Jerusalem – Charedi Phone Reps in N. Israel Exposed to Indecent Calls

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    Jerusalem – The charedi community in Northern Israel is up in arms after discovering that women working as phone service representatives at Teleall, which serves government bodies and private organizations, were exposed to sordid calls. In one case a phone worker found herself answering unseemly questions about virility pills.

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    Teleall provides phone services for healthcare organizations, pharmacies, mineral water companies and Mifal Hapayis (Israel’s national lottery).

    “Employing charedi women should not be taken for granted,” a leading askan in the North told Hebrew website NRG. “Because of modesty issues rabbonim do not recommend women work outside of the home – only in cases where the financial situation is pressing and the woman needs to go out and get a job. Such cases require halachic clarification and a she’elas rov.”

    Following efforts by Shas Chairman Eli Yishai to boost charedi employment, the government selected Teleall for a pilot program at a contact center set up for charedi women in Tzfat. A few months ago a second phone center was set up in Tiberius.

    But recently the program hit a snag, bringing rabbonim from the North and Jerusalem into the fray. “I received a call from a charedi woman from the North asking me for guidance regarding an appalling incident that happened to her at work,” Rav Asher Idan, chairman of Kol Hana’ar, told an NRG reporter.

    Though he lives in Jerusalem, Rav Idan says other families from the North have also turned to him, since he is considered an authority on this area of halacha. “She answered a call that was supposed to go to a pharmacy,” recalls Rav Idan. “On the other end of the line was a man of about 60, who wanted advice on pills designed to increase virility. He asked her what it does. Because she was unfamiliar with the product he had to explain it to her and then proceeded to ask detailed questions. Only when she realized what he was referring to did she hang up on him.”

    When the case became known, similar accounts from other charedi women in Tzfat and Tiberius came to light. “I told a woman who asked me directly that she should quit her job,” said Rav Idan. “It’s analogous to the halacha on forbidden relations. If a married women is induced to speak about such matters openly with a man not in her husband’s presence, it’s considered gilui arayos.” Phone calls of this nature can be especially harmful for young women, both married and unmarried, he said.

    The phone system enables representatives to switch problematic calls to another station, but that option would be likely to cause another woman to stumble.

    According to Teleall CEO Gabi Arad, “This is a message service, therefore the phone representatives are not required to answer professional questions, but merely to pass the message on to the customer. Nevertheless, when the company became aware of the problem we made sure the calls would not go to the charedi representatives, but to other women.”


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    71 Comments
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    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Depending on what the man said, a question about ED and medications used to treat that condition posed to a healthcare and pharmacy call center is not sordid or indecent. It’s a medical condition.

    Seriosuly?
    Seriosuly?
    14 years ago

    Ha ha. A woman needs to ask a Rav before she takes a job outside of the house. What are we the Taliban? Tell that to the female doctors and lawyers in my shul.

    Aharon
    Aharon
    14 years ago

    All this over a wrong number?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    the first averah in the torah was putting too many chumras on women. they can handle it. its the men that can’t.

    Chaim
    Chaim
    14 years ago

    So send the men to work – you know like the Rambam, R’ Yochanan Hasandlor, the Chafetz Chaim, the Abarbanel, the Ramban

    joe
    joe
    14 years ago

    I never relized how delicate our women are.

    Use Your Head
    Use Your Head
    14 years ago

    What is “appalling” is not that the woman was exposed to a question regarding virility pills. There’s nothing sordid about a man asking a question about medication. What is appalling is that the woman had no clue as to what was being discussed and therefore needed to ask detailed questions about it. This is just silly! Who doesn’t know what Viagra is nowadays? Unless you’re living in a cave, this is common knowledge. This is a complete and utter joke.

    Midwestern Guy
    Midwestern Guy
    14 years ago

    We must be missing something here. A person could get such a call (wrong number) at their own home. And, as far as “modesty issues” go, my understanding is that a lot of these women work at home anyway. I’m not at all sure what this “Askan” is talking about.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    This shows the perverse logic of the chareidi position regaring the role of women outside the home. The simple answer, and the approach that would be taken by any normal woman when confonted by such calls is to simply HANG UP. But no, thats too complicated for these chaeidim who are looking for every possible excuse to keep women in the dark and C’V, have them work and contribute to the family’s parnassah. From their perspective, “hanging up the phone and not engaging in the conversation” is too much trouble and not a viable option. Instead, lets lock women away and not allow them to work. Instead, we will continue to send our rabbonim to the U.S. several times a year to schneur money from Chareidi kehilot in the U.S. and Europe to “feed the starving families” who are starving because of chumrahs imposed by those very same rabbonim. This is about subordination of women, not about tzinius.

    MDshweks
    MDshweks
    14 years ago

    Halachacly speaking this Rav is definately wrong. If she is doing her job profesionaly answering about a medical condition in medical terms – there’s nothing wrong about it!

    If she’s the type that’s uncomfortable (or too confortable), then she has an ethical question, which doesn’t have to be a federal case…

    and for her to “hang up on him” is out right stealing from her employer! that’s ok?!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Pardon my ignorance. Can someone please explain to me what is an “askan?” What is the job description, what educational background do these individuals have.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    This is the real world which apparently SOME Charedim have great difficulty in functioning in. These ULTRA sensitive people need to get real.

    Gefilte Fish
    Gefilte Fish
    14 years ago

    You’re an adult, grow up! answer the question in a very professional way, and gegangen vaater!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    To number 16: Your sister-in-law and her husband are not dirt poor. You are dirt poor because you think that a modest income is your key to nachas and happiness. They are richer than you will ever be because they devote their lives to Torah–something you neither understand or respect.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Its alittle confusing, here they force the government to give the chareidi women good jobs & when they get the job, they complain about the work they have to do. Or you have the cake or you eat it, you cant have it both ways, or you want to work for govenment or not!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    and you’ll decide what chumres to put or not to put?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    reply to #21 the lifestyle you call “crazy” is how the chafetz chaim writes one should live. you remind me of a mentally unstable person I know who once responded to someone calling him crazy that in todays day & age being called normal isn’t much of a compliment!

    SimchaB
    SimchaB
    14 years ago

    Reply to #21 : I suspect you never asked a shailoh in your life! What are your qualifications to make such an authoritative statement? When was the last time you opened up a Shulchan Aruch Even Haezer? If ever! So stop pontificating!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    At least we know the chairman of Kol Ha’naar is one …

    Abe
    Abe
    14 years ago

    I’m not exactly sure what the rabonim and frum women were thinking before the women started employment in this company. The article clearly states that “Teleall provides phone services for healthcare organizations, pharmacies, mineral water companies and Mifal Hapayis.” What the heck were they thinking before they took the job? Did they really think people will only call about headaches and baby formula.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    If a Chareidi woman was incapable of providing a simple answer or referral to this question without getting into details she might not be comfortable with than she had no business leaving her home without adult supervision. What kind of crazy excuse is it to invoke tzinius when there were so many possible ways of resolving the issue without a discussion of the sexual details.

    Askupeh (Part 1)
    Askupeh (Part 1)
    14 years ago

    Before everyone gets carried away let’s put things in perspective. The way I see it (correct or not) is that this call center answers to numerous requests and among them Viagra. A Woman rightfully detected in a callers question that his questions were meant to get into a dirty conversation. That’s how she felt and who can question her? Everyone who has been on planet earth for a while knows that phony calls abound. Before the days of Caller-ID (where people knew that they won’t get caught) we used to get them very often. I personally have gotten the dirtiest phony calls imaginable and yes, I hade to fight with my Yeitzer Horah to bang the phone down. I don’t know until this day if it was someone who knows me who tried to seduce me or it was a random phony call. My point is that Rabbonim have a right to be afraid. They shouldn’t be labeled Taliban for trying to do what is right.

    As to asking a Sheileh, I think this Rov got a little carried away due to the situation he put himself in. Nobody I know, me included ever asked a Sheiloh if we should send our wives to work. This is a personal decision between husband and wife just like many other decisions a person needs to make between

    Askupeh (Part 2)
    Askupeh (Part 2)
    14 years ago

    On Frumkeit there is a famous debate what should be the proper approach to Yiddishkeit. Some think that everything the Torah says is Osur (forbidden) is forbidden but everything else is Muttar (permissible), which this approach might lead someone to be a Novol Be’reshus Hatorah which can end up with pulling a person down the drain. The other approach is that everything the Torah says is Muttar (permissible) is permissible, and everything else is forbidden. This might lead a person to become a Taliban. The right approach is somewhere buried in between; where exactly, is for us mortals to figure out. That’s what we are here for to do the Rotzoin Haboireh; everything else is commentary. Let’s not be too hard on a Rov who only wants to do what is right.

    Garet Benson
    Garet Benson
    14 years ago

    It seems to me many of the talkback writers here were a bit quick to pass judgment. Based on the comments above I get the impression most of the writers may not be as familiar with charedi mores in Eretz Yisroel as they think they are. Yes, many charedim in EY are very isolated from the general society, often by choice. Is that really so backwards? Given a choice between secular Israeli culture and a sequestered charedi lifestyle, I certainly know which I’d prefer.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    So let them live in monastaries and leave the rest of us alone!

    Jersey Yid
    Jersey Yid
    14 years ago

    Why can a man answer questons about a women’s reproductive system, but not vice versa. Many chareidim have vehemently objected to a woman fielding taharas hamishpacha questions, claiming a woman should be comfortable addressing those issues with a male, but yet this article implies the exact opposite.

    YZster
    YZster
    14 years ago

    fyi: There were plenty of Rosh Yeshiva’s that got college degrees in the last century.

    MK
    MK
    14 years ago

    Do me a freakin’ favor!!
    This is just a “Rav” or “Askan” looking for attention.

    A)Why would the woman be answering questions about a product that she doesn’t know anything about?

    B)Once the man described the product “in detail”, why would he then ask her q’s about it? And why wouldn’t she just say, “Um, till 2 minutes ago I never heard of this product, how can I possibly answer your q’s? Let me transfer you to a supervisor so he/she can properly direct your call.”
    See how easy that is?

    C)If it was a crank call, hang up.

    D)If your job includes answering q’s about Viagra and you’re uncomfortable about that, ask to be given different responsibilities or take a different job.

    I believe that this is a made-up scenario designed to get someone some attention, which we are all falling for, including myself.

    Have a Great Shabbos, and don’t let such stories convince you that all your fellow Jews are such imbediles.
    If you do believe that, you’re only putting yourself down.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    aha so its the husbands that are supposed to be bringing in the income and supporting the wife but no, ppl think there smarter and they say we”ll just go sit and learn and for most of the time there not learning, they are doing it to there wifes. married woman shouldnt be supporting there husbands learning, the husband should be doing both. have an awesome shabbos. please dont mind if it hurt.

    MK
    MK
    14 years ago

    Do me a freakin’ favor!!
    This is just a “Rav” or “Askan” looking for attention.

    A)Why would the woman be answering questions about a product that she doesn’t know anything about?

    B)Once the man described the product “in detail”, why would he then ask her q’s about it? And why wouldn’t she just say, “Um, till 2 minutes ago I never heard of this product, how can I possibly answer your q’s? Let me transfer you to a supervisor so he/she can properly direct your call.”
    See how easy that is?

    C)If it was a crank call, hang up.

    D)If your job includes answering q’s about Viagra and you’re uncomfortable about that, ask to be given different responsibilities or take a different job.

    I believe that this is a made-up scenario designed to get someone some attention, which we are all falling for, including myself.

    Have a Great Shabbos, and don’t let such stories convince you that all your fellow Jews are such imbediles.
    If you do believe that, you’re only putting yourself down.

    formally
    formally
    14 years ago

    reading some of these comments I suggest that VIn has a release form for all woman who want to post and even read this comments from there husbands and rov’s.

    If the woman is single there is no need for her to see this things and should not be allowed to participate and or read this comments.

    formally
    formally
    14 years ago

    I think this is a great idea that cheradie woman take these calls.

    Why, I light bulb might go off every now and then and say, so that is whats wrong with my husbands, thanks the rov always said it was my fault
    .

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    There is no doubt in my mind that exposure to ther greater “velt” through working in a regualr job is spiritually cahllenging to say the least, and spiritually damaging. The fact of the matter is that the outdise world sees activities that we would find completely immoral as normative, and it is very hard not to be influenced by it. So you go to a bar after work with your co-workers, start drinking a little more than you should, all of a sudden you are drunk and your yetzer hora is on the prowl and itching to be freed. It can get ugly. That would not happen if you were in a Kollel all day or working in a Haimishe environment. That is why it is encouraged.