RSS Feed
New York - Showering During the Nine Days |
|
| |
News Source: OU By Rav Joseph B. Soloveitchik (
Text Size
|
|
When someone’s relative dies, there are three periods of mourning he may have to observe: “Shivah,” the week of intensive mourning right after burial; “Shloshim,” a thirty-day period (including the week of Shivah) in which one observes various mourning restrictions; and when mourning for a mother or father, “Yud Bet Chodesh,” a year (including the week and month of Shivah and Shloshim) of limited mourning restrictions.
Tisha B’Av (this year, July 30th) is a day of such intense mourning that we observe all of the restrictions of Shivah, in addition to fasting. The Ashkenazic custom is to adopt many restrictions of Shloshim during the Nine Days – from Rosh Chodesh Av (this year, July 22nd) until after the Tisha B’Av mourning – and restrictions of Yud Bet Chodesh during the earlier part of the Three Weeks (beginning this year on July 9th).
Rav Moshe Soloveichik explained that the Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh Deah 381:1) records the original Ashkenazic custom not to shower or bathe for the entire Shloshim period. Therefore, the custom was to similarly refrain from showering or bathing during the Nine Days. However, since nowadays the custom is to shower immediately after Shivah and not to be stringent in this regard during the Shloshim period, therefore there is no reason to refrain from bathing during the Nine Days. The old Nine Days custom no longer applies because it was based on a mourning custom that is no longer observed.
Adapted from Shiurei Harav on Mourning and Tisha B’Av, based on the lectures of Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik. This and other books are available for purchase at http://www.ou.org/sefarim
More of today's headlines
“Washington - A new group focused on strengthening Muslim-Jewish relations has come to Washington this week to bring Jewish and Muslim power brokers in government...”
Washington - Rep. Weiner, Snubbed By Muslim-Jewish Groups
Spring Glen, NY - State Will Order Camp at Former Homowack Lodge Shut Down
Total62
Read Comments (62) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:11 AM Overnight Kigel Says:
In Shulchan Aruch it is only permitted to bathe "LEHAVIR ES HAZEIAH" (to remove sweat). Clearly this can be done either with a cold shower, or if one is a MEFUNIC, a very quick warmer shower. To just permit bathing because such is the MINHAG is clearly against halacha. There is a heter if one is sweaty, but certainly the halacha still applies. A custom is not MINAG. It would otherwise be permitted to steal from others, because some certainly have such a MINHAG.
2
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:10 AM Anonymous Says:
its usser to bath in the 9 days period only if someone is dirty or has a medical need
3
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:13 AM Getzel the Pretzel Says:
The heter to shower is based on Tosfos in Berachos that a mefunik can bathe during shivah. Many contemporary poskim, including R' Shlomo Zalman ZT"L, stated that Americans are mefunakim and may bathe to take off that uncomfortable feeling, as would a mefunik. However, this only applies to taking away that feeling and not to enjoying the bathing. Therefore, one should only shower with water temperature that is not totally uncomfortable but does give a person pleasure.
"The old Nine Days custom no longer applies because it was based on a mourning custom that is no longer observed."
From this statement it sounds like showering with hot water and going swimming is allowed. I do not know if the person who translated this did not comprehend the psak or if this is the psak. Sounds like a big chiddish. Please clarify.
4
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:16 AM Overnight Kigel Says:
"The Shulchan Aruch records a "custom". THIS IS HALACHA, the shulchan aruch mentions this "custom" as halacha, not just as a custom. Maybe LOI SIGNOIV and "VEYARAISA MELOKECHA" are also just a "custom"
5
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:19 AM Shimshi brodt Says:
Why are you people making such a fuss from not showering in for nine days nothing is going to happen if you wont shower one whole month Hashem Will 100% enjoy the way you are and much rather like the way you smell them stinking for some clone the an amazing Medrash in parshas vyaruh the posok Speaks about after Avrom gave Milah to all his servants and him self and he piled up all the but pieces (Orleh) You just could imagen how pick the pile was and how the rew pcs smelled and hashem told Avrom There is no better smell on earth then this whole pile and im sure he knew how clone smelled the same thing is regarding the showers you have live more spritul hashem likes that
6
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:21 AM Milhouse Says:
“ The heter to shower is based on Tosfos in Berachos that a mefunik can bathe during shivah. Many contemporary poskim, including R' Shlomo Zalman ZT"L, stated that Americans are mefunakim and may bathe to take off that uncomfortable feeling, as would a mefunik. However, this only applies to taking away that feeling and not to enjoying the bathing. Therefore, one should only shower with water temperature that is not totally uncomfortable but does give a person pleasure.
"The old Nine Days custom no longer applies because it was based on a mourning custom that is no longer observed."
From this statement it sounds like showering with hot water and going swimming is allowed. I do not know if the person who translated this did not comprehend the psak or if this is the psak. Sounds like a big chiddish. Please clarify. ”
What's hard to understand? Whatever you can do during shloshim you can do during the 9 days.
7
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:19 AM Milhouse Says:
“ In Shulchan Aruch it is only permitted to bathe "LEHAVIR ES HAZEIAH" (to remove sweat). Clearly this can be done either with a cold shower, or if one is a MEFUNIC, a very quick warmer shower. To just permit bathing because such is the MINHAG is clearly against halacha. There is a heter if one is sweaty, but certainly the halacha still applies. A custom is not MINAG. It would otherwise be permitted to steal from others, because some certainly have such a MINHAG. ”
Tipesh. The whole "issur" on bathing in the first place is only a minhag. If the minhag changes then it changes.
8
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:17 AM Anonymous Says:
What a shame you didn't post this yesterday, I missed my shower from last night. Thank you VIN News for this important update.
9
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:15 AM Anonymous Says:
There are various attributions including in masechta Berachott (16b) that Rav Gamliel bathed the first night after his wife was niftar. When he was challenged to explain how he could bathe during Shivah, he said that he was a highly sensitive ( "istenis") and as such, he could bathe during shivah.
In modern times, given contemporary personal hygienic standards, and especially in places with a warm climate (such as the summer months in the US and EY) and also expectations of personal hygiene in the workplace where people work in close proximity with goyim, many poskim hold that we all under this category of istenis since bathing is not a form of physical enjoyment, but rather a hygienic necessity. It therefore is held that we may -shower during the nine days. For example, this is the view of Rav Elyashiv and Rav Sheinberg although all the rabboni have generally agreed that one should limit the frequency and duration of showering to that which he/she requires based on need and circumstances.
10
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:31 AM Overnight Kigel Says:
“ Tipesh. The whole "issur" on bathing in the first place is only a minhag. If the minhag changes then it changes.
”
Read the shulchan aruch (often would help) and you will notice many times that both the mechaber and the ramah often use language that the "minhag is so and so" and it is their "minhag" of recording halacha this way. Also the mishneh brura and other poskim use similar forms of expression.
11
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:25 AM Chassideshe Says:
I was taught the opinion expressed by Getzel #3 above: a quick, not-cold shower to clean oneself.
Additionally, I was taught to clean only those body places that need cleaning.
12
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:32 AM Rabbi B. Says:
JB Z'L is wrong, the custom IS not to shower during the Sheloshim, only with cold water!. In addition an halacha in shulchan aruch is not debatable, and so it is not flexible
13
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:32 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What a shame you didn't post this yesterday, I missed my shower from last night. Thank you VIN News for this important update. ”
Having sat next to you yesterday on the subway, I would echo your comment regarding why VIN didn't post this sooner.
14
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:40 AM Anonymous Says:
The people arrested in Brooklyn and New Jersey were obviously not worried about doing laundry during the nine days. I hope they showered before going to jail.
15
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:40 AM Bruce Says:
כל המתאבל על ירושלים, זוכה ורואה בשמחתה.
16
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:39 AM to Milhouse Says:
When teaching about the nine days we do not use words like "tipesh." That's what caused the whole nine days in the first place!
17
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:46 AM Anonymous Says:
There were no showers at the time of the shulchan aruch. So what is this discussion of showers or baths being ruled on by the s"a?
Also, lest anyone think otherwise, sweat is a big problem during the summer. I was just in a boro park grocery store, and believe me, people there need a shower to remove sweat. Yuk!
18
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:46 AM Reb Oosher Says:
“ Tipesh. The whole "issur" on bathing in the first place is only a minhag. If the minhag changes then it changes.
”
The strength of Yiddishkeit is that we hold on to our minhagim and not blow with the wind like the reform and conservitive jews. Don't be so quick to give up on our heiliger customs.
19
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Having sat next to you yesterday on the subway, I would echo your comment regarding why VIN didn't post this sooner. ”
That wasn't me on the train last night; it was Millhouse on the way back home from the Catskills. He was on the phone with his posek trying to convince HER that the bathing restrictions were only a minhag from where his zaide came from in Gaclitzia and thus he should be allowed to update the minhag for his new neighbors in Brooklyn Heights.
20
Jul 23, 2009 at 09:52 AM hojo Says:
“ There are various attributions including in masechta Berachott (16b) that Rav Gamliel bathed the first night after his wife was niftar. When he was challenged to explain how he could bathe during Shivah, he said that he was a highly sensitive ( "istenis") and as such, he could bathe during shivah.
In modern times, given contemporary personal hygienic standards, and especially in places with a warm climate (such as the summer months in the US and EY) and also expectations of personal hygiene in the workplace where people work in close proximity with goyim, many poskim hold that we all under this category of istenis since bathing is not a form of physical enjoyment, but rather a hygienic necessity. It therefore is held that we may -shower during the nine days. For example, this is the view of Rav Elyashiv and Rav Sheinberg although all the rabboni have generally agreed that one should limit the frequency and duration of showering to that which he/she requires based on need and circumstances. ”
not just goyim. jews don't want to smell you either. take a bath already. and use soap.
21
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:05 AM Anonymous Says:
I heard u are aloud to take ashower in lukewarm water and use soap for places that need cleaning.
22
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:17 AM Sepahrdie Tahor!!! Says:
Please note that sephardim are also jewish and we only follow shevuah shel chol bo. We are allowed this week to shower, do laundry even eat chicken according to certain meditarranean countries. Morrocans eat meat only on rosh chodesh and not the rest of the 8 days. We are allowed to break the fast on meat. If you look up the halachot of the BEN ISH CHAI, you'll see it says that they use to schect chickens in the afternoon of tisha be'av in order to eat it for supper. There is one thing though, sephardim do say selichot the whole month of Elul. What a ZECHUT WE HAVE!!!! Yishtabach Shemo!
23
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:17 AM Anonymous Says:
Some people wait till Yom Tom to wash their clothes and shower. VIN should have posted this a lot sooner so that the rest of us would not have to suffer all year round.
24
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:25 AM Aryeh Says:
This is exactly opposite to the customs of sheloshim, in that we keep progressively more intense mourning from the three weeks (30 days by some minhagim), to the nine days, to tisha b'av. What do we learn from this?
25
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:53 AM Anonymous Says:
i think that you could wait with showers and just be closer to Hashem in ukraine cumunist time how ppl was fiting about eidish kide they will die for it.and here in america people just take torah and make new madarn torah.you cant just make your one cheter to take shower.we want that moshiyach should come but he is not coming cuz we dont keep everything what Hashem ask on Har Sinay.this is time to be close to our Father who always with us when we cry when we happy when we joyful.Just chop this moment and do it.
26
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:
Whoever keeps mourning properly will have more zechusim. I didn't shower during my shiva for either of my parents, and during the 9 days I only wash where necessary. What's so terrible about that? I don't stink.
27
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“ JB Z'L is wrong, the custom IS not to shower during the Sheloshim, only with cold water!. In addition an halacha in shulchan aruch is not debatable, and so it is not flexible ”
You're also wrong - Washing the entire body even in cold water is forbidden during shloshim. Washing face, hands & feet is only permissivle in cold water.We ARE noheg this.
If one becomes dirty with mud or excrement or if he is an istanis he is permitted to bathe in the usual manner.
28
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:23 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The strength of Yiddishkeit is that we hold on to our minhagim and not blow with the wind like the reform and conservitive jews. Don't be so quick to give up on our heiliger customs. ”
"Don't be so quick to give up on our heiliger customs"
Not showering and being smelly during the summer is NOT a "heiliger" minhag as you suggest nor is any rav paskining so among the "heiliger rabbonim". If you read through all the posts, its unclear if this minhag, chumrah, takana, or whatever you call it really ever had a firm basis in halacha but in any case, it truly has been overtaken by changes in society. If you want to observe it, fine but don't make the rest of us feel guilty tonight when we go home and shower.
29
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:18 AM clean Says:
If you smell you must take a shower withsoap and shampo dont be a frumer on yenems cheshbon
30
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:17 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The strength of Yiddishkeit is that we hold on to our minhagim and not blow with the wind like the reform and conservitive jews. Don't be so quick to give up on our heiliger customs. ”
There are numerious examples how the times you live in effects Halacha and minhagim.
In the time of the Shulchan Orach, most of the population did not shower every day so it is no kuntz not showering during the 9 days.
In the Alter Haim, they drank water WITHOUT a filter. Are we frummer then them where we require water filters? Indian Hair Shaitels were never an issue, nor was any other "frum" misshagaus!! So as you can see, just because something was done in the alter haim because of a minhag or other reasons, does not make is halacha even today.
31
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:11 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Whoever keeps mourning properly will have more zechusim. I didn't shower during my shiva for either of my parents, and during the 9 days I only wash where necessary. What's so terrible about that? I don't stink. ”
"What's so terrible about that? I don't stink.”--so said the Skunk!
Let others be the judge of how you smell.
32
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:35 AM RJ Says:
“ JB Z'L is wrong, the custom IS not to shower during the Sheloshim, only with cold water!. In addition an halacha in shulchan aruch is not debatable, and so it is not flexible ”
Rabbi B - Is that how you refer to one of the great gedolim of the previous generation? By his initials?
33
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:47 AM Anonymous Says:
Why would you post this? Those who follow R' Joseph Soloveitchik's psakim (including his many chumras) should follow this as well. As for everyone else, they should follow all the other Poskim who assume that this minhag still applies nowadays. Since I imagine that most people who read this site are not talmidim of the Rov, why would you confuse people by posting this kula?
34
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You're also wrong - Washing the entire body even in cold water is forbidden during shloshim. Washing face, hands & feet is only permissivle in cold water.We ARE noheg this.
If one becomes dirty with mud or excrement or if he is an istanis he is permitted to bathe in the usual manner. ”
In our culture we are ALL an istinis. Our usual behavior is to be meticulous with cleanliness. So without a change to minhag or din, we are allowed to clean/shower during the nie days.
35
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:48 AM shtetl yid Says:
it is prohibited to enter the mikvah without taking a shower.
36
Jul 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM tzoorba Says:
If one was totally drenched with sweat due to hot and humid conditions or due to exertion, it would seem obvious that this is equivalent to being dirty and a lukewarm shower to remove the sweat would be permissible according to all opinions.
37
Jul 23, 2009 at 12:24 PM power up Says:
Does anybody know if its muter to swim purely for excersize and health purposes?? Indoor pool, not cooling off from the sun etc.
38
Jul 23, 2009 at 12:35 PM Anonymous Says:
“ it is prohibited to enter the mikvah without taking a shower. ”
who says? For women, but for men???
39
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:03 PM The Truth Says:
“ who says? For women, but for men??? ”
says the sign at the door - and dont forget to pay as well.
40
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What's hard to understand? Whatever you can do during shloshim you can do during the 9 days. ”
Well then you should be able to eat meat ,and go to a pool ,in shloshim you can do them both ,so its not so simple
41
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Does anybody know if its muter to swim purely for excersize and health purposes?? Indoor pool, not cooling off from the sun etc. ”
You really don't have any other means of excersizing?
Would you exercize during a personal mourning period too?
42
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:27 PM Chaim Yankle Says:
“ Why would you post this? Those who follow R' Joseph Soloveitchik's psakim (including his many chumras) should follow this as well. As for everyone else, they should follow all the other Poskim who assume that this minhag still applies nowadays. Since I imagine that most people who read this site are not talmidim of the Rov, why would you confuse people by posting this kula? ”
The way this is presented it is clear that this is a chiddush of the Rav's father, Rav Moshe. It provides another means of being melamed zchus for members of klal yisrael who despite the ruling of the mechaber still bathe during the 9 days. What is so, confusing about this? I think most people who are concerned about halacha will not base their behavior on a snippet from VIN - they will investigate for themselves or ask their own Rav for psak. Furthermore if one take's Rav Moshe's reasoning at face value, then this is no more a "kula" than not turning over our mattresses and not covering our faces during aveilus (which is obviously no longer practiced).
I also might add, that l'tzorech mitzvah according to the Rema (OC 551:16) its muttar to wash oneself. In most western countries not smelling like a behaima (except for maybe France) is in inyan in kavod habriyos, therefore moderate bathing would seem to be permissible today even according to the Rema.
43
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:20 PM Askupeh Says:
“ Please note that sephardim are also jewish and we only follow shevuah shel chol bo. We are allowed this week to shower, do laundry even eat chicken according to certain meditarranean countries. Morrocans eat meat only on rosh chodesh and not the rest of the 8 days. We are allowed to break the fast on meat. If you look up the halachot of the BEN ISH CHAI, you'll see it says that they use to schect chickens in the afternoon of tisha be'av in order to eat it for supper. There is one thing though, sephardim do say selichot the whole month of Elul. What a ZECHUT WE HAVE!!!! Yishtabach Shemo! ”
Ilu Ve'ilu Divrei Elokim Chaim. The problem starts when people combine all the Kulehs.
44
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ That wasn't me on the train last night; it was Millhouse on the way back home from the Catskills. He was on the phone with his posek trying to convince HER that the bathing restrictions were only a minhag from where his zaide came from in Gaclitzia and thus he should be allowed to update the minhag for his new neighbors in Brooklyn Heights. ”
"thus he should be allowed to update the minhag for his new neighbors in Brooklyn Heights."
I thought Milhouse lives in Monsey?
45
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Does anybody know if its muter to swim purely for excersize and health purposes?? Indoor pool, not cooling off from the sun etc. ”
You really don't have any other means of excersizing?
Would you exercize during a personal mourning period too?
46
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:11 PM zach Says:
“ Please note that sephardim are also jewish and we only follow shevuah shel chol bo. We are allowed this week to shower, do laundry even eat chicken according to certain meditarranean countries. Morrocans eat meat only on rosh chodesh and not the rest of the 8 days. We are allowed to break the fast on meat. If you look up the halachot of the BEN ISH CHAI, you'll see it says that they use to schect chickens in the afternoon of tisha be'av in order to eat it for supper. There is one thing though, sephardim do say selichot the whole month of Elul. What a ZECHUT WE HAVE!!!! Yishtabach Shemo! ”
Yeah, I'm trying to find a rav that will convert me to sephard for this reason plus so that I can eat kitnios. But I want to convert back to ashkenaz before Elul starts. So far no luck...
47
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:09 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Rabbi B - Is that how you refer to one of the great gedolim of the previous generation? By his initials? ”
You are absolutely right, kovod hatorah and kovod habriyos is the recipe for the geulah.
48
Jul 23, 2009 at 01:55 PM moish Says:
There may be a heter, buts its bad enough we don't cry and mourn in the 9 days for the churban like we used to, nothing will happen if we have a bit of tzaar so at least in action if not in feeling we are not showing complete disregard for mourning for the beis hamikdash, dy hu beis elokeinu lhisabel olov at least in the nine days. Its sad enough that many if not most people nowadays look at all halochos as problems that we have to get around, rather then something that elates our soul, one be a novol brshus hatorah shower every day eat meat at a siyum everyday and listen to all the voice music on the market but he has missed the point. When he gets up there and asked why he didn't mourn on the churban he can't even say he at least did the actions of mourning. וכל המתאבל על ירושלים זוכה ורואה בשמחתה וכל שאינו...
On an halachic note it is quite shaky to be matir on the basis of removing sweat, for after one sits in air con for 10 min the sweat has disappeared, all thats left is possibly smell, we do not find a heter for this and besides one can always spray deoderant. I am proud to say that I keep the halocho kpshuto without chochmos and do not shower until after tisha b'av, including erev shabbos where the MB is only matir face hands and feet with cold water.
49
Jul 23, 2009 at 02:20 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The way this is presented it is clear that this is a chiddush of the Rav's father, Rav Moshe. It provides another means of being melamed zchus for members of klal yisrael who despite the ruling of the mechaber still bathe during the 9 days. What is so, confusing about this? I think most people who are concerned about halacha will not base their behavior on a snippet from VIN - they will investigate for themselves or ask their own Rav for psak. Furthermore if one take's Rav Moshe's reasoning at face value, then this is no more a "kula" than not turning over our mattresses and not covering our faces during aveilus (which is obviously no longer practiced).
I also might add, that l'tzorech mitzvah according to the Rema (OC 551:16) its muttar to wash oneself. In most western countries not smelling like a behaima (except for maybe France) is in inyan in kavod habriyos, therefore moderate bathing would seem to be permissible today even according to the Rema. ”
Chaim Yankle,
When I said this was a kula I didn't mean that from the perspective of R' Moshe it's a kula, obviously he thought this was m'ikar hadin. I refer to it as a kula when you look at the larger spectrum of Poskim. Being that he was the only one who was lenient like this, that makes it a kula. I have no problem with VIN posting this psak but it should have been done in the context of mentioning that all other Poskim disagree and that each person should consult with their regular Posek. I don't see either of those things mentioned in the article. It doesn't even mention anywhere that this is a chiddush of R' Moshe. It just says matter-of-factly that this is how he understood the Halacha. By the way, I learn in YU so there are no politics involved in my disapproval here, I just don't think this was an appropriate article.
50
Jul 23, 2009 at 02:34 PM HonestWorker Says:
I shower during the Nine days, as I work among the real workers,i.e. office workers.
51
Jul 23, 2009 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:
the issue should be are we feeling any mourning during the nine days or is it business as usual
52
Jul 23, 2009 at 03:26 PM Anonymous Says:
“ There may be a heter, buts its bad enough we don't cry and mourn in the 9 days for the churban like we used to, nothing will happen if we have a bit of tzaar so at least in action if not in feeling we are not showing complete disregard for mourning for the beis hamikdash, dy hu beis elokeinu lhisabel olov at least in the nine days. Its sad enough that many if not most people nowadays look at all halochos as problems that we have to get around, rather then something that elates our soul, one be a novol brshus hatorah shower every day eat meat at a siyum everyday and listen to all the voice music on the market but he has missed the point. When he gets up there and asked why he didn't mourn on the churban he can't even say he at least did the actions of mourning. וכל המתאבל על ירושלים זוכה ורואה בשמחתה וכל שאינו...
On an halachic note it is quite shaky to be matir on the basis of removing sweat, for after one sits in air con for 10 min the sweat has disappeared, all thats left is possibly smell, we do not find a heter for this and besides one can always spray deoderant. I am proud to say that I keep the halocho kpshuto without chochmos and do not shower until after tisha b'av, including erev shabbos where the MB is only matir face hands and feet with cold water.
”
To Moish, I don't want to be indiscreet, but if you don't shower for the entire nine days, without chochmos, do you fulfil marital obligations during the nine days??
53
Jul 23, 2009 at 02:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ its usser to bath in the 9 days period only if someone is dirty or has a medical need ”
If you don't bathe in the 9 days, believe me, you will be dirty and chalilah in medical need and a sakanah to those around you
54
Jul 23, 2009 at 05:10 PM moish Says:
“ To Moish, I don't want to be indiscreet, but if you don't shower for the entire nine days, without chochmos, do you fulfil marital obligations during the nine days?? ”
I WILL be discreet, but I will just make a few points, 1. ask the same from the many doros before us that kept this halocho without chochmos. 2. if you are mekayem the halocho without chochmos there is a special siyata dshmaya and one will not have a problem with smell etc. boduk umenuso (although I can only talk for myself). 3. if this is a tzaar, on this also kdai hu beis elokeinu....
55
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:22 PM Are you guys for real? Says:
Please, PLEASE tell me. Which body parts DON'T have to be cleaned?
Jews need to be clean. In more ways than one.
If you are so worried, that if you take a quick shower (like most people do everyday) during the nine days, that you will forget the churban and the extreme distance each individual Jew has with HaKodosh Baruch Hu, then maybe you shouldn't shower the whole year.
56
Jul 24, 2009 at 05:53 AM Anonymous Says:
The aroma was so bad in one store that an employee had an asthma attack and went home sick! If you are so farfrumpt, stay home, at least!
57
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:06 PM Shirat Rosh Says:
“ Does anybody know if its muter to swim purely for excersize and health purposes?? Indoor pool, not cooling off from the sun etc. ”
The minhag not to go swiming during the 9 days applies to boating as well ... it is becuase of "sakuna" (danger) during these inauspicious times.
58
Jul 24, 2009 at 09:37 AM Asher Buchwalter Says:
“ The people arrested in Brooklyn and New Jersey were obviously not worried about doing laundry during the nine days. I hope they showered before going to jail. ”
very well said and my compliment for a brief and succint remark
59
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:57 PM Anonymous Says:
Isn't it possible to be mechalek between hilchos tisha b'av and hilchos aveilus. By aveilus, we pasken k'divrei ha'meikel. In hilchos tisha b'av we do not
60
Jul 25, 2009 at 01:41 PM ruchel Says:
“ Why are you people making such a fuss from not showering in for nine days nothing is going to happen if you wont shower one whole month Hashem Will 100% enjoy the way you are and much rather like the way you smell them stinking for some clone the an amazing Medrash in parshas vyaruh the posok Speaks about after Avrom gave Milah to all his servants and him self and he piled up all the but pieces (Orleh) You just could imagen how pick the pile was and how the rew pcs smelled and hashem told Avrom There is no better smell on earth then this whole pile and im sure he knew how clone smelled the same thing is regarding the showers you have live more spritul hashem likes that ”
Hashem not minding the smell and human beings not mindning the smell are totally different concepts. To be offensive and have an odor is to reflect poorly on the Jewish people. How can you pray to Hashem smelling terrible? That is a disrespect to the entire concept of our religion-to be pure spiritually and physically. Open your eyes and mind
61
Jul 26, 2009 at 10:03 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Hashem not minding the smell and human beings not mindning the smell are totally different concepts. To be offensive and have an odor is to reflect poorly on the Jewish people. How can you pray to Hashem smelling terrible? That is a disrespect to the entire concept of our religion-to be pure spiritually and physically. Open your eyes and mind ”
"Open your eyes and mind"
Open your shower tap, and get rid of the offensive odors. Religious Jews who circulate among non Jews, smelling offensively, cause chilul Hashem, this applies not only in the nine days, but all year round too.
62
Jul 26, 2009 at 05:48 PM Reb Eli Says:
“ In Shulchan Aruch it is only permitted to bathe "LEHAVIR ES HAZEIAH" (to remove sweat). Clearly this can be done either with a cold shower, or if one is a MEFUNIC, a very quick warmer shower. To just permit bathing because such is the MINHAG is clearly against halacha. There is a heter if one is sweaty, but certainly the halacha still applies. A custom is not MINAG. It would otherwise be permitted to steal from others, because some certainly have such a MINHAG. ”
You my friend, are a moron. A minhag IS a custom. And even if one was to say that it is straight-up halacha, it can be argued that much halacha adapts to current times. So kal vchomer, if this is a minhag, we can surely say that it should adapt to the times, especially when we know the reasons and guidlines that have founded that minhag in the first place. Please don't make blanket statements if you have no idea what you are talking about. It is irresponsible. Thanks.