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Jerusalem - Call to Haredi Men, Women to Use Separate Sidewalks

Published on: August 17, 2009 05:40 PM
By:  Ynet
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Jerusalem - A group of ultra-Orthodox men took to the streets of the haredi neighborhoods in Jerusalem and called on the public to adhere to a complete separation between men and women in certain areas of the city.

The activists toured the streets near Geula neighborhood in taxicabs and announced, using megaphones that on some streets men and women should walk on opposite sides of the road during the weekend.

According to a resident of the neighborhood, Avraham Cohen, those responsible for the initiative belong to the extremist Neturei Karta stream. “The leading rabbis of the ultra-Orthodox public do not support this initiative,” he said. “This group decided to on their won accord go into the neighborhoods and set new modesty codes.”

However, eyewitnesses said that although the segregation had not been sanctioned by prominent spiritual authorities, most passersby heeded the call last Saturday. “During the noon hours when women go out for a stroll and the men go to the synagogue, men and women walked on different sidewalks,” one resident said.

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But the same level of separation was reportedly not observed on the busy Friday, when the streets are regularly packed with crowds.



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1

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:58 PM shas yid Says:

did they have this in the gemoro times?
we can safely assume they didn't from the stories scattered around shas

2

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:57 PM Anonymous Says:

if they don;t want to see woman,don't go out on the streets. why don't they put on a pair of sunglasses!

3

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:57 PM bronx Bubby Says:

I hope this is a joke.

4

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:55 PM Mullah Omar Says:

In the history of Yiddishkeit, was there ever such a takanah? Seems like the Neturei Karta are taking their cues from the Taliban. Given their close ties to Iran that makes sense.

5

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:16 PM Anonymous Says:

I would like to say that my family (male and females) were at this exact location this past shabbos and saw nothing of the sort. On the contrary many families were walking together as always.
So as the rest of the story goes....

6

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:11 PM Anonymous Says:

seperate houses too I hope.

7

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:09 PM Anonymous Says:

I hope this can be nipped in the bud before it gets out of hand. For now they may just be "asking" but its hard to imagine that there won't be some element of intimidation. When will people learn that they don't own the streets and the sidewalks.

8

 Aug 17, 2009 at 04:59 PM Anonymous Says:

These idiots are going to trigger a civil war in Jeruselam. Even the mainstream hareidi leaders think they are fools and hopefully they will speak out in advance rather than waiting until after some women get pushed off the sidewalks next shabbos. It appears they have truly lost control of their senses and wish to create theiw own version of Kabul here in EY.

9

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:56 PM yankel Says:

I live in new square and we have it for many years and its great, you can walk to shul on shabbos and don't have to make zig zag and walk between crowds

10

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:55 PM Anonymous Says:

looks like they're copying New Square-all streets there are divided. One side for men, the other side for women. I was once there for a wedding and couldn't understand all the dirty looks we were getting until my friend saw the ''menner zeit'' sign.

11

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
shas yid Says:

did they have this in the gemoro times?
we can safely assume they didn't from the stories scattered around shas

did they have mechitsos in the gemoro times?
we can safely assume they didn't from the stories scattered around shas

12

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:06 PM Anonymous Says:

some1 walkd on lady side in skver, ppl started screaming@ him, he answers im going 2a wedding, ppl: go on men side! he answer no im from the kallas side

13

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:03 PM YY Says:

In new square they have this rule. the street lamps are posted with orange signs stating women side and blue sign for men side. the problem is when it comes to Yom Tov or the rabbi's wedding There's alot of mix coz the out of towners aren't used to this. i usually end up walking in the center of the street with a bunch of mixed men and ladies. as the joke there goes a box lady fingers were found on the men side...

14

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:02 PM Anonymous Says:

If you have ever been there in meah sharim extremely narrow sidewalks and a one way narrow street when buses are flying through the croweds have to push themselves in to the narrow sidewalk but in skver shtetel where they have regular size streets and sidewalks and they have it for years the segregated streets

15

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:49 PM Anonymous Says:

I have been to Skwere and noticed the separation. I strongly commend them. in a closely knit area like there, it makes a big difference.

16

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:45 PM Anonymous Says:

These people push the Ikrim of the Torah aside and focus on stupidities instead. As another commenter said it is evident from recordings in the Gemorah that these "holy takanos"weren't in place in the times of the Tanoim and Amoraim. But yes,we're gonna be better than them,right?!! Why don't we try bettering ourselves before imposing all sorts of silly things on everyone. If you wish walk where you want but don't tell everyone else what to do. We never saw our Gedolim do the things these people want to see.

17

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:31 PM Anonymous Says:

I too hope this is a joke.. Who are they to say what is allowed and what not, aren't they ones that are buttering up to the Iranians men and women, and you see them
mingle or rather rubbing against anti-Israel women. They have the same idioligy like the Taliban, everybody has to behave and belief like they do, (muslim-its either you believe in the koran or die).

Who do they think they are, they write their own Torah and interpet they way they want. (i.e chillul Hashem is not in their Torah) I would put them in the same catagory as the Reform Jews, no different.

Somehow i get the feeling that they hate themselves and what they stand for, so they make noise, not to focus on themselves. Even at the expense of their brothers and sisters of Israel,

One end you have the Nutarai Karta, the other hand u have the Toldon Aaron, what is wrong with them, did they forget that they are in Golus, if they are soooo worried other people Yirus Shamayim like chillul shabbos and want to do something then do the right thing get a voice in the Knesset, go vote,

Time to do something constructive stand together and fight as a team...and hopefully bring Mashich quick.






18

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:28 PM Oy Vey Says:

On Shabbos you don't have to walk on the sidewalk, there are no buses. During the week, it isn't practical, stores being on both sides of the street. Maybe they can have women's hours and men's hours, so women and men can walk on both sides of the street unrestricted. And they can have hours for mixed for those who want it that way.

19

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:26 PM Anonymous Says:

these pepole are realy sick is not the word!!!!!!!!

20

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:22 PM tzoorba Says:

Chadoshim mikorov bau. Col hamosif goreah.

The kanoim with no daas Torah are implementing ridiculous chumros. I hope that the Torahdik olam doesn't get sucked in by them.

21

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:56 PM Anonymous Says:

If the man or woman live on the opposite gender side of the street how do they leave or enter their house without violating this rule?

22

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:21 PM smile Says:

"frum eza galuch n erlich eza yid"

23

 Aug 17, 2009 at 07:00 PM lazer Says:

#10 please dont fabricate stories ,if one happens to go in square on the opposite side nobody pounces on him,or gives dirty looks on him AND ESPECIALLY A GUEST.if you got a dirty look it was probably for some thing else. but my feeling is you just want to dramatize this issue and if thats the case its not right to on the chesbon of such precious people.

24

 Aug 17, 2009 at 06:09 PM professor Says:

while i don't follow rules like these, i can understand them. the sidewalks are narrow, and on weekends, when access to stores are not necessary, people can walk in a more modest manner so as not to bump into people of the opposite sex. This can also deter teens from fraternizing in a subtle manner.

25

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
shas yid Says:

did they have this in the gemoro times?
we can safely assume they didn't from the stories scattered around shas

Not that I'm supporting this new idea, but just to clarify u, in the Gemura's tzeiten women weren't out in the street as we are todays days. Furthermore, women were dressed in full long head coverings that covered everything from the hair till the toes. Again, its not that I'm in favor of this view I just want you and other ppl to understand what it was like in the days of our gemura

26

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:47 PM Anonymous Says:

There's "frum" and there's "crum". This is definitely "crum"

Anyway, if the Neturei Karta don't even believe in Israel, what are they doing there telling people what to do? They're bored to death doing nothing so they have to think up something to do with their time.

27

 Aug 17, 2009 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
Anonymous Says:

Not that I'm supporting this new idea, but just to clarify u, in the Gemura's tzeiten women weren't out in the street as we are todays days. Furthermore, women were dressed in full long head coverings that covered everything from the hair till the toes. Again, its not that I'm in favor of this view I just want you and other ppl to understand what it was like in the days of our gemura

Please don't make believe you know anything about jewish customs and culture in the time of the talmud. There has NEVER been any prohibition (then or now) on women walking in the streets of EY or any other location where yidden lived (although I'm certain there are a few am ha'oretzim such as yourself and those hareidim depicted in the article) who would have us believe there was such an issur. Perhaps you are thinking a about the islamic laws under Shariah where a woman cannot leave her home without her husband's permission.

28

 Aug 17, 2009 at 07:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Mullah Omar Says:

In the history of Yiddishkeit, was there ever such a takanah? Seems like the Neturei Karta are taking their cues from the Taliban. Given their close ties to Iran that makes sense.

(reply to # 1 & 4 ) in the old times women dident go out on the street like today the Rambam says that women were goning out to the street only once a month so they dident need to make takunas, & second you can not compare how women are dressed today to the old times.

29

 Aug 17, 2009 at 07:27 PM mr613 Says:

they should also impose seperate hours for shopping at the stores/ Markolet
not ! This seems a little overboard

30

 Aug 17, 2009 at 07:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
yankel Says:

I live in new square and we have it for many years and its great, you can walk to shul on shabbos and don't have to make zig zag and walk between crowds

"I live in new square and we have it for many years and its great, you can walk to shul on shabbos and don't have to make zig zag and walk between crowds"

You must be joking. Even the Skevre rebbe,Z'tl, would not have issued such a stupid takanah and if one of his gabboism were to have decreed such a rule in the rebbe's name, he would no longer be living in NS.


31

 Aug 17, 2009 at 07:20 PM bmos Says:

This is crumkite not frumkite. We have made this a religion of chumros not halacha.

32

 Aug 17, 2009 at 05:20 PM Anonymous Says:

what do the coupels do if they want to take a walk!!!lol

33

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:04 PM Treat Women Like Queens Says:

It is amazing that there are 31 comments so far and no one mentioned that Women should be treated like Ladies & Queens. It is no wonder that there are so many divorces. It is no wonder that there are problems in marriages. It is sick! So many are dogs & animals when it comes to treating women - especially their wives, like true Queens!

What happened to the Women being treated like an 'Eishet Chayil'? What happened to the concept of Women being the rock & support in the marriage? Where the h** are the 'rabbis" on these issues? Are they too busy abusing wives / Women themselves? Are they too busy sweeping divorce cases under the rug? Abusive relationships? Are they too busy being involved in money laundering, swindling, lying, cheating? Are they too busy with Lipa, Indian wigs, Internet & Cell phones? Kashrut Scandals?

Folks, these 'rabbis' are a joke, and should not be listening to nor tolerated. It is a case of the blind leading the blind, and the time has come to get rid of this cancer! Stand up for Women! Stand up for the amazing things they do. Treat them with R - E S - P - E - C - T! Stop being chauvinistic animals & pigs!

34

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

(reply to # 1 & 4 ) in the old times women dident go out on the street like today the Rambam says that women were goning out to the street only once a month so they dident need to make takunas, & second you can not compare how women are dressed today to the old times.

Rambam lived in an Islamic country. He did not live in the time of the Gemora.

35

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:38 PM knowitall Says:

R. Yaakov Kaminetsky, ZTL, would regularly greet nuns on his way to shul. He also regularly greeted an old Irish woman. It turned out that her son was on the zoning board. When a Yeshiva needed some help, he helped and said that his mother was so happy when R. Yaakov greeted her. I guess this is the end of civility. goes together with rock throwing and burning garbage.

36

 Aug 17, 2009 at 08:14 PM Heimishe Mamma Says:

You know I was in Eretz Yisroel recently and went to shop in Geulah Erev Shabbos. Truthfully the narrow streets were so crowded I was completely overwhelmed,frum men and women were cramped together like sardines!! I was shocked how bad it was! Nothing like BP or Willi, so if you havent experienced it DONT TALK!! Literally people were on top of each other mamish men women, bucherim, girls...let me tell you its not such a bad idea having the men and women in the Geulah neighborhood on other sides.......and I am a very open minded person..its just that I was never in such a crowd in the middle of the street except maybe in the NY subways rushhour time...... I was extremly uncomfortable!!

37

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

some1 walkd on lady side in skver, ppl started screaming@ him, he answers im going 2a wedding, ppl: go on men side! he answer no im from the kallas side

Good joke!!!! I enjoyed that one.


38

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Mechitzes, takones, why don't they teach these people how to control your thoughts and minds than you don't need any of these barriers. You think people on a regular bus having a simple conversation are having the same machshoves as the people on the michitse buses when the curtain opens a halve inch? To much is also no good. Feeds the yetsher horo just as much.

39

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:24 PM Barzilai Says:

Rav Matisyahu Solomon says this was the common practice in Kelm. Not Chelm, people. There was a town named Kelm, where the Talmud Torah was, where Reb Yakov Kamenetzki learned for a while, Reb Simcha Zissel Ziv was the Rosh Yeshiva, Reb Doniel Movshover, that Kelm.

40

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Wow, those streets and sidewalks do look awfully narrow. However, no one forces people to live in these densely packed areas. If the risk of bumping into someone is a problem for you, don't choose these areas as your home. It's like buying a house next to a dairy farm and then complaining about the odor.

41

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:06 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

The fact that men and women who call themselves frum live in the same house is a disgrace. Only true frumme yiddin would live al pi teireh with the men living in the upstairs of a house and the women living in basements and garages.

And all this mixed seating at the shabbos tables is also a shrekliche matziv and a shandeh and a disgrace and the true teiredicke yeeden should never have mixed seating at homes. The women should eat in the kitchen lchatchileh or bdi eved they could eat the leftovers after the men beltch, I mean bentch. All this disgusting menuveldicke pritzus is mamish a shandeh. Oy!

Maybe instead of separate sides of the street for men and women, we should only let men walk on the streets from 6 AM to 10 PM, and women can only walk on streets from 10 PM to 6 AM. That could work too. Come to think of it, now, why do women need to walk the streets? Only the machsheyfas walk the streets. That's it! Women should no longer be allowed outside. It could only lead to the men going insane and unable to control their urges, the men would come to sin because women are outdoors. So keep the women inside!

Of course lets not worry about the silly issues like spousal abuse, drug abuse, porn addiction, homosexuality, gambling, stealing and all the other nonsense that has eroded our culture and society. Let's just focus on the real issues like this one.

42

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:00 PM (wo)men are people Says:

Soon there will be separate subway cars for males and females. Every home must have a men's entrance and a separate women's entrance ( in the back yard). Cars must have complete mechitzohs.too. Are the Jewish women walking out in the street in their swimwear or underwear? Here in NYC no one should ever be permitted to walk on any sidewalk,because of the way the people 'dress'.Every home should have a separate 'bathroom' for men and another for women.

43

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:14 PM Anonymous Says:

In reality you don't have to worry because most women look like and dress almost like men anyway, black dress, black shoes, same size, so what can you see in case you do want to look ?? if they can get seperate sidewalks in manhattan, that would be a different story

44

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:12 PM truth Says:

Reply to #33  
Treat Women Like Queens Says:

It is amazing that there are 31 comments so far and no one mentioned that Women should be treated like Ladies & Queens. It is no wonder that there are so many divorces. It is no wonder that there are problems in marriages. It is sick! So many are dogs & animals when it comes to treating women - especially their wives, like true Queens!

What happened to the Women being treated like an 'Eishet Chayil'? What happened to the concept of Women being the rock & support in the marriage? Where the h** are the 'rabbis" on these issues? Are they too busy abusing wives / Women themselves? Are they too busy sweeping divorce cases under the rug? Abusive relationships? Are they too busy being involved in money laundering, swindling, lying, cheating? Are they too busy with Lipa, Indian wigs, Internet & Cell phones? Kashrut Scandals?

Folks, these 'rabbis' are a joke, and should not be listening to nor tolerated. It is a case of the blind leading the blind, and the time has come to get rid of this cancer! Stand up for Women! Stand up for the amazing things they do. Treat them with R - E S - P - E - C - T! Stop being chauvinistic animals & pigs!

Sounds like you're someone who believes in woman's lib. Who says most men don't treat their spouses properly? Maybe the reason there is so many divorces -is because a lot of women have the wrong haskofos? It sounds like you need to work on yourself -calling all men -animals & pigs. Just because there are few, doesn't give you the right to call everyone names. This isn't loshon horah -it's pure motzay shem rah! Refuah Shlaimah!

45

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:10 PM Anonymous Says:

And frum people wonder why they are not welcome to move into secular/MO neighborhoods in Israel!!!

If the chareidim keep pushing made-up and baseless "chumrahs", then they have no one else to blame when the rest of the country doesn't want them.

The Beis HaMikdash had an ezras nashim, but the street of Jerusalem belonged, and still belong, to all.

46

 Aug 17, 2009 at 09:06 PM NetRabbi Says:

The "militant lesbian
pro-IVF for single women femi-nazi" bloggers always give me a good chuckle.

47

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:33 PM boruch Says:

Reply to #3  
bronx Bubby Says:

I hope this is a joke.

oh no it is not a joke this is real

48

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
Treat Women Like Queens Says:

It is amazing that there are 31 comments so far and no one mentioned that Women should be treated like Ladies & Queens. It is no wonder that there are so many divorces. It is no wonder that there are problems in marriages. It is sick! So many are dogs & animals when it comes to treating women - especially their wives, like true Queens!

What happened to the Women being treated like an 'Eishet Chayil'? What happened to the concept of Women being the rock & support in the marriage? Where the h** are the 'rabbis" on these issues? Are they too busy abusing wives / Women themselves? Are they too busy sweeping divorce cases under the rug? Abusive relationships? Are they too busy being involved in money laundering, swindling, lying, cheating? Are they too busy with Lipa, Indian wigs, Internet & Cell phones? Kashrut Scandals?

Folks, these 'rabbis' are a joke, and should not be listening to nor tolerated. It is a case of the blind leading the blind, and the time has come to get rid of this cancer! Stand up for Women! Stand up for the amazing things they do. Treat them with R - E S - P - E - C - T! Stop being chauvinistic animals & pigs!

Their are no husbands in the world who treat their wives as well as Jewish husbands do. Of course their are some mentally ill people our there. I'm speaking about the majority of Jewish men and it is a known fact that they treat their wives like queens.

49

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:41 PM boruch Says:

Reply to #29  
mr613 Says:

they should also impose seperate hours for shopping at the stores/ Markolet
not ! This seems a little overboard

hey they do have that in beit tar

50

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:41 PM tzoorba Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

And frum people wonder why they are not welcome to move into secular/MO neighborhoods in Israel!!!

If the chareidim keep pushing made-up and baseless "chumrahs", then they have no one else to blame when the rest of the country doesn't want them.

The Beis HaMikdash had an ezras nashim, but the street of Jerusalem belonged, and still belong, to all.

Why are you making this a general condemnation of sincerely frum people who don't water down their yiddishkeit? The vast majority of them didn't institute or accept this chumra. It is being pushed by a fringe group.

51

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:40 PM The Queen of Persia Says:

I think we should respect the feelings of the people in each neighborhood. Nobody said it was halachicaly mandatory to have two separate sides of the street, but if the people of any given neighborhood choose to take upon themselves a chumra, the least we can do is respect their wishes.

52

 Aug 17, 2009 at 10:38 PM boruch Says:

Reply to #41  
Shaul in Monsey Says:

The fact that men and women who call themselves frum live in the same house is a disgrace. Only true frumme yiddin would live al pi teireh with the men living in the upstairs of a house and the women living in basements and garages.

And all this mixed seating at the shabbos tables is also a shrekliche matziv and a shandeh and a disgrace and the true teiredicke yeeden should never have mixed seating at homes. The women should eat in the kitchen lchatchileh or bdi eved they could eat the leftovers after the men beltch, I mean bentch. All this disgusting menuveldicke pritzus is mamish a shandeh. Oy!

Maybe instead of separate sides of the street for men and women, we should only let men walk on the streets from 6 AM to 10 PM, and women can only walk on streets from 10 PM to 6 AM. That could work too. Come to think of it, now, why do women need to walk the streets? Only the machsheyfas walk the streets. That's it! Women should no longer be allowed outside. It could only lead to the men going insane and unable to control their urges, the men would come to sin because women are outdoors. So keep the women inside!

Of course lets not worry about the silly issues like spousal abuse, drug abuse, porn addiction, homosexuality, gambling, stealing and all the other nonsense that has eroded our culture and society. Let's just focus on the real issues like this one.

your a funny guy i couldn't have said it better. It's time to get real there are bigger problems going on and this is what they worry about it really is a shame

53

 Aug 18, 2009 at 05:47 AM malacht Says:

Reply to #51  
The Queen of Persia Says:

I think we should respect the feelings of the people in each neighborhood. Nobody said it was halachicaly mandatory to have two separate sides of the street, but if the people of any given neighborhood choose to take upon themselves a chumra, the least we can do is respect their wishes.

This person lives in one of the neighborhoods mentioned and thinks that this separation is a bad and stupid idea and also unworkable. It is also being pushed by people who not only do not live in this particular neighborhood and thus are interfering from outside but also by people who do not recognize the government or probably pay taxes so they can forget about the sidewalks which one expects are paid for by the city or taxpayers. So I do hope you will respect my wishes. PS on Shabbath nothing like what was described.
With all due respect Queen of Persia, maybe you should stay in Persia, keep your remarks limited to Persia, or move to Persia which BTW is now Iran.

54

 Aug 18, 2009 at 04:41 AM Anonymous Says:

Interesting to note how so much debate revolves around a claim.
When in fact #5 who stated his entire family was there and saw nothing of the sort.
In fact many families were walking with children and men. Many men were on the way to shul for learning or davening. Bochurim were on way to kosel. And girls were observed walking with each other on the way to their business.
If the purpose of this article is theoretical as in what the best way for our people to conduct themselves. Then there is what to discuss and bashing yelling screaming is not needed.

55

 Aug 18, 2009 at 04:39 AM YitzchokAizik Says:

so much free time. can they get some work instead of coming up with these ideas?

56

 Aug 18, 2009 at 04:38 AM Anonymous Says:

what about separate forums on VIN where men and women can post separately. I always want to post, but I'm afraid my feminine writing and excellent punctuation, might make some men unable to control their urges.

57

 Aug 18, 2009 at 02:17 AM Reality Check Says:

Reb Yiddele and his good wife Rebitzen Yiddisel decide to go for a shabbos walk with their baby, Tzadikel.
Tzadikel rides in his bugaboo, on the men's side, for chinuch reasons.
Rebitzen Yiddisel realizes that Tzaddikel needs a diaper change.
She shouts across the street for Reb Yiddile to check.
Reb Yiddele confirms her suspicions, but motions to his wife that she is carrying the diaper bag.
Rebitzen Yiddisel picks a diaper out of the bag, and hurls it toward her husband across the street with all her might.
She misses.
The diaper hits a chiloni reporter who is filming the scene for CNN.
Rebitzen Yidisel is arrested for assaulting a reporter.
She walks peacefully to the police station, in order not to make a chillul Hashem.
Reb Yiddele invites the chiloni reporter for chulent, while his friends protest peacefully at the police station.
Baby Tzadikel loses his appetite due to the sudden separation from his mother, and refuses to eat any chulent.
Reb Yiddele ponders the unfolding events, and realizes that his chulent was made with meat from a dishonest butcher, and concludes that his zehirus in tznius has saved him from eating tarfus.

When Reb Yiddele awakens from his Shabbos nap, he realizes it was all a silly dream.
Which is a good thing, because if any of this were true, it could have caused decent yidden to become cynical.

58

 Aug 18, 2009 at 01:53 AM Yaakov Says:

I don't know if you know this but this is going on for at least 15 years. Everyone ignores them.

59

 Aug 18, 2009 at 01:03 AM dovid's friend says Says:

I once heard on a tape from Rav Shimshon Dovid Pinkus that in certain towns in Poland 150 years ago, even GOYISHER MEN & WOMEN walked on different sides of the sidewalk.

If any frum man opposes such measures in religious neighborhoods such as Meah Shearim, Kiryas Belz, Ramat Bet Shemesh Bes, then he needs to examine why he wants to walk near another man's woman.

60

 Aug 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM Shalom Bayis Says:

One of the problems of widespread acceptance of this new 'chumra' is that it will affect couples who wish to stroll or walk together, thus affecting shalom bayis. Rabbi Shalom Arush, in his sefer GARDEN OF PEACE, is one of many rabbis who point out the vital need for wives to feel loved and appreciated. If one cannot walk alongside one's wife as she shops or just talks, this will affect marriages, without a doubt. People need time to be together as a couple. Those who have seen gedolim know how they would would walk together with their wives and their daughters. We need to keep families together, not split up!

61

 Aug 18, 2009 at 12:11 AM 5T Resident Says:

This is becoming truly insane. How can these people treat women so poorly but still sing Aishes Chayil on Friday night?

I wonder - the Chunash tells us b'feresh that Yaakov Avinu kissed Rochel Imainu shortly after meeting her. Would Yaakov Avinu get thrown out of Mea She'arim for that?

62

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:21 PM true Says:

well in skver they can do it , but not in a place like that where hundreds of people from all over the world come to see this most intresting streets , but as i see the pictures the streets are soooooo very nerrow , it would be nice at least on shabbos to have it that way and not have to go zig zag as some one said ,,

63

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:19 PM Yeah Right...... Says:

I don't believe this neurushkeit for a second. I honestly believe that this is mamish a joke. I think they want something to talk about, besides the lady and her child and the mermaid story. See all these are just stories so people can talk about us. They will make up anything. Its mamish like Purim Shtick in August.

64

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:12 PM HAGTBG Says:

Reply to #50  
tzoorba Says:

Why are you making this a general condemnation of sincerely frum people who don't water down their yiddishkeit? The vast majority of them didn't institute or accept this chumra. It is being pushed by a fringe group.

Do not call it a chumra because it is not a chumra. This is not yiddishkeit. It is, arguably, from a fringe of Islam.

65

 Aug 17, 2009 at 11:05 PM A Golus Yid Says:

When my son was a yeshiva bochur in E"Y, he noticed that because the chareidi women in E"Y don't drive, there were many more women on the streets than in the USA, where the women were in their cars. Therefore, a takana that started out for tznius reasons, made the situation less tzniyusdig! So Women in Yerushalayim, get those driver's licences and get off the streets!

66

 Aug 18, 2009 at 07:05 AM Aaron Says:

There is nothing about that on the Neturei Karta websites, and none of the articles bother to interview the person making the announcement, not did they interview a Neturei Karta spokesman. Neturei Karta seems to be interested in questions of war and peace, not sidewalks. I suggest the article is, at least in large part, a hoax.

67

 Aug 18, 2009 at 07:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
shas yid Says:

did they have this in the gemoro times?
we can safely assume they didn't from the stories scattered around shas

Listen this is ppl they don't have what to do only think about woman woman what can't you do

68

 Aug 18, 2009 at 07:44 AM shlomo zalman Says:

There is a slippery slope here. It starts with separating married people at weddings, continues with separating married couples at their own family shabbos simchas and continues with separating genders at public concerts, and so on. If I can't sit with my own wife at a wedding, why can I stand at a bus stop with your wife? How can I walk behind her, or beside her, or past her on the sidewalk?
So anyone who thinks separate sidewalks is crazy, look in your own lechaim or vort and try to find the differences, because that's where it started.
Personally, I think the whole separation mentality is psychopathological.

69

 Aug 18, 2009 at 07:41 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #42  
(wo)men are people Says:

Soon there will be separate subway cars for males and females. Every home must have a men's entrance and a separate women's entrance ( in the back yard). Cars must have complete mechitzohs.too. Are the Jewish women walking out in the street in their swimwear or underwear? Here in NYC no one should ever be permitted to walk on any sidewalk,because of the way the people 'dress'.Every home should have a separate 'bathroom' for men and another for women.

the bathroom is a good idea but not for tznius reasons just for hygiene

70

 Aug 18, 2009 at 07:40 AM Yosef Says:

Kol HaMosif Gore'a

71

 Aug 18, 2009 at 07:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
yankel Says:

I live in new square and we have it for many years and its great, you can walk to shul on shabbos and don't have to make zig zag and walk between crowds

if yopu are so frum... why r ui wasting ur time on vin.. go learn or do something tachlisdig.. dont waste time. bitul zman is a worse sin then walking on the same side as a wsoman.. grow up and learn to control your taavos

72

 Aug 18, 2009 at 06:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Heimishe Mamma Says:

You know I was in Eretz Yisroel recently and went to shop in Geulah Erev Shabbos. Truthfully the narrow streets were so crowded I was completely overwhelmed,frum men and women were cramped together like sardines!! I was shocked how bad it was! Nothing like BP or Willi, so if you havent experienced it DONT TALK!! Literally people were on top of each other mamish men women, bucherim, girls...let me tell you its not such a bad idea having the men and women in the Geulah neighborhood on other sides.......and I am a very open minded person..its just that I was never in such a crowd in the middle of the street except maybe in the NY subways rushhour time...... I was extremly uncomfortable!!

lose weight, you'll have plenty of room on the sidewalk.

73

 Aug 18, 2009 at 06:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

some1 walkd on lady side in skver, ppl started screaming@ him, he answers im going 2a wedding, ppl: go on men side! he answer no im from the kallas side

You had me laughing very hard. Thanks for your joke.

74

 Aug 18, 2009 at 08:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Will a young child, a boy for example, be able to walk on the same side as his mother if she has to go to work?

75

 Aug 18, 2009 at 08:14 AM Anonymous Says:

who knows? Maybe they'll even have the fathers walk with their sons on one side, and the mother walks with the daughters on the other side?

76

 Aug 18, 2009 at 08:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #68  
shlomo zalman Says:

There is a slippery slope here. It starts with separating married people at weddings, continues with separating married couples at their own family shabbos simchas and continues with separating genders at public concerts, and so on. If I can't sit with my own wife at a wedding, why can I stand at a bus stop with your wife? How can I walk behind her, or beside her, or past her on the sidewalk?
So anyone who thinks separate sidewalks is crazy, look in your own lechaim or vort and try to find the differences, because that's where it started.
Personally, I think the whole separation mentality is psychopathological.

While personally I'd love to do away with all segregation, there is indeed a difference. Going about your business is different than a social event where there is a party atmosphere, dancing, perhaps drinking. That is a different kind of interaction. (Just explaining - I still think allowing the genders to mix more would do much to alleviate the shidduch problems)

77

 Aug 18, 2009 at 10:45 AM Anonymous Says:

"A man should not walk behind a woman on the way even if it is his own wife and if he finds himself behind a woman on a bridge he should move to the side" that is a gemora (brachos 61.1) so for those of you who were concerned about how it was in the gemoras times, how about learning some gemora first?

78

 Aug 18, 2009 at 10:32 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
dovid's friend says Says:

I once heard on a tape from Rav Shimshon Dovid Pinkus that in certain towns in Poland 150 years ago, even GOYISHER MEN & WOMEN walked on different sides of the sidewalk.

If any frum man opposes such measures in religious neighborhoods such as Meah Shearim, Kiryas Belz, Ramat Bet Shemesh Bes, then he needs to examine why he wants to walk near another man's woman.

European men always walked with their ladies, for protection. It is their custom for the men to walk on the street side of the sidewalk to protect the ladies from mud splashes and, certainly 150 years ago, a man had to physically help a woman into a carriage. There is no European society that separated men from the women outside of Convents and Monasteries.

79

 Aug 18, 2009 at 10:28 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
smile Says:

"frum eza galuch n erlich eza yid"

Not in this day and age, buddy.

80

 Aug 18, 2009 at 10:25 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
Treat Women Like Queens Says:

It is amazing that there are 31 comments so far and no one mentioned that Women should be treated like Ladies & Queens. It is no wonder that there are so many divorces. It is no wonder that there are problems in marriages. It is sick! So many are dogs & animals when it comes to treating women - especially their wives, like true Queens!

What happened to the Women being treated like an 'Eishet Chayil'? What happened to the concept of Women being the rock & support in the marriage? Where the h** are the 'rabbis" on these issues? Are they too busy abusing wives / Women themselves? Are they too busy sweeping divorce cases under the rug? Abusive relationships? Are they too busy being involved in money laundering, swindling, lying, cheating? Are they too busy with Lipa, Indian wigs, Internet & Cell phones? Kashrut Scandals?

Folks, these 'rabbis' are a joke, and should not be listening to nor tolerated. It is a case of the blind leading the blind, and the time has come to get rid of this cancer! Stand up for Women! Stand up for the amazing things they do. Treat them with R - E S - P - E - C - T! Stop being chauvinistic animals & pigs!

You are in need of help,i can see something is eating you up.You just rambled on.You seem to know that it's only men who cause all the divorces.We should make sure the cancer your spreading.doesn't go further.

81

 Aug 18, 2009 at 09:55 AM Anonymous Says:

All this started when in the local store they found Lady fingers on the same shelf as men-toes

82

 Aug 18, 2009 at 12:07 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:

Reply to #48  
Anonymous Says:

Their are no husbands in the world who treat their wives as well as Jewish husbands do. Of course their are some mentally ill people our there. I'm speaking about the majority of Jewish men and it is a known fact that they treat their wives like queens.

You are obviously refering to other Jewish husbands than those about whom the article was written.

83

 Aug 18, 2009 at 12:04 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:

Reply to #51  
The Queen of Persia Says:

I think we should respect the feelings of the people in each neighborhood. Nobody said it was halachicaly mandatory to have two separate sides of the street, but if the people of any given neighborhood choose to take upon themselves a chumra, the least we can do is respect their wishes.

As was posted elswhere, it is a mistake to call this a "chumra". It is a minhag shtus and has no basis or place in Judaism.

84

 Aug 18, 2009 at 12:02 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:

Reply to #59  
dovid's friend says Says:

I once heard on a tape from Rav Shimshon Dovid Pinkus that in certain towns in Poland 150 years ago, even GOYISHER MEN & WOMEN walked on different sides of the sidewalk.

If any frum man opposes such measures in religious neighborhoods such as Meah Shearim, Kiryas Belz, Ramat Bet Shemesh Bes, then he needs to examine why he wants to walk near another man's woman.

No disrespect intended, but Rav Shimshon was repeating a fairy tale. No such town ever existed in Poland or anywhere else in Xtian Europe.

85

 Aug 18, 2009 at 11:46 AM Anonymous Says:

My grandmother had a balance problem and needed to hold someone's arm when walking and have someone help her with curbs and steps. She felt much safer with a big strong man like her son, son-in-law or some other male who she felt could keep her from falling. If she lived in a place like that, she could never go out.

86

 Aug 18, 2009 at 01:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #48  
Anonymous Says:

Their are no husbands in the world who treat their wives as well as Jewish husbands do. Of course their are some mentally ill people our there. I'm speaking about the majority of Jewish men and it is a known fact that they treat their wives like queens.

uhm uhm.. That is a pure lie. There are many abusive Jewish husbands out there?

Does abusing ines wife constitutes theating ones wife with their wife? Not in my definition of the term "treat their wives like queens".

87

 Aug 18, 2009 at 02:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #65  
A Golus Yid Says:

When my son was a yeshiva bochur in E"Y, he noticed that because the chareidi women in E"Y don't drive, there were many more women on the streets than in the USA, where the women were in their cars. Therefore, a takana that started out for tznius reasons, made the situation less tzniyusdig! So Women in Yerushalayim, get those driver's licences and get off the streets!

Please, do not expect Israeli women to drive in Geula. They don't need more traffic there! It is almost impossible to go from a side street into Rechov Malchei Yisroel. Yes the streets are very crowded and there is a problem with men bumping into women and vice versa. We need Moshiach to come and given a psak on what should be - separate sides of the streets, men's and women's hours????

88

 Aug 18, 2009 at 02:21 PM shimon taylor Says:

It's a good idea. But it might cause more problems than it solves.
I personally greatly admire these things, "umi c'amcho yisroel", but it should be done with shiflus/humility, and without getting angry. Therefore, perhaps it might be a better idea to limit new laws to the minimum.
We already have the kosher phone, the kosher busses, no internet (this is in sin, however) etc.

89

 Aug 18, 2009 at 02:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
Treat Women Like Queens Says:

It is amazing that there are 31 comments so far and no one mentioned that Women should be treated like Ladies & Queens. It is no wonder that there are so many divorces. It is no wonder that there are problems in marriages. It is sick! So many are dogs & animals when it comes to treating women - especially their wives, like true Queens!

What happened to the Women being treated like an 'Eishet Chayil'? What happened to the concept of Women being the rock & support in the marriage? Where the h** are the 'rabbis" on these issues? Are they too busy abusing wives / Women themselves? Are they too busy sweeping divorce cases under the rug? Abusive relationships? Are they too busy being involved in money laundering, swindling, lying, cheating? Are they too busy with Lipa, Indian wigs, Internet & Cell phones? Kashrut Scandals?

Folks, these 'rabbis' are a joke, and should not be listening to nor tolerated. It is a case of the blind leading the blind, and the time has come to get rid of this cancer! Stand up for Women! Stand up for the amazing things they do. Treat them with R - E S - P - E - C - T! Stop being chauvinistic animals & pigs!

wow! ur fulll of anger!!!!!!!!! perhaps u urself have been abused by ur husband so u think theyre all like that and u are focusing on that issue...i dont know how u have the guts and the chutzpah to talk like that about rabbanim!

90

 Aug 18, 2009 at 04:13 PM formally Says:

Reply to #87  
Anonymous Says:

Please, do not expect Israeli women to drive in Geula. They don't need more traffic there! It is almost impossible to go from a side street into Rechov Malchei Yisroel. Yes the streets are very crowded and there is a problem with men bumping into women and vice versa. We need Moshiach to come and given a psak on what should be - separate sides of the streets, men's and women's hours????

the bumping could easily be resolved if all men would just put of hockey or football uniforms with the pads of course should be enough not t
o be over nigia

91

 Aug 18, 2009 at 05:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #90  
formally Says:

the bumping could easily be resolved if all men would just put of hockey or football uniforms with the pads of course should be enough not t
o be over nigia

Typical comment from formally.Of course he'll cry why no one is answering him(even when there are answers,he simply just restates his"point".Just look at his post,who would answer such a crazy idea(besides the sting apparent in it).

92

 Aug 18, 2009 at 08:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #50  
tzoorba Says:

Why are you making this a general condemnation of sincerely frum people who don't water down their yiddishkeit? The vast majority of them didn't institute or accept this chumra. It is being pushed by a fringe group.

I'm not condemning sincerely frum people who don't want this chumra. I'm just saying that there is cause-and-effect. Secular people don't necessarily differentiate between the kannoim and other chareidim. If seculars see chumras like this, with no reaction from chareidi leaders, they will not welcome frum people into their neighborhoods because they will not want these chumras.

If frum people want to move into a secular neighborhood, they need to get along with their neighbors. They don't have to like their neighbors, they don't have to marry their neighbors' children, but they have to get along. For example, frum people moving into a neighborhood and wanting kosher food is, of course, OK. Frum people moving into a neighborhood and boycotting a store for selling non-kosher food is still OK. Frum people moving into a neighborhood and threatening the owners with bodily harm because they sell non-kosher food is absolutely wrong. It's the same with separating women from men while walking in the street---if seculars see this chumra in frum neighborhoods, they will resist having frum people move into their neighborhood. It's just common sense.

93

 Aug 18, 2009 at 08:41 PM Robert Says:

why not give it a try say for 3 months?
see if it enhances their spirituality...or not
see if it kills their busineesses or promotes commerce
see if they are hapier and more personally fulfilled and more angry and depressed
i think i know the answers, but there is only one way to know for sure.

94

 Aug 18, 2009 at 08:57 PM formally Says:

Reply to #91  
Anonymous Says:

Typical comment from formally.Of course he'll cry why no one is answering him(even when there are answers,he simply just restates his"point".Just look at his post,who would answer such a crazy idea(besides the sting apparent in it).

at least someone on Vin has a sense of humor, it took a while

giving answer from non existing source or say we know because someone had a dream of the rebbie knows what he is doing is not an answer based on fact.

Answer should be able to back up some evidence, and not say everybody knows this to be true, but cannot give ant source material that is is true, is not an answer.

I will be clearer next time. Please answer with some evidence, and fact, or facts that have been proven to be wrong at a latter date. Like the verdict of the trial

95

 Aug 18, 2009 at 11:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #94  
formally Says:

at least someone on Vin has a sense of humor, it took a while

giving answer from non existing source or say we know because someone had a dream of the rebbie knows what he is doing is not an answer based on fact.

Answer should be able to back up some evidence, and not say everybody knows this to be true, but cannot give ant source material that is is true, is not an answer.

I will be clearer next time. Please answer with some evidence, and fact, or facts that have been proven to be wrong at a latter date. Like the verdict of the trial

You didn't answer my main point,besides did you lokok up the 2 sources given,most of all,did you never give sources to the majority of your claims.

96

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