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Jerusalem - Accused 'Child-starving Mom' No-show at Shrink, Court Holds Hearing |
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The suspect was ordered to undergo the psychiatric evaluation in accordance with the court-prodded accord between the two sides.
The woman was reportedly feeling ill and the psychiatric evaluation was postponed. The Jerusalem Magistrate's Court has called an emergency hearing in the case of the haredi mother suspected of starving her three-year-old son, to discover why she has yet to undergo a psychiatric evaluation.
Following the woman's no-show, Jerusalem Magistrate Court Judge Shulamit Dotan convened both sides for an emergency hearing on Sunday afternoon concerning the woman's continued house arrest.
The woman, a resident of the city's Mea She'arim neighborhood who is a member of the Toldot Aharon community, is believed to be suffering from Munchausen-syndrome-by-proxy, a psychiatric disorder in which a person deliberately abuses someone else, typically a child, in order to draw attention or sympathy to themselves.
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Total41
Read Comments (41) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 19, 2009 at 10:41 AM Anonymous Says:
before all you knee-jerk responders jump in. please see other article just posted.
and let's not pass judgement one way or another-if we don't have first hand info
2
Jul 19, 2009 at 10:50 AM Anonymous Says:
What is emergency hearing?
Is this Osama Bin Ladin?
I remember years ago the Isreali Govt was more interested in capturing Yosele Schumacher than Mangele the Nazi butcher.
3
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:01 AM Chaim Says:
Surpi\rise - she did not show up.
4
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:00 AM Rochel Says:
“ What is emergency hearing?
Is this Osama Bin Ladin?
I remember years ago the Isreali Govt was more interested in capturing Yosele Schumacher than Mangele the Nazi butcher.
”
hey maybe there is a big fish outside they tried to capture it and couldn't make it so they're focusing on israeli problems so they don't look like idiots in the eyes of the world...
5
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:00 AM Anonymous Says:
WHH
I'm amazed at the speedy response of the Jerusalem District Court to hold hearings on this case. The usual red tape I imagine must have been dispensed with considering the sensitive nature of this case, and the desire of the state to prosecute in an expedited fashion. May G_D have mercy on the Jewish people, and on Jerusalem, both of whom are in need of great Yeshuos.
6
Jul 19, 2009 at 10:59 AM Jerusalem Asken Says:
Let me shed some light on why she may have not undergone the psychiatric evaluation.
Many times over, it has been proven that when the court is out to get some one they twist and turn the persons words in order to prove their point, surly in this case there is reason to suspect that they are out to get her, if she does not appear they can NOT diagnose her with something thats not there.
7
Jul 19, 2009 at 10:58 AM ubet Says:
I wish VIN would stop posting news about this story. It's enough already!!!!!! This woman is going through hell!
8
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:03 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What is emergency hearing?
Is this Osama Bin Ladin?
I remember years ago the Isreali Govt was more interested in capturing Yosele Schumacher than Mangele the Nazi butcher.
”
THIS IS A CHILD WHO WAS ABUSED!
There is video evidence. Stop worrying about whether Charedim are treated unfairly & start worrying about abusive parents, NO MATTER WHO OR WHAT THEY ARE!!!
9
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:19 AM AuthenticSatmar Says:
There is no video evidence at all. If the hospital had a video it wouldve been released, the same way they released the picture of the child. The hospital alleges the mother removed the feeding tube. This was when the mother was entrapped and called to the childs bedside, after being away for three weeks. If what they allege is true, why didn't the hospital bring the child back to health in those three weeks? Why only after the mothers arrest is the child supposedly doing better?
It is obvious there is an attempt to cover up the Dr's shady work and then lay blame on the mother. I wonder if this child wasn't subject to some experimental therapy.
10
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:12 AM Ben Says:
“ THIS IS A CHILD WHO WAS ABUSED!
There is video evidence. Stop worrying about whether Charedim are treated unfairly & start worrying about abusive parents, NO MATTER WHO OR WHAT THEY ARE!!! ”
you are so smart, stop and think, who said that the child was abused, the government, right? well I know the whole case and the child was NOT abused.
11
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:39 AM Jeff Says:
“ I wish VIN would stop posting news about this story. It's enough already!!!!!! This woman is going through hell! ”
Who cares what she is going through?
Stop identifying with the abuser!
She should be sterilized and put away in a hospital with no contact with her children at all. They have already suffered enough at her hands.
12
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:36 AM nebech Says:
if the child was abused or not, this mother is in big trouble. too many ppl have their point of view and she wouldnt get a fair trial. nebech on her and the children.
13
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:45 AM Anonymous Says:
#8 oh yeah?! did u c the video? give me some evidence to that!
14
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Who cares what she is going through?
Stop identifying with the abuser!
She should be sterilized and put away in a hospital with no contact with her children at all. They have already suffered enough at her hands. ”
You're judging? did you hear both sides? or your just vomiting your rotten hate on frum yidden?
15
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:52 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Who cares what she is going through?
Stop identifying with the abuser!
She should be sterilized and put away in a hospital with no contact with her children at all. They have already suffered enough at her hands. ”
STOP ACCUSING HER AS AN ABUSER!, she is no abuser, she is now being abused by the infidel authorities in Israel.
1. because there are more kids in the house that are 100% perfectly taken care of, that shows something.
2. Even the accusing fingers Israeli welfare office) claim that she suffers of a psychiatric condition, so she is definitely NOT A CRIMINAL, but she is being treated like one, like the worst ones..
3. Askonim and lawyers are fully involved here, they draw up a different picture, a scary picture, this is a bad case of malpractice by doctors that misdiagnosed this kid, they gave him heavy treatment as chemotherapy for a long time, that eventualy caused him excessive weight loss and hair loss, when this situation was discovered by a big doctor, the mother started to act in order to save her child (everything with the advice of doctors and lawyers).
When those butchering doctors found out that they're in hot water, they turned the board over, and took to their assistance the antisemitic (yes, antisemitic/ anti charedi) Israeli authorities to assist them with their "freshly baked" theory and libel.
16
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:51 AM shmilku Says:
“ you are so smart, stop and think, who said that the child was abused, the government, right? well I know the whole case and the child was NOT abused. ”
are you for real you must be brain damaged you think the government makes all this up just to cause friction with the chareidim if this is the way you think you need a shrink especially when all the other demostrations are going on you are a mindless moron with all youre torah learning you are worthless cant even think critically this is how to much religion destroys the thinking of a person youre incapable of thinking things thru
17
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:59 AM Jeff Says:
“ You're judging? did you hear both sides? or your just vomiting your rotten hate on frum yidden? ”
Oh yeah , like I'm the only one judging here!
There are judgments being made on both sides. There's only one difference, the side of guilt has plenty of physical evidence backing it up.
18
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM KH Says:
This child is under the doctor’s care for over 2 years and misdiagnosed by a doctor, a butcher, and yet the mother is accused of starving the child when she wasn’t allowed to feed him. WHAT KIND OF COURT SYSTEM DOES ISRAEL HAVE? Corrupt to the core! Instead of arresting the doctor, they arrest an innocent mother. I don’t blame the mother for not wanting to take psychiatrist tests selected by these immoral corrupt judges.
19
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:12 PM Loshon Hora Says:
The child was abused. Fact.
By who?
The last six months he has been in H.E.K. Oncology ward where he recieved abuse.
However much the mother was there,it is very uunlikly she was the abuser, she has no access to the medecine closet & couldn't prescribe & administer faulse medecine.
The baby is in a ward [public place] what could she have been doing without getting caught for six months?
after she took a lawyer to fight the abuse & possibly move her child to Great Aumen Street Children's hospital in London, where they will find the abuse & the doctors will have what & who to answer too. They fabricate a story & arrest the mother so she can't leave with her child.
So those doctors[not all of them] who are experimenting on a child, to save their skin, fabricate a story on the poor suffering pregnant 'CHAREIDI" mother.
The amount of wholes in the story are enough for any laidigeir to see.
1) Oncology ward 6 months= Doctors incompetance if it would be M..s By proxy.What took so long, they do blood tests?
2) Picture of kid in newspaper Ilegal by international law, but permitted to fabricate against chareidi mother.
3) No picture of mother removing tube in Newspaper.
4) Hospital ward not private room.
5) The trick & form of arrest.
6) Them trying to force her to use their phsycologist who has already diagnosed her, B4 seeing her.
7)How could the hair fall out, without chemo?
8) Where would she get a drug that does that, for six months & doesn't show up in a blood test.
9) These questions are just from the story the hospital tells a laymen. If I were a doctor & had the papers. Boy would they be in trouble.
They want her locked up until they can destroy any evidence & Chas veshalom the kid. they we don't do Nituchei Meisim, the fight over here is pikuach nefesh & Pidyon Shevuyin mamash.
The kid must be moved to London now.
This is my humble opinion.
20
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:09 PM zalmen Says:
“ Who cares what she is going through?
Stop identifying with the abuser!
She should be sterilized and put away in a hospital with no contact with her children at all. They have already suffered enough at her hands. ”
who are u to judge ? do u know this mother do u know she has 6 other children and no one is under abuse . why do u judge in favor of the isrealy animals govt?
21
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What is emergency hearing?
Is this Osama Bin Ladin?
I remember years ago the Isreali Govt was more interested in capturing Yosele Schumacher than Mangele the Nazi butcher.
”
“What is emergency hearing?
Is this Osama Bin Ladin?
Yes. If she poses a real threat to her children, and all the evidence so far published by VIN suggests that is the case, the police should hunt her down just like they would with the Taliban.
22
Jul 19, 2009 at 01:02 PM Jeff Says:
“ who are u to judge ? do u know this mother do u know she has 6 other children and no one is under abuse . why do u judge in favor of the isrealy animals govt? ”
Who are you to judge?
Do you what mental illness is? Do you know what Munchausen by proxy is? Do you know that people that suffer from this syndrome may be nice in other ways and usually abuse only one of their children?
Now that we've established all the things about this situation that you do NOT not know let's save this kid from a fate worse than death - repeated abuse by his own mother!
23
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:44 PM Anonymous Says:
She had an obligation to undergo the psychiatric evaluation in accordance with the legal agreement between the two sides. She promised to be evaluated for her mental sickness and lied to the court. Now she should be arrested and locked away and not allowed to be with her children until an independent expert appointed by the court evaluates her mental condition. She sounds like she belongs in an institution but lets withold judgement until that is confirmed by a psychiatirst.
24
Jul 19, 2009 at 01:21 PM Caring Jew Says:
From reliable sources, a similar case in Hadassah Ein Kerem, where the parents who suspected this type of experimenting on their child, went to the Head Nurse and complained. The Head Nurse had the nerve to tell the parents, “What can happen? The worst that would happen is that the child would die.” The parents said that they’ll sue them. The Head Nurse responded, “I don’t envy you for taking such a step.” This is a normal practice in that hospital and many parents had the same complaints from this hospital.
You cannot fool all the people all the time... SHEKER EIN LO RAGLAYIM! The truth will emerge, hopefully very soon and in the end SOF GANOV LETLIYAH!
25
Jul 19, 2009 at 01:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ STOP ACCUSING HER AS AN ABUSER!, she is no abuser, she is now being abused by the infidel authorities in Israel.
1. because there are more kids in the house that are 100% perfectly taken care of, that shows something.
2. Even the accusing fingers Israeli welfare office) claim that she suffers of a psychiatric condition, so she is definitely NOT A CRIMINAL, but she is being treated like one, like the worst ones..
3. Askonim and lawyers are fully involved here, they draw up a different picture, a scary picture, this is a bad case of malpractice by doctors that misdiagnosed this kid, they gave him heavy treatment as chemotherapy for a long time, that eventualy caused him excessive weight loss and hair loss, when this situation was discovered by a big doctor, the mother started to act in order to save her child (everything with the advice of doctors and lawyers).
When those butchering doctors found out that they're in hot water, they turned the board over, and took to their assistance the antisemitic (yes, antisemitic/ anti charedi) Israeli authorities to assist them with their "freshly baked" theory and libel.
”
Your first point is no indication, because Munchausen by proxy chooses one child in which to induce illness, so the fact that the others are perfectly taken care of, proves nothing. Check with a psychiatrist before voicing your opinion so confidently.
26
Jul 19, 2009 at 01:54 PM to all unt know it alls Says:
To all you judgemental bugs who think you know it all. Happens to be i know the grandparents very well, going back bout 5 months ago they told me of their sick grandchild who was being treated with chemo erroneously. Dr's thought he had a certain condition and lie was begging for food and wasn't allowed food only via tube. Conditions got worse as a result of bad treatment and mom sat with kid 24/7. this is not wat i heard now but long long b4 accusing arrest was made. so.....
27
Jul 19, 2009 at 02:04 PM eg Says:
comment 19
7)How could the hair fall out, without chemo?
malnutrition in general, iron or zinc deficiency can cause hair loss (alopecia).
Look it up here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_deficiency_(medicine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc#Deficiency
28
Jul 19, 2009 at 03:11 PM Anonymous Says:
“ comment 19
7)How could the hair fall out, without chemo?
malnutrition in general, iron or zinc deficiency can cause hair loss (alopecia).
Look it up here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_deficiency_(medicine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc#Deficiency ”
#27 The child was under doctor's care. How can the doctor deny that?
Hair falling out from underfed children is not all the hair like in chemo.
30
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ #27 The child was under doctor's care. How can the doctor deny that?
Hair falling out from underfed children is not all the hair like in chemo. ”
1. There is no documented evidence of chemotherapy.
2. there is video footage of the mother removing feeding tubes.j
31
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:53 PM Social Worker Says:
Let me tell all of you something. I have witnessed first hand a young frum supposedly "normal looking" intelligent women that had manchausen by proxy. For 3 years she actually made her kid sick. She would give her spoiled bottles of milk that I saw myself that were cheesy. She gave the kid overdoses of Bendryl. She admitted the child 36 times in one year to the hospital and went around crying to everyone that the child was nebach "sickly"> Until......they finally caught on and took the child away from her. As her social worker I tried to get her help which 'SHE REFUSED"...Her goal was to have more kids so she could continue on with this charade! Her husband divorced her. Her child is being raised by her mother and the last that I heard is that she became engaged to some unsuspecting person. Nebach for her new husband and if she has any kids it will be gehenim for them!! Yes, unfortunately you are all misinformed there are people with this problem and most of the time THEY DONT WANT TO GET THE HELP! Her mother told me she shlepped her to psychiatrists and her daughter used her intelligence to cover up and refused to go.....Such a person SHOULD BE LOCKED UP!!! So wake up and smell the coffee.....These people are very sick and will do anything for attention! They dont want to be helped. She told me I can control myself, I will not take any medication, I will not go to a psychiatrist because only "crazy" people go to them!
32
Jul 19, 2009 at 05:00 PM Anonymous Says:
Either the mother is mentally ill or she is abusing her child but either way, for the sake of the yinglach, she should not be with the children. The authorities should focus on getting BOTH of them the help they need and not making this a political issue the way they have.
33
Jul 19, 2009 at 06:29 PM Anonymous Says:
#17 two wrongs don't make one right. I don't care how many of the one sided idiots think. give me some proof, release that video so you have back up for your arguement.
34
Jul 19, 2009 at 06:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Let me tell all of you something. I have witnessed first hand a young frum supposedly "normal looking" intelligent women that had manchausen by proxy. For 3 years she actually made her kid sick. She would give her spoiled bottles of milk that I saw myself that were cheesy. She gave the kid overdoses of Bendryl. She admitted the child 36 times in one year to the hospital and went around crying to everyone that the child was nebach "sickly"> Until......they finally caught on and took the child away from her. As her social worker I tried to get her help which 'SHE REFUSED"...Her goal was to have more kids so she could continue on with this charade! Her husband divorced her. Her child is being raised by her mother and the last that I heard is that she became engaged to some unsuspecting person. Nebach for her new husband and if she has any kids it will be gehenim for them!! Yes, unfortunately you are all misinformed there are people with this problem and most of the time THEY DONT WANT TO GET THE HELP! Her mother told me she shlepped her to psychiatrists and her daughter used her intelligence to cover up and refused to go.....Such a person SHOULD BE LOCKED UP!!! So wake up and smell the coffee.....These people are very sick and will do anything for attention! They dont want to be helped. She told me I can control myself, I will not take any medication, I will not go to a psychiatrist because only "crazy" people go to them! ”
Where is your patient confidentiality?? If you are so "professional" as you claim, you should NOT be writing this information on the Vos IZ Neias blog..
If you really cared about this "patient of yours" you should have reported it to the authorities when you saw it and takeh were concerned about the welfare of the child. Now you are TOO LATE.. You are not creditable anymore...
35
Jul 19, 2009 at 07:30 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:
Fact is that the riots are a disgrace and demonstrate an utter lack of morality amongst these so called Jews, who are in truth religious fanatics. That they are Jews make it even worse as they should act like the am hanivchar that they are a part of and not act like Taliban or other sand negro muslim filth.
I would expect this kind of behavior in Gaza strip, or in Mecca, where the morally bankrupt Koran and the Islamafascits reign, but in Mea Shearim I have to wonder if all that shuckling and moral high ground is really just a front for Talibanesque emptiness and not Torah true Judaism.
It is the responsibility of the system to determine this woman's guilt or innocence. I have no idea myself, but I do know that Munchausen's is so deviant a behavior that anyone in the woman's community coming to her defense is clueless, they wouldn't know if she had it anyway. And the fact that the other kids are fine is also meaningless. Plenty of otherwise "normal" women are addicted to the attention that doctors give, for themselves or their kids, probably because daddy ignored them or uncle yitz molested them, which we all know goes on in chareidi communities as often as Friday night kiddush.
And the idiots claiming that if there was video it would have been released, that's just stupid.
No doubt, the hospital has treated zillions of frum people and done so with the utmost care and concern, so all this nonsense about a conspiracy is 1938 sheep to the slaughter Holocaust paranoia and not worthy of a drop of respect.
Perhaps the doctors screwed up. Yes, it is possible. But the legal system has to determine that. These riots are a disgrace to the race, they are meakeiv the geulah, and the fake frum filth that riot are not Jews. I'll tell you one thing, though. If I were innocent and arrested like that, I would welcome the publicity to expose the system. You hide when you have something to hide. You play victim when you are up to no good. When you are innocent, you welcome the opportunity to declare your innocense from the highest rooftop. So all these riots, in my opinion, are just noise designed to divert the truth away from where it should be exposed. And if it walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, well...
36
Jul 19, 2009 at 08:35 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The child was abused. Fact.
By who?
The last six months he has been in H.E.K. Oncology ward where he recieved abuse.
However much the mother was there,it is very uunlikly she was the abuser, she has no access to the medecine closet & couldn't prescribe & administer faulse medecine.
The baby is in a ward [public place] what could she have been doing without getting caught for six months?
after she took a lawyer to fight the abuse & possibly move her child to Great Aumen Street Children's hospital in London, where they will find the abuse & the doctors will have what & who to answer too. They fabricate a story & arrest the mother so she can't leave with her child.
So those doctors[not all of them] who are experimenting on a child, to save their skin, fabricate a story on the poor suffering pregnant 'CHAREIDI" mother.
The amount of wholes in the story are enough for any laidigeir to see.
1) Oncology ward 6 months= Doctors incompetance if it would be M..s By proxy.What took so long, they do blood tests?
2) Picture of kid in newspaper Ilegal by international law, but permitted to fabricate against chareidi mother.
3) No picture of mother removing tube in Newspaper.
4) Hospital ward not private room.
5) The trick & form of arrest.
6) Them trying to force her to use their phsycologist who has already diagnosed her, B4 seeing her.
7)How could the hair fall out, without chemo?
8) Where would she get a drug that does that, for six months & doesn't show up in a blood test.
9) These questions are just from the story the hospital tells a laymen. If I were a doctor & had the papers. Boy would they be in trouble.
They want her locked up until they can destroy any evidence & Chas veshalom the kid. they we don't do Nituchei Meisim, the fight over here is pikuach nefesh & Pidyon Shevuyin mamash.
The kid must be moved to London now.
This is my humble opinion. ”
1. MSBP is very hard to 'chap', since the caretaker will invariably seem most devoted and involved. Most cases take months to years to catch on to.
8. Several MSBP cases that might interest you: a mother who inserted particles of fecal matter in her child's food, causing gastrointestinal infections and doctors couldn't pinpoint the cause, a mother who injected or orally administered drops of urine to her child, also causing infections, and a mother who put some of her own blood into her child's urine sample so that doctors would think the child was sick. All of these "drugs" are not so hard to get...
9. If the hospital wouldn't have a case, do you think the mother would have been arrested? Or are you thinking that the hospital erased or doctored all their medical records on this child?
37
Jul 19, 2009 at 10:59 PM Anonymous Says:
RIBONNO SHEL OLIM PLEASE LET THE TRUTH BE KNOWN !!!
38
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:08 PM kingsley the chuchem Says:
“ The child was abused. Fact.
By who?
The last six months he has been in H.E.K. Oncology ward where he recieved abuse.
However much the mother was there,it is very uunlikly she was the abuser, she has no access to the medecine closet & couldn't prescribe & administer faulse medecine.
The baby is in a ward [public place] what could she have been doing without getting caught for six months?
after she took a lawyer to fight the abuse & possibly move her child to Great Aumen Street Children's hospital in London, where they will find the abuse & the doctors will have what & who to answer too. They fabricate a story & arrest the mother so she can't leave with her child.
So those doctors[not all of them] who are experimenting on a child, to save their skin, fabricate a story on the poor suffering pregnant 'CHAREIDI" mother.
The amount of wholes in the story are enough for any laidigeir to see.
1) Oncology ward 6 months= Doctors incompetance if it would be M..s By proxy.What took so long, they do blood tests?
2) Picture of kid in newspaper Ilegal by international law, but permitted to fabricate against chareidi mother.
3) No picture of mother removing tube in Newspaper.
4) Hospital ward not private room.
5) The trick & form of arrest.
6) Them trying to force her to use their phsycologist who has already diagnosed her, B4 seeing her.
7)How could the hair fall out, without chemo?
8) Where would she get a drug that does that, for six months & doesn't show up in a blood test.
9) These questions are just from the story the hospital tells a laymen. If I were a doctor & had the papers. Boy would they be in trouble.
They want her locked up until they can destroy any evidence & Chas veshalom the kid. they we don't do Nituchei Meisim, the fight over here is pikuach nefesh & Pidyon Shevuyin mamash.
The kid must be moved to London now.
This is my humble opinion. ”
#19- Is this really fact- or conjecture. ??? How can u or anyone prove this true?/ Where are there lawyers for this woman? Where are the askanim , or others to protect the rights of this woman?
While this does not condone the violent responses. where are Knesset members to make an official inquiry ?
This has been days , why hasn't anyone brought any of these facts to the forefront?
I have always said "let's wait until the facts are in'! But why isn't this woman being
represented and a response by her lawyers????
I hope u are telling us facts, for all our sake! Please respond!!!
39
Jul 20, 2009 at 02:09 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Where is your patient confidentiality?? If you are so "professional" as you claim, you should NOT be writing this information on the Vos IZ Neias blog..
If you really cared about this "patient of yours" you should have reported it to the authorities when you saw it and takeh were concerned about the welfare of the child. Now you are TOO LATE.. You are not creditable anymore... ”
"Patient confidentiality" refers to the patient's right to have her identity kept secret from anyone not directly involved in her care. Since poster #31 did not mention the mother's name, city, or other identifying information, she did not violate patient confidentiality. In fact, if poster #31 is guilty of violating patient confidentiality, so is every medical journal that has ever published a case study (hint: that would be all of them), since these case studies contain a higher lever of detail than mentioned here & can be read by anyone who can visit a library.
Poster #31 is a social worker, and from the post it seems that the poster was working with the mother because she had been diagnosed with MSBP. Therefore the mother's behavior had already been reported to the authorities. In fact, poster #31 described efforts undertaken to help the mother & child, but explained that the mother refused to get help. If the mother is no longer raising the child, as mentioned in the post, probably no one has any authority to force the mother to undergo treatment. You may be concerned because, according to the poster, the mother has become engaged to someone else. However, it would definitely be a violation of patient confidentiality for poster #31 to tell the fiance about the patient's history.
Obviously, since anyone can write anything on the internet, I have no way of knowing if what poster #31 writes is true. But based on what the poster has written, there is no reason to attack the poster's credibility or professionalism as you have done.
40
Jul 20, 2009 at 01:02 AM PMO Says:
“ STOP ACCUSING HER AS AN ABUSER!, she is no abuser, she is now being abused by the infidel authorities in Israel.
1. because there are more kids in the house that are 100% perfectly taken care of, that shows something.
2. Even the accusing fingers Israeli welfare office) claim that she suffers of a psychiatric condition, so she is definitely NOT A CRIMINAL, but she is being treated like one, like the worst ones..
3. Askonim and lawyers are fully involved here, they draw up a different picture, a scary picture, this is a bad case of malpractice by doctors that misdiagnosed this kid, they gave him heavy treatment as chemotherapy for a long time, that eventualy caused him excessive weight loss and hair loss, when this situation was discovered by a big doctor, the mother started to act in order to save her child (everything with the advice of doctors and lawyers).
When those butchering doctors found out that they're in hot water, they turned the board over, and took to their assistance the antisemitic (yes, antisemitic/ anti charedi) Israeli authorities to assist them with their "freshly baked" theory and libel.
”
You are right about one thing, she does not APPEAR to be an "abuser" (although again we do not yet know the facts).
As to your other points, they are either wrong or worthless.
1. So what if there are more kids in the house who are 100% taken care of? Anyone who has actually looked at Munchaussen syndrome by proxy knows that the person suffering from the mental disease almost always has only one "victim". In nearly all cases, other children, spouses, parents and other family had no idea.
2. The welfare office has not "claimed" anything. Nor have they diagnosed her with any condition. They SUSPECT this mental disorder.
3. I wrote previously about another case of this mental illness that might explain things to you in a different light. A young girl was constantly getting blood infections from intestinal parasites. These parasites were damaging her other vital organs. Doctors gave her massive doses of drugs which nearly caused her kidneys to fail, and there was little change in her condition. She had multiple surgeries to remove more and more of her intestines. She was being fed through a tube. The parasites in the blood were causing all sorts of infections all over her body. After her last surgery, while in recovery, a nurse saw the mother messing around with an IV. She saw the mother drop a needle in a sharps container. She reported it and the needles were tested. They found actual fecal matter in the syringe. The woman later admitted that it started out with her putting feces in her child's food. Later, when the girl was being fed via IV and some kind of tube (it was unclear in the story), she began injecting the fecal matter into her daughter.
The doctors went on the symptoms they were presented with. Medicine is not an exact science. While I have no facts, I have no reason to believe that whole teams of doctors and one of the most respected hospitals are all covering up for each other. Yet, I also cannot imagine a mother doing this to her child. Because I don't know the facts, I must leave open the possibility that the doctors were going on the symptoms they were presented with, and possibly this MOTHER was the cause of the symptoms.
Either way this is a tragic and heartbreaking story that will most likely tear this family apart. We need to help them. We need to put our energy into making sure the other children are provided for. We need to put our energy into helping the husband hold his family together.... and we need to daven.
41
Jul 20, 2009 at 08:33 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Fact is that the riots are a disgrace and demonstrate an utter lack of morality amongst these so called Jews, who are in truth religious fanatics. That they are Jews make it even worse as they should act like the am hanivchar that they are a part of and not act like Taliban or other sand negro muslim filth.
I would expect this kind of behavior in Gaza strip, or in Mecca, where the morally bankrupt Koran and the Islamafascits reign, but in Mea Shearim I have to wonder if all that shuckling and moral high ground is really just a front for Talibanesque emptiness and not Torah true Judaism.
It is the responsibility of the system to determine this woman's guilt or innocence. I have no idea myself, but I do know that Munchausen's is so deviant a behavior that anyone in the woman's community coming to her defense is clueless, they wouldn't know if she had it anyway. And the fact that the other kids are fine is also meaningless. Plenty of otherwise "normal" women are addicted to the attention that doctors give, for themselves or their kids, probably because daddy ignored them or uncle yitz molested them, which we all know goes on in chareidi communities as often as Friday night kiddush.
And the idiots claiming that if there was video it would have been released, that's just stupid.
No doubt, the hospital has treated zillions of frum people and done so with the utmost care and concern, so all this nonsense about a conspiracy is 1938 sheep to the slaughter Holocaust paranoia and not worthy of a drop of respect.
Perhaps the doctors screwed up. Yes, it is possible. But the legal system has to determine that. These riots are a disgrace to the race, they are meakeiv the geulah, and the fake frum filth that riot are not Jews. I'll tell you one thing, though. If I were innocent and arrested like that, I would welcome the publicity to expose the system. You hide when you have something to hide. You play victim when you are up to no good. When you are innocent, you welcome the opportunity to declare your innocense from the highest rooftop. So all these riots, in my opinion, are just noise designed to divert the truth away from where it should be exposed. And if it walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, well... ”
Hi shaul!!
Iv'e read through your comment and it seems to me that your the first one that does not know whats going on over hear.
Because #1 is that you don't know every thing over hear and all the riots that are going on are leaded by people who witnesed and are still witnesing the secene around hear, and can come and tell you with full of proof that the mother is innocente.
#2 if the mother is guiltey why was she threatened after a witness came to say that there experimenting things on the child that if she opens hear mouth she won't be abel to see her child for a minimum of 3 years!! What are they scared off?? Ha?
So hear you go, you dont know everything and people who are abit clevere then you and know abit more then and are abit more respected and choshov then you say that you should go to protest!
Now whome am I suppose to listen to? you ? or people that know what there talking about?
Thank You
and be carefull what you wright next time.
Anonymous
42
Jul 20, 2009 at 10:59 AM PMO Says:
“ Hi shaul!!
Iv'e read through your comment and it seems to me that your the first one that does not know whats going on over hear.
Because #1 is that you don't know every thing over hear and all the riots that are going on are leaded by people who witnesed and are still witnesing the secene around hear, and can come and tell you with full of proof that the mother is innocente.
#2 if the mother is guiltey why was she threatened after a witness came to say that there experimenting things on the child that if she opens hear mouth she won't be abel to see her child for a minimum of 3 years!! What are they scared off?? Ha?
So hear you go, you dont know everything and people who are abit clevere then you and know abit more then and are abit more respected and choshov then you say that you should go to protest!
Now whome am I suppose to listen to? you ? or people that know what there talking about?
Thank You
and be carefull what you wright next time.
Anonymous
”
Your points make no sense.
#1 - There are witnesses who can tell us with "full of proof that the mother is innocent"? Really? There are people assaulting police officers in the street who have been with this woman 24 hours/day 7 days/week? That is AMAZING! They must be very talented to spend all day, every day watching this woman AND find time to learn, AND find time so commit arson. What a long, stressful day they must have... imagine if they put that much effort into jobs! (100% sarcasm is intended)
#2 - If there are such witnesses who are "full of proof", as you say... why have we not heard the specific name the individual who told her that they are experimenting on her child? Why have we not heard the names of those who threatened her? Where is the list of the conspirators with the specific charges against them?
As I've said all along, I don't know what the truth is yet. However, those who condemn this woman as 100% guilty are just as stupid, ignorant, and blind as those who praise her as 100% innocent. NOBODY knows all the facts except H" and this woman. Why don't we all just take a breath while the mental health professionals and the courts do their job.
The only facts I have right now is that the mother of a sick child was arrested on suspicion of child abuse, and a group of violent criminals dressed as chareidim committed arson and violent assaults on police and sanitation workers. That is all I, or anyone else here knows with 100% certainty. Anything else is pure speculation.