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Spring Glen, NY - Former Homowack Lodge Occupied Despite Order to Vacate |
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Published on:
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:56 AM
News Source: Record
News Source: Record
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The DOH issued the order last week for Congregation Bais Trana to vacate the property, now called Machne Bnos Square.
The congregation opened a girls camp at the site earlier this month without a permit and has refused to leave.
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Read Comments (42) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:07 AM Anonymous Says:
Its very strange, I know some people involved in running the camp, and they're extra responsible and business like personalities, I wonder why they didn t leave the place.
Again, I have no doubt the buildings are safe and there is no real hazard or any other threat. Its all politics, the whole story doesn't add up from the beginning. But practically, if the state DOH ordered to leave, you just have to comply.
2
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:03 AM Anonymous Says:
What's the "chashben" of square yeshiva
3
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:02 AM ubet Says:
another chillel hashem! whats wrong with these people???????
4
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:01 AM Anonymous Says:
I can't believe the rebbe doesn't tell his chasidim to leave the place its such a chilull hashem , shame on them
5
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:17 AM involved Says:
“ I can't believe the rebbe doesn't tell his chasidim to leave the place its such a chilull hashem , shame on them ”
I have been involved in another camp which also had issues with DEP/DEC DOH and so on , most of the times its just belony things, and I guess skver's attorney said NOT to leave, so y do u scream "shame on them" do u know details???
6
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:38 AM Satmer 101 Says:
“ I have been involved in another camp which also had issues with DEP/DEC DOH and so on , most of the times its just belony things, and I guess skver's attorney said NOT to leave, so y do u scream "shame on them" do u know details??? ”
"it's balony" until an innocent child gets killed in a fire.
7
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:03 AM electrician Says:
they have no where to go they dont have another camp site/ they have brought in a crew & are feverishly correcting one violation after another theyre hoping to fix the majority by friday morning
8
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:02 AM another chillul hashem is just what we need.... Says:
And when someone gets hurt, and then the administration gets arrested for charges of child welfare endangerment, we wil all cry anti-semitism.
Well I cry stupid semites!!!! Maybe, just maybe we should do as we are told. Its funny, the people most vocal about not have a medinas yisroel bec we aren't supposed to take things from goyim in galus, have no problem ignoring actual laws that are really there for their safety.
And if you will say their lawyer said not to vacate, vacate regardless. Bec_se the chillul hashem is not worth it, and making a kiddush hashem during the nine days.... Well after the last few months, we could use it.
Shame on skvere!!!
9
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:49 AM KJ Says:
“ "it's balony" until an innocent child gets killed in a fire. ”
Is that what you would like ?
10
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:45 AM litvishe yid Says:
Reply to chutzpah comment 4 I happen to have a close connection with the skvere rabbi shlita...the amount of people siting in his waiting room every single day of the week 360 days a year...is not describable he gives chizuk to tens of thousands yiden,,,he doesn't deserve a comment shame on them
11
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:44 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I have been involved in another camp which also had issues with DEP/DEC DOH and so on , most of the times its just belony things, and I guess skver's attorney said NOT to leave, so y do u scream "shame on them" do u know details??? ”
Because if officials tell ANYONE to do something, we are supposed to comply. Otherwise, it is total anarchy (maybe you don't understand that word, so here's a translation...hefkeiros.) Leave, fight, & get it sorted out for next year. The owners are probably worried they'll have to pay back $$$ to the families so rather than pony up they'll get themselves shut down & create bad feeling. Seichel, right???
#2 & #4 are quite correct. This is just another example of a chilul Hashem which, coming fast on the heels of the money-laundering/body parts horror, just adds to the lousy name frum Yidden have right now.
12
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:35 AM litvak Says:
Reply to #5, I can see your talking from experience,
* I know Here 1st hand that the Lawyer said: You should NOT Leave.
*Also the Health Dept. did NOT Issue a Order to leave its FALSE, to all ppl who believe w/Emunah Pshita in the Media, especially in the Pro-Jewish Newspaper the Record, should now see w/their how Moshe Emes VTorosoi Emes & we need Not to believe every LHora & Dan Lkav zchus especially if it comes from Bias Jew hated Source..
13
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:17 AM Anonymous Says:
“ they have no where to go they dont have another camp site/ they have brought in a crew & are feverishly correcting one violation after another theyre hoping to fix the majority by friday morning ”
There is no basis for guessing as to what a lawyer said -- if they consulted with a lawyer. If they had consulted with a lawyer and the lawyer thought there were grounds for challenging the evacuation order, I suspect that he/she would have gone to court like what was done in the dispute over the certificate of occupancy for the new shul.
14
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:15 AM Belony Macarony Says:
scream and scream anti antisemitic
I saw pictures of that building and its pretty much a scare zone, ceilings collapsing etc
15
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:33 AM Anonymous Says:
Cillul hasham? Why don't we see this comments in the news from the criminal arrest made last week in the siryan community
16
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:21 AM involved Says:
“ "it's balony" until an innocent child gets killed in a fire. ”
How stupid can one be, did u read the order to vacate at all that u know what danger they stand, fires could c"v happen anywere regardless of the condition, we have seen fires in hilton's too, so calm down brother, just say a kapital thilim on their behalf if u feel they r in real danger
17
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:18 AM Anonymous Says:
“ they have no where to go they dont have another camp site/ they have brought in a crew & are feverishly correcting one violation after another theyre hoping to fix the majority by friday morning ”
What do you mean they have no where to go? Don't these children have parents with homes?
18
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:45 AM Anonymous Says:
“ scream and scream anti antisemitic
I saw pictures of that building and its pretty much a scare zone, ceilings collapsing etc ”
Just to clear up some facts!
The DOH has not cited the camp with any violations, it is only the locals who have run to every agency to chase them out. In fact the DOH has asked to leave VOLUNTARY, on no basis.
The picture shown in the media are from the unoccupied buildings, the camp area is completely clean and safe with all required certificates.
The local media is well known for their ahavas chinum, so please go on and read more of it so you could comment and a bash a bit more.
19
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:45 AM lets make a visit Says:
“ scream and scream anti antisemitic
I saw pictures of that building and its pretty much a scare zone, ceilings collapsing etc ”
How about we go together for a tour, and see if its worse than any other camp/country we see in the catskills, btw were did u see all this pictures
Just a side note, this has been a very well known place B4 skver bought it and they had quite a few weekends were they hosted people who would not go to a palce were there is falling ceilings and I can't imagine to ruine a place in 2 years
20
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:59 AM David Says:
The bottom line is they have NO PERMIT for the camp, they set it up in spite of that fact with full knowledge thet they were doing so illegally, something which seems to be happening alot these days. No permit, no camp, it's as simple as that. If they don't shut it down, the local authorities will do so for them with police, news photographers and it will blow out of proportion and hit all the local media outlets. Another Chillul Hashem. Thanks Skvere, like we didn't have enough of them lately?
21
Jul 27, 2009 at 09:16 AM Anonymous Says:
I was there recently on a weekend, the place is kept beautiful and very well maintained, fire exits all over with signs directing to exits. It looks much better than many hotels and camps.
22
Jul 27, 2009 at 08:55 AM the truth Says:
I Never new that there r such big loose idiots in town. 1)Always first to condemn, 2)they believe in the media like as if they saw it. But my question to u is.. If u r such a believer y don't u believe the other side as well.. If there is another side there is probably another side if the story... And btw y don't u all publish yur names so u can be public examples that u r good listeners and followers... I believe u never got a ticket in yur life. Not a speeding and not a parking.. Cuse if they tell u listen..
Y don't u believe that they r trying to close down that place cuse they have pressure from the neighbors etc. And they don't want u sthere.. Which makes even more sense
23
Jul 27, 2009 at 09:31 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Reply to chutzpah comment 4 I happen to have a close connection with the skvere rabbi shlita...the amount of people siting in his waiting room every single day of the week 360 days a year...is not describable he gives chizuk to tens of thousands yiden,,,he doesn't deserve a comment shame on them ”
Be'mukom chilil hasham ein cholkin kuvod l'rav
24
Jul 27, 2009 at 10:18 AM mendy berger Says:
I have read most of the comments, please note, I have been there last Friday this place is very big and it is in a few phases, the place where the camp is, is in a very good, very nice condition, there is also a part which was the hotel, which is not in use since the begging of last winter.
In addition, if some one has relatives there, they should just make One phone call to ask some details, the girls in the camp are very happy. They just start the 2nd half of the camp, a lot of girls ask if they can stay. So before you put a comment please do more research on this case
25
Jul 27, 2009 at 10:33 AM Dovid Says:
It seems not a safety issue but merely whether they have a permit for a camp, which I believe they don't
26
Jul 27, 2009 at 11:08 AM Anonymous Says:
big reseachers do some reseach they are not even using that buldind fore the girls
27
Jul 27, 2009 at 11:29 AM elections Have Consequences Says:
“ I can't believe the rebbe doesn't tell his chasidim to leave the place its such a chilull hashem , shame on them ”
instead of constantly complaining about skver, just call the Rebbe & ask him what thw cheshbon is.
28
Jul 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM Yakov Yosef Says:
Let me clarify FACTS:
If the DOH would realy want to close it they have no reason giving out a MANDATED order to vacate the property. They didn't issue it. They know that it won't be backed in court, because there is only 1 issue, they local town officials are fighting with all their might it shouldn't be entitled for a camp for tax reasons, like I explained here last week.
The building that the camp is operating in is 100 percent safe with no violations whatsoever! All those pictures you see in the media from collapsed buildings are other buildings that are not ocuppied. (for those of you who don't know, the property is a 485 acre property.) Go ahead, all you complainers, see for yourself.
Yes, the town is using the media to get Skver out of there after they saw that legally it didn't work! Because if the camp will finish operating a whole summer as a camp it will become 100 percent tax exempt. And all those commentators here are helping them out, thank you all.
29
Jul 27, 2009 at 12:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Let me clarify FACTS:
If the DOH would realy want to close it they have no reason giving out a MANDATED order to vacate the property. They didn't issue it. They know that it won't be backed in court, because there is only 1 issue, they local town officials are fighting with all their might it shouldn't be entitled for a camp for tax reasons, like I explained here last week.
The building that the camp is operating in is 100 percent safe with no violations whatsoever! All those pictures you see in the media from collapsed buildings are other buildings that are not ocuppied. (for those of you who don't know, the property is a 485 acre property.) Go ahead, all you complainers, see for yourself.
Yes, the town is using the media to get Skver out of there after they saw that legally it didn't work! Because if the camp will finish operating a whole summer as a camp it will become 100 percent tax exempt. And all those commentators here are helping them out, thank you all. ”
I don't understand why everyone is referring to different buildings -- there's 1 main building on the property. The camp, from what I've gathered from the various emails, is using one wing of the building. From what I recall (it's been a few years since I was there), there is no firewall between wings; there's barely doors between wings, so if c"v, a fire started in one wing, there isn't much to stop it from spreading to other wings.
30
Jul 27, 2009 at 12:13 PM Na.Nach Says:
“ Let me clarify FACTS:
If the DOH would realy want to close it they have no reason giving out a MANDATED order to vacate the property. They didn't issue it. They know that it won't be backed in court, because there is only 1 issue, they local town officials are fighting with all their might it shouldn't be entitled for a camp for tax reasons, like I explained here last week.
The building that the camp is operating in is 100 percent safe with no violations whatsoever! All those pictures you see in the media from collapsed buildings are other buildings that are not ocuppied. (for those of you who don't know, the property is a 485 acre property.) Go ahead, all you complainers, see for yourself.
Yes, the town is using the media to get Skver out of there after they saw that legally it didn't work! Because if the camp will finish operating a whole summer as a camp it will become 100 percent tax exempt. And all those commentators here are helping them out, thank you all. ”
Thank you for clarifying the facts. Let us all be proud as jews and trust each other and not the secular media.
31
Jul 27, 2009 at 01:10 PM chusid Says:
“ Let me clarify FACTS:
If the DOH would realy want to close it they have no reason giving out a MANDATED order to vacate the property. They didn't issue it. They know that it won't be backed in court, because there is only 1 issue, they local town officials are fighting with all their might it shouldn't be entitled for a camp for tax reasons, like I explained here last week.
The building that the camp is operating in is 100 percent safe with no violations whatsoever! All those pictures you see in the media from collapsed buildings are other buildings that are not ocuppied. (for those of you who don't know, the property is a 485 acre property.) Go ahead, all you complainers, see for yourself.
Yes, the town is using the media to get Skver out of there after they saw that legally it didn't work! Because if the camp will finish operating a whole summer as a camp it will become 100 percent tax exempt. And all those commentators here are helping them out, thank you all. ”
I posted elsewhre the same-- all you chasidim haters you never believe us , you allways believe the secular media etc. -- so, the next time you are in need of a chesed I.e. Hatzalah, chesed room in hospitals(the one in the catskills is a project of skwere ) chaverim etc. Etc.(In general all these orginazations were created by chasidim) Please don't use it because we are the ones that are allways making a chillul hashem.
32
Jul 27, 2009 at 01:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I posted elsewhre the same-- all you chasidim haters you never believe us , you allways believe the secular media etc. -- so, the next time you are in need of a chesed I.e. Hatzalah, chesed room in hospitals(the one in the catskills is a project of skwere ) chaverim etc. Etc.(In general all these orginazations were created by chasidim) Please don't use it because we are the ones that are allways making a chillul hashem. ”
Just because you do wonderful chesed iin one aspect does not give a person a right to commit a Chillul Hashem with his/her behaviour in other aspects. You cannot say because we do all this chesed we are allowed to flout all rules and regulations we don't like. That's just not the way it works.
33
Jul 27, 2009 at 02:26 PM chusid Says:
“ Just because you do wonderful chesed iin one aspect does not give a person a right to commit a Chillul Hashem with his/her behaviour in other aspects. You cannot say because we do all this chesed we are allowed to flout all rules and regulations we don't like. That's just not the way it works. ”
Go and get your facts straight about skwere then let's see who creates the chilul hashem , the hate , the venom that gets spewed on these boards digusting.... The chilul hashem is when there is an issue between a chusid and who knows who you would side with... Definetly not the chsid until you are not spoon fed that the chsid was unfortinatly right
34
Jul 27, 2009 at 04:18 PM Anonymous Says:
it's so sad to see yidden arguing like this especially in the 9 days. let the full story come out before you criticise. this has nothing to do with chassidim it could have very well happened by the litfish too. lets not argue over such pettiness
35
Jul 27, 2009 at 03:56 PM Yakov Yosef Says:
“ I don't understand why everyone is referring to different buildings -- there's 1 main building on the property. The camp, from what I've gathered from the various emails, is using one wing of the building. From what I recall (it's been a few years since I was there), there is no firewall between wings; there's barely doors between wings, so if c"v, a fire started in one wing, there isn't much to stop it from spreading to other wings. ”
The other parts of the building are empty and not occupied. And THERE ARE FIREWALLS and FIRE DOORS. Go see for yourself, before you bash. Besides the fact that an empty unused building has no fire hazard, regardless of conditions. The Town just keeps on claiming that they don't trust Skver that they won't start using it. And the reason to their mistrust is one and only thing, money. Because till this year they trusted Skver, and now all of a sudden when Skver decided to claim tax exemption as a camp they became untrustworthy. Amazing. And you still believe them. I'm proud of your Emuneh Pshutah in the secular media.
36
Jul 27, 2009 at 03:50 PM Anonymous Says:
I love Chasidim bashers. They're the first ones to run to us for help when they need it.
Be it doctor referrals, bikur cholim, hatzoloh (even non-Jews know to call them for help)
chaveirim, Tomche Shabbos or a Chabad house when someone is lost or in trouble.
Listen up Jews. ALL JEWS. Hashem gave you eyes. Do you use it to see the Tzelem Elokim in EVERY Jew. Don't you see that we are all one Neshama. Even the "bad apples" are one with us. I can guarantee that if you all felt this way you would not dare to say "Let this Jew get what he deserves"!!!
Would you wish bad on any part of your body because it wasn't perfect?
Would you suggest amputation or imprisonment?
If you answered in the affirmative you need help?
To all who wish bad on a fellow Jew you are in dire need of help. Get it now. Hashem is waiting. He wants to bring Moshiach NOW.
37
Jul 27, 2009 at 05:13 PM chusid Says:
“ I love Chasidim bashers. They're the first ones to run to us for help when they need it.
Be it doctor referrals, bikur cholim, hatzoloh (even non-Jews know to call them for help)
chaveirim, Tomche Shabbos or a Chabad house when someone is lost or in trouble.
Listen up Jews. ALL JEWS. Hashem gave you eyes. Do you use it to see the Tzelem Elokim in EVERY Jew. Don't you see that we are all one Neshama. Even the "bad apples" are one with us. I can guarantee that if you all felt this way you would not dare to say "Let this Jew get what he deserves"!!!
Would you wish bad on any part of your body because it wasn't perfect?
Would you suggest amputation or imprisonment?
If you answered in the affirmative you need help?
To all who wish bad on a fellow Jew you are in dire need of help. Get it now. Hashem is waiting. He wants to bring Moshiach NOW. ”
Well said!!!!
38
Jul 27, 2009 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:
I was there for a visit. the violations are not in the part of the building they are using. The pictures that are being circled around are from the parts of the building THEY ARE NOT USING!! There are fire wallls and fire doors BETWEEN EVERY PART OF THE BUILDING. The girls CANNOT access the other parts. They did try to get another place for second half when they got the VOLUNTARY eviction notice.They are closing the camp for second half which they are all leaving TOMMORROW. They have girls from Canada and other places so they couldn't close earlier. PLEASE LETS NOT JUDGE THE OTHERS!!! LETS BE DON LCAF ZCHUS AND HASHEM WILL BE US DAN LCAF ZCHUS AND BRING MASHIACH!!
39
Jul 27, 2009 at 07:21 PM Anonymous Says:
My theory is - we are GUEST here, not the BALEI BATIM. So, even if the neighbors are starting up with the Skverer - they have to REMEMBER, we are in GOLUS and unfortunately till MOSHIACH comes we are only the GUEST and have to BEHAVE!When a frum YID does not obey orders - he is causing a CHILUL HASHEM - it's just so simple. So regardless of what all the facts are - just for disobeying Skver is ruining it for all frum Yiden. That's a mighty big AVAIRA!!!
40
Jul 27, 2009 at 09:08 PM formally Says:
not that simple
first;
Adding to the trouble was Saturday’s fire which consumed a three-story building that formerly housed Homowack staff.
The State Police are investigating it as arson, as the building was abandoned and utilities were turned off.
interesting
and
In a statement released late Tuesday, DOH said that it had cited Machne Bnos Square (the current name of the camp) "for numerous, persistent and serious violation of the State Sanitary Code that include inoperable/defective fire suppression and fire alarm systems, pervasive moisture problems throughout the facility from leaking roofs and plumbing systems that have caused significant mold growth in occupied and unoccupied areas of buildings, numerous electrical violations that include water flowing over electrical boxes from leaking pipes, inadequate supervision of children, failure to maintain and operate the on site (sic) sewage disposal system, failure to maintain disinfection of drinking water, failure to protect the drinking water well from contamination.
Did anybody here think that maybe just maybe the doh are trying to save lives.
Or is is hard you soem to imagine a goy or goyish agency looking out for the Jewish kids more that some yiddin who are running a business
41
Jul 28, 2009 at 05:51 AM CHRPLY Says:
You people just don't have a clue do you? you want to send your kids to camp, you pay your money and your all being used as pawns by greedy, selfish people of your own faith. They buy these properties, don't stick a dime in to them if they don't have to, try and get away with anything and everything just to make a buck, and who pays in the long run? you do, your kids do and your people as a whole does. it will take the majority of you to get your house in order before you can expect the world to accept you. and that means fitting into the world as it is instead of trying to live in your own world.....sholom
42
Aug 07, 2009 at 08:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Just to clear up some facts!
The DOH has not cited the camp with any violations, it is only the locals who have run to every agency to chase them out. In fact the DOH has asked to leave VOLUNTARY, on no basis.
The picture shown in the media are from the unoccupied buildings, the camp area is completely clean and safe with all required certificates.
The local media is well known for their ahavas chinum, so please go on and read more of it so you could comment and a bash a bit more.
”
that is just not true. I have been there. I can't believe anyone put a child in those conditions. Buildings codes exits to protect the general population. Why would someone open up a camp without getting the proper permits before they accept minor children?