Jerusalem - Interfaith Org. To Publicize Charedi Recipients Receiving Funds Under The Table |
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News Source: Jerusalem Post By MATTHEW WAGNER
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Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein, chairman of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews, said Thursday that his organization was compiling a list for publication of haredi institutions that receive its donationsJerusalem - Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein, chairman of the International Fellowship of Christians 
and Jews, said Thursday that his organization was compiling a list for publication of haredi institutions that receive its donations.
The move comes after Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, considered the most respected and influential halachic authority among Ashkenazi haredi Jews, signed a declaration saying that receiving money from Eckstein’s organization was “close to idolatry.”
“We are not trying to push anyone into doing anything against their will,” said Eckstein, who spoke with The Jerusalem Post from the US. “If they don’t want funds, they don’t have to accept them. But we are not going to go along with a situation in which haredi institutions accept them under the table without publicizing where they get their funding. So we are compiling a list to make sure everything is perfectly transparent.”
A month ago, Elyashiv signed a document together with Rabbi Tuvia Weiss, head of the Eda Haredit’s rabbinical court, that stated it was forbidden to receive donations from organizations like the IFCJ, probably the single largest philanthropist to Israel.
According to Eckstein, the IFCJ raises $70 million a year among Evangelical Christian communities around the world who are interested in supporting Israel.
The importance of Christian charity has grown due to the financial downturn in the US. Many haredi organizations that might prefer not to receive money from Christians have no other choice if they want to stay afloat.
Now, with Elyashiv’s ruling, it remains to be seen which will be stronger - haredi organizations’ fidelity to their spiritual leader, or their desire to continue to do good deeds.
What complicates matters is speculation that the timing of Elyashiv’s decision is no coincidence and that his “handlers” might be using him to advance a political agenda.
One of the most high-profile haredi recipients of the IFCJ’s money is Rabbi Yitzhak David Grossman of Migdal Ha’emek. Grossman, known as the “disco rabbi” for his unique methods of Jewish educational outreach among youth, has been involved with various social activism projects for more than three decades.
Grossman might also be vying for the position of Jerusalem chief rabbi. Those opposed to Grossman might have purposely arranged for Elyashiv’s decision to be made and published ahead of the upcoming race to hurt Grossman’s chances of winning.
According to Eckstein and IFCJ sources, however, Grossman is not alone. Various haredi organizations in Israel and abroad receive money from the IFCJ or have received support in the past. These haredi bodies include Bnei Brak’s largest soup kitchen; a shelter for battered haredi women located in Beit Shemesh; and a soup kitchen for the needy in Haifa run by the city’s Chief Rabbi Shear Yeshuv Hacohen.
Another haredi organization funded by the IFCJ is Tikva, headed by Rabbi Shlomo Baksht, chief rabbi of Odessa, which helps homeless, abandoned or abused Jewish children in Ukraine.
In March of this year, Ukraine’s Rabbi Yaakov Bleich lamented that Christians were stepping in to provide funding where Jewish organizations were unable to do so.
Kollel Chabad gave thousands of care packages to needy families in Israel this past Rosh Hashana, funded by the IFCJ.
Rabbi Menachem Brod, spokesman for Chabad in Israel, said that he was not aware that Kollel Chabad received aid from the IFCJ. He said that Chabad’s rabbinical court in Israel had issued a halachic decision binding only in Israel recommending to its emissaries not to receive money from Christians.
According to Eckstein, the IFCJ has aided in funding security costs for Chabad Houses in Morocco and India and for the Chief Rabbinate in Turkey.
The document to which Elyashiv added his signature, originally drafted in 2002 by the Eda Haredit, gives three reasons for the prohibition against taking money from Christian organizations. First, publicizing that Christians have given to Jewish charities aggrandizes Christianity, which is a form of idolatry according to many rabbinic opinions. Therefore, it is “close to idolatry.” Second, it aids missionary activity by making Jews beholden to Christians. Third, there is a prohibition against receiving charity from a non-Jew when it causes a desecration of God’s name.•
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Read Comments (34) — Post Yours »
1
Oct 23, 2009 at 09:43 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
quote from the article: "Now, with Elyashiv's ruling, it remains to be seen which will be stronger - haredi organizations' fidelity to their spiritual leader, or their desire to continue to do good deeds."
This only highlights the gross hypocricy and lack of values consistently shown by Elyashiv's cohorts in taking money under the table while vilifying the very institutions that provide those funds. At least the secular are up front with regard to their funding sources.
2
Oct 23, 2009 at 09:51 AM chief doofis Says:Report as Inappropriate
Every family whose rent (in the US) is paid by HUD, every mother buying food with food stamps, every Medicaid recipient, every other "entitlement" recipient, is getting money from Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Orthodox Jews, Reform and Conservative Jews, and even Moslems. Many doctrines teach, that monies distributed through the governments, but going towards helping others, constitutes "charity".
Let the games begin!
3
Oct 23, 2009 at 09:50 AM whatever Says:Report as Inappropriate
What Rabbi Eckstein does is very important work. Evangelical Christians are needed and know that the jews are the chosen people. Whether you like it or not, the adds that Rabbi Eckstein runs on TV make it clear you are helping a jewish child. The question realy is how much money goes from jews to support world organizations, children hungry in different countries etc. there is nothing wrong itf they give back. The non jews giving can be considered the " chasidei umos haolam" Keeping the noachide laws etc. I dont believe that it gives them any sense of entitlement to the organizations that the IFCJ gives money to. Maybe it can be construed that the only organization they have entitlement is the IFCJ and thats it. I understand that certain gedolim feel different and that the money is treif. I guess we can now equate that to the sheitlach scandal. This is a bunch of BS. The next step is to say that any US govt money being given as forgein aid to israel should not be accepted since 95% of this counties taxes come from goyim and mostly christians. Or better yet how much donations are given to these specific gedolim that is earned from goyim or doing buisness with the govt.
This is another sad day to mamash take food out of the mouths of poor people. I guess they didnt think of that. Take it one more step. there are plenty of US companies owned by goyim who helped the Nazis ( GE, IBM - US govt) they owe it to us they helped steal yidishe gelt.
Bottom line this is another pathetic kol koreh.
4
Oct 23, 2009 at 09:57 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ quote from the article: "Now, with Elyashiv's ruling, it remains to be seen which will be stronger - haredi organizations' fidelity to their spiritual leader, or their desire to continue to do good deeds."
This only highlights the gross hypocricy and lack of values consistently shown by Elyashiv's cohorts in taking money under the table while vilifying the very institutions that provide those funds. At least the secular are up front with regard to their funding sources.
”
"At least the secular are up front with regard to their funding sources."
Not true at all.
5
Oct 23, 2009 at 10:07 AM Yoshkes son Says:Report as Inappropriate
I cant wait to see the list and discover all the hypocrites amongst the Rabbonim who tell us to have faith while they are taking money from Yoshke himslef. What a croc we're being sold what a chilul Hashem
6
Oct 23, 2009 at 10:09 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Its now Mr. Chiefgoofis & Mr. Whatever here on VIN Vs. Harav Eliyashuv Shlit"a, I just can't decide... anyone?
7
Oct 23, 2009 at 10:08 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What Rabbi Eckstein does is very important work. Evangelical Christians are needed and know that the jews are the chosen people. Whether you like it or not, the adds that Rabbi Eckstein runs on TV make it clear you are helping a jewish child. The question realy is how much money goes from jews to support world organizations, children hungry in different countries etc. there is nothing wrong itf they give back. The non jews giving can be considered the " chasidei umos haolam" Keeping the noachide laws etc. I dont believe that it gives them any sense of entitlement to the organizations that the IFCJ gives money to. Maybe it can be construed that the only organization they have entitlement is the IFCJ and thats it. I understand that certain gedolim feel different and that the money is treif. I guess we can now equate that to the sheitlach scandal. This is a bunch of BS. The next step is to say that any US govt money being given as forgein aid to israel should not be accepted since 95% of this counties taxes come from goyim and mostly christians. Or better yet how much donations are given to these specific gedolim that is earned from goyim or doing buisness with the govt.
This is another sad day to mamash take food out of the mouths of poor people. I guess they didnt think of that. Take it one more step. there are plenty of US companies owned by goyim who helped the Nazis ( GE, IBM - US govt) they owe it to us they helped steal yidishe gelt.
Bottom line this is another pathetic kol koreh. ”
Your comments prove why this is so bad.
They have already influenced you.
8
Oct 23, 2009 at 10:04 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What Rabbi Eckstein does is very important work. Evangelical Christians are needed and know that the jews are the chosen people. Whether you like it or not, the adds that Rabbi Eckstein runs on TV make it clear you are helping a jewish child. The question realy is how much money goes from jews to support world organizations, children hungry in different countries etc. there is nothing wrong itf they give back. The non jews giving can be considered the " chasidei umos haolam" Keeping the noachide laws etc. I dont believe that it gives them any sense of entitlement to the organizations that the IFCJ gives money to. Maybe it can be construed that the only organization they have entitlement is the IFCJ and thats it. I understand that certain gedolim feel different and that the money is treif. I guess we can now equate that to the sheitlach scandal. This is a bunch of BS. The next step is to say that any US govt money being given as forgein aid to israel should not be accepted since 95% of this counties taxes come from goyim and mostly christians. Or better yet how much donations are given to these specific gedolim that is earned from goyim or doing buisness with the govt.
This is another sad day to mamash take food out of the mouths of poor people. I guess they didnt think of that. Take it one more step. there are plenty of US companies owned by goyim who helped the Nazis ( GE, IBM - US govt) they owe it to us they helped steal yidishe gelt.
Bottom line this is another pathetic kol koreh. ”
"Another pathetic Kol Kora" .. I will repectfully disagree until I see from any prominent Rav that says its ok to accept these donations, sounds fair enough? or perhaps I should just accept what some "Gedolim" here on VIN argue by comparing taking programs from the US govmt??
9
Oct 23, 2009 at 10:00 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Christian organizations aren't government funds. But you knew that, didn't you? Yes, we should all see which organizations are funded through christian missionaries.
Seculars up front, my foot. Do you know how many seculars take money from chareidim under the table?
10
Oct 23, 2009 at 11:11 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I would feel angry and offended if my donations to organizations like St. Jude Hospital, ASPCA etc.. would not be appreciated just because the money came from a Jew. If I were a Christian supporting the poor in Israel through IFCJ (majority of whom are Haredi and Arabs) I would stop donating if someone like Eliyashiv can feed his people on Christian money and call it a miracle from God, but still spew his unappreciative nonsense.
I can't wait to see the list of all the Haredi orgs using the money. It's not different than the Haredim like Satmar in Israel who "officially do not take" money from the "Zionim" but the Israeli tax payer's money sure makes its way into their communities by millions.
11
Oct 23, 2009 at 11:16 AM Lawyer Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Every family whose rent (in the US) is paid by HUD, every mother buying food with food stamps, every Medicaid recipient, every other "entitlement" recipient, is getting money from Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Orthodox Jews, Reform and Conservative Jews, and even Moslems. Many doctrines teach, that monies distributed through the governments, but going towards helping others, constitutes "charity".
Let the games begin! ”
You named yourself aptly. There is a world of difference between govt. money -- which a secular govt. appropriates through its taxing power and then spends as it likes -- and "charity" voluntarily given by a religious organization.
12
Oct 23, 2009 at 12:12 PM Reply to 3 Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What Rabbi Eckstein does is very important work. Evangelical Christians are needed and know that the jews are the chosen people. Whether you like it or not, the adds that Rabbi Eckstein runs on TV make it clear you are helping a jewish child. The question realy is how much money goes from jews to support world organizations, children hungry in different countries etc. there is nothing wrong itf they give back. The non jews giving can be considered the " chasidei umos haolam" Keeping the noachide laws etc. I dont believe that it gives them any sense of entitlement to the organizations that the IFCJ gives money to. Maybe it can be construed that the only organization they have entitlement is the IFCJ and thats it. I understand that certain gedolim feel different and that the money is treif. I guess we can now equate that to the sheitlach scandal. This is a bunch of BS. The next step is to say that any US govt money being given as forgein aid to israel should not be accepted since 95% of this counties taxes come from goyim and mostly christians. Or better yet how much donations are given to these specific gedolim that is earned from goyim or doing buisness with the govt.
This is another sad day to mamash take food out of the mouths of poor people. I guess they didnt think of that. Take it one more step. there are plenty of US companies owned by goyim who helped the Nazis ( GE, IBM - US govt) they owe it to us they helped steal yidishe gelt.
Bottom line this is another pathetic kol koreh. ”
I guess that since you are a Posek on at least the calibare of rav elyashiv and rav wiess and the leading gedolim before them you know what your talking about oh I guess you understand poor pepole as well couse you unlike rav elyashiv are moser nefesh for Torah and therfore unlike rav elyashiv your the one who lives in house where not a singal room is big enoghf to be mechyav in a mezuzah lechatichlah and it only has a kitchen a washroom one bedroom and a living room oh sorry did I mix you up and that's rav elyashivs place so who the hell are you to come and passken what's mutar and asur how thr poor should live it's time guys like you shut up and stick your head back in the guttter you male me puke with your nonesense and I hope you even give tzedakah so your nedhamsh should have dome zechus in the olam ha'ames a c giving thrugh the above org. Is not considerd tzedakah
13
Oct 23, 2009 at 11:58 AM David Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What Rabbi Eckstein does is very important work. Evangelical Christians are needed and know that the jews are the chosen people. Whether you like it or not, the adds that Rabbi Eckstein runs on TV make it clear you are helping a jewish child. The question realy is how much money goes from jews to support world organizations, children hungry in different countries etc. there is nothing wrong itf they give back. The non jews giving can be considered the " chasidei umos haolam" Keeping the noachide laws etc. I dont believe that it gives them any sense of entitlement to the organizations that the IFCJ gives money to. Maybe it can be construed that the only organization they have entitlement is the IFCJ and thats it. I understand that certain gedolim feel different and that the money is treif. I guess we can now equate that to the sheitlach scandal. This is a bunch of BS. The next step is to say that any US govt money being given as forgein aid to israel should not be accepted since 95% of this counties taxes come from goyim and mostly christians. Or better yet how much donations are given to these specific gedolim that is earned from goyim or doing buisness with the govt.
This is another sad day to mamash take food out of the mouths of poor people. I guess they didnt think of that. Take it one more step. there are plenty of US companies owned by goyim who helped the Nazis ( GE, IBM - US govt) they owe it to us they helped steal yidishe gelt.
Bottom line this is another pathetic kol koreh. ”
I agree that the kol koreh is nonsense, but take exception to your notion that anybody owes you (or me) anything.
14
Oct 23, 2009 at 11:30 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ quote from the article: "Now, with Elyashiv's ruling, it remains to be seen which will be stronger - haredi organizations' fidelity to their spiritual leader, or their desire to continue to do good deeds."
This only highlights the gross hypocricy and lack of values consistently shown by Elyashiv's cohorts in taking money under the table while vilifying the very institutions that provide those funds. At least the secular are up front with regard to their funding sources.
”
Matthew Wagner is notorious for writing slanderous articles to defame the Orthodox.
This commenter must be one of his main fans.
Other Orthodox organizations are not automatically cohorts of Rav Eliyashiv and not all of them follow his rulings as they follow different authorities.
To categorically state that secular organizations are always up front with their sources is patent nonsense. The disrespect this commenter manifests indicates his hostility to Orthodox Judaism.
15
Oct 23, 2009 at 12:58 PM Fan of R. ECKSTEIN Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is not a Christian organization; its a fellowship of Jews and Christians; they do not advocate Christianity. To my knowledge they advocate Israel and the Torah.
Just recently, Rabbi Eckstien bailed out frum mosdos in the FSU, who had run out of money.
I am concerned that the Poskim are not receiving accurate information.
To come out publicly kie this is "Cofui Tov" and does not engender Ahavas Yisroel among the Gentiles.
Must we alwys shoot the hand that feeds us?
16
Oct 23, 2009 at 01:43 PM formally Says:Report as Inappropriate
the way I saw the pasak was that one should not take from those organizations. since he fells that have an agenda.
However, one still can take money from whoever jew gentle Muslem. even groups without this agenda
17
Oct 23, 2009 at 01:53 PM Reb Yid Says:Report as Inappropriate
Why does he have to out them? Can't he just continue to help support them? As long as they don't publicly take sides between him and R. Elyashiv, I don't see the problem.
18
Oct 23, 2009 at 01:42 PM Green Tea Says:Report as Inappropriate
Enough already!!!!
Stop taking bread out of the mouths of hungry children and struggling families. The largest soup kitchen in Bnei Brak recives life saving funds from Eckstein.
Pasken on your own cheshban!
Every day another psak from Israel that makes it harder and harder to live.
Rabonim, Have Rachmunus!!!
19
Oct 23, 2009 at 01:36 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is not a Christian organization; its a fellowship of Jews and Christians; they do not advocate Christianity. To my knowledge they advocate Israel and the Torah.
Just recently, Rabbi Eckstien bailed out frum mosdos in the FSU, who had run out of money.
I am concerned that the Poskim are not receiving accurate information.
To come out publicly kie this is "Cofui Tov" and does not engender Ahavas Yisroel among the Gentiles.
Must we alwys shoot the hand that feeds us? ”
there is more to the story of the IFJC which is why any org that is getting money from him needs to get special permission from a competent Rov
which is what some organizations have done (regardless of general blanket rulings)
20
Oct 23, 2009 at 01:36 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
check out his website and you will find how he is a mossionary stating the ties between chritianity and jews and inviting peole to israel to see for the themselvels the biblical sites and Jes-us sites. this is wlaking a thin line and his videos on cable look very much like missionary work,
21
Oct 23, 2009 at 01:20 PM whatever Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I guess that since you are a Posek on at least the calibare of rav elyashiv and rav wiess and the leading gedolim before them you know what your talking about oh I guess you understand poor pepole as well couse you unlike rav elyashiv are moser nefesh for Torah and therfore unlike rav elyashiv your the one who lives in house where not a singal room is big enoghf to be mechyav in a mezuzah lechatichlah and it only has a kitchen a washroom one bedroom and a living room oh sorry did I mix you up and that's rav elyashivs place so who the hell are you to come and passken what's mutar and asur how thr poor should live it's time guys like you shut up and stick your head back in the guttter you male me puke with your nonesense and I hope you even give tzedakah so your nedhamsh should have dome zechus in the olam ha'ames a c giving thrugh the above org. Is not considerd tzedakah ”
If only you knew the truth. You are the most pathetic person jumping to Judge me. While I did not attack Rabbi Elyashiv and nor did I even mention his name. I spoke to the essence of the Kol Koreh and Rabbi Eckstein. This is not and will not be the first nor last time that people present things to Rav Elyashiv and Rav Weiss and a kol koreh is issued that is later retracted or baseless. We all know how the influence pedling exists in and around many rabonim.
I have met Rabbi Eckstein and personally have a lot of respect for him. The first time I viewed his ad on TV I also thought it was some missionarry organization trying to convert jews. Reality check. Thats not the case. He controls where the money goes. Go and find out in Israel how many frum settlements and chedorim got money from him and his organization nothing bad has come out of it. Additionally dont judge me and my charity. If only I had more to give I would. But people like you who just rant and suffer from diareah of the mouth actually show that you dont care. Maybe you should "puke" it would help you. The reality is that the frum community doesnt even give enough to our own. There are families that dont have food. I can go on and on. Rabbi Eckstein is a man who has yiras shomayim and a good person. Trust me you can knock him from today till tomorrow he will just give to the organizations that understand that in todays world we need financial help from all sources.
But then again you know it all. and by the way just because a gadol lives in a 2x2 house does not mean he understands the poor. Remmeber he is a gadol and people take care of him. True he takes just what he needs and gives to others. But the poor people who have nothing, no-one gives to them at all. So shut up and stop believing everything that is shoved down our throats. The gemorah in brochos mentions that there will come a time that rabonim will be corrupt and bought off. Chas v'sholom am I thinking of Rav Elyashiv or Rav Weiss but Im talking about those who feel that they have to influence the gedolim.
Nebich on you
22
Oct 23, 2009 at 01:14 PM mikey says Says:Report as Inappropriate
this situation is so bazaar . I happen to know a bachur in nachal charedi who gets money from them . this is way too wierd. every should listen to daas torah period. no money from evangelicals and those who got should give it back publicly . our enemies shouldn't be zoicheh to support torah, but ourselves. who's eckstein rabbi? just curious
23
Oct 23, 2009 at 02:11 PM formally Says:Report as Inappropriate
the way I saw the pasak was that one should not take from those organizations. since he fells that have an agenda.
However, one still can take money from whoever jew gentle Muslem. even groups without this agenda
24
Oct 23, 2009 at 02:30 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I guess that since you are a Posek on at least the calibare of rav elyashiv and rav wiess and the leading gedolim before them you know what your talking about oh I guess you understand poor pepole as well couse you unlike rav elyashiv are moser nefesh for Torah and therfore unlike rav elyashiv your the one who lives in house where not a singal room is big enoghf to be mechyav in a mezuzah lechatichlah and it only has a kitchen a washroom one bedroom and a living room oh sorry did I mix you up and that's rav elyashivs place so who the hell are you to come and passken what's mutar and asur how thr poor should live it's time guys like you shut up and stick your head back in the guttter you male me puke with your nonesense and I hope you even give tzedakah so your nedhamsh should have dome zechus in the olam ha'ames a c giving thrugh the above org. Is not considerd tzedakah ”
Did you ever hear of punctuation? You are disrepecting all VIN readers by posting such incomprehensible statements. You also disrepect Elyashiv by your rambling words with his name thrown in to create some notion of respectablilty.
25
Oct 23, 2009 at 03:32 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Organizations making grants are required to post the list of grantee organizations on the 990. Does this mean that untill now Eckstien did not publish an accurate list. He lied? If that is so, how much more is he taking for himself than the $823,000 he reported for himself besides all the family members on payroll?
26
Oct 23, 2009 at 03:21 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Yidden, there is a simple solution to all of this. The Rabbonim should encourage their yungerleit to get out and get a trade and start to WORK. If they are able to support themselves, they wouldn't have to rely on anyone but THEMSELVES. A Gutten Shabbos.
27
Oct 24, 2009 at 12:55 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ You named yourself aptly. There is a world of difference between govt. money -- which a secular govt. appropriates through its taxing power and then spends as it likes -- and "charity" voluntarily given by a religious organization. ”
And Jews pay a very large share of taxes which go to those programs, far more in proportion than the actually minimal number of Jews who receive aid (except perhaps student aid).
28
Oct 24, 2009 at 09:16 PM Favorite anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Evangelicals have their own agenda, we should acknowledge this and at the same time give (some) of them the status of righteous gentiles. At least at present - they live moral lives, help Jews, give a ma'aser (I mean and who besides frum jews and very wealthy people actually give 10%) and all because their religion tell them to. Give respect where respect is due. If, in theory, Evangelicals would give money to Chai Lifeline an org that helps Jewish children and their families, would we really tell them not to take it? Lets not bite the hand that feeds us (quite literally) and be happy we have a friend.
MIKE HUCKABEE 2012!!!
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Oct 24, 2009 at 09:38 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
We should all be thankful that HaRav Elyashav made this declaration. For years, could not understand how religious and especially ultra-orthodox (chareidi) Jews would even think of taking this money and dealing with interfaith organizations. It is pashut a chilul Hashem. There is literally a plague of missionizing and intermingling in Israel today because of the laxity on the part of the memshalah. Anything and everything is allowed and with so many youth being completely ignorant and away from any yiddishkeit, the influence and impact of these groups is enormous. Where is yirat shamaim today? Baruch HaShem for Yad L'Achim and their tremendous successul work. May they go from strength to strength!
30
Oct 24, 2009 at 10:59 PM shockett Says:Report as Inappropriate
I went to yeshiva with eckstein.he was a nice guy.
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Oct 24, 2009 at 11:31 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I went to yeshiva with eckstein.he was a nice guy. ”
So? Does that make what he's doing, right?
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Oct 25, 2009 at 01:05 AM Klonimous Says:Report as Inappropriate
It is fascinating how individuals can espouse such strong caustic opinions against our Gedolei Yisroel without possessing evan any rudimentary facts (or intelligence for the matter). For example many individuals in this blog debase the idea that this organization is based on avodah zarah, I hope you gentlemen realize the motives of these "fine, philanthropic" christains. They believe that yoshke will come back (and convert the jews or send them to hell for that matter) after the jews return to Israel. They intend to hasten this goal by donating money and supporting the infrastructure of Israel. In a simple synopsis the "purpose" of this money is to convert you or send you to eternal damnation. Now Why would these rabbis be against that , Oh they must be corrupt.
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Oct 25, 2009 at 04:35 PM chief doofis Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ It is fascinating how individuals can espouse such strong caustic opinions against our Gedolei Yisroel without possessing evan any rudimentary facts (or intelligence for the matter). For example many individuals in this blog debase the idea that this organization is based on avodah zarah, I hope you gentlemen realize the motives of these "fine, philanthropic" christains. They believe that yoshke will come back (and convert the jews or send them to hell for that matter) after the jews return to Israel. They intend to hasten this goal by donating money and supporting the infrastructure of Israel. In a simple synopsis the "purpose" of this money is to convert you or send you to eternal damnation. Now Why would these rabbis be against that , Oh they must be corrupt. ”
There is a great deal of debate amongst our Medieval Gedolim as to whether or not Christianity is, indeed, Avoda Zara (not that I would defend it as an option to Judaism).
Many of our Gedolim today, are not people like the Ramban and others, who were able to debate Christians. A great deal of them have never read any of the writings of any competing religion. Perhaps Christianity is Avoda Zara. But, it you are unfamiliar with its views, did not (because you cannot), read any of its writings, and your vision of it is based upon hearsay, often from people who themselves are unfamiliar with the source material, then there is a big problem. Perhaps the leading authority today, on Judeo Christian polemic, is Rabbi (Dr, ) David Berger. Was he consulted? Was any other authority on Judaism vs Christianity consulted?
We are dealing with a serious situation. Many of the world's leading supporters of Israel, are evangelicals. If we are to shrug them off (and perhaps that's the right thing to do), should people who are incapable of reading their literature, incapable of facing them in debate, unable to directly ascertain the level of their involvement in the aid given, would not comprehend a balance sheet, etc., be the sole arbiters of what may be a matter of life and death to impoverished communities?
I find the language of the writer to be infantile, to say the least. The Torah uses the terms, Ba'al, Ashera, K'mosh, Dagon, Bel and Marduk. (in Ketuvim) These are names of bona fide, 100% Avoda Zara. The Gemara uses Hermes, Ifra Hermes, Markulis, Aphrodite, etc, in many instances. I do not accept the "holiness", the divinity, nor even the gift of prophecy awarded by Christians to their savior (note my use of the small s). If he existed at all, it was as a mere human, who, in many ways, if the statements in the Gospels are true, did not always act in accordance with accepted Jewish practice. Nonetheless, use of the term "Yoshke" is silly. If you choose to refer to him (small "h") either do so obliquely as I have done, or use the common appellations. We aren't babies!
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Oct 25, 2009 at 08:53 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Organizations making grants are required to post the list of grantee organizations on the 990. Does this mean that untill now Eckstien did not publish an accurate list. He lied? If that is so, how much more is he taking for himself than the $823,000 he reported for himself besides all the family members on payroll? ”
what ever makes you think he did not publish an accurate list???
perhaps he gave the money to another org which in turn gave it to others???
and in that case he does not have to publish the end organization which received the money as they did not get it from IFCJ
as to whether that org publishes a list has to do with that org
ps. in todays world its not worth it for any org - like eckstein's for example - to lie on the 990 or any other tax form