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Jerusalem - Charedim Claim That Psychiatrist says 'starving mother' Mentally Healthy |
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Undated photo from the mom and the child
However, the psychiatrist who examined the mother, Dr. Yaakov Weil, refused to discuss the evaluation's results in a talk with Ynet. Earlier, when asked whether he formulated an opinion in the case, the psychiatrist said this kind of information was privileged.
The so-called "starving mother" will be brought to the Jerusalem Magistrate's Court Thursday for a hearing on the terms of her house arrest.
While the suspect's relatives refused to address the issue before the evaluation is officially submitted, a close associate of the family hinted in a talk with Ynet that evaluation results prove that the woman is mentally healthy. Another close associate who is said to have seen the report told Ynet that the woman poses no danger whatsoever to her children, and that she is a completely normative individual.
"We are very satisfied and we believe that this is a harsh blow to the Prosecutor's Office and to police," he said.
Members of the Eda Haredit sect who have been accompanying the mother's struggle said that the psychiatrist's report will prove her the case against her is a "blood libel." The sources expressed their hope that the court will release the woman immediately
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Read Comments (72) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 22, 2009 at 06:18 PM Anonymous Says:
OK, so she's not mentally ill. So what conclusion will the courts reach when they see the video?
2
Jul 22, 2009 at 06:12 PM Motti Says:
Quote: "Members of the Eda Haredit sect who have been accompanying the mother's struggle said that the psychiatrist's report will prove her the case against her is a "blood libel."
What a lot of balony!!!
3
Jul 22, 2009 at 06:25 PM Anonymous Says:
I donrt undertand the gantZa fight if she is crazy she has to be in jail and if not get her out?
4
Jul 22, 2009 at 06:26 PM barry Says:
Why was the "edah" against this evaluation?!
Its hypocracy to use it for their benefit if they instructed the woman not to go.
5
Jul 22, 2009 at 06:48 PM Anonymous Says:
She is not being charged with mental illness, but with a crime. The syndrome would only be a possible explanation of motive. Regardless, the question ultimately will hinge on her actions, if they can prove wrongdoing, not her mental status.
6
Jul 22, 2009 at 06:43 PM tootired Says:
“ Why was the "edah" against this evaluation?!
Its hypocracy to use it for their benefit if they instructed the woman not to go. ”
They were against the evaluatioon when they thought it would be detrimental to her. Now that they think it will help her, they are all for it, lemafrayah.
7
Jul 22, 2009 at 06:43 PM Anonymous Says:
“ OK, so she's not mentally ill. So what conclusion will the courts reach when they see the video? ”
Is there a video? Have you seen it??!!!
8
Jul 22, 2009 at 06:40 PM Anonymous Says:
All bloggers that bashed this woman I think own an apology to her.
Just to label someone retarded becuase a doctor said so.
When the news came out last week, I wosn't sure whom to believe. From now on I will never believe the Isreali Gov. any more.
The so called video is not out yet since they prob still need to fix it a little bit, so people should still believe in their story.
Bottom line, this was a total lie from day one.
I would like to know does anyone know where I can send money for her defense?
9
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:04 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Quote: "Members of the Eda Haredit sect who have been accompanying the mother's struggle said that the psychiatrist's report will prove her the case against her is a "blood libel."
What a lot of balony!!! ”
Really??? You know the complete truth??
10
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:23 PM HAGTBG Says:
A few points: (i) if she in fact starved the child, she would probably be better off with being determined to be mentally ill then psychologically fit; as others pointed out the psychological illness was mentioned to explain the acts; but if that doesn't explain otherwise criminal acts then she'll in the end be deemed a criminal, (ii) the mental health professional can not know if the alleged abuse occurred or not, and (iii) I very much doubt a mental health professional could make a determination of health for any person after a single meeting.
11
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Really??? You know the complete truth??
”
The report hasn't been released. So #2 most likely is correct.
12
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ All bloggers that bashed this woman I think own an apology to her.
Just to label someone retarded becuase a doctor said so.
When the news came out last week, I wosn't sure whom to believe. From now on I will never believe the Isreali Gov. any more.
The so called video is not out yet since they prob still need to fix it a little bit, so people should still believe in their story.
Bottom line, this was a total lie from day one.
I would like to know does anyone know where I can send money for her defense? ”
you are clearly lying, you're opinion was set on this womans innocents from the get go, otherwise you would not draw the conclusion that the israeli govt should never ever be trusted. a normal person would say 'from now i will be more incredulous about things the media claims'
13
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:09 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I donrt undertand the gantZa fight if she is crazy she has to be in jail and if not get her out? ”
she is not jailed for being crazy, only for harming her child. that's what has to be proven.
14
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:08 PM Dag Says:
"close associate of the family hinted in a talk with Ynet that evaluation results prove that the woman is mentally healthy"
Is that the same associate who claimed the child underwent chemo? C'mon people, let's wait for some real word
15
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:08 PM Anonymous Says:
The 'Edah" was not against the evaluation, it was only a non-member associate of the "Edah" Reb Dovid Schmiddel who was very against it.
16
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:08 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Quote: "Members of the Eda Haredit sect who have been accompanying the mother's struggle said that the psychiatrist's report will prove her the case against her is a "blood libel."
What a lot of balony!!! ”
Are you so afraid that she will be proven innocent??
You can't handle that all 'foaming at the mouth' bloggers will be proven wrong??
17
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:07 PM Anonymous Says:
“ All bloggers that bashed this woman I think own an apology to her.
Just to label someone retarded becuase a doctor said so.
When the news came out last week, I wosn't sure whom to believe. From now on I will never believe the Isreali Gov. any more.
The so called video is not out yet since they prob still need to fix it a little bit, so people should still believe in their story.
Bottom line, this was a total lie from day one.
I would like to know does anyone know where I can send money for her defense? ”
actually, the mental evaluation report is not out either. This could be wishful thinking or propaganda too.
18
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:25 PM Anonymous Says:
"Members of the Eda Haredit sect who have been accompanying the mother's struggle said that the psychiatrist's report will prove her the case against her is a "blood libel."
I thought we were saving "blood libels" to pogroms, the inquisitions, and the contemporary rumors of jews drinking the blood of christian babies. I guess the Eda Haredit is so beyond contempt that they will use whatever hyperoble will get them some press coverage. In reality, if the doctors say she is ok, she should be released; if not, her other children need to be removed from her home asap. Either way, lets get beyond this despicable name-calling.
19
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:35 PM dovy Says:
“ "Members of the Eda Haredit sect who have been accompanying the mother's struggle said that the psychiatrist's report will prove her the case against her is a "blood libel."
I thought we were saving "blood libels" to pogroms, the inquisitions, and the contemporary rumors of jews drinking the blood of christian babies. I guess the Eda Haredit is so beyond contempt that they will use whatever hyperoble will get them some press coverage. In reality, if the doctors say she is ok, she should be released; if not, her other children need to be removed from her home asap. Either way, lets get beyond this despicable name-calling. ”
wrong genius. this is a blod libel just like wallis was a blood libel just like uzi meshulim was a blood libel just like jews drinking christian blood was a blod libel. the zionist goons are todays inquisitors.
20
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:34 PM Anonymous Says:
Why are so many people have a problem believing the charedi version? Doesn't the Torah give them ne'emonus (more than the other side)? Especially now during the 9 days, let's give her the benefit of the doubt.
21
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:29 PM anti-zionist Says:
“ All bloggers that bashed this woman I think own an apology to her.
Just to label someone retarded becuase a doctor said so.
When the news came out last week, I wosn't sure whom to believe. From now on I will never believe the Isreali Gov. any more.
The so called video is not out yet since they prob still need to fix it a little bit, so people should still believe in their story.
Bottom line, this was a total lie from day one.
I would like to know does anyone know where I can send money for her defense? ”
"From now on I will never believe the Isreali Gov. any more."
Good for you, it only took you 61 years.
22
Jul 22, 2009 at 08:02 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "From now on I will never believe the Isreali Gov. any more."
Good for you, it only took you 61 years. ”
"From now on I will never believe the Isreali Government any more"
So I guess you will start packing for your move to Zimbawai, Tanzania or Baluchistan since you obviously cannot as a matter of principle continue living in a country whose government is so dishonest. Have a safe trip and remember to say birchas hadrerech before your flight. The rest of us will be waving goodbye to such a dreche yid.
23
Jul 22, 2009 at 08:01 PM Anonymous Says:
The bottom line is if there really is a video show it already so that everyone can know the truth(if they have it wouldn't that be the first thing to show in court black on white?)
24
Jul 22, 2009 at 07:51 PM Anonymous Says:
“ wrong genius. this is a blod libel just like wallis was a blood libel just like uzi meshulim was a blood libel just like jews drinking christian blood was a blod libel. the zionist goons are todays inquisitors. ”
Then I guess you should get a cross and nails. This was a legal decison by the courts and needs to be respected.
25
Jul 22, 2009 at 08:42 PM BOCHER Says:
they claim they have on video her removing the IV its a regular cleaning proces that you need to do to prevent infection i had a sibling at home lo alechem who was on IV and we had to do it for him and yes you do remove sometimes to clean and she was given the same instructions and they knew what they were doing when they set up the cam its a blood libel from begining till end
26
Jul 22, 2009 at 08:30 PM AuthenticSatmar Says:
Once again people look to criticize without the facts.
The Dr. met her twice, and only then came to a conclusion.
The Eida was not against the evaluation, they only wanted to use it as a bargaining tool to remove the child from Hadassah and allow her access to her kids.
The hospital has not released any video, and there is no proof it actually exists. It was not shown in court. If it existed it shouldve been shown. The alleged video allegadly shows her removing a feeding tube, hardly showing a pattern of abuse.
The hospital has not released to the defense the complete medical file. What are they hiding?
The child was under Dr's care for months. Was this 'abuse' done under their watch? The child has been hospitalized for months. Why wasn't he provided nutrition until now?
There is a lot to the story that has not been made public. I wonder what the pundits will say when she proves her case.
27
Jul 22, 2009 at 09:03 PM Chacham Mah Nishtanah Says:
“ She is not being charged with mental illness, but with a crime. The syndrome would only be a possible explanation of motive. Regardless, the question ultimately will hinge on her actions, if they can prove wrongdoing, not her mental status. ”
The whole prosecution and attack does hinge on the mental illness. If she is not ill, then she will be given the full benefit of the doubt, as noone will believe that a healthy mother, especially religious, will willingly hurt her child. Even if there is a video, there are many explanations possible. (BTW, if you think about it, it's pretty ludicrous to say that the mother kept on disconnecting the tube, and the hospital never noticed the tube out, or that the formula wasn't being used).
Therefore, the prosecution really needs that she should be considered mentally ill.
28
Jul 22, 2009 at 08:24 PM Anonymous Says:
Its amazing how people still back the israely gvmt when it comes to charaidim when even they admit that there's a double standard (to say the least)against charaidim wake up from your dreams
29
Jul 22, 2009 at 09:52 PM Anonymous Says:
This is not an issue anymore about the woman being innocent/normal innocent/insane criminal/normal criminal/insane. This is about whether the Eidah showing its muscle. So far they have done a great job endearing themselves to the community of Kanaim, Satmars, anti-medina Litvaks, and all the others who have been drinking from the cup of hate and the witches' brew that has been served up for almost a century now. But where their position was arguably logical in the early years when Torah Judaism was on the defensive, today it's a total different story. Where there were just a few hundred Breslov Chasidim when the State of Israel was founded, today there are several hundred Ba'al Teshuvah Yeshivas. There is Chabad and Shuvu and countless of other organizations who are working on a daily basis to bring people to Yidishkeit. It's not just the traffic lights that were put out by the hateful and vicious demonstrations but the light of Torah and Teshuva that was put out in the process. I wish this woman all the best may she and her child have a refuoh shelema. But, come on this woman is just a pawn of a few extremist puppeteers.
30
Jul 22, 2009 at 10:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This is not an issue anymore about the woman being innocent/normal innocent/insane criminal/normal criminal/insane. This is about whether the Eidah showing its muscle. So far they have done a great job endearing themselves to the community of Kanaim, Satmars, anti-medina Litvaks, and all the others who have been drinking from the cup of hate and the witches' brew that has been served up for almost a century now. But where their position was arguably logical in the early years when Torah Judaism was on the defensive, today it's a total different story. Where there were just a few hundred Breslov Chasidim when the State of Israel was founded, today there are several hundred Ba'al Teshuvah Yeshivas. There is Chabad and Shuvu and countless of other organizations who are working on a daily basis to bring people to Yidishkeit. It's not just the traffic lights that were put out by the hateful and vicious demonstrations but the light of Torah and Teshuva that was put out in the process. I wish this woman all the best may she and her child have a refuoh shelema. But, come on this woman is just a pawn of a few extremist puppeteers. ”
I feel your pain! the truth starts to come out, and all you bashers have to fill up your mouth with water..
Despite you're unlimited hate to observant jews the truth will be"h prevail.
31
Jul 22, 2009 at 10:25 PM anonymous Says:
I once brought a 5 day old infant with a slight fever to the ER at Hadassah. After waiting for close to two hours for a doctor to examine her, the young intern said, "We need to do a spinal tap." Knowing (and having experienced) the fact that the doctors often do unnecessary tests in the name of medical research, I responded, "I'd like to get my pediatrician's okay first. It'll take maximum five minutes." The doctor looked at me as if I had just escaped the jungle and THREATENED me, "You can call anyone you want, but if you don't let us do the spinal tap this very minute, we won't do it until we finish taking care of all the children here. That might take many hours and meanwhile your baby might die. And if your baby dies, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE!" .
His little speech made me even more wary of his motives. After all, I had just waited close to two hours for the baby to be examined, why couldn't he wait maximum five minutes! L'maaseh my pediatrician instructed me to allow the spinal tap, and then called the ER to tell them to do it immediately! The intern who did it was not very experienced and it was quite an ordeal, but that's something else.
32
Jul 22, 2009 at 10:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This is not an issue anymore about the woman being innocent/normal innocent/insane criminal/normal criminal/insane. This is about whether the Eidah showing its muscle. So far they have done a great job endearing themselves to the community of Kanaim, Satmars, anti-medina Litvaks, and all the others who have been drinking from the cup of hate and the witches' brew that has been served up for almost a century now. But where their position was arguably logical in the early years when Torah Judaism was on the defensive, today it's a total different story. Where there were just a few hundred Breslov Chasidim when the State of Israel was founded, today there are several hundred Ba'al Teshuvah Yeshivas. There is Chabad and Shuvu and countless of other organizations who are working on a daily basis to bring people to Yidishkeit. It's not just the traffic lights that were put out by the hateful and vicious demonstrations but the light of Torah and Teshuva that was put out in the process. I wish this woman all the best may she and her child have a refuoh shelema. But, come on this woman is just a pawn of a few extremist puppeteers. ”
Aha! so you briefly switched lanes now.. till now your "concern" was the well being of the innocent child and control of the "abusive" "mentally ill" mother..
Now that the vicious balloon full of hot air busted, the truth starts to come out with all of its beauty, and the entire structure of baloney built by the secular antisemites starts to collapse, you feel like fools, so you have to shift gears fast, and start with a new baloney slogan: "forget about the mother, the mother is no issue here (all of a sudden..) the issue is the muscles if the eida..."
Common all morons, get a life and stop with the sinas yisroel.
33
Jul 22, 2009 at 11:01 PM Anonymous Says:
B"H, the truth is popping up, and all bloodsuckers will have to find another scapegoat..
34
Jul 22, 2009 at 10:55 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The whole prosecution and attack does hinge on the mental illness. If she is not ill, then she will be given the full benefit of the doubt, as noone will believe that a healthy mother, especially religious, will willingly hurt her child. Even if there is a video, there are many explanations possible. (BTW, if you think about it, it's pretty ludicrous to say that the mother kept on disconnecting the tube, and the hospital never noticed the tube out, or that the formula wasn't being used).
Therefore, the prosecution really needs that she should be considered mentally ill. ”
Tam from Mah Nishtanah.. the whole accusations was based only and completely on mental illness, since all other kids are perfectly fine and very well taken care of, also there was no other sign of abuse besides this fabricated story of removing the feeding tube, that has no coverage besides a rumor from the hospital that such a tape exists.
now after the evaluation of an independant doctor this lady comes out shining like a diamond.
I would suggest the investigators should take their time and effort now, and start a real investigation on the doctors and hospital staff to determine what they have done wrong to bring this little kid to such a stage.
35
Jul 22, 2009 at 10:20 PM anti-zionist Says:
“ "From now on I will never believe the Isreali Government any more"
So I guess you will start packing for your move to Zimbawai, Tanzania or Baluchistan since you obviously cannot as a matter of principle continue living in a country whose government is so dishonest. Have a safe trip and remember to say birchas hadrerech before your flight. The rest of us will be waving goodbye to such a dreche yid.
”
I have every right to live in Eretz Yisroel, just look up the first Rashi in the Torah. I've got Gedolei Yisroel on my side. Furtheremore, is there even such a thing as an honest government b'zman hazeh?
36
Jul 22, 2009 at 09:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "From now on I will never believe the Isreali Government any more"
So I guess you will start packing for your move to Zimbawai, Tanzania or Baluchistan since you obviously cannot as a matter of principle continue living in a country whose government is so dishonest. Have a safe trip and remember to say birchas hadrerech before your flight. The rest of us will be waving goodbye to such a dreche yid.
”
So far I am not packing, it looks like under Obama they will be packing.
BTW, the article next to this article on VIN, is quoting from A Rabbi Melamed as follows.
In a response which was also sent to Justice Minister Yaakov Ne’eman and religious parliamentarians, Rabbi Melamed said that the High Court ruling came as no surprise. “High Court rulings are driven by a non-Jewish outlook, and undoubtedly judges who share a religious viewpoint would decide completely differently,” the rabbi wrote.
I don't think this Rabbi is a Satmar or NK, or from the Aida. In fact I searched his name in Wikipedia and this is what came up.
Rabbi Melamed has stated that "There must be legislation allowing Jewish people everywhere in the world to become Israeli citizens, even if they do not live here." Melamed viewed this as a way to shore up Israel's Jewish demographic in elections. At the same time, he advocated that some Arab citizens of Israel should be stripped of their civil rights:
37
Jul 22, 2009 at 09:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "Members of the Eda Haredit sect who have been accompanying the mother's struggle said that the psychiatrist's report will prove her the case against her is a "blood libel."
I thought we were saving "blood libels" to pogroms, the inquisitions, and the contemporary rumors of jews drinking the blood of christian babies. I guess the Eda Haredit is so beyond contempt that they will use whatever hyperoble will get them some press coverage. In reality, if the doctors say she is ok, she should be released; if not, her other children need to be removed from her home asap. Either way, lets get beyond this despicable name-calling. ”
"lets get beyond this despicable name-calling"
Except of course if its against the Eida!
Way beyond contempt!
38
Jul 22, 2009 at 09:30 PM Anonymous Says:
Yes, they had a video and did show it to the husband and what did it show, listen to this "that she changed the diaper by herself and didn't let the nurses do it" ... Can u believe what's going on here?
And the interesting part, if there is evidence of abuse why was this women 10 days in jail and brutally investigating her that she should talk, if there is evidence bring it to court and put her in jail.
Obviously the truth talks for itself.
39
Jul 22, 2009 at 11:36 PM Loshon Hora Says:
Now proven wrong how will they back down, how will they compensate her for the pain & danger?
How will they investigate what realy was going on?
Maybe Weintraub should resign he could still sit in the canteen eat Pizza & play ChishGad, just wo't be able to sign kids in & out.No big loss.
JMHO.
40
Jul 22, 2009 at 11:31 PM Anonymous Says:
“ All bloggers that bashed this woman I think own an apology to her.
Just to label someone retarded becuase a doctor said so.
When the news came out last week, I wosn't sure whom to believe. From now on I will never believe the Isreali Gov. any more.
The so called video is not out yet since they prob still need to fix it a little bit, so people should still believe in their story.
Bottom line, this was a total lie from day one.
I would like to know does anyone know where I can send money for her defense? ”
Then why didn't she do the evaluation the first time they asked, child services in the US wouldn't handle the case any differently did you see what the child looked like nebech
41
Jul 23, 2009 at 03:09 AM Shamed to be from the bloggers Says:
“ OK, so she's not mentally ill. So what conclusion will the courts reach when they see the video? ”
what video? we didn”t hear from the police since day 1 about any video!
the video was just part of a way to threaten her to sign that’s she guilty
and even if there is a viedo In the age of photoshop, videos aren’t quite what they used to be.
Just another point:
If Orthodox Jews can side with our worst enemies against their fellow frum Jews, we richly deserve the treatment the world has given us.
If Orthodox Jews can refer to women opting to dress like their (and your!) grandmothers did, covering their shoulders with a nicely fringed shawl, as “burka ladies”, Israel deserves to be called all kinds of vicious names by the world media.
If Orthodox Jews can apply the laws of slander, lashon hara and sinas chinam to the scum of our people yet ignore those laws when the slander, lashon hara and sinas chinam are directed against Jews who are frummer than they are, I can understand why the bleeding-heart liberals take on the cause of the wife-beating, homo-killing Palestinians against “violent” Israel.
What one chareidi says about another, Orthodox Jews say about all chareidim.
What one Orthodox Jew says about another, secular Jews say about all Orthodox Jews.
What one Jew says about another, the world says about all Jews.
מהרסיך ומחריביך ממך יצאו.
42
Jul 23, 2009 at 02:34 AM art6991 Says:
only uneducated and unsensitive ignoramu's would call something like this a blood libel.
chas v'shalom, don't mention that horrible era that carries on until today, indeed last year pesach time, a village in russia sent out flyers warning the residents to keep watch over their chidren ' because these disgusting humans use the blood of innocent chrisitian children to make leavend bread' you should be ashamed of yourselves!
what is going on here is: amother is accused of allegedly starving her child, the hospital claims they have footage of her pulling tubes out of her son's arms, the family says he has cancer and goes into hiding, the mother is arrested, then put on house arrest, chareidi riots break out and make a bad name for jews all around the globe, the mother is summoned for a physchiatric evaluation but does not go, she later goes and is proven metally stable, chareidim plan to boycott Hadassa hospital who say they have the child's best interest t heart.
this subject is way too controversial for spectators like us who onlyknow what the media is spoonfeeding us!
who knows why Hashem planned for this to happen? we are mere mortals and can not comprehend why Hashem does things, taking sides and saying 'what really happened' is undermining Hashem's decree.
say tehillim and pray for the right answer to be found and don't make your selves sound like i said before as uneducated and rude by calling an investigation on a mother 'a blood libel'
43
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:49 AM e. grossmann Says:
“ wrong genius. this is a blod libel just like wallis was a blood libel just like uzi meshulim was a blood libel just like jews drinking christian blood was a blod libel. the zionist goons are todays inquisitors. ”
Wallis was not a blood libel, but a Shaken Baby trauma. This came out of the court acts.
What would you do with someone who killed his child by shaking it vigorously, even if it was not on purpose?
44
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:33 AM Do You Bother To Read Before You Comment Says:
“ Then why didn't she do the evaluation the first time they asked, child services in the US wouldn't handle the case any differently did you see what the child looked like nebech ”
Because the Hadassah hospital refused to transfer the family to Schneiders. She was using her refusal as a bargaining chip, and when she saw it wasn't working, she caved.
45
Jul 23, 2009 at 12:47 AM Another genius Says:
“ wrong genius. this is a blod libel just like wallis was a blood libel just like uzi meshulim was a blood libel just like jews drinking christian blood was a blod libel. the zionist goons are todays inquisitors. ”
Hey, you are on to something. And Mondrowitz is a blood libel, and Kolko is a blood libel, and Rubashkin is a blood libel, and Madoff is a blood libel - oops a mistake on that last one, he is not frum.
Ah, life is simple for simpletons.
(I guess it was a zionist goon who sneaked into Wallis' house when he wasn't looking, tore his baby out of his hands, and bashed the baby's head on the wall.)
46
Jul 22, 2009 at 11:58 PM kingsley the chuchem Says:
Well! Well! the developments are continuing and to all of u I still say EER ALLEH VEYST A KRENK (diddlysquat!) All of u are still writing of conjecture and missing the point! A few hundred violent people closed down the most important city of the world. The Chareidishe world got a black eye from this violence.as evidenced by the Mayor who wanted to show the Charedim who is in charge (and he has every right to be ticked off ! but also not the extreme collective punishment he meted out to all Yerushalmis and never to the Arabs!). The chillonim are gloating at the actions in many cities by the Charedim and it will have long term disastrous consequences for all frum Yiddin. As i wrote previously- The woman has to be thoroughly examined- The hospital and doctors must be also investigated thoroughly and the appropriateness of how the police handled this women under the known circumstances. should be looked into. The only fact is the Chareidish velt and most , NOT ALL!! of it's Rabbonim let people get out of hand to what is acceptable. This is in no way connected to the Hospitals and doctors role in all of this. Torah true yeedin don't permit this violent behavior except to Nazis coming to kill us!!
47
Jul 22, 2009 at 11:59 PM kingsley the chuchem Says:
Well! Well! the developments are continuing and to all of u I still say EER ALLEH VEYST A KRENK (diddlysquat!) All of u are still writing of conjecture and missing the point! A few hundred violent people closed down the most important city of the world. The Chareidishe world got a black eye from this violence.as evidenced by the Mayor who wanted to show the Charedim who is in charge (and he has every right to be ticked off ! but also not the extreme collective punishment he meted out to all Yerushalmis and never to the Arabs!). The chillonim are gloating at the actions in many cities by the Charedim and it will have long term disastrous consequences for all frum Yiddin. As i wrote previously- The woman has to be thoroughly examined- The hospital and doctors must be also investigated thoroughly and the appropriateness of how the police handled this women under the known circumstances. should be looked into. The only fact is the Chareidish velt and most , NOT ALL!! of it's Rabbonim let people get out of hand to what is acceptable. This is in no way connected to the Hospitals and doctors role in all of this. Torah true yeedin don't permit this violent behavior except to Nazis coming to kill us!!
48
Jul 23, 2009 at 04:42 AM e. grossmann Says:
“ what video? we didn”t hear from the police since day 1 about any video!
the video was just part of a way to threaten her to sign that’s she guilty
and even if there is a viedo In the age of photoshop, videos aren’t quite what they used to be.
Just another point:
If Orthodox Jews can side with our worst enemies against their fellow frum Jews, we richly deserve the treatment the world has given us.
If Orthodox Jews can refer to women opting to dress like their (and your!) grandmothers did, covering their shoulders with a nicely fringed shawl, as “burka ladies”, Israel deserves to be called all kinds of vicious names by the world media.
If Orthodox Jews can apply the laws of slander, lashon hara and sinas chinam to the scum of our people yet ignore those laws when the slander, lashon hara and sinas chinam are directed against Jews who are frummer than they are, I can understand why the bleeding-heart liberals take on the cause of the wife-beating, homo-killing Palestinians against “violent” Israel.
What one chareidi says about another, Orthodox Jews say about all chareidim.
What one Orthodox Jew says about another, secular Jews say about all Orthodox Jews.
What one Jew says about another, the world says about all Jews.
מהרסיך ומחריביך ממך יצאו.
”
...and if there is a video where she is seen removing the feeding tube, this means it was played backwards and she really stuck the feeding tube in, isn't it?
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Jul 23, 2009 at 07:05 AM Anonymous Says:
“ ...and if there is a video where she is seen removing the feeding tube, this means it was played backwards and she really stuck the feeding tube in, isn't it? ”
When we will see the footage we'll be able to judge of what we see, meanwhile NOBODY WAS SHOWN THE VIDEO, so I still have the right to believe that no such video exists!
And this whole abuse story was a vicious attempt of some butcher doctors attempt to caver up on a bad malpractice, with the aid of the charedi hating Israeli authorities, with the support of a few frum hating bloggers on the web.
50
Jul 23, 2009 at 06:59 AM Anonymous Says:
“ only uneducated and unsensitive ignoramu's would call something like this a blood libel.
chas v'shalom, don't mention that horrible era that carries on until today, indeed last year pesach time, a village in russia sent out flyers warning the residents to keep watch over their chidren ' because these disgusting humans use the blood of innocent chrisitian children to make leavend bread' you should be ashamed of yourselves!
what is going on here is: amother is accused of allegedly starving her child, the hospital claims they have footage of her pulling tubes out of her son's arms, the family says he has cancer and goes into hiding, the mother is arrested, then put on house arrest, chareidi riots break out and make a bad name for jews all around the globe, the mother is summoned for a physchiatric evaluation but does not go, she later goes and is proven metally stable, chareidim plan to boycott Hadassa hospital who say they have the child's best interest t heart.
this subject is way too controversial for spectators like us who onlyknow what the media is spoonfeeding us!
who knows why Hashem planned for this to happen? we are mere mortals and can not comprehend why Hashem does things, taking sides and saying 'what really happened' is undermining Hashem's decree.
say tehillim and pray for the right answer to be found and don't make your selves sound like i said before as uneducated and rude by calling an investigation on a mother 'a blood libel' ”
Unfortunately this is indeed A BLOOD LIBEL!! a bitter one, one against an innocent person "only because" she's charedi! this case would never reach none of those stages would she be a secular woman.
The hate from some secularists against charedim is simply out of control.
Of course the old era blood libels were much worse than this one, after all we live today in a modern democratic world, with media broadcasting live every update, so you simply can't do what those old time reshoim did in no mans view.
But who would believe that the hate against observant yidden would be on such an alarming level in a state that has the chutzpa to call itself "Jewish"?.
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Jul 23, 2009 at 06:52 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Then why didn't she do the evaluation the first time they asked, child services in the US wouldn't handle the case any differently did you see what the child looked like nebech ”
There are many reasons why she didn't do the avaluation before:
1) there's an attorney handling it and proposing what to do and when to do it. (never would a defendant allow the prosecutor to handle their decisions).
2) they didn't want her do anything until she's free on bail like every other citizen would be released.
3) they wanted an "independent" doctor, not one hired by the prosecutor or other parties involved in fabricating the libel and all lies.
The bottom line is, even if she would've taken an exam way in the beginning, that still wouldn't stop you and all other racists from finding some other stupid reason why to still stretch yourselves to find some guilt on this "frummer" yid.
52
Jul 23, 2009 at 06:49 AM Anonymous Says:
I have no idea what to believe in this case but the one thing that people forget is that at least the child is being looked after and treated medically, at least the authorities are trying to deal with the childs illness. Here in England there was a recent case whereby the aurorities found out about an abused and starved child (non-jewish) when it was to late, the medics were called to a flat and found the child known as 'baby p' slumped on the floor DEAD. At least in this case this child may have a future
53
Jul 23, 2009 at 06:44 AM Anonymous Says:
“ she is not jailed for being crazy, only for harming her child. that's what has to be proven. ”
Wrong! she was definitely arrested due to her illness that caused abuse.
Which turns out now the illness never existed, and there was no abuse.
54
Jul 23, 2009 at 07:09 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Hey, you are on to something. And Mondrowitz is a blood libel, and Kolko is a blood libel, and Rubashkin is a blood libel, and Madoff is a blood libel - oops a mistake on that last one, he is not frum.
Ah, life is simple for simpletons.
(I guess it was a zionist goon who sneaked into Wallis' house when he wasn't looking, tore his baby out of his hands, and bashed the baby's head on the wall.) ”
By now I fully believe that Wallis was a simple lie and yes, a blood libel.
Following the developments of this drama unfolding with this mother, I believe that the corruption in Israel is so bad, that Wallis was probably just framed so they can cover up on something. or just to get a chance of slamming a frum yid.
55
Jul 23, 2009 at 07:26 AM malach Says:
“ All bloggers that bashed this woman I think own an apology to her.
Just to label someone retarded becuase a doctor said so.
When the news came out last week, I wosn't sure whom to believe. From now on I will never believe the Isreali Gov. any more.
The so called video is not out yet since they prob still need to fix it a little bit, so people should still believe in their story.
Bottom line, this was a total lie from day one.
I would like to know does anyone know where I can send money for her defense? ”
Send money for defense to the Toldot Aharon (her group); look it up on wikipedia and see if you can get an address. Memo the check (if that's what you use) with the purpose. Her first name is Yenta which is undoubtedly significant from Shamayim. There has certainly been enough yenta-ing about her and it's time to stop.
Everyone should recognize their error as quickly as you do. Kol tov
56
Jul 23, 2009 at 07:45 AM PMO Says:
“ All bloggers that bashed this woman I think own an apology to her.
Just to label someone retarded becuase a doctor said so.
When the news came out last week, I wosn't sure whom to believe. From now on I will never believe the Isreali Gov. any more.
The so called video is not out yet since they prob still need to fix it a little bit, so people should still believe in their story.
Bottom line, this was a total lie from day one.
I would like to know does anyone know where I can send money for her defense? ”
I don't get your point....where is the lie? The only thing the hospital claimed was that she took the tube out. The video will be presented in court. We still don't know what happened. So because she was found to be sane, that makes her 100% innocent of all charges? What crazy world do you live in. I'll reserve my judgment until ALL the evidence comes out.
57
Jul 23, 2009 at 07:54 AM The Claim Says:
1. Chevra, this woman is being charged not on the basis of being mentally ill but of abusing her son.
2. The prospect of her being mentally ill is a proposed explanation for why she would have abused her son. This would only help the defense, for she would be considered unfit to stand trial.
3. If she does NOT have the illness it will help the side of the prosecutor because she can then stand trial.
58
Jul 23, 2009 at 08:59 AM goldy rosenberg Says:
If a mother was able to supposedly starve her child under the watchful eyes of doctos and nurses for half a year, the doctors and nurses are incompetent. The woman did nothing wrong. The hospital used the kid for research. AND Israel has previously done this in the case of the Moroccon kids subjected to Xrays needlessly. In fact, there was another such case in this hospital, where a parent moved their child to another hospital after needless surgeries and this same hospital tried this same routine -- claiming the parent abused the child (perhaps the parent did the operations too?!!). and for those who say there must have been evidence if the mother was subjected to extreme interogations, the fact she was subjected to it shows there is no evidence so they wanted to coerce her to say something that might damn her.
59
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:34 AM PMO Says:
“ If a mother was able to supposedly starve her child under the watchful eyes of doctos and nurses for half a year, the doctors and nurses are incompetent. The woman did nothing wrong. The hospital used the kid for research. AND Israel has previously done this in the case of the Moroccon kids subjected to Xrays needlessly. In fact, there was another such case in this hospital, where a parent moved their child to another hospital after needless surgeries and this same hospital tried this same routine -- claiming the parent abused the child (perhaps the parent did the operations too?!!). and for those who say there must have been evidence if the mother was subjected to extreme interogations, the fact she was subjected to it shows there is no evidence so they wanted to coerce her to say something that might damn her. ”
Wow... nothing like waiting for all the evidence to come out!
Are people around here really this ignorant? Harsh interrogations are always used in criminal cases unless they get a confession outright. That's how it works. Everywhere.
Secondly, how do you know the woman did nothing wrong? You know NOTHING.... just like the rest of us. All we know is that there is a very sick child and nobody can explain why the child is so sick. So far there is no evidence that the hospital did anything wrong. There may BE evidence, but we have not seen it or heard about it... just worthless anecdotal evidence from lunatics rioting in the street. The only evidence we can be pretty sure of is this video tape because that's the evidence they used to arrest her. And for all the conspiracy theorists out there, stop asking to see the tape... it will be presented in court at the appropriate time. It actually HURTS her defense to have the tape leaked to the media as it could taint the opinions of everyone from jurists to doctors who will be involved.
As for those of you who "know someone who knows someone..." or "heard from someone very reliable...." that something similar happened, provide a name so we can verify the story. If not, the information is worthless. For 20 years the story of "...the guy who woke up in a strange hotel and his kidney had been removed" was floating around. It turned out to be a hoax... but everyone heard the story. Don't believe it until you can prove it.
60
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:19 AM being the "frummest" gives you a pass for any investigation? Says:
just like every community or neighborhood jewish, religious, not jewish or not religious alike have people who are crimminals there is no need to freak out when one in our community is accused of a crime. crime happens everywhere. Being jewish and growing up in meah shearim doesn't automatically make you an innocent person. We all know that within our communities exists abuse of all kinds. don't be so naive to say the being the "frummest'' gives you a pass for any investigation that would be made in any neighborhood jewish or religious or not. Stop always thinking that if a case is made against someone in the frum community its automatically anti chareid. Just like anywhere if there are suspicions of abuse a hospital must take actions. If chas v'shalom the mother is a danger to her child then that child should not be living with its mother. These laws were not made to make the life a chariedi woman a nightmare, they were made to ensure that no child will have to live in abuse. It is unfortunate that the frum community always goes and cries that the system is being unfair. the chareidim in israel choose to live there so let them follow the gvt. if they think the gvt is always out to get them then they should live elsewhere. The world is vast!
61
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:30 AM Rochel Says:
I'm trying to understand the whole crazyness in this topic. why would the hospital make up this crazy story against the mother ? If Hadassah Hospital made a mistake about the diagnosed then they should just appologize and not trying to make it worse.
Last week, I read on british newspapers about a similar story of a man diagnosed with terminal cancer he had to go through all kind of cure and it destroyed his health, until they (the doctors) found out that they made a mistake and he had no cancer but an abcess. This poor man spent all of his money of a lifetime to enjoy the few months he thought he'd have on earth and protect his wife's futur. Now he's broke, with bad health condition... but b"h alive... what a story anyway !!!
62
Jul 23, 2009 at 12:30 PM Rivky Says:
“ All bloggers that bashed this woman I think own an apology to her.
Just to label someone retarded becuase a doctor said so.
When the news came out last week, I wosn't sure whom to believe. From now on I will never believe the Isreali Gov. any more.
The so called video is not out yet since they prob still need to fix it a little bit, so people should still believe in their story.
Bottom line, this was a total lie from day one.
I would like to know does anyone know where I can send money for her defense? ”
The Israeli Gov was not the ones who first suspected her of abuse it was her chareidi doctor and the hospital set up the camera to protect the child. What they saw was her constantly disconnecting her child's feeding tube. The fact that the child is gaining weight and thriving should tell you that there is more to the story.
Besides this article is nothing "official". Until the reports come out officially you can't make judgments on whether it was a lie. Besides what would the hospital gain from framing one women? They will loose a lot of chareidi business and that's not in their best interest.
While I don't trust the Israeli Government either, they are not always wrong. They are the largest supporter of Yeshivos in the world and that is fact.
63
Jul 23, 2009 at 02:12 PM jancsi Says:
“ By now I fully believe that Wallis was a simple lie and yes, a blood libel.
Following the developments of this drama unfolding with this mother, I believe that the corruption in Israel is so bad, that Wallis was probably just framed so they can cover up on something. or just to get a chance of slamming a frum yid. ”
the thing thats terribly corrupted is youre mind you cannot differenciate right from wrong you guys are always the angels and the zionists are always the devils in youre demented damaged mind
64
Jul 23, 2009 at 02:34 PM Anonymous Says:
im suprisd by all your coments I know this woman I went there 2 a week to drive her to and from the hspital she's a harm loving caring mother who gave evrything to this kid I saw this cild he looks that way pepol he HAS CANCER no2 she wantet to pres charges on 2 nurses for mistreating her son and they tretend her that this will hjappen how can you all talk that way about a bas yisrael pleas you ladies out here blaming her are you mothers if yes I hope you never go thru this ever this mother gave her life away for this kid don't you chas veshalom belef what there saying if we chariedim are not standing behind her then what are he rivke put your self in her place wake up !!!
65
Jul 23, 2009 at 05:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ OK, so she's not mentally ill. So what conclusion will the courts reach when they see the video? ”
no body sew a video , in no body wil sew it ! becaus its not exist !!!!
66
Jul 23, 2009 at 05:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I don't get your point....where is the lie? The only thing the hospital claimed was that she took the tube out. The video will be presented in court. We still don't know what happened. So because she was found to be sane, that makes her 100% innocent of all charges? What crazy world do you live in. I'll reserve my judgment until ALL the evidence comes out. ”
Granted, you'll wait for the evidence to come out, is that a good reason to imprison a pregnant mother and deprive the children of their mother ,"until the evidence comes out"?????
67
Jul 23, 2009 at 05:47 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The Israeli Gov was not the ones who first suspected her of abuse it was her chareidi doctor and the hospital set up the camera to protect the child. What they saw was her constantly disconnecting her child's feeding tube. The fact that the child is gaining weight and thriving should tell you that there is more to the story.
Besides this article is nothing "official". Until the reports come out officially you can't make judgments on whether it was a lie. Besides what would the hospital gain from framing one women? They will loose a lot of chareidi business and that's not in their best interest.
While I don't trust the Israeli Government either, they are not always wrong. They are the largest supporter of Yeshivos in the world and that is fact. ”
That is true, the Israeli Government supports the Yeshivos, and that is the biggest tragedy, because that is the "bribery" that blinds your eyes and prevents you from seeing the truth. Any Jew that takes bribery no longer has 20/20 vision.
68
Jul 23, 2009 at 07:36 PM sarah Says:
“ im suprisd by all your coments I know this woman I went there 2 a week to drive her to and from the hspital she's a harm loving caring mother who gave evrything to this kid I saw this cild he looks that way pepol he HAS CANCER no2 she wantet to pres charges on 2 nurses for mistreating her son and they tretend her that this will hjappen how can you all talk that way about a bas yisrael pleas you ladies out here blaming her are you mothers if yes I hope you never go thru this ever this mother gave her life away for this kid don't you chas veshalom belef what there saying if we chariedim are not standing behind her then what are he rivke put your self in her place wake up !!! ”
If he has cancer, how can the hospital cover that up? I am confused by all these people claiming they know the family/situation closely, but have very differing "facts".
69
Jul 23, 2009 at 07:35 PM sarah Says:
“ Granted, you'll wait for the evidence to come out, is that a good reason to imprison a pregnant mother and deprive the children of their mother ,"until the evidence comes out"????? ”
That's how the law works. Until you post bail, you're in jail. If it is determined you are unfit for trial because of a psychological disorder, you go to a hospital. And stay there until you are no longer a danger to others. It doesn't matter if you are pregnant or have children at home.
70
Jul 23, 2009 at 07:42 PM sarah Says:
“ im suprisd by all your coments I know this woman I went there 2 a week to drive her to and from the hspital she's a harm loving caring mother who gave evrything to this kid I saw this cild he looks that way pepol he HAS CANCER no2 she wantet to pres charges on 2 nurses for mistreating her son and they tretend her that this will hjappen how can you all talk that way about a bas yisrael pleas you ladies out here blaming her are you mothers if yes I hope you never go thru this ever this mother gave her life away for this kid don't you chas veshalom belef what there saying if we chariedim are not standing behind her then what are he rivke put your self in her place wake up !!! ”
If anything, the claims of this woman's "supporters" create the aroma of desperate rationalization, and only make her seem guiltier to those who might read the news reports and *already* have a negative opinion on charedim.
71
Jul 23, 2009 at 07:46 PM PMO Says:
“ Granted, you'll wait for the evidence to come out, is that a good reason to imprison a pregnant mother and deprive the children of their mother ,"until the evidence comes out"????? ”
In a fair and just judicial system... yes. And she was not "imprisoned", she was in JAIL for a few days, just as you or I would be here in the US. Don't make it out like they put her in a cage with violent criminals and made her do hard labor.
72
Jul 23, 2009 at 08:48 PM formally Says:
"close associate of the family hinted in a talk with Ynet that evaluation results prove that the woman is mentally healthy"
I think they are missing the point. I think the evaluation is to see if see is sane to stand trial and if she knows right from wrong.
Also, I do not know if she is guilty or innocent, but why is it that some people cannot comprehend that a frum person is ever guilty of any crime. It is always the corrupted Israelis anti semites of people out to get us.
Get over it, we have kooks, criminals, bad and evil people who daven, keep shabbos and do all the other stuff but still do bad and evil things.
If you think that Jews or frum Jews do not do bad think then why did the Torah
has many don'ts and punishment for them. It is a waste of time. The Torahs should have said, if they keep shobbos none of the rest need apply since they are innocent