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Jerusalem - Charedim Arrested as Shabbat Parking Lot Dispute Turns Violent

Published on: August 1, 2009 09:28 PM
By: Haaretz / Ynet / AFP / Jpost
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Security forces block haredim (Photo: Gil Yohanan)Security forces block haredim (Photo: Gil Yohanan)
Jerusalem - Hundreds of ultra-Orthodox gathered on Saturday at the intersection of Shivtei Yisrael and Hanevi’im streets in Jerusalem to protest against the opening of the Karta parking lot on Shabbat.

As if to remind us that amid the hullabaloo about the “child-starving mother” case, they had not forgotten their fight over the Shabbat opening of the Carta garage, 700 of haredim rioted in Jerusalem on Saturday evening over the parking lot, which has now been open for six successive Saturdays.

A secular group greeted lot’s visitors with flowers, cheering the police and taunting the protesters. At one point a fight erupted between the two sides, and police had to break things up.

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Fifteen people were arrested as several of the protesters tried to block the entrance to the parking lot, some of them lying down in the road in front of vehicles, and others attempted to break a police blockade near Shivtei Yisrael Street threw eggs and spat on officers, at the entrance to Mea She’arim.

A police officer was lightly wounded when he was bitten by a protester in the ultra-Orthodox neighborhood.
Not for the first time, the rioters shouted “Nazis” and “Jew haters” at both police and journalists. The protesters demanded they “go back to Germany.” The ultra-Orthodox men called an Ethiopian policeman “bitter chocolate” and “nigger” and told him to “go back to Ethiopia” or to go back to the cowshed.”

Security forces dispersed the rioters using water cannons and other means.

This was the most violent protest in two weeks, after demonstrations in the capital subsided during the fast day of Tisha B’Av, and after the ultra-Orthodox child who may have been starved by his mother was released from hospital.

 


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Read Comments (65)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Aug 01, 2009 at 08:52 PM Anonymous Says:

sick people . i guess tisha bav is meaningless to these charedi no goodnicks

2

 Aug 01, 2009 at 08:51 PM power up Says:

Clearly not the way to protest, but at the same time you can see the biased report how its written, how about actually saying why the orthodox jews are so upset? How about validating their argument??!!!

7

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:04 PM gevald Says:

oy vey, already the tzoros. when will they realize that they can't fight the israeli government. how do they think they will persuade the government to close the parking lot with violence? what a chilul hashem.

8

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:01 PM Anonymous Says:

These people need a life. If they had a job and responsibilities they wouldn't have time or desire to act like this. A busha for the Jews and makes people dislike Torah and frumkeit.

9

 Aug 01, 2009 at 08:50 PM American Chevroner Says:

as far as I know NO chevroner participated in these riots

10

 Aug 01, 2009 at 08:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Oh, I see they used water cannons today. OK...next stop, rubber bullets & tear gas.

11

 Aug 01, 2009 at 08:43 PM Anonymous Says:

whem will these riots stop? Ad mosai!

12

 Aug 01, 2009 at 08:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Oh, I am SO IMPRESSED with the true Ahavas Yisrael shown to dark-skinned JEWS. Chassidim saying these things, biting people, behaving like the animals they are? I am ashamed to be a Chassid. And some clowns here will no doubt say how do we know they are Jews anyway? Answer: A Bais Din has said so.

I propose the cops really get tough. Drench these animals like the rats they are with water cannons (the first good wash they probably will have had for a while!) & send them scurring back into their ratholes. They make me vomit.

13

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:10 PM P and P Says:

G'nik shoin with the "biased reporting" angle.Protests are fine, arguably even apropriate. Violence isn't. Why aren't more Rabbonim taking a stronger stance against these thugs ?

14

 Aug 01, 2009 at 08:38 PM Dag Says:

Compare: "A secular group greeted lot's visitors with flowers" ;

And

"Not for the first time, the rioters shouted "Nazis" and "Jew haters" at both police and journalists. The protesters demanded they "go back to Germany." The ultra-Orthodox men called an Ethiopian policeman "bitter chocolate" and "nigger" and told him to "go back to Ethiopia" or to go back to the cowshed."

15

 Aug 01, 2009 at 08:38 PM Anonymous Says:

And once again there is cause for chilul hashem in the name of chilul shabbos. How do these chasidim wake up in the morning feeling good about themselves when they are turning Israel into a dump over the chilul shabbos? Is this how we will change things? Is this what gedolim want us to do? I doubt it. The mediaplatering yidden all voer the world with this news is just horrible. Didn't we have enough bad negative exposure over the last three weeks and now this again?

To all the protestors your gantz meshugah because your causing thousands of polciemenn who are not frum to do more chilul shabbos because they have to keep the peace and make sure things do not get out of hand. So what on earth are you gaining?

Seforim say that before Moshiach comes the world will be meshugah! We see it now.

16

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
power up Says:

Clearly not the way to protest, but at the same time you can see the biased report how its written, how about actually saying why the orthodox jews are so upset? How about validating their argument??!!!

" you can see the biased report how its written, how about actually saying why the orthodox jews are so upset"

They can be upset all they want but this behavior is never the way to express their disagreement. The good news is that the police have finally decided to enforce the law and their use of water cannon and rubber bullets will hopefully force these Chareidim to back down and limit their future protests to chants and signs. The mayor and the large percentage of those living in Yerushalayim have said "no more" and the police will make sure that those who break the law will be punished severely.

17

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:13 PM Anonymous Says:

sick! how dare they call a yid a nazi!!!do they know what it means...how do they call a person of color chocolate, nigger how disgusting is this how frum yidden behave? shame on them!!!shame !!!shame!!! they think they are holy....how wrong how primitive they are....how far from torah these so called charaidem are!!!!

20

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
power up Says:

Clearly not the way to protest, but at the same time you can see the biased report how its written, how about actually saying why the orthodox jews are so upset? How about validating their argument??!!!

there is no validation PERIOD. what they are doing is against the very torah which you learn . Dont try to kosher a traif idea!

21

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:17 PM David Says:

Makes we want to be non frum sometimes.

22

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:25 PM Anonymous Says:

these guys are so wrong. cause a massive chillul hahshem, so ill mannered. enough is enough...i hope the policeman use rubber bullets on them next time!!!

23

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:25 PM Ther are 2 sides: Says:

firstly, remember that the secular reporters are biased against chassidim so that this may be completely exaggerated.
secondly, because one crazy person bit....or screamt horrible things doesn't mean that the other 798 protesters acted the same way... whenever you have a large crowd there will always be some lunatics.

in no way do i condone such barbaric behavior and those that act this way should definately be held responsible.

24

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Oh, I see they used water cannons today. OK...next stop, rubber bullets & tear gas.

if some one threw eggs and spit in your face what method would you use to get him away from you? you would probably stand there till you were covered with eggs and spit from head to toe , right? .

25

 Aug 01, 2009 at 09:25 PM Anonymous Says:

there are so many people who hate us in the world. why can't we try to get along. who are we to judge anyone. they don't want to be religious that is between them and gd. I am so upset its trebbile to see jews fighting with jews .

26

 Aug 01, 2009 at 10:00 PM Anonymous Says:

One has to stand up against Shabbos desecration. I don't know what really is going on in Yerushalayim, but, I am sure we are getting only a one sided anti chareidi view point. They should protest, but, quietly, non violently.

27

 Aug 01, 2009 at 10:31 PM long beach bochur Says:

Turn they're electricity , plumbing, and water off . Dont let them ride on buses or use the banks . Then they wont have the Zionist government at all.

28

 Aug 01, 2009 at 11:08 PM employment Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

These people need a life. If they had a job and responsibilities they wouldn't have time or desire to act like this. A busha for the Jews and makes people dislike Torah and frumkeit.

Do you want then to work on shabbos too ?

29

 Aug 01, 2009 at 11:06 PM Anonymous Says:

These people need a life. If they had a job and responsibilities they wouldn't have time or desire to act like this.

If they go to their jobs on shabbos they won't be moiche about chillul shabbos
Makes sense

30

 Aug 01, 2009 at 11:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #27  
long beach bochur Says:

Turn they're electricity , plumbing, and water off . Dont let them ride on buses or use the banks . Then they wont have the Zionist government at all.

right that makes a lot of sense. turn the electricity, water and plumbing off to the whole beis yisroel, mea shearurim, geula area b/c a couple people were violent????

31

 Aug 01, 2009 at 11:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Ther are 2 sides: Says:

firstly, remember that the secular reporters are biased against chassidim so that this may be completely exaggerated.
secondly, because one crazy person bit....or screamt horrible things doesn't mean that the other 798 protesters acted the same way... whenever you have a large crowd there will always be some lunatics.

in no way do i condone such barbaric behavior and those that act this way should definately be held responsible.

bs!!!bs!!! there is no bias...these guys behave like primitive animals...why everytime you dont like the truth what media outlets report its considered biased...lets face it they bare wild lunatics and thats what the media reports...this is a chilul hashem and evertime it pushes yidden away from yiddishkeit.....isnt chilul hashem worse then anything else.....shame on you...shame on them....dont post your bube meiases...

32

 Aug 01, 2009 at 10:12 PM Anonymous Says:

There is nothing in the laws of EY or the city of Yerushalayim that requires jews to be shomrei shabbos. We can all wish they would and should reach out to show the beauty of shabos kodesh, but if Yiddin don't want to observe, that is their choice in a democratic, non-theocratic society. Equally, the Chareidi have the right to peacefully protest, but any violence should be firmly surpressed.

33

 Aug 01, 2009 at 10:10 PM Anonymous Says:

i think its kind of sad how some people hate religion so much.''A secular group greeted lot's visitors with flowers, cheering the police and taunting the protesters.'' daven for them.

34

 Aug 02, 2009 at 12:47 AM Anonymous Says:

I would like to hear a report from the other side also before posting a comment, it ain't that simple.

35

 Aug 02, 2009 at 12:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Don't buy a word of this report. I witnessed too many of those protests.
never does any violence happen before the police uses brutal excessive force.

36

 Aug 02, 2009 at 12:31 AM kingsley the chuchem Says:

When African Americans had riots in Los Angeles and other cities- white Americans
reprisals took on the form of Moving to the suburbs and Newt Gingrich starting a counter movement for White America.. It ended welfare as we knew it in the US.
All the government has to say is that they will end the draft exemption status for any "violent protestors" at these demonstrations and hold fast. Most of these people do not take government support so that is not an avenue.
This will result in a large and catastrophic reprisal to the mostly innocent charedi populations in Israel. It mey happen in weeks, months or years but it will happen. When are all the chassidishe rebbes , to come out and protest the violence like the Mirer Rosh Yeshiva and Rav Hagaon moshe sternbuch had the courage to do???
This will ruin their communities years from now if not stopped by all the rebbes, right away. The frum Chareidi community must greet the Jews of the Parking Lot with drinks kugel and Chulent and counter these violent demonstartors. Tens of Thousands may protest Shabbos but not viloently!!

37

 Aug 02, 2009 at 05:04 AM Jerusalem Says:

WHH

Shame on all of you, really, hang your heads in shame! This country is run by gangsters and thugs, and for many years now has ensured that the long arm of the law sustained by foreign nations extends to the press as well. There is no so called "objective" journalism here in E.Y. If there were such a thing, where someone actually had the courage to report on the facts as they really are, there would be ramifications that are more suited to Islamic forms of justice rather than the comfortable western standards where issues can and are subjected to the rigor of debate. Don't trust anything from the organized press of E.Y. Don't believe a word of it. Look upon every word with a critical eye, and don't run to judge your brothers, jumping on them like they are carrion of the field. Most of these so called "demonstrators" have family lines that far predate the "State". They have endured terrible starvation, inhumane living conditions, pogroms by Arab mobs, racial profiling and suspension of human rights by the British, no civil liberties or civil rights, illegal Taxation and kidnapping for ransom, terrible and murderous police brutality, water rationing, a bucket a day for large families that wouldn't sustain your Teaneck swimming pools. Many were murdered in the fight to establish E.Y. so that you Jews in the U.S. could claim a homeland as your own. How dare you, most of you anyway, wage such insolent and ridiculous charges against them without insight and without understanding of the facts? They understand the situation here much better than anyone here on this forum , which, I can assure you wouldn't be considered more than its weight of a grain of salt by any one of these protesters. To hate and condemn is easy; much more difficult is to think. Where are the Wise? Do they simply disappear in the hour of need?

38

 Aug 02, 2009 at 04:24 AM Chalmer Says:

"All the government has to say is that they will end the draft exemption status for any "violent protestors" at these demonstrations and hold fast."

This won't work. The Yerushalmim don't get a draft exemption, they get a "ptur," usually based upon a fake doctor's evaluation. There is no way to revoke a ptur, since it's a one time thime

39

 Aug 02, 2009 at 06:55 AM Anonymous Says:

to all of you i dont know were you live but i am there every shabbes they do whats right to do coz it starts with a parking lot and ends with stores open and it helps they will closed soon you will see it cust them money every weekend

40

 Aug 02, 2009 at 06:40 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
Chalmer Says:

"All the government has to say is that they will end the draft exemption status for any "violent protestors" at these demonstrations and hold fast."

This won't work. The Yerushalmim don't get a draft exemption, they get a "ptur," usually based upon a fake doctor's evaluation. There is no way to revoke a ptur, since it's a one time thime

If they are strong and healthy enough to be out on a hot afternoon in fur hats and jackets marching and standing for hours, and sometimes fighting and throwing things, then aren't they healthy enough to serve prooving that any dr's note is invalid?

41

 Aug 02, 2009 at 06:37 AM Silent Hunter Says:

Reply to #37  
Jerusalem Says:

WHH

Shame on all of you, really, hang your heads in shame! This country is run by gangsters and thugs, and for many years now has ensured that the long arm of the law sustained by foreign nations extends to the press as well. There is no so called "objective" journalism here in E.Y. If there were such a thing, where someone actually had the courage to report on the facts as they really are, there would be ramifications that are more suited to Islamic forms of justice rather than the comfortable western standards where issues can and are subjected to the rigor of debate. Don't trust anything from the organized press of E.Y. Don't believe a word of it. Look upon every word with a critical eye, and don't run to judge your brothers, jumping on them like they are carrion of the field. Most of these so called "demonstrators" have family lines that far predate the "State". They have endured terrible starvation, inhumane living conditions, pogroms by Arab mobs, racial profiling and suspension of human rights by the British, no civil liberties or civil rights, illegal Taxation and kidnapping for ransom, terrible and murderous police brutality, water rationing, a bucket a day for large families that wouldn't sustain your Teaneck swimming pools. Many were murdered in the fight to establish E.Y. so that you Jews in the U.S. could claim a homeland as your own. How dare you, most of you anyway, wage such insolent and ridiculous charges against them without insight and without understanding of the facts? They understand the situation here much better than anyone here on this forum , which, I can assure you wouldn't be considered more than its weight of a grain of salt by any one of these protesters. To hate and condemn is easy; much more difficult is to think. Where are the Wise? Do they simply disappear in the hour of need?

You don't know what you are talking about. There are many in EY who are not charidim who don't act like this.

42

 Aug 02, 2009 at 07:16 AM Jerusalem Says:

WHH
To #41
Right! The claim of a more "civilized" and "enlightened" form of Judaism is the work of the SATAN to increase divisiveness amongst our Nation. You aren't like THOSE Jews, are you? And by the way, I live here, work here, and am proud to say Chareidi. We can meet and discuss the various difficulties you have with the history of Jerusalem, and E.Y. versus the current Matzav.

43

 Aug 02, 2009 at 07:13 AM art6991 Says:

what a chillull Hashem
that Ethiopian is a ger, a convert beloved of Hashem
when you abuse the King's most trusted servant, you cannot next expect preferential treatment (to put it lightly)
i am what you may call "modern orthodox" i wear clothes that are tznius, i go out, i have an occupation and speak several languages, i love IKsrael and though i may not agree with the government and it's choices, i think Israel has a lot to be proud of.
"entebbe" for example, how many yidden would have been killed if not for the courageous acts of Yoni Netanyahu and his troops, these are the people that the 'so frum' chareidi 'tzadikim' are calleing nazis!
i want them to think about the so called 'nazis' when the 'enemies' and 'jew haters' are on the front lines, risking their lives to make sure the chareidim sleep safe in their beds
i hate discrimination but everyone i know has had enough, when a Jew acts like this you are not supposed to justify it, you condemn it, he is not part of you.
the only way to help these righteous rioters is education, teaching them how to communicate with the wider Israeli public because discriminatory name calling, car smashing, garbage burning protests does not endear any one to the Chareidim.
so you don't want the carpark open? fine, organise a peaceful meeting with the developers, don't use it during the week, try and explain to the non frum israelis the meaning of shabbos!

44

 Aug 02, 2009 at 06:13 AM Jerusalem Says:

WHH

To #9 "American Chevroner" You wrote; "As far as I know NO chevroner participated in these riots."
You, my Friend, have a great deal to learn, and in all honesty I can tell you that these people demonstrating in Jerusalem against the breach of Sanctity proposed by the secular political agenda of which Birkat is merely an agent, indeed these people could teach you and your communities in Chevron a thing or two. In your communities where the lines of right and wrong are blurry and where quizzlings and malshim dwell next to you shoulder to shoulder (See the recent Soros report as reported by Arutz Sheva), how are you able to move even one step beyond simply holding the fragile and tenuous thread of Jewish existence in Chevron? Are there not skyscrapers going up every month funded by Saudi money and allowed by the government as long as the palms of the relevant officials are properly greased? Are there not degenerate "UN" inspectors dwelling on the street corners of Chevron with large insects tattooed over their eyes who speak arrogantly about human rights violations in German and in front of TV cameras? Did not the government use Mercenary forces with foreign passports, soldiers of fortune for hire, to expel the residents of Peace House on the road from Kiryat Arba to Hebron because the IDF soldiers refused to do this unholy task?(See Walter Bingham's report on the Peace House expulsions) Are your Caravan settlements in Hebron riddled with bulletholes from random shooting attacks by Arab snipers? How many Jews have been beaten and murdered in Hebron in the last ten years? Are you prevented from purchasing housing on the open market because of your Jewish religion? what law says no Jew is allowed to purchase property in Hebron, Eretz Yisroel?? Are you not forced to arm yourselves with machine guns in order to pray at the Machpelah? Even on Shabbos? What legitimate Jewish State would do this to you? Do you think you have a chance? What do the leaders of Hebron and Yesha propose to do under these untenable circumstances? do you think the government will rise to your cause? How can you sanctimoniously separate yourself from what is going on in Jerusalem, when you have many serious and at present hopelessly hefker issues facing you and your communities in Hebron? Do you know that the secular agenda is to Internationalize Jerusalem with all the worlds religions represented with equal say, equal power? For Shame! You have a lot to learn about what it really means to hold the lines from your Brothers in Jerusalem. They know an enemy when they see it.

45

 Aug 02, 2009 at 01:58 AM obamanation Says:

all u civelized people that say this is wrong and that is wrong. can u come up with a differant solution?!?! when do u think it is or isn't wright to do what they are doing. the problem is, is that the government does what what ever they want no matter what it is. happends to be that now its a shobbos issue. what will u say when they dig your grand parnts grave or some thing like that? will u than say they are nuts as well. this government are made up of jews with out torah witch the gemara says is worse than a goiy

46

 Aug 02, 2009 at 07:37 AM shmilku Says:

Reply to #37  
Jerusalem Says:

WHH

Shame on all of you, really, hang your heads in shame! This country is run by gangsters and thugs, and for many years now has ensured that the long arm of the law sustained by foreign nations extends to the press as well. There is no so called "objective" journalism here in E.Y. If there were such a thing, where someone actually had the courage to report on the facts as they really are, there would be ramifications that are more suited to Islamic forms of justice rather than the comfortable western standards where issues can and are subjected to the rigor of debate. Don't trust anything from the organized press of E.Y. Don't believe a word of it. Look upon every word with a critical eye, and don't run to judge your brothers, jumping on them like they are carrion of the field. Most of these so called "demonstrators" have family lines that far predate the "State". They have endured terrible starvation, inhumane living conditions, pogroms by Arab mobs, racial profiling and suspension of human rights by the British, no civil liberties or civil rights, illegal Taxation and kidnapping for ransom, terrible and murderous police brutality, water rationing, a bucket a day for large families that wouldn't sustain your Teaneck swimming pools. Many were murdered in the fight to establish E.Y. so that you Jews in the U.S. could claim a homeland as your own. How dare you, most of you anyway, wage such insolent and ridiculous charges against them without insight and without understanding of the facts? They understand the situation here much better than anyone here on this forum , which, I can assure you wouldn't be considered more than its weight of a grain of salt by any one of these protesters. To hate and condemn is easy; much more difficult is to think. Where are the Wise? Do they simply disappear in the hour of need?

you talk like you know it all in the meantime youre writing is a tottal fabrications of youre imagination perverted as it is theese demonstrators are nothing more then spoiled brats who dont work for a living they have no concept of what it is to make a living everything is given to them like they are crippled in a way they are, they are emotionally crippled , i am laughting at the nonsense you wrote here youre the one who isnt thinking youre rambling only shows you extreeme hate you need help fast di shoite vus di bist

47

 Aug 02, 2009 at 07:32 AM bleeding bursht Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

sick! how dare they call a yid a nazi!!!do they know what it means...how do they call a person of color chocolate, nigger how disgusting is this how frum yidden behave? shame on them!!!shame !!!shame!!! they think they are holy....how wrong how primitive they are....how far from torah these so called charaidem are!!!!

I don't know if the charedim are right or wrong . In world war 2 there were ships that were turned back to nazI germany (or were told not to come ) because of some political ramblings . I call this nazi'ism .and I also call the excesive force used on charedim defending the abishters heiligeh shabos in the holy city of yerushalaim sadistic and yes like *nazis*

48

 Aug 02, 2009 at 01:23 AM Anonymous Says:

I love the guys who talk about ahavas yisrael but have non to share with the protesters in the gemarah they have a frase for that it goes like this tol Korah mibein ainecha vd"l

49

 Aug 02, 2009 at 01:22 AM Anonymous Says:

And more chillul hashem .these retards need to get a life and stop screwing things up .they r such aholes it pisses the hell out of me

50

 Aug 02, 2009 at 08:09 AM shmilku Says:

Reply to #45  
obamanation Says:

all u civelized people that say this is wrong and that is wrong. can u come up with a differant solution?!?! when do u think it is or isn't wright to do what they are doing. the problem is, is that the government does what what ever they want no matter what it is. happends to be that now its a shobbos issue. what will u say when they dig your grand parnts grave or some thing like that? will u than say they are nuts as well. this government are made up of jews with out torah witch the gemara says is worse than a goiy

you are worst then the government without torah better be a human bieng then someone who rebeles against an established order even if the government doesnt do thing as the torah says its better then the chareidim who prefess that they are the real jews and go against the torah they are hippocrites theese chareaidim at the least as a jew it is extreemly embarrising to see such insane behaviour on the part of the so called ultra orthodox youre whole shabbas is worthless with this kind of idiotic behaviour yes the civilized world looks at it with disgust and you better listen to the civilized world youre thinking is perverted youre so brainwashed that you cant think straight you really think that youre way of seeing it is the right way? that shows how far youre gone better come to youre senses before its late zai nishr kain nar hob nisht kain tszar you understand

51

 Aug 02, 2009 at 08:02 AM Avrohom Abba Says:

Shame on these fake Charedim!
They are chillul Hashemniks.
They are show offs who will only push more people away for Torah.
Feh!

52

 Aug 02, 2009 at 07:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
bleeding bursht Says:

I don't know if the charedim are right or wrong . In world war 2 there were ships that were turned back to nazI germany (or were told not to come ) because of some political ramblings . I call this nazi'ism .and I also call the excesive force used on charedim defending the abishters heiligeh shabos in the holy city of yerushalaim sadistic and yes like *nazis*

what about attacking people and destroying their property because they hold different religious beliefs than you? is that not nazi-like too?

53

 Aug 02, 2009 at 09:36 AM Anonymous Says:

the police should throw such people into the sea

54

 Aug 02, 2009 at 09:31 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
Anonymous Says:

what about attacking people and destroying their property because they hold different religious beliefs than you? is that not nazi-like too?

No, Nazism was the belief and practice that an entire people should be eradicated REGARDLESS of their degree of religious practice. To equate the non-Haredi who oppose certain Haredi practices with Nazis is horrendous.

How many of those same Jewish policemen may have lost parents, grandparents, extended families to the Nazis??? The restraint of the government is obviously BECAUSE the Haredim are Jews!!!

. If they were Arabs and committed the same offenses, they'd be locked in jail, their family homes would be bulldozed and they'd all be sitting behind a 300 mile long wall!

55

 Aug 02, 2009 at 09:50 AM thinker Says:

sometimes i wonder if yiddin acted like this in the shtetl- validating much of the anti semiism

56

 Aug 02, 2009 at 10:07 AM Truth in Jerusalem Says:

Just got a first hand report from Yerushalayim, This article is absurd and totally twisted.
First of all, the violence or rioting usually takes place after the demonstration is over, and while thousands and thousands of people are demonstrating, those so called violence or rioting is being done by a few dozen youngsters.
the so called violence is a result and directly inflicted by the Israeli police, they use unbelievable force and police brutality of the worst form.
It's "routine procedure" for the police to come on horses with batons and huge sticks banging on the heads of protesters (may believe as to "control traffic"), tear gas and strong water cannons is routine for those uncivilized Jerusalem police, they regularly take people to arrest, and after putting them in shackles they would still put the handcuffed guy in choke position till he turns blue or white, pulling people by the feet dragging their heads on the rough floors, and much much more.
Then comes the corrupt Israeli press, that are known with their extra "love" to charedim, and twist the report crying with crocodile tears: the charedim were violent against the "poor" police officers.
Shame on all defending the monsters and brutal civil right predators, and opening their mouth against innocent charedi people.

57

 Aug 02, 2009 at 10:25 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #56  
Truth in Jerusalem Says:

Just got a first hand report from Yerushalayim, This article is absurd and totally twisted.
First of all, the violence or rioting usually takes place after the demonstration is over, and while thousands and thousands of people are demonstrating, those so called violence or rioting is being done by a few dozen youngsters.
the so called violence is a result and directly inflicted by the Israeli police, they use unbelievable force and police brutality of the worst form.
It's "routine procedure" for the police to come on horses with batons and huge sticks banging on the heads of protesters (may believe as to "control traffic"), tear gas and strong water cannons is routine for those uncivilized Jerusalem police, they regularly take people to arrest, and after putting them in shackles they would still put the handcuffed guy in choke position till he turns blue or white, pulling people by the feet dragging their heads on the rough floors, and much much more.
Then comes the corrupt Israeli press, that are known with their extra "love" to charedim, and twist the report crying with crocodile tears: the charedim were violent against the "poor" police officers.
Shame on all defending the monsters and brutal civil right predators, and opening their mouth against innocent charedi people.

The first hand report I heard during previous riots was that a couple young men would light dumpsters on fire and disappear. Only once the police and firemen arrived would the rioters pour onto the streets.

58

 Aug 02, 2009 at 10:22 AM Police Brutality Says:

Reply to #56  
Truth in Jerusalem Says:

Just got a first hand report from Yerushalayim, This article is absurd and totally twisted.
First of all, the violence or rioting usually takes place after the demonstration is over, and while thousands and thousands of people are demonstrating, those so called violence or rioting is being done by a few dozen youngsters.
the so called violence is a result and directly inflicted by the Israeli police, they use unbelievable force and police brutality of the worst form.
It's "routine procedure" for the police to come on horses with batons and huge sticks banging on the heads of protesters (may believe as to "control traffic"), tear gas and strong water cannons is routine for those uncivilized Jerusalem police, they regularly take people to arrest, and after putting them in shackles they would still put the handcuffed guy in choke position till he turns blue or white, pulling people by the feet dragging their heads on the rough floors, and much much more.
Then comes the corrupt Israeli press, that are known with their extra "love" to charedim, and twist the report crying with crocodile tears: the charedim were violent against the "poor" police officers.
Shame on all defending the monsters and brutal civil right predators, and opening their mouth against innocent charedi people.

You are so right, I once witnessed a case when a police officer at a protest pulled a yungerman in choke position for blocks, this yungerman opened his mouth shaking and grasping for air, then the officer gave him a brutal kick, this choking yungerman couldn't catch his breath, so he tried to bite the officers dirty hand off his throat, then the officers "understood his own language" went a bit looser, and threw him into a police truck like a bag of trash head first.
Shame on those brutal officers, supposed to watch over the citizens, and abusing them instead.

59

 Aug 02, 2009 at 10:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

bs!!!bs!!! there is no bias...these guys behave like primitive animals...why everytime you dont like the truth what media outlets report its considered biased...lets face it they bare wild lunatics and thats what the media reports...this is a chilul hashem and evertime it pushes yidden away from yiddishkeit.....isnt chilul hashem worse then anything else.....shame on you...shame on them....dont post your bube meiases...

You are right, these "guys" = the Israeli police behaves like loose beasts and animals in a jungle, no rules no justice, just hitting and arresting whom they wish, throwing tear gas at women, children sick and old people, wounding numerous people with their weapons for standing on foot on the road when the traffic light just changed.
Those mishtara officers appear like plain wild lunatics with a uniform.
It's just a chillul Hashem that they have the chutzpa to call themselves a jewish state, shame on them!!

60

 Aug 02, 2009 at 10:12 AM jancsi Says:

in my opinpinion these chareidim think they are the smartest, the opposite is true they are so overcome by emotion that they are incapable of rational thinking and that is the root of all this rioting the tragedy is they cant admit it to themselfs the truth hurts all their lifes they were brainwashed into thinking their was is the only way to being religious and everyone else is fake or not really religious to change overnight is impossible someone needs to speak with their leaders before theese riots become even worse their isolation from the real world is working against them they actually think their world is the only way sad but true

61

 Aug 02, 2009 at 11:03 AM jancsi Says:

Reply to #59  
Anonymous Says:

You are right, these "guys" = the Israeli police behaves like loose beasts and animals in a jungle, no rules no justice, just hitting and arresting whom they wish, throwing tear gas at women, children sick and old people, wounding numerous people with their weapons for standing on foot on the road when the traffic light just changed.
Those mishtara officers appear like plain wild lunatics with a uniform.
It's just a chillul Hashem that they have the chutzpa to call themselves a jewish state, shame on them!!

youre the perfect prove youre hate of the israeli establishment everything that make it up is tottal absolute and this is the biggest problem you are so blinded by youre hate that youre incapable of thinking rationally everyone with reasonable thinking see you the chareidim as lunatics but youre blinded by youre hate so think its the opposite this is where the problem lies also who in their right mind would go and demonstrate if what you write is the case no one in their right mind would put themselfs through all theese beatings youre the biggest lier and you lie to youreselfs youre deception is a no brainer everyone sees trough you di shoite vus di bist

62

 Aug 02, 2009 at 12:35 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #23  
Ther are 2 sides: Says:

firstly, remember that the secular reporters are biased against chassidim so that this may be completely exaggerated.
secondly, because one crazy person bit....or screamt horrible things doesn't mean that the other 798 protesters acted the same way... whenever you have a large crowd there will always be some lunatics.

in no way do i condone such barbaric behavior and those that act this way should definately be held responsible.

If you are going to protest as one group, you will be judged as one group. It is that simple, and rightfully so. As they say, "if you sleep with a dog, you're going to get fleas". Peaceful protesters would stand alongside the parking lot and try to explain to people why they are there. Peaceful protesters accept that there will be naysayers who will come along and "taunt" them... they remain peaceful and take the high-ground.

Such behavior makes me sick. The very idea that one yid could look at another and call him "nigger" honestly makes me feel sick to my stomach. Only the lowest of the lowest scum walking this planet would use such a degrading term for another human being... let alone a fellow yid. That kind of hatred has no place in a Torah life, and anyone who could be so hateful is not living a Torah life... they are phonies who are just going through the motions.

The real problem for me is that the gedolim in E"Y are not taking a firm stand against this. For now, these protests should be 100% stopped until a different plan can be formulated. I am very quickly losing respect for many of the gedolim who support these riots. Do they even realize that they are pushing frum yidden away from them at this point?

63

 Aug 02, 2009 at 12:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
employment Says:

Do you want then to work on shabbos too ?

Wouldn't be a bad idea. At least they'd be working one day a week, and be parasites on only the remaining six.

64

 Aug 02, 2009 at 02:24 PM Anonymous Says:

if the police would not show up by these protests, there would be NO violence!

65

 Aug 02, 2009 at 12:04 PM Jerusalem Says:

WHH
Shalom and Blessings Shmilku #46! I am #'s 37, 42,and 44. I can see I speak to an unarmed man so I will try to explain it carefully and simply for the many challenging misconceptions that inspire such vitriolic and hateful thoughts towards me.
#1. The Mea Shearim, Beit Ungaria, Beis Yisroel and other surrounding communities predate the State of Israel.
#2. The land that their dwellings are built on were purchased privately in the form of Trusts in order to maintain the sanctity of the Halacha.
#3. Few people who live there actually own their own home but pay a small fee every month to the Trust of whatever neighborhood they live in. Its sort of like rent but isn't the same legal status.
#4. Most of the residents fiercely oppose any breach in the Sanctity of Jerusalem
#5. It is due to the existence of these Trusts that gives Jerusalem its unique and distinctly Jewish character.
#6. The families that live there also work, and might I add, work hard, although strictly within the Torah State framework.
#7. Without their commitment to the Holy Torah, the Jewishness of this city would collapse.
#8. I stand by every statement I made and can back up every statement with primary sources. Anyone who lives in Jerusalem can visit the archives in the basement of the Iryah for an exhaustive collection of letters, and primary source material predating the State of Israel, as well as documents freely available for public perusal in the collections of the National Library.
#9. I work as a writer and an analyst here in Jerusalem. I am also Chareidi.
#10. You appear to have seriously impaired judgment, although one must have mercy on the many feeble minded amongst us, as this forum so eloquently illustrates.
I wish you Blessings of Peace and Abundant Joy which is your sacred inheritance, and I remain here, in the Holy Land, The Land of Your Fathers and mine.

66

 Aug 02, 2009 at 11:43 AM no no no Says:

Reply to #52  
Anonymous Says:

what about attacking people and destroying their property because they hold different religious beliefs than you? is that not nazi-like too?

Destroying * goverment* property is a terible thing but is not nazi like *this is the only language the isreali goverment understands * when there is a problem arisres between charadim and secular jews

67

 Aug 02, 2009 at 11:40 AM anonymous Says:

Reply to #58  
Police Brutality Says:

You are so right, I once witnessed a case when a police officer at a protest pulled a yungerman in choke position for blocks, this yungerman opened his mouth shaking and grasping for air, then the officer gave him a brutal kick, this choking yungerman couldn't catch his breath, so he tried to bite the officers dirty hand off his throat, then the officers "understood his own language" went a bit looser, and threw him into a police truck like a bag of trash head first.
Shame on those brutal officers, supposed to watch over the citizens, and abusing them instead.

If this ":yungerman" would have been sitting with a gemorah maybe no choking woud have accurred

68

 Aug 02, 2009 at 03:54 PM peacefull diaogue Says:

Reply to #62  
PMO Says:

If you are going to protest as one group, you will be judged as one group. It is that simple, and rightfully so. As they say, "if you sleep with a dog, you're going to get fleas". Peaceful protesters would stand alongside the parking lot and try to explain to people why they are there. Peaceful protesters accept that there will be naysayers who will come along and "taunt" them... they remain peaceful and take the high-ground.

Such behavior makes me sick. The very idea that one yid could look at another and call him "nigger" honestly makes me feel sick to my stomach. Only the lowest of the lowest scum walking this planet would use such a degrading term for another human being... let alone a fellow yid. That kind of hatred has no place in a Torah life, and anyone who could be so hateful is not living a Torah life... they are phonies who are just going through the motions.

The real problem for me is that the gedolim in E"Y are not taking a firm stand against this. For now, these protests should be 100% stopped until a different plan can be formulated. I am very quickly losing respect for many of the gedolim who support these riots. Do they even realize that they are pushing frum yidden away from them at this point?

Would you also want nice peaceful demonstrations and dialogue if after 120 your body was in danger of being chopped up and your organs used for science etc or while they dig up your ancestors graves would you also want to have discussions and meetings while the bones are sold to the highest bidder while you get the runaround by the isreali antiquities department or would you rather then have the charedim causing a so called cillul hashem so you can be buried like a yid and your grandparents and a few tanoim and amoraim can rest in peace and dignity

69

 Aug 02, 2009 at 04:31 PM Anonymous Says:

looks like some people just don't believe that the BIGGEST SIN is chillel hashem

70

 Aug 02, 2009 at 07:05 PM Wow Says:

First of all, Kol Hakavod for those Chassidim getting out from their comfortable homes and going out there to save Jerusalaim from this disastrous Chillul Shabbes!
Unfortunately personally i think, they could have achieved more by offering the police and people in to their lechtige Shabbes homes and singing zemiroth with the officers- that might have worked a bit better- But hey, whom am i to judge them? Sitting here comfotable from abroad adding my comments is surely not going to help to avoid chillul shabbes. So to all of those chassidim, my respect for trying something- and to all those that started loosing their heads to call the police nazis etc. : This surely wont bring Mashiach back!!

71

 Aug 02, 2009 at 07:42 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #68  
peacefull diaogue Says:

Would you also want nice peaceful demonstrations and dialogue if after 120 your body was in danger of being chopped up and your organs used for science etc or while they dig up your ancestors graves would you also want to have discussions and meetings while the bones are sold to the highest bidder while you get the runaround by the isreali antiquities department or would you rather then have the charedim causing a so called cillul hashem so you can be buried like a yid and your grandparents and a few tanoim and amoraim can rest in peace and dignity

Are we 12 year old children playing a game of "would you rather"? Would you rather a raw egg or a raw liver? This kind of thing is not a joke, and should not be taken as one.

Who is chopping up bodies here? We are talking about acceptable behavior and unacceptable behavior. We are talking about a parking lot. Stopping people from parking there will not stop them from driving, so what exactly is the point of all this?

Do you really think that frei yidden are going to look at a group of violent nutcases throwing rocks and hurling racial slurs as "defenders of yiddishkeit"? Do you think anyone will be brought closer to Torah this way? If not, then what is the point of these riots? What is the point of sacrificing our dignity and integrity? It serves only to feed those among us who are driven to commit violence. Now more than ever I realize that these people are nothing but phonies. These people stand for violence and conflict - no different from the PLO.

If anything, more people are being pushed away. What do I tell frei parents whose kinds are slowly getting the derech? Parents were scared already, they tell me all the time "I don't want my son involved with fanatics". What do I tell a mother who looks at me after hearing someone from our community use the word "nigger"? How do I defend this? On the other hand, how do I say that these yidden are 100% anti-Torah and nothing more than purveyors of sinas chinam when they look like me? These animals are pushing people away from Torah and for that they should be condemned at every turn.

I find it humiliating that people assume from my dress that I am part of this phony group of yidden. I am embarassed by every single chillul H" they make. I have never felt this kind of disgust toward other yidden in my life it honestly makes me ill.

72

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