New York – You may applaud the idea of ordaining women rabbis, or you may recoil in horror at the prospect, but the simple fact remains that women already serve the Orthodox world in clergy-like positions.
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Women teach Torah in various settings, answer questions of Jewish law on many matters, provide guidance on issues of Jewish theology to individuals and otherwise function as “clergy.”
All Orthodox Jews ought to agree that these women deserve the best training possible. We certainly should recognize that they are entitled to parsonage under the Federal tax code.
The best way to accomplish this is for our community to start many different training programs for Orthodox women who wish to work as clergy.
Titles do matter, of course, and the title of this article was picked with some care: “Clergy,” a term broader than “rabbi,” is defined by Webster’s as “the group of men and women who are ordained as religious leaders and servants of God.” (In the Catholic tradition, for example, nuns are certainly clergy, though they do not perform sacraments and cannot provide communion, the central rite of Catholicism.)
Women Studying Torah: A Brief Overview
Jewish law generally does not change in terms of its core principles, at least not as understood by the Orthodox community. Change is effected in only three real ways: Innovative re-understanding (chiddush); rabbinic decree (takanah) and emergency decrees (hora’at sha’ah). Each of these has, at various times and places, altered the very face and form of Jewish law and community.
The first two, while not the focus here, are nonetheless worthy of brief explanation.
Throughout Jewish legal history, scholars of halacha have advanced novel understandings of classical sources – understandings that have changed the practice of Judaism, from Boaz’s assertion in the Book of Ruth that a Moabite woman may marry a Jew, to Rabbi Ovadia Yosef’s recent assertion that in cases of surrogacy the DNA mother (rather than the birth mother) is considered the mother according to Jewish law.
So too, change through rabbinic decrees prohibiting that which is otherwise permitted has transformed the face of Jewish law: consider, for example, Rabbeinu Gershom’s decrees prohibiting polygamy and coerced divorce and their dramatic impact on Jewish law and society.
Neither of these mechanisms, however, is as far-reaching or as powerful as exigent decrees, the rarely used power to abrogate Jewish law and do that which is prohibited in order to allow Judaism to survive. As the Talmud recounts with regard to the decision to take what had been an exclusively oral tradition and record every aspect of that tradition in writing, “it is the time to act for the sake of God, to avoid destruction of God’s Torah.”
Women’s study of Torah was the subject of exactly such a process one century ago when a group of famous rabbis – led by the Chofetz Chaim and the Admor from Gur – decided to encourage women to study Torah. The Chofetz Chaim wrote (Likutei Halachot, Sotah 20b):
It seems that all of this [prohibition against women learning To rah] applies only to times past when all daughters lived in their fathers’ home and tradition was very strong, assuring that children would pursue their parents’ path, as it says, “Ask your father and he shall tell you.” On that basis we could claim that a daughter needn’t learn Torah but merely rely on proper parental guidance. But nowadays, in our iniquity, as parental tradition has been seriously weakened and women, moreover, regularly study secular subjects, it is certainly a great mitzvah to teach them Chumash, Prophets and Writings, and rabbinic ethics, such as Pirkei Avot, Menorat Hamaor, and the like, so as to validate our sacred belief; otherwise they may stray totally from God’s path and transgress the basic tenets of religion, God forbid.
This approach, which reflects the needs of the times and the dangers of under-education in the modern world, stands in direct contrast to the formulation of Jewish law found in Rambam and Shulchan Aruch, which apparently prohibits such study. It is important to note that while the Chofetz Chaim’s formulation has the appearance of being less than ideal (bedi’eved), in reality, his construct – like the change from a purely oral Torah to an oral Torah that is written down, as Rav Yehuda HaNasi mandated – is really an adaption to changing times.
Even those who paint a slightly less radical story of this change and maintain that the statement of halacha was a case of innovation (chiddush), as women were always technically allowed to study oral law (the Rambam’s formulation of “tzevo chachamin,” used to prohibit women’s Torah study, does not create a formal issur), agree that for centuries the practice was not to allow women to study Torah and so the change was still quite radical.
Problem With the Status Quo
We all agree that a dramatic change has taken place in the last fifty years. By and large we live in a society where many women are studying Torah intensively and participating extensively in a plethora of professional capacities, including many different roles in Jewish communal life: Women teach our children, found and run our schools, counsel troubled adults, run social service agencies, lecture on Torah topics and texts and serve as outreach professionals.
Women also study a large variety of Torah subjects and texts – far beyond what was studied a generation ago – at sister institutions of numerous great yeshivot and at many independent Torah institutions. Reflecting these changes, Rav Soloveitchik wrote simply and directly nearly fifty years ago (Community, Covenant and Commitment, page 83) that “not only is the teaching of Torah she’b’al peh to girls permissible, but nowadays an absolute imperative… Boys and girls alike should be introduced into the inner halls of Torah she’b’al peh.
Just as, in order to save Torah from total destruction 2,000 years ago, the oral law had to be put into writing in direct violation of Jewish law, the oral law now needs to be studied by men and women alike if Torah is to be preserved. If that seems like a radical position, consider that today one would be hard pressed to find an Orthodox high school that does not, in fact, teach portions of the oral law to girls.
The above-mentioned changes have created something of a dilemma: What should those women who have studied Torah for several years after high school or college do for a living? I confess to having counseled many such women to “go to law school,” assuring them that if they can master a halachic tome by Rav Moshe Feinstein or Rabbi Y.M. Epstein, they can master a legal work by Benjamin Cardozo or Louis Brandeis. I had given that advice because there were few, if any, good careers in Torah for women, despite the personal realization that this represented a significant loss for the Jewish people.
Training Women as Orthodox Clergy
We all see and sense that there are aspects of the clergy role in which women do better than men, and our community would be deficient if we did not, in fact, have women already serving in quasi-clerical roles. What the community needs is a training process – analogous to the one we have for men – to ensure that women are properly trained in halacha, theology, and pastoral matters and practice in order to best serve our community.
Training people for a job is more prudent that expecting them to do such a job untrained. If they are serving in these roles and servicing our community well, the Orthodox community will grow.
The opening of institutions to train women as members of the Orthodox clergy would be an excellent alternative to law school, and would serve as a logical progression in the development of women’s Torah education in the Orthodox community.
Some will insist that whatever role women clergy play, they may not answer questions of Jewish law. This does not, however, seem to be mandated by halacha. As the Chinuch (mitzvah 152) noted many centuries ago, as a matter of Jewish law there is no issue with a woman answering questions of halacha if she is qualified to do so. Women involved in kiruv regularly answer questions of halacha and hashkafa. Should we not want to see to it that women in this field have adequate training to handle the issues that frequently present themselves?
Indeed, in Israel women are being trained to assist other women in taharat hamishpacha matters as yoatzot halacha and the rabbinical courts of Israel have welcomed women as advocates in the area of divorce as toanot rabbaniyot. Both of these formal programs and the many informal programs in Israel recognize that training is important to those who are in the field.
This does not mean women would or should be called “rabbi.” For reasons ranging from formal authority (serarah) being limited to men, to the title being given only to those who can serve as witnesses or function as chazzanim, to it simply being a matter of tradition, it is reasonable to argue that a different title should be given.
Nor does this does mean training for women in the Orthodox clergy must be identical to the training men receive for the rabbinate. Women sometimes bring different pastoral approaches that require different training. All of this is secondary to the fact that formal institutional training for women who wish to be part of the Orthodox clergy – teaching, preaching and answering questions of halacha and hashgacha – is an improvement over the current lack of any formal training and therefore a good idea. Such programs, granting degrees conferring fitness to be a member of the Orthodox clergy, are a wise idea whose time has come.
Some Objections – and a Reply
Some will no doubt protest that this will all lead down a slippery slope toward egalitarian services. Personally, I think this slope is unlikely to slip. Pastoral and halachic matters undertaken by clergy are quite distinct within Orthodoxy – from the liturgical work of a chazzan to the sexton duties of a gabbai to the rabbinical court responsibilities of a dayan. In England, different members of the clergy (not all of whom even have semicha) go by distinctly different titles, reflecting different roles: reverend, minister, rabbi, and dayan; maybe that is a fine idea worth importing to America.
Others object to this type of training based on their disagreement with the worldview (hashkafat olam) of specific individuals involved in organizing the first training program for Orthodox women clergy. (Let me be honest: I share many of those objections). But the solution to that objection is to open alternate training programs with different faculty, staff, students and worldviews. It would be a shame if a good idea were abandoned merely because some in the Orthodox comm unity think ill of the people who first thought it.
So, yes, certifying people – men and women – as well-trained Orthodox clergy is a good idea, and certainly better than the status quo, which allows essentially untrained women to function in pastoral roles.
In the end, our community can only grow and flourish with well-trained clergy – both men and women – teaching, preaching and counseling God’s Torah. I look forward to all my children – both my sons and my daughters – being scholars and students of God’s living legacy on this planet.
Michael J. Broyde is the founding rabbi of the Young Israel in Atlanta, a law professor at Emory University and a dayan in the Beth Din of America.
This is what you get when you have a Rabbi who is a law professor. One long drei-kup article!
Truly an opinion worthy of consideration. This may cause much protest. I find myself uneasy with this opinion, but in these days and times, it is something that needs to be examined objectively. Y’H we will move in a direction that will strengthen der gansa kehila.
This is why the JP is no longer accepted in my home.
Please read the Likutei Halachos carefully.
The Chofetz Chaim never condoned “changing with the times” he only permitted what was already permitted.
The Chofetz Chaim never permitted the teaching of gemara to women.
Second we should never stand shoulder to shoulder with groups that have a feminist agenda Rav Moshe already said that the ERA is chazer fees. These Midrashot are the Jewish equivalent of the ERA.
I can smell Apostasy here!
Sounds like Reform ideas have made their way into our midst!
As they say, get rid of the BAD APPLE before it spoils the rest!!!
WHH
No wonder they call that paper the “Jewish Mess.” While nothing is inherently wrong with many of the ideas posited in this article, There is something definitely wrong with the overall tone which attempts to mask a hidden agenda. There is nothing wrong with women learning Torah; there is something wrong with calling them “Clergy”. There is nothing wrong with women involving themselves in certain careers that involve some expertise in Torah. There is something wrong with using goyishe criteria to define these careers. Please spare the conservadox philosophies, and save them for the three point plans, or five point plans of Manhattan’s executive board rooms.
I did not read this article but I have one thing to say.
For hundreds of years the kehilas in Klal Yisroel always had rebbitizens and they severed a vital function. With the shteiblization of yiddishkeit perhaps it has become less of the Rabbi’s wife’s job and more of ‘independent’ rebbetzin. But the ‘job’ of women leaders has been around and defined for a very long time we don’t ned to reinvent it or even relabel the position.
I know women who know Halacha as good or better than most Kollel men
i do support the idea of women being rabonim ,it not great because they are pretty pentup and strickt in what they belive, but I would give it a ry..just I cant see how a lady could be a shochet?
There is no need for women Rabbis, by definition in halacha a womens role is different as that of the man!
Maybe this Rabbi would like to make a “new” religion where women can become Rabbis in ours there is no Rabbi amongst women>
Yes women should be knowledgeble in Torah so should any other Yid but pls do not confuse our religion with any other!
I liked that other article from YNet written by a modernista, about how Yidden should have large families. A woman gets smicha and then finds a shul to accept her, and the probability is that while she’s pursuing this new career she will fail to get married and raise a family.
Did anybody ever hear of “Rabbi” Sally Priesand? First Reform woman rabbi, you guessed it, she never married and never had children.
Is this a “good thing” for Yidden, a new batch of single, childless women?
And although we don’t talk about it much we had the nevaiah Devora and other women leaders in the past who could posken.
WHH
reply to #9 . Yes Mr. Hall, there is something wrong with awarding a title or certificate to a woman as a “pastor” or a member of the “clergy”, however, there is nothing wrong with a woman learning Torah, even to the point of excellence in a certain inyan. The problem is not the “certificate” but rather the perception of society towards the certificate or title which causes a muddling of the lines. A non-religious entity might not be able to distinguish the difference between a member of the “clergy” and a Rav. Perhaps those holding such certificates or titles might be commissioned to determine public policy, and the lines become even more muddled. Very likely the acceptance of such a title might even confuse the holder as to the true status of the “title” and then muddling the lines so completely that they form a new religion, Reformed, for example, or haven’t you heard of the evolution of intermarriage from their “Temple” pulpits? or Are you not able to broaden your thoughts to the degree where you can imagine this all too unfortunate scenario which has had disastrous consequences for American Jewry?
I am unnerved by women who want to be congregational leaders/rabbis.
I do not see any problem if a woman wants to visit the sick or be a jewish teacher. there is much that a woman can do to contribute to judiasm without crossing bounderies that are well established.
The Maskilim didn’t start with erasing parts of the Torah, they started with finding every “Lielei Mistafina” of the last thousand year’s response, and they said “Ani Loi Mistafina”. The Nodeh Beyehudah might fear Paskening against the ruling of a Rishon but THEY (the Maskilim) had no problem whatsoever. Little by little they threw away the façade of “Halachic inquiry” and openly erased parts of the Torah; after all, “Eis Laasos Lashem HAFEICHI Toirosecho, and hafeichu they did indeed, Mit Alleh Pitchivkes.
Yes, some changes are allowed when a monstrous situation arises, like the one which the Sages (Amoro’im) saw that the Torah will be forgotten, therefore THEY allowed it to be put into writing. BUT first and foremost, a situation needs to be declared “monstrous”; and the ones to declare it as such NEEDS to be the Gedoilei Yisroel, not from an OOPGEFREGTE source as Rabbi Broyde admits.
Indeeed Judaism has changed in the last fifty years – for the BETTER.
The heilige Chasam Sofer said Chodosh Asr Min hatorah.
Mark my words- after “woman Rabbis” it will be why not Gay Rabbis.
Maybe if morahs got the same respect that rebbes do- getting the same salary, same tuition break for their kids etc- then women who are learned in Torah would stop looking towards semicha as the answer…
Quoting from a wise individual, “If a woman has done all the mitzvos required of a woman, and wants to do more, then by all means, put on tefillin, wear a yamuka, etc.”
Whether Rabbi Broyde is a scholar or not is irrelevant. This is a shaila too big for anyone except Gedolim.
It is interesting that in this, and many other articles, the response is to attack the individual or make broad generalizations.
Frankly, this is not the way to respond.
Too often, we get caught up in attacking the individual (known as “ad hominum” attacks) without addressing the issue. He presented some ideas, some new (or even radical) and some less new. I disagree with some of his suggestions but find it hard to call him an apikoros (really now: did you learn Sanhedrin or the Rambam before you tossed out labels like that? If so, don’t just call him a name, tell us how he meets the criteria of apikorsus). I don’t know Rabbi Broyde but did hear him speak once: he didn’t strike me as wanting to start a new religion. I doubt that the BDA would accept him if he did.
And the generalizations!
–Let’s not be absurd and confuse Women learning Torah with the Gay Rights movement! And these Women won’t get married and have children?The one example is a Reform “Rabbi”…how does that advance a Torah-true agenda? I know women who learned for years and are married with children. I know women who didn’t learn for years and aren’t married.
–Is he really an “embarrassment to Orthodox Yidden?” I know a number of frum Yidden who respect him highly and one Rabbi who worked with him on the BDA. Who are you to speak for all frum Yidden?
–“Only HE thinks that he is smarter then ALL the Gedoilei Yisroel” Really? You know that of him? He told you this? ALL of the Gedolei Yisroel?
Making every new idea evidence of apikorsus or every different derech a justification for attack is, IMHO, a factor in our continued golus.
My Rav taught me that sinas hinam isn’t “baseless” but “insufficient.” I may disagree with Rabbi Broyde’s thesis but it is certainly insufficient to attack him as an apikoros and label him an embarrassment.
Anyone who advocates female rabbis has no respect for the Jewish Woman’s crucial and irreplaceable role in the transmission of the Mesorah. Without that, there literally would be no yiddishkeit today.
The Jewish woman’s traditional role is as important, if not MOREimportant to Klal Yisraeld, than the role of any rabbi or Rav.
I have had my differences with Rabbi Broyde in the past, and I will continue to do so in the future. I have my opinions about him as I am sure he has his about me. For now, I would like to take one assertion he made and give you my reactions. He states that “Some will no doubt protest that this will all lead down a slippery slope toward egalitarian services. Personally, I think this slope is unlikely to slip.” At various times in the past, there have been “egalitarian Orthodox services” in both Manhattan and Chicago. What is more important is that many of the leading “Orthodox” feminists have stated positions that are clearly outside halacha and even basic ikkurei emunah. I should know, having attending two JOFA conferences. When a speaker can say that women’s prayer groups are saying kaddish even though “this is not yet accepted as being within the framework of halacha” or when a highly-regarded scholar can say that she hopes to see the day that we recognize that when rabbonim held that something was de’oraisah, they were only advancing their own agendas. (Please note that the individual who said this at an Israeli conference 10 years or so ago was sharply rebuked by Rabbis Aaron Lichtenstein and Michael Rosenzweig, neither of whom can be considered right wing.) The point is that those who are pushing in this direction are already down the slippery slope, and slipping even further. For us not to object and protest is to help and abet the continued slide.
These are the Sarah Schnerer of todays dor. BH the revolution is starting. This will only bring brachah to klal yisroel
The Jewish women’s role is to stay home and watch the kids and also to go work 9-5 to support her husband. This is the 50 year old mesorah. How dare you try to change such an ancient mesorah.
This article never says women should be rabbis, certainly not in the traditional sense. What it does say is that because women are serving in all sorts of pastoral and teaching roles, it makes sense to provide both training and some kind of accreditation in recognition of that fact. How that argument gets twisted around the way some posters here have done is just mind-boggling. And I find it interesting that an op-ed article by a prominent Orthodox rabbi is denigrated as apikorsis and that the Jewish Press is demeaned by a couple of the comments as well. Kudos to the Jewish press for publishing a refreshing range of opinions within the frum community. To the person who said an article like this is why you don’t let the Jewish Press into your home — well, this article is why I ONLY let the Jewish Press into my home and not the yeshivishe papers that shy away from anything thought-provoking or even the slightest bit “controversial.”
it is very telling that the author begins by stating that “other religions” have titles for women clergy ie the roman catholics have nuns-rachmanus litzlan!
Elevating women to the status of rabbi seems almost mocking to more religious jews (mostly men) who ascribe to a life of study and do not pursue the title and seniority of becoming a rabbi. mostly these are women of the reform movement today. I for one feel unorthodox to regard a woman as a true rabbi in any context. Most of the women who refer to themselves as “rabbis” are strong in jewish thought and speech, but clearly do not deem greater religious standing. I admire their interest in jewish learning and their verbal and social abilities, however I can not feel accustomed to that person being my personal rabbi. It would be good if there is a consensus on this topic so that leadership can be given to women of all levels of our faith. It would be wonderful if some of these women would be encouraged to shine in other jewish roles such as educator, director or visitor of the sick and comfortor of the bereaved. I am a little uncomfortable knowing some women who would like to be referred to as “rabbi” given my own feelings on the topic. I really do not wish to denigrate them .. but i can not in any manner feel proper in referrring to them as a rabbi.
Isn’t the word Rabbi a Mascullin word in Hebrew.
Coke is still the real thing!
Pepsi isn’t Coke.
RC isn’t Coke.
Jews evolve towards the direction of their past, not in revolt of their past.
Many amazing women are on the real (Coke) orthodox seen, none need to be ordained they know how to lead klal Yisroel.
I have met many wonderful women in the frum world who easily surpass me in Torah knowledge and midos. These are women who are active in all levels of the kehillah and yet, none of them has ever demanded that they be given an official title. In fact, none of them even care about receiving recognition. They seem happy to help kal Yisroel out of love and not for the respect. This leads me to believe that the people who want a title mighty have some haughtiness to deal with.
Isn’t this all so obvious? I view this opinion as an advent to Moshiach, where women and men equal in strength.
it is disingenuous to quote Rav Soloveitchik ztl and not for example the opinoin of R M Feinstein Ztl who expressly forbade the teaching of Gemara to women – this is not a balanced article, he has an agenda that is not backed up by any of our Gedolim. that, in itself, makes it Treif. Quote a single ‘Gadol’ by almost any definition, who agrees with this hairsplitting nonsense about the distinction between ‘clergy’ and Rabbi – A convert, however great, cannot hold a position of authority in kelal Yosrael (though, by dint of his personal learning, he could conceivably become a Gadol Hador, viz. Shemaya & Avtalyon!) – Moshe and Aharon would have no credibility in Bais DIn as witnesses, this is the Ratzon Hashem, either accept it and get on with life, or try to squeeze the Torah to fit your own political/sociological agenda. in the final analysis, it is all about trying to fathom Ratzon Hashem vs. trying to get him to fit in with your ratzon. Voltaire wryly observed that ‘In the beginning G-d created Man in Hos own image. Over the millennia, man has strived to repay the compliment!!!’
Devora Haneviah wasn’t a posek, she was a neviah. All the Imohos, and Esther hamalka and other women were neviohs, but, that didn’t mean they gave piskei halacha. To compare these women rabbits to Devora haneviah is ridiculous.
the gemara and shulchan oruch that prohibits women studying torah knew about devorah hanvia as much as all the blog readers do. the chafetz chaim only writes about learning chumish NOT rashi, see Vayoel Moshe mamar loshen hakodesh. YU, the rav et al isnt representative of traditional orthodoxy.
Let the men sit and learn and becom rabonim and the women be rebetzins what happened to the home made cholent and kishka or the holoptsen and kreplach that the rebetzins used to cook and bake for the shul ????
I’m late to the game here, but the fear in these comments are palpable. I would wager that the biggest opponents to women obtaining any kind of rights or power are. . men. Men whose wish is for women to bear them 9 children, and take care of them, and “make cholent”, not “get any recognition – it’s so haughty!”, and “just be a rebbitzen!”. Sounds like you want a servant, not a wife.
Martin Luther King once stated that those in power that oppress others never admit to their oppression, even when given unequivocal evidence of it. They become defensive and aggressive. And these comments are incredible proof of that.
When women were fighting for the right to vote in the 1920’s, the opposition stated that it would: (1) Make women childless and old spinsters. (2) Destroy the fabric of moral society. (3) Turn women into men.
That has proven incorrect. It is simply a culture of fear. Fear that women might be better teachers, better leaders, and a fear of competition that induces such loathing to the idea that women better their own minds. Perhaps women are fearful as well – they have accepted a submissive lot in life, and perhaps they are jealous of those that have chosen a different path. For whatever reason, we have chosen to subjugate and oppress our biggest asset: Our Women.
Devorah haneviah and Rashis daughters aren’t an anomaly. They’re simply a glimpse of what could be if we would only remove our hatred and debasement of human beings. Frankly, I personally think it’s time for another Golda Meir to head Israeli government.
The Chofetz Chaim as quoted said they’re learning secular subjects that will take them off the path, better to learn chumash navi etc. To teach them secular subjects (apikursos) along with the notion that woman are intended equals and chavrusos of men is worse then learning secular subjects alone. It’s apikursos with a hechsher.
I sent an email to the JP (letters
jewishpress.com) against the article. They were all huffy about it and defended it. I wonder if they will print any letters against. They seem in the tank with this guy.
Basically, his point is that seeing as these women will posken anyway, better they actually know what they are talking about. By that token, maybe we should give accelerated courses to chiropractors and other quacks because they are healing anyway. Maybe we should call “Rabbi” Broyde a gadol hador or even a rishon because he gives his opinions like he was. What a prize moron. Can I ask him pshat in the Rambam in Mechiras Shtaros or did the “Rabbi” doctor not study that part.
#107 excuse you ‘blondget’ (strayed) onto the wrong site. this si not a site for MO, conservative, reform christian and down. this site for ehrliche torah observant yidden who still adhere to all taryag mitzvos expounded in the 4 parts of S’U 9 (oral law)
#113 …. hamodia, der yid, machne chredi.etc,..would’nt publish such apikorses. so JP does ,so i can say ‘they’re in the tank with him’. and please dont come with ‘free speech’.the torah does not alow free speech when its kefireh.
#119 reform say the same . i dont state opinions. you admitt your not observant as you state ‘the haredim’ so that makes you not haredim ‘ulfu shehotzi atzmo min haklall’ yes, the MO are mattir what is even issurei deoirayse,(hope you know what that means).plenty MO clergy think they have the koach to be mattir where gonay hadores didnt dare tread. see rahmans .clergy’ .so by getting insulted wont change the facts.and its not any’rabbi’ and its not my haskafos . yoiu can be a novel bishus hatoraah. ok now whats the heter of mixed swimm, wearing pants, and quite a few others.so this is your view? your haskafa? so please dont get insulted.if the truth is insult and you cant take the heat get out othe kitchen.