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Jerusalem - Mir Rosh Yeshiva to Students: Don't Go to Demonstrations |
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Jul 16, 2009 at 06:07 PM
News Source: Ladaat.net / IsraelNN
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The note reads:
"To all the students of the holy yeshiva,
No one should be anywhere near any of the demonstrations, with no exceptions and no leniencies."
Jerusalem Police Chief Aharon Franko had criticized rabbis and other hareidi leaders for not calling to stop the demonstrations, (as was reported earleir here on VIN News).
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Read Comments (67) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:15 PM Anonymous Says:
What took so long
2
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:11 PM yenta Says:
RNZF is most probably THE tzaddik hador today. my son learned there, so i should know.
3
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:26 PM cp Says:
At last. There still are real gedolim!!
4
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:55 PM Anonymous Says:
I just wounder if the R"Y would write this letter had it been his daughter being the target of this chiloni lynch.
5
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:54 PM Anonymous Says:
Very good, some yeshivos know the ins and outs, and let d bocherim go "only" to the mass prayers, and to the "core" of the protests, so those bocherim aren't there to burn dumpsters and do wild things, they're just doing the great mitzva of kidush Hashem while protesting the evil deeds in the hoky city of Yerushalayim.
But at some big yeshivos its very hard to control and keep track of who's missing, there may be no control ever to see who's still at large, so they may ban the bocherim from attending those protests, as to avoid headaches for their bocherim.
6
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:58 PM Jacob Says:
Anyone who knows the Rosheshiva, shlite, knows it's not shayach that he penned that letter.
7
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:43 PM Disgusted Says:
Um . . . he just said that his students should not go near the demonstrations. He did NOT, however, criticize the demonstrations in any way. It is beyond comprehension that there is not a single "leader" capable of calling these demonstrators what they really are - barbarians who are an embarrassment to all Torah observant Jews. Disgusting.
8
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:42 PM Anonymous Says:
What a busha so we should let this lady sit in jail?
9
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:41 PM Anonymous Says:
doesn't he have a typewriter?
10
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:04 PM Anonymous Says:
Oh, Franco is here all of a sudden..
How about Mr. Franco denounce the sins and persecution of the Torah and the charedim going on systematically in Jerusalem by the "official" authorities?
How about Franco denouncing the horrific police brutality by "his" cronies?
How about Franco denouncing the vicious treatment and continuous abuse of charedim in Israeli courts and in the hands of Israeli (especially Jerusalem) police officers?
As long as you don't understand diplomacy, as long as the "one and only" language you understand is by protesting, the demonstrations will continue by all means.
11
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:41 PM Anonymous Says:
v'cayn yirbu
12
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:38 PM Anonymous Says:
Is this to say that until now it was OK for Mir students to go?????
13
Jul 16, 2009 at 06:30 PM Anonymous Says:
Previously when I said that an Erhliche Yid should not go to any Hafganos I was attacked as not being frum enough. I guess maybe I was right.
14
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:24 PM no means no Says:
Rav Nosson Tzvi wrote in hebrew, 'not to attend any demonstrations with no exceptions', not the ones about the lady and not for shabbos.
15
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Oh, Franco is here all of a sudden..
How about Mr. Franco denounce the sins and persecution of the Torah and the charedim going on systematically in Jerusalem by the "official" authorities?
How about Franco denouncing the horrific police brutality by "his" cronies?
How about Franco denouncing the vicious treatment and continuous abuse of charedim in Israeli courts and in the hands of Israeli (especially Jerusalem) police officers?
As long as you don't understand diplomacy, as long as the "one and only" language you understand is by protesting, the demonstrations will continue by all means. ”
Very well said! couldn't say it better.
the entire leadership in Israel is biased against charedim, and there's no democracy at all, in democratic country you'd see police acting like this, even to murderers and rapists the polic have to act fragile and gentle, if a police officer gives a kick to a violent criminal, he's facing charges, but not in Israel, atleast not when a charedi is involved.
16
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Anyone who knows the Rosheshiva, shlite, knows it's not shayach that he penned that letter. ”
anyone who REALLY knows the rosh yeshiva, shlita, knows that it is his handwriting, and he did write it
17
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:43 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Previously when I said that an Erhliche Yid should not go to any Hafganos I was attacked as not being frum enough. I guess maybe I was right. ”
Clarification: the rosh did NOT ban the protests, he just wrote the letter for his "bochurim".
No real godul would ban the protests to defend the ehrliche yidden and kedushas yerushalayim fron the hands of those desecrating it.
18
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:39 PM Anonymous Says:
Reb Noson Tzvi is Gaon and a Godol Hador. He is a lot smarter than the rest of us. He is not commenting on whether the hafganos are right or wrong - 'perhaps' he feels they're wrong but won't publicly disagree with other Gedolim. All he is saying is as a Rosh Yeshiva none of his bochurim should attend - which is his indesputable right and responsibility.
The least we can give a Godol is the benefit of the doubt - its also a mitzva.
19
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Anyone who knows the Rosheshiva, shlite, knows it's not shayach that he penned that letter. ”
sorry but the rosh yeshiva still writes even with his advanced illness. i've seen it myself not too long ago during weekly chaburos in his house. also it was not uncommon for a sign clearly written by him to be hung in yeshiva. probably the note is so short and to the main point because he wrote it himself.
20
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:26 PM Anonymous Says:
does he talk about the "women in jail" protest or the "shabos kodesh" protest
21
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Um . . . he just said that his students should not go near the demonstrations. He did NOT, however, criticize the demonstrations in any way. It is beyond comprehension that there is not a single "leader" capable of calling these demonstrators what they really are - barbarians who are an embarrassment to all Torah observant Jews. Disgusting. ”
Disgusting? what about the DISGUSTING actions of the Israeli authorities to innocent civilians? isn't it disgusting the way the mishtara is brutally beating demonstrators as well as innocent bystanders? isn't it disgusting the way they are mishandling the holy Shabbos issues in the holiest city? what about the vicious and disgusting way of handling this innocent Yerushalmi woman mother of a few more yiddishe kinderlech?
The protesters can't even compare or come close to the disgusting brutal heartless actions of the Zionist (unfortunately Jewish) leadership, the charedim try to act likewise, but they're still not a match.
22
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:09 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Anyone who knows the Rosheshiva, shlite, knows it's not shayach that he penned that letter. ”
who says it was his handwriting . maybe just maybe he asked his wife or talmid to write it . not sure what your trying to prove
23
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:09 PM MP Says:
“ What took so long ”
Better late than never!
Let's see which rabbanim will join the cause and stop these lawless hooligans.
24
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:08 PM Mir Talmid Says:
The Rosh Yeshiva Didn't speak agianst the protesting,
Though I doubt he condones the wild actions of some.
However he just said his bochurim should not go & stay in Yeshiva & learn
That's what a Yeshiva Bochur is supposed to do & that's why they're there!!
the z'chus Hatorah will help more than acting like goyim & throwing stones!!!
25
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:08 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Anyone who knows the Rosheshiva, shlite, knows it's not shayach that he penned that letter. ”
and you think that all the pashkevillin is penned by the signers they claim?
26
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:07 PM by the way Says:
The letter is "UNLY" for his students as reported
27
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What a busha so we should let this lady sit in jail? ”
if you abused and starved your child we would want you to sit in jail too. why do u seem so surprized??
28
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:47 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What a busha so we should let this lady sit in jail? ”
mah inyan zeh aytzel har sinai???
29
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:46 PM Anonymous Says:
At least there is one Rav who understands that he must accept the directives of the police chief in these matters. Hopefully, the other roshei yeshivot and chareidi gadolim will quickly obey the police and issue similiar directives.
30
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:46 PM mendy Says:
“ Previously when I said that an Erhliche Yid should not go to any Hafganos I was attacked as not being frum enough. I guess maybe I was right. ”
hey ! wat about " tho shall not stan by yr brothers blood ? " wat does reb finkel say about that ?????????
31
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:05 PM Anonymous Says:
“ RNZF is most probably THE tzaddik hador today. my son learned there, so i should know. ”
does your son think so too?
32
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Clarification: the rosh did NOT ban the protests, he just wrote the letter for his "bochurim".
No real godul would ban the protests to defend the ehrliche yidden and kedushas yerushalayim fron the hands of those desecrating it. ”
So what you're really saying is that anyone who disagrees with you can't be a REAL godol?
33
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:20 PM Anonymous Says:
“ hey ! wat about " tho shall not stan by yr brothers blood ? " wat does reb finkel say about that ????????? ”
Excellent point! We should NOT stand by our (emaciated/abused) brother's blood, AND... we should prevent his mother from doing any further damage!
34
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:52 PM Anonymous Says:
“ hey ! wat about " tho shall not stan by yr brothers blood ? " wat does reb finkel say about that ????????? ”
The ones running the protests are guilty of bloodshed.
35
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:49 PM dz Says:
I heard that the doctors starved the child, the Bikur Cholim volunteers that came to visit were not allowed to give candy to this poor little boy. but now, suddenly the boy is eating. and is allowed to eat. he now is sitting up for the first time in seven months.
His mother didnt leave his bedside.
Tho shall not stand by your brother's blood. (or sister's)
36
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:56 PM yoelyg Says:
mvatlin talmid torha mipnei pidyon shveyim
37
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:29 PM Anonymous Says:
May Hashem bless the Rov of the Mir, and may He bring only sorrow upon those who make a chillul Hashem with these demonstrations.
38
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ if you abused and starved your child we would want you to sit in jail too. why do u seem so surprized?? ”
Did you hear the other side of the story as well? or you're ought to buy only the antisemitic secular israeli press story?
According to Chofetz Chaim you're not allowed to believe their story, and you're mechuyav to believe the observant womans story, even though she's frum..
39
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:10 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Better late than never!
Let's see which rabbanim will join the cause and stop these lawless hooligans. ”
LAWLESS HOOLIGANS.. are you reffering to the Israeli police? yes, right expression, they are simply lawless, mannerless and heartless hooligans.
40
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:08 PM THE FACTS Says:
“ At least there is one Rav who understands that he must accept the directives of the police chief in these matters. Hopefully, the other roshei yeshivot and chareidi gadolim will quickly obey the police and issue similiar directives. ”
"obey the police"????????????????????????????????? wake up buddy!! the rosh yeshiva instructed the bochirim not to be around hafganos BEFORE the police chief made his statement.infact the irony is that it is likely that the Rosh Hayeshiva, had to make this statement because of the police who would arrest and beat up bochurim
41
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:02 PM Anonymous Says:
Reb Noson Tzvi is Gaon and a Godol Hador. He is a lot smarter than the rest of us. He is not commenting on whether the hafganos are right or wrong - 'perhaps' he feels they're wrong but won't publicly disagree with other Gedolim. All he is saying is as a Rosh Yeshiva none of his bochurim should attend - which is his indesputable right and responsibility.
The least we can give a Godol is the benefit of the doubt - its also a mitzva.
42
Jul 16, 2009 at 08:00 PM Golous Yeed Says:
if you believe anything the general Israeli media has to say regarding the chareidim you probably believe the BBC CNN et al when they "comment/judge" report on Israeli Palestinian scenarios, those feelings are all relative OPEN YOUR EYES!!
43
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ At least there is one Rav who understands that he must accept the directives of the police chief in these matters. Hopefully, the other roshei yeshivot and chareidi gadolim will quickly obey the police and issue similiar directives. ”
Finkel is to be commended for exercising sound judgement and conforming to the police request to shut down these demonstrations.
44
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:57 PM Anonymous Says:
Evry one should listen to his rebbe rosh yashiva mashgiach etc. They r all holy
45
Jul 16, 2009 at 07:54 PM dave Says:
I'm just interesting what was his respond if this lady was his daughter
46
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:25 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I'm just interesting what was his respond if this lady was his daughter ”
a few years ago rav nosson tzvi came back from a trip to america the buchurim came out to greet him. he poltely told them to go back inside and learn. i'm pretty sure he would say the samething if it was his daughter.
47
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:25 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I'm just interesting what was his respond if this lady was his daughter ”
Again: the rosh yeshiva didn't tell anybody not to go to the protest, he just told it to "his bichurim", I think everyone understands why its common sense to set up such a rule in his particular yeshiva.
No way would the rosh yeshiva give an issur on those holy protests when all gedoilei yisroel demand everybody should go.
48
Jul 16, 2009 at 10:05 PM Anonymous Says:
What was the R"H shita about protesting when he was perfactly healty did he go with the EIDA? Protesting is not a new thing it was the SHITA of most right wing GADOLIM and TZADIKIM to protest aginst CHILLIL SHOBOS without a permit.BTW the NATIRIE KARTA are aginst protesting aginst chillil shobos they belive that the most important thing is to protest agianst the STATE OF ZIONIST.
49
Jul 16, 2009 at 09:29 PM Anonymous Says:
It's no wonder that he issued those instructions. After a few American bochurim "learning" in the Mir where jailed for burning garbage cans, burning tires, etc, and generally having a "good" time - the R"Y had to get them out of prison.
They were caught on video by a lady from Meah Shearim when doing these "good" deeds - while screaming "Mirrer Midnight Madness".
American parents - wake up. Know what your sons are doing while "learning" in E"Y. Of course, you sent them there so that they can do a great shidduch. Girls' parents beware.
Hashem Yerachem.
By the way - this is all true!!!
50
Jul 16, 2009 at 11:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Finkel is to be commended for exercising sound judgement and conforming to the police request to shut down these demonstrations. ”
“Finkel is to be commended for exercising sound judgement and conforming to the police request to shut down these demonstrations.”
Perhaps you might refer to him as RABBI Finkel rather than like he was your buddy or a character in a Seinfeld episode. Have some respect whatever you think about his politics.
51
Jul 16, 2009 at 11:48 PM Mir Says:
“ What took so long ”
Instead of attacking the rosh yeshiva be dan leckaf zechus- There is a sign by every hafganah not to go. This is the first time that the Rosh Yeshiva wrote it in his own handwriting instead of signing a typed note. Just because you didn't know does not mean it didn't happen. By the way, another thing it doesn't seem most of the "posters" know is kavod for people greater then you.
52
Jul 17, 2009 at 12:25 AM Olam Hafuch Says:
“ Clarification: the rosh did NOT ban the protests, he just wrote the letter for his "bochurim".
No real godul would ban the protests to defend the ehrliche yidden and kedushas yerushalayim fron the hands of those desecrating it. ”
You remind me of a child whose mother tells him not to make trouble while she is taking a shabbos nap.
As soon as the mother awakens, the kid steals nosh, beats up is brother, and wakes up his father.
When the mother gets angry the FOOLISH CHILD responds:
How can you be upset?
I listened to you.
I didn't make any trouble WHILE YOU WERE SLEEPING.
This REAL Gadol is telling anyone who is interested in what he has to say... that they shouldn't even go NEAR the hafganos...
But YOU decided that he didn't REALLY mean it for most people.
After all, he didn't write the word BAN in his note.
Your Lomdus is inspiring.
Maybe you should learn in the Mir, so you can further read into the Rosh Yeshiva's straight forward, unambiguous directives, and find more subliminal messages to further your own agenda??
53
Jul 16, 2009 at 11:35 PM NB Says:
I don't understand something.
When the Hague and the world media calls Israeli police hooligans...we're outraged.
But when we're the ones feeling the brunt of hooliganism..all of a sudden theyre nazis and hooligans
??
54
Jul 17, 2009 at 01:01 AM Anonymous Says:
wait i have an idea. let's all just spew a bunch of @#$$ when we dont know what the hell we are talking about, don't know about the mir, don't know what really goes on in israel, don't know what the holy R' Finkel meant by the letter intended and clearly adressed to those that walk the halways in his yeshiva-not a bunch of bored social critics wasting their life online, seizing every oppotunity for LH.... oh wooops! a bunch of people already beat me to that
55
Jul 17, 2009 at 03:27 AM Anonymous Says:
walking home from yeshiva last night, i witnessed things i've never witnessed before and pray to never witness again. i stood frozen at a distance as total mayhem reigned the streets. what every post writes about police brutality cant be understated and its frightening, but the protesters were also way outta hand. Flower pots being dropped from building, lit firecrackers being thrown at police, hundreds of protesters charging into police barricades being manned by 10-12 cops... disgusting. both sides incite each other and these hafgonas are outta control. i pity this mother and her family and the terrible ordeal they're going through and she has certainly been part of my tfillos for a few days now, but there has gotta be a better way to resolve this! Rav Nosson Tzvi doesnt need my haskama but a yeshiva bochur has no business at these events. If one truly cared about this woman's plight, the biggest z'chus you can provide is to daven or sit down and learn. May we soon see the day of "oid yeishvu zkainim o'zkainos b'rechovos Yerushalayim"
56
Jul 17, 2009 at 06:09 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What a busha so we should let this lady sit in jail? ”
no to jail, it sounds like she need real psychiatric help
57
Jul 17, 2009 at 07:10 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I heard that the doctors starved the child, the Bikur Cholim volunteers that came to visit were not allowed to give candy to this poor little boy. but now, suddenly the boy is eating. and is allowed to eat. he now is sitting up for the first time in seven months.
His mother didnt leave his bedside.
Tho shall not stand by your brother's blood. (or sister's) ”
The child was on a feeding tube. Of course no one should give him candy to eat when he can't eat anything by mouth. Next time you listen to stupid rumors, check out the facts again. The fact is she removed his feeding tube and it's on the video monitor. She nearly killed her son. Be very glad she wasn't your mother under the same circumstances. Behaimas going out and setting fires (arson) and throwing rocks (assault and battery) belong in jail too.
58
Jul 17, 2009 at 07:03 AM shimon taylor Says:
I do agree, however, that it seems like it is a blood libel against religous/chareidi jews. Hardly any better than the blood libels of jews using blood of a goyshe child for matzos on pesach.
59
Jul 17, 2009 at 07:00 AM shimon taylor Says:
The Rosh Yeshiva has only one mitzva in this.
That he is answerable to all the families of the Bochorim, in Israel and abroad, if anything should chas v'sholom happen to any of them (by the wild police).
60
Jul 17, 2009 at 06:52 AM Cop Out Says:
Once again, there is a cop out on the part of leaders and 'rabbis'.. If you are a true leader, you come out strong on issues. Not be timid or swayed by public opinion or idiots with money. There is no 'torah' today, as it is easily bought by people with money. The 'yeshivah & bais yaakov systems' have become a money business and the leaders are just figureheads. They have to succumb to wishes from 'askonim'. What a bunch of losers.
R. Aaron Kotler would not have been swayed by money. He w ould have given fiery talks against these hooligans who are not jews, nor humans, rather A N I MALS!
61
Jul 17, 2009 at 07:49 AM cool masmid Says:
“ I just wounder if the R"Y would write this letter had it been his daughter being the target of this chiloni lynch.
”
How dare you question a Gadol Hador like that....... Shame on you!!! I have no doubt his decision was made based on his moral clarity and not some outside influence or pressure.
62
Jul 17, 2009 at 07:41 AM Anonymous Says:
to all those commenting how the RY finally wrote a letter etc... he dosent need ur haskamos its only that you interpert his letter according to your opinion guedd what even if he told his bochrim not to go its not because he agrees with all the self haters.
63
Jul 17, 2009 at 07:30 AM Anonymous Says:
The Eda should have acted reasonably, not like the behaymos they are! A request to the courts for the child to be transferred,tested, and treated in another hospital (i.e. Shaarei Tzedek, for example) could have readily disclosed if this child had chemotherapy or not. Certainly with the alleged corroborating evidence of a video showing, allegedly, the mother interferring with her child's nutrition, she should have been encouraged by her family to undergo testing for this disorder. Instead it was the decision of some to take to the streets, to add to the scandals that desecrate Hkb'h's name: the Madoff and other yiddishe led frauds, the Shabbos parking lot scandal (that would probably have been unnecessary had Gerrer Rebbe not brought down the frum mayoral candidate whom the Rebbe felt dissed him),etc, etc, ad nauseum. We need Rabbonim who are more mesunim ba-din and find better solutions to problems than emulating the riots of the American Negro communities.
64
Jul 17, 2009 at 07:59 AM cool masmid Says:
Can someone please tell me why could all those demonstrators(I don't want to call names- but there are better words) try to accomplish whatever their goal is with peaceful demonstrations. If there would be a huge peaceful demonstration I'm willing to bet that they would accomplish a whole lot more than the way this way that they have chosen. I would like to know one gadol that could advocate this kind of behaviour. The chilul Hashem is unimaginable.
65
Jul 17, 2009 at 08:39 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Um . . . he just said that his students should not go near the demonstrations. He did NOT, however, criticize the demonstrations in any way. It is beyond comprehension that there is not a single "leader" capable of calling these demonstrators what they really are - barbarians who are an embarrassment to all Torah observant Jews. Disgusting. ”
Im ashamed off everyone that defends this huge chilul Hashem that is happening at the moment in the streets of Mea Shearim.It is an embarassement for the whole Torahcommunity and for all the chareidim.The way the chareidim demonstrate in Israel is not the way of real Bnei Toire and im sure that this is not what HKB"H demands from us!I hope that the Gedoilim will get up eventually!
66
Jul 17, 2009 at 10:06 AM anonymous Says:
If all of you would be as much worried about hillul bein adom lechavero as bein adom lamokom the police would be idle. We receive letters in the U.S. from groups who provide food for shabbes, people come to collect for sick people, the letters from poor people and sick Yidden are unbelievable. The fact is you leidegeier have time on your hands and like confrontation and the "zionist" police is your target. If you would be truly erliche yidden and yiras shomayim you would see to it that elderly have food for shabbes and those who are unable to take care of themselve you would go to their home and help them. The truth is you are a bunch wild, faker who have time on your hand and look for confrontation.
67
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:06 AM Anonymous Says:
“ hey ! wat about " tho shall not stan by yr brothers blood ? " wat does reb finkel say about that ????????? ”
he sayes arest the mother hu starved her son