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West Bank - Shin Bet Arrests Jewish-American Extremist Accused of Killing Arabs

Published on: November 1, 2009 12:29 PM
By: Retures / FOX News
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Yaakov Yaakov

West Bank - Israeli authorities have arrested a Jewish-American extremist suspected of carrying out a series of high-profile hate crimes against Arabs, peace activists and a breakaway Jewish sect.

Israel’s Shin Bet undercover agents said that Yaakov “Jack” Teitel, a 37-year-old ultra-Orthodox West Bank settler, is behind the attacks, spanning 12 years. They said he had confessed to killing two Palestinians and bombing the home of an Israeli professor among a string of attacks over the past decade, after being arrested while handing out leaflets condemning homosexuals.

Police and security forces said Sunday that Teitel’s targets included the murder of two Arabs and bombing attacks against a prominent left-wing academic, a family of messianic Jews, a monastery and Israeli police, whom he accused of begin pro-gay.

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Jerusalem police chief Aharon Franco told a news conference that the father of four appeared to have acted alone during his long campaign of violence against those he saw as enemies. Authorities originally suspected a Jewish underground for some of the attacks. But acquaintances described the father of four as a lone wolf.

These allegedly included a Palestinian shepherd killed more than a decade ago and Professor Zeev Sternhell, an outspoken Israeli critic of Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank, who was wounded by a pipe bomb at his Jerusalem home last year.

Mrs. Teitel in court room as her husband Yaakov not pictured facing a judge being accused as a terroristMrs. Teitel in court room as her husband Yaakov not pictured facing a judge being accused as a terrorist

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Read Comments (66)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Nov 01, 2009 at 12:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Please, do not describe this person as "ultra-Orthodox." He is not Orthodox. Putting on a yarmulkeh and keeping kosher don't make you Orthodox if you kill people and plant pipe bombs. It sounds as if he simply likes violence and is using religion as an excuse.

2

 Nov 01, 2009 at 01:10 PM dovid's friend Says:

PLEASE, do not begin raining loshon hara on this yid. Whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant, it is still loshon hara. Whether it is truthful or not, it is still loshon hara!

3

 Nov 01, 2009 at 01:34 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #2  
dovid's friend Says:

PLEASE, do not begin raining loshon hara on this yid. Whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant, it is still loshon hara. Whether it is truthful or not, it is still loshon hara!

Are you for real this guy is being charged with murder, who is he the, judge, jury and the executioner, how you dare to even think that loshon hara applies to him he is being charged with murder for crying out loud, people like you twist the Torah for your wicked views

4

 Nov 01, 2009 at 01:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
dovid's friend Says:

PLEASE, do not begin raining loshon hara on this yid. Whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant, it is still loshon hara. Whether it is truthful or not, it is still loshon hara!

"... Whether it is truthful or not, it is still loshon hara!”

Sorry, but it is important to speak out frequently and loudly against such behavior just as we want the world to speak out against arab terrorism. This is terrorism, period and it makes NO difference whether the terrorist is a yid or muslim.

5

 Nov 01, 2009 at 01:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Please, do not describe this person as "ultra-Orthodox." He is not Orthodox. Putting on a yarmulkeh and keeping kosher don't make you Orthodox if you kill people and plant pipe bombs. It sounds as if he simply likes violence and is using religion as an excuse.

He came from an ultra-orthodox family, and his right wing extremism stems from his religious beliefs which were the motives for his murderous activities. Right wing extremists that I have seen in Israel were dominated by orthodox types and surprisingly most were immigrants to Israel from countries like U.S., Canada, Australia etc... It's about time that Shin Bet started regaining control of these dangerous elements because IDF has no control over them in the territories.

6

 Nov 01, 2009 at 01:08 PM formally Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Please, do not describe this person as "ultra-Orthodox." He is not Orthodox. Putting on a yarmulkeh and keeping kosher don't make you Orthodox if you kill people and plant pipe bombs. It sounds as if he simply likes violence and is using religion as an excuse.

I agree,

but then the same can be said about Muslim killers

7

 Nov 01, 2009 at 12:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Please, do not describe this person as "ultra-Orthodox." He is not Orthodox. Putting on a yarmulkeh and keeping kosher don't make you Orthodox if you kill people and plant pipe bombs. It sounds as if he simply likes violence and is using religion as an excuse.

An orthodox jew means adhering to torah principles , killing arab or jew is not the torah way , unless your life is threatned . I don't want to hear that someone that is a dreie kup goes into this catagory .

8

 Nov 01, 2009 at 12:58 PM hoply Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Please, do not describe this person as "ultra-Orthodox." He is not Orthodox. Putting on a yarmulkeh and keeping kosher don't make you Orthodox if you kill people and plant pipe bombs. It sounds as if he simply likes violence and is using religion as an excuse.

it seems you don't know what is the meaning of "ultra-Orthodox." !

9

 Nov 01, 2009 at 12:57 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Please, do not describe this person as "ultra-Orthodox." He is not Orthodox. Putting on a yarmulkeh and keeping kosher don't make you Orthodox if you kill people and plant pipe bombs. It sounds as if he simply likes violence and is using religion as an excuse.

I agree, but we need to make it very clear that the kinds of actions described here are absolutely asur under Jewish law and that we view them as intolerable.

10

 Nov 01, 2009 at 01:49 PM Proud Israeli Says:

Reply to #2  
dovid's friend Says:

PLEASE, do not begin raining loshon hara on this yid. Whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant, it is still loshon hara. Whether it is truthful or not, it is still loshon hara!

PLEASE don't start getting all holy & righteous about this mad murderer. Let him stand trial & if / when found guilty, let him rot in jail until the end of his miserable days just like yigal amir, marwan barguti & bernie madoff, yemach shimam.
The question again is..... will those who ideologically fed his sick mind with crazy ideas & justification for his actions go to jail too?

11

 Nov 01, 2009 at 01:44 PM 5T Resident Says:

In the Arab world, this man would be a hero.

13

 Nov 01, 2009 at 02:09 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #9  
Charlie Hall Says:

I agree, but we need to make it very clear that the kinds of actions described here are absolutely asur under Jewish law and that we view them as intolerable.

Terror against terror. Jewish blood is not hefker.

14

 Nov 01, 2009 at 02:14 PM formally Says:

Reply to #2  
dovid's friend Says:

PLEASE, do not begin raining loshon hara on this yid. Whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant, it is still loshon hara. Whether it is truthful or not, it is still loshon hara!

did you say the same thing about the guy in Monsey who sold trief chicken as kosher?

15

 Nov 01, 2009 at 02:11 PM eli Says:

I know this guy. He did not live in israel 10 years ago so could not have committed these alleged crimes.

16

 Nov 01, 2009 at 02:07 PM Truth is: Says:

Let us find out the details before accusing. I would not be surprised if the 'lone Arab shepard' was a terrorist on his way back from some Jew killing....and killed in self defense.

17

 Nov 01, 2009 at 02:38 PM Kalman Says:

It's comments like this that often make me think I'm on some skinhead or white supremacist website. Stop using the Torah to push bigoted, Jewish supremacist views. The same Torah that says Hashem chose us to obey his laws also is full of denunciations and curses against am Yisroel for being wicked and stiff-necked and disobedient. The same Torah says G-d chose us not because we were better or more righteous than others but because we were the smallest and most insignifigant of nations and He wanted to show His power and mercy. No, there is no difference between the blood of an innocent Jew and the blood of an innocent gentile. When did a torah of emunah and rachmanut become a cult of bloodlines and racial supremacy?

18

 Nov 01, 2009 at 02:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

He came from an ultra-orthodox family, and his right wing extremism stems from his religious beliefs which were the motives for his murderous activities. Right wing extremists that I have seen in Israel were dominated by orthodox types and surprisingly most were immigrants to Israel from countries like U.S., Canada, Australia etc... It's about time that Shin Bet started regaining control of these dangerous elements because IDF has no control over them in the territories.

Just judging by his appearance, he isn't what you would typically call ulta-Orthodox, but it fits the media line nicely. Most of these off-shoot beliefs are religious-zionist in nature. A religious-zionist will be called ultra-Orthodox when convenient to slur others who really don't share the same general view at all and lump them in the same stereo-type.

19

 Nov 01, 2009 at 02:28 PM A. Nuran Says:

If he's done what he's charged with he must stand trial and face the same penalties as any other murderer and terrorist.

And Milhouse, there is a difference between "our blood and theirs". Our blood is still on the inside. The blood of his victims was spilled on the ground. Whatever you think should be done to Gentiles who murder Jews must be done to Jews who murder Gentiles. All that Torah should have taught him that murder is wrong.

20

 Nov 01, 2009 at 03:31 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #19  
A. Nuran Says:

If he's done what he's charged with he must stand trial and face the same penalties as any other murderer and terrorist.

And Milhouse, there is a difference between "our blood and theirs". Our blood is still on the inside. The blood of his victims was spilled on the ground. Whatever you think should be done to Gentiles who murder Jews must be done to Jews who murder Gentiles. All that Torah should have taught him that murder is wrong.

Why would you argue with Millhouse his mindset is stuck in the dark ages I totally ignore him he lacks the understanding of Jewish history and what we should take away from our suffering for the last two thousand years. And lastly he is a bully, if you disagree with his views he will scorn you.

21

 Nov 01, 2009 at 03:46 PM anonymous Says:

I am not arguing for or against this man but a former
egyptian general is predicting more wars why should Israel allow the creation of a Palestinian state and why have peace talk and propaganda for war is deadly

22

 Nov 01, 2009 at 04:20 PM Daniel Says:

Reply to #17  
Kalman Says:

It's comments like this that often make me think I'm on some skinhead or white supremacist website. Stop using the Torah to push bigoted, Jewish supremacist views. The same Torah that says Hashem chose us to obey his laws also is full of denunciations and curses against am Yisroel for being wicked and stiff-necked and disobedient. The same Torah says G-d chose us not because we were better or more righteous than others but because we were the smallest and most insignifigant of nations and He wanted to show His power and mercy. No, there is no difference between the blood of an innocent Jew and the blood of an innocent gentile. When did a torah of emunah and rachmanut become a cult of bloodlines and racial supremacy?

Since parshas Lech Lecha

23

 Nov 01, 2009 at 04:13 PM Avraham Says:

Reply to #2  
dovid's friend Says:

PLEASE, do not begin raining loshon hara on this yid. Whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant, it is still loshon hara. Whether it is truthful or not, it is still loshon hara!

actually it is only lashon hara if it's true, if not it's called motsi shem ra

24

 Nov 01, 2009 at 04:45 PM Getzel the Pretzel Says:

Reply to #17  
Kalman Says:

It's comments like this that often make me think I'm on some skinhead or white supremacist website. Stop using the Torah to push bigoted, Jewish supremacist views. The same Torah that says Hashem chose us to obey his laws also is full of denunciations and curses against am Yisroel for being wicked and stiff-necked and disobedient. The same Torah says G-d chose us not because we were better or more righteous than others but because we were the smallest and most insignifigant of nations and He wanted to show His power and mercy. No, there is no difference between the blood of an innocent Jew and the blood of an innocent gentile. When did a torah of emunah and rachmanut become a cult of bloodlines and racial supremacy?

According to your "lomdus," killing a jew and killing a goy have the same din. You are incorrect. See the Rambam in Hilchos Rotzeach and the shulchan Aruch in CM.

"Stop using the Torah to push bigoted, Jewish supremacist views."

I hope you do not say shelo asani goy during brochos. The reform movement has the same type of ideas.

"When did a torah of emunah and rachmanut become a cult of bloodlines and racial supremacy?”

Huh? What relationship does Emunah have to this case? See the Chazon Ish sefer Emunah and Bitachon on what Emunah means.

I agree that if the charges are true what this indicidual did was k'neged hatorah, see Rambam in hilchos dayoos. However, what you say has no basis.

25

 Nov 01, 2009 at 04:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Kalman Says:

It's comments like this that often make me think I'm on some skinhead or white supremacist website. Stop using the Torah to push bigoted, Jewish supremacist views. The same Torah that says Hashem chose us to obey his laws also is full of denunciations and curses against am Yisroel for being wicked and stiff-necked and disobedient. The same Torah says G-d chose us not because we were better or more righteous than others but because we were the smallest and most insignifigant of nations and He wanted to show His power and mercy. No, there is no difference between the blood of an innocent Jew and the blood of an innocent gentile. When did a torah of emunah and rachmanut become a cult of bloodlines and racial supremacy?

This guy has nothing with religion, murder is one of the 3 aveiros you have to be moser nefesh, and it's one of the ten commandments.
The Torah prohibits taking the life of a person!

26

 Nov 01, 2009 at 04:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Kalman Says:

It's comments like this that often make me think I'm on some skinhead or white supremacist website. Stop using the Torah to push bigoted, Jewish supremacist views. The same Torah that says Hashem chose us to obey his laws also is full of denunciations and curses against am Yisroel for being wicked and stiff-necked and disobedient. The same Torah says G-d chose us not because we were better or more righteous than others but because we were the smallest and most insignifigant of nations and He wanted to show His power and mercy. No, there is no difference between the blood of an innocent Jew and the blood of an innocent gentile. When did a torah of emunah and rachmanut become a cult of bloodlines and racial supremacy?

I don't know which comment you are referring to, but all comments I saw here are CONDEMNING this (unfortunately Jewish) terrorist and all terrorist actions, so what makes you look like supremacist here?

28

 Nov 01, 2009 at 04:34 PM Yehudah Says:

wow.

I know he and his family well. They are wonderful people. If he indeed did these crimes, then he needs to suffer the consequences of his actions. HOWEVER, until it is proven that he did in fact do everything claimed and for the time claimed, he is an innocent Yid until proven otherwise.

In the meantime, how about instead of trashing he and his family, we daven for them, they certainly need it, as does all of Klal Israel.

30

 Nov 01, 2009 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:

mixed feelings on this subject. we as jews have been killed and torn apart for such a long time. to see a person to stand up and show that not everyone will do nothing makes me feel good. but as a person who knows killing inecent people is wrong it makes me feel bad that a jew would go around and hurt and kill. but then again how many children and women and men were hurt and killed the same way. its hard to judge someone when u have not lived in that persons shoes. the judge himself has that responsiblty and is a responiblty I would not want. there is no right answer when this happens. u have people who will say its wrong , u don't go around killing and hurting people. others will say its right ,we as jews don't have to get killed just because we are jewish, fight and kill just as is done to us. then again we are a different type of people.

31

 Nov 01, 2009 at 05:26 PM torahyid Says:

Reply to #17  
Kalman Says:

It's comments like this that often make me think I'm on some skinhead or white supremacist website. Stop using the Torah to push bigoted, Jewish supremacist views. The same Torah that says Hashem chose us to obey his laws also is full of denunciations and curses against am Yisroel for being wicked and stiff-necked and disobedient. The same Torah says G-d chose us not because we were better or more righteous than others but because we were the smallest and most insignifigant of nations and He wanted to show His power and mercy. No, there is no difference between the blood of an innocent Jew and the blood of an innocent gentile. When did a torah of emunah and rachmanut become a cult of bloodlines and racial supremacy?

"The same Torah says G-d chose us not because we were better or more righteous than others but because we were the smallest and most insignifigant of nations and He wanted to show His power and mercy" you obviously cannot read the Torah, as the Torah most definitely does NOT say this, the Yidden are the most significant nation in the world for without them the world would not exist as Chazal tell us. What the Torah does say is that Hashem didn't choose the yidden to be the treasured and holy nation for their size rather for the promise he made to the forefathers. "No, there is no difference between the blood of an innocent Jew and the blood of an innocent gentile", there are many differences, for a start one who kills a yid is chayav misah, one who kills a goy is not, one may and must be mechalel shabbos to save a yid, but one may not be mechalel shabbos to save a goy and the list goes on.

32

 Nov 01, 2009 at 05:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Milhouse Says:

Terror against terror. Jewish blood is not hefker.

Hashem yarachm on you for such bloodlust that is contrary to daas torah. While many other posters frequently say just to ignore your mindless rants, and I generally do, such stupidity in the name of yiddishkeit should not go unchallanged. Innocent jewish blood and innocent goiyeshe blood are the same to the Ebeshter.

33

 Nov 01, 2009 at 06:26 PM formally Says:

Reply to #31  
torahyid Says:

"The same Torah says G-d chose us not because we were better or more righteous than others but because we were the smallest and most insignifigant of nations and He wanted to show His power and mercy" you obviously cannot read the Torah, as the Torah most definitely does NOT say this, the Yidden are the most significant nation in the world for without them the world would not exist as Chazal tell us. What the Torah does say is that Hashem didn't choose the yidden to be the treasured and holy nation for their size rather for the promise he made to the forefathers. "No, there is no difference between the blood of an innocent Jew and the blood of an innocent gentile", there are many differences, for a start one who kills a yid is chayav misah, one who kills a goy is not, one may and must be mechalel shabbos to save a yid, but one may not be mechalel shabbos to save a goy and the list goes on.

therefore, do not complain when a goy treats you different and says you are not as good as them. Since, you believe that their lives are not are worthy as a yid.

G-d help us all if people like you gain any power

34

 Nov 01, 2009 at 06:24 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #32  
Anonymous Says:

Hashem yarachm on you for such bloodlust that is contrary to daas torah. While many other posters frequently say just to ignore your mindless rants, and I generally do, such stupidity in the name of yiddishkeit should not go unchallanged. Innocent jewish blood and innocent goiyeshe blood are the same to the Ebeshter.

No, they are not, and the fact that you could think they are proves that you need to leave the computer and open a sefer. This is not yiddishkeit you are preaching, it's some kind of universalist doctrine, unitarianism maybe.

35

 Nov 01, 2009 at 06:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

He came from an ultra-orthodox family, and his right wing extremism stems from his religious beliefs which were the motives for his murderous activities. Right wing extremists that I have seen in Israel were dominated by orthodox types and surprisingly most were immigrants to Israel from countries like U.S., Canada, Australia etc... It's about time that Shin Bet started regaining control of these dangerous elements because IDF has no control over them in the territories.

I also grew up in an orthodox family & community. I never in my life ever heard any rhetoric that promoted any kind of violence directed at anyone. Even after mass terrorist attacks I never heard our Gedolim ever preach violence in revenge for an inhumane act.

36

 Nov 01, 2009 at 06:37 PM torahyid Says:

Reply to #33  
formally Says:

therefore, do not complain when a goy treats you different and says you are not as good as them. Since, you believe that their lives are not are worthy as a yid.

G-d help us all if people like you gain any power

seeing as you don't believe in the Torah why do you post on this jewish site at all?

37

 Nov 01, 2009 at 07:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
OMG Says:

Are you for real this guy is being charged with murder, who is he the, judge, jury and the executioner, how you dare to even think that loshon hara applies to him he is being charged with murder for crying out loud, people like you twist the Torah for your wicked views

Why are you writing him off let's wait for a jury

38

 Nov 01, 2009 at 07:03 PM Curious Says:

It seems like our community is so gullible. Doesn't anyone have some curiosity as to the real facts in this case.

The feared Shin Bet secret police take this fellow away for weeks, without access to a lawyer, with sleep deprivation, psychological pressure, and physical coercion, and viola! they claim he has singlehandedly committed over a decade of crimes in Israel.

The police like to pin a bunch of unsolved crimes on a single suspect. For all we know, this poor fellow is complete innocent. Those who condemn the secular Zionists suddenly believe the secret police when it comes to claims against a fellow, frum Jew? Oh, I forgot, he is not exactly from our snit, from our sliver of orthodoxy, so it's okay to condemn him and assume everything said about him is 100% accurate.

Give me a break! This frum guy deserves a fair trial, not months of incarceration in a Shabak prison. I know someone who was totally innocent and suffered a similar fate. It took him years to get exonerated. These guys are not tzaddikim and they are not flawless.

39

 Nov 01, 2009 at 07:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

He came from an ultra-orthodox family, and his right wing extremism stems from his religious beliefs which were the motives for his murderous activities. Right wing extremists that I have seen in Israel were dominated by orthodox types and surprisingly most were immigrants to Israel from countries like U.S., Canada, Australia etc... It's about time that Shin Bet started regaining control of these dangerous elements because IDF has no control over them in the territories.

Typical anti-religious bigot. I am sure that if someone were to lump all Muslims with Muslim terrorists, you would be ranting and raving and denouncing them as bigots. Look in the mirror, YOU ARE A BIGOT.

I am what you would call a right-wing religious type. However, I would never even think of doing what this guy is accused of doing Nor have I heard my family or any of my freinds, who habe the same beliefs, advocate violence. It is totally contrary to our Torah and this is where our loyalty lies.

One other important note. You ("liberal" bigot that you are) have already convicted this man simply based on an accusation. A person is deemed innocent until proven guilty. This is a liberal principle, which I, a true liberal, believe in. You are a believer in the phony "liberalism" that masquerades as true liberalism, when it is nothing more than blind intolerance. .

40

 Nov 01, 2009 at 08:49 PM sbigwheeel Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

He came from an ultra-orthodox family, and his right wing extremism stems from his religious beliefs which were the motives for his murderous activities. Right wing extremists that I have seen in Israel were dominated by orthodox types and surprisingly most were immigrants to Israel from countries like U.S., Canada, Australia etc... It's about time that Shin Bet started regaining control of these dangerous elements because IDF has no control over them in the territories.

You are painting with a wide brush and deliberately so. You know as well as every other level headed person that the Torah prohibits murder, unless in self defense where there is a real and present danger to the person's life. So when he killed a person in any other circumstance he committed murder. Then don't use demagoguery and say that he was driven by his religious ideology. He has an inclination to commit murder in spite of his professing to be religious. It (your twisted way of judging) shows where you're coming from. Period!

41

 Nov 01, 2009 at 08:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Anonymous Says:

Typical anti-religious bigot. I am sure that if someone were to lump all Muslims with Muslim terrorists, you would be ranting and raving and denouncing them as bigots. Look in the mirror, YOU ARE A BIGOT.

I am what you would call a right-wing religious type. However, I would never even think of doing what this guy is accused of doing Nor have I heard my family or any of my freinds, who habe the same beliefs, advocate violence. It is totally contrary to our Torah and this is where our loyalty lies.

One other important note. You ("liberal" bigot that you are) have already convicted this man simply based on an accusation. A person is deemed innocent until proven guilty. This is a liberal principle, which I, a true liberal, believe in. You are a believer in the phony "liberalism" that masquerades as true liberalism, when it is nothing more than blind intolerance. .

When somebody calls out a spade when it comes to religious extremist, don't get all upset. It doesn't make the person bigot or liberal.Ohh, and Liberalism has nothing to do with ideas of "innocent until proven guilty."
I have seen and experienced enough of right wing religious types of his nature in West Bank to have made my comment. First, I never grouped all religious Zionists with dangerous extremists like this guy is, but he is not a lone wolf and there is an increasing number of these elements. Not only can they use the Torah to justify murdering INNOCENT Arabs, but I've seen ones that spat and attacked IDF patrols that protect these people because in their little obscure world. IDF is now an enemy and they will quote you all the halachas that supposedly give them the right to attack these innocent people.

This guy is not innocent at all. In fact he admitted to his murderous spree to the police and reenacted them all. I hope that Israel justice system will treat him the same as Palestinian terrorists. They should put him in the same cell with Hamas prisoners and then he can show each other whose religious extremism is more right.

42

 Nov 01, 2009 at 08:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Milhouse Says:

Terror against terror. Jewish blood is not hefker.

The most careless, silly and ignorant comment you ever posted.

43

 Nov 01, 2009 at 07:54 PM Anonymous Says:

I hope this guy is innocen, Innocent until proven guilty.
But the idea of conquering terrorism with terrorism is against the torah, against humanity and against every moral.

44

 Nov 01, 2009 at 07:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
torahyid Says:

"The same Torah says G-d chose us not because we were better or more righteous than others but because we were the smallest and most insignifigant of nations and He wanted to show His power and mercy" you obviously cannot read the Torah, as the Torah most definitely does NOT say this, the Yidden are the most significant nation in the world for without them the world would not exist as Chazal tell us. What the Torah does say is that Hashem didn't choose the yidden to be the treasured and holy nation for their size rather for the promise he made to the forefathers. "No, there is no difference between the blood of an innocent Jew and the blood of an innocent gentile", there are many differences, for a start one who kills a yid is chayav misah, one who kills a goy is not, one may and must be mechalel shabbos to save a yid, but one may not be mechalel shabbos to save a goy and the list goes on.

Hustu saychel redstu veiniger, mila besela, shtika bitrain.

45

 Nov 01, 2009 at 07:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
torahyid Says:

"The same Torah says G-d chose us not because we were better or more righteous than others but because we were the smallest and most insignifigant of nations and He wanted to show His power and mercy" you obviously cannot read the Torah, as the Torah most definitely does NOT say this, the Yidden are the most significant nation in the world for without them the world would not exist as Chazal tell us. What the Torah does say is that Hashem didn't choose the yidden to be the treasured and holy nation for their size rather for the promise he made to the forefathers. "No, there is no difference between the blood of an innocent Jew and the blood of an innocent gentile", there are many differences, for a start one who kills a yid is chayav misah, one who kills a goy is not, one may and must be mechalel shabbos to save a yid, but one may not be mechalel shabbos to save a goy and the list goes on.

You are big time mistaking, to kill a non jew is just as an issur as killing a jew, the punishment in the time of the sages was more severe when killing a jew, cuz the jewish people were more concentrated and lived together so it would be more common, so they put a more serious punishment.
But both are ossur by the Torah.

46

 Nov 02, 2009 at 07:13 AM torahyid Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

You are big time mistaking, to kill a non jew is just as an issur as killing a jew, the punishment in the time of the sages was more severe when killing a jew, cuz the jewish people were more concentrated and lived together so it would be more common, so they put a more serious punishment.
But both are ossur by the Torah.

Of course both are ossur by the Torah, I did not say otherwise. But the fact that there is no chiyuv misah on a goy is the halacha of the Torah and does not change, so don't be megaleh ponim baTorah..

47

 Nov 02, 2009 at 07:15 AM torahyid Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

Hustu saychel redstu veiniger, mila besela, shtika bitrain.

Would you say that to the Rambam as well, you think the goyim can't read the Rambam? The Torah is the truth and we have no reason to hide anything it says, b"h we are past the times of the censor.

48

 Nov 02, 2009 at 06:47 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #41  
Anonymous Says:

When somebody calls out a spade when it comes to religious extremist, don't get all upset. It doesn't make the person bigot or liberal.Ohh, and Liberalism has nothing to do with ideas of "innocent until proven guilty."
I have seen and experienced enough of right wing religious types of his nature in West Bank to have made my comment. First, I never grouped all religious Zionists with dangerous extremists like this guy is, but he is not a lone wolf and there is an increasing number of these elements. Not only can they use the Torah to justify murdering INNOCENT Arabs, but I've seen ones that spat and attacked IDF patrols that protect these people because in their little obscure world. IDF is now an enemy and they will quote you all the halachas that supposedly give them the right to attack these innocent people.

This guy is not innocent at all. In fact he admitted to his murderous spree to the police and reenacted them all. I hope that Israel justice system will treat him the same as Palestinian terrorists. They should put him in the same cell with Hamas prisoners and then he can show each other whose religious extremism is more right.

Don't use the word "religious extremism" it has nothing to do with religion, the religion only stands in the way of murderers.
Just call it plai simple "radical extremism".

49

 Nov 02, 2009 at 08:50 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #42  
Anonymous Says:

The most careless, silly and ignorant comment you ever posted.

not true. go look at evrything else he writes on VIN.

50

 Nov 02, 2009 at 09:40 AM Anonymous Says:

if not for Mair Kahana Israel would be in a different place so everyone please cut it out! There is no mitzva to just suck it up!

51

 Nov 02, 2009 at 09:38 AM Aharon Says:

Wake up he confessed

52

 Nov 02, 2009 at 10:49 AM Raphael Kaufman Says:

Reply to #43  
Anonymous Says:

I hope this guy is innocen, Innocent until proven guilty.
But the idea of conquering terrorism with terrorism is against the torah, against humanity and against every moral.

Fighting Gentile terror with Jewish counter-terror is not against the Torah and therefore cannot be against "humanity and every moral." The Torah teaches that if someone comes to kill you, kill him first. This poor zhlub's problem is that he was inept.

53

 Nov 02, 2009 at 12:04 PM Anonymous Says:

WHH
Mr. Kaufman. The poor "Zhlub" as you called him was not inept. I understand he was in the American Marine Corps, and was trained as you well know in an elite art of war. I imagine him coming to Israel and seeing a sort of Hefker here regarding protection of israeli citizens in the area which he lived, and I believe he felt he was protecting them and his family in the way he best knew how. I think both desperation and cold analytics drove him and I feel very sorry for he and his family. I don't believe in the madness of individual idealogues nor in innocent murder, however, under the present untenable circumstances in Eretz Yisrael the Government must take some responsibility for creating a climate where people are moved to desperation by their abandonment and consistent inaction against the relentless civil unrest with the Arabs. Only G-D can judge this man, and it is doubtful if any of the respondents here have the tzedek, the wisdom, competence or right to judge.

54

 Nov 02, 2009 at 02:25 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #43  
Anonymous Says:

I hope this guy is innocen, Innocent until proven guilty.
But the idea of conquering terrorism with terrorism is against the torah, against humanity and against every moral.

Where does the Torah say anything against it?

55

 Nov 02, 2009 at 02:25 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

You are big time mistaking, to kill a non jew is just as an issur as killing a jew, the punishment in the time of the sages was more severe when killing a jew, cuz the jewish people were more concentrated and lived together so it would be more common, so they put a more serious punishment.
But both are ossur by the Torah.

Do you imagine these laws were made by the sages? They were made by Hashem. Hashem said that the two crimes are not at all equivalent.

As for whether killing an innocent nochri (which these Arabs probably weren't) is murder, it seems to have the same din as killing a foetus. Funnily enough, though, those who insist the loudest that abortion is not murder, and that we should support it remaining legal in America, are the very same ones who also insist the loudest that killing a nochri is the same as killing a yisroel. What an amazing coincidence. Maybe they should have been around to advise Hashem when He was writing the Torah. Or maybe they don't really believe in the Torah at all.

56

 Nov 02, 2009 at 02:21 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #53  
Anonymous Says:

WHH
Mr. Kaufman. The poor "Zhlub" as you called him was not inept. I understand he was in the American Marine Corps, and was trained as you well know in an elite art of war. I imagine him coming to Israel and seeing a sort of Hefker here regarding protection of israeli citizens in the area which he lived, and I believe he felt he was protecting them and his family in the way he best knew how. I think both desperation and cold analytics drove him and I feel very sorry for he and his family. I don't believe in the madness of individual idealogues nor in innocent murder, however, under the present untenable circumstances in Eretz Yisrael the Government must take some responsibility for creating a climate where people are moved to desperation by their abandonment and consistent inaction against the relentless civil unrest with the Arabs. Only G-D can judge this man, and it is doubtful if any of the respondents here have the tzedek, the wisdom, competence or right to judge.

What kind of nonsense are you spouting? He was never in the Marines.

57

 Nov 02, 2009 at 02:20 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #51  
Aharon Says:

Wake up he confessed

He also confessed to crimes that he couldn't possibly have committed, so his "confessions" are not worth anything. As far as I know there is no evidence connecting him to the 1997 killings.

58

 Nov 02, 2009 at 03:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
dovid's friend Says:

PLEASE, do not begin raining loshon hara on this yid. Whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant, it is still loshon hara. Whether it is truthful or not, it is still loshon hara!

You're 100% right! YC

59

 Nov 02, 2009 at 04:05 PM Toras Moshe Emess Says:

To those of you out there defending the blood for blood, terror for terror line of logic: do you realize that (at least) four of the attacks he is accused of had NOTHING to do with "blood for blood, terror for terror." He is also alleged to have bombed a secular Jewish professor and a police station (as well as a monestary and a messianic family).

As much as one opposes secularism and a secular state, SURELY we should NEVER support, advocate or defend Jew v. Jew violence. As far as the monestary and messianics are concerned, again, as much as I am deeply offended by their presence in Israel, the idea of blowing them up with a bomb is equally offensive.

Arguing that he is innocent until proven guilty or being suspicious of the state secret police are valid and legitimate positions. However, this man is no defender of Jewish blood. We are only allowed to kill as a direct act of self-defense, NOT retaliation. If guilty, he is a murderer of innocents, and that is a chillul HaShem.

A last thought: have any connection been established between Teitel and the Kahanist movement? I, for one, would hardly be surprised if there were.

60

 Nov 02, 2009 at 04:02 PM Toras Moshe Emess Says:

Reply to #56  
Milhouse Says:

What kind of nonsense are you spouting? He was never in the Marines.

Actually, there were some earlier reports on another site that he was a Marine veteran. These reports have been corrected. He never served in the US military; it was, in fact, his FATHER who served in the Marines... as a dentist.

61

 Nov 02, 2009 at 07:08 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #59  
Toras Moshe Emess Says:

To those of you out there defending the blood for blood, terror for terror line of logic: do you realize that (at least) four of the attacks he is accused of had NOTHING to do with "blood for blood, terror for terror." He is also alleged to have bombed a secular Jewish professor and a police station (as well as a monestary and a messianic family).

As much as one opposes secularism and a secular state, SURELY we should NEVER support, advocate or defend Jew v. Jew violence. As far as the monestary and messianics are concerned, again, as much as I am deeply offended by their presence in Israel, the idea of blowing them up with a bomb is equally offensive.

Arguing that he is innocent until proven guilty or being suspicious of the state secret police are valid and legitimate positions. However, this man is no defender of Jewish blood. We are only allowed to kill as a direct act of self-defense, NOT retaliation. If guilty, he is a murderer of innocents, and that is a chillul HaShem.

A last thought: have any connection been established between Teitel and the Kahanist movement? I, for one, would hardly be surprised if there were.

The professor is not a "secularist" - he's an active Jew-hater and collaborator with the enemy. He shares responsibility for much Jewish blood being spilled; he's no innocent. And he's still alive, as are the missionaries, so you needn't be concerned about their blood.

And who says we may not kill in retaliation for terrorist attacks? Where did you derive this halacha? Was Menachem Begin and Etzel wrong when they did so during the Arab terror wave in the 1940s?

62

 Nov 02, 2009 at 11:46 PM starwolf Says:

Milhouse says: "And he's still alive, as are the missionaries, so you needn't be concerned about their blood." I wonder how you would feel if your child opened a bomb, and was badly injured. And so you don't like Prof. Sternhell's views, so you aren't too worried about his being wounded by a bomb. Your lack of sympathy is disgusting.

Still, for these particular crimes, attempted murder, rather than murder, will be the charge. the murder charges will be reserved for those attempts that succeeded--even if Milhouse happens to think that the victims are not innocent simply because they are Arabs. One can always count on Milhouse for a refreshing dash of racism in one's reading.

63

 Nov 02, 2009 at 09:54 PM Anonymous Says:

I don't know about you, but after 9-11, I was very upset that the arabs did not denounce the terrorism.
Whenver someone said "most muslims are horrified blah, blah, blah" I said "Good, I hope so, where are they and why are they not speaking out?
So, as soon as his crimes are proven, I think we should all speak out against him so that no one can claim that our silence is our agreement.
That being said, I know this guy and his family and they are not "ultra'orthodox". He is however, a real case and should have been in therapy for the last 20 years

64

 Nov 03, 2009 at 01:17 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #62  
starwolf Says:

Milhouse says: "And he's still alive, as are the missionaries, so you needn't be concerned about their blood." I wonder how you would feel if your child opened a bomb, and was badly injured. And so you don't like Prof. Sternhell's views, so you aren't too worried about his being wounded by a bomb. Your lack of sympathy is disgusting.

Still, for these particular crimes, attempted murder, rather than murder, will be the charge. the murder charges will be reserved for those attempts that succeeded--even if Milhouse happens to think that the victims are not innocent simply because they are Arabs. One can always count on Milhouse for a refreshing dash of racism in one's reading.

You say I don't like Stern-hell's views, as if you do. He is an ocher yisroel, just like Moshe Hirsch the Arafat collaborator. I don't condemn the (frum) person who threw acid in Hirsch's face, and I don't condemn whoever bombed Sternhell, whether it turns out to be this guy or not.

As for the missionaries, it is FORBIDDEN al pi din to have sympathy for a מסית ומדיח, or to speak in his defense, let alone to put oneself in his place and imagine how one would feel. Or do you not care about that halacha?

And yes, any Arab in EY is likely to be an enemy, just like any German during WW2. There are very few innocent ones. Or do you think it's racist to say that about Germans too?

65

 Nov 03, 2009 at 08:36 AM starwolf Says:

Reply to #64  
Milhouse Says:

You say I don't like Stern-hell's views, as if you do. He is an ocher yisroel, just like Moshe Hirsch the Arafat collaborator. I don't condemn the (frum) person who threw acid in Hirsch's face, and I don't condemn whoever bombed Sternhell, whether it turns out to be this guy or not.

As for the missionaries, it is FORBIDDEN al pi din to have sympathy for a מסית ומדיח, or to speak in his defense, let alone to put oneself in his place and imagine how one would feel. Or do you not care about that halacha?

And yes, any Arab in EY is likely to be an enemy, just like any German during WW2. There are very few innocent ones. Or do you think it's racist to say that about Germans too?

Funny how you mention that about Germans, because they killed innocent Jews--in the same post where you seem to advocate doing the same to Arabs. Not every Arab is a terrorist.

Kindly show me where it is forbidden to show sympathy for a child injured by a bomb.

Your views, seen in this and a number of other threads, show disturbing patterns, which you attempt to defend by halacha. You seem to think that Jews are permitted to do things that others are not--You have no problem with Jews committing terrorist attacks, for example.

To you, Judaism does not include hilchot ben adam l'chaveiro. Especially if the other ben adam is at all different from you--whether he or she be African, Arab, or even a different brand of Jew than yourself, you see no reason at all to treat them as human beings. You excuse it all by saying that your way is the halachic way, although we have seen a number of examples in your posts that you disregard the most basic halachot such as dina l'malchusa dina.

Whether you can justify your attitute of very selective picking and choosing of halacha is one thing. Your attitudes definitely prevent you from being a decent ben adam--much less ben Torah.

66

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:30 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #65  
starwolf Says:

Funny how you mention that about Germans, because they killed innocent Jews--in the same post where you seem to advocate doing the same to Arabs. Not every Arab is a terrorist.

Kindly show me where it is forbidden to show sympathy for a child injured by a bomb.

Your views, seen in this and a number of other threads, show disturbing patterns, which you attempt to defend by halacha. You seem to think that Jews are permitted to do things that others are not--You have no problem with Jews committing terrorist attacks, for example.

To you, Judaism does not include hilchot ben adam l'chaveiro. Especially if the other ben adam is at all different from you--whether he or she be African, Arab, or even a different brand of Jew than yourself, you see no reason at all to treat them as human beings. You excuse it all by saying that your way is the halachic way, although we have seen a number of examples in your posts that you disregard the most basic halachot such as dina l'malchusa dina.

Whether you can justify your attitute of very selective picking and choosing of halacha is one thing. Your attitudes definitely prevent you from being a decent ben adam--much less ben Torah.

A missionary is a meisis umediach. It is forbidden to have sympathy for him. It is forbidden to speak in his defense. And yet you persist.

67

 Nov 04, 2009 at 09:29 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #65  
starwolf Says:

Funny how you mention that about Germans, because they killed innocent Jews--in the same post where you seem to advocate doing the same to Arabs. Not every Arab is a terrorist.

Kindly show me where it is forbidden to show sympathy for a child injured by a bomb.

Your views, seen in this and a number of other threads, show disturbing patterns, which you attempt to defend by halacha. You seem to think that Jews are permitted to do things that others are not--You have no problem with Jews committing terrorist attacks, for example.

To you, Judaism does not include hilchot ben adam l'chaveiro. Especially if the other ben adam is at all different from you--whether he or she be African, Arab, or even a different brand of Jew than yourself, you see no reason at all to treat them as human beings. You excuse it all by saying that your way is the halachic way, although we have seen a number of examples in your posts that you disregard the most basic halachot such as dina l'malchusa dina.

Whether you can justify your attitute of very selective picking and choosing of halacha is one thing. Your attitudes definitely prevent you from being a decent ben adam--much less ben Torah.

1. So now an obscure clause in choshen mishpot has become "the most basic halachot"?

2. How do you get from "dino demalchuso dino" to an obligation to obey the law, anyway? Do you just pick on a random Aramaic phrase and claim it says whatever you want it to say? Can I claim that "lechi teichil kuro demilcho" means that one must eat milchigs for lunch?

3. Even if DdMD meant what you seem to think it means, who tells you that it applies to the USA, or to Israel? If the Ran's reason is correct then it doesn't.

68

 Nov 05, 2009 at 12:16 PM starwolf Says:

Milhouse, after reading your posts, nobody would ever expect you to beleive in obeying a civil law that you found inconvenient (smuggling, for example), nor would one expect you to believe in the basic principle of equal justice. You seem to believe that it is perfectly all right to physically attack those who believe differently than you do, for example. Terrorist acts do not seem to bother you at all, as long as Jews commit them against others. You seem to lack all sense of ben adam l'chaveiro. I can only imagine how you must feel about Yigal Amir and Baruch Goldstein.

You bhet that I sympathize with anyone injured or killed in a terror attack. As far as your opinions of missionaries, I wonder if it has escaped your attention that a child was seriously injured in the attack. Your lack of sympathy for children places you in good company. You can find similar opinions among the leadership and rank-and-file of Hamas and Hezbollah. Your morals would fit right in with them.

69

 Nov 05, 2009 at 06:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Everyone here has taken it for granted that this guy is guilty as charged, and apparently, most of them don't believe in - "Innocent until proven guilty". By the way, there are ways that the police have where they 'influence' the arrested party to 'confess'. Everyone knows that. Until all evidence is out there proving one way or another, we only know what we read. Eventually, hopefully, truth will prevail! In the meantime, as yidden, we should pray for the family and for klal Yisroel.

70

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