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Washington - Republican Senator Shouts "you Lie" During Obama Speech

Published on: September 9, 2009 10:34 PM
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Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) shouts as U.S. President Barack Obama addresses a joint session of the U.S. Congress at the U.S. Capitol September 9, 2009 in Washington, DC. Obama addressed the joint session to urge passage of his national health care plan, the centerpiece of his domestic agenda.  (Photo by Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) shouts as U.S. President Barack Obama addresses a joint session of the U.S. Congress at the U.S. Capitol September 9, 2009 in Washington, DC. Obama addressed the joint session to urge passage of his national health care plan, the centerpiece of his domestic agenda.  (Photo by Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

Washington - A South Carolina Republican lawmaker shouted “You lie” at President Barack Obama as he addressed Congress on Wednesday, prompting a GOP senator to call for an apology.

In his speech in the House chamber, Obama was telling lawmakers that the Democratic plans for health care overhaul do not cover illegal immigrants.

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“The reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally,” Obama said.

“You lie!” Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C., shouted from his seat, jabbing a finger in the air.

Following the speech, it was Obama’s Republican rival from last year’s presidential race for the White House who defended the president.

It was “totally disrespectful,” Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said on CNN of Wilson, a conservative who has opposed Obama’s economic remedies. “There is no place for it in that setting, or any other, and he should apologize for it immediately.”

Wilson’s spokesman Ryan Murphy did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Wilson’s outburst caused Obama to pause briefly. Behind him House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., could be seen glaring in Wilson’s direction, but there was no move by Democratic leaders to censure Wilson. First lady Michelle Obama, in the visitors’ gallery, shook her head from side to side disapprovingly.

Neither the House nor the Senate health care overhaul bills would provide coverage for illegal immigrants.

Wilson’s wasn’t the only interruption during Obama’s speech to a joint session of Congress.

Earlier, Republicans laughed when Obama acknowledged that there still were significant details to be worked out before a health overhaul can be passed.

According to TPM below  is a statement from Rep. Joe Wilson

Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) has apologized for breaking with protocol and calling the President a liar during his speech before Congess this evening.

“This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President’s remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill,” Wilson said. “While I disagree with the President’s statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the President for this lack of civility.”

I guess that’s 90 percent of an apology, but politically, it may be too late to undo the impression that the GOP is handling the health care fight uncivilly.



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Read Comments (107)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Sep 09, 2009 at 09:45 PM formally Says:

I see a republican have gone to a new low.

PS wilson lied it clearly states that no money will go to insure illegal immigrants.
maybe he cannot read

H.R. 3200 includes a provision that specifically says that there will be no federal funds spent to cover illegal immigrants:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

2

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:08 PM Truth Says:

Actually Mr. Formally you lie and Wilson is right. They don't offically pay for illegals now, but they cover them after the fact. These illegals use hospitals, clinics (fed funded and regular) and afterwards these places bill our State and Federal gov. They get a lot of the money back. Do you think for one second that these medical centers would treat these people if they knew they weren't getting a cent in return?!

3

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:13 PM Anonymous Says:

I also heard some "Boooos" in middle of the speach.

I thought this is interesting. It starts looking like the Parliment on England, and the Isaraeli Keneset.

4

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:46 PM Way to go Says:

That's my man!! Yeah stand up to the truth!!!.

5

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:39 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #2  
Truth Says:

Actually Mr. Formally you lie and Wilson is right. They don't offically pay for illegals now, but they cover them after the fact. These illegals use hospitals, clinics (fed funded and regular) and afterwards these places bill our State and Federal gov. They get a lot of the money back. Do you think for one second that these medical centers would treat these people if they knew they weren't getting a cent in return?!

The truth is that you are not truthful, what you are pointing to, is how we currently cover everybody who doesn’t have insurance but that doesn’t have anything to do with the any of the five bills that have currently passed in committee therefore you should change your name to untruthful and formally should change his name to truthful

6

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:36 PM formally Says:

Reply to #2  
Truth Says:

Actually Mr. Formally you lie and Wilson is right. They don't offically pay for illegals now, but they cover them after the fact. These illegals use hospitals, clinics (fed funded and regular) and afterwards these places bill our State and Federal gov. They get a lot of the money back. Do you think for one second that these medical centers would treat these people if they knew they weren't getting a cent in return?!

it that a joke your sign on name is truth, do you think if that is you sign on name it will make you lie the truth

from factcheck i can get you many more sources please provide your sources
False: Illegal Immigrants Will Be Covered
FactCheck.org is a non-partisan,[1] nonprofit[2] website that describes itself as a "'consumer advocate' for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics."[3] It is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, and is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.[3]

Most of its content consists of rebuttals to what it considers inaccurate, misleading, or false claims by politicians. FactCheck has also targeted misleading claims from various partisan groups.

One Republican congressman issued a press release claiming that "5,600,000 Illegal Aliens May Be Covered Under Obamacare," and we’ve been peppered with queries about similar claims. They’re not true. In fact, the House bill (the only bill to be formally introduced in its entirety) specifically says that no federal money would be spent on giving illegal immigrants health coverage:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Also, under current law, those in the country illegally don’t qualify for federal health programs. Of interest: About half of illegal immigrants have health insurance now, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center, which says those who lack insurance do so principally because their employers don’t offer it.

7

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I also heard some "Boooos" in middle of the speach.

I thought this is interesting. It starts looking like the Parliment on England, and the Isaraeli Keneset.

i.e. like a highly immature kindergarten... this is pathetic...

8

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:25 PM formally Says:

Reply to #2  
Truth Says:

Actually Mr. Formally you lie and Wilson is right. They don't offically pay for illegals now, but they cover them after the fact. These illegals use hospitals, clinics (fed funded and regular) and afterwards these places bill our State and Federal gov. They get a lot of the money back. Do you think for one second that these medical centers would treat these people if they knew they weren't getting a cent in return?!

no they do not the eat it and charge anybody else a little more

even if they do pay as you say it is not in this bill so Obamas bill does not call for insurance for illegal immigrants or paying for them. As a rule everybody get emergency care whether they have insurance or not. Do you want someone to be hit by a car and just let them die because they have no insurance

so Wilson lied once and you twice

9

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:23 PM california surfer Says:

one of the biggest reasons california is broke is because illegals get all benefits and don't pay a dime for anything. and by the way there was i lot more lies in the speech.

10

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Intresting,there are still details to be worked out,but i thought health care shuould have passed by august.Thank you for admitting your critics were right about how wrong you were and are to try to rush it through.

11

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Truth Says:

Actually Mr. Formally you lie and Wilson is right. They don't offically pay for illegals now, but they cover them after the fact. These illegals use hospitals, clinics (fed funded and regular) and afterwards these places bill our State and Federal gov. They get a lot of the money back. Do you think for one second that these medical centers would treat these people if they knew they weren't getting a cent in return?!

Yes, they will still be able to go to the emergency rooms, something they can do TODAY without any bills!

12

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:16 PM Anonymous Says:

I say, awriiiight!!!

13

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:14 PM Dave Says:

Reply to #2  
Truth Says:

Actually Mr. Formally you lie and Wilson is right. They don't offically pay for illegals now, but they cover them after the fact. These illegals use hospitals, clinics (fed funded and regular) and afterwards these places bill our State and Federal gov. They get a lot of the money back. Do you think for one second that these medical centers would treat these people if they knew they weren't getting a cent in return?!

It is illegal in the United States for Emergency Rooms to refuse care based on ability to pay.

The alternative is that we let people die because they didn't happen to have an insurance card on them when they were brought in.

The side effect is that everyone with insurance ends up paying a higher price to make up for those who can't pay.

14

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:13 PM Obama spells out no details Says:

All Details of Obama's Plan are not known to 99.99% of Americans and was not spelled out by Obama tonight.

15

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:10 PM DA Says:

Reply to #1  
formally Says:

I see a republican have gone to a new low.

PS wilson lied it clearly states that no money will go to insure illegal immigrants.
maybe he cannot read

H.R. 3200 includes a provision that specifically says that there will be no federal funds spent to cover illegal immigrants:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Once again, an EMBARASSMENT for the state of SC! Very disrespectful of the office of the presidency!!! Let's see if his fellow republican will have to say about this.

16

 Sep 09, 2009 at 09:59 PM Anonymous Says:

These Republicans are in a state of panic because they know that the President will run them over on the health care reform issue and sign a bill into law. Even McCain knows that Wilson is mentally unstable and tried to paper over the outburst. His belated apology is too little too late. By'irtzah hashem, by this time next year, all Americans will have access to quality health care.

17

 Sep 09, 2009 at 10:56 PM YitzchokM Says:

First of all, Under H.R. 3200, a ‘Health Insurance Exchange’ which will begin operation in 2013 would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange.

Also “undocumented aliens” who have a “substantial presence” in the US would be required to buy health insurance (page 4) through the exchanges in HR3200. They would also become eligible for “emergency Medicaid,” although not normal Medicaid (page 6) for up to five years!

Second, Harry Reid has called Town-hall protesters “evil-mongers”. When is he going to offer an apology?

I'm glad to see that your skewed thinking applies to everything, not only Jewish matters.

18

 Sep 10, 2009 at 01:46 AM Anonymous Says:

John McCain is right. Wilson is an embarassment to his state, his party, the senate and the country. The Senate should censure Joe Wilson for his inexcusable and deplorable behavior dueing the presidential address.

He mixed up Obama speeches and acted like a first grader in the senate while the first graders behaved like senators should but didnt. )Besides the fact, the doofus handed Obama a victory just like that.)

19

 Sep 10, 2009 at 12:14 AM plz Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

These Republicans are in a state of panic because they know that the President will run them over on the health care reform issue and sign a bill into law. Even McCain knows that Wilson is mentally unstable and tried to paper over the outburst. His belated apology is too little too late. By'irtzah hashem, by this time next year, all Americans will have access to quality health care.

Just like Nixon wanted.

20

 Sep 10, 2009 at 05:44 AM Pro Life Says:

It's fascinating that some republicans who claim to be pro life only extend their pro life support to fetuses. Once someone is born, they don't want them to have access to lifesaving care if they are an illegal alien. They want hospitals to have to check a person's immigration status before providing care. They also don't want many american citizens to have healthcare either.

21

 Sep 10, 2009 at 12:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

These Republicans are in a state of panic because they know that the President will run them over on the health care reform issue and sign a bill into law. Even McCain knows that Wilson is mentally unstable and tried to paper over the outburst. His belated apology is too little too late. By'irtzah hashem, by this time next year, all Americans will have access to quality health care.

sounds like a perfect word we should all have it all but you not understand how many thing are wrong with your idea. how you gonna pay for all this and do you want it be like going to the DNV.

22

 Sep 10, 2009 at 12:24 AM OMG Says:

Reply to #17  
YitzchokM Says:

First of all, Under H.R. 3200, a ‘Health Insurance Exchange’ which will begin operation in 2013 would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange.

Also “undocumented aliens” who have a “substantial presence” in the US would be required to buy health insurance (page 4) through the exchanges in HR3200. They would also become eligible for “emergency Medicaid,” although not normal Medicaid (page 6) for up to five years!

Second, Harry Reid has called Town-hall protesters “evil-mongers”. When is he going to offer an apology?

I'm glad to see that your skewed thinking applies to everything, not only Jewish matters.

You make it sound that the government will subsidies the public option but the President said on numerous occasions and again tonight that the public option will not be subsidized by the government, not one penny, in regards if illegal’s should get and pay for their insurance even now if they work in a company which provides health insurance they should get insurance I don’t want to pay for them via an hidden subsidy to the tone of one thousand dollars in my premium, so I don’t mind if an illegal would buy health insurance I would encourage it

23

 Sep 10, 2009 at 12:13 AM plz Says:

Reply to #15  
DA Says:

Once again, an EMBARASSMENT for the state of SC! Very disrespectful of the office of the presidency!!! Let's see if his fellow republican will have to say about this.

South carolina has adulterous governors, senators and presidential candidates, now they have one more thing to be embarassed about indeed.

24

 Sep 10, 2009 at 12:10 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Truth Says:

Actually Mr. Formally you lie and Wilson is right. They don't offically pay for illegals now, but they cover them after the fact. These illegals use hospitals, clinics (fed funded and regular) and afterwards these places bill our State and Federal gov. They get a lot of the money back. Do you think for one second that these medical centers would treat these people if they knew they weren't getting a cent in return?!

Wilson is wrong. this is a new low. it doesnt matter what party you are from, you dont heckle or interrupt the president. whether his name is bush reagan clinton or obama. this is like throwing a shoe. decorum , decency, courtesy and respect, from an elected official representing a state to interrupt and shout such a thing and point at the president/ ??? he hsould immediately resign.

25

 Sep 10, 2009 at 06:34 AM 5T Resident Says:

This senator yells out at Obama during a speech and the media clobbers him. Some Islamic yahoo throws a shoe at Bush during one of his speeches and he's celebrated in the media as some kind of clear-thinking progressive. What a world we live in.

26

 Sep 10, 2009 at 12:01 AM joe Says:

Its funny that while their leader Obama admits that the plan is not a 100% worked out my democratic congresswomen by her town hall meeting which I attended B.S about how the plan is final and how great its going to be.
I am starting to notice how every article posted on this website about politics their a core group of libs who seem to attack with a vengeance I just hope their getting paid for selling their soul to the Obama machine because it would be a shame to do it for free

27

 Sep 09, 2009 at 11:45 PM ASimpleJew Says:

Because the bill does not explicitly provide hospitals and providers from refusing coverage to undocumented and illegal aliens, by default this bill enables the government to cover illegals through the use of such payment Methodologies as the DISH (Disproportionate Share) made to safety net providers.

The larger underlying issue here is that all versions of this bill fails to address the true underlying root causes for the current short comings in our health care system. instead it introduces a new process which will just create a new set of issues without fixing any of the existing set of issues. I have a feeling that It is also probably unconstitutional to force anyone to purchase a product or service they do not wish to purchase. Automobile insurance unlike heath insurance is designed to protect others from harm you may inflict upon them. If I choose to go with out insurance I am harming no one but myself. The law should say if you dont have health insurance and cannot show proof of funds required for treatment then no health care providor is required to treat you, that will encourage people to go out and buy insurance, which will cause risk sharing to increase lowering risk for the insurance companies who can then charge less per patient..

A government healthcare plan will ultimately be another version of socialism or as our illustrious Harvard educated dimwit of a president likes to call it ... wealth distribution. We dont need a government healthcare plan, what we need a reduction in fraud, operating costs, malpractice costs, and tort reform and an increase in liabilities for providers, insurers and patients respectively. One thing I have to say is insurance companies that operate as for profits have a serious conflict of interest.

As for Medicare; if the government spent an additional 25 Million in fraud prevention and investigation we could probably reduce fraud, waste and improper billing by 25% which would easily be a 500 million dollar savings.

Most of this "plan" is nonsense and Washington would be be wise (i know using and "Wise" and "Washington" in the same sentence is ridiculous) to veto the damn thing and redirect their energies toward fixing the system we got today instead of creating new systems which will create new problems which we will need to fix in the future along with the current problems which will likley still be in existence years from now.

28

 Sep 09, 2009 at 11:38 PM obamanation Says:

Reply to #8  
formally Says:

no they do not the eat it and charge anybody else a little more

even if they do pay as you say it is not in this bill so Obamas bill does not call for insurance for illegal immigrants or paying for them. As a rule everybody get emergency care whether they have insurance or not. Do you want someone to be hit by a car and just let them die because they have no insurance

so Wilson lied once and you twice

the illegals come to the ER even for a tiney thing becuase a doc. wouldn't see them with no ins. but the ER must, so who is he fooling by saying they will not be covered??? the are covered any how.

29

 Sep 09, 2009 at 11:30 PM Anonymous Says:

yea, but Mr Obama ostracizes others who do not beleive like him, and says "they are liers". He is very smooth talker. listen to his speech from yesterday he said others "are liers". his words

30

 Sep 09, 2009 at 11:30 PM usa Says:

I just don't understand one thing why was the s.c. senater called dissrispecteful when the president of the unidet states mr. obama dissrespects the country he reprisents by selling a boguss speach and falls information in front of congress witch he alone knows is not true whom dose he think he is folling ? he should be called to apalagize for not being true with the american peaple time and time over and over !! finally some one stude up for the truth !!

31

 Sep 10, 2009 at 06:56 AM Anonymous Says:

Right, because Nancy Pelosi never called President Bush a liar before... or said that the CIA lied to her...

32

 Sep 10, 2009 at 06:45 AM Big Masmid Says:

Obama, The truth hurts

33

 Sep 09, 2009 at 11:12 PM Anonymous Says:

While I agree that it was very disrespectful.. I also think that the speech was full of lies..
As a small business owner, I'm very scared of the government forcing me to pay for health insurance for my 15 workers..
I pay way too much $$ in taxes.. And this will put me out of business.

34

 Sep 09, 2009 at 11:07 PM Anonymous Says:

In NY and other states illegals receive many benefits that include free education, free medical care(child health plus/medicaid) and are not turned away from emergency care regardless whether they can pay or not.

35

 Sep 10, 2009 at 07:00 AM karma dude Says:

A nincompoop and ibicile who disrespects this once great nation and its citizens day after day, deserves no respect. Even if he was elected president by a minority of Americans combined with a majority of mexicans.
Obama is owed nothing by anyone in this country, least of all respect. If I hit him with my car by accident, I would not apologize.
If Obama wanted to do the respectful thing, he would apologize to the American people, and take a permanent vacation to Hawai. And he should take his back stabbing boyfriend Rahm with him.

36

 Sep 10, 2009 at 07:21 AM Anonymous Says:

This guy should get re-elected easily! The Truth Shall Set You FREE! And Nancy 'Pansy' Pelosi... ha ha... you would have thought someone yelled out her low IQ score! Those liberals just kill me... and are trying to you...

37

 Sep 10, 2009 at 07:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Maybe Mr. Wilson felt this was his only opportunity to tell it how it is. After all, if anyone dares to say anything negative about the President, his dog, his policies, his choice of tie, he/she is racist. On national TV no one would publicly accuse him of that as it is so patently not the case.

WHEN are the Dems going to get over the fact that Obama is black? Who cares? I certainly don't. I care that Obama is a Marxist & is killing they country.

Mr. Wilson apologized for basically being rude, but not for his opinions. It was a perfectly acceptable apology. Because he did speak the truth.

38

 Sep 10, 2009 at 07:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
formally Says:

I see a republican have gone to a new low.

PS wilson lied it clearly states that no money will go to insure illegal immigrants.
maybe he cannot read

H.R. 3200 includes a provision that specifically says that there will be no federal funds spent to cover illegal immigrants:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

what the crazed libs do is make it illegal to ask for citizenship.
true if they say that they are illegal, then they wont be covered, but it's illegal for medicaid wic etc to ask the citizenship of applicants, thank you very much aclu
true that the proposed law says no health insurance for illegals, but to get around that they will make it illegal to ask the status

39

 Sep 10, 2009 at 07:39 AM formally Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

While I agree that it was very disrespectful.. I also think that the speech was full of lies..
As a small business owner, I'm very scared of the government forcing me to pay for health insurance for my 15 workers..
I pay way too much $$ in taxes.. And this will put me out of business.

If you listen to the speech many small business would be exempt from paying for health insurance

40

 Sep 10, 2009 at 07:38 AM formally Says:

bush and the conservative did bang up job, i can see why you are distressed by Obama. You are just craving for another 8 years of bush cheeny

41

 Sep 10, 2009 at 07:34 AM Anonymous Says:

We need more like him to stand up to this crook

42

 Sep 10, 2009 at 07:34 AM just to make things clear Says:

Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) wrote this in his op-ed in 'The Hill'

H.R. 3200 contains gaping loopholes that will allow illegal immigrants to receive taxpayer-funded benefits. And these loopholes are no accident. The legislation contains no verification mechanism to ensure that illegal immigrants do not apply for benefits. Republicans offered an amendment to close this loophole -- it would have required verification using the existing methods that are already in place to verify eligibility for other federal benefits programs. But, when they were asked to put the language of the bill where their words were, in a party-line vote, House Democrats rejected the amendment to require verification and close this loophole.

Our media, unfortunately, don't seem to understand. They persist in an Obama-friendly minimal analysis, saying simplistically that the bill excludes coverage for illegal aliens. For example:

•A recent Associated Press story devoted to "myth vs. fact" states simply, "THE FACTS: The proposals being negotiated do not provide coverage for illegal immigrants."
•The website Factcheck.org claims it is "false" that "illegal immigrants will be covered."
•Consumer Reports calls it "the myth that will not die."
Those media evidently believe government can magically exclude illegals even in the absence of a screening system.

But history shows our social welfare bureaucracy is quite adept at finding loopholes to help illegal aliens. One example is food stamps.

Federal regulations [7 CFR 273.4 (b)] explicitly require that immigration authorities must be notified if they learn that an illegal alien is within a household applying for Food Stamps.

However, a "Catch 22" was created by the Clinton administration. In an "Interagency Notice (65 Fed. Reg. 58301, Sept. 28, 2000), bureaucrats were told that unless a person has already had a hearing and been formally determined to be an illegal immigrant, no government agency really "knows" that they are illegal -- so they need not be turned in.

It's just another example of how laws are bypassed when it comes to illegal immigration.

Only if you believe that our immigration laws are well-enforced can you believe that HR 3200 will not expand public benefits for illegal aliens. And if you believe that, I've got a certain bridge you might want to buy.

43

 Sep 10, 2009 at 08:00 AM chusid Says:

Reply to #8  
formally Says:

no they do not the eat it and charge anybody else a little more

even if they do pay as you say it is not in this bill so Obamas bill does not call for insurance for illegal immigrants or paying for them. As a rule everybody get emergency care whether they have insurance or not. Do you want someone to be hit by a car and just let them die because they have no insurance

so Wilson lied once and you twice

if you are here illegally and you get hit by a car and have no insurance then yes they should leave you alone

44

 Sep 10, 2009 at 07:58 AM Anonymous Says:

How come illegal children get to go to public school and we pay for it? How come they go to the emergency room and we pay for it? How come if the child is born here, even though the parent is illegal it makes them a US citizen? how come they can get Social Security if their parent dies or is disabled? Food stamps? WIC? And we pay for it? THe system is broken.

45

 Sep 10, 2009 at 08:07 AM Anonymous Says:

What I find particularly troubling is the extraordinary breakdown in basic civility and the negative message that outbursts like this send our children. You don't interrupt and scream while the president is speaking to congress just like you don't interrupt and scream while a teacher is talking. The complete inability of some people to have a civil discussion over important and difficult issues is scary. We see it with people screaming "nazi" and "socialist" and at each other at every drop of a hat and extraordinary fear mongering. It's fueled by talk radio and all the shouters on the cable so called "news" shows. We see all this extreme diatribe and lack of basic civility and decency in many comments on VIN and other news sites. The level of hate and polarization going on is very troubling. We need to return to the days when we have smart, articiulate legislators who can talk to each other even when they disagree, just like McCain and Kennedy or Hatch and Kennedy could talk to each other without name calling.

46

 Sep 10, 2009 at 08:39 AM Moshe Says:

Agree or disagree this was a breach of respect. Halacha says that we make a bracha when we see someone like Obama and we say tfila lishlom hamidina. We are fortunate that this government allows full dissent - we should do so with respect.

47

 Sep 10, 2009 at 08:26 AM Anonymous Says:

It's truly amazing how jews who have wandered from nation to nation over the centuries and who were admonished to remember that they were strangers in Egypt (where they, as economic migrants found food and shelter) hate immigrants so much. Perhaps all the right wing jews are the true "self-hating" jews because the immigrants they hate so much remind them of themselves. Aren't we supposed to have some compassion? What has our wandering taught us?

48

 Sep 10, 2009 at 08:49 AM PMO Says:

Reply to #25  
5T Resident Says:

This senator yells out at Obama during a speech and the media clobbers him. Some Islamic yahoo throws a shoe at Bush during one of his speeches and he's celebrated in the media as some kind of clear-thinking progressive. What a world we live in.

Can you please provide evidence of your statement? Can you please show which news outlets praised the shoe thrower? I can't find it, and I suspect this is another "made-up" story from the imagination of Glen Beck.

Joe Wilson has no obligation to apologize for his opinion. He certainly has a right to express it even if it is 100% a fabriacation in his own mind (the documented evidence is VERY clear here). The problem here is his complete lack of respect for the President of the United States.... not his disrespect for Obama. If you do not respect the role of the President (or Senator, or Congressman, or any other Constitutionally outlined public servant), you also show that you do not respect the Constitution which is the institution they represent.

49

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:27 AM Anonymous Says:

But Obama was lying!
Particularly when he said the deficit would not rise because of this bill.
He needs to be stopped before he completely destroys this country.

50

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #27  
ASimpleJew Says:

Because the bill does not explicitly provide hospitals and providers from refusing coverage to undocumented and illegal aliens, by default this bill enables the government to cover illegals through the use of such payment Methodologies as the DISH (Disproportionate Share) made to safety net providers.

The larger underlying issue here is that all versions of this bill fails to address the true underlying root causes for the current short comings in our health care system. instead it introduces a new process which will just create a new set of issues without fixing any of the existing set of issues. I have a feeling that It is also probably unconstitutional to force anyone to purchase a product or service they do not wish to purchase. Automobile insurance unlike heath insurance is designed to protect others from harm you may inflict upon them. If I choose to go with out insurance I am harming no one but myself. The law should say if you dont have health insurance and cannot show proof of funds required for treatment then no health care providor is required to treat you, that will encourage people to go out and buy insurance, which will cause risk sharing to increase lowering risk for the insurance companies who can then charge less per patient..

A government healthcare plan will ultimately be another version of socialism or as our illustrious Harvard educated dimwit of a president likes to call it ... wealth distribution. We dont need a government healthcare plan, what we need a reduction in fraud, operating costs, malpractice costs, and tort reform and an increase in liabilities for providers, insurers and patients respectively. One thing I have to say is insurance companies that operate as for profits have a serious conflict of interest.

As for Medicare; if the government spent an additional 25 Million in fraud prevention and investigation we could probably reduce fraud, waste and improper billing by 25% which would easily be a 500 million dollar savings.

Most of this "plan" is nonsense and Washington would be be wise (i know using and "Wise" and "Washington" in the same sentence is ridiculous) to veto the damn thing and redirect their energies toward fixing the system we got today instead of creating new systems which will create new problems which we will need to fix in the future along with the current problems which will likley still be in existence years from now.

Perhaps you should be in Washington, because it seems that you like a lot of us out there who choose to be informed have hit the nail on the head, so too speak. The Obamaination has a totally different agenda, one which is not in consort with the principals this country was founded upon. Thank you for your erudite statement and hopefully other readers of this blog will take their heads out of the sand and see Mr. Obama for what he is, a leftist socialist whose agenda for America is not good!

51

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

What I find particularly troubling is the extraordinary breakdown in basic civility and the negative message that outbursts like this send our children. You don't interrupt and scream while the president is speaking to congress just like you don't interrupt and scream while a teacher is talking. The complete inability of some people to have a civil discussion over important and difficult issues is scary. We see it with people screaming "nazi" and "socialist" and at each other at every drop of a hat and extraordinary fear mongering. It's fueled by talk radio and all the shouters on the cable so called "news" shows. We see all this extreme diatribe and lack of basic civility and decency in many comments on VIN and other news sites. The level of hate and polarization going on is very troubling. We need to return to the days when we have smart, articiulate legislators who can talk to each other even when they disagree, just like McCain and Kennedy or Hatch and Kennedy could talk to each other without name calling.

Maskim. it was a terrible example for children about proper respectfuk behavior and decorum (not some "truth to power" insanity) what does this teach the kids, who just one day ago learned about respect and responsiblity from the president? Anyone here who thinks and praises what wilson did is practicing the very worst kind of chinuch.
derech erez kadman ltorah.

52

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

This guy should get re-elected easily! The Truth Shall Set You FREE! And Nancy 'Pansy' Pelosi... ha ha... you would have thought someone yelled out her low IQ score! Those liberals just kill me... and are trying to you...

this guy should be censure by his own republican colleagues who are cringing in embarassment over his stupidity.

53

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:11 AM Shua Cohen Says:

Reply to #27  
ASimpleJew Says:

Because the bill does not explicitly provide hospitals and providers from refusing coverage to undocumented and illegal aliens, by default this bill enables the government to cover illegals through the use of such payment Methodologies as the DISH (Disproportionate Share) made to safety net providers.

The larger underlying issue here is that all versions of this bill fails to address the true underlying root causes for the current short comings in our health care system. instead it introduces a new process which will just create a new set of issues without fixing any of the existing set of issues. I have a feeling that It is also probably unconstitutional to force anyone to purchase a product or service they do not wish to purchase. Automobile insurance unlike heath insurance is designed to protect others from harm you may inflict upon them. If I choose to go with out insurance I am harming no one but myself. The law should say if you dont have health insurance and cannot show proof of funds required for treatment then no health care providor is required to treat you, that will encourage people to go out and buy insurance, which will cause risk sharing to increase lowering risk for the insurance companies who can then charge less per patient..

A government healthcare plan will ultimately be another version of socialism or as our illustrious Harvard educated dimwit of a president likes to call it ... wealth distribution. We dont need a government healthcare plan, what we need a reduction in fraud, operating costs, malpractice costs, and tort reform and an increase in liabilities for providers, insurers and patients respectively. One thing I have to say is insurance companies that operate as for profits have a serious conflict of interest.

As for Medicare; if the government spent an additional 25 Million in fraud prevention and investigation we could probably reduce fraud, waste and improper billing by 25% which would easily be a 500 million dollar savings.

Most of this "plan" is nonsense and Washington would be be wise (i know using and "Wise" and "Washington" in the same sentence is ridiculous) to veto the damn thing and redirect their energies toward fixing the system we got today instead of creating new systems which will create new problems which we will need to fix in the future along with the current problems which will likley still be in existence years from now.

> A Simple Jew wrote: "the law should say if you don't have health insurance and cannot show proof of funds required for treatment. then no health care provider is required to treat you."

>> Wow! I usually find that you write with a good deal of seichel, but I'm nonplussed by this one. Let us suppose that a struggling kollel yungerman who has no insurance or savings is brought by Hatzolah to the emergency room. Although he's in need of immediate surgical intervention to save his life (r"l), what you wrote clearly advocates that the hospital could legally deny treatment and leave him to die! That is one big CHAS V'SHALOM.

54

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:10 AM Neo Says:

Reply to #35  
karma dude Says:

A nincompoop and ibicile who disrespects this once great nation and its citizens day after day, deserves no respect. Even if he was elected president by a minority of Americans combined with a majority of mexicans.
Obama is owed nothing by anyone in this country, least of all respect. If I hit him with my car by accident, I would not apologize.
If Obama wanted to do the respectful thing, he would apologize to the American people, and take a permanent vacation to Hawai. And he should take his back stabbing boyfriend Rahm with him.

"A nincompoop and ibicile who disrespects this once great nation and its citizens day after day, deserves no respect. Even if he was elected president by a minority of Americans"

You must be talking about George W. Bush!

55

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

Right, because Nancy Pelosi never called President Bush a liar before... or said that the CIA lied to her...

did she ever inteerupt the preident during a joint house address?
please. no comparison.

56

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:08 AM History Says:

Reply to #29  
Anonymous Says:

yea, but Mr Obama ostracizes others who do not beleive like him, and says "they are liers". He is very smooth talker. listen to his speech from yesterday he said others "are liers". his words

Bush and his ronies did the SAME exact thing and it never bothered anyone. he told students "don't listen to anyone who tries to tell you that this war is ill advised and ill planned"
really? telling students how and what to think? thats what facsist do! and the war was ill planned. mission accomplished my foot.

57

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:06 AM Ed Says:

Reply to #25  
5T Resident Says:

This senator yells out at Obama during a speech and the media clobbers him. Some Islamic yahoo throws a shoe at Bush during one of his speeches and he's celebrated in the media as some kind of clear-thinking progressive. What a world we live in.

as long as you keep telling yourself that. and if some dem senator like obama did the same thing to a republican pres like bush, how would you react??? please. spare us your "principles"

58

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:05 AM Dot Says:

Reply to #20  
Pro Life Says:

It's fascinating that some republicans who claim to be pro life only extend their pro life support to fetuses. Once someone is born, they don't want them to have access to lifesaving care if they are an illegal alien. They want hospitals to have to check a person's immigration status before providing care. They also don't want many american citizens to have healthcare either.

Maskim. they wouldnt let the illegal immigrant to have an abortion, but then complain about the welfare baby that is born.

its all incongruous hypocrist. they are pro life and pro death penatly or pro killing ppl affiliated with abortions.

theyd rather abortions be illegal so they can occur unsafely and un sanitarily in back alleys. then they use the backwards argument against gun control , saying gun laws induce black market gun sales.
they are a hypocritical bunch to say the least.


What no one seems to realize is that president obama sounded very much like a fiscal conservative in his speech. on top of that his plan echoes that of president nixon, a huge conservative republican who was most definitwly not a liberal.

59

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:01 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
DA Says:

Once again, an EMBARASSMENT for the state of SC! Very disrespectful of the office of the presidency!!! Let's see if his fellow republican will have to say about this.

john mccain, the mentsh and honest seicheldike man that he is had the right and correct reaction.

too bad the dumb GOP nominated him 8 years too late and gave his rightful nomination in 2000 to a drunken monkey.

60

 Sep 10, 2009 at 08:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #43  
chusid Says:

if you are here illegally and you get hit by a car and have no insurance then yes they should leave you alone

Is this what "chassidus" teaches you?

Your basic lack of empathy for another human being is frightening.

I refer to Sanhedrin 37a which states:
"WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL..., SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD."

61

 Sep 10, 2009 at 08:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Just try to imagine if this scenario were reversed -- if a Democrat had shouted "you lie!" when George Bush was lying to us about weapons of mass destruction at his State of the Union Address. Try to to imagine.
We would never hear the end of it from Republicans exhibiting their phony outrage and lecturing us all all about respect for the "position of the presidency."
Instead, they will make excuses and condone the most blatant breach of congressional protocol that this country has ever seen.
The message is clear: the most basic aspects of derech eretz shall be neglected in the name of political partisanship. I weep for the future of this country.

62

 Sep 10, 2009 at 10:08 AM Shua Cohen Says:

Reply to #61  
Anonymous Says:

Just try to imagine if this scenario were reversed -- if a Democrat had shouted "you lie!" when George Bush was lying to us about weapons of mass destruction at his State of the Union Address. Try to to imagine.
We would never hear the end of it from Republicans exhibiting their phony outrage and lecturing us all all about respect for the "position of the presidency."
Instead, they will make excuses and condone the most blatant breach of congressional protocol that this country has ever seen.
The message is clear: the most basic aspects of derech eretz shall be neglected in the name of political partisanship. I weep for the future of this country.

> "I weep for the future of this country."

>> The U.S. is a sinking ship. But don't weep...sign up with Nefesh B'Nefesh (as I have) and get on their waiting list to leave. The Ribbono Shel Olam is sending us signs everywhere that golus-America is coming to an end. And you don't have to take my word for it. HaRav HaGaon Simcha Wasserman zt"l said (after he made Aliyah, ending his own sojourn in America):

"Yaakov Avinu [said] to his sons, 'I will show you what will happen in the end of days. There will be a 'call!' Hashem will just call us and we'll come.' This is what the Ribbono Shel Olam is showing us in our days. This is what so many of us have experienced. We see it." ["Reb Simcha Speaks, Artscroll, p. 36]

Powerful words, these. Reb Simcha experienced it. Reb Simcha saw it. Reb Simcha left America and made Aliyah. It's time for American Bnei Torah to open their eyes and follow Reb Simcha's example.

63

 Sep 10, 2009 at 10:33 AM harry carrey Says:

obama should invite wilson for a beer

64

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:39 AM Shua Cohen Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

It's truly amazing how jews who have wandered from nation to nation over the centuries and who were admonished to remember that they were strangers in Egypt (where they, as economic migrants found food and shelter) hate immigrants so much. Perhaps all the right wing jews are the true "self-hating" jews because the immigrants they hate so much remind them of themselves. Aren't we supposed to have some compassion? What has our wandering taught us?

Your comment is most insightful. Another aspect to this issue is our complete forgetfulness that we are in golus, i.e. we may be considered full citizens by the laws of the U.S., but in truth, we are only temporary visitors here. This golus mentality will, rachmona litzlan, be the undoing of many Jews. When the geula finally comes (G-d willing, very soon) I fear that many will not be zoche to return to Eretz Yisrael because they too fully consider themselves to be
dyed-in-the-wool "Americans."

Bottom line: the health care reform issue and illegal immigrant issue are really not a priority for us. We are guests here only and, G-d willing, we will be leaving here very soon. If you don't believe this with emunah shlaima then you've got a more serious problem than your agita over illegal immigrants.

65

 Sep 10, 2009 at 11:09 AM anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Way to go Says:

That's my man!! Yeah stand up to the truth!!!.

You and him are one of a kind uncivilized people

66

 Sep 10, 2009 at 11:46 AM Oh4 Says:

Reply to #35  
karma dude Says:

A nincompoop and ibicile who disrespects this once great nation and its citizens day after day, deserves no respect. Even if he was elected president by a minority of Americans combined with a majority of mexicans.
Obama is owed nothing by anyone in this country, least of all respect. If I hit him with my car by accident, I would not apologize.
If Obama wanted to do the respectful thing, he would apologize to the American people, and take a permanent vacation to Hawai. And he should take his back stabbing boyfriend Rahm with him.

You talking about President Bush? Because thats what the description sounds like. you can hate the person all you want, but you must respect the office, especially if you are an elected officer in the chamber of government during government business. Save the heckling for the morning talk shows. You know full well that if it was bush speaking and ir was a democratic senator who shoulted "you lie" at him you would be blasting his disrespectful and inappropriate behavior (even though many ppeopl believe that Bush was a nincompoop and ibicile who disrespected this once great nation and its citizens day after day and deserved no respect.)
But as president, they would still stand up when he comes in the room because of who he is and what he represents.

67

 Sep 10, 2009 at 11:31 AM ASimpleJew Says:

Reply to #53  
Shua Cohen Says:

> A Simple Jew wrote: "the law should say if you don't have health insurance and cannot show proof of funds required for treatment. then no health care provider is required to treat you."

>> Wow! I usually find that you write with a good deal of seichel, but I'm nonplussed by this one. Let us suppose that a struggling kollel yungerman who has no insurance or savings is brought by Hatzolah to the emergency room. Although he's in need of immediate surgical intervention to save his life (r"l), what you wrote clearly advocates that the hospital could legally deny treatment and leave him to die! That is one big CHAS V'SHALOM.

I agree with your concerns. My question to you is why does a Kollel yungerman not have insurance? If he is “employed” by the kollel why isn’t the Kollel providing health benefits? Insurance has to become part of any Kollels reimbursement package. Just like we had a push to get life insurance for all Rebbies, this is no different. Yes there may be less Kollels in operation as result of the higher expenses required. However in my mind that would likely be a good. Fewer Kolles will likely mean increased competition to get into any good Kollel that provides health insurance. Which will result in a Rosh Kollels in having be more selective in choosing their participants. As a result of choosing higher quality students we as a nation will likely get higher quality Rabbi's graduating out of these Kolels… A good thing I think correct?

68

 Sep 10, 2009 at 10:49 AM jackie Says:

Reply to #2  
Truth Says:

Actually Mr. Formally you lie and Wilson is right. They don't offically pay for illegals now, but they cover them after the fact. These illegals use hospitals, clinics (fed funded and regular) and afterwards these places bill our State and Federal gov. They get a lot of the money back. Do you think for one second that these medical centers would treat these people if they knew they weren't getting a cent in return?!

They are forced to b/c of the laws prohibiting them from turning away patients. So you are right, there is a payment although it is a backdoor payment. And one the government will continue to pay.

69

 Sep 10, 2009 at 12:13 PM Toras Moshe Emes Says:

Reply to #1  
formally Says:

I see a republican have gone to a new low.

PS wilson lied it clearly states that no money will go to insure illegal immigrants.
maybe he cannot read

H.R. 3200 includes a provision that specifically says that there will be no federal funds spent to cover illegal immigrants:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

your statement is misleading. The exclusion in section 3200 applies ONLY to illegal immigrants seeking ADDITIONAL "affordability credit" subsidies to help them pay for so called co-op plans. There is absolutely other provisions anywhere in the bill otherwise excluding illegal aliens from participating in the government subsidized co-ops, the government paid public option or from being covered by mandated employer coverage. In fact, democrats voted down TWO amendments that would have done exactly that. The FACT is that illegal aliens WILL be covered under every part of this bill with the SOLE exclusion of receiving direct federal payments in the form of "affordability credits"

Wilson was telling the truth: Obama IS/WAS lying

70

 Sep 10, 2009 at 12:39 PM Truth Says:

Reply to #5  
OMG Says:

The truth is that you are not truthful, what you are pointing to, is how we currently cover everybody who doesn’t have insurance but that doesn’t have anything to do with the any of the five bills that have currently passed in committee therefore you should change your name to untruthful and formally should change his name to truthful

All the libs (You & Formally) come out of the woodwork to spin your web of deceit.
The point is exactly what your saying -they can go to clinics and hospitals and don't have to pay. He doesn't have to change the law regarding this, it's already bad. And that was Wilson's point. Can I just go into a store and take food if I'm hungry? No, it's stealing. But, you bleeding heart libs have mercy on people who have no legal right to be here and say the Taxpayers have to pay for their medical care. You know full & well that if the gov. didn't pick up the tab for their medical care, that the hospital would throw them out on their head, like the hospital in Fla. But you say the law is anyone who can't pay is entitled to Charity Care. True, but the ones with this right is American citizens, not illegals. If someone wants to start a charity that pays their medical bills, then fine. But, don't put your misplaced mercy on the shoulders of all the American taxpayers. Plus, this would solve are illegal immigrant problem. What person would come to live here illegally?- Only the ones who can afford to pay for medical care. This definitely is not the bulk of these people!

71

 Sep 10, 2009 at 12:22 PM educated consumer Says:

Reply to #67  
ASimpleJew Says:

I agree with your concerns. My question to you is why does a Kollel yungerman not have insurance? If he is “employed” by the kollel why isn’t the Kollel providing health benefits? Insurance has to become part of any Kollels reimbursement package. Just like we had a push to get life insurance for all Rebbies, this is no different. Yes there may be less Kollels in operation as result of the higher expenses required. However in my mind that would likely be a good. Fewer Kolles will likely mean increased competition to get into any good Kollel that provides health insurance. Which will result in a Rosh Kollels in having be more selective in choosing their participants. As a result of choosing higher quality students we as a nation will likely get higher quality Rabbi's graduating out of these Kolels… A good thing I think correct?

because until the day that the yeshivishe community wakes up and realizes that they are ruining their own lifestyle, it is going to dwindle and dissipate. every single program and government money option that has helped to enable and sustain the kollel lifestyle are from generous democratic policies and programs.
As long as the frummish communities continue to vote republican out of some feigned sense of piety, they will continue to lose out on their own necessary goverment assistance programs because republicans dont like those generous democratic policies especially for families that are living a kollel lifestyle.

Keep voting for republicans, and very soon the kollel system will dry upentirely cuz no one will be able to afford it.

They might actually have to pay for diapers.

72

 Sep 10, 2009 at 12:07 PM torahyid Says:

i find it interesting that it is always all the anti torah anti rabbonim, anti chareidi bloggers that are the pro obama pro liberal etc. it seems to imply that they go hand in hand

73

 Sep 10, 2009 at 01:20 PM Shua Cohen Says:

Reply to #67  
ASimpleJew Says:

I agree with your concerns. My question to you is why does a Kollel yungerman not have insurance? If he is “employed” by the kollel why isn’t the Kollel providing health benefits? Insurance has to become part of any Kollels reimbursement package. Just like we had a push to get life insurance for all Rebbies, this is no different. Yes there may be less Kollels in operation as result of the higher expenses required. However in my mind that would likely be a good. Fewer Kolles will likely mean increased competition to get into any good Kollel that provides health insurance. Which will result in a Rosh Kollels in having be more selective in choosing their participants. As a result of choosing higher quality students we as a nation will likely get higher quality Rabbi's graduating out of these Kolels… A good thing I think correct?

> "My question to you is why does a Kollel yungerman not have insurance?"

>> My gosh, you missed my point entirely. I was just trying to create an example case of a financially struggling Yid who has no health insurance. It doesn't have to be, davka, a kollel yungerman. So make it a Yid who just got a job in a supermarket and doesn't qualify for his employer's health insurance plan until he has been employed for 6 months. He comes by Hatzalah to the ER without any means to pay. He needs an immediate life-saving operation BUT, according to the law as you propose it, he can be turned away and allowed to die. Do you really advocate such a scenario, chas v'shalom? That was my question to you.

And please don't avoid the question by answering that all supermarket employees should be entitled to health insurance, which will greatly improve the quality of service in our supermarkets. Of course, if you believe this, then you are in fact advocating universal health insurance coverage, which is exactly what Obama is struggling to bring about. If everyone has insurance, no one will be denied medical services and left to suffer and/or die. That's the whole point of health insurance reform, isn't it?

74

 Sep 10, 2009 at 01:05 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #72  
torahyid Says:

i find it interesting that it is always all the anti torah anti rabbonim, anti chareidi bloggers that are the pro obama pro liberal etc. it seems to imply that they go hand in hand

I find it interesting that all torahyidden blast the liberals and sponge off the liberal programs and without these programs your torah world[quetching a bank] would collapse

75

 Sep 10, 2009 at 01:35 PM ASimpleJew Says:

Reply to #73  
Shua Cohen Says:

> "My question to you is why does a Kollel yungerman not have insurance?"

>> My gosh, you missed my point entirely. I was just trying to create an example case of a financially struggling Yid who has no health insurance. It doesn't have to be, davka, a kollel yungerman. So make it a Yid who just got a job in a supermarket and doesn't qualify for his employer's health insurance plan until he has been employed for 6 months. He comes by Hatzalah to the ER without any means to pay. He needs an immediate life-saving operation BUT, according to the law as you propose it, he can be turned away and allowed to die. Do you really advocate such a scenario, chas v'shalom? That was my question to you.

And please don't avoid the question by answering that all supermarket employees should be entitled to health insurance, which will greatly improve the quality of service in our supermarkets. Of course, if you believe this, then you are in fact advocating universal health insurance coverage, which is exactly what Obama is struggling to bring about. If everyone has insurance, no one will be denied medical services and left to suffer and/or die. That's the whole point of health insurance reform, isn't it?

This more generalized Scenario is no different. My underlying point was that there doesn't seem to be responsibility in the Jewish community. Why are allowing our "yungerleight" to come out of HS uneducated. We need to be forcing them to learn a trade that will allow them to get a job that offers the benefits they need, if it as a kollel "yungerleight" God Bless him but the Kollel needs to provide the benefits. Over all of that if the points that I outlined in my original post are undertaken (as well as some that I did not discuss) the cost of health insurance will drop significantly hence there will be no need for a Socialist Health Care Plan. As a result Kollels as well as Supermarket employees will be able to easily afford health insurance.

76

 Sep 10, 2009 at 01:34 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
Toras Moshe Emes Says:

your statement is misleading. The exclusion in section 3200 applies ONLY to illegal immigrants seeking ADDITIONAL "affordability credit" subsidies to help them pay for so called co-op plans. There is absolutely other provisions anywhere in the bill otherwise excluding illegal aliens from participating in the government subsidized co-ops, the government paid public option or from being covered by mandated employer coverage. In fact, democrats voted down TWO amendments that would have done exactly that. The FACT is that illegal aliens WILL be covered under every part of this bill with the SOLE exclusion of receiving direct federal payments in the form of "affordability credits"

Wilson was telling the truth: Obama IS/WAS lying

You and Wilson have the same mentality. Illegals even under Bush were/are covered in an emergency and released in " a stablized condition" neither one of you know what you talking about

77

 Sep 10, 2009 at 01:33 PM Shua Cohen Says:

Reply to #70  
Truth Says:

All the libs (You & Formally) come out of the woodwork to spin your web of deceit.
The point is exactly what your saying -they can go to clinics and hospitals and don't have to pay. He doesn't have to change the law regarding this, it's already bad. And that was Wilson's point. Can I just go into a store and take food if I'm hungry? No, it's stealing. But, you bleeding heart libs have mercy on people who have no legal right to be here and say the Taxpayers have to pay for their medical care. You know full & well that if the gov. didn't pick up the tab for their medical care, that the hospital would throw them out on their head, like the hospital in Fla. But you say the law is anyone who can't pay is entitled to Charity Care. True, but the ones with this right is American citizens, not illegals. If someone wants to start a charity that pays their medical bills, then fine. But, don't put your misplaced mercy on the shoulders of all the American taxpayers. Plus, this would solve are illegal immigrant problem. What person would come to live here illegally?- Only the ones who can afford to pay for medical care. This definitely is not the bulk of these people!

> "Plus, this would solve are illegal immigrant problem."

>> Yo man! You tell 'em dude. Let 'em die. Those illegals, they're deservin' to die man! Just gotta make sure to get them bodies outta the way of the ER doors, so's the good ole USA taxpayin' folks can get in. And that's the truth dude. Says so right in the Torah.

78

 Sep 10, 2009 at 01:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #71  
educated consumer Says:

because until the day that the yeshivishe community wakes up and realizes that they are ruining their own lifestyle, it is going to dwindle and dissipate. every single program and government money option that has helped to enable and sustain the kollel lifestyle are from generous democratic policies and programs.
As long as the frummish communities continue to vote republican out of some feigned sense of piety, they will continue to lose out on their own necessary goverment assistance programs because republicans dont like those generous democratic policies especially for families that are living a kollel lifestyle.

Keep voting for republicans, and very soon the kollel system will dry upentirely cuz no one will be able to afford it.

They might actually have to pay for diapers.

I dont know what being republican or Democrat has to with the kollels and the yeshivish community. My point was about the lack of ownership in todays society regarding responsibility. If Kolells cannot offer health benefits it shouldnt be operating and if th e"yungeleight" cannot afford to pay for it on their own then they need to go out and get trained for a different job that does offer those benefits. The "Atzlus" Mentality is so pervasive and it needs to be cut out.

79

 Sep 10, 2009 at 01:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #78  
Anonymous Says:

I dont know what being republican or Democrat has to with the kollels and the yeshivish community. My point was about the lack of ownership in todays society regarding responsibility. If Kolells cannot offer health benefits it shouldnt be operating and if th e"yungeleight" cannot afford to pay for it on their own then they need to go out and get trained for a different job that does offer those benefits. The "Atzlus" Mentality is so pervasive and it needs to be cut out.

its very simple. he kollel lifestyl relies heavily on certain policies put in place by democrats. thats what it has relied on and thats what has sustained it so to the point that it has. thats why so many young yehsivish couples can do what they do and live as they do without earning much of an income. it is what has enabeled and sustained it to grow to the capacity that it has. why do you think its so prevalent in new york and new jersey but less possible in frum communities in other states and why so many ppl from other states come to ny and nj? its the dems and liberal policies that have enabeled us to have this be possible.
And yet, because of some self righteous atitude of moral superiority, the frum community almost exclusivley voted for hte polticians who are against it all, and will so be responsible for ending what has made the kolel lifestyl possible. and then we will have no one to blame but ourselves.

80

 Sep 10, 2009 at 02:03 PM Brian Says:

Obama did lie. Pure and simple. As he always does. By the way, have you forgotten when Obama accused Bill Clinton of telling 'Bald-Faced Lies'?

81

 Sep 10, 2009 at 02:01 PM Dave Says:

Reply to #75  
ASimpleJew Says:

This more generalized Scenario is no different. My underlying point was that there doesn't seem to be responsibility in the Jewish community. Why are allowing our "yungerleight" to come out of HS uneducated. We need to be forcing them to learn a trade that will allow them to get a job that offers the benefits they need, if it as a kollel "yungerleight" God Bless him but the Kollel needs to provide the benefits. Over all of that if the points that I outlined in my original post are undertaken (as well as some that I did not discuss) the cost of health insurance will drop significantly hence there will be no need for a Socialist Health Care Plan. As a result Kollels as well as Supermarket employees will be able to easily afford health insurance.

Do you carry your insurance card on Shabbos?

Remember that if you don't have proof of insurance with you, even if you have insurance, you could be turned away.

82

 Sep 10, 2009 at 01:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #74  
anonymous Says:

I find it interesting that all torahyidden blast the liberals and sponge off the liberal programs and without these programs your torah world[quetching a bank] would collapse

EXACTLY! hit the nail on the head. too bad most ppl are too tipish to realize the hypocrisy

83

 Sep 10, 2009 at 03:45 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #70  
Truth Says:

All the libs (You & Formally) come out of the woodwork to spin your web of deceit.
The point is exactly what your saying -they can go to clinics and hospitals and don't have to pay. He doesn't have to change the law regarding this, it's already bad. And that was Wilson's point. Can I just go into a store and take food if I'm hungry? No, it's stealing. But, you bleeding heart libs have mercy on people who have no legal right to be here and say the Taxpayers have to pay for their medical care. You know full & well that if the gov. didn't pick up the tab for their medical care, that the hospital would throw them out on their head, like the hospital in Fla. But you say the law is anyone who can't pay is entitled to Charity Care. True, but the ones with this right is American citizens, not illegals. If someone wants to start a charity that pays their medical bills, then fine. But, don't put your misplaced mercy on the shoulders of all the American taxpayers. Plus, this would solve are illegal immigrant problem. What person would come to live here illegally?- Only the ones who can afford to pay for medical care. This definitely is not the bulk of these people!

You see I don’t see a difference between the Mexican who came here illegally and looking to make a living or the religious Jew who came here on a visitors visa and collects money and gets sick I believe that they both equally should get emergency help, without preconditions, maybe you don’t, you would get the hospital’s guards to throw them both out onto the street. If that is your view the I must sat that all the Torah you learn and all the Mitzvahs you might do is meaningless you failed the first test of what a Jew should be rachmonem beni rachmonem so why don’t you just leave us (Jews) alone and find a new religion which conforms to “your religion”

84

 Sep 10, 2009 at 03:34 PM Truth Says:

Reply to #77  
Shua Cohen Says:

> "Plus, this would solve are illegal immigrant problem."

>> Yo man! You tell 'em dude. Let 'em die. Those illegals, they're deservin' to die man! Just gotta make sure to get them bodies outta the way of the ER doors, so's the good ole USA taxpayin' folks can get in. And that's the truth dude. Says so right in the Torah.

I didn't say let them die if it was an emergency, but if they know they aren't getting basic medical care and if it isn't life threating they will have to suffer, they will think twice before they walk over that border for the country who streets are paved with gold taken from the taxpayer.

85

 Sep 10, 2009 at 04:20 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #69  
Toras Moshe Emes Says:

your statement is misleading. The exclusion in section 3200 applies ONLY to illegal immigrants seeking ADDITIONAL "affordability credit" subsidies to help them pay for so called co-op plans. There is absolutely other provisions anywhere in the bill otherwise excluding illegal aliens from participating in the government subsidized co-ops, the government paid public option or from being covered by mandated employer coverage. In fact, democrats voted down TWO amendments that would have done exactly that. The FACT is that illegal aliens WILL be covered under every part of this bill with the SOLE exclusion of receiving direct federal payments in the form of "affordability credits"

Wilson was telling the truth: Obama IS/WAS lying

This is not correct. Illegal aliens will not be able to buy into any of the government sponsored/endorsed/negotiated co-op plans. They can still buy into the exact same plans that they can today. That is not addressed one way or the other in this bill because the bill does not change ANYTHING about the current plans.

THIS bill, which creates the government sponsored/endorsed/negotiated co-op plans (for better or worse) does specifically exclude illegals. The amendment in question would have made it illegal to allow illegals to buy ANY form of insurance. The reason it was shot down is because of those in questionable status. For example, if I am here legally on a work visa and lose my job, I must find another job with another company willing to sponsor me. If this takes more than 72 hours, I am "technically" here illegally. It would mean that if I got sick, even though I have been legal and paying my premiums for years and just waiting for paperwork to be approved, I would immediately lose my health coverage. THAT was the reason for the "no" vote as has been stated many times. Some Democrats asked that a 90 day "grace period" be inserted, but nobody could agree on that either so it was eliminated.

In the end, ALL of the committees decided not to address the issue at all. The current bill excludes illegals from anything that is being addressed in this bill. If you have a problem with the status quo, ask your legislator to specifically pass a law requiring private insurance companies to drop anyone who is illegal. If this is so critical, why have we not seen such a bill being proposed by Republicans? Why? Because it is a phony issue. They know it is a phony issue and they would never propose to tell private businesses who they can and cannot sell to. However it makes a great sound byte for the ignorant folks to cling to.

While I agree that the illegals should be entitled to nothing (including private health insurance) that is not the purpose of this bill, and it never was. It is just another phony issue conjured up by phonies who, with their lies and deceit, give REAL conservatives a bad name.

86

 Sep 10, 2009 at 03:53 PM Brian Says:

Reply to #1  
formally Says:

I see a republican have gone to a new low.

PS wilson lied it clearly states that no money will go to insure illegal immigrants.
maybe he cannot read

H.R. 3200 includes a provision that specifically says that there will be no federal funds spent to cover illegal immigrants:

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

The HR 3200 provsion that you mentioned didn't get enough democrats to pass (almost all republicans did) that provosion into the bill. So In fact HR3200 didn't make it into the bills legislation. So that republican wasn't lying. Obama was.

87

 Sep 10, 2009 at 04:34 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #79  
Anonymous Says:

its very simple. he kollel lifestyl relies heavily on certain policies put in place by democrats. thats what it has relied on and thats what has sustained it so to the point that it has. thats why so many young yehsivish couples can do what they do and live as they do without earning much of an income. it is what has enabeled and sustained it to grow to the capacity that it has. why do you think its so prevalent in new york and new jersey but less possible in frum communities in other states and why so many ppl from other states come to ny and nj? its the dems and liberal policies that have enabeled us to have this be possible.
And yet, because of some self righteous atitude of moral superiority, the frum community almost exclusivley voted for hte polticians who are against it all, and will so be responsible for ending what has made the kolel lifestyl possible. and then we will have no one to blame but ourselves.

Yes you are absolutely and those against Obama are right wing antisemites

88

 Sep 10, 2009 at 06:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
karma dude Says:

A nincompoop and ibicile who disrespects this once great nation and its citizens day after day, deserves no respect. Even if he was elected president by a minority of Americans combined with a majority of mexicans.
Obama is owed nothing by anyone in this country, least of all respect. If I hit him with my car by accident, I would not apologize.
If Obama wanted to do the respectful thing, he would apologize to the American people, and take a permanent vacation to Hawai. And he should take his back stabbing boyfriend Rahm with him.

Illegals can't vote, what are you talking about?

89

 Sep 10, 2009 at 07:42 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #86  
Brian Says:

The HR 3200 provsion that you mentioned didn't get enough democrats to pass (almost all republicans did) that provosion into the bill. So In fact HR3200 didn't make it into the bills legislation. So that republican wasn't lying. Obama was.

You are wrong about that. It is included in all 5 House bills and the 1 Senate Bill. The provision was borrowed (word for word) from the Medicare bill signed into law by George W Bush. Secondly, there has not been a vote on any of the bills yet, so you can be sure that wherever you got the info, it is most certainly not true. Only one of the bills is even out of committee.

90

 Sep 10, 2009 at 09:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

How come illegal children get to go to public school and we pay for it? How come they go to the emergency room and we pay for it? How come if the child is born here, even though the parent is illegal it makes them a US citizen? how come they can get Social Security if their parent dies or is disabled? Food stamps? WIC? And we pay for it? THe system is broken.

I too weep for the future of this country. What Senator Wilson said had to be said. The Federal Government has failed to protect its citizens. It has allowed an invasion which has turned my state (New Jersey) into a third world country. The US as a 'Nation of Immigrants' is a sentimental notion which was formed in the early 20th century when immigrants learned English immediately, required their children to speak it in the home and understood that freedom is earned and sometimes takes many generations to acquire. Why do we pay for benefits for the recently arrived elderly parents of immigrants? (NY Times recent article) Americans are sick and tired of illegal immigrants. Send them home and let them improve their own countries (so fewer of them will come here). They can do that with what they take away from us...our culture, money, English language and job skills.

91

 Sep 11, 2009 at 03:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

Maybe Mr. Wilson felt this was his only opportunity to tell it how it is. After all, if anyone dares to say anything negative about the President, his dog, his policies, his choice of tie, he/she is racist. On national TV no one would publicly accuse him of that as it is so patently not the case.

WHEN are the Dems going to get over the fact that Obama is black? Who cares? I certainly don't. I care that Obama is a Marxist & is killing they country.

Mr. Wilson apologized for basically being rude, but not for his opinions. It was a perfectly acceptable apology. Because he did speak the truth.

No one mentioned race up until your quote!!!! I'm black and my fellow Black friends didn't even look at this as a racist comment or issues. It's an issue of respect for the Pres. of the United States. No Republican or Democrat disrespected Bush during his speeches and none should have done during this speech! Wilson would have had his time after the speech to address concerns to the media about things he felt to be false in Pres. Obama's speech. There's a place and time for everything and that was the wrong time and place to yell out such things! These people are suppose to be mature and he went to an all time low!

92

 Sep 11, 2009 at 01:24 AM me Says:

Reply to #75  
ASimpleJew Says:

This more generalized Scenario is no different. My underlying point was that there doesn't seem to be responsibility in the Jewish community. Why are allowing our "yungerleight" to come out of HS uneducated. We need to be forcing them to learn a trade that will allow them to get a job that offers the benefits they need, if it as a kollel "yungerleight" God Bless him but the Kollel needs to provide the benefits. Over all of that if the points that I outlined in my original post are undertaken (as well as some that I did not discuss) the cost of health insurance will drop significantly hence there will be no need for a Socialist Health Care Plan. As a result Kollels as well as Supermarket employees will be able to easily afford health insurance.

until tort reform passes health care costs will not come down. When an idiot woman is allowed to sue for 5 million dollars because SHE SPILLED COFFE ON HER OWN LAP, but the store didn't label it "hot", the malpractice insurance, extra precautions, etc. all done because liberal democrat lawyer (a special interest group) wants to be able to sue for millions because of nothing, will keep healthcare cost high for the fore seeable future. If congress was comprised of doctors and not lawyers, there might be a chance. But doctors are out trying to earn an honest living while paying obscene malpractice insurance premiums..

93

 Sep 11, 2009 at 12:06 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #84  
Truth Says:

I didn't say let them die if it was an emergency, but if they know they aren't getting basic medical care and if it isn't life threating they will have to suffer, they will think twice before they walk over that border for the country who streets are paved with gold taken from the taxpayer.

this is a country of immigrants. thats hohwo it was built. we are all immigrants. most of us, very recent and new, only one or 3 generations.
for some, this is the only way they can come here.
get over it and stop being so heartless and selfish. you or your parents or grandparents were once like that and maybe it was an easier or different circustance for them .

94

 Sep 11, 2009 at 12:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #80  
Brian Says:

Obama did lie. Pure and simple. As he always does. By the way, have you forgotten when Obama accused Bill Clinton of telling 'Bald-Faced Lies'?

nothing negates or excuses wilson's disrspectful and deplorable behavior. nothing. right or wrong it doesnt matter. othing changes his wholly inappropriate action which surely would have been just as dplorable had he been a dem and the pres a republican.

95

 Sep 10, 2009 at 11:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #70  
Truth Says:

All the libs (You & Formally) come out of the woodwork to spin your web of deceit.
The point is exactly what your saying -they can go to clinics and hospitals and don't have to pay. He doesn't have to change the law regarding this, it's already bad. And that was Wilson's point. Can I just go into a store and take food if I'm hungry? No, it's stealing. But, you bleeding heart libs have mercy on people who have no legal right to be here and say the Taxpayers have to pay for their medical care. You know full & well that if the gov. didn't pick up the tab for their medical care, that the hospital would throw them out on their head, like the hospital in Fla. But you say the law is anyone who can't pay is entitled to Charity Care. True, but the ones with this right is American citizens, not illegals. If someone wants to start a charity that pays their medical bills, then fine. But, don't put your misplaced mercy on the shoulders of all the American taxpayers. Plus, this would solve are illegal immigrant problem. What person would come to live here illegally?- Only the ones who can afford to pay for medical care. This definitely is not the bulk of these people!

if it takes a bleeding heart liberal to treat a human being who needs emergen care and you are against that, it makes you heartless selfish person.

imagine if it was someone you cared about? there are jewish illegals, yknow, they arent all mexican.

96

 Sep 11, 2009 at 11:01 AM American with a voice Says:

I, for one, am ecstatic to see someone finally stand up to our long-winded, agenda-pushing President. He has proven that he couldn't care less what average Americans have to say about his bill. It seems to be that my opinion has been represented in Congress and I'm proud of Senator Wilson. Maybe President Obama should try making a better impression on the people that are in control of voting this bill in.

97

 Sep 11, 2009 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:

it is coming out now that this joe wilson guy is actually a little crazy and has lost self control in the past. he most definitely has anger management issues and doesnt know how to excersize appropriate behavior.

98

 Sep 11, 2009 at 11:07 AM American with a voice Says:

Reply to #95  
Anonymous Says:

if it takes a bleeding heart liberal to treat a human being who needs emergen care and you are against that, it makes you heartless selfish person.

imagine if it was someone you cared about? there are jewish illegals, yknow, they arent all mexican.

Regardless of race, my family struggles directly and indirectly because illegals are siphoning our country of it's resources. I think it's important to note that they are "illegally" in our country...denoting they are criminals. I have no problem with immigrants who come to our country legitimately. By all means, become citizens and contribute to our country.

99

 Sep 11, 2009 at 12:33 PM Truth Says:

Reply to #95  
Anonymous Says:

if it takes a bleeding heart liberal to treat a human being who needs emergen care and you are against that, it makes you heartless selfish person.

imagine if it was someone you cared about? there are jewish illegals, yknow, they arent all mexican.

Read my post #84, stop trying to play on people's emotions- so you can pull the wool over their eyes and push through your communist laws!

100

 Sep 11, 2009 at 12:29 PM Truth Says:

Reply to #93  
Anonymous Says:

this is a country of immigrants. thats hohwo it was built. we are all immigrants. most of us, very recent and new, only one or 3 generations.
for some, this is the only way they can come here.
get over it and stop being so heartless and selfish. you or your parents or grandparents were once like that and maybe it was an easier or different circustance for them .

Enough with your Commie lies. If you don't like it here- move to Cuba! Take all the libs with you. You obviously forgot to mention while on your commie soap box, that I'm talking about people who are here illegally and even so I said they should have emergency care only, nothing more! Also, you must not believe in the rule of law because you can't differentiate between a legal immigrant & an illegal immigrant! Maybe I can come to your house and take whatever I want. After all, you aren't heartless & selfish, so you would gladly give me anything I want.

101

 Sep 11, 2009 at 12:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #96  
American with a voice Says:

I, for one, am ecstatic to see someone finally stand up to our long-winded, agenda-pushing President. He has proven that he couldn't care less what average Americans have to say about his bill. It seems to be that my opinion has been represented in Congress and I'm proud of Senator Wilson. Maybe President Obama should try making a better impression on the people that are in control of voting this bill in.

there is an appropriate time and place. I surely bet that if someone had stood up to Bush like that during onwe of his many lies, you wouldnt be applauding someon for standing up to the president,. but you would be blasting his disrespectful inappaorpriate behavior, which is all any rational sane human being should say about wilson. the time and place for him to stand up to the president was not to throw a show at his face in front of the whole house and country, which is what he did.
willson should be censured and made an example of lack of derech eretz. anyone who applauds him is practicing bad chinuch. i pity your children.

102

 Sep 11, 2009 at 12:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #98  
American with a voice Says:

Regardless of race, my family struggles directly and indirectly because illegals are siphoning our country of it's resources. I think it's important to note that they are "illegally" in our country...denoting they are criminals. I have no problem with immigrants who come to our country legitimately. By all means, become citizens and contribute to our country.

u think the cubans coming on floating cars have a better way to get here? the chinese on the boats? please

103

 Sep 11, 2009 at 12:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #98  
American with a voice Says:

Regardless of race, my family struggles directly and indirectly because illegals are siphoning our country of it's resources. I think it's important to note that they are "illegally" in our country...denoting they are criminals. I have no problem with immigrants who come to our country legitimately. By all means, become citizens and contribute to our country.

for some it is the only way. be thankful that tohose who came through ellis did so "legally". who decides whats legal? was the first wave of settlers legal because they were lucky enough to be born then and come on the ships? orthe slaves who were forced to come here? not all "illegals" are mexican or cuban, some are jewish too.
get over yourself. help legalize them and help make them legal. the alternative is sending them back where they came from, and who wants that on their consience?

104

 Sep 11, 2009 at 01:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #100  
Truth Says:

Enough with your Commie lies. If you don't like it here- move to Cuba! Take all the libs with you. You obviously forgot to mention while on your commie soap box, that I'm talking about people who are here illegally and even so I said they should have emergency care only, nothing more! Also, you must not believe in the rule of law because you can't differentiate between a legal immigrant & an illegal immigrant! Maybe I can come to your house and take whatever I want. After all, you aren't heartless & selfish, so you would gladly give me anything I want.

sad...so so sad. are you a frumme yid? you are a busha to us all. you know how yidden lived for so long? why would you deny the generosity and the opportunity afforded to you by this great country to live work and flourish and practice freely as you have and do - why oh why would you deny it to others ? sad , so sad. theres nothing communitst about the sentiment, you dont even know what the word means. it called being a bnasic human.

why dont you go to cuba, for one day and then be thankful you are an american.

105

 Sep 13, 2009 at 02:14 AM Truth Says:

Reply to #104  
Anonymous Says:

sad...so so sad. are you a frumme yid? you are a busha to us all. you know how yidden lived for so long? why would you deny the generosity and the opportunity afforded to you by this great country to live work and flourish and practice freely as you have and do - why oh why would you deny it to others ? sad , so sad. theres nothing communitst about the sentiment, you dont even know what the word means. it called being a bnasic human.

why dont you go to cuba, for one day and then be thankful you are an american.

When you replied to me you forgot to include your address, so I can come over and take whatever I NEED! BTW, the frum Jews never believed in communism, it was only the reformed.

106

 Sep 17, 2009 at 05:59 PM Yes we can Says:

Reply to #35  
karma dude Says:

A nincompoop and ibicile who disrespects this once great nation and its citizens day after day, deserves no respect. Even if he was elected president by a minority of Americans combined with a majority of mexicans.
Obama is owed nothing by anyone in this country, least of all respect. If I hit him with my car by accident, I would not apologize.
If Obama wanted to do the respectful thing, he would apologize to the American people, and take a permanent vacation to Hawai. And he should take his back stabbing boyfriend Rahm with him.

it's unfortunate that there are still people who refuse to participate in any progress.We the people will do it w/o them. You can think and write whatever you want, it's part of the constitution of this great country. The President does not have to apologize for doing the best he possibly can to fix issues like healthcare. As far as I remember, no other President has ever succeeded in that topic. I am pretty sure that people like you would be glad to see him fall into that category. Do you have a better idea? please go on so we can make a progress. If not, well!!! I would gently shut up as we'll understand that sometimes people like yourself don't have no idea of what time it is.
Very best

107

 Sep 17, 2009 at 06:14 PM yes we can Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

How come illegal children get to go to public school and we pay for it? How come they go to the emergency room and we pay for it? How come if the child is born here, even though the parent is illegal it makes them a US citizen? how come they can get Social Security if their parent dies or is disabled? Food stamps? WIC? And we pay for it? THe system is broken.

Please find out how your parents or great grand parents entered this country and ....you'll probably find the answers. But I do apologize if you are a native American.

108

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