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Kfar Chabad - Inspectors Sprayed Esrogim for Pesticide Entire Shipment Ruined

Published on: October 1, 2009 08:08 PM
By:  Jpost
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Kfar Chabad - This year Moshe wanted to play by the rules. Instead of smuggling as he had done in previous years he wanted to go legit.

Moshe is an importer of the “Yanova etrog” an expensive variety of citron grown in Calabria, a region on the southwestern tip of Italy.

But according to Moshe, who used a fictitious name to protect his identity, his attempt to behave lawfully backfired.
“My entire shipment of etrogim was ruined by Agriculture Ministry officials last Thursday,” Moshe said.

“The shipment arrived at Ben-Gurion Airport where it was inspected by officials from the Agriculture Ministry and then they sprayed it with some kind of pesticide. A few hours later the etrogim started rotting.

“I lost everything, everything.
“I think they did it on purpose to protect local growers from competition.”

The ministry said in response that “the State of Israel does not normally permit imports of citrus fruits due to various pests, insects and diseases that can be transmitted to humans, animals and plants…
“In an unusual move, this year the Agriculture Ministry permitted the import of etrogim from Calabria out of consideration for the desires of the public. To allow this import, however, the Agriculture Ministry’s plant protection agency must provide careful supervision aimed at preventing contamination.

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“The etrogim that are imported are inspected upon arrival and undergo a fumigation treatment. This treatment is administered carefully and has been proven to cause no damage to fruit. All the etrogs were treated in this way.”

The ministry spokeswoman said that she was not aware of any case in which a shipment of etrogim was destroyed.

“Without receiving shipment details we have no way of providing more specific information. However, any shipment found to be contaminated is either returned to its source or destroyed immediately.”

The type of etrog grown in Calabria has a long history. Chabad hassidim in particular go to great lengths to obtain the expensive fruit, which is sold in the US for about $150 each and in Israel for slightly less.

The founder of Chabad hassidism, Rabbi Schneer Zalman of Ladi (1745-1812), claimed that the etrog from Calabria was the one used by Moses the very first time the holiday was celebrated in the desert.

The last rebbe of Chabad, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, was careful to use only etrogim from Calabria.

Part of the reason for the fruit’s popularity is the long tradition from generation to generation of supervision that has ensured that the fruit was never grafted with a lemon. This is a common practice that makes the delicate citron more robust but that also disqualifies the fruit for use in the religious ceremony during Succot.

The etrog from Calabria is also known as the Yanova etrog, because it was commonly obtained by Jews in the Italian port city of Genoa as early as the Middle Ages.

Every year in the summer a delegation of rabbis who provide supervision during the picking of the fruit arrive in Santa Maria Del Cedro, a town in Calabria.

Moshe, meanwhile, has learned a lesson from his ordeal, which has caused him a financial loss of thousands of dollars.
“Next year I am not going to be a good boy. Like everybody else, I will smuggle the etrogim into Israel in suitcases and sell them in the black market. This proves that when you try to play by the rules you get burned.”


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1

 Oct 01, 2009 at 09:03 PM Anonymous Says:

wrong!!!!13 days ago on rosh hashona hashem decided your not to make money from esrogim this year. if hashem decided you that even if u snuck it in u would have lost your money and heavy fines!. remember !EMUNA!!

2

 Oct 01, 2009 at 09:00 PM mendel Says:

I think the israelli goverment should pay him at least what he laid out

3

 Oct 01, 2009 at 09:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
mendel Says:

I think the israelli goverment should pay him at least what he laid out

The isreali government should not pay him a dime... he is a bloodsucker seeking to exploit other jews who somehow believe there is some mystical value in "special" esrogim.

4

 Oct 01, 2009 at 09:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Oy nebech. How sad. When he finally decided to go legally everything is spoiled. Its really upseting.

5

 Oct 01, 2009 at 08:43 PM He's not so smart Says:

Now that he publicly announced his intentions to smuggle next year, maybe they'll be on the lookout for him , to check his bags. Maybe he should speak to someone in the agriculture dept. about how to do it legally without getting his esrogim sprayed.

6

 Oct 01, 2009 at 08:29 PM chaim Says:

Well instead of doing an aveyrah by being over dina demalchusa dina, get out of the esrog business. Theres no heter to do what this "moshe" is doing. If the israelies are gonna put pesticide on the esrogim, its your problem. If it ruins the esrogim, than get out of the business. Dont be a crook.

7

 Oct 01, 2009 at 10:01 PM Anonymous Says:

It is also likely that the esrogim were damaged by improper storage before or during the flight. I am willing to bet that they would know by now what ruins citrus fruits. Lots of stuff can happen during shipping.

8

 Oct 01, 2009 at 09:59 PM To #6 Says:

Ok, so next year u will be left with out a esrog....

9

 Oct 01, 2009 at 09:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

Oy nebech. How sad. When he finally decided to go legally everything is spoiled. Its really upseting.

Why are you upset some esrogim being spoiled that he would have resold at obscene markups over his real costs. Its the ebeshter's way of saying don't make excessive profits on the backs of my yiddin seeking to be mekayem my mitzvot.

10

 Oct 01, 2009 at 10:54 PM me Says:

The no imports rule is an economic consideration. It has nothing to do with disease. The Zionim aririm deliberately did this to prevent Jews from performing a mitzvah bihiddur.

11

 Oct 01, 2009 at 10:51 PM formally Says:

or maybe it got damaged in shipping or he bought a bad bash and wants to save face with chabad

12

 Oct 01, 2009 at 10:50 PM formally Says:

I think we need a little more to believe his story. I do not see way it should rot so fast and if true it should have happened not only to him but to everybody else who imports fruits.

If really true he should have a case
The story seems a little fishy.

13

 Oct 01, 2009 at 11:25 PM formally Says:

Reply to #10  
me Says:

The no imports rule is an economic consideration. It has nothing to do with disease. The Zionim aririm deliberately did this to prevent Jews from performing a mitzvah bihiddur.

Please, people have better thing to do than figuring out how to stop yidin from mitzvah bihiddur. You think you are the center of the universe and every actions is for the Frum Jews bad or good. Most people don't care about you at all. They have their own problems

many countries have regulation like that to protect the crops in the country since one can bring insects that are not native to that country and run amok with the crops.

The US Canada and many if not all countries have such regulations.

As the import rule is all fruits and they made an exception for the esrogen so they bend over backwards for the religious and then you attack them

ingrate

14

 Oct 01, 2009 at 11:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Azoy...the terrible secular zionistas hatched a conspiracy to deny these frumme yidden from performing a "mitzvah bihiddur" by sabatoging these "gold plated" esrogim. Hopefully, the moral of this story is that the great tzadikim who seek to enhance the observances of frumme yidden by reselling an esrog that costs them a few dollar each for a few hundred dollars and who are already planning to smuggle them in next year will be denied the opportunity to do so.

16

 Oct 01, 2009 at 10:30 PM Anonymous Says:

I usually buy a modest esrog. But this year my son in law is visiting from California and he asked me to get him an esrog here in Lakewood. He said he always buys a better one, so I bought one for him and one for me at $110 each, way more than I usually spend. Am I a fool to do this?

17

 Oct 01, 2009 at 10:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Everything is from Above. If the esrogim were ruined, they were meant to be ruined. Stop crying over spoilt esrogim. Heaven Decrees and things happen. Maybe this time he was "punished" for all the previous times. Maybe this is his tikkun. So he should stop complaining and show everyone how a real frum Jew acts when something goes wrong: he just thanks Hashem !

19

 Oct 01, 2009 at 10:11 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Most countries (including the US) are incredibly strict about imported fruits and vegetables. That the Israeli authorities would insist that the entire shipment be sprayed with a pesticide is no surprise. (And anyone who smuggles in fruit runs the risk of smuggling in some bug that could destroy an entire crop. It is terribly irresponsible.)

20

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

The isreali government should not pay him a dime... he is a bloodsucker seeking to exploit other jews who somehow believe there is some mystical value in "special" esrogim.

Wrong. These etrogim are no more special than any others. It is a Chabad preference based on the Rebbe's preference to use etrogim from Calabria. You can continue to use a lemon if you want. I'm sure that's special to you.

21

 Oct 01, 2009 at 11:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

The isreali government should not pay him a dime... he is a bloodsucker seeking to exploit other jews who somehow believe there is some mystical value in "special" esrogim.

It's property damage. They should have to pay him.

22

 Oct 01, 2009 at 11:50 PM Truth Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

I usually buy a modest esrog. But this year my son in law is visiting from California and he asked me to get him an esrog here in Lakewood. He said he always buys a better one, so I bought one for him and one for me at $110 each, way more than I usually spend. Am I a fool to do this?

Yea -you are. For sholom bayis you needed to get him a nice one even if it's ridiculous. But, why did YOU need such a pricey one?

23

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:17 AM chosid Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

I usually buy a modest esrog. But this year my son in law is visiting from California and he asked me to get him an esrog here in Lakewood. He said he always buys a better one, so I bought one for him and one for me at $110 each, way more than I usually spend. Am I a fool to do this?

Absolutely not. That is pshat of pri eitz hadar. We want to be as mehudar as possible with Hashem's mitzvos. Provided, obviously, that it's worth the money and you did not get ripped off. That I can't tell you.

24

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:17 AM Never a lemon Says:

The Krestchniff Rebbe was in Crown Heights today & bought an esrog...from Calabria. Lipa was here yesterday. MBD last week. The esrogim we Lubavitchers use are considered (by us) Mehudar. And that's why we use them. That's why we pay a small fortune: because it is important to buy the most beautiful esrog we can afford. We buy 4 in our family (each son has his own.) No expense spared. This is what we choose to spend our money on so we can fulfill the Mitzva to the highest degree.

Perhaps the Krestchniff Rebbe also believes buying an esrog is very important.

25

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:52 AM ganuf Says:

This guy is a ganuf from klal yisroel. The rest of us work every day to earn a living, this guy works 2 weeks a year, over-charging for esrogim because everyone has fixed the prices and they can get away with it. I sold esrogim for years, and the mark up is outrageous. That goes for all the people selling esrogim, wholesale they sell esrogim that are compared to other citrus worth pennies for $15 a pop. then the guy in the store or street sells it for $100. It's outrageous. I made 10K selling esrogim for 4 days. Big time sellers and importers make a couple 100K easy.

26

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
Never a lemon Says:

The Krestchniff Rebbe was in Crown Heights today & bought an esrog...from Calabria. Lipa was here yesterday. MBD last week. The esrogim we Lubavitchers use are considered (by us) Mehudar. And that's why we use them. That's why we pay a small fortune: because it is important to buy the most beautiful esrog we can afford. We buy 4 in our family (each son has his own.) No expense spared. This is what we choose to spend our money on so we can fulfill the Mitzva to the highest degree.

Perhaps the Krestchniff Rebbe also believes buying an esrog is very important.

Do you Krestchneiffs really believe hashem will appreciate your "paying a small fortune" to buy some overhyped lemons whose price has been marked up several hundred percent and you will derive greater zechus for your being makpid. This type of thinking is borderline apikorsus since it puts form over substance. Take the several hundred dollars and give it to the homeless or hungary, give it to some poor yid who lost his/her job and can no longer afford to send their yinglach to yeshiva etc.

27

 Oct 02, 2009 at 07:15 AM malach Says:

I don't think it's anybody's business what etrogim people buy. If the Rabbi of Liadi said that there is a tradition that the Calabrian etrogim were from the original used by Moshe, then his followers certainly have a reason to follow that tradition. If people spend money for etrogim and have the money to spend, again it is their decision. When people profit from an outrageous markup, they will eventually have to pay for their greed. I certainly do not think this is the occasion to trash the Israeli government, but I will say that probably there is another kind of inspection that will not risk the fruit. There are all kinds of problems with pesticide spraying that I will not enumerate. Surely with good will problems like this can be solved. This is supposed to be a chag of simcha. I am very sorry that the person who decided to go straight did not get an immediate positive response, but to look on the bright side maybe this clears up part of his record in Shamayim and he should try again. Chag Someach.

28

 Oct 02, 2009 at 08:07 AM formally Says:

as long as people are paying the prices the guy will charge the outrageous prices

29

 Oct 02, 2009 at 07:57 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

Do you Krestchneiffs really believe hashem will appreciate your "paying a small fortune" to buy some overhyped lemons whose price has been marked up several hundred percent and you will derive greater zechus for your being makpid. This type of thinking is borderline apikorsus since it puts form over substance. Take the several hundred dollars and give it to the homeless or hungary, give it to some poor yid who lost his/her job and can no longer afford to send their yinglach to yeshiva etc.

"This type of thinking is borderline apikorsus since it puts form over substance"

That is what being makpid means...putting form over substance. We seek to perform each mitzvah in the most extreme way if that adds to its beauty and thereby its kedusha.

30

 Oct 02, 2009 at 07:38 AM Think Tank Says:

Reply to #25  
ganuf Says:

This guy is a ganuf from klal yisroel. The rest of us work every day to earn a living, this guy works 2 weeks a year, over-charging for esrogim because everyone has fixed the prices and they can get away with it. I sold esrogim for years, and the mark up is outrageous. That goes for all the people selling esrogim, wholesale they sell esrogim that are compared to other citrus worth pennies for $15 a pop. then the guy in the store or street sells it for $100. It's outrageous. I made 10K selling esrogim for 4 days. Big time sellers and importers make a couple 100K easy.

Why is everyone so jealous on the Esrog merchant. Besides for a handful of merchants, none of them are wealthty. In fact most of them are poor and hard working people. Now if this guy brought in Esrogim and lost all his money, we should feel bad for him.

31

 Oct 02, 2009 at 07:37 AM Anonymous Says:

What you call "form over substance" is what being makpid is all about. Any poisheter yid can be mekayem the mitzvah in a common sense way. Only the most ehrleche yidden have the money to spend on overpriced esrogim so as to be mekayem the mitzvah using such beautiful, elegant and unique specifmens from a special part of Italy which will bring tears to the eyes of hashem and guarantee such yidden and their families a special place in olam haboh.

32

 Oct 02, 2009 at 05:43 AM PulpitRabbi Says:

How about the guy extracts the seeds from all his rotten esrogim, while respecting Ministry of Agriculture regulations on the matter, dries them, keeps them dry, buys a field and plants an orchard, so that he can have Oshe Rabbenu's esroigim in Eretz Yisroel and even be meqayem the mitzvois hateluyois bo-oretz? Double whammy, more profit, less transport (but for that, he'll need to work all year round).

Extra benefit, Chabad can keep all the profit within Chabad, as the farmers will be Chabadniks, too.

33

 Oct 02, 2009 at 03:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
ganuf Says:

This guy is a ganuf from klal yisroel. The rest of us work every day to earn a living, this guy works 2 weeks a year, over-charging for esrogim because everyone has fixed the prices and they can get away with it. I sold esrogim for years, and the mark up is outrageous. That goes for all the people selling esrogim, wholesale they sell esrogim that are compared to other citrus worth pennies for $15 a pop. then the guy in the store or street sells it for $100. It's outrageous. I made 10K selling esrogim for 4 days. Big time sellers and importers make a couple 100K easy.

I challenge you to find other citrus without black dots or blettelach. there is significant risk and investment in an esrog orchard with a limited market, the laws of economics determine pricing.

34

 Oct 02, 2009 at 03:01 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
chaim Says:

Well instead of doing an aveyrah by being over dina demalchusa dina, get out of the esrog business. Theres no heter to do what this "moshe" is doing. If the israelies are gonna put pesticide on the esrogim, its your problem. If it ruins the esrogim, than get out of the business. Dont be a crook.

Being oiver dina d'malchusa dina is an aveira? Which rov told u that? You think after 120 yrs the beis din shel maaloh is going to punish us for speeding, unpaid parking tickets, too many writeoffs on our tax returns?

Dina d'malchusa dina is not an aveira, it is a mechanism that allows secular goverments to judge a Jew according to their laws. If not for it, a person can say I won't follow roman/french/spanish/american law, I follow only Torah. He would get arrested, and then we would all have to be moiser nefesh to get him released, regardless of his crime. It would have caused the total decimation of the Jewish people. Therefore the chachomim said "dina...dina" which is a mechanism that allows non-Torah abiding goverments to judge a Jew according to their laws. It is not an aveirah by any stretch.

35

 Oct 02, 2009 at 02:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

Azoy...the terrible secular zionistas hatched a conspiracy to deny these frumme yidden from performing a "mitzvah bihiddur" by sabatoging these "gold plated" esrogim. Hopefully, the moral of this story is that the great tzadikim who seek to enhance the observances of frumme yidden by reselling an esrog that costs them a few dollar each for a few hundred dollars and who are already planning to smuggle them in next year will be denied the opportunity to do so.

These frumme yidden who want these esroigim are Chabad chassidim who are always there for everyone in EY including the most secular, and who are not particularly opposed to the medine or to army service. However, more and more of us are fed up with the medine and this is just one more small reason why.

When a criminal kills an innocent victim, it is also perhaps min hashamayim but we prosecute the criminal. Here, the criminal medine which wants to protect its kloyei hakerem, orla and who knows what other kinds of esrogim, ruined the parnosso of a man who wanted to do things right even when it comes to the memsheles zadoin.

36

 Oct 02, 2009 at 08:16 AM rebbe maham Says:

Maybe somone with a "Superman kapote" can come and reverse the damage done to the esrogim... On a side note, it's sad how people here are bad mouthing the whole buying an esrog thing. I'm beginning to think that vesamachta bechagecha is possible only b/c we cant comment on VIN on yom tov. CHAG SAMEACH!

37

 Oct 02, 2009 at 01:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
me Says:

The no imports rule is an economic consideration. It has nothing to do with disease. The Zionim aririm deliberately did this to prevent Jews from performing a mitzvah bihiddur.

Your post lacks any sense or logic. There are tons of esrogim grown in Israel that ends up in NYC as well. The "Zionim" don't have time to care nor want to prevent you from shaking your lemons on Sukkot. Stop being paranoid about the world. No one cares and no one has conspiracies against esrogim.

Every country has strict produce and agricultural control because risk of contamination is very high. You can introduce certain parasites that can cause plagues and devastate local agricultural and food supplies. I had my oranges and apples confiscated in Turkish airport but I didn't complain because I understood their concern.

This schmuck has the hutzpa to announce to the world that next time he will break laws of a country and possibly introduce a strain of parasites because he must make a buck on his holy lemons from Italy. His esrogim can not be used for a mitzva if he sells them by breaking laws.

38

 Oct 02, 2009 at 08:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

Being oiver dina d'malchusa dina is an aveira? Which rov told u that? You think after 120 yrs the beis din shel maaloh is going to punish us for speeding, unpaid parking tickets, too many writeoffs on our tax returns?

Dina d'malchusa dina is not an aveira, it is a mechanism that allows secular goverments to judge a Jew according to their laws. If not for it, a person can say I won't follow roman/french/spanish/american law, I follow only Torah. He would get arrested, and then we would all have to be moiser nefesh to get him released, regardless of his crime. It would have caused the total decimation of the Jewish people. Therefore the chachomim said "dina...dina" which is a mechanism that allows non-Torah abiding goverments to judge a Jew according to their laws. It is not an aveirah by any stretch.

The "D d'm D" doctrine will indeed be one of the metrics the malachim will use to advise hasehm on who should be rewarded or punished in olam haboh. The torah does not address many aspects of our lives and thus we must rely upon the local or national goverment to fill the void. We are obligated to follow those laws just a we are shomrei torah and mitzvot, especially in those area where the torah is either silent or where there are no conflicts.

39

 Oct 02, 2009 at 08:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

I usually buy a modest esrog. But this year my son in law is visiting from California and he asked me to get him an esrog here in Lakewood. He said he always buys a better one, so I bought one for him and one for me at $110 each, way more than I usually spend. Am I a fool to do this?

You're not a fool, G-d forbid but as long as the market will sell a piece of fruit for obscene prices, poor Jews like us can't afford to perform this mitzva. My husband is without Arba minim this year and all anyone can do is shake their heads and say "what will you do? It's required" No kidding. Hopefully one of the men at shul will lend his. We just couldn't scrape up enough for even a modest set.

40

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Oifen ganef brent doos hittel. they paid him back with wat he did

41

 Oct 02, 2009 at 08:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

Being oiver dina d'malchusa dina is an aveira? Which rov told u that? You think after 120 yrs the beis din shel maaloh is going to punish us for speeding, unpaid parking tickets, too many writeoffs on our tax returns?

Dina d'malchusa dina is not an aveira, it is a mechanism that allows secular goverments to judge a Jew according to their laws. If not for it, a person can say I won't follow roman/french/spanish/american law, I follow only Torah. He would get arrested, and then we would all have to be moiser nefesh to get him released, regardless of his crime. It would have caused the total decimation of the Jewish people. Therefore the chachomim said "dina...dina" which is a mechanism that allows non-Torah abiding goverments to judge a Jew according to their laws. It is not an aveirah by any stretch.

regardless of halacha, secular governments are capable of judging Jews according to their laws. even without "dina d'malchusa dina", a Jew who breaks the law woudl be arrested... I don't understand your logic. Plenty of Jews still feel they don;t have to follow the laws of the lands they live in, even when those laws do not contradict halacha.

42

 Oct 02, 2009 at 09:24 AM David Says:

Reply to #24  
Never a lemon Says:

The Krestchniff Rebbe was in Crown Heights today & bought an esrog...from Calabria. Lipa was here yesterday. MBD last week. The esrogim we Lubavitchers use are considered (by us) Mehudar. And that's why we use them. That's why we pay a small fortune: because it is important to buy the most beautiful esrog we can afford. We buy 4 in our family (each son has his own.) No expense spared. This is what we choose to spend our money on so we can fulfill the Mitzva to the highest degree.

Perhaps the Krestchniff Rebbe also believes buying an esrog is very important.

And did you spare no expense for your wife and daughters to get nice clothes and dresses for the Holiday as well? Did you spare no expense for the poor so they should have a nice Holiday. There are priorities, and the there are PRIORITIES.

43

 Oct 02, 2009 at 09:47 AM Yehuda Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

Do you Krestchneiffs really believe hashem will appreciate your "paying a small fortune" to buy some overhyped lemons whose price has been marked up several hundred percent and you will derive greater zechus for your being makpid. This type of thinking is borderline apikorsus since it puts form over substance. Take the several hundred dollars and give it to the homeless or hungary, give it to some poor yid who lost his/her job and can no longer afford to send their yinglach to yeshiva etc.

Out of curiosity how much did you pay for your car or some other expensive item in your house? Or how much money do you waste on eating out, buying unneccesary items, etc. It's okay to spend untold thousands for something that you can buy for less or don't need but you think must have. So if we spend a couple hundred dollars on a hiddur mitzvah you get your knickers all tied in a knot.

44

 Oct 02, 2009 at 10:14 AM Alter Neulander Says:

Reply to #10  
me Says:

The no imports rule is an economic consideration. It has nothing to do with disease. The Zionim aririm deliberately did this to prevent Jews from performing a mitzvah bihiddur.

" The Zionim aririm deliberately did this to prevent Jews from performing a mitzvah bihiddur."

Prove it.

45

 Oct 02, 2009 at 10:10 AM Tevye Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

The isreali government should not pay him a dime... he is a bloodsucker seeking to exploit other jews who somehow believe there is some mystical value in "special" esrogim.

Just like BMW exploits you by selling you a car that gets from A to B the same as a Toyota... except for 2X the price.

If the people want them, then what does it matter? The government can't destroy BMW's just because it doesn't think the price is fair.

Your thinking is absurd... good back to yeshiva... a good yeshiva.

46

 Oct 02, 2009 at 09:59 AM Anonymous Says:

When I do business I pay for insurance. How difficult is that?

47

 Oct 02, 2009 at 09:49 AM Yehuda Says:

Reply to #32  
PulpitRabbi Says:

How about the guy extracts the seeds from all his rotten esrogim, while respecting Ministry of Agriculture regulations on the matter, dries them, keeps them dry, buys a field and plants an orchard, so that he can have Oshe Rabbenu's esroigim in Eretz Yisroel and even be meqayem the mitzvois hateluyois bo-oretz? Double whammy, more profit, less transport (but for that, he'll need to work all year round).

Extra benefit, Chabad can keep all the profit within Chabad, as the farmers will be Chabadniks, too.

Actually they have esrogim orchards in Kfar Chabad that were started from a Yanaver esrog that the Rebbe gave them many years ago.

48

 Oct 02, 2009 at 10:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

I usually buy a modest esrog. But this year my son in law is visiting from California and he asked me to get him an esrog here in Lakewood. He said he always buys a better one, so I bought one for him and one for me at $110 each, way more than I usually spend. Am I a fool to do this?

If the more reasonable esrog you used to purchase was/is a kosher esrog, then you did do a foolish thing. In the spirit of Yeshivish thinking, you can hope that hashem recognizes your sacrifice for your son-in-law's wanting to be mekayim the mitzvah behidur and you will get schar for that. :)
When my oldest sister got married to a stoliner chosid my mother started cooking separate chicken and chicken soup for his special hechsher requirements and subsequently when my next sister got married my mother continued this and added a new hechsher and now was cooking three different chickens and chicken soups....I was a young girl at the time and I was very disturbed by this because I couldn't understand how a frum man can make his mother-in-law work so hard for their frumkeit. Obviously my parent's daughter was good enough for them, but the food in the house they grew up in wasn't? As I got older I realized that I was indeed correct and this behavior is bizarre and wrong. We are a people who respect our elders and unless our elders are not shomer shabbos and are openly not observant we should sit at their table, enjoy their generosity and love and allow them to give to us what we as parents want to give to our children. Amen.

49

 Oct 02, 2009 at 10:46 AM Mo Kapoier Says:

Economics 101:
Markets are efficient.

Economics 102:
They revert to the efficient mean over time.

I was in the Arba Minim business for years, I was ehrlich, I made every one of my workers learn, in depth, all the pertinent Halachos and paid them for their study time, I only hired over Bar-Mitzva age, I taught them to be careful not to fool customers...and you know what?

I made very good money in the business. I didn't become a millionaire but I made about a 1/2-years good parnassa from it, and I don't apologize for that.
I worked about four solid months every year, spread out across the whole year. (Obviously, some periods were busier than others.)

And guess what?

I left the business!
Because it's extremely hard, extremely competitive, obviously seasonal, dependent on too many factors beyond one's control, and I found that I can make MUCH MORE money in businesses that are not as pressurized.

Very few "sochrim" are becoming millionaires, and the competition ensures that the prices don't get out of hand. Anyone can get a full set of Kosher L'mehadrin Arba Minim nowadays for $25-50. You may have to wait till prices come down Erev YT, you may not get Grade AAA, but they'll be more than kosher.
The quality of Arba Minim has improved immeasurably in the 12 years since I left the business, and even Grade C is usually Kosher L'Mehadrin.

If you think it's an easy ticket to being a millionaire, no one is stopping you from getting into the business. You'll find that like any business, it's got its advantages and its disadvantages, and the harder you work, and the better businessman you are, the better you'll do.
(I'm obviously speaking within the framework of Hishtadlus/Hashgacha.)

Ah Gut Yontiff, everyone, and don't let Kin'ah ruin your Ahavas Yisroel.

P.S. Remember, without the profit motive, there would be very few Esrogim to be had.

50

 Oct 02, 2009 at 10:56 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
PulpitRabbi Says:

How about the guy extracts the seeds from all his rotten esrogim, while respecting Ministry of Agriculture regulations on the matter, dries them, keeps them dry, buys a field and plants an orchard, so that he can have Oshe Rabbenu's esroigim in Eretz Yisroel and even be meqayem the mitzvois hateluyois bo-oretz? Double whammy, more profit, less transport (but for that, he'll need to work all year round).

Extra benefit, Chabad can keep all the profit within Chabad, as the farmers will be Chabadniks, too.

If he has the money to buy the field....great idea, in fact, genius. Maybe some of us should collect esrogim after yom tov and do the same....

51

 Oct 02, 2009 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

Azoy...the terrible secular zionistas hatched a conspiracy to deny these frumme yidden from performing a "mitzvah bihiddur" by sabatoging these "gold plated" esrogim. Hopefully, the moral of this story is that the great tzadikim who seek to enhance the observances of frumme yidden by reselling an esrog that costs them a few dollar each for a few hundred dollars and who are already planning to smuggle them in next year will be denied the opportunity to do so.

get your facts straight!!
the calabria esrogim do not cost just a couple of dollars
if i am not mistaken it costs over 17 euro
and people do deserve to get paid for labor

52

 Oct 02, 2009 at 11:15 AM Never a lemon Says:

Reply to #42  
David Says:

And did you spare no expense for your wife and daughters to get nice clothes and dresses for the Holiday as well? Did you spare no expense for the poor so they should have a nice Holiday. There are priorities, and the there are PRIORITIES.

I AM the wife! My girls are married, so their husbands provide for them. Yes, B"H I got exactly what I need & want, no more, no less, and we are hosting many guests (sleeping) & feed many others. We have an open house year round & apparently, we must do a good job as some Bochurim bring THEIR guests! And of course, we gave Tzedakah, as we do year round. Doesn't everyone?

Tell me, who are YOU to look into what WE see as priorities? Are we taking money from you? Does what we do bother you? Are we infringing on your personal liberties & telling you what to do? If not, please allow us to enjoy Succos according to our custom.

53

 Oct 02, 2009 at 11:43 AM esther Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

wrong!!!!13 days ago on rosh hashona hashem decided your not to make money from esrogim this year. if hashem decided you that even if u snuck it in u would have lost your money and heavy fines!. remember !EMUNA!!

when YOU loose thousands of dollars you can be tough with yourself and say EMUNA! when another yid looses thousands of dollars you have RACHMANUS and beg Hashem to help him.

54

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:43 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #34  
Anonymous Says:

Being oiver dina d'malchusa dina is an aveira? Which rov told u that? You think after 120 yrs the beis din shel maaloh is going to punish us for speeding, unpaid parking tickets, too many writeoffs on our tax returns?

Dina d'malchusa dina is not an aveira, it is a mechanism that allows secular goverments to judge a Jew according to their laws. If not for it, a person can say I won't follow roman/french/spanish/american law, I follow only Torah. He would get arrested, and then we would all have to be moiser nefesh to get him released, regardless of his crime. It would have caused the total decimation of the Jewish people. Therefore the chachomim said "dina...dina" which is a mechanism that allows non-Torah abiding goverments to judge a Jew according to their laws. It is not an aveirah by any stretch.

Not exactly. For one thing, it has nothing to do with criminal law. DdMD is a rule in Choshen Mishpot, for Jewish botei din to apply, not for goyishe courts.

55

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:42 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #32  
PulpitRabbi Says:

How about the guy extracts the seeds from all his rotten esrogim, while respecting Ministry of Agriculture regulations on the matter, dries them, keeps them dry, buys a field and plants an orchard, so that he can have Oshe Rabbenu's esroigim in Eretz Yisroel and even be meqayem the mitzvois hateluyois bo-oretz? Double whammy, more profit, less transport (but for that, he'll need to work all year round).

Extra benefit, Chabad can keep all the profit within Chabad, as the farmers will be Chabadniks, too.

That would indeed guarantee that the esrog is not murkav, and indeed there are orchards in Kfar Chabad growing "Yannever" esrogim. But it is still a hiddur to get a real Yannever, that grew in the soil of Calabria, which is "mishmanei ho'oretz". For many centuries all European Jews (NOT just Lubavs) were mehader to get one from there, if it was at all possible; what do you think has changed now?

56

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:37 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #19  
Charlie Hall Says:

Most countries (including the US) are incredibly strict about imported fruits and vegetables. That the Israeli authorities would insist that the entire shipment be sprayed with a pesticide is no surprise. (And anyone who smuggles in fruit runs the risk of smuggling in some bug that could destroy an entire crop. It is terribly irresponsible.)

And yet it seems it is the only way to get yanneve esrogim in EY. They've been brought in illegally every year since before independence, and the disaster hasn't hit yet; now that we see what happens if you try it legally, only a fool would try it again. So what should people do? They have no choice.

PS: Hiddur mitzvah certainly overrides any consideration of dina demalchusa, so don't even try bringing that up.

57

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:34 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #12  
formally Says:

I think we need a little more to believe his story. I do not see way it should rot so fast and if true it should have happened not only to him but to everybody else who imports fruits.

If really true he should have a case
The story seems a little fishy.

Nobody else imports esrogim legally. Everyone smuggles them in. (Legally a person is allowed to bring in ONE esrog for personal use; obviously the dealers don't bring them in one at a time. Now we see why.)

58

 Oct 02, 2009 at 12:30 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #6  
chaim Says:

Well instead of doing an aveyrah by being over dina demalchusa dina, get out of the esrog business. Theres no heter to do what this "moshe" is doing. If the israelies are gonna put pesticide on the esrogim, its your problem. If it ruins the esrogim, than get out of the business. Dont be a crook.

Really? Where is this aveira to be found? In what se'if of shulchan aruch? After such an experience only a fool would go through the channels again. You certainly wouldn't do so if it were your money on the line.

59

 Oct 02, 2009 at 01:29 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #47  
Yehuda Says:

Actually they have esrogim orchards in Kfar Chabad that were started from a Yanaver esrog that the Rebbe gave them many years ago.

But the Rebbe did not make a brocho on those esrogim. He used them for naanu'im, but he only made a brocho on a real Yannever.

60

 Oct 02, 2009 at 02:20 PM Anonymous Says:

The Lubavitcher Rebbe had a Eretz Yisroeldiger esrog which was planted from Yanover esrog seeds in kfar chabad.Other than shmittah years he would do na'anuim with the israeli esrog as well

61

 Oct 02, 2009 at 02:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #56  
Milhouse Says:

And yet it seems it is the only way to get yanneve esrogim in EY. They've been brought in illegally every year since before independence, and the disaster hasn't hit yet; now that we see what happens if you try it legally, only a fool would try it again. So what should people do? They have no choice.

PS: Hiddur mitzvah certainly overrides any consideration of dina demalchusa, so don't even try bringing that up.

Anyone who follows this known am'haoretz and willfully seeks to smuggle-in exotic esrogim in the name of "hiddur mitzvah" is likely to get caught and fined. Each year, the customs and agricultural service inspectors confiscate thousands of illegal esrogim that otherwise ehrlich yidden attempt to sneak-in. The government has licensed several large wholsalers to import such esrogim legally. Anyone seeking to break the law and smuggle them in deserves to be punished and hopefully will. what will they decide to sumggle next time in the name of "hiddur mitzvah". That is the stupdist excuse I can imagine using.

62

 Oct 02, 2009 at 02:44 PM Cadd9 Says:

I'm off to buy Arba minim now for myself and my two sons. I have a hundred dollar bill bill in my hand I expect change...chag sameich.

63

 Oct 02, 2009 at 03:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #60  
Anonymous Says:

The Lubavitcher Rebbe had a Eretz Yisroeldiger esrog which was planted from Yanover esrog seeds in kfar chabad.Other than shmittah years he would do na'anuim with the israeli esrog as well

Who cares what kind of esrog the rebbe used. I'm sure it was a kosher esrog. Beyond that, its like using a chicken instead of a lamb or goat for kaporos eruv yom kippur. The lamb or goat would be a more elegant way of being makayem the mitzvah but a chicken is cheaper and more convenient to use.

64

 Oct 02, 2009 at 03:32 PM formally Says:

Reply to #37  
Anonymous Says:

Your post lacks any sense or logic. There are tons of esrogim grown in Israel that ends up in NYC as well. The "Zionim" don't have time to care nor want to prevent you from shaking your lemons on Sukkot. Stop being paranoid about the world. No one cares and no one has conspiracies against esrogim.

Every country has strict produce and agricultural control because risk of contamination is very high. You can introduce certain parasites that can cause plagues and devastate local agricultural and food supplies. I had my oranges and apples confiscated in Turkish airport but I didn't complain because I understood their concern.

This schmuck has the hutzpa to announce to the world that next time he will break laws of a country and possibly introduce a strain of parasites because he must make a buck on his holy lemons from Italy. His esrogim can not be used for a mitzva if he sells them by breaking laws.

my brother arrived from England in Kennedy airport from visiting his in laws. When he picked up his bag a dog stood next to him and sat down. My brother was baffled since he knew he had not drugs in his bag.

The offcer came over and said open your bag and my brother did, what did they find a fruit. The officer said one cannot bring fruits from other countries. My brother was stunned , but all they did was take the fruit.

Yes the dog was trained to smell fruit, and yes because of bringing in a non native insect

65

 Oct 02, 2009 at 03:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Anonymous Says:

regardless of halacha, secular governments are capable of judging Jews according to their laws. even without "dina d'malchusa dina", a Jew who breaks the law woudl be arrested... I don't understand your logic. Plenty of Jews still feel they don;t have to follow the laws of the lands they live in, even when those laws do not contradict halacha.

Al pi Torah, and pidyon shvuuim, if a Jew is arrested we have to do everything to release him. Now imagine this:
A guy gets stopped for running a red light. $150 ticket is issued. He goes to court and says that in my Torah it there's no fine for running a red light and I don't have to respect a non-Jewish court, I only follow halacha. He would get tossed in jail in a NY minute. Now we as fellow yidden would have to get him out to the point of mesiras nefesh. To cut the story short, it could lead to a war between yidden following Torah and the gov't. It would end up decimating the Jewish nation. The chachomim after churban bayis sheni realized that most Jews are going to be under a goyishe gov't and to avoid such a scenario, made a simple rule, dina d'malchusa. It is a mechanism that tells a Torah-fearing Jew that he has to follow the laws of the land, and if he doesn't, the gov't can impose their laws, fines, jail on him. It's not a chiyuv to follow it, and l'maaloh u won't be called on the carpet for it.
Can somebody call you to a bais din bec you dont' follow dina d'malchusa? Of course not.

There's alot more to say, but I gotta go, it's erev yomtov and sholom bayis is doicheh hakol (according to everyone!) and the main thing is we should have a true V'samachta B'chagechoh.

66

 Oct 02, 2009 at 05:28 PM Anonymous Says:

I was in Italy a few months ago. Giant fat esrogim in the fruit market in Rome cost less than a dollar each. And yes, they were REAL esrogim, not lemons. I cut one open, it was a real esrog. All the prices here are a ripoff.
Good Yom Tov to all.

67

 Oct 02, 2009 at 06:08 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #63  
Anonymous Says:

Who cares what kind of esrog the rebbe used. I'm sure it was a kosher esrog. Beyond that, its like using a chicken instead of a lamb or goat for kaporos eruv yom kippur. The lamb or goat would be a more elegant way of being makayem the mitzvah but a chicken is cheaper and more convenient to use.

A lamb or goat would NOT be "more elegant", it would be ASSUR. Sheesh!

68

 Oct 02, 2009 at 06:09 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #65  
Anonymous Says:

Al pi Torah, and pidyon shvuuim, if a Jew is arrested we have to do everything to release him. Now imagine this:
A guy gets stopped for running a red light. $150 ticket is issued. He goes to court and says that in my Torah it there's no fine for running a red light and I don't have to respect a non-Jewish court, I only follow halacha. He would get tossed in jail in a NY minute. Now we as fellow yidden would have to get him out to the point of mesiras nefesh. To cut the story short, it could lead to a war between yidden following Torah and the gov't. It would end up decimating the Jewish nation. The chachomim after churban bayis sheni realized that most Jews are going to be under a goyishe gov't and to avoid such a scenario, made a simple rule, dina d'malchusa. It is a mechanism that tells a Torah-fearing Jew that he has to follow the laws of the land, and if he doesn't, the gov't can impose their laws, fines, jail on him. It's not a chiyuv to follow it, and l'maaloh u won't be called on the carpet for it.
Can somebody call you to a bais din bec you dont' follow dina d'malchusa? Of course not.

There's alot more to say, but I gotta go, it's erev yomtov and sholom bayis is doicheh hakol (according to everyone!) and the main thing is we should have a true V'samachta B'chagechoh.

A wonderful fantasy, but you're wrong. 100% wrong. DdMD is a rule for Jewish botei din.

69

 Oct 03, 2009 at 02:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
chaim Says:

Well instead of doing an aveyrah by being over dina demalchusa dina, get out of the esrog business. Theres no heter to do what this "moshe" is doing. If the israelies are gonna put pesticide on the esrogim, its your problem. If it ruins the esrogim, than get out of the business. Dont be a crook.

The medinas Israel is not malchusa so there is no dina demalcusha dina.

70

 Oct 05, 2009 at 12:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #66  
Anonymous Says:

I was in Italy a few months ago. Giant fat esrogim in the fruit market in Rome cost less than a dollar each. And yes, they were REAL esrogim, not lemons. I cut one open, it was a real esrog. All the prices here are a ripoff.
Good Yom Tov to all.

what a DOPE! Those were MURKAVIM!!!
Can get them cheap anytime....

71

 Oct 05, 2009 at 04:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
Anonymous Says:

The medinas Israel is not malchusa so there is no dina demalcusha dina.

Not according to the Ran. Be aware that it is not cut and dry at all.

PS: hidur only requires paying a third more so all of this paying 20 times the regular price doesn't seem to have a basis in halacha at all.

or am i missing something?

72

 Oct 06, 2009 at 02:38 PM Kop Doktar Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Everything is from Above. If the esrogim were ruined, they were meant to be ruined. Stop crying over spoilt esrogim. Heaven Decrees and things happen. Maybe this time he was "punished" for all the previous times. Maybe this is his tikkun. So he should stop complaining and show everyone how a real frum Jew acts when something goes wrong: he just thanks Hashem !

That's a true "cheshbon" when it comes to YOUR losses, but not for someone else's tzar. When your business suffers losses, when your investments plummet, when family members are struck r"l by illness - you should make such a cheshbon for yourself, and thank Hashem for the "gifts". But NEVER on someone else's losses!!

When another yid has a loss or tzorah, we must empathize and feel our brother's pain. Anything less is NOT "how a real frum Jew acts " but how a real KRUM Jew acts.

73

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