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Jerusalem - Mayor Barkat Orders Civil Suits Against Charedim |
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After the particularly stormy and violent week, the city's treasury department estimated that the damages caused in the riots amounted to several million shekels.
Consequently the city decided to file suits against those the police have evidence had been involved in acts of vandalism.
During the riots, municipal vehicles were damaged, some 250 dumpsters were set on fire, close to 70 traffic lights were smashed, and traffic cameras were also damaged.
However, not all City Council members approved of Barkat's move. "I advise the mayor that before asking the legal counsel to file suits he should make an effort to fix and clean everything that needs fixing and cleaning," council member Shmuel Yitzhaki from Shas said.
"As far as I know, until now the garbage and the stench are still covering several neighborhoods. I think that the mayor's way of handling this is wrong. Clearly I'm opposed to violence, but this matter should be addressed differently," he added.
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Read Comments (64) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:26 PM Tshalmi Says:
I really hold we ought to file charges against the mayor, i was crossing Bar illan & Eli hacohen streets were the traffic light were smashed out by hooligans [there is a video of shabaniks doing it] and was almost his by a car.
The mayor as a MAYOR OF A CITY must either fix the traffic light, and if he is scared that they will be demolished again he must send crossing guards at all intersections!
By not doing that he shows how careless he is of the thousands of people including tourist that use these roads
>I think that he should be impeached for not being able to withstand his racism
2
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM Anonymous Says:
They should sue the rioters for every last shekel they have and make them and those rabbonim responsible for promoting the demonstrations clean up garbage on the streets of yerushalayim With all the critical needs for poor families in EY and for security for th medinah, the fact that they cost the city millions of shekels in damages is beyond belief.
3
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:28 PM Anonymous Says:
You got to hit them were it hurts
4
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:54 PM Anonymous Says:
Is there anyone who thinks that a Mazik isn't responsible for the Hezek he caused? Odom Muad L'Oilam. Even if he thought he was doing it for a good cause.
5
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:53 PM Anonymous Says:
Yiddin should not be vindictive, but in this case daas torah suggest we should make an exception and find every possible way to cause pain and suffering (in financal terms) for those who have participated in the riots and destruction of city property. It would be wonderful example to require the rabbonim and their tallmididm to leave their kollels and yeshivot and go out and clean up the streets fo yerushalayim.
6
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:52 PM 2 serious Says:
so all of a sudden we are civilized. how about a civil suit agaisnt cops who used excessive force
7
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:48 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You got to hit them were it hurts ”
Maybe that would be a fitting punishment for those arrested for rioting. instead of sitting in jail on the city's dime - be made to clean up the streets.
8
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:47 PM GW Says:
I don't think this lew suits will get anywhere but that's a good move those people should go get some jobs not waste time on nonsense those people want to get everything from the government and do nothing its time to behave like humans
9
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:43 PM Anonymous Says:
Good for the Mayor!
He should know that thems of thousands of frum Jews in Yeruslayim, EY and America support him 100pc going after these violent extremists who repulse the vast majority of Torah observant yidden.
10
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:41 PM .......the checkbook Says:
gevaldig....we must support our bretherin who cause physical damage to piples.....who else in the world would support a negligent mother.......a gebrochte ganze welt...........we will have an appea at Amon's on 13th..........Lav Davka...
11
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM u r an idiot Says:
“ I really hold we ought to file charges against the mayor, i was crossing Bar illan & Eli hacohen streets were the traffic light were smashed out by hooligans [there is a video of shabaniks doing it] and was almost his by a car.
The mayor as a MAYOR OF A CITY must either fix the traffic light, and if he is scared that they will be demolished again he must send crossing guards at all intersections!
By not doing that he shows how careless he is of the thousands of people including tourist that use these roads
>I think that he should be impeached for not being able to withstand his racism ”
why dont you hold the real ppl responsible for it the absent rabbis why would they put anyone in danger these hooligans would hit maybe even kill the traffic guards..... wake up smell the coffee these religious zealots are a bunch of animals and they deserve to be locked up at least if not more
12
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM Anonymous Says:
“ They should sue the rioters for every last shekel they have and make them and those rabbonim responsible for promoting the demonstrations clean up garbage on the streets of yerushalayim With all the critical needs for poor families in EY and for security for th medinah, the fact that they cost the city millions of shekels in damages is beyond belief. ”
"those rabbonim"? who do you mean by that? maybe you mean "them rabbanim" or "these rabbonim" you see there are various ways of making a racist remark the choice is YOURS. ps you soiund so passionate about israel,when was the lst time you were in jerusalem
13
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:39 PM Anonymous Says:
"However, not all City Council members approved of Barkat's move. "I advise the mayor that before asking the legal counsel to file suits he should make an effort to fix and clean everything that needs fixing and cleaning," council member Shmuel Yitzhaki from Shas said."
Kain yirbu. Council member Yitzhaki is either an idiot or a really unstable individual. How dare he demand that the city clean up the garbage and repair the damage the Chareidi rioters caused. The rabbonim who organized these demonstrations should be made to clean the garbage and scrub the streets. Otherwise, let these yiddim live with the stench and garbage they created. Maybe it will teach them some respect for property and the rights of others next time.
14
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:38 PM beni Says:
“ I really hold we ought to file charges against the mayor, i was crossing Bar illan & Eli hacohen streets were the traffic light were smashed out by hooligans [there is a video of shabaniks doing it] and was almost his by a car.
The mayor as a MAYOR OF A CITY must either fix the traffic light, and if he is scared that they will be demolished again he must send crossing guards at all intersections!
By not doing that he shows how careless he is of the thousands of people including tourist that use these roads
>I think that he should be impeached for not being able to withstand his racism ”
1000% right head on buddy!
15
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:37 PM זאבי Says:
#1 you are so right!
you could make money go ahead and sue the Mayor!
teach him a lesson that he can not be a anticharadi and use collective punishment
16
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:31 PM Shmuel Says:
Adam muad l'olam.
17
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:33 PM kingsley the chuchem Says:
Right on-Those actually responsible should pay. The question is "can u get money from a stone'???? Probably they have a keduchas. But this will be a deterrence to others and their parents are responsible for minors.. If the Mayor is doing this to be vindictive then he shouold lose.. But if he is sincere, then I support him.
18
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:31 PM Anonymous Says:
Sorry but that's the only way, there has to be peace and order, even though the enforcers are "tziyionem"
19
Jul 19, 2009 at 01:24 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "However, not all City Council members approved of Barkat's move. "I advise the mayor that before asking the legal counsel to file suits he should make an effort to fix and clean everything that needs fixing and cleaning," council member Shmuel Yitzhaki from Shas said."
Kain yirbu. Council member Yitzhaki is either an idiot or a really unstable individual. How dare he demand that the city clean up the garbage and repair the damage the Chareidi rioters caused. The rabbonim who organized these demonstrations should be made to clean the garbage and scrub the streets. Otherwise, let these yiddim live with the stench and garbage they created. Maybe it will teach them some respect for property and the rights of others next time.
”
No matter how much responsibility any rabbonim may have for the riots (none of them were arrested) its not respectful to make them clean up garbage. Maybe there is some other form of "public service" work they can do to help pay for the damages they contributed to.
21
Jul 19, 2009 at 02:08 PM Hen Weissberg Says:
I have sent a notice to the israeli consulate that, I and possibly others intent to bring suit against the israeli goverment, request involvment of the UN Human Right Commission, and request an international arrest warrant against Mr. Barakat from Jerusalem, whilst in power denying eldery, children and infirm basic human services, abuse of power, I am weighting the possibility of having or requesting that the state of Israel should not be recognized as a country any longer, and so the Obama Administration should halt all monies. I have found listening hear among the US Dept of State. Feel free to complaint to our authorities, the more they will hear, more pressure they will apply against the bloodsuckers, so called zionists that acto no different then Hitler or Chemelnitzky.
22
Jul 19, 2009 at 02:22 PM Misnaged Says:
“ so all of a sudden we are civilized. how about a civil suit agaisnt cops who used excessive force ”
All accusations of excessive force by the police are filthy lies. The Mishtara showed remarkable restraint in the face of great and deliberate provocation. They should have just waded into the crowd and started busting heads with their batons.
23
Jul 19, 2009 at 02:21 PM shimon Says:
And even if they would be fined, guess who is going to pay. Plus the expenses of the meshulachim. Ring ring.
24
Jul 19, 2009 at 02:29 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ "those rabbonim"? who do you mean by that? maybe you mean "them rabbanim" or "these rabbonim" you see there are various ways of making a racist remark the choice is YOURS. ps you soiund so passionate about israel,when was the lst time you were in jerusalem ”
What racism? Rabbis aren't a race. In any event, for #19, not everyone who calls himself a rabbi is one and not everyone who is a "rabbi" is worthy of respect. That said, the image of bearded Jews in Jewish levush scrubbing the streets was captured during the war and is too horrific to repeat today. Before they scrub the street, we will have to make them wear orange jumpsuits.
25
Jul 19, 2009 at 02:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I have sent a notice to the israeli consulate that, I and possibly others intent to bring suit against the israeli goverment, request involvment of the UN Human Right Commission, and request an international arrest warrant against Mr. Barakat from Jerusalem, whilst in power denying eldery, children and infirm basic human services, abuse of power, I am weighting the possibility of having or requesting that the state of Israel should not be recognized as a country any longer, and so the Obama Administration should halt all monies. I have found listening hear among the US Dept of State. Feel free to complaint to our authorities, the more they will hear, more pressure they will apply against the bloodsuckers, so called zionists that acto no different then Hitler or Chemelnitzky. ”
You are pathetic excuses for a human, you are sick maybe you should move to Iran and help them to deny the holocaust.
26
Jul 19, 2009 at 02:25 PM Jerusalem Says:
WHH
Big Mistake, Birkat. No Mayor has ever won a war against the Chareidi sector. Alienating the majority rule of Jerusalem is not the way to solve this problem. If he had half a brain he would sit down with the Eida, and solve this problem to everyones satisfaction. These are learned rational people, and no press spin factor will spurn anyone to think otherwise, with the exception of some of the Galus Jews we hear from here on this forum. Birkat has no brain, and a lot of hubris. His pride and honor are wounded so he is thrashing back, but he will be the loser in the end. You can't take anything away from people who have nothing but their beliefs in the first place.
27
Jul 19, 2009 at 02:21 PM Anonymous Says:
Shabbos, Where do we hear the pain of a Shabbos being violated.
28
Jul 19, 2009 at 01:56 PM emes Says:
let them file a lawsut aganst eda hachreidis
29
Jul 19, 2009 at 02:40 PM AuthenticSatmar Says:
The mayor is abusing the chareidim to get attention from the chilonim. Sounds like he's suffering from the same syndrome as the alleged woman.
When Barkat ran he promised to represent all residents - even chareidim. It seems he continues to blatantly discriminate against them. And let's remember to thank Gur Chasidus for facilitating his rise to power.
30
Jul 19, 2009 at 01:44 PM dovy Says:
another great policy move by supreme ruler mayor nir ahmijenijad barkat
31
Jul 19, 2009 at 01:38 PM Geula Resident Says:
today Sunday morning the garbage was finally taken
32
Jul 19, 2009 at 01:34 PM Charlie Hall Says:
Aren't the people who are responsible for the property damage halachically liable to reimburse the owner of the property?
33
Jul 19, 2009 at 01:33 PM wiseman Says:
“ I really hold we ought to file charges against the mayor, i was crossing Bar illan & Eli hacohen streets were the traffic light were smashed out by hooligans [there is a video of shabaniks doing it] and was almost his by a car.
The mayor as a MAYOR OF A CITY must either fix the traffic light, and if he is scared that they will be demolished again he must send crossing guards at all intersections!
By not doing that he shows how careless he is of the thousands of people including tourist that use these roads
>I think that he should be impeached for not being able to withstand his racism ”
What racism are you refering to. The Mayor, who is not a charedi, must therefore be anti-simetic? Or the hooligans and shkotzim (we can't call them Charedim as the way they acted was NOT the Jewish way).
34
Jul 19, 2009 at 03:44 PM Anonymous Says:
#28
Idiot! What kind of judgment do you think they can get? The deep pocket of the Eida's Holdings? Bikat is an amateur and needs to think again about this move before he can call himself a politician.
35
Jul 19, 2009 at 03:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ All accusations of excessive force by the police are filthy lies. The Mishtara showed remarkable restraint in the face of great and deliberate provocation. They should have just waded into the crowd and started busting heads with their batons. ”
Your denial of the mishtara/police brutality and unbelievable excessive reminds me of someone in Iran denying the holocaust..
36
Jul 19, 2009 at 03:08 PM Anonymous Says:
“
Aren't the people who are responsible for the property damage halachically liable to reimburse the owner of the property? ”
All of a sudden you become straight faced perfect..
Where were you looking for justice when a poor Jewish mother was jailed in a cell with low life criminals for more than a week? (regardless what/if she did or didn't do).
37
Jul 19, 2009 at 03:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ All accusations of excessive force by the police are filthy lies. The Mishtara showed remarkable restraint in the face of great and deliberate provocation. They should have just waded into the crowd and started busting heads with their batons. ”
Restraining force? you mean that they didn't kill anybody? they were as brutal as always when it comes to charedi Jews.
Riots and setting dumpsters on fire is wrong, but it never happens before the police show real brutality and extremely excessive force by all means in a way that is unheard of in any civilized nation.
38
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:03 PM Anonymous Says:
Its time for Jews, especially frum Jews to escape Israel, too many enemies inside out, the Zionism hasn't brought any good to anyone, besides persecution of ehrliche yidden. its time to say good bye.
39
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:09 PM Let him Know Says:
here is Barkats email address let him know the truth
ishka@jerusalem.muni.il
Kul TUV
40
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:13 PM Shalom Says:
#32 Halachically NOT liable. Here is the clear halacha in the Gemara:
מסכת בבא קמא דף קיז/ב
ורודף שהיה רודף אחר רודף להציל ושבר כלים בין של נרדף בין של כל אדם פטור ולא מן הדין אלא שאם אי אתה אומר כן אין לך אדם שמציל את חבירו מן הרודף:
If someone is chasing after someone that wants to kill another person and while chasing he breaks things, he’s not obligated to pay. In this case, the city which includes the police and justice system were after this innocent woman whom they imprisoned viciously in order to protect the doctor. They placed her with an Arab woman (who killed her husband) who threatened this chareidi woman that she will kill her. A pregnant woman jailed with the harsh conditions and treated worse than the biggest terrorists, was a great mitzvah of Pidyon Shevu’im. (These details can be clearly heard on Kol Mevaser 212-444-1100 option 1,1,4 where you can hear a live report of Dr. Mengele’s treatment of this poor child and innocent mother.) Anyone coming to her defense, is not obligated to pay for the damages caused while pursuing the municipal agents. In fact, this is how baruch Hashem they released her.
41
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:19 PM Anonymous Says:
Stupid mayor! those rioters are low class and unemployed, what a waste of time
42
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:35 PM shimon Says:
“ #32 Halachically NOT liable. Here is the clear halacha in the Gemara:
מסכת בבא קמא דף קיז/ב
ורודף שהיה רודף אחר רודף להציל ושבר כלים בין של נרדף בין של כל אדם פטור ולא מן הדין אלא שאם אי אתה אומר כן אין לך אדם שמציל את חבירו מן הרודף:
If someone is chasing after someone that wants to kill another person and while chasing he breaks things, he’s not obligated to pay. In this case, the city which includes the police and justice system were after this innocent woman whom they imprisoned viciously in order to protect the doctor. They placed her with an Arab woman (who killed her husband) who threatened this chareidi woman that she will kill her. A pregnant woman jailed with the harsh conditions and treated worse than the biggest terrorists, was a great mitzvah of Pidyon Shevu’im. (These details can be clearly heard on Kol Mevaser 212-444-1100 option 1,1,4 where you can hear a live report of Dr. Mengele’s treatment of this poor child and innocent mother.) Anyone coming to her defense, is not obligated to pay for the damages caused while pursuing the municipal agents. In fact, this is how baruch Hashem they released her. ”
I don't remember reading anything so perverting halacha in years. Unless you are being sarcastic and I didn't get it.
43
Jul 19, 2009 at 03:52 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The mayor is abusing the chareidim to get attention from the chilonim. Sounds like he's suffering from the same syndrome as the alleged woman.
When Barkat ran he promised to represent all residents - even chareidim. It seems he continues to blatantly discriminate against them. And let's remember to thank Gur Chasidus for facilitating his rise to power. ”
Mayor Barkat, Shlita, is doing what any other mayor would do under the circumstances, maintain public order. His actions are to be commended and the police have actually shown a remarkable level of restraint against the Chareidi provocations.
44
Jul 19, 2009 at 03:47 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I have sent a notice to the israeli consulate that, I and possibly others intent to bring suit against the israeli goverment, request involvment of the UN Human Right Commission, and request an international arrest warrant against Mr. Barakat from Jerusalem, whilst in power denying eldery, children and infirm basic human services, abuse of power, I am weighting the possibility of having or requesting that the state of Israel should not be recognized as a country any longer, and so the Obama Administration should halt all monies. I have found listening hear among the US Dept of State. Feel free to complaint to our authorities, the more they will hear, more pressure they will apply against the bloodsuckers, so called zionists that acto no different then Hitler or Chemelnitzky. ”
There are two problems with your effort.
First, there is no substance or basis in U.S. or international law for taking any action against a
sovererign nation taking appropriate steps to put down
riots and disruptive acitivity against its own citizens who have acted in the manner of these crazy Chareidim.
Second, even if there was any basis for action, no one
would understand your incoherent and rambling posting. Perhaps you might learn the English language or else draft your petition in Yiddish.
45
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:43 PM European Says:
To #38 I support your opinion,as someone who lives in Europe were the Israelies claims that we are suffering from anti-semitism, I relised that we are well threated here,comparing to how the israelies threat the charedim in Israel and how they disrespect Judaism,when we see this summer how many shuls were vandalized and sifrah toirah's were burned hashem yerachem,it reminds us the Nazi regim, So open your eyes and as you mentiont its time to leave E. Israel and wait patiently for Mashiach!
46
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:41 PM European Says:
To #38 I support your opinion,as someone who lives in Europe were the Israelies claims that we are suffering from anti-semitism, I relised that we are well threated here,comparing to how the israelies threat the charedim in Israel and how they disrespect Judaism,when we see this summer how many shuls were vandalized and sifrah toirah's were burned hashem yerachem,it reminds us the Nazi regim, So open your eyes and as you mentiont its time to leave E. Israel and wait patiently for Mashiach!
47
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:56 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Mayor Barkat, Shlita, is doing what any other mayor would do under the circumstances, maintain public order. His actions are to be commended and the police have actually shown a remarkable level of restraint against the Chareidi provocations. ”
don't forget shlita a few more times, 1) for eating chazer and lobster 2) for being a public mechalel shabos 3) for not putting on tefililn $) and the most of all because he is fulfilling the Zionist cause: torture and persecution of charedim.
48
Jul 19, 2009 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Mayor Barkat, Shlita, is doing what any other mayor would do under the circumstances, maintain public order. His actions are to be commended and the police have actually shown a remarkable level of restraint against the Chareidi provocations. ”
maybe think about "taking law" in the hands and stop abusing charedim?
49
Jul 19, 2009 at 05:04 PM Rivki Says:
I keep reading all the comments and I keep wondering is there an alternate reality that people are living in??
First of all, the mother is a member of a particular sect that does not support the State of Israel, so to her and her ilk, any representative of authority is a (hated) Zionist. To their benefit, since they do not support the State, they DO NOT take from the State. However, since they live in the State of Israel, they and all of us are required Ke'Halacha to obey the laws of the medina we live in.
Secondly, if a person is accused of wrongdoing, that person needs to be remanded until terms are met for release. What is the difference if the person is frum or not? Breaking the law is not exclusive to non-Frum Jews (unfortunately).
Just because a person is from a "Frum Kehilla" DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY make them innocent !!
Then there is all the uncalled for damages that was done to the City. Many Frum Yidden have had THEIR lives put at risk because of the actions of a few vilda chayas.
WHY should the city pay for damages that were caused WILLFULLY and COGENTLY by others?
If the city, in fact, has proof, ie: photos or videos showing a particular person damaging property, why should they not pay for it. If they damaged MY car, I (and you) would certainly go after them and not absorb the cost my(our) self.
Why do people make excuses for improper behavior? I wonder what the reaction of the mayor would be if the Eidah simply apologized for such improper behavior. I truly doubt he would go forward with suing them. I truly believe he simply is saying "hey look, you want the secular government to come to you with any Frum issues, so where are you when Frum issues need to be handled?"
And please, NO RABBI bashing. These Rabeim and Gedolim are our leaders, and as such, deserve and demand our respect. Remember, we are not privy to all that goes on, and it is NEVER our place to judge the actions or inactions of a Gadol.
50
Jul 19, 2009 at 05:06 PM ploni almoni Says:
Barkat and the police messed up big time here. So instead of facing the heat he is trying to divert everyone's attention.
Anyone who understands yerushalayim politics would have known where things would lead. There are liasons between the city/police and the eidah. This should never have been allowed to escalate to such levels. Franco and barkat must go. It is their responsibility that yerushalayim should remain a calm place
51
Jul 19, 2009 at 05:47 PM Anonymous Says:
“ All of a sudden you become straight faced perfect..
Where were you looking for justice when a poor Jewish mother was jailed in a cell with low life criminals for more than a week? (regardless what/if she did or didn't do). ”
First people were protesting that she was in solitary. So which was it? Solitary or a cell with "low life criminals"?
52
Jul 19, 2009 at 06:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ First people were protesting that she was in solitary. So which was it? Solitary or a cell with "low life criminals"? ”
Is this the key, wether she was in confinement or with another lo life murderer in a cell? she was treated like a dog! like a piece of trash!
Besides the uncalled for publicity arrest on the street with cameras rolling.
Shame on Israeli police and shame on all who try to defend these beasts.
53
Jul 19, 2009 at 06:11 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I keep reading all the comments and I keep wondering is there an alternate reality that people are living in??
First of all, the mother is a member of a particular sect that does not support the State of Israel, so to her and her ilk, any representative of authority is a (hated) Zionist. To their benefit, since they do not support the State, they DO NOT take from the State. However, since they live in the State of Israel, they and all of us are required Ke'Halacha to obey the laws of the medina we live in.
Secondly, if a person is accused of wrongdoing, that person needs to be remanded until terms are met for release. What is the difference if the person is frum or not? Breaking the law is not exclusive to non-Frum Jews (unfortunately).
Just because a person is from a "Frum Kehilla" DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY make them innocent !!
Then there is all the uncalled for damages that was done to the City. Many Frum Yidden have had THEIR lives put at risk because of the actions of a few vilda chayas.
WHY should the city pay for damages that were caused WILLFULLY and COGENTLY by others?
If the city, in fact, has proof, ie: photos or videos showing a particular person damaging property, why should they not pay for it. If they damaged MY car, I (and you) would certainly go after them and not absorb the cost my(our) self.
Why do people make excuses for improper behavior? I wonder what the reaction of the mayor would be if the Eidah simply apologized for such improper behavior. I truly doubt he would go forward with suing them. I truly believe he simply is saying "hey look, you want the secular government to come to you with any Frum issues, so where are you when Frum issues need to be handled?"
And please, NO RABBI bashing. These Rabeim and Gedolim are our leaders, and as such, deserve and demand our respect. Remember, we are not privy to all that goes on, and it is NEVER our place to judge the actions or inactions of a Gadol. ”
If this lady would've been treated with the same respect as the "zionists" treat secular people, then you can plead with her to look at them differently, since she was singled out throughout the entire spectacle with harsh and brutal treatment, don't expect her to respect them or look at them as an authority or something.
54
Jul 19, 2009 at 07:12 PM Anonymous Says:
The police THEMSELVES have shtinkers who egg on the rioters. So let the so called mayor sue the police.
In any case he'll be out soon and there will be a frum mayor again.
55
Jul 19, 2009 at 07:27 PM kingsley the chuchem Says:
All my chochme is not doing too well here. The facts of these issues must come out before anyone can say anything supporting either side.
1. What is the real illness and past diagnosis of this boy?
2. What is the real diagnosis of this mother,and is she sick, well, or a criminal?
3. How was this woman handled under the circumstances at the time of her arrest?
4. She is entitled to the presumption of innocence and afforded all rights and needs to be met as a frum woman and pregnant as only a suspect?
5. Did the police mishandle her arrest and incarceration?
6. Who authorized the protests?
7. Are there factual proof eveidences showing the violence directly to each protestor committing them?
8 Did the Mayor overreact with Chareidim Jews vis a vi Arab protestors by barring services to an entire community innocent?
9 Where were the Gedolim Ger Belz Toldos (various ) coming out against violence?
10 . There must be a meeting of the Charedi community and the Mayor how to handle all these situations and their immediate resolution when something goes wrong from all sectors of the Chareidi community?
11. There must be a sensitivity discussion of the community and the police forces on how to deal with these issues. Both sides are to blame due to their mistrust and vindictiveness of past occurrences.
56
Jul 19, 2009 at 07:19 PM 2 serious Says:
“ All accusations of excessive force by the police are filthy lies. The Mishtara showed remarkable restraint in the face of great and deliberate provocation. They should have just waded into the crowd and started busting heads with their batons. ”
"ALL accusations of excessive force are filthy lies" really????? are you here?? i'm here in israel, i see it!(although i personaly dont get involved protest) was the cop who was just convicted this past week from the amona demonstration 2006, was that also filthy lies. how about the video footage from a coupla yrs ago (check on youtube might be an eyeopener)of police barging into satmar BM randomly beating people,also "filthy lies"?? if you don't know the facts -shut up
57
Jul 19, 2009 at 07:40 PM anonymous Says:
“ I have sent a notice to the israeli consulate that, I and possibly others intent to bring suit against the israeli goverment, request involvment of the UN Human Right Commission, and request an international arrest warrant against Mr. Barakat from Jerusalem, whilst in power denying eldery, children and infirm basic human services, abuse of power, I am weighting the possibility of having or requesting that the state of Israel should not be recognized as a country any longer, and so the Obama Administration should halt all monies. I have found listening hear among the US Dept of State. Feel free to complaint to our authorities, the more they will hear, more pressure they will apply against the bloodsuckers, so called zionists that acto no different then Hitler or Chemelnitzky. ”
If they would act Like Hitler and Chimielnetzki you would be in tachrichim. I was not around when Chmielnetzki lived but I lived 7 years under Hitler, beaten and lost my entire family. It is your dull and depraved mind which creates more sinas chinom and more antisemtism. Go to the Yad Vashem before you open your big foolish mouth
58
Jul 19, 2009 at 09:04 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I keep reading all the comments and I keep wondering is there an alternate reality that people are living in??
First of all, the mother is a member of a particular sect that does not support the State of Israel, so to her and her ilk, any representative of authority is a (hated) Zionist. To their benefit, since they do not support the State, they DO NOT take from the State. However, since they live in the State of Israel, they and all of us are required Ke'Halacha to obey the laws of the medina we live in.
Secondly, if a person is accused of wrongdoing, that person needs to be remanded until terms are met for release. What is the difference if the person is frum or not? Breaking the law is not exclusive to non-Frum Jews (unfortunately).
Just because a person is from a "Frum Kehilla" DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY make them innocent !!
Then there is all the uncalled for damages that was done to the City. Many Frum Yidden have had THEIR lives put at risk because of the actions of a few vilda chayas.
WHY should the city pay for damages that were caused WILLFULLY and COGENTLY by others?
If the city, in fact, has proof, ie: photos or videos showing a particular person damaging property, why should they not pay for it. If they damaged MY car, I (and you) would certainly go after them and not absorb the cost my(our) self.
Why do people make excuses for improper behavior? I wonder what the reaction of the mayor would be if the Eidah simply apologized for such improper behavior. I truly doubt he would go forward with suing them. I truly believe he simply is saying "hey look, you want the secular government to come to you with any Frum issues, so where are you when Frum issues need to be handled?"
And please, NO RABBI bashing. These Rabeim and Gedolim are our leaders, and as such, deserve and demand our respect. Remember, we are not privy to all that goes on, and it is NEVER our place to judge the actions or inactions of a Gadol. ”
"It is NEVER our place to judge the actions or inactions of a Gadol."
Yes it is our place to judge and criticize the actions of these rabbonim if they either provoke the rioting or fail to take actions to stop it. That is not the behavior of a gadol and just because some of his followers think of him as a gadol does not make it so. Such actions are the sign of a "Katan" not a "Gadol".
59
Jul 19, 2009 at 10:16 PM Rivki Says:
“ If this lady would've been treated with the same respect as the "zionists" treat secular people, then you can plead with her to look at them differently, since she was singled out throughout the entire spectacle with harsh and brutal treatment, don't expect her to respect them or look at them as an authority or something. ”
The police are known for treating ALL arrested people without delicacy. They DO NOT single out the Frum, The Frum simply expect to be treated differently.
60
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:26 PM kingsley the chuchem Says:
#49 Rivki - to u I say - talk to all my relatives and the millions in the ovens who listened to the Daas Torah who told them at the time "don't worry nothing will happen".
U are right though that no one really knows any of the facts here other that most people feel the Gedolim, except for a few , have kept quiet too long about the violence issue and have not dealt with it in a unified approach.
#58 u are quite right that the inaction of many Rebbes and Gedolim is just as bad as having induced the violence n all these violent acts. When their people begin to feel the secular and int'l backlash they will understand what the consequences of an immediate condemnation of violence on a large public scale will cost them
61
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:24 PM Anonymous Says:
Doesn't the Torah say Shalem Yishalem hamavir es habeirah? The Torah doesn't apply to Chareidim?
62
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:18 PM goldy rosenberg Says:
Rivki -- that is ignorance. I have photos of the police arresting protestors who were chareidi in the most blatantly evil of ways -- the kinda scenes you expect in uncivilized countries. And when they arrest the chilonim, even drug dealers, there is more of a white glove approach. The frum expected to have basic civil rights. Have you ever gone down the small roads in Meah Shearim -- they have been treated like second class citizens for very long. And I laugh at the double standard - if a Meah Shearim kid is beaten bloody, it is acceptable. if a teen from an outpost is put into jail, then the Jewish Press and all the commentators sit up and note that perhaps Chilonim lost their Jewish compassion while eating their Chazer and sipping their yayin Nesech. The depth of hatred for Meah Shearim denizens is the same type of hatred the Goyim have for us, and as we frum folks degenerate our own brothers, Kacha U'Kacha, will the anti-semitism against Jews rise.
63
Jul 20, 2009 at 12:34 AM godol Says:
“ "However, not all City Council members approved of Barkat's move. "I advise the mayor that before asking the legal counsel to file suits he should make an effort to fix and clean everything that needs fixing and cleaning," council member Shmuel Yitzhaki from Shas said."
Kain yirbu. Council member Yitzhaki is either an idiot or a really unstable individual. How dare he demand that the city clean up the garbage and repair the damage the Chareidi rioters caused. The rabbonim who organized these demonstrations should be made to clean the garbage and scrub the streets. Otherwise, let these yiddim live with the stench and garbage they created. Maybe it will teach them some respect for property and the rights of others next time.
”
how dare you talk that way about our gedoilim you should go out there and lick the streets
65
Jul 20, 2009 at 01:02 AM Jerusalem Says:
WHH
Rivki, Your astonishment at the "alternative reality" people appear to be responding to is really just a function of your own naivete. The rules of the "free" world do not operate in the same way in Eretz Yisroel, and i can assure you, the police here are incredibly brutal to Chareidim as a group and without just cause. My son was one of those beaten during the evacuations of settlements, at age 14, mind you, a black kippa and peyos, and a white shirt. Hit in the head repeatedly and pummeled by batons and fists. He went to show solidarity with his "Zionist" Jewish brothers in their moment of pain. So don't champion a newspaper stereotype of Toldos Ahron which you clearly do not truly understand. Furthermore, many of the Yerushalmis were living here long before the "State" was established, and never agreed to abide by the Zionist laws, any more than they agreed to the governances of the Turks, the English and the Arabs. The so called State knows this. it doesn't mystify anyone here. One slant of history says that their protests were great and built the state, now they have become the enemy of it. You speak about No Rabbi Bashing, and yet you offer the alternative that the Eida, a rabbinical organization and Beis din made up of very learned and holy people, apologize to Birkat to stave off his anticipated law suit. Who is bashing rabbis here? In this you admit that Birkat moves forward not in the pursuit of truth or Justice but in revenge, and wounded pride. Is this the way to show respect to our Rabbis, by making them grovel on the ground genuflecting to a brash young politician? My advice to you, sophomoric opinions will not bring an enlightened view. Raise up your thoughts, because it is obvious you are trying valiantly to get there.
66
Jul 20, 2009 at 09:24 AM Rippin Pinchas Says:
Barakat has shown he is feckless and pathetic. He has a riot problem. What does he do? Nothing. And then he goes and rants and raves.
His ilk seems to have a lot of understanding for the Arab cause. The government gives them money and weapons. Of course different rules apply to his own brethern.