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New York - VIN Exclusive: Iranian President Refused To Meet With Neturei Karta

Published on: September 30, 2009 10:42 AM
By: VIN News By David Gold
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in 2007 Ahmadinejad at meeting with Neturei Karta in New York (Reuters)in 2007 Ahmadinejad at meeting with Neturei Karta in New York (Reuters)

New York - VIN News has learned from high-ranking Iranian officials that a New York meeting between President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and members of the radical anti-Zionist Neturei Karta group was canceled at-the behest of Ahmadinejad himself.

Neturei Karta members reportedly were scrambling to secure a meeting with Ahmadinejad himself during his recent visit to New York for the U.N. meeting.  Hope seemed “lost” until the group actually succeeded in arranging for a face-to-face with the firebrand head of state-only to have that meeting suddenly canceled, by no less than Ahmadinejad himself.

According to VIN’s sources, it is said that the Iranian president has lost total interest in the Neturai Karta, and views them as zealots with no serious following within the Jewish community.

Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss of Neturei Karta confirmed to VIN News that their group did not meet last week with Ahmadinejad, but declined to provide a reason.

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Two years ago, members of the group scored international headlines, and a fierce firestorm to match, when they appeared at a Holocaust-denial conference in Teheran to publicly and literally embrace Ahmadinejad. The group has also met Ahmadinejad  in 2007 while visiting New York.

Meanwhile nowadays, Famous Austrian Rabbi Moishe Arye Friedman, the formerly high-ranking official who facilitated that infamous event, has done teshuvah.  As described in an exclusive interview with VIN, the activist no longer agrees with the NK’s philosophy, and believes what most said about it for decades: that it is a dangerously foolhardy calculation for a handful of extremists to claim international Torah Jewish representation, especially on such a critical issue as the safety and security of fellow Jews-not to mention a humiliating chilul Hashem.

Rabbi Friedman is reputedly using his connections and influence in high ranks of the International Community places to now thwart, not facilitate, publicity-heavy meetings between members of the group and Ensure the good Image on the Jewish community on the International Arena.


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Read Comments (60)  —  Post Yours »

2

 Sep 30, 2009 at 10:51 AM Reb Amram Bloiy Says:

Although most commentors will certainly rejoice at this development, I think this does not bode too well for us. B/c in the end of the day he always looked at nk as jews and now he won't even meet with the few jews that he has met in the past.

3

 Sep 30, 2009 at 10:53 AM Anonymous Says:

If NK themselves don’t understand that they don’t belong with those terrorists, the terrorists themselves will have to tell it to them in their face. How embarrassing this must be for them!

4

 Sep 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM seen it all Says:

I guess ahmadinejad ym"sh is crazy but not an idiot like the NK.

5

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Did they REALLY believe that Ahmadinejad was their Buddy!! REALLY!!!
RAHI, " DIN HU ESAV SONEH YAKOV"!
When bombs fall it won't just fall and only hit TZIONIM, Litvish, Yeshivish, Chassidim, Separdim or just plain old shomre torah umetzvos "unaffiliated" yidden!

IT WILL HIT NK"S TOO!
Hashem Yerachaeim!

6

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:03 AM willi Says:

lets hope this will finally show them how wrong and crooked they are.

7

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:08 AM ShatzMatz Says:

Oy gevald! Ahmadinijad became a Tzioni!

8

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:21 AM Anonymous Says:

These are not NK . Thery hijacked the name . They are a handful of kooks . maybe 10 or so . The real NK has nothing to do with them . Not agreeing with the the secular zionist medinah ,does not mean meeting with people who want to kill millions of your brothers r"l .

9

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM Anonymous Says:

I guess Ahmedisanutjob has tired from these useful idiots....

10

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM Anonymous Says:

Oy, the NK lost what little "kavod" they had. They can now return to the dust heap.

11

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
ShatzMatz Says:

Oy gevald! Ahmadinijad became a Tzioni!

oh vei is mir, what a tzistarta tzeit

12

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:38 AM Anonymous Says:

hamoser ein lo chelek le-olam haba

13

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:37 AM Anonymous Says:

He is gchapted in tzyones

14

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Yeah, I was a demonstration last week in Manhattan and even the Goyim that were just observing knew that Weiss Group does not represent basic Orthodox Jews.

15

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Wow, even A-jad sees NK are screwy mishaganes!

16

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:08 PM YOELY Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

These are not NK . Thery hijacked the name . They are a handful of kooks . maybe 10 or so . The real NK has nothing to do with them . Not agreeing with the the secular zionist medinah ,does not mean meeting with people who want to kill millions of your brothers r"l .

there two parts in NK,they split up before many years, one accepts the arab flag in jeruslem and one dosent, for they dont agree with jew killers, but both dont want israel to exsist, they wanto like stamar ++ live peacfull with the arabs, and we did that for thosands of years, hope one day we will not give,them more reason,to wanto kill us.

17

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:11 PM Hirshel,Monsey Chabad Says:

Neturei Karta would have met with Hitler if they had existed at the time.
The time has come to pressure Satmar to forcefully kick them out of their midst.Same thing for Chabad who have to forcefully kick out their yellow troublemakers

18

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:51 PM LOL Says:

'Vavdil eschem min haamim lihiyos li'
We always had to pay a high price for those of us who "cozied up" to our enemies

19

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
YOELY Says:

there two parts in NK,they split up before many years, one accepts the arab flag in jeruslem and one dosent, for they dont agree with jew killers, but both dont want israel to exsist, they wanto like stamar ++ live peacfull with the arabs, and we did that for thosands of years, hope one day we will not give,them more reason,to wanto kill us.

Nu, if you want to live peacefully with the Arabs, BOTH segments of the NK should move out of Eretz Yisroel and move to Saudia Arabia!

20

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:44 PM what Says:

FOOOOOOOOOLLLLLS!! and now even the NK can't appease him! This is a great warning for us! Take heed!! Imagine if Mordichai Hatzadik wasn't able to come close to the rusha Achashvayrosh!?

21

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:44 PM Just wondering Says:

What is the purpose of these meetings? What are they trying to accomplish, other than make a statement and show solidarity?

22

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Reb Amram Bloiy Says:

Although most commentors will certainly rejoice at this development, I think this does not bode too well for us. B/c in the end of the day he always looked at nk as jews and now he won't even meet with the few jews that he has met in the past.

he saw that they are nothing in the jewish world so why waest his time

23

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:41 PM merkin Says:

I am not a psychiatrist. But if I had to guess, I would say that the NK people are just misfits who enjoy the attention they otherwise would not have. If they were just regular Jews, no one would notice them. They have no real accomplishments other than advocating stupidity and rishis.

24

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:38 PM Awww Says:

Poor NK, being rejected by their big friend, the Hitler y"s of our time. They must feel so bad about themselves.

To 17: Please don't compare apples and roaches. There is no similarity between NK who side with mass murderers of Jews, and frum Jews who might take their Moshiach excitement to an extreme. One is about endangering human life, and one is about a theological view you disagree with. Please.

25

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:27 PM I wrote this 2 years ago Says:

This is exactly what I commented here on VIN 2 years ago. I said that they should be careful with their new friend because it's all a game to see which way the wind will blow for this delusional monster, Ahmadinijad. He will never like any jew, regardless of affiliation. He wants to obliterate all of us. Hence, I am elated that this had happened. Now the nituray karta is a total loss: no friends in Iran, and no friends in Klal Yisrael. They will finally realize that the Rshoim are all the same, in Gaza and Iran.

26

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:25 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
ShatzMatz Says:

Oy gevald! Ahmadinijad became a Tzioni!

No but in Teblinka were gassed tzionis, bundisten, agudisten, stam erliche yidden and atheists all inhaled the same Zyklon B, and adaminijad does not fundamentally distinguish nor would his rockets chas v'sholem

27

 Sep 30, 2009 at 12:14 PM Dr. Dave Says:

Silly Neturei Kappos. Hitler killed all the Jews he could, the collaborators as well as the resistors.

28

 Sep 30, 2009 at 01:44 PM No Fanatic Says:

was it not only two days ago that we davened "Uv'chein tain pachdecha..... ve'yira'ucha KOL hamasim" etc. Now that the tefilois have been partially answered, lets daven that they will be answered in its entirety and ah-jad ym"sh will also have Yirah for the boirei oilam!, with the final show to the world who the real mighty one is!
AMEN.

Wishing all readers a Chag Sameach

29

 Sep 30, 2009 at 02:25 PM what a chillel hashem Says:

I wonder if he will return all the gifts he got from the NK... Expensive silver, no less.

30

 Sep 30, 2009 at 02:24 PM Robert Says:

Rashi states
"oi l'rasaha v' oi l'shcheino"

or as i understand it
if you meet with pigs, you will soon stink.

31

 Sep 30, 2009 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Hirshel,Monsey Chabad Says:

Neturei Karta would have met with Hitler if they had existed at the time.
The time has come to pressure Satmar to forcefully kick them out of their midst.Same thing for Chabad who have to forcefully kick out their yellow troublemakers

Wake up . these people or kooks have as much to do with Satmar as you do . satmar or any other Chassidus has absolutely no Hashpoah on them . They are about 10 to 20 renegades that listen to nobody . They enjoy attention . Believe me there are more than 20 kooks in every kehila including the Modern Orthodox ,but nobody gives them attention . If not for the media nobody would know they exist

32

 Sep 30, 2009 at 03:08 PM zaide Says:

The first to throw out these Meshguim was the Vizhnitzer Rebbe OBM. They made a rebellion against the Rav who is now the Rebbe he should have a Refua Shleima. It was in 1963 after he took them in fed them clothed them married them off & they spit him in the face. I'm not surprised they joined Assmedinijad they were Kofi Toiva which is the lowest madreiga you can get.

33

 Sep 30, 2009 at 03:01 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #2  
Reb Amram Bloiy Says:

Although most commentors will certainly rejoice at this development, I think this does not bode too well for us. B/c in the end of the day he always looked at nk as jews and now he won't even meet with the few jews that he has met in the past.

This is based on the Neturei Karta’s perception that they are today’s Rabbon Yochanan Ben Zakkei’s who need to meet today’s Aspasyonus (Vespasian). In reality every Neturei Kartenik considers himself a Gilgul of Rabbon Ben Zakkei no less! They have no leader to guide them, no comprehensive philosophy, and everyone is his own man who for this agenda (Kanohi Ledover Echod) is ready to be Oiker the whole Torah. They say that “Esov Soineh LeYakov” is Agadeta, but Sholosh Shvuos is a Halacha! Nisht Stam Halacha, but it replaces the three (Sholosh) Aveires that are Beyeherag Ve’al Yavor. If you are Oiver on Kol Hatorah Kiloi, including, Avodah Zoroh, Gilu Aroyois, Shfuchas Domim, you can still be my friend, but if you Teitch and understand the Gemora of Sholoish Shvuois one iota different then me, then you are my enemy... Veani Matir Es Besarchem! Every word in the Torah has Ayin Ponim to it, but the Agadeta of Sholoish Shvuois has one Pshat and one Pshat only, which is the do all and end all of the entire Torah.

I am NOT a Zionist, but it’s not based on the Shloish Shvyois; it is based on Ruach Yisroel Sovah, who did not envision this as our Geulah at all. The great Gaon the Avnei Neizer (son in law of the Heiliger Kotzker) who was NOT a Zionist, writes in his Sefer that the Sholoish Shvuois is Agadeta and NOT Halacha. The Satmarer Rebbe had a right to his opinion as the Avnei Neizer to his, and NO ONE has a right to say that one or the other is Apikorsus.

Now in the year 5770 (yes, 5770), the whole Inyan of the Sholoish Shvuois has become purely academic, as a Medinah is a Metziyus. How to deal with the current situation is a mind difference between many Gedolei Yisroel, from Satmar to Reb Avadye Yosef; but the opinion of the Neturei Karta is anything but Judaism. It has no foundation in our Torah at all.

34

 Sep 30, 2009 at 03:18 PM Chossid Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

These are not NK . Thery hijacked the name . They are a handful of kooks . maybe 10 or so . The real NK has nothing to do with them . Not agreeing with the the secular zionist medinah ,does not mean meeting with people who want to kill millions of your brothers r"l .

You can say that to you are blue in the face, but most Jews do not see a difference between these lunies and the neturei karta, or for that matter with Satmar ( with their loud (and in my opinion, ridiculous) protests, particularly of late.

A good friend of mine has been a philantrophist to Satmar, Viznitz. He is cutting off all funding after witnessing a recent anti-Israel, anti-Hadassah rally. To him, the Ahmadinejad group, the NK and Satmar are are all the same...

35

 Sep 30, 2009 at 03:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

Wake up . these people or kooks have as much to do with Satmar as you do . satmar or any other Chassidus has absolutely no Hashpoah on them . They are about 10 to 20 renegades that listen to nobody . They enjoy attention . Believe me there are more than 20 kooks in every kehila including the Modern Orthodox ,but nobody gives them attention . If not for the media nobody would know they exist

Not true. Posters of the NK calling for protest were hanging in Satmar Rodney and no one tore it down. This would have never happened when the Satmarer rebbe reb Yoel would have been alive. A lot of Zaloinim support the NK.

36

 Sep 30, 2009 at 04:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
Anonymous Says:

Wake up . these people or kooks have as much to do with Satmar as you do . satmar or any other Chassidus has absolutely no Hashpoah on them . They are about 10 to 20 renegades that listen to nobody . They enjoy attention . Believe me there are more than 20 kooks in every kehila including the Modern Orthodox ,but nobody gives them attention . If not for the media nobody would know they exist

>Believe me there are more than 20 kooks in every kehila including the Modern Orthodox ,but nobody gives them attention . If not for the media nobody would know they exist< I already saw NK on a number of occassions just by chance, like the last time I was in Washington DC.

37

 Sep 30, 2009 at 05:04 PM Ahmedinijad saw this too late Says:

Amadinijad, finally, after many years of socializing with these fanatics, came to the realization that only a handful of (20) jews believe in the so called, "Peaceful dismanteling of the state of Israel" , because they follow this self hating jew, Mosha David Weiss, or whatever his name is. As soon as reality set in, he noticed that the nituray karta aren't helping him a lot, he dropped them like a hot potato.

The Nituray karta with all of their so called wisdom and rambling on cable TV (with utter chilull Hashem) about the Torah law, didn't even dream that perhaps one day, the Ayatollas will turn against them.

38

 Sep 30, 2009 at 05:12 PM Tumler Says:

At least one of them have Yiras Shamayim

39

 Sep 30, 2009 at 05:33 PM helping Says:

Hashem is helping NK to see things clearer and do teshuvah

40

 Sep 30, 2009 at 06:10 PM when Says:

Reply to #20  
what Says:

FOOOOOOOOOLLLLLS!! and now even the NK can't appease him! This is a great warning for us! Take heed!! Imagine if Mordichai Hatzadik wasn't able to come close to the rusha Achashvayrosh!?

please tell us all when you received your Riach HaKoydesh (or would it be more like Riach HaKokosh) that you have the gall to compare a Novi, a member of the heyliga sahedrin, as well as a member of the Anshay K'nesses HaGedola to people who just about all will say are missing more than their fair share of shraflich.

morderchai HATZADIK (as he is referred to) is probably turning over in his grave over your comparison.

41

 Sep 30, 2009 at 06:08 PM Miss Williamsburg Says:

Reply to #34  
Chossid Says:

You can say that to you are blue in the face, but most Jews do not see a difference between these lunies and the neturei karta, or for that matter with Satmar ( with their loud (and in my opinion, ridiculous) protests, particularly of late.

A good friend of mine has been a philantrophist to Satmar, Viznitz. He is cutting off all funding after witnessing a recent anti-Israel, anti-Hadassah rally. To him, the Ahmadinejad group, the NK and Satmar are are all the same...

Sadly your friend is very misguided. Satmar has nothing with NK only a philosophy which seems similar if you don't bother going to deep to differentiate how different their philosophies actually are. But I can't believe he thinks Viznits and NK are all the same. That's truly misguided.
So now, when I tell someone like your friend that I live in Williamsburg, to him I'll be one and the same as Neturei Karta. LOL. Am I supposed to laugh or cry?

42

 Sep 30, 2009 at 07:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
what Says:

FOOOOOOOOOLLLLLS!! and now even the NK can't appease him! This is a great warning for us! Take heed!! Imagine if Mordichai Hatzadik wasn't able to come close to the rusha Achashvayrosh!?

Mordechai's coming close to Achashveirosh was not what saved the jews. Rather it was Esther's marriage to Achashveirosh. Anyway, Hashem is the One who protects us and delivers us from our enemies. Not idiots who befriend those who wish to destroy us.

43

 Sep 30, 2009 at 08:20 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

Did they REALLY believe that Ahmadinejad was their Buddy!! REALLY!!!
RAHI, " DIN HU ESAV SONEH YAKOV"!
When bombs fall it won't just fall and only hit TZIONIM, Litvish, Yeshivish, Chassidim, Separdim or just plain old shomre torah umetzvos "unaffiliated" yidden!

IT WILL HIT NK"S TOO!
Hashem Yerachaeim!

By no possible stretch of the imagination could Ahmedinijad, Y'S, be considered a descendant of Eisav. Of course, he's still a bad guy.

44

 Sep 30, 2009 at 08:18 PM what Says:

Reply to #40  
when Says:

please tell us all when you received your Riach HaKoydesh (or would it be more like Riach HaKokosh) that you have the gall to compare a Novi, a member of the heyliga sahedrin, as well as a member of the Anshay K'nesses HaGedola to people who just about all will say are missing more than their fair share of shraflich.

morderchai HATZADIK (as he is referred to) is probably turning over in his grave over your comparison.

I'll compare anything I want big man. WE don't live in the Novis times. However there are kahnoyim in every generation. AND MOST JEWS DON"T LIKE THEM!! Even Mordichia was not likeed by some of his temporaries, just check the last posuk in Migilas Ester. V'rotzu L'ROIV echov" not L'chol echov. Pinchas was almost killed by people from Shevet Levi, for his 'kanois'.
We learn from Yakov Oveenu that along with t'fila and an army one must "chanfa" or bribe ones enemy. Giving presents to that idiot may go have gone a long way, who knows, of him not hurting Jews. Now what will be? I remember seeing a picture of some Jewish big shot giving Hillary Clinton a Chanuka Menorah. Now what exactly is she supposed to do with that? I won't anwer my own question there. But it is to Chanfa her.

45

 Sep 30, 2009 at 07:32 PM Trying hard Says:

Reply to #41  
Miss Williamsburg Says:

Sadly your friend is very misguided. Satmar has nothing with NK only a philosophy which seems similar if you don't bother going to deep to differentiate how different their philosophies actually are. But I can't believe he thinks Viznits and NK are all the same. That's truly misguided.
So now, when I tell someone like your friend that I live in Williamsburg, to him I'll be one and the same as Neturei Karta. LOL. Am I supposed to laugh or cry?

I think he meant that both NK and these satmar fanatics have 1 thing in common. Make a chillul Hashem. The greater the better. Maybe its even a competition. NK do it by arranging meeting with yemach shemoi, whilst stamar do it by making a public nuisance "l'shem shamayim" fighting against a car park open on shabbos.
Both should lead by example, make the kiddush Hashem, and maybe others will then be temptd to follow.
Right now they are isolating themselves, creating more sina'a when we really need more achdus to bring moshiach.
So to ALL NK's and satmarers out there, GET REAL!

46

 Sep 30, 2009 at 10:32 PM Anonymous Says:

You think this weiss is normal now, he just did "teshuvah" yo get more attention.

47

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:30 PM Anonymous Says:

This doesn't change the fact that Neturei Karta continues to use Judaism and the Torah against Israel when they are not part of main stream Judaism but a fringe radical group of zealots. I also don't see a big difference between NK and Satmar radical interpretations of the Torah against Israel.

48

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:06 PM Anonymous Says:

maybe it's because that Friedman person did teshuvah, as the article says, and changed his mind about all that stuff, that Ach. doesn't like them anymore....

49

 Sep 30, 2009 at 11:55 PM when Says:

Reply to #44  
what Says:

I'll compare anything I want big man. WE don't live in the Novis times. However there are kahnoyim in every generation. AND MOST JEWS DON"T LIKE THEM!! Even Mordichia was not likeed by some of his temporaries, just check the last posuk in Migilas Ester. V'rotzu L'ROIV echov" not L'chol echov. Pinchas was almost killed by people from Shevet Levi, for his 'kanois'.
We learn from Yakov Oveenu that along with t'fila and an army one must "chanfa" or bribe ones enemy. Giving presents to that idiot may go have gone a long way, who knows, of him not hurting Jews. Now what will be? I remember seeing a picture of some Jewish big shot giving Hillary Clinton a Chanuka Menorah. Now what exactly is she supposed to do with that? I won't anwer my own question there. But it is to Chanfa her.

where is your daas torah to support you? btw pinchas was almost killed by shevet shimon (zimri was from shimon, wasnt he?).


and one more thing, i dont think ANYONE would consider me "big."

50

 Oct 01, 2009 at 05:36 AM Rochel Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

This doesn't change the fact that Neturei Karta continues to use Judaism and the Torah against Israel when they are not part of main stream Judaism but a fringe radical group of zealots. I also don't see a big difference between NK and Satmar radical interpretations of the Torah against Israel.

These people know nothing about judaism, they have made their anti-zionist ideology an entire religion. They used the Vayoel Moshe of the Satmar Rebbe as a unique guideline to prove that they are saying the truth about anti-zionist view of judaism but in the difference that the Satmar Rebbe didn't hate his own people and didn't mix with the ennemies and those who publicly say that they hate and want to see Jews dead.
I wouldn't speak in the name of the Satmar Rebbe especially because I'm not even Satmar but I have a deep respect for him and tend to follow a bit of his teachings and I do believe that his beliefs on opposition to Zionism were only for protection of our people and ahavas yisroel not just a fight against a State just for fun or craziness like these fanatic people THAT IS THE BIG DIFFERENCE.
This insane group of people should be send in cherem

51

 Oct 01, 2009 at 10:51 AM what Says:

Reply to #49  
when Says:

where is your daas torah to support you? btw pinchas was almost killed by shevet shimon (zimri was from shimon, wasnt he?).


and one more thing, i dont think ANYONE would consider me "big."

I meant Shevat Shimon. I was thinking Shimon V'Levi Achim and I wrote Levi by accident. "Where is my daas Torah". Listen to Rabbi Avigdor Miller tape on "kanois" . He describes there the whole "inyin" in which he says and I quote "You have to love the Neturay Karta" He compares there zeal and their taking up for Hashems kovod and also uses other examples of "kanioyis" . Etc. etc. Now I admit he said this about 30 years ago and I don't know if he would think differently today but knowing Rabbi Miller Z"tl as I did, I doubt it.
Now someone told me that the Munkatcher Rebbe said SOMEONE should go talk to that roshah Achmanadinajad, but not the NK. So I went and asked him what he meant by this. After discussing it with him I told him "you're right, they shouldn't go. But why don't you go??!! He looked at me. Huh? "That's right you go" Of course we spoke in Yiddish. Then he answered me, "who vants to go der it's dangerous" . "Oh dus iz nisht kein teritz". My point being they the NK were putting there life on the line to hasten the comming of Moshiach and at the same time appeasing the enemy. Nebech it looks like Hashem has other plans. BTW I didn't mean to insult you. I was upset when I replied. Shulem

52

 Oct 01, 2009 at 02:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Could someone please explain the huge preoccupation with a relatively tiny group[ of Jews and their problems when events concerning much larger groups of Jews goes ignored????

53

 Oct 01, 2009 at 04:53 PM N Says:

Reply to #51  
what Says:

I meant Shevat Shimon. I was thinking Shimon V'Levi Achim and I wrote Levi by accident. "Where is my daas Torah". Listen to Rabbi Avigdor Miller tape on "kanois" . He describes there the whole "inyin" in which he says and I quote "You have to love the Neturay Karta" He compares there zeal and their taking up for Hashems kovod and also uses other examples of "kanioyis" . Etc. etc. Now I admit he said this about 30 years ago and I don't know if he would think differently today but knowing Rabbi Miller Z"tl as I did, I doubt it.
Now someone told me that the Munkatcher Rebbe said SOMEONE should go talk to that roshah Achmanadinajad, but not the NK. So I went and asked him what he meant by this. After discussing it with him I told him "you're right, they shouldn't go. But why don't you go??!! He looked at me. Huh? "That's right you go" Of course we spoke in Yiddish. Then he answered me, "who vants to go der it's dangerous" . "Oh dus iz nisht kein teritz". My point being they the NK were putting there life on the line to hasten the comming of Moshiach and at the same time appeasing the enemy. Nebech it looks like Hashem has other plans. BTW I didn't mean to insult you. I was upset when I replied. Shulem

"NK were putting there life on the line to hasten the comming of Moshiach"
Prove it.

" and at the same time appeasing the enemy. "
That is not their intention. They are agreeing with, encouraging and joining the enemy!

"We learn from Yakov Oveenu that along with t'fila and an army one must "chanfa" or bribe ones enemy."

There is no comparison. They are not fighting against Ahmadinejad. They are joining his fight against Israel.

54

 Oct 01, 2009 at 05:44 PM what Says:

Reply to #53  
N Says:

"NK were putting there life on the line to hasten the comming of Moshiach"
Prove it.

" and at the same time appeasing the enemy. "
That is not their intention. They are agreeing with, encouraging and joining the enemy!

"We learn from Yakov Oveenu that along with t'fila and an army one must "chanfa" or bribe ones enemy."

There is no comparison. They are not fighting against Ahmadinejad. They are joining his fight against Israel.

You're out of your mind.
a)going there is putting their life on the line
b)This is exactly their intention! You don't know what you are talking about.
c)They are (were) there to keep him from attacking Israel in their own way.

55

 Oct 01, 2009 at 05:38 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
Anonymous Says:

Could someone please explain the huge preoccupation with a relatively tiny group[ of Jews and their problems when events concerning much larger groups of Jews goes ignored????

This is a tiny group of Jews full of sina , ungestopt mit Geld who are capable to make a huge splash. They present the same argument I heard in 1939. Die Ostjuden versus the Westjuden at the end neither one did very well

56

 Oct 01, 2009 at 11:58 PM Galya Says:

Jews are Jews no matter what silly things they do, and we have to realize,and practice love for each other and understand each other and finally UNITE! If we don't, this nonsence hatred against us will be going on forever! We have to stop talking trash about our fellow Jews and become one nation!

57

 Oct 02, 2009 at 06:14 AM matzahlocal101 Says:

It's a shame that it needs to be said, but let's clarify some basic facts. There is ahavas Yisroel, there is ahavas ha-aretz, and there is secular Zionism. The three are absolutley independant and have nothing to with each other. The biggest anti Zionistic kanoim, (Which included the Chofetz Chaim) did want to Jews to be killed or hurt because they were Zionists. Reb Aryeh Leib z"l (the son of the Chofetz Chaim) relates, that although mikvaos were one of the CC's pet projects, to everyone's amazement, he once refrained from going to inspect a mikvah in a certain town for 3 weeks. One day, leaving shul, he hailed a wagon got on and rode off. He returned shortly thereafter and explained: The Rov of that town was a Mizrachist. If he went to the town and did not meet with the rabbi he would be pogaya in the rabbi's kavod. But he didn't want to meet with the rabbi at all because he was a mizrachist. Leaving shul he remebered that this week was the world zionist congress and surely that rabbi would be there. He therefore quickly went to inspect the mikvah and he was able to not meet with the rabbi and at the same time not be pogaya in his kavod because he wasn't there. - Darkei Avi z"l
Unlike the Chofetz Chaim, the poster here seem to think that their disagreement with the position taken by almost all gedolei Yisroel also requires them to be pogaya in their kavod as well.

Second story. The Satmar Roov zt"l was once sitting at a Satmar dinner near Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan with DPM's aid, David Luchins, (now of Touro) sitting between them. It was the week before the senat voted on the sale of AWACs to Saudi Arabia and the Rebbe z"l leaned over and told Luchins: "Please tell the senator that the Jewish people are united against the sale of AWACs to Saudi Arabia." Luchins, a little surprised, ask the Rebbe to repeat what he said to make sure he had heard correctly, the Rebbe repeated it and luchins passed it on. - (I personally confirmed this with Luchins when I accidentally wound up speaking to him on the phone concerning something else.)
In another similar story a politician seeking the Satmar (Jewish) vote told the Rebbe "I'm very pro-Israel" The gabbai braced himself for the ensuing firestorm... which did not place. Instead, to the Gabbai's shock, the Rebbe told the politician "that's very good." After the politician left the rebbe explained: When a Goy says he likes Israel, it means he's pro Jewish, that is not to be discouraged. It was known that Rebbe prayed that the secular medina should go under but without any loss to any Jew.

Lastly, the Lubavitcher Rebbe penned a letter found in Sha'arei Orah which, if not for the signature, one think it was written by the Satmar Roov. The Rebbe gives it to a guy over the head for suggesting that the founding of the secular state of Israel is the "Ischalta di'geula".
That, not to be confused with that which the Rebbe required the defense of Eretz Yisroel which was in accordance with laws of Shabbos requiring the defense of ANY Jewish settlement, even those in a Goyisheh country and has nothing to do with supporting the secular anti-religious government in Israel. The Rebbe took his name off the Ocean Parkway Yeshivah because they played Hatikvah at a dinner.

The Ahava Yisroel of the Chofetz Chaim, the Satmar Roov, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe is beyond question or reproach. Their yearning for the return of exiled to a Jewish Israel far exceeded that of any secular Zionists, but that has nothing to do with the secular state which now finds itself on the holy land which once bore kings and prophets imbued with the fear of G-d. That said, the view of NK is much closer to that of the Chofetz Chaim, the Satmar Roov, or the Lubavitcher Rebbe, than to those that feel a Jew's political aspirations should outweigh his spiritual ones.

58

 Oct 02, 2009 at 08:28 AM N Says:

Reply to #54  
what Says:

You're out of your mind.
a)going there is putting their life on the line
b)This is exactly their intention! You don't know what you are talking about.
c)They are (were) there to keep him from attacking Israel in their own way.

I meant prove to me that going there is to bring Moshiach. Indeed, going there puts their life on the line. But they are not doing it with that kavanah. Friedman went there also with his wife and young children. If he thought he was putting his life on the line, why did he bring them along?

The NK's agenda is to speak out against the state of Israel. If even a peace loving group were to speak out against Israel, they would join them. If a group by anti semites would call for the murder of Jew without mentioning Israel, they wouldnt try to reach them.

59

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:43 AM when Says:

Reply to #51  
what Says:

I meant Shevat Shimon. I was thinking Shimon V'Levi Achim and I wrote Levi by accident. "Where is my daas Torah". Listen to Rabbi Avigdor Miller tape on "kanois" . He describes there the whole "inyin" in which he says and I quote "You have to love the Neturay Karta" He compares there zeal and their taking up for Hashems kovod and also uses other examples of "kanioyis" . Etc. etc. Now I admit he said this about 30 years ago and I don't know if he would think differently today but knowing Rabbi Miller Z"tl as I did, I doubt it.
Now someone told me that the Munkatcher Rebbe said SOMEONE should go talk to that roshah Achmanadinajad, but not the NK. So I went and asked him what he meant by this. After discussing it with him I told him "you're right, they shouldn't go. But why don't you go??!! He looked at me. Huh? "That's right you go" Of course we spoke in Yiddish. Then he answered me, "who vants to go der it's dangerous" . "Oh dus iz nisht kein teritz". My point being they the NK were putting there life on the line to hasten the comming of Moshiach and at the same time appeasing the enemy. Nebech it looks like Hashem has other plans. BTW I didn't mean to insult you. I was upset when I replied. Shulem

Rav Miller Shlita ZTL was NOT referring to these kooks. He was referring to the REAL Neturay Karta inn EY. I believe wholeheartedly he would have called these people m'shiuguim of the highest caliber who seemingly forgot to take their meds.

You should have gone if the Munkatcher told you to go. What would the worst thing have been?! Or was he telling you there was no way he was going!


GHY

60

 Oct 02, 2009 at 11:50 AM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #57  
matzahlocal101 Says:

It's a shame that it needs to be said, but let's clarify some basic facts. There is ahavas Yisroel, there is ahavas ha-aretz, and there is secular Zionism. The three are absolutley independant and have nothing to with each other. The biggest anti Zionistic kanoim, (Which included the Chofetz Chaim) did want to Jews to be killed or hurt because they were Zionists. Reb Aryeh Leib z"l (the son of the Chofetz Chaim) relates, that although mikvaos were one of the CC's pet projects, to everyone's amazement, he once refrained from going to inspect a mikvah in a certain town for 3 weeks. One day, leaving shul, he hailed a wagon got on and rode off. He returned shortly thereafter and explained: The Rov of that town was a Mizrachist. If he went to the town and did not meet with the rabbi he would be pogaya in the rabbi's kavod. But he didn't want to meet with the rabbi at all because he was a mizrachist. Leaving shul he remebered that this week was the world zionist congress and surely that rabbi would be there. He therefore quickly went to inspect the mikvah and he was able to not meet with the rabbi and at the same time not be pogaya in his kavod because he wasn't there. - Darkei Avi z"l
Unlike the Chofetz Chaim, the poster here seem to think that their disagreement with the position taken by almost all gedolei Yisroel also requires them to be pogaya in their kavod as well.

Second story. The Satmar Roov zt"l was once sitting at a Satmar dinner near Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan with DPM's aid, David Luchins, (now of Touro) sitting between them. It was the week before the senat voted on the sale of AWACs to Saudi Arabia and the Rebbe z"l leaned over and told Luchins: "Please tell the senator that the Jewish people are united against the sale of AWACs to Saudi Arabia." Luchins, a little surprised, ask the Rebbe to repeat what he said to make sure he had heard correctly, the Rebbe repeated it and luchins passed it on. - (I personally confirmed this with Luchins when I accidentally wound up speaking to him on the phone concerning something else.)
In another similar story a politician seeking the Satmar (Jewish) vote told the Rebbe "I'm very pro-Israel" The gabbai braced himself for the ensuing firestorm... which did not place. Instead, to the Gabbai's shock, the Rebbe told the politician "that's very good." After the politician left the rebbe explained: When a Goy says he likes Israel, it means he's pro Jewish, that is not to be discouraged. It was known that Rebbe prayed that the secular medina should go under but without any loss to any Jew.

Lastly, the Lubavitcher Rebbe penned a letter found in Sha'arei Orah which, if not for the signature, one think it was written by the Satmar Roov. The Rebbe gives it to a guy over the head for suggesting that the founding of the secular state of Israel is the "Ischalta di'geula".
That, not to be confused with that which the Rebbe required the defense of Eretz Yisroel which was in accordance with laws of Shabbos requiring the defense of ANY Jewish settlement, even those in a Goyisheh country and has nothing to do with supporting the secular anti-religious government in Israel. The Rebbe took his name off the Ocean Parkway Yeshivah because they played Hatikvah at a dinner.

The Ahava Yisroel of the Chofetz Chaim, the Satmar Roov, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe is beyond question or reproach. Their yearning for the return of exiled to a Jewish Israel far exceeded that of any secular Zionists, but that has nothing to do with the secular state which now finds itself on the holy land which once bore kings and prophets imbued with the fear of G-d. That said, the view of NK is much closer to that of the Chofetz Chaim, the Satmar Roov, or the Lubavitcher Rebbe, than to those that feel a Jew's political aspirations should outweigh his spiritual ones.

For historical accuracy, there is a letter from the Chofetz Chaim to Harav Kook written in the 1920's where the Chofetz Chaim among the titles acknowledges him as Rav Horoshi. Harav Kook was the head of the Mizrachistin so it puts that story you brought in question. There is no doubt in my mind that the Chofetz Chaim was not a Zionist just like the Avnei Neizer wasn't a Zionist, but that letter says Darshuni.

61

 Oct 02, 2009 at 05:58 PM what Says:

Reply to #59  
when Says:

Rav Miller Shlita ZTL was NOT referring to these kooks. He was referring to the REAL Neturay Karta inn EY. I believe wholeheartedly he would have called these people m'shiuguim of the highest caliber who seemingly forgot to take their meds.

You should have gone if the Munkatcher told you to go. What would the worst thing have been?! Or was he telling you there was no way he was going!


GHY

And why exactly arehe original NK any better? And would they be more liked today? The Munkatcher Rebbe didn't ask me to go and I don't want to go. I admit I would be afraid for my life. But I asked him and he just looked at me. He is the big Rebbe while I'm just.....

62

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