RSS Feed
Brooklyn, NY - Man Arrested For Organ Trafficking Reportedly Pulled Gun On Hesitant "Donors" |
|
| |
Text Size
|
Photo Credit: (Mitsu Yasukawa - The Star-Ledger)
Levy-Izhak Rosenbaum's name, address and even phone number were passed to an FBI agent in a meeting at the Roosevelt Hotel in Manhattan by a prominent anthropologist who has been studying and documenting organ trafficking for more than a decade.
Nancy Scheper-Hughes of the University of California, Berkeley, was and is very clear as to Rosenbaum's role in the ring.
"He is the main U.S. broker for an international trafficking network," she said.
Her sources include a man who started working with Rosenbaum imagining he was helping people in desperate need. The man then began to see the donors, or to be more accurate, sellers, who were flown in from impoverished countries such as Moldova.
"He said it was awful. These people would be brought in and they didn't even know what they were supposed to be doing and they would want to go home and they would cry," Scheper-Hughes said.
The man called Rosenbaum "a thug" who would pull out a pistol he was apparently licensed to carry and tell the sellers, "You're here. A deal is a deal. Now, you'll give us a kidney or you'll never go home.' "
Scheper-Hughes felt she had to stop Rosenbaum. She met with the FBI.
"I always thought of it as my Dick Tracy moment," she said Thursday.
She waited and waited for something to be done. The FBI may have been following the lead of the State Department, which dismissed organ trafficking as "urban legend."
"It would be impossible to conceal a clandestine organ trafficking ring," a 2004 State Department report stated.
Scheper-Hughes had better luck in Brazil and in South Africa, where law enforcement corroborated her findings and acted decisively.
But the ring kept operating elsewhere. Scheper-Hughes visited villages in Moldova where, "20% of the men were siphoned off to be kidney sellers in this same scheme."
Back in Brooklyn, Rosenbaum stayed busy. He was contacted by an FBI informant who introduced Rosenbaum to an undercover agent who supposedly wanted to buy a kidney for her uncle.
"I'm doing this a long time," Rosenbaum was recorded saying.
The undercover asked how many organs he had sold.
"Quite a lot," he answered.
On Wednesday, the FBI called Scheper-Hughes, who is putting her findings into the upcoming, "A World Cut in Two, The Global Traffic in Humans for Organs."
"Why are you calling me now?" she asked.
Thursday, seven years after her Dick Tracy moment with the FBI at the Roosevelt Hotel, Rosenbaum was finally arrested.
Note: The individual is accused of a crime, and is not guilty until proven otherwise by a court of law
More of today's headlines
“Berlin, Germany - The American Jewish Committee in Berlin filed a complaint Friday asking prosecutors to investigate Amazon.de to see if it has broken German laws...”
Berlin, Germany - Complaint Filed Against Amazon for Selling Holocaust-Denial Books
Delray Beach, FL - Sculpture at Fla. Shopping Plaza Turns Heads
Total150
Read Comments (150) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:19 AM Anonymous Says:
This is what happens when we look away from our own heimishe misdeeds. I happen to be meeting with non-Jews in middletown today. I'm ashamed and afraid this stuff will come up. Kol yisroel areivim ze Loze goes both ways. I think there should be a massive rally denouncing these rotten apples these eriev rav among us. Let the world know we don't stand with them and that we are as outraged at these wolves among us that bring every tzorah to us all for money.
2
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:30 AM AuthenticSatmar Says:
And why are you ashamed and embarrarsed? If your life is a perfect example of yiddishkeit then its obvious that these 'Rabbis' don't represent you and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
However, you probably shake womens hands in business, you try to blend in with your dress, and socialize with them. In that case, don't worry about the 'Rabbis', worry about yourself.
3
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:35 AM Anonymous Says:
“ This is what happens when we look away from our own heimishe misdeeds. I happen to be meeting with non-Jews in middletown today. I'm ashamed and afraid this stuff will come up. Kol yisroel areivim ze Loze goes both ways. I think there should be a massive rally denouncing these rotten apples these eriev rav among us. Let the world know we don't stand with them and that we are as outraged at these wolves among us that bring every tzorah to us all for money. ”
Don't forget the mitzva of pidyin shviem goes on according to haloche (again our holy reshonim and achronim understood better then us) even the guy is proven guilty, yes its a big mitzva for you to go now and give a large donation - the larger the more mitzva- for this rosenbam
4
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:35 AM Anonymous Says:
This news story is not credible.
5
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:33 AM Anonymous Says:
If the people in Middletown ask "you" about something a fellow jew was allegedly doing, you should ask "him" about the non-jewish drug dealers arrested this week in Newark, and the non jewish murderers arrested in Florida.
Stop with the complex of thinking you have to be responsible for every accusation on any jew around the world.
6
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:28 AM One Who Knows Says:
Anyone with a bit of common sense will take this story with a big chunk of salt. This anthropologist has a book to sell, so she’s obviously ratcheting up the scandal factor. How claim that a potential donor was "convinced" to give up his kidney at gunpoint is ludicrous. Anyone who knows anything about the labyrinthine procedures involved in organ transplantation will laugh at this unlikely scenario.
7
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:26 AM Anonymous Says:
dont beleive everything u hear
8
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:26 AM Anonymous Says:
It is actually a Mitzvah to save people's lives with these organ transplants.
9
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:25 AM Anonymous Says:
It comes from jealusey, the fact is he helped the "donor" and he helped the "receiver", who cares if he helped himself as well?
10
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:24 AM a yid Says:
Hevy dan es kol hodom lkaf zechus!
11
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:
“ It is actually a Mitzvah to save people's lives with these organ transplants. ”
No, it is a sin of the worst kind, it's actually a kind of rape, forcing someone to give up something pesonal they don't want to.
12
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:
My question is only applicable if the person is guilty.
Please someone explain to me how pidyon shvuyim applies here. Assuming this Rosenbaum is guilty, why does anyone have to give him money. If he is guilty he will do time and it will be a start for his kapporoh. This crime is the terrible, he has caused a massive chillul HASHEM. T'shuva, Yom Kippur and death are not enough to be mechaper for chillul HASHEM. So why how does pidyon shvuyim apply? The more he suffers in this world the better it will be for him in Olam Haba.
I am not asking about any of the other people who were entrapped by the FBI wiuth the help of the moser>
13
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:47 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Anyone with a bit of common sense will take this story with a big chunk of salt. This anthropologist has a book to sell, so she’s obviously ratcheting up the scandal factor. How claim that a potential donor was "convinced" to give up his kidney at gunpoint is ludicrous. Anyone who knows anything about the labyrinthine procedures involved in organ transplantation will laugh at this unlikely scenario. ”
Fact is if this is trure this guy belongs in jail because pulling a gun on anyone in a buisness deal is uh not the way to do business- thats why hes coming offthe bus in handcuffs- The one who knows? what's a big chunk of salt?
14
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:45 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Don't forget the mitzva of pidyin shviem goes on according to haloche (again our holy reshonim and achronim understood better then us) even the guy is proven guilty, yes its a big mitzva for you to go now and give a large donation - the larger the more mitzva- for this rosenbam ”
You clearly don't know the first thing about Pidyon Shviem....
15
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:53 AM Manny Says:
“ This is what happens when we look away from our own heimishe misdeeds. I happen to be meeting with non-Jews in middletown today. I'm ashamed and afraid this stuff will come up. Kol yisroel areivim ze Loze goes both ways. I think there should be a massive rally denouncing these rotten apples these eriev rav among us. Let the world know we don't stand with them and that we are as outraged at these wolves among us that bring every tzorah to us all for money. ”
You are so right, I manage a major lumber yard and almost every non jewish customer had something to say or ask about these arrests, boy I'll tell you I was red in the face.
Chevre time to shape up.
Gut Shabbos
16
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:52 AM A Montrealer Says:
The TOSHER REBBE SHLITA said once to a fry yid who helped THE REBBE with a certain issue.The fry yid asked "why was the REBBE interested in me, I am not frum." The REBBE responded,"THERE ARE JEWS WITHOUT BEARDS AND THERE ARE BEARDS WITHOUT JEWS"
17
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:00 PM eitza tova Says:
sell all of soloman drecks organs for pidyon shvuyim
18
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:55 AM Anonymous Says:
Why do people like this even bother wearing a yarmulkeh or eating kosher?
19
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:50 AM esther Says:
“ And why are you ashamed and embarrarsed? If your life is a perfect example of yiddishkeit then its obvious that these 'Rabbis' don't represent you and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
However, you probably shake womens hands in business, you try to blend in with your dress, and socialize with them. In that case, don't worry about the 'Rabbis', worry about yourself. ”
what kind of reply is this?1st you tell #1 to ignore the entire issue of chillul Hashem.i see so many people on this sight who seem to be oblivious to what a huge avairah it is .maybe if you live in bp or willie you just don't get that reality.2nd you personally attack the poster-sir it is you who needs to worry about himself.
20
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:46 AM count of monte cristo Says:
“ And why are you ashamed and embarrarsed? If your life is a perfect example of yiddishkeit then its obvious that these 'Rabbis' don't represent you and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
However, you probably shake womens hands in business, you try to blend in with your dress, and socialize with them. In that case, don't worry about the 'Rabbis', worry about yourself. ”
People like you are dangerous. All you care about are the things you can see like dress codes, which schools children go to, where you daven, etc. Are you so careful about what goes on where no one can see you? Are you assuming that a businessman would shake someone's hand because he doesn't wear what you do? If we would be that callous in our judgements, and base our impressions on what someone wears, we might assume an Authentic Satmar is money laundering, bribing, or organ trafficing. Be careful with narrow minded judgements; they're never amusing when you are the one subject to judgement.
21
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:
“ And why are you ashamed and embarrarsed? If your life is a perfect example of yiddishkeit then its obvious that these 'Rabbis' don't represent you and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
However, you probably shake womens hands in business, you try to blend in with your dress, and socialize with them. In that case, don't worry about the 'Rabbis', worry about yourself. ”
why are you making assumptions on another jew. Shame on you. are you perfect?Every avairah that another jew does should affect you. you should be embarrased and make sure that your not making a chillul hashem instead of slandering others that you have no idea about!!!!!!!
22
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:43 AM P.A.W. Miami Says:
“ Don't forget the mitzva of pidyin shviem goes on according to haloche (again our holy reshonim and achronim understood better then us) even the guy is proven guilty, yes its a big mitzva for you to go now and give a large donation - the larger the more mitzva- for this rosenbam ”
let him rot in jail where he belongs a thug is a thug all Jewish crooks should be taken out of society
23
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:43 AM MAYER FREUND Says:
“ This is what happens when we look away from our own heimishe misdeeds. I happen to be meeting with non-Jews in middletown today. I'm ashamed and afraid this stuff will come up. Kol yisroel areivim ze Loze goes both ways. I think there should be a massive rally denouncing these rotten apples these eriev rav among us. Let the world know we don't stand with them and that we are as outraged at these wolves among us that bring every tzorah to us all for money. ”
Sorry to let you know but the way you write about another jew's violation you sound like you are one them and you do the same. Remember the mishne "he'vay don es kol ho'odom lekaf zechus" and the mishne "al tudin es chaveirchu ad she'tagia limkomo".
24
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:36 AM ???? Says:
I heard that this money was for charity funds and not personal, can anyone confirm that?.
25
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:18 AM Faivel Says:
See -you can make a good living without going to college
26
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:07 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Don't forget the mitzva of pidyin shviem goes on according to haloche (again our holy reshonim and achronim understood better then us) even the guy is proven guilty, yes its a big mitzva for you to go now and give a large donation - the larger the more mitzva- for this rosenbam ”
This man is not a shovui,he is a RODEF! Don't you know of Pollard, Shalit and thousands of other prisoners who halachically warrant the assistance of our Pidyon Shvuim.
27
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:08 PM Weeping Willow Says:
We Have Sinned.
Tshuvah Tefillah Tzedakah.
28
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ My question is only applicable if the person is guilty.
Please someone explain to me how pidyon shvuyim applies here. Assuming this Rosenbaum is guilty, why does anyone have to give him money. If he is guilty he will do time and it will be a start for his kapporoh. This crime is the terrible, he has caused a massive chillul HASHEM. T'shuva, Yom Kippur and death are not enough to be mechaper for chillul HASHEM. So why how does pidyon shvuyim apply? The more he suffers in this world the better it will be for him in Olam Haba.
I am not asking about any of the other people who were entrapped by the FBI wiuth the help of the moser> ”
did i hear you correctly- by him suffering is gonna help him- you know this beacause..............? who made u a judge and jury? who made you god? now i dont know if pidyon shvuyim applies im not a rabbi- but who are u to say whats a proper kaporah? Thats the problem with this whole thing nobody gets it- the lesson learned here is to check your own books in your own life- is eveyhing in line? am I doing the right thing? evryones gotta look at themslevs and work on themselves- all these people didnt care about themsleves and didnt think whats gonna happen to them- worry about yourslf-
29
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:06 PM Anonymous Says:
If G-d forbid life of your beloved ones would depend on a kidney transplant, who wouldn’t pay $160k to save the life?
30
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ No, it is a sin of the worst kind, it's actually a kind of rape, forcing someone to give up something pesonal they don't want to. ”
Who said he used force? Once the person made up to donate, it is too late.
31
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:05 PM Rochel Says:
“ And why are you ashamed and embarrarsed? If your life is a perfect example of yiddishkeit then its obvious that these 'Rabbis' don't represent you and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
However, you probably shake womens hands in business, you try to blend in with your dress, and socialize with them. In that case, don't worry about the 'Rabbis', worry about yourself. ”
I'd say i am also ashamed and embarassed because one is responsible for another in klal Yisroel, When the world hears about this, it's the whole jewish people judged like criminals :(
32
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:03 PM Wise MD Says:
I am always in complete amazement at some of the most outrageous and ignorant comments I read on this board from those who defend these vile criminals. It usually comes from those of you who can't spell an English word to save your life. The message that you ignorant people are sending is the following:
1. It is ok to be a child molester, a killer and thug, a thief and a crook but you must NEVER be a Moser. That is the worst Aveirah in the torah. Well, I have news for you. You have it all wrong. I would turn in these crooks in a second.
2. The biggest Mitzvah in the world is not learning torah, is not doing Chasodim or Davening or helping Almonos or Yesomim but rather Pidum Shvyim of the worst types of criminals. Is this what Yiddishkeit and our Torah teaches us. Where did you people come from???
34
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:02 PM stormin Says:
During these 9 days > SIYUG LCHOCMA SHTIKA
35
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:10 PM joe Says:
“ And why are you ashamed and embarrarsed? If your life is a perfect example of yiddishkeit then its obvious that these 'Rabbis' don't represent you and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
However, you probably shake womens hands in business, you try to blend in with your dress, and socialize with them. In that case, don't worry about the 'Rabbis', worry about yourself. ”
i wonder what the Almighty would rather have, a person that dresses up like a Polish nobleman or a person that behaves like a mentsch. If you cannot act like a mentsch what good is you costume and observing the chumrah of the day.
36
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:10 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
Not withstanding the criminality of the current case, I wonder why a woman can abort her fetus claiming that she has the right to control her own body, but a fellow can't sell one of his kidneys using the same principle. The sale of organs is illegal for no good reason. The illegality of it is one of the reasons that there is a shortage of transplantable organs. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to sell his kidney, for instance, or bequeath is heart, lungs, liver, etc. to his heirs for sale? Yes, I know that, practically speaking, there are some major halachic concerns for Jews, both donating and receiving, but why should it not be allowed in principle?
37
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:
Mr. Rosenbaum saved countless lives during all these years. People with dead kidneys on a 5 year waiting list with a year left to live. The donors were people without a penny and with no work who decided to make enough money to live on for 3 years. They cried because life had gotten them into such a state but they knew what they were doing. There is no question that all this was illegal; Rosenbaum knew it and said so himself many times. But Mr. Rosenbaum is not a macabre monster who preyed on poor people. And he didn't corrupt normal government operations. He doesn't deserve to be pilloried for saving lives and helping people. He didn't make the huge profits that all these articles allege. Most of the money went for paying the doctord and hospitals and hotels for the family etc. Sure he made a profit too. But stop making him look like a monster. You wouldn't talk like that if it were your father who received one of his kidneys.
38
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:18 AM Anonymous Says:
Hope they cut out his kidneys, see how he feels about it!
39
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:18 AM Berish Says:
I don't believe everything I read
40
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:17 AM Anonymous Says:
This guy is a piece of dirt who should rot in a jail cell for the rest of his life.
41
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:16 AM Tevye Says:
Crazy
42
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:14 AM Anonymous Says:
Yemach Shem'o of the animal who makes massive profits of others people's great pain and suffering. that's all I have to say.
43
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:12 AM power up Says:
if the findings are indeed true, it hurts to say, but he deserves his time
44
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:23 PM The Truth Says:
“ I am always in complete amazement at some of the most outrageous and ignorant comments I read on this board from those who defend these vile criminals. It usually comes from those of you who can't spell an English word to save your life. The message that you ignorant people are sending is the following:
1. It is ok to be a child molester, a killer and thug, a thief and a crook but you must NEVER be a Moser. That is the worst Aveirah in the torah. Well, I have news for you. You have it all wrong. I would turn in these crooks in a second.
2. The biggest Mitzvah in the world is not learning torah, is not doing Chasodim or Davening or helping Almonos or Yesomim but rather Pidum Shvyim of the worst types of criminals. Is this what Yiddishkeit and our Torah teaches us. Where did you people come from??? ”
Sad but true.
Welcome to America.
45
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:22 PM Charity? Says:
“ I heard that this money was for charity funds and not personal, can anyone confirm that?. ”
It was for his mosed - MBPF - My Back Pocket Fund.
46
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:21 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Who said he used force? Once the person made up to donate, it is too late. ”
too late? meaning im gonna put a gun to your face and kill you unless you change your mind, i think i read that this same shylah was brought to The Corleone Rebbe and that he poskind its fine, as long as you have the right kovonah and you truly made him an offer he couldnt refuse
47
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:20 PM FedMan Says:
I wish these so called "Rabbis" would stop using that title unless they have a full time shetelar position. A chillul hashem is a chillul hashem.
48
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:16 PM Anonymous Says:
#1) In response to the comment:
"This anthropologist has a book to sell, so she’s obviously ratcheting up the scandal factor. "
The article clearly states the anthropologist was tracked down by the journalist and so she asked "why are you contacting me now?" The anthropologist was not the one seeking PR for her book.
#2) To say "the claim that a potential donor was "convinced" to give up his kidney at gunpoint is ludicrous."
To call this the claim "ludicrous" reminds me what so many said when they were told about the Mengele experiments. As a Jew, I take such an accusation of violating another's basic human rights very seriously. At least deserving of a proper inquiry.
#3) "Anyone who knows anything about the labyrinthine procedures involved in organ transplantation will laugh at this ..."
Makes me wonder about you and what is YOUR involvement and knowledge of the whole matter? What makes you an expert? I am sure there are some FBI agent who would be interested to know. And remember, a ganev identifies with a ganev, a murderer with a murderer etc. So I really have some serious questions about you. Afterall, it's unlikely this one person as masterminding the entire operation from beginning to end himself.
Would be interesting to check gun license records and see if this Rosenbaum had a license to corroborate the story. To carry a gun in NYC, you MUST have a NYC license or you go to jail for 5 years -- case closed.
49
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:14 PM Anonymous Says:
According to the Torah you need 2 Eidim Kesheirim before you rule on someone, i think the activist women simply doesn't fall in that category
50
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It is actually a Mitzvah to save people's lives with these organ transplants. ”
You are sadly misguided.
51
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:33 PM Milhouse Says:
“ i wonder what the Almighty would rather have, a person that dresses up like a Polish nobleman or a person that behaves like a mentsch. If you cannot act like a mentsch what good is you costume and observing the chumrah of the day. ”
Chassidishe levush has nothing to do with Polish noblemen.
52
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:32 PM Milhouse Says:
“ I am always in complete amazement at some of the most outrageous and ignorant comments I read on this board from those who defend these vile criminals. It usually comes from those of you who can't spell an English word to save your life. The message that you ignorant people are sending is the following:
1. It is ok to be a child molester, a killer and thug, a thief and a crook but you must NEVER be a Moser. That is the worst Aveirah in the torah. Well, I have news for you. You have it all wrong. I would turn in these crooks in a second.
2. The biggest Mitzvah in the world is not learning torah, is not doing Chasodim or Davening or helping Almonos or Yesomim but rather Pidum Shvyim of the worst types of criminals. Is this what Yiddishkeit and our Torah teaches us. Where did you people come from??? ”
Yes, a mosser is worse than almost anybody. A mosser can be killed by anybody, without a beis din.
53
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:46 PM Anonymous Says:
This is what happens when we look away from our own heimishe misdeeds. I happen to be meeting with non-Jews in middletown today. I'm ashamed and afraid this stuff will come up. Kol yisroel areivim ze Loze goes both ways. I think there should be a massive rally denouncing these rotten apples these eriev rav among us. Let the world know we don't stand with them and that we are as outraged at these wolves among us that bring every tzorah to us all for money.
54
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:43 PM Torah Truth Says:
“ And why are you ashamed and embarrarsed? If your life is a perfect example of yiddishkeit then its obvious that these 'Rabbis' don't represent you and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
However, you probably shake womens hands in business, you try to blend in with your dress, and socialize with them. In that case, don't worry about the 'Rabbis', worry about yourself. ”
You are making an assumption that shaking women’s hands in business is Assur according to all… this is NOT the case. It is true that the Chazon Ish held it is Yeherog Vaal Yaavor but others disagree. I spoke to a number of Gedolai Yisrael (it is not my place to speak for them if they didn’t publicize their P’sak) who told me that if a women gives her hand to you should shake it because of Kavod HaBrios. You also assume that adopting to a dress code from the 18th century is somehow a proper way to dress as opposed to wearing respectable modern dress. Please don’t tell me the Mamer Chazal of Lo Shinai Malbusho, because if you really followed that you would be wearing a robe and a turban.
55
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:42 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The TOSHER REBBE SHLITA said once to a fry yid who helped THE REBBE with a certain issue.The fry yid asked "why was the REBBE interested in me, I am not frum." The REBBE responded,"THERE ARE JEWS WITHOUT BEARDS AND THERE ARE BEARDS WITHOUT JEWS" ”
If you believe this story, I've got a bridge to sell you.
57
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:46 PM Anonymous Says:
This is what happens when we look away from our own heimishe misdeeds. I happen to be meeting with non-Jews in middletown today. I'm ashamed and afraid this stuff will come up. Kol yisroel areivim ze Loze goes both ways. I think there should be a massive rally denouncing these rotten apples these eriev rav among us. Let the world know we don't stand with them and that we are as outraged at these wolves among us that bring every tzorah to us all for money.
58
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:38 PM HELLO!!! Says:
Hello people!! Its ILLEGAL!! Who cares if he is helping others and saving himself while getting a sick profit. It is illegal!!!! The Torah says you cant do an aviera in order to do a mitzvah. You can NOT steal in order to give to the poor!! I dont know if the accusations are true on any of the people who got arrested but if it is, then dont do the crime if you cant do the time!! I just wish the FED's didnt make such a seen out of it. They could have done it in a more quiet way! Its such a chillul Hashem!!
59
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:36 PM Anonymous Says:
May one speed while driving a critically ill patient to the ER. It is not easy to decide when one feels obligated to do illegal things to save a life. Being compensated doesn't make it wrong, though it helps. IF these accusations are true, someone may have made a great personal sacrfice to help many. This crime has no victims(except bureaucrats) as both donors and recipients are thankful. Please don't vilify someone who might have done something very noble
60
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:34 PM Anonymous Says:
May one speed while driving a critically ill patient to the ER. It is not easy to decide when one feels obligated to do illegal things to save a life. Being compensated doesn't make it wrong, though it helps. IF these accusations are true, someone may have made a great personal sacrfice to help many. This crime has no victims(except bureaucrats) as both donors and recipients are thankful. Please don't vilify someone who might have done something very noble
61
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:32 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Don't forget the mitzva of pidyin shviem goes on according to haloche (again our holy reshonim and achronim understood better then us) even the guy is proven guilty, yes its a big mitzva for you to go now and give a large donation - the larger the more mitzva- for this rosenbam ”
Sheker! If he didn't commit a crime and/or wouldn't get justice, THEN there is a mitzvah. There are many worthwhile causes that you can donate YOUR money to.
62
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Yes, a mosser is worse than almost anybody. A mosser can be killed by anybody, without a beis din. ”
An idiot like you is also making yourself fair game if you are mindlessly advocating murder of an individual outside of the judicial system. You may be living in a different world one thousand years ago where there were such halachic edicts but in the U.S. we are governed by civil law not halacha so your comment is irresponsible and probably a bigger chilul hashem than anything Dwek may have done.
63
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:02 PM Gefilte Fish Says:
These people flew in all the way from Moldova and didn't know what they're coming for?!? Oh gimme a break...!
64
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:01 PM Bugsy Siegel Says:
“ Mr. Rosenbaum saved countless lives during all these years. People with dead kidneys on a 5 year waiting list with a year left to live. The donors were people without a penny and with no work who decided to make enough money to live on for 3 years. They cried because life had gotten them into such a state but they knew what they were doing. There is no question that all this was illegal; Rosenbaum knew it and said so himself many times. But Mr. Rosenbaum is not a macabre monster who preyed on poor people. And he didn't corrupt normal government operations. He doesn't deserve to be pilloried for saving lives and helping people. He didn't make the huge profits that all these articles allege. Most of the money went for paying the doctord and hospitals and hotels for the family etc. Sure he made a profit too. But stop making him look like a monster. You wouldn't talk like that if it were your father who received one of his kidneys. ”
Rosenbaum didn't pay any doctors. As of my knowledge, he just brought them over to be donors. They went to the recipient's hospital to donate the organ. The hospital may have done the organ testing. Maybe not. Maybe Rosenbaum did the organ testing. Don't worry. What he did was unethical, criminal, and thugly. Even more embarrassing is a guy with 2 pairs of tzitzis coming off a bus looking like a thug, which he is.
Moral of the story: Don't judge a person by dress. They could be drug dealers or murderers for all you know.
65
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:35 PM avf Says:
Chillul hashem is the biggest aveira
what happened to these "frumer" peoples Bitachon if Hashem took away your liver the he wants you to leave this world , not to take advantage of poor people bodies and to ingage in illeagal activities
66
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:43 PM Anonymous Says:
“ And why are you ashamed and embarrarsed? If your life is a perfect example of yiddishkeit then its obvious that these 'Rabbis' don't represent you and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
However, you probably shake womens hands in business, you try to blend in with your dress, and socialize with them. In that case, don't worry about the 'Rabbis', worry about yourself. ”
Please explain to me how you can equate CRIMINAL Acts with doing business with goyim? I would rather shake a womens hand or sit down in a kosher restaurant with a goy than committ a crime. Trafficing in human organs is a CRIME pure & simple. Money laundering and tax evasion is a crime pure & simple. You can not live by a dual standard. We (Yidden) are not above the law.
67
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:59 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You are making an assumption that shaking women’s hands in business is Assur according to all… this is NOT the case. It is true that the Chazon Ish held it is Yeherog Vaal Yaavor but others disagree. I spoke to a number of Gedolai Yisrael (it is not my place to speak for them if they didn’t publicize their P’sak) who told me that if a women gives her hand to you should shake it because of Kavod HaBrios. You also assume that adopting to a dress code from the 18th century is somehow a proper way to dress as opposed to wearing respectable modern dress. Please don’t tell me the Mamer Chazal of Lo Shinai Malbusho, because if you really followed that you would be wearing a robe and a turban. ”
One of the best comments on this website in a long time. I shake women's hand in my line of buisness all the time - it is no big deal and I have no doubt many of you would look down upon me for that. But, I don't steal, sell kidneys, launder money, cause a massive chillul hashem, or do any of the other nonsense that those "holy Rabbis" got arrested for doing so I am pretty comfortable for where I am as far as my yiddishkeit.
68
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:57 PM Cadd9 Says:
“ And why are you ashamed and embarrarsed? If your life is a perfect example of yiddishkeit then its obvious that these 'Rabbis' don't represent you and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
However, you probably shake womens hands in business, you try to blend in with your dress, and socialize with them. In that case, don't worry about the 'Rabbis', worry about yourself. ”
I truly fail to understand what trying to blend in in dress etyc. has to do with being embarrased.I read this argument of yours twice already. and still fail to see the connection. I have a hard time explaining our "exemplery" lifestyle to my co-workers ,customers, friends,relatives and my children. Yes my children too. My children can't understand what is going on.
PS: In case you do find a connection between trying to blend in and being embarrased. I don't shake hands with woman for business I wear a white shirt and suit with a black velvet yarmulke at work. I don't go to clubs and bars with customers and even arranged not to go to trade shows.
69
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:56 PM Torah Truth Says:
“ Hello people!! Its ILLEGAL!! Who cares if he is helping others and saving himself while getting a sick profit. It is illegal!!!! The Torah says you cant do an aviera in order to do a mitzvah. You can NOT steal in order to give to the poor!! I dont know if the accusations are true on any of the people who got arrested but if it is, then dont do the crime if you cant do the time!! I just wish the FED's didnt make such a seen out of it. They could have done it in a more quiet way! Its such a chillul Hashem!! ”
I’m not sure if you are correct and this is not black and white. You are allowed to steal for Pikuach Nefesh, you are allowed and BTW, Mechuyav to be Mechalel Shabbos for Pikuach Nefesh. I don’t know this man or his motivations but I would say in this case it is no so clear.
70
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:56 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Yemach Shem'o of the animal who makes massive profits of others people's great pain and suffering. that's all I have to say. ”
Would y ou donate a kidney if I pay you a million dollars? How about 10 million? Would you say if you've been paid 50 million dollars he is "making a massive profit on other peoples great pain"?
To those donors $10,000 could be as millions are to you.
71
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:55 PM You guys are Crazy Says:
#6 is correct. The operation to remove a kidney is done in a regular hospital by regular surgeons. The "donor" is interviewed many times by social workers. You think that everyone down the line was idiots, or "on the take"??? If that was true, $160,000 would not begin to cover his expenses.
OF COURSE NOT! These people were not coerced to do anything. It would be absolutely impossible to force someone thru this entire process. DON"T BELIEVE ALL THIS B.S.
And # 29 and #37 are also absolutely correct. He helped many Yidden off of their death bed - and the family was more than happy to pay the fee. Ask any diabetic going thru bi-weekly blood transfusions (spell that hell on earth), waiting months or more for a donor. They will tell you that he is a "Malach"
Shame on all of you senseless bloggers that are ready to be "dan l'kaf choiv" anyone.
72
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Hello people!! Its ILLEGAL!! Who cares if he is helping others and saving himself while getting a sick profit. It is illegal!!!! The Torah says you cant do an aviera in order to do a mitzvah. You can NOT steal in order to give to the poor!! I dont know if the accusations are true on any of the people who got arrested but if it is, then dont do the crime if you cant do the time!! I just wish the FED's didnt make such a seen out of it. They could have done it in a more quiet way! Its such a chillul Hashem!! ”
I agree its not ok to sell kidneys...just woundering if you're on dialisys for 3 years (50% chance of being dead by then) and you lost your job and everything else and ur life expectancy is down to months....i wish I can hear you type this stupid comment of yours in that position...it is as much illeagal for the donor or recipient to do this for money.
73
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:57 PM Anonymous Says:
Trafficing in human organs is illegal worldwide. There is a difference in paying someone in a foregin country (where it is legal) and trafficing.
74
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:54 PM montrealer Says:
“ If you believe this story, I've got a bridge to sell you. ”
was told to me by the yid's son. Why would he lie?
75
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:53 PM Anonymous Says:
“ These people flew in all the way from Moldova and didn't know what they're coming for?!? Oh gimme a break...! ”
Do not attempt to transfer blame to some poor soul from some third world country who is coming to the US under false pretense. It is no different that the 3 bochrum from Israel who thought they were just smuggling antiques.
76
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:53 PM merkin Says:
“ I am always in complete amazement at some of the most outrageous and ignorant comments I read on this board from those who defend these vile criminals. It usually comes from those of you who can't spell an English word to save your life. The message that you ignorant people are sending is the following:
1. It is ok to be a child molester, a killer and thug, a thief and a crook but you must NEVER be a Moser. That is the worst Aveirah in the torah. Well, I have news for you. You have it all wrong. I would turn in these crooks in a second.
2. The biggest Mitzvah in the world is not learning torah, is not doing Chasodim or Davening or helping Almonos or Yesomim but rather Pidum Shvyim of the worst types of criminals. Is this what Yiddishkeit and our Torah teaches us. Where did you people come from??? ”
you said it right, brother. And I worry about the message that our younger generation is getting from these constant news stories.
77
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Don't forget the mitzva of pidyin shviem goes on according to haloche (again our holy reshonim and achronim understood better then us) even the guy is proven guilty, yes its a big mitzva for you to go now and give a large donation - the larger the more mitzva- for this rosenbam ”
If this man is convicted of the charges, I would not give one cent to help, it is no mitzvah, he is a common criminal. He is a RODEF! Please allow me to put forth an example for you, let us assume that you have a 12 year old boy he is being "groomed" by a frum pedophile who sexually assults him (lo Alenu) this man is identified by the young boy and subsequently convited based on incontrivertable evidence and sentenced to prison. You are honestly going to tell me that you would contribute money and effort to get this person out of prison? The person who ruined your childs life! Answer honestly!
78
Jul 24, 2009 at 01:46 PM Anonymous Says:
“ An idiot like you is also making yourself fair game if you are mindlessly advocating murder of an individual outside of the judicial system. You may be living in a different world one thousand years ago where there were such halachic edicts but in the U.S. we are governed by civil law not halacha so your comment is irresponsible and probably a bigger chilul hashem than anything Dwek may have done. ”
we're governed by common law, not civil law.
79
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:51 PM Torah Truth Says:
Now we all understand the responsibility that WE ALL have to act properly and NOT make a Chilul HaShem. If you chose to dress in a way the others “perceive” you as a Rabbi or a Frum Jew, then YOU (WE) have the responsibility to act accordingly! It doesn’t matter if a person is an Am HaAretz, if he dresses like a Frum Jew then he needs to act like one. The person on the street doesn’t make the distinction! Rightfully or wrongfully when our Chasidishe brothers wear their “Livush” or our Litvishe brothers wear their white shirt and black hat, the world sees them as Rabbis and B’nei Torah. An awesome responsibility and a lesson to be learned! Think twice before we talk (Loshon Nekiah). Think twice before we enter certain places (HaMeivin Yovin). Think twice before we act dishonestly in business or taxes. If you ask my opinion this is an area that needs SIGNIFICANT correction in the Torah world much more than Tznius and other issues that seem to get so much prominence and should be the central theme of every Shabbos Chazzon Drasha. HONESTY! No more Drei Kup nonsense that it for a good cause, there is no Dinan Dimalchusa, it’s for Limud HaTorah, we pay too much taxes, plain simple HONESTY. Honesty in business, honesty with our family life… honesty with ourselves. As Rav Breuer ZT”L said not just Glatt Kosher… Glatt YOSHER!
80
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:48 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It is actually a Mitzvah to save people's lives with these organ transplants. ”
It is probably a mitzva to save peoples lives with both of Rosenbaums kidneys
81
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:05 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It is actually a Mitzvah to save people's lives with these organ transplants. ”
A mitzvah? A mitzah? You think that stealing organs by gunpoint is a mitzvah? What kind of a mother gave birth to you?
82
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:10 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Chassidishe levush has nothing to do with Polish noblemen. ”
Another Millhouse Moment, perhaps you need a history lesson, please look at the Polishe Poretz and you will see what the lavoosh of the time was and how similar current chassidishe lavoosh is.
83
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:08 PM Anonymous Says:
So many of the postings in response to this article suggest that some of these alleged crimes are "OK" under their interpretation of halacha. Without agreeing or disagreeing with their "poseks' (which are frequently wrong or at least uncelear), the issue of halacha is totally irrelevant to this discussion since Rav Kassin and the other rabbonim and yiddin indicted will not be judge under halacha (at least not until they have a "one on one" with the Ebesheter). The will be judged innocent or guilty under Federal criminal laws and based on what we have heard thusfar, which admittedly is very early, they have some very bad optics and facts to overcome. However, halacha is irrelevant to THIS DISCUSSION, although it obviously is relevant to their behavior as yidden. The same with anyone who reports crimes to the police. You cannot just sit back and say I won't report another jew...let him continue to rip people off..thats someone else's problem. Clearly, in some cases, reporting to the rabbonim is not a great idea, since the rabbonim themselves are potentially part of the problem.
84
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:08 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I heard that this money was for charity funds and not personal, can anyone confirm that?. ”
What difference does that make? If someone forces you to sell a kidney, do you care who profits from it or do you want them all to hang?
85
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:05 PM tzoorba Says:
“ Rosenbaum didn't pay any doctors. As of my knowledge, he just brought them over to be donors. They went to the recipient's hospital to donate the organ. The hospital may have done the organ testing. Maybe not. Maybe Rosenbaum did the organ testing. Don't worry. What he did was unethical, criminal, and thugly. Even more embarrassing is a guy with 2 pairs of tzitzis coming off a bus looking like a thug, which he is.
Moral of the story: Don't judge a person by dress. They could be drug dealers or murderers for all you know. ”
If he was conducting a business and especially if the allegations about force are true (they don't make any sense because the donor would have many opportunities to bow out with all the medical testing and interaction with doctors and staff) this was a great crime due to the massive chilul Hashem.
However, if he would simply have volunteered to be a broker and not require any money up front, then he should have been able to accept presents after the fact and the seller and the buyer would have been thrilled.
He would have been a hero for saving lives and the donors would also have been heroes to save sick people. He would have made enough money from presents after the fact that were totally legal.
86
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:01 PM Anonymous Says:
This charge is an antisimetic blod libel!
87
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:00 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This is what happens when we look away from our own heimishe misdeeds. I happen to be meeting with non-Jews in middletown today. I'm ashamed and afraid this stuff will come up. Kol yisroel areivim ze Loze goes both ways. I think there should be a massive rally denouncing these rotten apples these eriev rav among us. Let the world know we don't stand with them and that we are as outraged at these wolves among us that bring every tzorah to us all for money. ”
It's too late for that. They are NOT erev rav, they are properly-born Jews and we all have to suffer equally for their crimes, like we did 65 years ago. Eat it.
88
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:32 PM another one Says:
“ Not withstanding the criminality of the current case, I wonder why a woman can abort her fetus claiming that she has the right to control her own body, but a fellow can't sell one of his kidneys using the same principle. The sale of organs is illegal for no good reason. The illegality of it is one of the reasons that there is a shortage of transplantable organs. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to sell his kidney, for instance, or bequeath is heart, lungs, liver, etc. to his heirs for sale? Yes, I know that, practically speaking, there are some major halachic concerns for Jews, both donating and receiving, but why should it not be allowed in principle? ”
"The sale of organs is illegal for no good reason."
once again posters show their ignorance,. and play it as knowledgeable fact.
the reason for the sale of organs being illegal, it to curb kidnapping and murdering of individuals to harvest organs in third world countries.
89
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:31 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Who said he used force? Once the person made up to donate, it is too late. ”
No, it isn't. They have the right to change their mind right until they go under the anaesthesia. It would be unconscionable to use force to keep them to such an agreement. But the "evidence" presented here that he did any such thing is far from convincing.
90
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:28 PM amazed at ignorance Says:
#37 - if he was such a Tzaddik why did he profit $150, 000 for each kidney?
Now you'll tell me he gave Tzedakah with the money!
Any yeshiva he built or Sefer torah he donated SHOULD NOT BE USED!!!
TREIF GELT!!! Treifos are me'tamtaim ha'lev!
And we want to know why so many yidden are oif tsoros??
ZACH V'YASHAR Hoshea NA!!
91
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:19 PM Anonymous Says:
this man is a good guy, I dont beleive every thing these evil peaple are saying,
92
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:17 PM 613 not 6130 Says:
“ If the people in Middletown ask "you" about something a fellow jew was allegedly doing, you should ask "him" about the non-jewish drug dealers arrested this week in Newark, and the non jewish murderers arrested in Florida.
Stop with the complex of thinking you have to be responsible for every accusation on any jew around the world. ”
hmm when i was in yeshiva we were told that chilul hashem falls on all klal yisroel that each of us has to do whats right and in the end we will all do what is right.. y don't u stop apologizing for the criminals
93
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ #6 is correct. The operation to remove a kidney is done in a regular hospital by regular surgeons. The "donor" is interviewed many times by social workers. You think that everyone down the line was idiots, or "on the take"??? If that was true, $160,000 would not begin to cover his expenses.
OF COURSE NOT! These people were not coerced to do anything. It would be absolutely impossible to force someone thru this entire process. DON"T BELIEVE ALL THIS B.S.
And # 29 and #37 are also absolutely correct. He helped many Yidden off of their death bed - and the family was more than happy to pay the fee. Ask any diabetic going thru bi-weekly blood transfusions (spell that hell on earth), waiting months or more for a donor. They will tell you that he is a "Malach"
Shame on all of you senseless bloggers that are ready to be "dan l'kaf choiv" anyone.
”
yeah? are you ready to donate your organs after 120? or are you just a taker like the rest of this chevrah
94
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Mr. Rosenbaum saved countless lives during all these years. People with dead kidneys on a 5 year waiting list with a year left to live. The donors were people without a penny and with no work who decided to make enough money to live on for 3 years. They cried because life had gotten them into such a state but they knew what they were doing. There is no question that all this was illegal; Rosenbaum knew it and said so himself many times. But Mr. Rosenbaum is not a macabre monster who preyed on poor people. And he didn't corrupt normal government operations. He doesn't deserve to be pilloried for saving lives and helping people. He didn't make the huge profits that all these articles allege. Most of the money went for paying the doctord and hospitals and hotels for the family etc. Sure he made a profit too. But stop making him look like a monster. You wouldn't talk like that if it were your father who received one of his kidneys. ”
Mr. Rosenbaum exploited poor and uneducated people in a monstrous fashion: cutting out their organs and you want to excuse this behavior? Thank Hashem I am not related to you.
95
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:33 PM A Frum MD Says:
“ Not withstanding the criminality of the current case, I wonder why a woman can abort her fetus claiming that she has the right to control her own body, but a fellow can't sell one of his kidneys using the same principle. The sale of organs is illegal for no good reason. The illegality of it is one of the reasons that there is a shortage of transplantable organs. Why shouldn't someone be allowed to sell his kidney, for instance, or bequeath is heart, lungs, liver, etc. to his heirs for sale? Yes, I know that, practically speaking, there are some major halachic concerns for Jews, both donating and receiving, but why should it not be allowed in principle? ”
Because if that were to take place then only the wealthiest of people would have organ transplantation. That is not an equatble solution, what about the poor talmud chucham who has merely enough to get by day to day is he not entitled to an organ transplant if he needs one. In your scenario this would not happen.
96
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:27 PM A Frum MD Says:
“ I am always in complete amazement at some of the most outrageous and ignorant comments I read on this board from those who defend these vile criminals. It usually comes from those of you who can't spell an English word to save your life. The message that you ignorant people are sending is the following:
1. It is ok to be a child molester, a killer and thug, a thief and a crook but you must NEVER be a Moser. That is the worst Aveirah in the torah. Well, I have news for you. You have it all wrong. I would turn in these crooks in a second.
2. The biggest Mitzvah in the world is not learning torah, is not doing Chasodim or Davening or helping Almonos or Yesomim but rather Pidum Shvyim of the worst types of criminals. Is this what Yiddishkeit and our Torah teaches us. Where did you people come from??? ”
Apparently not from the same planet. I could not have said it better! Thank you.
97
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:39 PM Anonymous Says:
this guy is pothetic and a mamzer. Why is that everyone defends our own every time the guy has a beard and payos? If the guy was not what many idiots call "farfrumt" nobody would have comments.
The minute a story is about a boro park looking type of guy (the way you all judge people) then we hear about pidyon shvuyim and all this waste of time of "helping" criminals.
Enough is enough and it is time for rabanim to get off their damn chairs and say something publicly that this will not be tolorated in our communities. Every time some jerk of ours does something criminally many OBSERVANT jewish people have to explain to their collegues that it's not all of us and we get looked upon like we are all criminals. It is not fair and it is no right.
WHEN the heck will rabanim get off their chairs and speak about decency, how to act in business, business ethics and many other REAL important topics?
I am tired of hearing about strawberries and shaitles and all these other stupid things that are not as aimportant to yiddishkeit or halacha. These other stupid topics are chumras.
It seems that as a community we are looking more and more like a bunch of phonies and fakers because many act and give an impression on the outside but on the inside they are a bunch of crokks or care more about not missing davening but when it comes to business they cheat and steal and manipulate anyway they can get away with.
Of course we don't hear one word from any rabanim.
Why not?
98
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:22 PM A Frum MD Says:
“ If G-d forbid life of your beloved ones would depend on a kidney transplant, who wouldn’t pay $160k to save the life? ”
And that means that the poor Yid who does not have the $160k should Die! Who made you judge. This is exactly the reason these laws are enacted, so that even a person with no money has the same opportunity to receive a transplant, it is based on medical need not money. The solution more organ donations. If you want to pay for a transplant then go to a country that permits the sale of organs and have the surgery there, but please don't bring your schmutz here. Just because you have the $$ does not make you better. And any Doc who is aware of the situation and they most assuredly would be should have their license revoked.
99
Jul 24, 2009 at 03:17 PM I am not mekabel loshon horah Says:
How did he get the organs? Did he do the surgery himself? I think not. In that case there were doctors involved, and I am sure they checked out carefully the source of the organs, so I am not so sure about his guilt. Otherwise I think that the doctors and the hospitals are just as guilty.
100
Jul 24, 2009 at 03:06 PM David Says:
“ It is actually a Mitzvah to save people's lives with these organ transplants. ”
So, when this mamzer threatens people's lives, and then sells organs to the highest bidder, it's all l'shaym shamayim? What yeshiva did you go to, rebbe?
101
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ A mitzvah? A mitzah? You think that stealing organs by gunpoint is a mitzvah? What kind of a mother gave birth to you? ”
And you believe he stole organs at gun point, and nobody went to police in all those years?
How stupid can some people be? may i sell you the Brooklyn bridge?
102
Jul 24, 2009 at 02:52 PM Anonymous Says:
“ this guy is pothetic and a mamzer. Why is that everyone defends our own every time the guy has a beard and payos? If the guy was not what many idiots call "farfrumt" nobody would have comments.
The minute a story is about a boro park looking type of guy (the way you all judge people) then we hear about pidyon shvuyim and all this waste of time of "helping" criminals.
Enough is enough and it is time for rabanim to get off their damn chairs and say something publicly that this will not be tolorated in our communities. Every time some jerk of ours does something criminally many OBSERVANT jewish people have to explain to their collegues that it's not all of us and we get looked upon like we are all criminals. It is not fair and it is no right.
WHEN the heck will rabanim get off their chairs and speak about decency, how to act in business, business ethics and many other REAL important topics?
I am tired of hearing about strawberries and shaitles and all these other stupid things that are not as aimportant to yiddishkeit or halacha. These other stupid topics are chumras.
It seems that as a community we are looking more and more like a bunch of phonies and fakers because many act and give an impression on the outside but on the inside they are a bunch of crokks or care more about not missing davening but when it comes to business they cheat and steal and manipulate anyway they can get away with.
Of course we don't hear one word from any rabanim.
Why not? ”
The torah requires us to be "dan lekaf zechus"., it's a chiyuv.
And besides, I don't believe this story posted here. dealing with organs is one thing, and this story of using a gun is non sense, and lie, and I don't believe nothing of this attention seeking woman's baloney.
103
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:25 PM Wondering..... Says:
Think of all the millions of dollars that should be going to help innocent poor yidden and mosdos which will now be taken away to form a legal defense fund for these guys.
104
Jul 24, 2009 at 04:26 PM To the very Naive MD Says:
“ Because if that were to take place then only the wealthiest of people would have organ transplantation. That is not an equatble solution, what about the poor talmud chucham who has merely enough to get by day to day is he not entitled to an organ transplant if he needs one. In your scenario this would not happen. ”
Dear Mr. (so called) MD
The fact that someone imports organs from any 3d world country, doesn't prevent nor diminish NOT EVEN THE LEAST BIT, that a poor Talmid Chuchem can also get a Kidney under welfare, or Medicaid.
The sale of Organs imported form outside the USA, in no way diminishes the legitimate pre-existing supply inside the legitimate channels in the USA.
It is truly a 100% victimless crime and should be 100% legal, as long as the imported organs comes form 3d world countries where the USA would never have had access to these organs anyway if it was not paid for.
Ze Nehene Veze Loy Choser and many many many human lives are saved and poor 3d world country people (donors) get richer too!
Finlay Mr GOODY GOODY MD,
Why don't you practice medicine 34/7 for free for all poor yidden.
Why do you earn in the high 3 digit figure while the poor talmid chuchem has to resort to sub standard "free Medicaid doctors" and we all know how goo the Medicaid doctors are, compared to those who charge an arm and leg for surgery.
In spite of all the self righteous people like you, it is no secret that the absolute FINEST medical care is available only to the highest bidder in the USA!!!!
Only the SUPER FILTHY RICH, can afford the absolute FINEST doctors!
The BEST doctors, the absolute finest, not only don't they take Medicaid, they don't even take only insurance at all - only cold cash in the triple digit figures, just for few hour operation.
These doctors earn a few million per year as a salary and pay less then 10% of that for malpractice, nor are they "NEBECH" paying off their poor medical school expenses from decades ago.
One more note to the arrogand MD:
Don't be such a "yene-maaseh", to think that just because you are past 3d grade and so know how to spell English, that makes you any smarter than most people who are far wiser than you but speak a diffrent language other than English (spelling as you would like it).
Is that the pride of your Gevalidke "Doctor-shaft", that you can spell the word "cat" without making 7 erros?
You put your spelling inside your injections?
I am sure glad you are not my doctor.
105
Jul 24, 2009 at 04:17 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Yemach Shem'o of the animal who makes massive profits of others people's great pain and suffering. that's all I have to say. ”
I don't understand, if he offerd 10k for someone who is donaiting his kidney and he agreed so why r u blaming him? Becouse he was a good buissnes man who knows how to make money he didn't steal n e thing.
106
Jul 24, 2009 at 04:03 PM isaac Says:
I need clarification. The butcher in monsey everyone wanted to hang. Bernie maddof everyone wants to crush. The grill on 13th avenue everyone wanted to burn down. Suddenly everyone seems to have found some inner voice of t'shuvah, daan l'kaf zchus, inoccent until proven guilty, fantastic conspiracy theories, etc. Can someone clarify when we condemn and when we pull the warm and fuzzy?
107
Jul 24, 2009 at 03:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ One of the best comments on this website in a long time. I shake women's hand in my line of buisness all the time - it is no big deal and I have no doubt many of you would look down upon me for that. But, I don't steal, sell kidneys, launder money, cause a massive chillul hashem, or do any of the other nonsense that those "holy Rabbis" got arrested for doing so I am pretty comfortable for where I am as far as my yiddishkeit. ”
1: NO "WRONG" makes another "WRONG" right!
2: How do you throw hundreds of thousands of honest hard-working frum yidden and Rabbis in the same Chulen pot belonging to these few scumbags???
108
Jul 24, 2009 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Dear Mr. (so called) MD
The fact that someone imports organs from any 3d world country, doesn't prevent nor diminish NOT EVEN THE LEAST BIT, that a poor Talmid Chuchem can also get a Kidney under welfare, or Medicaid.
The sale of Organs imported form outside the USA, in no way diminishes the legitimate pre-existing supply inside the legitimate channels in the USA.
It is truly a 100% victimless crime and should be 100% legal, as long as the imported organs comes form 3d world countries where the USA would never have had access to these organs anyway if it was not paid for.
Ze Nehene Veze Loy Choser and many many many human lives are saved and poor 3d world country people (donors) get richer too!
Finlay Mr GOODY GOODY MD,
Why don't you practice medicine 34/7 for free for all poor yidden.
Why do you earn in the high 3 digit figure while the poor talmid chuchem has to resort to sub standard "free Medicaid doctors" and we all know how goo the Medicaid doctors are, compared to those who charge an arm and leg for surgery.
In spite of all the self righteous people like you, it is no secret that the absolute FINEST medical care is available only to the highest bidder in the USA!!!!
Only the SUPER FILTHY RICH, can afford the absolute FINEST doctors!
The BEST doctors, the absolute finest, not only don't they take Medicaid, they don't even take only insurance at all - only cold cash in the triple digit figures, just for few hour operation.
These doctors earn a few million per year as a salary and pay less then 10% of that for malpractice, nor are they "NEBECH" paying off their poor medical school expenses from decades ago.
One more note to the arrogand MD:
Don't be such a "yene-maaseh", to think that just because you are past 3d grade and so know how to spell English, that makes you any smarter than most people who are far wiser than you but speak a diffrent language other than English (spelling as you would like it).
Is that the pride of your Gevalidke "Doctor-shaft", that you can spell the word "cat" without making 7 erros?
You put your spelling inside your injections?
I am sure glad you are not my doctor. ”
You are an imbecile. Is it right that a poor person should wait longer for a kidney then a rich person. You think that people in third world countries should give away all their kidneys? Why don't you give away your kidneys? You are a nutcase who needs to be locked up.
109
Jul 24, 2009 at 04:40 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I don't understand, if he offerd 10k for someone who is donaiting his kidney and he agreed so why r u blaming him? Becouse he was a good buissnes man who knows how to make money he didn't steal n e thing. ”
1) The fact that it is ILLEGAL (wheather we agree with the reason behind it or not)
doesn't matter ? Are we ABOVE the law ?
2) Is it ethical and just being a "good businessman" to charge 16 times the amount
you pay for an item that the buyer is nebech critically desperate for - or is that being a money grubbing chazer ? this STINKS to high heaven.
110
Jul 24, 2009 at 04:37 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Dear Mr. (so called) MD
The fact that someone imports organs from any 3d world country, doesn't prevent nor diminish NOT EVEN THE LEAST BIT, that a poor Talmid Chuchem can also get a Kidney under welfare, or Medicaid.
The sale of Organs imported form outside the USA, in no way diminishes the legitimate pre-existing supply inside the legitimate channels in the USA.
It is truly a 100% victimless crime and should be 100% legal, as long as the imported organs comes form 3d world countries where the USA would never have had access to these organs anyway if it was not paid for.
Ze Nehene Veze Loy Choser and many many many human lives are saved and poor 3d world country people (donors) get richer too!
Finlay Mr GOODY GOODY MD,
Why don't you practice medicine 34/7 for free for all poor yidden.
Why do you earn in the high 3 digit figure while the poor talmid chuchem has to resort to sub standard "free Medicaid doctors" and we all know how goo the Medicaid doctors are, compared to those who charge an arm and leg for surgery.
In spite of all the self righteous people like you, it is no secret that the absolute FINEST medical care is available only to the highest bidder in the USA!!!!
Only the SUPER FILTHY RICH, can afford the absolute FINEST doctors!
The BEST doctors, the absolute finest, not only don't they take Medicaid, they don't even take only insurance at all - only cold cash in the triple digit figures, just for few hour operation.
These doctors earn a few million per year as a salary and pay less then 10% of that for malpractice, nor are they "NEBECH" paying off their poor medical school expenses from decades ago.
One more note to the arrogand MD:
Don't be such a "yene-maaseh", to think that just because you are past 3d grade and so know how to spell English, that makes you any smarter than most people who are far wiser than you but speak a diffrent language other than English (spelling as you would like it).
Is that the pride of your Gevalidke "Doctor-shaft", that you can spell the word "cat" without making 7 erros?
You put your spelling inside your injections?
I am sure glad you are not my doctor. ”
Very well put. However, you sound like a lawyer and if you are one, the same arguments go against your profession as well. Doctors & lawyers are the only two professions that live off the misery of the people.
111
Jul 24, 2009 at 05:25 PM HA HA HA Says:
Picture this scenario - there's a hold up and the perp says - your kidney or your life! How are the illegal kidneys harvested? - by the crook who held him up? or by some crooked doctor? Give me a break. I don't believe this story at all.
112
Jul 24, 2009 at 04:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ And why are you ashamed and embarrarsed? If your life is a perfect example of yiddishkeit then its obvious that these 'Rabbis' don't represent you and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
However, you probably shake womens hands in business, you try to blend in with your dress, and socialize with them. In that case, don't worry about the 'Rabbis', worry about yourself. ”
for your information Mr. "authentic Satmer", yekkes shake hands with women as long as it's not derech Chiba and many erliche non chassidic yidden (i.e. yekkes and litvaks) dress in goyish business suits as long as they are conservative style.You on the other hand , have your priorities messed up ... you think levush is worse than genayvah and chillul Hashem.This is one of the problems with satmer and that is why they are so disfunctional.
113
Jul 24, 2009 at 03:53 PM gregaaron Says:
“ It's too late for that. They are NOT erev rav, they are properly-born Jews and we all have to suffer equally for their crimes, like we did 65 years ago. Eat it. ”
Please do not even think of comparing this "suffering" to the Holocaust. When people throw around phrases intended to imply a higher magnitude, it cheapens everything they say.
114
Jul 24, 2009 at 03:45 PM menachem Says:
“ Don't forget the mitzva of pidyin shviem goes on according to haloche (again our holy reshonim and achronim understood better then us) even the guy is proven guilty, yes its a big mitzva for you to go now and give a large donation - the larger the more mitzva- for this rosenbam ”
Are you kidding me? Look up the halacha please. Do you think it is referring to the meshala shel chesed? OMG I cant believe the amaratzas that people have here.
115
Jul 24, 2009 at 03:43 PM BAS NOACH Says:
“ Because if that were to take place then only the wealthiest of people would have organ transplantation. That is not an equatble solution, what about the poor talmud chucham who has merely enough to get by day to day is he not entitled to an organ transplant if he needs one. In your scenario this would not happen. ”
It's supposed to be purely altruitic. However, if there were legal provisions made for live donor organs (such as a kidney from a healthy adult), for payment that would be open and above board, many lives could be saved and the quality of life of many dialysis patients could be improved.
116
Jul 24, 2009 at 06:06 PM formally Says:
“ Another Millhouse Moment, perhaps you need a history lesson, please look at the Polishe Poretz and you will see what the lavoosh of the time was and how similar current chassidishe lavoosh is. ”
I am sure Millhouse would agree that even if chassdeim would have started or begun in the Caribbeans they he still would have been wearing the same lavoosh as they do now. I am sure the Baal Shemtov maybe would have dressed differently if he was raised in a hot country
117
Jul 24, 2009 at 06:06 PM A CARING JEW Says:
“ And that means that the poor Yid who does not have the $160k should Die! Who made you judge. This is exactly the reason these laws are enacted, so that even a person with no money has the same opportunity to receive a transplant, it is based on medical need not money. The solution more organ donations. If you want to pay for a transplant then go to a country that permits the sale of organs and have the surgery there, but please don't bring your schmutz here. Just because you have the $$ does not make you better. And any Doc who is aware of the situation and they most assuredly would be should have their license revoked. ”
you FRUM MD are stupid. To save a life, and especially your Own, wouldn't you do everything? If you have the money do it. You MD would do the same for yourself or a member of your family. You did not deprive anybody from this KIDNEY. It was given from a different country with the consent of the donor. Wake up. KOL HAMAKAYM NEFESH OCHAT.
118
Jul 24, 2009 at 06:11 PM reply to # 95 Says:
Your reason is not a good enough reason to take away the rights of people to sell their organs, its just as much a privacy issue as abortion, if a woman is allowed to abort her child (read: Kill another human being) because of her Right of privacy, then a person should be allowed to sell their own organs. I am not really advocating the rights to sell organs, i have not studied the issue and I could not pass judgement, but I think I can say loud and clear that Abortion should be outlawed because it is simply murder, its murder out of convenience, because the mother doesnt feel like having a child!!!!! No reason in the world justifies the killing of innocents, except perhaps in a case where the birth puts the mothers life at risk. So my point is that the laws in this country as screwed up, not everything that is the law is necessarily just, and therefore, in my opinion, if one violates these laws they should not be judged so harshly by their own brothers and sisters.
119
Jul 24, 2009 at 06:14 PM hello Says:
Why do we think that we are above the law ?
That is not a Jewish way to think.
The whole world especially the media are waiting when they can spread bad things about the Jews, so why do we give them the dirt ?
As they say, let’s turn to a new page and stop breaking the law and let’s avoid a chilul hashem at all costs.
120
Jul 24, 2009 at 06:22 PM reply to # 95 Says:
“ You are an imbecile. Is it right that a poor person should wait longer for a kidney then a rich person. You think that people in third world countries should give away all their kidneys? Why don't you give away your kidneys? You are a nutcase who needs to be locked up. ”
No, you are an imbecile! He just told you that doctors sell their services to the highest bidders, is it right that poor people die for lacking the money for medical service while the rich people get the best medical attention??? And please, if you don't agree with him you can argue with him but please keep it civilized! Shabbat shalom, peace and love!
121
Jul 24, 2009 at 06:03 PM Anonymous Says:
When I was being tested to be a kidney donor, the nephrologist told me that if for any reason I do not want to do it, just tell him & he will find some medical reason why I can't.
122
Jul 24, 2009 at 05:37 PM don't believe everything Says:
“ I am always in complete amazement at some of the most outrageous and ignorant comments I read on this board from those who defend these vile criminals. It usually comes from those of you who can't spell an English word to save your life. The message that you ignorant people are sending is the following:
1. It is ok to be a child molester, a killer and thug, a thief and a crook but you must NEVER be a Moser. That is the worst Aveirah in the torah. Well, I have news for you. You have it all wrong. I would turn in these crooks in a second.
2. The biggest Mitzvah in the world is not learning torah, is not doing Chasodim or Davening or helping Almonos or Yesomim but rather Pidum Shvyim of the worst types of criminals. Is this what Yiddishkeit and our Torah teaches us. Where did you people come from??? ”
LEARN , not everyone in jail is guilty. not everyone on the street is ancient. The Moser will do anything to save his TUKAS. The government loves this people. This big informer does not care to bury hundreds of people, complete families, just to get a reduced sentence. Remember, we are in GALLUT, the world press will do anything,lie, fabricate,fantasize, make you believe that your owen brothers are criminals. Don't believe everything. Stick together and be MELOMED ZECHUT on your owen brothers, especially our leaders. You did not hear them say that the Mayer's, the city officials are CHRISTIAN, CATHLOLIC, but when it came to us Jews it was Jews, RABBIS. Pray for the klal yisroel and for your brothers. They did not hurt a single person. The opposite, they helped others. Don't believe the press. Hopefully with HASHAMS help and our prayers everythink will work out for the best. Remember the informer is definitely guilty.
123
Jul 24, 2009 at 05:28 PM ShatzMatz Says:
I heard Dr. Hughes being interviewed on the radio. She has a real ax to grind on this issue. Some of the things she said are blasphemous. Such as that the donor becomes permanently weaker and can't work. She also implied that the donors did not receive proper medical treatment, where in fact the surgeries took place in top hospitals. While I believe that many donors have remorse after they have spent the money, the same can be said of any person who sells something out of desperation. But the transaction is still legitimate. in her film she portrays the donors as poor pitiful souls and she evokes pity for them. In most cases it is true that they are sorry souls, but it has nothing to do with the donation. On the other hand, the recepient's side of the story is not told. Their situation is just as desperate and pitiful. They get a new lease on life. The donors often resent that their situation is still pretty crappy after the surgery, while the recepient usually gets to enjoy a good life.
Ask any of the donors if they want to pay back the money to get their kidney back.
I doubt Rosenbaum threatened anyone with a gun. its just part of her fantasy.
There is no question that there is plenty of heartbreak to go around in this situation. Enough to evoke sensational headlines. But I don't think that there is an actionable crime here.
124
Jul 24, 2009 at 06:41 PM seen it all Says:
I won't judge someone by one article and the truth still has to come out so IMHO everyone should take a deep breath and let it play out.
I have one shailoh about this. Several yrs ago, the NY papers wrote about a williamsburg rov who would buy marijuana for yene machla patients to ease the pain. The police were quoted as saying we will arrest him if we catch him. He didn't make money on it and definitely didn't use the drugs.
.
Was he making a chillul hashem? Was he wrong? Look at all the comments here about dina malchusa, chillul hashem, civil law etc. and then think. Nothing is as simple as it looks.
125
Jul 24, 2009 at 06:35 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You are an imbecile. Is it right that a poor person should wait longer for a kidney then a rich person. You think that people in third world countries should give away all their kidneys? Why don't you give away your kidneys? You are a nutcase who needs to be locked up. ”
ur math is wrong!!!
the poor guy will get his kidney quicker cuase the list became shorter when the rich man gets his kidney from a donor who would not donate his kidney to the national list. so now your "poor" fellow benefits from the ugly rich man who pays a mint for his kidney.
by the way I'm sure u would pay any money if ur father/mother/sister/wife/child needed a kidney so they don't have to wait 5-7 years (and probably die while waiting)
126
Jul 24, 2009 at 06:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ for your information Mr. "authentic Satmer", yekkes shake hands with women as long as it's not derech Chiba and many erliche non chassidic yidden (i.e. yekkes and litvaks) dress in goyish business suits as long as they are conservative style.You on the other hand , have your priorities messed up ... you think levush is worse than genayvah and chillul Hashem.This is one of the problems with satmer and that is why they are so disfunctional. ”
Sorry, bu t satmer is pretty functional. At least they are not self hating jews. They would do a tova for any jew even you included.
127
Jul 25, 2009 at 03:02 PM misterzee Says:
do any of these self hating commentators know people who are dying as they wait for a kidney donor?please talk after you do
to the one who wanted to shake hands with a woman in business situations-i am a receipient of a bone marrow transplant,as such i was to be a guest at GOL gala in Manhattan.unfortunately i became very ill and was unable to attend,my sister represented me instead.she was introduce dby a ceo of a fortune 100 company who is far removed from religion,he natrually stretched pout his hand to my sister,who froze in her spot not relying on the heter of the unquoted gedolim.now all you sonie yisroel are screaming chillul hashem etc.u know what happened?he was so impressed with this gesture,as oppossed to the modern institution whose representative on his own initiative hugged a woman,he said he would cut his support for that place and increase to the true authentic people.i do not know what he did but i do know it was a kiddush hashem.those who shake hands with women tend to be lax in yiras shamayim,just as swindlers and cheats regardless of garb and affiliation are dreck.remember solomon dweck is also a grand rabbi.i assure u if he was on the other sid eof the fence which he was three years ago the press coined him rabbi,but as it turned out he was a piece of dweck
i would have to say that the lack of syrian businessman involved was because they refused to have anything to do with this scum so he went to unknowing and unsuspecting heimishe yidden.anyone in th eknow would not talk to this scumbag and if they have siyyatta dishmaya a jury will toss out the convictions.have we in the usa retorted to popular communist tactics?one thing to turn in people who in th epast did crimes,entirely different to set up people and as stated before most people can be bought for he right price
i dont know rosenbaum but saving lives all ends justify the means as long as you are not hurting the other guy,these guys in moldavia made out nicely
problem is if organized crime forced these por moldavians to donate via blackmail and such which is the reason it is illegal because it leads to forced donations
128
Jul 25, 2009 at 09:26 PM anonymous Says:
“ Dear Mr. (so called) MD
The fact that someone imports organs from any 3d world country, doesn't prevent nor diminish NOT EVEN THE LEAST BIT, that a poor Talmid Chuchem can also get a Kidney under welfare, or Medicaid.
The sale of Organs imported form outside the USA, in no way diminishes the legitimate pre-existing supply inside the legitimate channels in the USA.
It is truly a 100% victimless crime and should be 100% legal, as long as the imported organs comes form 3d world countries where the USA would never have had access to these organs anyway if it was not paid for.
Ze Nehene Veze Loy Choser and many many many human lives are saved and poor 3d world country people (donors) get richer too!
Finlay Mr GOODY GOODY MD,
Why don't you practice medicine 34/7 for free for all poor yidden.
Why do you earn in the high 3 digit figure while the poor talmid chuchem has to resort to sub standard "free Medicaid doctors" and we all know how goo the Medicaid doctors are, compared to those who charge an arm and leg for surgery.
In spite of all the self righteous people like you, it is no secret that the absolute FINEST medical care is available only to the highest bidder in the USA!!!!
Only the SUPER FILTHY RICH, can afford the absolute FINEST doctors!
The BEST doctors, the absolute finest, not only don't they take Medicaid, they don't even take only insurance at all - only cold cash in the triple digit figures, just for few hour operation.
These doctors earn a few million per year as a salary and pay less then 10% of that for malpractice, nor are they "NEBECH" paying off their poor medical school expenses from decades ago.
One more note to the arrogand MD:
Don't be such a "yene-maaseh", to think that just because you are past 3d grade and so know how to spell English, that makes you any smarter than most people who are far wiser than you but speak a diffrent language other than English (spelling as you would like it).
Is that the pride of your Gevalidke "Doctor-shaft", that you can spell the word "cat" without making 7 erros?
You put your spelling inside your injections?
I am sure glad you are not my doctor. ”
maybe he is your doctor.. maybe he's even a medicaid doctor. roflao..
129
Jul 25, 2009 at 09:38 PM meyer Says:
“ I am always in complete amazement at some of the most outrageous and ignorant comments I read on this board from those who defend these vile criminals. It usually comes from those of you who can't spell an English word to save your life. The message that you ignorant people are sending is the following:
1. It is ok to be a child molester, a killer and thug, a thief and a crook but you must NEVER be a Moser. That is the worst Aveirah in the torah. Well, I have news for you. You have it all wrong. I would turn in these crooks in a second.
2. The biggest Mitzvah in the world is not learning torah, is not doing Chasodim or Davening or helping Almonos or Yesomim but rather Pidum Shvyim of the worst types of criminals. Is this what Yiddishkeit and our Torah teaches us. Where did you people come from??? ”
Mesira is the worst aveira
130
Jul 25, 2009 at 09:37 PM tzoorba Says:
The average wait for a kidney in America is 10 years. The average life span of someone that needs a kidney is 3 years. This is a death sentence.
The claims about gun threats are probably lies because the donor and recipient would be spend a lot of time in the hospitals and would be screened very closely by the medical personnel.
Rather than being an evil trafficker in human parts, the kidney broker was an angel of mercy.
131
Jul 25, 2009 at 09:57 PM BOB Says:
“ No, it is a sin of the worst kind, it's actually a kind of rape, forcing someone to give up something pesonal they don't want to. ”
Rabbi Rosenbaum is fully innocent. The only thing he is guilty,is HELPING ANYBODY IN NEED. Nowadays we can't help everybody because there people out there that reciprocate only bad for good.
132
Jul 25, 2009 at 09:57 PM BOB Says:
“ No, it is a sin of the worst kind, it's actually a kind of rape, forcing someone to give up something pesonal they don't want to. ”
Rabbi Rosenbaum is fully innocent. The only thing he is guilty,is HELPING ANYBODY IN NEED. Nowadays we can't help everybody because there people out there that reciprocate only bad for good.
133
Jul 25, 2009 at 10:46 PM Anonymous Says:
“ No, it is a sin of the worst kind, it's actually a kind of rape, forcing someone to give up something pesonal they don't want to. ”
So you decided he forced them......! WOW!
134
Jul 25, 2009 at 11:02 PM Truth Says:
“ Mr. Rosenbaum saved countless lives during all these years. People with dead kidneys on a 5 year waiting list with a year left to live. The donors were people without a penny and with no work who decided to make enough money to live on for 3 years. They cried because life had gotten them into such a state but they knew what they were doing. There is no question that all this was illegal; Rosenbaum knew it and said so himself many times. But Mr. Rosenbaum is not a macabre monster who preyed on poor people. And he didn't corrupt normal government operations. He doesn't deserve to be pilloried for saving lives and helping people. He didn't make the huge profits that all these articles allege. Most of the money went for paying the doctord and hospitals and hotels for the family etc. Sure he made a profit too. But stop making him look like a monster. You wouldn't talk like that if it were your father who received one of his kidneys. ”
Why must you lie to defend this guy? "A year left to live." Ever hear of dialysis? If he was such a tzaddik, he could have told the patients- which country to fly to where it's legal to buy organs -I'm sure it wouldn't cost $160,000. If he would have done his business by arrainging out of country organ sales- there wouldn't be this massive chillul Hashem. How come this doesn't bother you?
135
Jul 25, 2009 at 11:15 PM WELL SAID Says:
“ LEARN , not everyone in jail is guilty. not everyone on the street is ancient. The Moser will do anything to save his TUKAS. The government loves this people. This big informer does not care to bury hundreds of people, complete families, just to get a reduced sentence. Remember, we are in GALLUT, the world press will do anything,lie, fabricate,fantasize, make you believe that your owen brothers are criminals. Don't believe everything. Stick together and be MELOMED ZECHUT on your owen brothers, especially our leaders. You did not hear them say that the Mayer's, the city officials are CHRISTIAN, CATHLOLIC, but when it came to us Jews it was Jews, RABBIS. Pray for the klal yisroel and for your brothers. They did not hurt a single person. The opposite, they helped others. Don't believe the press. Hopefully with HASHAMS help and our prayers everythink will work out for the best. Remember the informer is definitely guilty. ”
Put your E MAIL in. I would love to communicate with you. Your comments were to the point. Chilul hasham we cause between Jews by jumping to conclusions is against Hasham. Everybody should get a chance to defend himself. Unfortunately, the accused cannot say much because every word they say will count against them. If any media confront you, say only good about those people. G-d only knows the truth. AL TAHAMOD AL DOM RAHACHA.
136
Jul 25, 2009 at 11:20 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Mr. Rosenbaum saved countless lives during all these years. People with dead kidneys on a 5 year waiting list with a year left to live. The donors were people without a penny and with no work who decided to make enough money to live on for 3 years. They cried because life had gotten them into such a state but they knew what they were doing. There is no question that all this was illegal; Rosenbaum knew it and said so himself many times. But Mr. Rosenbaum is not a macabre monster who preyed on poor people. And he didn't corrupt normal government operations. He doesn't deserve to be pilloried for saving lives and helping people. He didn't make the huge profits that all these articles allege. Most of the money went for paying the doctord and hospitals and hotels for the family etc. Sure he made a profit too. But stop making him look like a monster. You wouldn't talk like that if it were your father who received one of his kidneys. ”
If he was taking $160K, keeping $10K, and giving $150K to the donor, maybe.
137
Jul 26, 2009 at 01:14 AM Anonymous Says:
“ this guy is pothetic and a mamzer. Why is that everyone defends our own every time the guy has a beard and payos? If the guy was not what many idiots call "farfrumt" nobody would have comments.
The minute a story is about a boro park looking type of guy (the way you all judge people) then we hear about pidyon shvuyim and all this waste of time of "helping" criminals.
Enough is enough and it is time for rabanim to get off their damn chairs and say something publicly that this will not be tolorated in our communities. Every time some jerk of ours does something criminally many OBSERVANT jewish people have to explain to their collegues that it's not all of us and we get looked upon like we are all criminals. It is not fair and it is no right.
WHEN the heck will rabanim get off their chairs and speak about decency, how to act in business, business ethics and many other REAL important topics?
I am tired of hearing about strawberries and shaitles and all these other stupid things that are not as aimportant to yiddishkeit or halacha. These other stupid topics are chumras.
It seems that as a community we are looking more and more like a bunch of phonies and fakers because many act and give an impression on the outside but on the inside they are a bunch of crokks or care more about not missing davening but when it comes to business they cheat and steal and manipulate anyway they can get away with.
Of course we don't hear one word from any rabanim.
Why not? ”
Rabbonim are busy with the water, the bugs, the strawberries, the shaitels and most importantly THEMSELVES - so where is there time for anything else? The summer time is a time for vacations, so every week you hear about a different Rebbe going for a few weeks for his YEARLY vacation to Austrian alps, Swiss alps etc. Not countries known for loving Jews - certainly not loving Chassidim or Rebbes. If that is what they are BUSY with - how can the Klal be on their mind? Great example they are setting in the first place...OLAM HAZEH, GASHMIUS, LUXURIES - all very appropriate for role models!!! So what can you expect from their followers? And if you need so much $$$ - think of the means people will resort to attain their dreams.In our society, unfortunately, you only count if you have a hefty bank account. How you got it doesn't seem to matter. Sad but true.
138
Jul 26, 2009 at 04:39 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Another Millhouse Moment, perhaps you need a history lesson, please look at the Polishe Poretz and you will see what the lavoosh of the time was and how similar current chassidishe lavoosh is. ”
The chasidishe levush is based on what was traditional Jewish garb in Europe for centuries, and had absolutely nothing to do with Polish pritzim. The Polish pritzim did NOT dress like that.
139
Jul 26, 2009 at 04:11 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Trafficing in human organs is illegal worldwide. There is a difference in paying someone in a foregin country (where it is legal) and trafficing. ”
What's the difference? What do you imagine "traffic" means?
140
Jul 26, 2009 at 03:35 AM Milhouse Says:
“ An idiot like you is also making yourself fair game if you are mindlessly advocating murder of an individual outside of the judicial system. You may be living in a different world one thousand years ago where there were such halachic edicts but in the U.S. we are governed by civil law not halacha so your comment is irresponsible and probably a bigger chilul hashem than anything Dwek may have done. ”
We are still in Hashem's world, and Dweck may yet find that out. If you believe halacha only applied 1000 years ago then you are a sheigetz who doesn't belong on this site. If we were governed by halacha 1000 years ago, what has changed now? Did Hashem abolish the Torah? How is 2009 different from 1009?
141
Jul 26, 2009 at 08:14 AM DONT BELEIVE EVERYTHING Says:
The gun story is another government fabrication. A organ donor goes through so much screening before, that the gun would have been exposed much before. Thank G-D the kidney saved a life. The donor used up his money, and now is the time to complain. FABRICATION
142
Jul 26, 2009 at 08:13 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Don't forget the mitzva of pidyin shviem goes on according to haloche (again our holy reshonim and achronim understood better then us) even the guy is proven guilty, yes its a big mitzva for you to go now and give a large donation - the larger the more mitzva- for this rosenbam ”
Pidyon Shevuim is only when you did not commit a crime (Bilbul) or you will be treated unfair in the courts or Jail because you are jewish. If you steal, murder or deal in drugs etc. you belong in jail....no Rachmonos and no Pidyon Shvuim. Kosher food,Tfilin. Shabos and other important Mitzvos is Arvus. If you can prove this statement wrong, please reply with proper quotations, no Svorois. This is my Rabbi' s
opinion.
143
Jul 26, 2009 at 08:38 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Don't forget the mitzva of pidyin shviem goes on according to haloche (again our holy reshonim and achronim understood better then us) even the guy is proven guilty, yes its a big mitzva for you to go now and give a large donation - the larger the more mitzva- for this rosenbam ”
Please indicate who are the Rishonim and Achronin wirth exact addresses.
144
Jul 26, 2009 at 10:13 AM Shocked Says:
“ let him rot in jail where he belongs a thug is a thug all Jewish crooks should be taken out of society ”
Looks like your not Jewish at all, if you can say this to a jewish person, it doesn't matter if he's guilty or not, you most be from the low low class people.
145
Jul 26, 2009 at 01:15 PM Gatzel Says:
“ Don't forget the mitzva of pidyin shviem goes on according to haloche (again our holy reshonim and achronim understood better then us) even the guy is proven guilty, yes its a big mitzva for you to go now and give a large donation - the larger the more mitzva- for this rosenbam ”
According to the mechaber of Minchas Yitzchok there is no mitzva of Pidyun Shevuim if the reason of arrest is for a crime and the jew is able to get a fair trial same as a non jew would.
146
Jul 26, 2009 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Rabbonim are busy with the water, the bugs, the strawberries, the shaitels and most importantly THEMSELVES - so where is there time for anything else? The summer time is a time for vacations, so every week you hear about a different Rebbe going for a few weeks for his YEARLY vacation to Austrian alps, Swiss alps etc. Not countries known for loving Jews - certainly not loving Chassidim or Rebbes. If that is what they are BUSY with - how can the Klal be on their mind? Great example they are setting in the first place...OLAM HAZEH, GASHMIUS, LUXURIES - all very appropriate for role models!!! So what can you expect from their followers? And if you need so much $$$ - think of the means people will resort to attain their dreams.In our society, unfortunately, you only count if you have a hefty bank account. How you got it doesn't seem to matter. Sad but true. ”
Amazing - in this society $$$ is all that matters. How you got it, is nobody's business-all that matters is the$$$. Shulim Weiss got 850 years in prison, but as long as he had $$$ he wasn't ostracized. What a corrupt society. How can we expect MOSHIACH to come bail out such a depraved people???
147
Jul 26, 2009 at 05:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Pidyon Shevuim is only when you did not commit a crime (Bilbul) or you will be treated unfair in the courts or Jail because you are jewish. If you steal, murder or deal in drugs etc. you belong in jail....no Rachmonos and no Pidyon Shvuim. Kosher food,Tfilin. Shabos and other important Mitzvos is Arvus. If you can prove this statement wrong, please reply with proper quotations, no Svorois. This is my Rabbi' s
opinion. ”
just to start:
they took a whopping 3 mill bail because the defendant is jewish...
148
Jul 26, 2009 at 07:36 PM Middetown Native Says:
“ This news story is not credible. ”
Why is it not credible? Not that I trust mainstream news media.. Please tell us all why it is not credible.
149
Jul 26, 2009 at 07:34 PM Middetown Native Says:
“ If the people in Middletown ask "you" about something a fellow jew was allegedly doing, you should ask "him" about the non-jewish drug dealers arrested this week in Newark, and the non jewish murderers arrested in Florida.
Stop with the complex of thinking you have to be responsible for every accusation on any jew around the world. ”
This has nothing to do with being a Jew or non Jew. This has to do with a man performing a dishonorable act in order to fatten his wallet. I don't care what religion you care to follow as long as we both have mutual respect for one another. Lack of mutual respect is what gets us all into trouble in life.
150
Jul 27, 2009 at 03:26 AM matzahlocal101 Says:
“ You are making an assumption that shaking women’s hands in business is Assur according to all… this is NOT the case. It is true that the Chazon Ish held it is Yeherog Vaal Yaavor but others disagree. I spoke to a number of Gedolai Yisrael (it is not my place to speak for them if they didn’t publicize their P’sak) who told me that if a women gives her hand to you should shake it because of Kavod HaBrios. You also assume that adopting to a dress code from the 18th century is somehow a proper way to dress as opposed to wearing respectable modern dress. Please don’t tell me the Mamer Chazal of Lo Shinai Malbusho, because if you really followed that you would be wearing a robe and a turban. ”
"You also assume that adopting to a dress code from the 18th century is somehow a proper way to dress as opposed to wearing respectable modern dress."
We copied the dress of modern age germany too. Alot that it did for us. The RSO tells us not to cut our beards and not to cut our payis, not to go in ckukas ha'akum, to the extent the bris milah is actually marked in the flesh of the Jew. Because the obvious ratzon ha'elyon is when a Jew walks in the street he should be recognizable as Jew. In Germany the Jews cut their beard and payis, many stopped be mal, the mimiced the dress of the goyim and what happened? The Goy said put on a yellow star "When a Jew walks in the street he should be recognizable as Jew." and it that fact was marked in the flesh of their left forearm. You can do it the easy way or do it the hard way, but it's gonna be the RSO way.
151
Jul 27, 2009 at 03:16 AM matzahlocal101 Says:
“ I am always in complete amazement at some of the most outrageous and ignorant comments I read on this board from those who defend these vile criminals. It usually comes from those of you who can't spell an English word to save your life. The message that you ignorant people are sending is the following:
1. It is ok to be a child molester, a killer and thug, a thief and a crook but you must NEVER be a Moser. That is the worst Aveirah in the torah. Well, I have news for you. You have it all wrong. I would turn in these crooks in a second.
2. The biggest Mitzvah in the world is not learning torah, is not doing Chasodim or Davening or helping Almonos or Yesomim but rather Pidum Shvyim of the worst types of criminals. Is this what Yiddishkeit and our Torah teaches us. Where did you people come from??? ”
Dr. Wise MD,
Your secular knowledge and corresponding lack of torah knowledge shine like beacons. There is nothing in the Torah that would prevent a person from donating (or selling) a kidney to save the life of another. Your bragging that you would turn in such crooks in a second shows your lack of Torah knowledge. The moser whose treatment is described in Choshen mishpat is the persona that you claim you wish to be. Turning in a person who may actually be "chiyen limalkus" even though he keeps taryag mitzvos and the 7 mitzvos dirabbanan is exactly what a moser is. Let me guess, you went to YU and studied under someone who was moiser Rabbi Fischer shlit"a (for nothing), right? He taught you well.
152
Jul 27, 2009 at 03:07 AM me Says:
“ Why do people like this even bother wearing a yarmulkeh or eating kosher? ”
Where in the Torah does it say you can't buy a kidney? People can function fine on one kidney and save a life in the Process. Compare this with Dr Tendler and his "Mandate" to donate hearts and livers and other organs that are "harvested" from breathing human beings that die as result" despite his brain death theory, he argues on Reb Moshe z'l who says such a transplant is equivalent to killing two people.
Go ahead tell me that Tendler is smarter than Reb Moishe and has a better understanding blah, blah, blah.
153
Jul 27, 2009 at 11:51 AM benz Says:
#54 those who are 'matir' are YOUR gedolim...please this is not a chritsian, reform etc site
154
Jul 27, 2009 at 02:38 PM Mark Says:
If you live in a state that has adopted the 2006 Uniform Anatomical Gift Act, it is presumed you are an organ donor until they determine otherwise. Even if you have a valid Advance Healthcare Directive, this new version of the act allows your body to be kept alive until your family can be convinced that you wanted to be an organ donor. The moral slippery slope contained in the 2006 version of the act is real. To learn more about your rights under the act and to register your desire not to participate, visit www.DoNotTransplant.com.
Every American has the right to say "no" and everyone should respect that right under the law.