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Jerusalem - Israel Rabbinate Could Revoke Hechsher for Over-Spraying Pesticides |
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If approved the plan would set a precedent as the first time the Chief Rabbinate has established a requirement not strictly related to kashrus as a condition for obtaining certification.
In recent weeks the Rabbinate has been waging a battle against a number of vegetable growers that receive “insect-free” certification. According to HaRav Shmuel Eliyahu, some leafy vegetable producers use “crazy amounts of insecticide sprays” instead of sealed hothouses and other special growing techniques.
HaRav Eliyahu told HaRav Metzger on Monday that excessive spraying is not fully effective against insects and endangers consumers’ health. He explained that the parts of the produce where the insecticides do not reach still have high levels of bug contamination and that such heavy quantities of poisonous substances cannot be washed off under normal household conditions.
The Chief Rabbi said he would consult with officials at the Ministries of Agriculture and Health before presenting the issue to the Chief Rabbinate Kashrut Committee for a decision.
Though the High Court could try to block the new initiative, Rabbi Metzger’s staff noted that based on the concept of sakanta chamira mi’issura (“danger is more severe than a prohibition”), the move is a purely halachic issue and therefore should not be subject to interference from secular judicial bodies.
“These fruits and vegetables pose a real health hazard to people who eat them,” they said. “You can’t give kashrus approval for poison.”
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Read Comments (27) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 20, 2009 at 03:37 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
This is simply P.C. pandering. Do pesticides need a hechsher? Kashrus applies to foods. The Government can ban certain pesticides and can set limits for exposure. Kashrus agencies should concern themselves with Yora Deah. Bug infestation is a kashrus issue, pesticide exposure is not.
2
Jul 20, 2009 at 03:48 PM Charles Hall Says:
“ This is simply P.C. pandering. Do pesticides need a hechsher? Kashrus applies to foods. The Government can ban certain pesticides and can set limits for exposure. Kashrus agencies should concern themselves with Yora Deah. Bug infestation is a kashrus issue, pesticide exposure is not. ”
Its mutar to eat poison?
3
Jul 20, 2009 at 03:24 PM Anonymous Says:
“These fruits and vegetables pose a real health hazard to people who eat them,” the rabbonim said. “You can’t give kashrus approval for poison.”
If I read this correctly, Moishiach is defintely coming before rosh chodesh Elul. When the rabbonim make such a common sense and practical decision while enforcing dinei kashruth, you have to pinch yourself and make sure its not a dream. What next, a new line of special hormone free, glatt meat under the joint supervision of chassideshe mashgichim and PETA!!
4
Jul 20, 2009 at 03:23 PM Anonymous Says:
What makes them an authority on what is safe? They have a hard enough time determining what is kosher.
5
Jul 20, 2009 at 03:59 PM Alan Says:
Finally! someone who understands that kashrus does not exist in a vacuum . It remains, however, the responsibility of the consumer after noting whether the product is kosher to make sure the food or other product is safe to use or is useful at all. I once saw a product in the supermarket which while kosher had not food ingredients at all (water,artificial flavors, stabilizers, and preservatives)
The answer is grow or buy organically grown fruits and vegetables. If I can do it on my income many can. I just avoid spending money on "Harry Potter"and other frivolous pursuits.
6
Jul 20, 2009 at 03:57 PM 2frum4U Says:
poison or bugs? Tough choice.
7
Jul 20, 2009 at 04:25 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What makes them an authority on what is safe? They have a hard enough time determining what is kosher. ”
And what makes you so anxious for your yinglach to eat fruits and vegetables with poisons. The WHO publishes data on acceptable levels of insectiicies and its not rocket science. When in doubt, they should prohibit it. That should make you happy since it will mean there will be more of the contaminated fruits and vegetables at lower prices for you to buy for your family.
8
Jul 20, 2009 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:
"Bug infestation is a kashrus issue, pesticide exposure is not."
It is against halacha to endanger one's health. The bigger issue here is whether known unhealthy foods and food additives will be deemed as not kosher using this new logic. Will foods with MSG, or trans fats be denied hashgacha? Will foods with too much saturated fats be denied hasgacha? I guess arguments might be made that all carbonated soft drinks should be denied hashgacha? will hashgacha be denied for cakes, ice cream, cookies and chocolate as well? This might get very interesting. Let's see where this is heading.
9
Jul 20, 2009 at 05:07 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "Bug infestation is a kashrus issue, pesticide exposure is not."
It is against halacha to endanger one's health. The bigger issue here is whether known unhealthy foods and food additives will be deemed as not kosher using this new logic. Will foods with MSG, or trans fats be denied hashgacha? Will foods with too much saturated fats be denied hasgacha? I guess arguments might be made that all carbonated soft drinks should be denied hashgacha? will hashgacha be denied for cakes, ice cream, cookies and chocolate as well? This might get very interesting. Let's see where this is heading. ”
What about smoking. Or talking on a cell phone while driving? Or not observing speed limits. Let's here from the Rabbis
10
Jul 20, 2009 at 05:06 PM Anonymous Says:
"The WHO publishes data on acceptable levels of insectiicies and its not rocket science"
It is acrually rather complex. How is a safe level determined?
"When in doubt, they should prohibit it."
In that case, all insecticides)except safe natural herbal ones) should be prohibited.
"poison or bugs? Tough choice."
I watched a tv show last night about those who intentionally eat insects. They are full of protein. Of course they aren't kosher(except some locusts. Why are those locusts kosher?)
11
Jul 20, 2009 at 05:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ poison or bugs? Tough choice. ”
Oy vey!
Bugs you are oiver on six lavim!
Poison, an industrial chemical, is more than likely kosher 100%.
I can just imagine the incredible s'char for the mesiras nefesh to avoid eating bugs!
12
Jul 20, 2009 at 04:40 PM Reb Oosher Says:
This is an issue for Hechsher Tzedek, not a kashrus issue. Please Rebbes, back off as it's our or your area of expertise.
13
Jul 20, 2009 at 04:32 PM kashrus pro Says:
wow the rabanut making a kashrus decision ?? maybe they'll serve this with their 'kosher' meals on ElAl??
14
Jul 20, 2009 at 06:33 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ "Bug infestation is a kashrus issue, pesticide exposure is not."
It is against halacha to endanger one's health. The bigger issue here is whether known unhealthy foods and food additives will be deemed as not kosher using this new logic. Will foods with MSG, or trans fats be denied hashgacha? Will foods with too much saturated fats be denied hasgacha? I guess arguments might be made that all carbonated soft drinks should be denied hashgacha? will hashgacha be denied for cakes, ice cream, cookies and chocolate as well? This might get very interesting. Let's see where this is heading. ”
"It is against halacha to endanger one's health. "
No one is disputing that. It's just not a kashrus issue. We have 613 mitzvos. Some deal with kashrus, most do not. If the concensus of gedolim rule that, oh I don't know, Ring Dings are a danger to one's health and should not be eaten, are they then treif or are they simply assur mipenei sakana?
15
Jul 20, 2009 at 07:03 PM Anonymous Says:
"Some deal with kashrus, most do not. If the concensus of gedolim rule that, oh I don't know, Ring Dings are a danger to one's health and should not be eaten, are they then treif "
Does the absence of a certain hashgacha mean that something is traif? There may be other kashrut organizations who are willing to offer hashgacha.
"What about smoking. Or talking on a cell phone while driving? Or not observing speed limits. "
Jews don't usually look for a hashgacha symbol on a package of cigarettes.
16
Jul 20, 2009 at 08:01 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This is an issue for Hechsher Tzedek, not a kashrus issue. Please Rebbes, back off as it's our or your area of expertise. ”
Your chutzpah to tell these rabbonim to "back off" their concern for the health of klal yisroel; If you want to eat this dreche, please stuff yourself. Every additional layer of protection is appreciated and if this keeps poisoned food or even potentially risky food off the kosher market shelves, that is a great advantage.
17
Jul 20, 2009 at 10:19 PM Kashrus Pro Says:
As is usual for the kashrus agencies in Israel... they missed the boat again! Who said there is a problem with the pesticides to people? Until pesticides were banned left and right some 15 years ago, people were eating the fruits and veggies without a problem. This wont be a problem either. If they were soooo concerned, they should put a note on the produce to wash it well and all will be more than fine.
18
Jul 20, 2009 at 10:49 PM Anonymous Says:
“ As is usual for the kashrus agencies in Israel... they missed the boat again! Who said there is a problem with the pesticides to people? Until pesticides were banned left and right some 15 years ago, people were eating the fruits and veggies without a problem. This wont be a problem either. If they were soooo concerned, they should put a note on the produce to wash it well and all will be more than fine. ”
Dear "Kashrus Pro". You are so right...our whole family misses all those wonderful pesticides that were banned by the environmental agencies around the world. They added such a "special ta'am" to all our salads. Hopefully, your family will not need to worry about what caused your untimely passing. It will be from an "overdose of lettuce with Malathion and Orthox dressing" (with perhaps a few DDT croutons).
19
Jul 21, 2009 at 12:27 AM Kashrus Pro Says:
“ Dear "Kashrus Pro". You are so right...our whole family misses all those wonderful pesticides that were banned by the environmental agencies around the world. They added such a "special ta'am" to all our salads. Hopefully, your family will not need to worry about what caused your untimely passing. It will be from an "overdose of lettuce with Malathion and Orthox dressing" (with perhaps a few DDT croutons). ”
You make choyzik nicely but you didnt address the point in question aside for give a k'lola (btw, back at ya!) so please, if you have nothing half decent to say, dont say anything.
Bottom line is nothing happened to the people. Most of the pesticides were stopped because of the poor birdies.
20
Jul 21, 2009 at 06:02 AM Anonymous Says:
I am amazed at the ignorance of some of the above people.
1. People shouldn't eat bugs 2. People shouldn't eat so much instecticide that Ch'VSh it has a good chance of giving people cancer etc. The health authorities know how much insecticide people can consume before statistically having a chance of getting sick.
It is not a choice of eating the bugs or the poison - it's not that I need to eat the vegies and will allow myself to be poisoned. Not really complicated
21
Jul 21, 2009 at 02:55 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You make choyzik nicely but you didnt address the point in question aside for give a k'lola (btw, back at ya!) so please, if you have nothing half decent to say, dont say anything.
Bottom line is nothing happened to the people. Most of the pesticides were stopped because of the poor birdies.
”
It's for the health of the people
and for the health of the insects.
Rabbonim are encouraged to use the best science or other technical advice at their disposal during their time and in their society. The best science has determined that there are potential dangers at the gross physical, genetic, and molecular levels. The dangers are serious enough to warrant bans.
22
Jul 21, 2009 at 08:46 AM Anonymous Says:
"1. People shouldn't eat bugs "
That is a cultural and religious matter. In some societies bugs are an important part of the diet. They are high in nutrition and easy to cultivate. While you might view eating bugs as being disgusting, other view eating cows or chickens as being disgusting.
"2. People shouldn't eat so much instecticide that Ch'VSh it has a good chance of giving people cancer etc. The health authorities know how much insecticide people can consume before statistically having a chance of getting sick."
Don't believe that. There is no magical amount below which it is completely safe, and above which it is dangerous. It is dangerous in any quantity, and authorities just choose some arbitrary cutoff point.
"Not really complicated"
Actually very complicated. One can try to minimize the amount of insects or insect parts in their diet, however no matter how careful one is, there will always be some insects or insect parts consumed.
23
Jul 21, 2009 at 11:48 AM Of course it's Yoreh Deah Says:
To Raphael Kaufman and other people who say this is not Yoreh Deah: See Yoreh Deah 116.
24
Jul 23, 2009 at 06:15 AM Milhouse Says:
“ "1. People shouldn't eat bugs "
That is a cultural and religious matter. In some societies bugs are an important part of the diet. They are high in nutrition and easy to cultivate. While you might view eating bugs as being disgusting, other view eating cows or chickens as being disgusting.
"2. People shouldn't eat so much instecticide that Ch'VSh it has a good chance of giving people cancer etc. The health authorities know how much insecticide people can consume before statistically having a chance of getting sick."
Don't believe that. There is no magical amount below which it is completely safe, and above which it is dangerous. It is dangerous in any quantity, and authorities just choose some arbitrary cutoff point.
"Not really complicated"
Actually very complicated. One can try to minimize the amount of insects or insect parts in their diet, however no matter how careful one is, there will always be some insects or insect parts consumed. ”
1. Who cares what "some societies" think? We have a Torah to tell us what is right, and it says bugs are bad and chickens are good.
2. Garbage. The dose makes the poison. There is indeed a threshold for ANY substance below which is is completely harmless, and another threshold below which it is BENEFICIAL. There is NO SUBSTANCE IN THE WORLD that is dangerous in any quantity.
25
Jul 23, 2009 at 06:12 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Dear "Kashrus Pro". You are so right...our whole family misses all those wonderful pesticides that were banned by the environmental agencies around the world. They added such a "special ta'am" to all our salads. Hopefully, your family will not need to worry about what caused your untimely passing. It will be from an "overdose of lettuce with Malathion and Orthox dressing" (with perhaps a few DDT croutons). ”
DDT is completely harmless to humans, in almost any dose at all.
26
Jul 23, 2009 at 06:10 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Finally! someone who understands that kashrus does not exist in a vacuum . It remains, however, the responsibility of the consumer after noting whether the product is kosher to make sure the food or other product is safe to use or is useful at all. I once saw a product in the supermarket which while kosher had not food ingredients at all (water,artificial flavors, stabilizers, and preservatives)
The answer is grow or buy organically grown fruits and vegetables. If I can do it on my income many can. I just avoid spending money on "Harry Potter"and other frivolous pursuits. ”
If you think those are any healthier, you're fooling yourself. There is nothing wrong with "water,artificial flavors, stabilizers, and preservatives".
27
Jul 23, 2009 at 06:09 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Its mutar to eat poison? ”
No, but most pesticides are not harmful to humans, in reasonable doses, or even slightly unreasonable ones; it's unlikely (but possible) that they're really using so much that it could pose a threat to human health.