolutely no monetary compensation! they have been in jail 20+ and 3+ years in confinement, in pretty harsh conditions. pollard was laid naked and hosed with ice water to give up names of jews who were 5th columnists in theis country, and refused as he knew of no such thing. shalit is in the hands of hamas1 and no asifus for them.
these admorim should be ashamed of themselves, and maybe since rabbonim always like to find stupid reason for things happening, maybe these kids are in jail, because the haimish oilem doesnt give a red cent of care to our 2 brothers languishing in jail all this time!!!!!
5
Jul 16, 2009 at 01:51 PM Dave Says:
So they won't eat bread or fish?
If they had been as scrupulous in their behavior earlier, they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Or is such delicacy only for kashrus?
What has never been explained is, if they are so innocent, and so honest, why they didn't declare the antiques at customs? Had they done so, and explained that they were meeting someone who was to bring the money for any import duties, they would have been fine.
Instead, while I believe that they did not intend to smuggle drugs into Japan, it looks pretty clear that they intended to smuggle the antiques past customs.
6
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:14 PM Askupeh Says:
“ what does this mean: "Nevertheless, when it comes to the mitzva of pidyon shevuyim, it doesn't make a difference if they knew or didn't know."
Anyone have a clue? Suppose someone knew he was definitely doing something illegal and dangerous (not necessarily the case here) then there's still a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim? So what's to stop someone from doing something illegal and dangerous if we all have an obligation to redeem him??
”
Wonder no more. The Mitzvah of Pidyon Shevuyim is indeed whether they knew or not. If you don’t understand this, then go ask your Rov to explain it to you. To Rabbi Dunner it doesn’t have to be explained because he breathes Ahavas Yisroel.
7
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:13 PM Charlie Hall Says:
What is the address of the legal defense fund to which we may send contributions?
8
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:09 PM Askupeh Says:
Tears are falling down my cheeks reading this. Can anyone fathom what they are reading here? If I were to be convicted in Japan I would rather want to die then to go through this torture. Even running the gauntlet in Tsarist Russia was only a one time occurrence which someone might or might not come out alive. This is slow and constant torture which clearly falls into the category of “cruel and unusual punishment” (Rishess Bla”z). Kosher food is FORBIDDEN BY LAW! Only ONE meal a day!
It seems to me that the Orientals have no feelings for each other (after all their jails were created by their own), and when your neighbor or even brother is in jail (tortured) you go on with your life as if nothing ever happened. I would not have imagined that this still exists in a “civilized” country. Indeed let’s say with Kavoneh “Oleinu Leshabeiach La’Adoin Hakoil, Loseiss Gedulloh Leyoitzeir Bereishis SHELOI OSONU KEGOIYEI HO’AROTZOIS, VELOI SOMONU KeMiShPoChOiS HO’ADOMOH”.
9
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:08 PM joe Says:
are they the korbanoth of everybody or the korban of the guy who set them up?
this case may also show the need for the charedim to be aware of the outside world and not totally insulate themselves.
10
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:38 PM Anonymous Says:
“ how come no one has raised an issue that none, and i repeat, none of these heilige admorim have lifted a finger for yohonason pollard!!! not one has lifted a finger for Gilad Shalit!!!!
these teenagers, whether or not they knew, they still smuggled drugs. they still lied when asked if the packages they were carrying were theirs, and if they had been with them at all times that is asked to every single person when traveling between any 2 countries! they were paid to bring packages that they knew nothing about its contents into another country.
but lets look at pollard and shalit. these are people that put their neck on the line for jews with absolutely no monetary compensation! they have been in jail 20+ and 3+ years in confinement, in pretty harsh conditions. pollard was laid naked and hosed with ice water to give up names of jews who were 5th columnists in theis country, and refused as he knew of no such thing. shalit is in the hands of hamas1 and no asifus for them.
these admorim should be ashamed of themselves, and maybe since rabbonim always like to find stupid reason for things happening, maybe these kids are in jail, because the haimish oilem doesnt give a red cent of care to our 2 brothers languishing in jail all this time!!!!! ”
Shalit you are right but Pollard gave classified info to Israel which is against the law in the USA just as smuggling drugs in Japan and what beside tefillah for Shalit do you want them to do hire a lawyer will that help his release?
11
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:36 PM e. grossmann Says:
"The Mitzvah of Pidyon Shevuyim is indeed whether they knew or not."
Well, meanwhile we learned on Vosizneias and its comments, that Pidyon Shevuyim is for people who are in prison on the grounds of
- tax fraud (see Spinka case)
- fraud (see strulowitz case)
- child abuse (see Jerusalem mother and Elior Chen case)
- infanticide (see Valis case)
So why not also for mules?
12
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So they won't eat bread or fish?
If they had been as scrupulous in their behavior earlier, they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Or is such delicacy only for kashrus?
What has never been explained is, if they are so innocent, and so honest, why they didn't declare the antiques at customs? Had they done so, and explained that they were meeting someone who was to bring the money for any import duties, they would have been fine.
Instead, while I believe that they did not intend to smuggle drugs into Japan, it looks pretty clear that they intended to smuggle the antiques past customs.
”
you appear very ignorant senseless and heartless.. a bit of common sense, those "drugs" were hidden inside the bottoms of suitcases, some loose "antiques" were open in the suitcases to fool the bocherim, they are as innocent as possible, and go check your own books how perfect you are, before you judge innocent young yeshiva boys.
13
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So they won't eat bread or fish?
If they had been as scrupulous in their behavior earlier, they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Or is such delicacy only for kashrus?
What has never been explained is, if they are so innocent, and so honest, why they didn't declare the antiques at customs? Had they done so, and explained that they were meeting someone who was to bring the money for any import duties, they would have been fine.
Instead, while I believe that they did not intend to smuggle drugs into Japan, it looks pretty clear that they intended to smuggle the antiques past customs.
”
Super comment! genius comment! do you really want Hashem to judge you likewise when your day comes? idiot!
14
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:30 PM To #1 Says:
You may be right in what you are saying. But your harsh "tone" in which you write against a person who lost his son in a tragic car accident in the prime of his lifetime, should be written more carefully. Al Tveiunu Leyday Nissayon, R'L. Be carefull next time.
15
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ what does this mean: "Nevertheless, when it comes to the mitzva of pidyon shevuyim, it doesn't make a difference if they knew or didn't know."
Anyone have a clue? Suppose someone knew he was definitely doing something illegal and dangerous (not necessarily the case here) then there's still a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim? So what's to stop someone from doing something illegal and dangerous if we all have an obligation to redeem him??
”
Well, this is what the Torah says! anymore questions today?
16
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Where are all these asifah's, rabbis and people when it comes to publicly ostracizing and lynching the hassid who is responsible for this? What kind of lopsided 'ism' is this? What planet are these 'jews' from? ”
What a silly comment, what will it bring to anyone? there's no mitzva in the torah of making asifo's to "...ostracizing and lynching anybody", There is a mitzva, a big mitzva to help pidyon shevuyim, redeem those brothers suffering within the horrible walls of prison.
17
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:25 PM Askupeh Says:
“ So they won't eat bread or fish?
If they had been as scrupulous in their behavior earlier, they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Or is such delicacy only for kashrus?
What has never been explained is, if they are so innocent, and so honest, why they didn't declare the antiques at customs? Had they done so, and explained that they were meeting someone who was to bring the money for any import duties, they would have been fine.
Instead, while I believe that they did not intend to smuggle drugs into Japan, it looks pretty clear that they intended to smuggle the antiques past customs.
”
Check your roots. Such a statement “looks pretty clear” that your feet haven’t stood on Mount Sinai.
18
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:23 PM Askupeh Says:
“ how come no one has raised an issue that none, and i repeat, none of these heilige admorim have lifted a finger for yohonason pollard!!! not one has lifted a finger for Gilad Shalit!!!!
these teenagers, whether or not they knew, they still smuggled drugs. they still lied when asked if the packages they were carrying were theirs, and if they had been with them at all times that is asked to every single person when traveling between any 2 countries! they were paid to bring packages that they knew nothing about its contents into another country.
but lets look at pollard and shalit. these are people that put their neck on the line for jews with absolutely no monetary compensation! they have been in jail 20+ and 3+ years in confinement, in pretty harsh conditions. pollard was laid naked and hosed with ice water to give up names of jews who were 5th columnists in theis country, and refused as he knew of no such thing. shalit is in the hands of hamas1 and no asifus for them.
these admorim should be ashamed of themselves, and maybe since rabbonim always like to find stupid reason for things happening, maybe these kids are in jail, because the haimish oilem doesnt give a red cent of care to our 2 brothers languishing in jail all this time!!!!! ”
Everything has its time and place, and if an Asifeh would have been deemed helpful for Shalit or Pollard, it surely would have taken place. Nobody has more Rachmoness on them then the “Heimisha Yiden”. Maybe in those cases, working behind the scenes is better, for many, many reasons. I am one of those you accuse who “doesn’t give a red cent of care to our 2 brothers languishing in jail all this time”. Nothing can be further then the truth, it is MAINLY the Heimish Oilom who care for all their brothers in jail. I have done my share (probably not enough) regarding Shalit and Polard; have you?
19
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:14 PM e. grossmann Says:
They should say:
"We did not know what was in our suitcases, but we are happy that you caught us, because we do not want to be responsible for Japanese taking drugs."
20
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:22 PM Anonymous Says:
I have no sufficient words for the above comments. If someone made a mistake who has the business to decide what thier punishment should be? Who decides how cruel it should be? Where is your Rachmanus? I thought that Rachmanus is in our Jewish genetical makeup- unless of coure the above comments are made by non-Jews!
21
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:55 PM Dave Says:
“ I have no sufficient words for the above comments. If someone made a mistake who has the business to decide what thier punishment should be? Who decides how cruel it should be? Where is your Rachmanus? I thought that Rachmanus is in our Jewish genetical makeup- unless of coure the above comments are made by non-Jews! ”
In Japan, it would be the Japanese people, through their elected officials, who determine what the punishment is for smuggling narcotics into the country.
In America, for example, the people, through their elected officials and by ballot initiative, have in some cases passed "three strikes" laws under which three purse snatchings are sufficient to merit life imprisonment.
I don't find arguments that prisoners who have "found Jesus" should be let out of prison for their crimes early convincing, and it would be hypocritical of me that Jews should be let out of prison for their crimes early because of their religious beliefs.
22
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:51 PM ...LavDafka Says:
the tora says pIdyAn SCHVUUUYIN....lets have an appeal for money at the next gathering...we will collect a gevaligeeer amount....no taxes..and we can do a redemption before zman.
23
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:51 PM Anonymous Says:
From the US State Department's website:
"Illegal Drugs: Penalties for possession or use of, or trafficking in illegal drugs, including marijuana, in Japan are severe, and convicted offenders can expect long jail sentences and fines. In most drug cases, suspects are detained incommunicado, which bars them from receiving visitors or corresponding with anyone other than a lawyer or U.S. consular officer until after indictment, which may take several months. Solitary confinement is common.
People can be convicted of drug use based on positive blood or urine tests alone, and multiple Americans are now serving time in Japanese prisons as the result of sting operations and the use of informants. The Japanese police routinely share information on drug arrests with Interpol, assuring that notice of the arrest will reach U.S. law enforcement agencies. About half of all Americans now in prison in Japan are incarcerated for drug-related crimes.
Japanese authorities aggressively pursue drug smugglers with sophisticated detection equipment, "sniffing" dogs and other methods. Travelers and their luggage entering Japan are screened at ports of entry. Incoming and outgoing mail, as well as international packages sent via DHL or FEDEX, is also checked carefully. The Japanese police make arrests for even the smallest amounts of illegal drugs. Several Americans are now in custody after having mailed illegal drugs to themselves from other countries. Other Americans are serving time for having tried to bring drugs into Japan as paid couriers working out of Southeast Asia or Europe."
Japan has very severe drug enforcement and penalties for two main reasons:
1. They have a very low drug addiction problem amongst their population and want to keep it that way. Remember that Japan has a nationalized form of health care system, and higher drug addiction rates can translate into higher health care cost, burdening taxpayers. Severe drug penalties can act as a very strong deterrent
2. There's a disproportionate level of drug smuggling and trafficking coming into and out of Asia. That is motivation for the Japanese government to rigidly enforce drug offenses.
24
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:49 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "When my son R' Benzion was killed a year ago, I said it had happened because of a controversy that had broken out in the city."
Who told him this was the case? I have very little respect for these types of statements, because we certainly lack Ruach HaKodesh. ”
Be carefull how you speak to a father who lost his son in his lifetime!
25
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:26 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So they won't eat bread or fish?
If they had been as scrupulous in their behavior earlier, they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Or is such delicacy only for kashrus?
What has never been explained is, if they are so innocent, and so honest, why they didn't declare the antiques at customs? Had they done so, and explained that they were meeting someone who was to bring the money for any import duties, they would have been fine.
Instead, while I believe that they did not intend to smuggle drugs into Japan, it looks pretty clear that they intended to smuggle the antiques past customs.
”
They actually did do that. They went to customs and declared antiques and said that someone was supposed to meet them and pay. The Japanese bastards did not care and said we caught u and u r the criminals.
26
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:25 PM To e. gross-mann Says:
“ "The Mitzvah of Pidyon Shevuyim is indeed whether they knew or not."
Well, meanwhile we learned on Vosizneias and its comments, that Pidyon Shevuyim is for people who are in prison on the grounds of
- tax fraud (see Spinka case)
- fraud (see strulowitz case)
- child abuse (see Jerusalem mother and Elior Chen case)
- infanticide (see Valis case)
So why not also for mules? ”
you are absolutely right.
"The Mitzvah of Pidyon Shevuyim is indeed whether they knew or not."
Well, meanwhile we learned on Vosizneias and its comments, that Pidyon Shevuyim is for people who are in prison on the grounds of ANYTHING
27
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:23 PM maybe the reason is.... Says:
“ Be carefull how you speak to a father who lost his son in his lifetime! ”
Anonymous Says: Says:
“Be carefull how you speak to a father who lost his son in his lifetime!”
excuse me, #1 has every right to make a statement about the unfortunate event, since this "father" decided to use it to use it to blame an entire kehilah for the tragedy.
this guy is right. every time a rov or rebbe or whoever gets up and says such and such happened because of such and such, makes himself out to be a fool, as he clearly hasnt the foggiest idea what he is talking about, and if you will claim he does, then you are saying he is either one of the following, a child or a shotah,a s they are teh only ones who have nevuah today! and one more thing, when people, and i repeat people,, claim things happen for a certain reason, they are very possibly being over on saying false nevius, as many chassidim/talmidim afterwards go around using the actual term nevius!
28
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:08 PM efry Says:
“ how come no one has raised an issue that none, and i repeat, none of these heilige admorim have lifted a finger for yohonason pollard!!! not one has lifted a finger for Gilad Shalit!!!!
these teenagers, whether or not they knew, they still smuggled drugs. they still lied when asked if the packages they were carrying were theirs, and if they had been with them at all times that is asked to every single person when traveling between any 2 countries! they were paid to bring packages that they knew nothing about its contents into another country.
but lets look at pollard and shalit. these are people that put their neck on the line for jews with absolutely no monetary compensation! they have been in jail 20+ and 3+ years in confinement, in pretty harsh conditions. pollard was laid naked and hosed with ice water to give up names of jews who were 5th columnists in theis country, and refused as he knew of no such thing. shalit is in the hands of hamas1 and no asifus for them.
these admorim should be ashamed of themselves, and maybe since rabbonim always like to find stupid reason for things happening, maybe these kids are in jail, because the haimish oilem doesnt give a red cent of care to our 2 brothers languishing in jail all this time!!!!! ”
this that you don't know about it does not mean they did not do anything ..... they did do ,are doing , and will continue to do , the rest is none of you business
29
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:07 PM seicheldig Says:
VIN can you get these shaky ba'alei tshuvos to see that the frum community h DOES care for a a fellow jew and not all of the are crooks
30
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:07 PM HaLeiVi Says:
“ They should say:
"We did not know what was in our suitcases, but we are happy that you caught us, because we do not want to be responsible for Japanese taking drugs." ”
Are you happy they are caught? It's amazing how some of you guys can talk so jeeringly about the boys stuck in a horrible prison, while munching on your popcorn, leaning back on your swivel chair. How Dare You?
31
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:06 PM Levi Says:
Are the people at this meeting really frum? I do not see any burning garbage cans or stones.
32
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:06 PM e. grossmann Says:
“ Tears are falling down my cheeks reading this. Can anyone fathom what they are reading here? If I were to be convicted in Japan I would rather want to die then to go through this torture. Even running the gauntlet in Tsarist Russia was only a one time occurrence which someone might or might not come out alive. This is slow and constant torture which clearly falls into the category of “cruel and unusual punishment” (Rishess Bla”z). Kosher food is FORBIDDEN BY LAW! Only ONE meal a day!
It seems to me that the Orientals have no feelings for each other (after all their jails were created by their own), and when your neighbor or even brother is in jail (tortured) you go on with your life as if nothing ever happened. I would not have imagined that this still exists in a “civilized” country. Indeed let’s say with Kavoneh “Oleinu Leshabeiach La’Adoin Hakoil, Loseiss Gedulloh Leyoitzeir Bereishis SHELOI OSONU KEGOIYEI HO’AROTZOIS, VELOI SOMONU KeMiShPoChOiS HO’ADOMOH”. ”
"Kosher food is FORBIDDEN BY LAW! Only ONE meal a day!"
Kosher food is not forbidden by law, but in japanese prisons, all the prisoners are treated the same, there are no exceptions: They are not allowed to bring in kosher food for fear that this could give them advantages over the other prisoners.
Standart prison food is a bit of rice and soup for breakfast, a tray with rice, vegetables and fish or meat for lunch and rice and soup for dinner... For those who cannot afford the rice dish at noon just a bread roll
So with a bit of leniency, they could eat...
33
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:04 PM Meir Says:
“ I have no sufficient words for the above comments. If someone made a mistake who has the business to decide what thier punishment should be? Who decides how cruel it should be? Where is your Rachmanus? I thought that Rachmanus is in our Jewish genetical makeup- unless of coure the above comments are made by non-Jews! ”
We have eer miklot for those who kill beshogeg - so yes people are punished even for lack of intent.
34
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:03 PM efry Says:
“ what does this mean: "Nevertheless, when it comes to the mitzva of pidyon shevuyim, it doesn't make a difference if they knew or didn't know."
Anyone have a clue? Suppose someone knew he was definitely doing something illegal and dangerous (not necessarily the case here) then there's still a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim? So what's to stop someone from doing something illegal and dangerous if we all have an obligation to redeem him??
”
lehalacha { jewish law } in most cases , yes .
35
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:02 PM Liepa Says:
What might help, in my humble opiniion, is to organize a mass demonstration in front of the Japanese embassy to draw attention to their medieval judicial process. The Japanese usually shy away from such attention and negative publicity.
BTW, where can 1 contribute towards this great mitzva and cause.
Someone mentioned Shalit and Pollard ( 2 holy people, in my book). Unfortunately for Shalit, the animals holding him can't be negotiated with, these skunks want everything or nothing. But we must fight on every way possible. Pollard is another sad case and you are right we aren't doing enough for him.
36
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:02 PM Tanna Kamma Says:
“ how come no one has raised an issue that none, and i repeat, none of these heilige admorim have lifted a finger for yohonason pollard!!! not one has lifted a finger for Gilad Shalit!!!!
these teenagers, whether or not they knew, they still smuggled drugs. they still lied when asked if the packages they were carrying were theirs, and if they had been with them at all times that is asked to every single person when traveling between any 2 countries! they were paid to bring packages that they knew nothing about its contents into another country.
but lets look at pollard and shalit. these are people that put their neck on the line for jews with absolutely no monetary compensation! they have been in jail 20+ and 3+ years in confinement, in pretty harsh conditions. pollard was laid naked and hosed with ice water to give up names of jews who were 5th columnists in theis country, and refused as he knew of no such thing. shalit is in the hands of hamas1 and no asifus for them.
these admorim should be ashamed of themselves, and maybe since rabbonim always like to find stupid reason for things happening, maybe these kids are in jail, because the haimish oilem doesnt give a red cent of care to our 2 brothers languishing in jail all this time!!!!! ”
Do you know how many yidden made daily phone calls to the White House during the end of Bush's term? Also, Pollard has a wife and supporters that are working hard for his release, who should take up the case of the bocherim if not us? Shalit is in our prayers constantly, money is not the answer there, we are dealing with arab terrorists, not the Japanese government.
37
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:16 PM berel Says:
#1 you are ignorant in some yesodos of yiddishkeit...i wont bother to elaborate ..but you can start with brochos 5a middle of daf
38
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:16 PM me Says:
i know a yid thats jn a usa prison and he doesnt get kosher food either!! believe it or not!! its a fact. he lost almost 1/3 of his weight in a few months! japan isnt the worsed place yet!
39
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:10 PM Askupeh Says:
“ Do you know how many yidden made daily phone calls to the White House during the end of Bush's term? Also, Pollard has a wife and supporters that are working hard for his release, who should take up the case of the bocherim if not us? Shalit is in our prayers constantly, money is not the answer there, we are dealing with arab terrorists, not the Japanese government. ”
You are right, and right on target.
40
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:08 PM Askupeh Says:
“ We have eer miklot for those who kill beshogeg - so yes people are punished even for lack of intent. ”
What are you trying to say? What is your intent?
41
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:06 PM Askupeh Says:
“ "Kosher food is FORBIDDEN BY LAW! Only ONE meal a day!"
Kosher food is not forbidden by law, but in japanese prisons, all the prisoners are treated the same, there are no exceptions: They are not allowed to bring in kosher food for fear that this could give them advantages over the other prisoners.
Standart prison food is a bit of rice and soup for breakfast, a tray with rice, vegetables and fish or meat for lunch and rice and soup for dinner... For those who cannot afford the rice dish at noon just a bread roll
So with a bit of leniency, they could eat... ”
Thank you for being an unpaid lawyer and defender for Japan; even Lefnim Meshuras Hadin.
42
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:19 PM HaLeiVi Says:
“ Anonymous Says: Says:
“Be carefull how you speak to a father who lost his son in his lifetime!”
excuse me, #1 has every right to make a statement about the unfortunate event, since this "father" decided to use it to use it to blame an entire kehilah for the tragedy.
this guy is right. every time a rov or rebbe or whoever gets up and says such and such happened because of such and such, makes himself out to be a fool, as he clearly hasnt the foggiest idea what he is talking about, and if you will claim he does, then you are saying he is either one of the following, a child or a shotah,a s they are teh only ones who have nevuah today! and one more thing, when people, and i repeat people,, claim things happen for a certain reason, they are very possibly being over on saying false nevius, as many chassidim/talmidim afterwards go around using the actual term nevius! ”
To be able to recognize why something happened to you does not take Nevious. If and when you open a Gemara, you can see many instances of Chazal stating why things happen. But, it definately shouldn't be guessed at.
Another point: In the time of the Rishonim there were many Tzaddikim with the title or nickname Navi. (e.g. Rav Shmuel Hanavi)
43
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What might help, in my humble opiniion, is to organize a mass demonstration in front of the Japanese embassy to draw attention to their medieval judicial process. The Japanese usually shy away from such attention and negative publicity.
BTW, where can 1 contribute towards this great mitzva and cause.
Someone mentioned Shalit and Pollard ( 2 holy people, in my book). Unfortunately for Shalit, the animals holding him can't be negotiated with, these skunks want everything or nothing. But we must fight on every way possible. Pollard is another sad case and you are right we aren't doing enough for him.
”
I'm confused. Why can't the Rabbis that are visiting these boys convince them to eat the rice, bread, and perhaps fish. If they are fainting from hunger, then surely a leniency applies. It's so unlikely that the rice or bread has non-kosher ingredients.
44
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:00 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What might help, in my humble opiniion, is to organize a mass demonstration in front of the Japanese embassy to draw attention to their medieval judicial process. The Japanese usually shy away from such attention and negative publicity.
BTW, where can 1 contribute towards this great mitzva and cause.
Someone mentioned Shalit and Pollard ( 2 holy people, in my book). Unfortunately for Shalit, the animals holding him can't be negotiated with, these skunks want everything or nothing. But we must fight on every way possible. Pollard is another sad case and you are right we aren't doing enough for him.
”
I'm not sure that would help. It sounds like they want it to be known they have a very harsh, no exceptions, policy on drugs. I think it's pretty awful, but it probably saves a lot of lives.
45
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:55 PM Anonymous Says:
“ how come no one has raised an issue that none, and i repeat, none of these heilige admorim have lifted a finger for yohonason pollard!!! not one has lifted a finger for Gilad Shalit!!!!
these teenagers, whether or not they knew, they still smuggled drugs. they still lied when asked if the packages they were carrying were theirs, and if they had been with them at all times that is asked to every single person when traveling between any 2 countries! they were paid to bring packages that they knew nothing about its contents into another country.
but lets look at pollard and shalit. these are people that put their neck on the line for jews with absolutely no monetary compensation! they have been in jail 20+ and 3+ years in confinement, in pretty harsh conditions. pollard was laid naked and hosed with ice water to give up names of jews who were 5th columnists in theis country, and refused as he knew of no such thing. shalit is in the hands of hamas1 and no asifus for them.
these admorim should be ashamed of themselves, and maybe since rabbonim always like to find stupid reason for things happening, maybe these kids are in jail, because the haimish oilem doesnt give a red cent of care to our 2 brothers languishing in jail all this time!!!!! ”
Yonoson Pollard knew he was doing something illegal
46
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:37 PM e. grossmann Says:
“ I'm not sure that would help. It sounds like they want it to be known they have a very harsh, no exceptions, policy on drugs. I think it's pretty awful, but it probably saves a lot of lives. ”
Not only would demonstrations in front of japanese embassies not help, since the judicial system is completely independent in Japan (as it should be under the rule of law), but it would also be countraproductive, since japanese do not like to be bashed for enforcing the laws in their country.
As I told you, the best defense strategy is: We are happy you caught us, do whatever you want.
47
Jul 16, 2009 at 04:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ #1 you are ignorant in some yesodos of yiddishkeit...i wont bother to elaborate ..but you can start with brochos 5a middle of daf ”
So, Berel, you're telling me that people can determine why things happen today? Maybe you could tell us where we can find the reasons for the Holocaust or why innocent children get abused. Remember that even Moshe Rabbeinu was denied the reasons for Tzadik v'Ra Lo. Also a basic Gemarah. Sounds like you're the one who needs to spend a little more time in the Bais Medrash.
48
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:50 PM nyfunnyman Says:
why didn't they just make the asifah in the country?
49
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:01 PM mom Says:
oy....makes me cry.
50
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:01 PM Dave Says:
“ you appear very ignorant senseless and heartless.. a bit of common sense, those "drugs" were hidden inside the bottoms of suitcases, some loose "antiques" were open in the suitcases to fool the bocherim, they are as innocent as possible, and go check your own books how perfect you are, before you judge innocent young yeshiva boys.
”
My books are fine. For some reason, I suppose it is cultural, frei yidden don't seem to have been given the same training in shtick.
And where did you get this information that the "antiques" were in the open? Previous articles on VIN have made it clear that the boys were told the antiques were in hidden compartments to protect them during travel.
But, simple question. Did they declare the antiques at customs, yes or no? If yes, then I would agree that they didn't intend to smuggle antiques. If no, intent seems likewise clear.
51
Jul 16, 2009 at 03:00 PM efry Says:
“ "When my son R' Benzion was killed a year ago, I said it had happened because of a controversy that had broken out in the city."
Who told him this was the case? I have very little respect for these types of statements, because we certainly lack Ruach HaKodesh. ”
a father and mother can feel deep in their heart why a punishment was rendered to them ...יודע אדם נפש בהמתו there is alot of evidence in are teachings on this subject of yesurim etc. so get off the net start learning at least 2 hours a day so you can gain basic knowledge in talmud and sayings of our sages, this has nothing to do with Ruach Hakodesh you are lucky your comment is anonymous here ,in bais hamedrish your comment would classify you as an '' am ha'artz " with a deploma !!
52
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:49 PM Liepa Says:
“ So they won't eat bread or fish?
If they had been as scrupulous in their behavior earlier, they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Or is such delicacy only for kashrus?
What has never been explained is, if they are so innocent, and so honest, why they didn't declare the antiques at customs? Had they done so, and explained that they were meeting someone who was to bring the money for any import duties, they would have been fine.
Instead, while I believe that they did not intend to smuggle drugs into Japan, it looks pretty clear that they intended to smuggle the antiques past customs.
”
Regardless of how you feel about what they should or shouldn't have said or done. The fact remains that no one should suffer this kind of punishment and retribution that's being meted out by these cold blooded kamikaze Japs. Enough said.
53
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:49 PM maybe the reason is.... Says:
“ Shalit you are right but Pollard gave classified info to Israel which is against the law in the USA just as smuggling drugs in Japan and what beside tefillah for Shalit do you want them to do hire a lawyer will that help his release? ”
yes, but pollard got nothing in return, where these teens were paid. and as far as shalit, you ask what besides tefillah can be done. well they can at least do that for starters, and they can also call on their followers to slam the phone lines in washington, london, belgium and israel, where they almost all have followers. make noise! show the shalit family that they care! show that shabbos keeping jews care about the safety of our brother. show the pollards taht even if some dont agree on the medina, a person who selflisly gave of himself to protect jews in harms way in eretz yisroel is do be lauded, not ignored!
i have yet to see them ever come together for an asifa when it isnt one of their own. and before you say that its goes the other way, that is nonsense, the mizrachi movement always comes ot the aid of the chareidi! (and im chareidi before anyone says im some hater)
54
Jul 16, 2009 at 02:45 PM Liepa Says:
“ what does this mean: "Nevertheless, when it comes to the mitzva of pidyon shevuyim, it doesn't make a difference if they knew or didn't know."
Anyone have a clue? Suppose someone knew he was definitely doing something illegal and dangerous (not necessarily the case here) then there's still a mitzva of pidyon shvuyim? So what's to stop someone from doing something illegal and dangerous if we all have an obligation to redeem him??
”
#3 You don't make sense at all. Do you for 1 moment think that someone would commit a crime, any crime with the thought in mind that they'll get redeemed if they're caught? What are you smoking?
55
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:54 PM Avrumy Says:
Do a little research on the net what kind of fate awaits these boys. It should make us all shudder. After this ordeal is over and the boys are successfully returned home, let's all take upon ourselves to educate our children and maybe not keep them so sheltered so they are able to understand the risks and that they will be able to go out and work if they need money to go daven at kevorim in Europe.
56
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:54 PM tzoorba Says:
“ yes, but pollard got nothing in return, where these teens were paid. and as far as shalit, you ask what besides tefillah can be done. well they can at least do that for starters, and they can also call on their followers to slam the phone lines in washington, london, belgium and israel, where they almost all have followers. make noise! show the shalit family that they care! show that shabbos keeping jews care about the safety of our brother. show the pollards taht even if some dont agree on the medina, a person who selflisly gave of himself to protect jews in harms way in eretz yisroel is do be lauded, not ignored!
i have yet to see them ever come together for an asifa when it isnt one of their own. and before you say that its goes the other way, that is nonsense, the mizrachi movement always comes ot the aid of the chareidi! (and im chareidi before anyone says im some hater) ”
Please give examples of Mizrachi coming out for chareidim because I have never heard of this.
Many chareidim were present for the levaya of the talmidim of Mercaz Harav that were killed al kiddush Hashem. I believe it was a chareidi who donated 8 sifrei Torah to them.
57
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:50 PM Dave Says:
“ yes, but pollard got nothing in return, where these teens were paid. and as far as shalit, you ask what besides tefillah can be done. well they can at least do that for starters, and they can also call on their followers to slam the phone lines in washington, london, belgium and israel, where they almost all have followers. make noise! show the shalit family that they care! show that shabbos keeping jews care about the safety of our brother. show the pollards taht even if some dont agree on the medina, a person who selflisly gave of himself to protect jews in harms way in eretz yisroel is do be lauded, not ignored!
i have yet to see them ever come together for an asifa when it isnt one of their own. and before you say that its goes the other way, that is nonsense, the mizrachi movement always comes ot the aid of the chareidi! (and im chareidi before anyone says im some hater) ”
Pollard was paid. Where did you get the notion that he wasn't?
58
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:47 PM Anonymous Says:
“ yes, but pollard got nothing in return, where these teens were paid. and as far as shalit, you ask what besides tefillah can be done. well they can at least do that for starters, and they can also call on their followers to slam the phone lines in washington, london, belgium and israel, where they almost all have followers. make noise! show the shalit family that they care! show that shabbos keeping jews care about the safety of our brother. show the pollards taht even if some dont agree on the medina, a person who selflisly gave of himself to protect jews in harms way in eretz yisroel is do be lauded, not ignored!
i have yet to see them ever come together for an asifa when it isnt one of their own. and before you say that its goes the other way, that is nonsense, the mizrachi movement always comes ot the aid of the chareidi! (and im chareidi before anyone says im some hater) ”
Have you any idea how many people the Munkatcher helps that you don't consider "one of their own". If anyone doesn't diffrentiate between Yidden it's all of these amazing chesed organizations, 90% of which are run by chareidim.
59
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:41 PM Anonymous Says:
Please do anything you can to add it kedusha for all our fellow Yidden sitting in prisons, suffering and the like. We can do ours to make Moshiach come faster.
Sitting in judgement over other Yidden does not make matters better. It might make you feel better for the moment, but deep down you know it's not the Yiddishe way.
Stop looking at someone else's plate and start looking at your own.
GET TO WORK.
60
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:38 PM Just wondering Says:
“ #3 You don't make sense at all. Do you for 1 moment think that someone would commit a crime, any crime with the thought in mind that they'll get redeemed if they're caught? What are you smoking? ”
Well, when the rav said that we are obligated to redeem them no matter how innocent or not they are, that is the insinuation.
I agree the punishment does not fit the crime, yet they are not innocent. 100 flags must have been raised during the "negotiation" phase, and they chose to ignore them. For example, they were each paid $1,000 to take suitcases to Japan and not to let those suitcases out of their sites. Already that's a red flag. And what parent lets their 17 year old kid go to Japan by themselves? Why did everyone ignore these and 100 other questions? They're innocent in the sense that they didn't know they were taking drugs, but they are guilty of not checking into something very fishy-sounding first.
No comparison to Pollard who broke the law so that the Jews in Israel would get needed information to save their collective lives.
61
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:18 PM Anonymous Says:
“ a father and mother can feel deep in their heart why a punishment was rendered to them ...יודע אדם נפש בהמתו there is alot of evidence in are teachings on this subject of yesurim etc. so get off the net start learning at least 2 hours a day so you can gain basic knowledge in talmud and sayings of our sages, this has nothing to do with Ruach Hakodesh you are lucky your comment is anonymous here ,in bais hamedrish your comment would classify you as an '' am ha'artz " with a deploma !! ”
Well, Efry, then maybe YOU can tell us why even Moshe Rabeinu was denied the knowledge of why we have "Tzadik v'Ra Lo".
As to your accusation of my being an "am ha'artz", I'd simply answer with the classic "Kol Haposel, b'Mumo Posel".
V'hameivin yovin.
62
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:07 PM Straight Thinker Says:
“ So, Berel, you're telling me that people can determine why things happen today? Maybe you could tell us where we can find the reasons for the Holocaust or why innocent children get abused. Remember that even Moshe Rabbeinu was denied the reasons for Tzadik v'Ra Lo. Also a basic Gemarah. Sounds like you're the one who needs to spend a little more time in the Bais Medrash. ”
Learn some Chovas Halvovois and you will learn how to identify the reason of a tragedy. the Holocaust? Read Rabbi Avigdor Millers Books and you will 'clearly' understand why Hashem sent it upon us. why we deserved it.
no doubt, that when needed, Hashem sends us messages, he has always done it, and to say that we have no right why Hashem sent it to us is foolish.
not that there is only one reason behind each tragedy, but at least one that we can, and supposed to learnit.
and Moshe Rabbainu was denied the reason of a General principal. there was no tragedy that happened, that Moshe Rabbainu didnt know the reason for it, when People started to dye, he knew there was a reason to it. and so forth.
Hashem made the tragedy today, for us, so he he inteds us to learn from it. and you r missing thr opportunity..
I dont know who gave you a course in Hashkafa...
63
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:20 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Yonoson Pollard knew he was doing something illegal ”
And smuggling drug’s or event antiquities is legal?
64
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ i know a yid thats jn a usa prison and he doesnt get kosher food either!! believe it or not!! its a fact. he lost almost 1/3 of his weight in a few months! japan isnt the worsed place yet! ”
Sometime losing weight is healthy,
65
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:16 PM Pidyon shvuyim does not apply in all cases Says:
Just for the record, pidyon shvuyim does not apply in all cases. The Torah recognizes the need to punish criminals, no matter how 'frum' they are.
When was the last time you heard people asking for pidyon shvuyim' for Bernie M.? Obviously it does not apply in all cases.
66
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:13 PM efry Says:
“ Well, Efry, then maybe YOU can tell us why even Moshe Rabeinu was denied the knowledge of why we have "Tzadik v'Ra Lo".
As to your accusation of my being an "am ha'artz", I'd simply answer with the classic "Kol Haposel, b'Mumo Posel".
V'hameivin yovin. ”
some things you can know because the gemora explains it so , and some things you cant know it's all in the gemora and medrish , what you are quoting is on different matters and on circumstance beyond knowledge that repeat it self in ones entire life and on that the gemora says ' tzdick vera lo', things that happen 'one time ' is not in the scope of tzdick vera lo if in general this person has or has had a good life.
67
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:29 PM boycot Says:
I say we should boycot everything from japan.
68
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Regardless of how you feel about what they should or shouldn't have said or done. The fact remains that no one should suffer this kind of punishment and retribution that's being meted out by these cold blooded kamikaze Japs. Enough said. ”
Sorry for your bigoted racist remarks, it is known that in the orient, punishment for crime is not child’s play, the interesting part is, that when the issues arise here in the states most religious Jews, will demand harsh treatment for criminals, as long they are not religious, “So you ask for it you got it TOYOTA”
69
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:58 PM thekvetcher Says:
where is the seichel in this ? either do it in front of the japanese embassy or all of these people should go to japan. further more why not have an Asifa to combat the types of people who got them in this mess to begin with.
70
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:42 PM me Says:
“ Sometime losing weight is healthy, ”
it depends how much weight you start with! this yid lost around 46 pounds! so now calculate it yourself..... (?)
71
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:37 PM thekvetcher Says:
where is the seichel in this ? either do it in front of the japanese embassy or all of these people should go to japan. further more why not have an Asifa to combat the types of people who got them in this mess to begin with.
72
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:33 PM Anonymous Says:
“ #3 You don't make sense at all. Do you for 1 moment think that someone would commit a crime, any crime with the thought in mind that they'll get redeemed if they're caught? What are you smoking? ”
I don’t know what you sniffing, but every person who commits a crime, know that they are committing, a crime but they make a calculated gamble that they will get away with the crime.
73
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:01 PM tzoorba Says:
What happened to the extradition to Israel that they were working on?
74
Jul 16, 2009 at 05:59 PM tzoorba Says:
“ So, Berel, you're telling me that people can determine why things happen today? Maybe you could tell us where we can find the reasons for the Holocaust or why innocent children get abused. Remember that even Moshe Rabbeinu was denied the reasons for Tzadik v'Ra Lo. Also a basic Gemarah. Sounds like you're the one who needs to spend a little more time in the Bais Medrash. ”
Rabbi Avigdor Miller z"l gave detailed reasons for what happened in the Holocaust.
He even has 1 tape where he shows a direct connection between the Nuremburg laws and certain practices of Jews of the time.
There are others that disagree with him such as Rav Shimon Schwab z"l but Rav Miller's opinion was one of an adom godol.
Hashem punishes people mida cneged mida so that they can figure out what they did wrong and correct it. It obviously isn't always clear but this doesn't mean that it never is.
75
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:08 PM e. grossmann Says:
“ where is the seichel in this ? either do it in front of the japanese embassy or all of these people should go to japan. further more why not have an Asifa to combat the types of people who got them in this mess to begin with. ”
They collect money, this is the seichel in this...
76
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:40 PM rachmoness Says:
“ So they won't eat bread or fish?
If they had been as scrupulous in their behavior earlier, they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Or is such delicacy only for kashrus?
What has never been explained is, if they are so innocent, and so honest, why they didn't declare the antiques at customs? Had they done so, and explained that they were meeting someone who was to bring the money for any import duties, they would have been fine.
Instead, while I believe that they did not intend to smuggle drugs into Japan, it looks pretty clear that they intended to smuggle the antiques past customs.
”
I'm sorry to tell you, that you don't have a heart, you have no fillings , no compassion...It's well known that YIDEN ARE "RACHMONIM BNEI RACHMONIM" so please check you backrounds...................................
77
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:38 PM Anonymous Says:
I want to address a different aspect of the Asifa. The article stated: "Most of those present had traveled in from the countryside to attend, and were provided refreshments after the lengthy trip."
The Asifa was called for 8:30, and I arrived at 8:45, to be on time. At that time the men's section was still quite empty, with waiters standing behind full smorgasbord tables running the entire back and side of the hall. There was subdued socializing going on to the strains of Acapella singing wafting in from the large suspended speakers. I was in total shock. I came to say Tehillim for three boys rotting away in a jail cell the size of a walk-in closet half a world away, and I arrived at a hall looking like a Simcha is taking place. When these three boys IY"H finally breathe the outside air and come home, do you think they'll be ready to get married? And here I am at a Tehillim gathering for them that appears to be a Sheva Brochos!
I think there is some serious "disconnect" here, if the "refreshments" provided need to be done in grand style, on behalf of boys who are fainting from hunger in their jail cell.
78
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:34 PM Anonymous Says:
I think many of us reading this story believe that the rabbonim are misguided in suggesting that yiddin have an obligation to help free inidividuals who clearly violated the law in a sovereign nation and now must suffer the consequences. In EY, they routinely jail foreign nationals for violating their drug laws. How can we then turn around and argue for special treatment for yiddin convicted in a foreign country. I suspect these rabbonim have not thought through the implications of their demands for "pidyon shavuim" on Israel's relationships with other countries under its own extradition treaties.
79
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:10 PM mendy Says:
“ "When my son R' Benzion was killed a year ago, I said it had happened because of a controversy that had broken out in the city."
Who told him this was the case? I have very little respect for these types of statements, because we certainly lack Ruach HaKodesh. ”
well i heard this same from a very gr8 tzadik , when 2 boys died in a overnight camp
its serious if u belive or not it doent change the fact
80
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:49 PM YG Says:
I am only commenting in clear and present protest of Dave who penned the 5th comment on the page. The words that I have for you would probably not get past the editors and on VIN news that's news. Out of 75 comments this one is the dumbest and numbest of them all. You certainly did not stand by mount sinai or at least I certainly hope not. Going with my assumption that you are a nisht gemalt when such a tragedy happens amongst our people especially the type of students who fell victim to a low life we know that they are completely innocent but by yours the chances are guilty. I would like to see more protests on #5 we must unite against him.
81
Jul 16, 2009 at 09:17 PM berel Says:
#47 more of your ignorance..the tzaddikum of the prvious genreration stated reasons it couldve come,, some even predicted the calamity that will befall,among the the holy chfetz chaim,nasader rebbe etc the main reason they mentioned is t'he haskalah' (the endarkenment)which created a fatel cancer in judaism..i heard this reason from the holy pevious skulener rebbe in 1972. the satmar rebbe has different reason see forword to sefer 'vayoel moshe'.problem with you leftys anti torah guys you think the world is hefker 'ish kol hayoshor beinov yaseh' and g-d is my pal and i can desecrate the torah and everything will be fine and dandy
82
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:37 PM Anonymous Says:
Why don't they do the same for Gilad Shalit?
83
Jul 16, 2009 at 11:01 PM Anonymous Says:
TACHLES PLEASE:
Whatever the motive for the gathering, at least there's some action and these boys aren't forgotten about.
But in addition to having a table to collect money:
#1) They should have had postcards (at least 3 index cards for each person) for people to fill out to be sent to the Japanese consulate in NYC/ ambassador in DC/ minister of Justice in Japan in protest.
#2) Additionally, you get CNN to cover the event or at least the local nightly news. ("If a tree falls in the forest and noone is around to hear, does it make a sound?")
#3) I hope the organizers have more seichel next time. And having a follow up protest in front of the Japanese consulate would be helpful.
#4) Learn from the experts who succeeded in freeing Sharansky and the other Russian refuseniks. Hello Ronnie Greenwald, Glenn Richter, Avi Weiss, Rabbi Jospeh Potasnik, Israel (Sruly)Singer, Yitz Greenberg, Charles Sheer. Can't you reach out to any of those famous activists for some guidance or do you think ahavas yisroel stops at the chasidishe line? Do you really want the boys released or a cause to just collect funds?
#5) The four main pressure points in addition to hiring lawyers is:
a)the Japanese govt
b)the US government
(Did you know on her first working day at 8AM, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called Japan's minister of foreign affairs, and her first trip overseas as the top US diplomat was to Japan in feb '09 ?) Furthermore, the Japanese aren't too happy about their neighbor N Korea launching ballistic missile tests just last week and they want US intervention. As concerned American citizens we have a right to protest human rights abuses just as much as we protest Darfur and elsewhere.
c) public opinion
d)American Jewish community.
#6) LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD :
Consul General Shinichi Nishimiya
299 Park Ave # 18
New York, NY 10171-0002
(212) 371-8222
Ambassador Ichero Fujisaki
2520 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20008
(Main) Tel: 202-238-6700, Fax: 202-328-2187
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton
U.S. Department of State (Main) Tel: 202-647-4000
State Dept Japan desk chief (202) 647-3152
2201 C Street NW
Washington, DC 20520
84
Jul 16, 2009 at 09:22 PM e. grossmann Says:
“ So they won't eat bread or fish?
If they had been as scrupulous in their behavior earlier, they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Or is such delicacy only for kashrus?
What has never been explained is, if they are so innocent, and so honest, why they didn't declare the antiques at customs? Had they done so, and explained that they were meeting someone who was to bring the money for any import duties, they would have been fine.
Instead, while I believe that they did not intend to smuggle drugs into Japan, it looks pretty clear that they intended to smuggle the antiques past customs.
”
You are completely right. One should keep a sense of proportion.
I heard once that Rabin's murderer was on hunger strike because he did not receive "kosher enough" food.
Do you really think this will change so much after what he did?
this kind of "chumres" is nothing but making the torah look ridiculous.
85
Jul 16, 2009 at 11:57 PM Liepa Says:
To all you semi-believers in 'Pidyon She'vyim'. It's innocent until proven guilty i.e. 'dann l'kaff z'chus' and not guilty until proven innocent.
86
Jul 17, 2009 at 01:21 AM Emunah Says:
“ "When my son R' Benzion was killed a year ago, I said it had happened because of a controversy that had broken out in the city."
Who told him this was the case? I have very little respect for these types of statements, because we certainly lack Ruach HaKodesh. ”
One thing for sure, anyone who accepts such a loss with so much grace whilst blaming others AND himself without complaints to the Almighty, is nothing short of a Tzaddik!
87
Jul 17, 2009 at 06:38 AM professor Says:
“ TACHLES PLEASE:
Whatever the motive for the gathering, at least there's some action and these boys aren't forgotten about.
But in addition to having a table to collect money:
#1) They should have had postcards (at least 3 index cards for each person) for people to fill out to be sent to the Japanese consulate in NYC/ ambassador in DC/ minister of Justice in Japan in protest.
#2) Additionally, you get CNN to cover the event or at least the local nightly news. ("If a tree falls in the forest and noone is around to hear, does it make a sound?")
#3) I hope the organizers have more seichel next time. And having a follow up protest in front of the Japanese consulate would be helpful.
#4) Learn from the experts who succeeded in freeing Sharansky and the other Russian refuseniks. Hello Ronnie Greenwald, Glenn Richter, Avi Weiss, Rabbi Jospeh Potasnik, Israel (Sruly)Singer, Yitz Greenberg, Charles Sheer. Can't you reach out to any of those famous activists for some guidance or do you think ahavas yisroel stops at the chasidishe line? Do you really want the boys released or a cause to just collect funds?
#5) The four main pressure points in addition to hiring lawyers is:
a)the Japanese govt
b)the US government
(Did you know on her first working day at 8AM, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called Japan's minister of foreign affairs, and her first trip overseas as the top US diplomat was to Japan in feb '09 ?) Furthermore, the Japanese aren't too happy about their neighbor N Korea launching ballistic missile tests just last week and they want US intervention. As concerned American citizens we have a right to protest human rights abuses just as much as we protest Darfur and elsewhere.
c) public opinion
d)American Jewish community.
#6) LET YOUR VOICES BE HEARD :
Consul General Shinichi Nishimiya
299 Park Ave # 18
New York, NY 10171-0002
(212) 371-8222
Ambassador Ichero Fujisaki
2520 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20008
(Main) Tel: 202-238-6700, Fax: 202-328-2187
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton
U.S. Department of State (Main) Tel: 202-647-4000
State Dept Japan desk chief (202) 647-3152
2201 C Street NW
Washington, DC 20520
”
ronnie greenwald was quoted inthis case that it would not be wise to try to force the japanese's hand. they don't take kindly to it. it is clear these kids were set up. i don't understand why the first kid was convicted, but with good lawyering, the truth should prevail.
88
Jul 17, 2009 at 08:04 AM You gotta a point but...... Says:
“ how come no one has raised an issue that none, and i repeat, none of these heilige admorim have lifted a finger for yohonason pollard!!! not one has lifted a finger for Gilad Shalit!!!!
these teenagers, whether or not they knew, they still smuggled drugs. they still lied when asked if the packages they were carrying were theirs, and if they had been with them at all times that is asked to every single person when traveling between any 2 countries! they were paid to bring packages that they knew nothing about its contents into another country.
but lets look at pollard and shalit. these are people that put their neck on the line for jews with absolutely no monetary compensation! they have been in jail 20+ and 3+ years in confinement, in pretty harsh conditions. pollard was laid naked and hosed with ice water to give up names of jews who were 5th columnists in theis country, and refused as he knew of no such thing. shalit is in the hands of hamas1 and no asifus for them.
these admorim should be ashamed of themselves, and maybe since rabbonim always like to find stupid reason for things happening, maybe these kids are in jail, because the haimish oilem doesnt give a red cent of care to our 2 brothers languishing in jail all this time!!!!! ”
'how come no one has raised an issue that none, and i repeat, none of these heilige admorim have lifted a finger for yohonason pollard!!! '
Hope to the omnious Almight y that he is soon freed. However, dont forget his crime is considered one of the worst. He was a spy.
These boys were screwed by low life who convinced them to bring these 'antiques' and assured them that nothing will happen to them....
89
Jul 17, 2009 at 08:44 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Learn some Chovas Halvovois and you will learn how to identify the reason of a tragedy. the Holocaust? Read Rabbi Avigdor Millers Books and you will 'clearly' understand why Hashem sent it upon us. why we deserved it.
no doubt, that when needed, Hashem sends us messages, he has always done it, and to say that we have no right why Hashem sent it to us is foolish.
not that there is only one reason behind each tragedy, but at least one that we can, and supposed to learnit.
and Moshe Rabbainu was denied the reason of a General principal. there was no tragedy that happened, that Moshe Rabbainu didnt know the reason for it, when People started to dye, he knew there was a reason to it. and so forth.
Hashem made the tragedy today, for us, so he he inteds us to learn from it. and you r missing thr opportunity..
I dont know who gave you a course in Hashkafa... ”
''Read Rabbi Avigdor Millers Books and you will 'clearly' understand why Hashem sent it upon us. why we deserved it. '
Altough your intentions are good , please be a little more sensitive in your wording!
90
Jul 17, 2009 at 09:28 AM David Says:
The boys were probably duped by a wicked man. Nevertheless, they knew they were smuggling something, even if they didn't know it was drugs. And they knew it was illegal. They were caught; now, they're going to have to pay the price, and I see nothing but simple justice in that. As to their care in kashrut, it's commendable. If they exercised half as much care in not breaking criminal laws, they wouldn't be in prison worried about how to keep kosher. Sorry, folks, but this is a failure of the yeshiva system that taught them to be scrupulous about their observance of Hashem's law, and negligent with regard to other laws. But dina d'malkhusa dina is also Hashem's law, as they should have been taught. Perhaps they can spend the next few years reflecting on that.
91
Jul 17, 2009 at 09:44 AM chaim Says:
#89 i hjave to hanmmer home that the velt is nisht hefker 'is din veis dayan'
92
Jul 17, 2009 at 10:38 AM Askupeh Says:
“ I think many of us reading this story believe that the rabbonim are misguided in suggesting that yiddin have an obligation to help free inidividuals who clearly violated the law in a sovereign nation and now must suffer the consequences. In EY, they routinely jail foreign nationals for violating their drug laws. How can we then turn around and argue for special treatment for yiddin convicted in a foreign country. I suspect these rabbonim have not thought through the implications of their demands for "pidyon shavuim" on Israel's relationships with other countries under its own extradition treaties. ”
Go learn Torah and it will answer all your questions, and you will start thinking like a Yid. You can start here on the internet. Search for Pirkei Ovoth for starters.
93
Jul 17, 2009 at 11:35 AM David Says:
“ Go learn Torah and it will answer all your questions, and you will start thinking like a Yid. You can start here on the internet. Search for Pirkei Ovoth for starters. ”
Sorry, but that's a completely non-responsive and irrelevant comment. If you disagree with someone's point, state the basis for your disagreement and try to persuade that person with intelligent arguments. Don't arrogantly dismiss another person by telling him that he needs to "go learn Torah," or suggesting that he doesn't think properly. Who told you that you're such a great thinker that you can go around peddling this kind of advice?
94
Aug 02, 2009 at 11:51 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So they won't eat bread or fish?
If they had been as scrupulous in their behavior earlier, they wouldn't be in this situation to begin with.
Or is such delicacy only for kashrus?
What has never been explained is, if they are so innocent, and so honest, why they didn't declare the antiques at customs? Had they done so, and explained that they were meeting someone who was to bring the money for any import duties, they would have been fine.
Instead, while I believe that they did not intend to smuggle drugs into Japan, it looks pretty clear that they intended to smuggle the antiques past customs.
”
That is just it! They are guilty ,not of smuggling drugs as they were unaware,but they knew they were sneaking in 'antiqiues' at the very least.They got caught to teach other young boys NOT to do such things!