Bal Harbor, FL – Several residents of a condominium are outraged after the condo association removed a religious Jewish symbol.
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A Resident of a Bal Harbor condominium recorded a video showing what he discovered Monday morning, after his religious symbol called Sukkah was dismantled.
“Having a little hut that’s 6-by-8 to be bothering someone is really ridiculous,” said the resident.
The attorney of the condominium gave out a written statement which states: “The board of directors is enforcing their documents prohibiting owners from making temporary alterations to the common element. It’s Tantamount to a Christian making an alter by the pool during lent. To allow one owner to do this we will have to allow 451 owners to do this,” said Rosa de la Camara.
Residents were hoping the Sukkah would be up until Saturday evening. “I find it offensive in some regards. I don’t think that it was meant as an upfront to anyone’s religion. I think it was a symbol of, rather an expression of someone’s beliefs, but really Sukkot is meant to celebrate the harvest,” said a resident.
The building association sent out a letter to every resident giving them a warning, but residents say the majority of the building is Jewish and find this very wrong.
“I think it’s a big disappointment for the people here, and again it was not bothering anyone, and we feel like we were prosecuted in Russia and now they are doing the same thing here,” said concerned resident, Debbie Zomlinsky.
For residents in the building, this is very important because they are now concerned that a precedence will now be set up.
this is not as simple as it seems, True it should not bother anybody. However, so should a Christmas tree not bother anybody and or any other religious symbol.
If you allow a shukoh then one would ned to allow other religious symbols.
I think they should allow a limited amount of religious symbols.t should not bother anybody even atheist since it is private property
As long as they are consistent in removing religious items so lets keep an eye out & see what they do with trees, winter scenes, etc.
its not legal in ny but here the dob looks the other. there have been years when people have gotten fines and voilations.
To allow one owner to do this we will have to allow 451 owners to do this.
Yes, all the owner’s will change your rule.
they are correct Rules are Rules
Too bad. These yidden should read their condo association rules before they buy a unit at this complex. There is no special exception for short-term non-conforming additions such as a succah. My in-laws took several months to find a townhouse in Pompano where the community association explicitly did not allow christmas lights to be hung outside. A succah clearly violatges the rules. If tghey don’t like it, move somewhere else. Thats what the free market is about. The rules of a condo association are a legal contract. There are many condos that allow succoth and many don’t. Stop looking for special treatment or move to Monsey.
anti semites
If the majority are Jewish why dont they vote the Board out and get a new Board??
There is no difference between a suchah and a christmas tree or nativity scene. Both are equally important to the owners of condos. I don’t want to have to see either any time I walk out my door or look out my window.
This does not appear to be about prohibiting religious symbols but about enforcing restrictions on “temporary alterations.” A Christmas tree is not an alteration of the property (unless if it is a large tree that obstructs a common area). I think the owners of the sukkah would have had a good argument if the condo rules had only prohibited “alterations” or preferably just “material alterations” but I think it is hard to argue that a sukkah is not a “temporary alteration.”
Changing the board won’t change the condo’s bylaws as that can only be changed by a vote of the members. Of course a new board could use more common sense in enforcing the rules.
They should have given them 7 days to remove it !!
There’s more than meets the eye here. Bal Harbour is a growing Frum community thanks to “The Shul” and there are many people there — Jew and Gentile alike who don’t like it. Apparently, Arthur Godfrey types still exist in the Miami Beach area!
There are many locations in Florida that the condo association does not allow one to build a Sukkah.
This place is not singled out.
This “majority rules” statement is completely childish and ridiculous. If that were the case, in Lakewood, they would make “cinco de mayo” a “legal” holiday, for there are far more spanish people living there than any other race.
Please read your lease agreement thoroughly before thinking of buying or leasing an apartment in a complex. You cannot cry “anti semites” when things don’t go your merry way. Rules are rules, and are therefore enforced. If you don’t like it, vote in the next board meeting, or move.
Why is this even a public story? The individual thinks that if it’s made public that the board will just go for it to prevent a so called “public embarrassment?” If that’s not a chillul Hashem, then what is? Do you want the “outsiders” looking at Jewish people in this light? Thinking Jews get special treatment and etc?
Come on, the real issue might be safety and lawsuits. Yes, the older people in M.B. do get cranky but they are sometimes right. My condo barred me from the pool for wearing a t-shirt in the water. When I explained the medical need they backed down.
Whats the big deal. They can go to any one of half dozen shuls nearby and make the bracha layshev basucah. its not like the board is telling them to be mechallel shabbos. The rules of the condo association trump any personal preferences they have for their own sucah.
We in a nearby building and didn’t build a sukkah on our private porch for just that reason. Instead we happily use the sukkah at the shul or friends homes.
Putting one up is asking for trouble and they should have asked their rabbi before making such a bold move on shared space.
As a frum jew I have no problem with a xmas tree or nativity scene on shared property. They aren’t preaching or forcing their religion, just observing it in public, something every jew should support.
#21 true there are many who do get the permits. and then there are many who don’t. in willi I would think that they do get the permits because a lot of succas are on sidewalk. in bp many don’t get the permits. as well in the bush I knw people who got voilations for succa buildings in their backyards. which is not legal. so it is true that the dob does turn the other way and doesn’t always give fines. some years you hear of it some not. last year it was a issue b/c in some areas in brklyn people were building succas outside in front of their houses and blocked whole sidewalks.
Of course, if you subscribe to the Millhausen theory that halacha always takes priority over any rules or civil laws enacted by mortals, than you should simply rebuild your sucah and “dare” the condo association to tear it down again.
The condo is correct – the rules are not specifically aimed at Jews. The rules were in place when they bought in and that was the time to make a decision- not afterward. Their acts in building without permission were provocative and presumptuous as well as illegal. This causes more anti frum feelings
If y’all made aliyah, it wouldn’t be an issue. All apartment houses have succoth around and on them on balconies, roofs everywhere there’s space below open sky. Don’t live like goyim 51 weeks of the year then whine when you can’t be a Jew for one.
You want your yishmaeli neighbor erecting a temporary mosque on the lawn that you share with him in your condo?
they should have asked- had they done so, emphasized that it’s only for a week etc, they may have actually gotten permission. And if the answer was no, you bring your food to the local shul and eat in their sukkah (yes, it’s inconvenient, but you do what you gotta do, and it’s only for a week anyway).
From its website, this development seems to be classy. One can well understand why they would not want a shanty town built in their forecourt. Halacha does not require your succah to be by your home. If you are rich enough to own a classy condo then be a mensch and take a vacation somewhere a succah will not cause upset. If you cannot afford to do that then I am sure Millhouse will put you up if you ask him nicely
Vienna, Austria or Vienna, Virginia? There IS a difference. If the family whose succah was dismantled had read the condo by-laws before buying, then they KNEW the Association would NOT allow the building/erection of a succah; if they didn’t read the condo by-laws, then too bad for them. Even if they were only renting the condo, they should have asked for and read the by-laws. Rules are made for a reason.
I smell a lawsuit and a change of law and a new board
In Montreal Canada a case of two condo owners putting up a succah on their own individual porches in a very classy condominium went to the Canadian equivilant of the US Supreme court. The condo association wanted it removed, the (two individual) condo owners spent years and thousands of dollars to defend their case. The court in the end ruled since the association allows individual condo owners to put holiday decorations on their own porch therefor a succah on their own porch is permissible.
Yes, anti semitisim!! And I can bet you ,the people that didn’t like the sucka were jews , do some research you’ll see .for the self hating jews it doesn’t matter if they would not be allowed to erect a xmass tree . I’m convinced.
Unfortunately, Condo by-laws as contracts between private persons can trump many if not all constitutional and legal rights. However if the effect of the Condo By-Laws effectively precludes Orthodox Jews from living in the complex then it may be discriminatory. There have been some cases in the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals regarding Mezuztoth in a Chicago Area Condo.
The Condo’s Attonrey’s reasoning is curious so what if an owner has an outdoor religious observance as long as it is quiet , temporary and otherwise does not bother anyone else. It is unlikely the drafters of the Condo’s By-Laws intended a hostility to religion and that iwould seem to be the nub of the matter.
Simple anti semitisim . We live in brooklyn and are tenents by italian folks (the lasts ones left) we build a sucka in their backyard , they love it they even come in for some kugel.. Shame on you old anti semites ,what will you tell your children on your death bed , I was so rightous to the letter of the law that I didn’t let the jews build a sucka . Very impresive . Shame on you . We frum jews(the majority) respect all religions ,we give our non jewish employees , the mail man , the cleaning lady a gift/bonus for their holiday, and we respect their traditional christmas tree etc. . Shame , shame ,shame .But, my gut fealing is that the people that really didn’t like the sucka were self hating asimilated jews, that is my hunch.
i live in a 4 familyhouse with a shul in basement & a doctors office on first floor. the shul puts a huge succah rt. out front blocking not only the entire sidewalk but also my entrance including the address on the wall in case theres an emergecy r”l. but if i dare to open my mouth & tell this shteibel what nerve they got then i would be the sheigetz here!!!!
I’m sure this guy made the sukah in a way that does not bother no one besides the self hating Eirav Rav
a simple solution can be erect a portable succah eat dismantle it.
Oops, probably only an option on chol omoed
It would be wise to review the Halacha in general regarding making a Succah in a public area , surely where there are rules or bylaws governing the building of a succah. See Shulchan Aruch 637/3 and ALL comments. It very likely Layshev Ba Succah is a Bracha Lvatala
I do not know all the facts of this case but I suspect that the complaints came from assimilated Jews. I said “suspect” because it seems every time there is a complaint or action against religious observance, that’s where it comes from, especially in South Florida. There was a recent case in Ft Laud about mezuzah in a condo, the complainers were Jewish. There were complaints, also in Ft Laud, about the activity surrounding the Toshe Rebbe. Again, the complaints were from Jews. There was also a lawsuit about a storefront shul in Davie. Again, the people on the city board acting against the shul (and the law, it turned out) were Jews. I agree with a comment above that when it comes to the goyim, they are generally curious and interested rather than objecting. This is just opinion but it seems to me that the only time the goyim object is when yidden sue to put up a channukiah on public land and this is because they are afraid that the suit may end up with them not being able to put up their xmas stuff. As to comments above like “would you like it if the goyim did such and such,” my answer is that I don’t mind it at all. I don’t throw fits each year when they put up their xmas stuff. America is still, essentially, a xtian country. We cannot expect to have religious liberty ourselves and object to that same liberty for others. Remember, we live in golus.
Tay shouldn’t let the bord put up krismis trees
We are on the same page . Mutual respect is the key . I live next to italian people , we get along nicely . Xmas time we give’em a bottle.. They help us with the garden . We make a sucka in their backyard . But you gotta admit when a condo board takes the rash step and dismantles a sucka , its gotta have some anti semit, self hating jew involved ,Mr formally you aint stupid if you know what I mean…