“ The law should be passed and rigidly enforced. If there is an explicit waiver for "educational/ religious" functions, there will be endless debates over what qualifies as such a function (e.g. will drinking beer after a high school soccer game qualify?). The status quo is fine. A child can be allowed to sip from the kiddush cup without the police bursting in to the house on shabbos during kiddush. We don't need to give a license for drinking in a broader context. There is no reason kids cannot be mekayem the mitzvah of kiddush with grape juice as have yinglach going back to the days of moishe rabeineu. ”

“ I have a better idea! How about bringing up your kids. Not everything needs to be legislated.
Your history lesson is also absurd. Prior to refrigeration grape juice wasn't available to in any country that doesn't grow grapes and in any country at all when not in season.
In addition, the law, as portrayed here, does not exempt the sip from the kiddush cup ”

“ Every year on Purim and Simchas Torah there are numerous kids under 21 who end up in the emergency room because they have had too much to drink. Probably the adults are too drunk to supervise them properly or they do "their own thing" without the supervision of sober adults. Log onto the yehudamondfoundation.org site and see what Dr Twerski says about teens who drink and their brain cells. While I don't want to disagree with Rabbi Brod and do realize that it is impossible to totally prohibit bochrim from drinking, I was very relieved to find that my youngest son won't touch the stuff. ”

“ I just looked at a couple alcohol equivalency charts. Three and a half ounce of liquor is enough to make a 150 pound adult legally impaired to the point where he can't drive in most States. It's enough to be physically dangerous to an 80 pound kid.

And Chabad thinks that's a reasonable amount for children to drink? That says two things. First, the standard for acceptable alcohol consumption in Chabad is way too low and probably hides a dangerous level of alcoholism. Second, the Knesset really needs to pass that law. It's obvious that the religious groups are not qualified to judge medical and public safety matters. ”

“ What would the Rebbe have said? ”

“ Why did the article only focus on Chabad? Aren't there other minors in EY who may also be consuming alcohol? Hasn't it been shown that many youths in EY (non-religious) have problems with alcohol and drugs? Why is the article only focusing on Chabad? ”

“ The revi'it in the Shulchan Aruch refers to WINE which has a much lower alcohol content than vodka or scotch or any other hard stuff.
To use the revi'it for hard liquor is a misapplication of the rule. This public drunkenness on Shabbat and then allowing the not yet observant to get in their cars to drive to their distant homes is a shanda. It's one of the things that totally turned us off Chabad, ”

“ What Jewish ceremony involves alcohol other than wine? ”

“ The article mentions Chabad because some Chabad rabbis chose to come out against the proposed law. If other rabbis in other groups take the same position, you will see the same types of comments. No one is or should be trashing chabad, just disagreeing with the rabbis who think a law is not needed or that up to 3.5 ounces of liquor is fine for underage people. ”

“ I guess we also shouldn't have traffic laws or fire codes or laws against stealing. Let's just trust parents to bring up their children properly and assume that there won't be troubled children even if they are brought up properly. Heck, lets get rid of all laws. ”

“ What Jewish ceremony involves alcohol other than wine? ”

“ Once you have a restriction it will only encourage teens to drink cause its cool. ”

“ I'm a proud lubavitcher ben lubavitcher parent of 4 lubab teenagers and can state with authority that this law will accomplish nothing but make criminals out of teenagers. B"H none of my kids drink excessive alcohol even at farbrengens (which I've done numerous times in my teenage years). I've been to litvish weddings where bochurim come with paper bags and by the kabolas ponim are already high R"L. In our shul on simchas torah the NCSY kids come for booze because they have this stupid no-alcohol policy so they come to Chabad for drinking. We try to control it, but there is only some much we can do with other people's kids. Instead of having a reasonable policy with their own kids where they can watch them, the kids come to us and we are supposed to control them.

As they say, a kop ken men nisht aruf shtellen. ”

“ I am a Chabad Rabbi and hear the side of the Rabbi's in Insrael - HOWEVER if even one life can be saved with this law ( which i think is by far the case ) then they should certainly support it and help enforce it ”

“ I don't want to enter the debate on teenage drinking, (I, personally, never drink anything under 21 years old). The other posters can argue that out. What bothers me is whenever someone trots out the, "if only one life can be saved by (fill in the blank)" bromide. This is what's known as junk thought. Any particular modality, even a potentially life saving one, has to weigh cost-benefit. Perhaps the resources (time, effort, money) expended on Plan A to save one life could save many more if used on Plan B, Or perhaps the resources expended on Plan A won't even save one life (which I think is probably the case with the proposed law). "If it saves only one life..." is a specious and thoughtless argument. ”

“ I'm a proud lubavitcher ben lubavitcher parent of 4 lubab teenagers and can state with authority that this law will accomplish nothing but make criminals out of teenagers. B"H none of my kids drink excessive alcohol even at farbrengens (which I've done numerous times in my teenage years). I've been to litvish weddings where bochurim come with paper bags and by the kabolas ponim are already high R"L. In our shul on simchas torah the NCSY kids come for booze because they have this stupid no-alcohol policy so they come to Chabad for drinking. We try to control it, but there is only some much we can do with other people's kids. Instead of having a reasonable policy with their own kids where they can watch them, the kids come to us and we are supposed to control them.

As they say, a kop ken men nisht aruf shtellen. ”

“ 3.5 ounces of hard liquor (vodka, scotch, etc. ) is a lot of alcohol. ”

“ "we're simply not on the same madraigah as the chasidim from 100 years ago"

Speak for yourself. I believe many in our circle from several different chassidus are tzadiikim and talmedei chachamim on a par with chassidim from 100 years ago. No disrepect to the alte chassidim but we often believe that prior generations of yiddin were automatically at a higher madrraigah.
”

“ My kids all got a shmeck of kiddush from the first Shabbos after they were born, and none of them has a drinking problem. They know not to drink too much. None of them ever got shikkur on Purim when under age and they don't go crazy at a kiddush. I thought this was the norm, now I'm not so sure. Am I just lucky? ”

“ According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 17,941 people were killed and over 275,000 were injured in alcohol-related crashes in the US in 2006. This does begin to even take into account other alcohol-related deaths from domestic violence, alcoholic poisoning (they call it inTOXICation for a reason), liver disease etc..

Alcohol can be one of the most addictive and dangerous substances if not consumed in moderation. Minors should not be considered responsible enough to handle their liquor, nor should they be exposed and conditioned to consuming a poison that can kill them.

L'chaim! ”

“ I just looked at a couple alcohol equivalency charts. Three and a half ounce of liquor is enough to make a 150 pound adult legally impaired to the point where he can't drive in most States. It's enough to be physically dangerous to an 80 pound kid.

And Chabad thinks that's a reasonable amount for children to drink? That says two things. First, the standard for acceptable alcohol consumption in Chabad is way too low and probably hides a dangerous level of alcoholism. Second, the Knesset really needs to pass that law. It's obvious that the religious groups are not qualified to judge medical and public safety matters. ”

“ The small drinks at farbrengens unfortunately lead many to eventually have a drinking problem. Unfortunately many in chabad do not see this & try to hide it under the carpet.
I have been at many weddings and I am very disrurbed by the amount of booze drunk by many bochurim. ”

“ The law should be passed and rigidly enforced. If there is an explicit waiver for "educational/ religious" functions, there will be endless debates over what qualifies as such a function (e.g. will drinking beer after a high school soccer game qualify?). The status quo is fine. A child can be allowed to sip from the kiddush cup without the police bursting in to the house on shabbos during kiddush. We don't need to give a license for drinking in a broader context. There is no reason kids cannot be mekayem the mitzvah of kiddush with grape juice as have yinglach going back to the days of moishe rabeineu. ”

“ The guy in the middle of the picture looks like he has already had one too many vodka (which is what is being poured); The young man pouring the vodka looks barely old enough to legally drink. The kids in the background of the photo look too young to drink, period. ”

“ I think drinking alcohol can affect people well, under the right circumstances. We live in a time that we are bombarded by the tumah of the internet and street. It can be very hard to connect to a ruchniusdik song at a shabbos table. Also, many people, especially young ones are too shy to close their eyes while singing at a kumsitz or the like and get into it. So having a few lechaims helps to loosen a person up to feel more sublime feelings, and be able to connect to his neshoma, and what he really wants. The connection to hashem he really wants etc. That is covered up by the daily impulsive temptations. So under the right settings, e.g. At a spirtual event, drinking with moderation can affect people in a positive way.
Secondly, most drinking opportunities in the frum world are on shabbos and yom tov, when there is no risk of getting into a car. The worst thing that can be if one over drinks, is that he'll walk home in crooked lines, having a good time.
Lastly,Frum people don't have the many non kosher outlets that most teenagers have (hanging out with girls, movies,drugs) so you have to be realistic, everyone needs some kind of escape from life sometimes. At least let it be a lchaim at a farbrengin with a nice song and some inspirational Torah. ”

“ How many of those were orthodox or chassidic jews? Was the percentage of accidents higher in Crown heights than the national average? BTW for all you guys that are cracking statistics, Friday night is the highest percentage of alcohol related fatalities. Baruch Hashem we're not on the roads.

"The rate of alcohol involvement in fatal crashes is more than 3 times higher
at night as during the day (59% versus 18%). For all crashes, the alcohol
involvement rate is 5 times higher at night (16% versus 3%).
In 2005, 30 percent of all fatal crashes during the week were alcohol-related,
compared to 52 percent on weekends. For all crashes, the alcohol involvement rate was 5 percent during the week and 12 percent during the weekend."
-National Highway and Traffic Safety Administraion.

On a side note, the number cause of death for white males aged 18-25 was automobile accidents.
The number cause of death for black males aged 18-25 was gun and knife wounds.
-CDC
In order to close the gap, Obama administration officials have proposed buying more cars for young black males. However there is concern that this may lead to an increase in drive by shootings.

number of the way ”

“ The law should be passed and rigidly enforced. If there is an explicit waiver for "educational/ religious" functions, there will be endless debates over what qualifies as such a function (e.g. will drinking beer after a high school soccer game qualify?). The status quo is fine. A child can be allowed to sip from the kiddush cup without the police bursting in to the house on shabbos during kiddush. We don't need to give a license for drinking in a broader context. There is no reason kids cannot be mekayem the mitzvah of kiddush with grape juice as have yinglach going back to the days of moishe rabeineu. ”

“ "we're simply not on the same madraigah as the chasidim from 100 years ago"

Speak for yourself. I believe many in our circle from several different chassidus are tzadiikim and talmedei chachamim on a par with chassidim from 100 years ago. No disrepect to the alte chassidim but we often believe that prior generations of yiddin were automatically at a higher madrraigah.
”

“ as a bas chabad,i am embarrassed of what you are saying.NO ONE should be giving ANY alcohol to other peoples underage kids! your kids don't over do it but others do;we're simply not on the same madraigah as the chasidim from 100 years ago. ”

“ I think drinking alcohol can affect people well, under the right circumstances. We live in a time that we are bombarded by the tumah of the internet and street. It can be very hard to connect to a ruchniusdik song at a shabbos table. Also, many people, especially young ones are too shy to close their eyes while singing at a kumsitz or the like and get into it. So having a few lechaims helps to loosen a person up to feel more sublime feelings, and be able to connect to his neshoma, and what he really wants. The connection to hashem he really wants etc. That is covered up by the daily impulsive temptations. So under the right settings, e.g. At a spirtual event, drinking with moderation can affect people in a positive way.
Secondly, most drinking opportunities in the frum world are on shabbos and yom tov, when there is no risk of getting into a car. The worst thing that can be if one over drinks, is that he'll walk home in crooked lines, having a good time.
Lastly,Frum people don't have the many non kosher outlets that most teenagers have (hanging out with girls, movies,drugs) so you have to be realistic, everyone needs some kind of escape from life sometimes. At least let it be a lchaim at a farbrengin with a nice song and some inspirational Torah. ”

“ How many of those were orthodox or chassidic jews? Was the percentage of accidents higher in Crown heights than the national average? BTW for all you guys that are cracking statistics, Friday night is the highest percentage of alcohol related fatalities. Baruch Hashem we're not on the roads.

"The rate of alcohol involvement in fatal crashes is more than 3 times higher
at night as during the day (59% versus 18%). For all crashes, the alcohol
involvement rate is 5 times higher at night (16% versus 3%).
In 2005, 30 percent of all fatal crashes during the week were alcohol-related,
compared to 52 percent on weekends. For all crashes, the alcohol involvement rate was 5 percent during the week and 12 percent during the weekend."
-National Highway and Traffic Safety Administraion.

On a side note, the number cause of death for white males aged 18-25 was automobile accidents.
The number cause of death for black males aged 18-25 was gun and knife wounds.
-CDC
In order to close the gap, Obama administration officials have proposed buying more cars for young black males. However there is concern that this may lead to an increase in drive by shootings.

number of the way ”

“ as a bas chabad,i am embarrassed of what you are saying.NO ONE should be giving ANY alcohol to other peoples underage kids! your kids don't over do it but others do;we're simply not on the same madraigah as the chasidim from 100 years ago. ”

“ If you know that underage kids are coming to Chabad for the drinking, there are lots of things that can be done, including stop serving alcohol or card people to make sure they are of age before serving them, just like you would do if you owned a bar or restaurant. ”

“ 80 pound kids are not drinking at fabrengens, they're probably sleeping by that time. Would you prefer police raid every shalom zachor and card the attendees? ”

“ Since the times of Moshe Rabbeinu? Nice try, but grape juice is a fairly recent, possibly a Kedem invention. Ask anyone "fin der heim" If they made kiddush on grape juice and they'll tell you it didn't exist. There was no reason to waste precious potential wine to make a soda valued beverage just because someone couldn't drink wine. Those that made their own wine didn't put in that kind of effort so the little kiddies had something sweet to drink. Those that couldn't drink wine made kiddush on challahs. ”

“ In addition to teaching your kids poor drinking habits, I think it is important that you convey your racist views as well.

Hatzlacha! ”