“ So...where do we send the Pidyom Shuvuyim money? ”

“ whats the difference who is right or wrong! do these guys deserve to go to jail for what a little fight they had? some of these guys are married with kids do their children have to suffer b/c of a political fight that got physical ”

“ They should go to Din Torah who is impartial. ”

“ u make big accusations with nothing to back it up! nobody had a fractured skull etc.. one bochur had a fracture in his hand which they call a boxers fracture, let me guess why he had a boxers fracture? maybe its cuz he threw some punches! they claim they have a video that incriminates shomrim, well have u seen that video? i guess that u have not! cuz if u did u would see who was aggresive here and who wasnt! despite the video being edited! its still shows nothing! the reason why we are here at this stage is because shmira messira used this a s a perfect oppertunity to screw shomrim! something which they have been trying to do for upwards of 10 years! and since u guys "know what ur talkin about" maybe u can justify the 140 million dollar law suit filed by none other than those bochurim themselves with their lawyer who is none other than the mosser leve huebner! who happens to be a shmira member and a their lawyer! so these bochurim who are testifing against shomrim actually have a motive here! a 140 million dollar motive! and heubner as well hes the lawyer he takes his lawyers fee! ”

“ If the injuries were as minor as you say, then why are these people facing up to 20 years jail? Obvously the injuries were extremely seriously, otherwise this case would not have got to the courts. ”

“ Only after the Shomrim members pleaded with Rabbis Avrohom Osdoba, Shlomo Yehuda Segal, and Yitzchok Raitport did they issue a summons for a Din Torah for all parties involved in the law suit against six Shomrim members accused of mercilessly beating bochurim residing in the dormitory at 749 Eastern Parkway, after being called to settle a dispute over a dormitory bed.

Upon receiving the summons to the Din Torah, the Bochurim involved arrived at Rabbi Osdoba's Beis Din exactly as the summons had stated, at nine in the evening. However, upon arrival the bochurim found the doors locked and lights shut, and after some quick phone calls they were informed that the Din Torah had been cancelled "after reexamining the situation, the Rabbonim decided there is no case for a Din Torah" someone close to the defence informed them.

Chabad.info has asked numerous individuals involved in this court case regarding their permission to approach the authorities, and the fact is that the Bochurim received explicit permission from both Rabbonim. And anyone who claims otherwise is simply spreading libelous slander. ”

“ It takes to long to dispell every falsehood emenating from the ultra mishichist movement, so to make this short; the typical Lubavitcher no longer support their sick cause (even the lubabs in crown heights that used to bend towards yechi, 95 percent of them woke up and dropped the yechi maddness) so now they have to sue some 'non believer' lubavitchers for 140 million dollars, that all israeli mishichistin wackos can dance yechi all day long without having to get a real job. And as a bonus, they get to watch 'non believers' led to jail, just as some extra entertainment for when yechi gets boring. Sadly, the Rebbe has to get a ll this agmas nefesh from all these israeli hoodlooms, with their yellow yechi trash, which like calling themselves Lubavitch. ”

“ Well if the injuries were bogus then that fact will come out in trial and the shomrim will be vindicated... why is the prosecutor even pressing charges if there were no real injuries? I'm waiting to hear the facts that come out IN TRIAL, not the political propaganda being spewed. Frankly I don't care what the meshichists or antis believe in, let them believe whatever they want, if it comes to broken bones then the perpetrators should be punished. And if it turns out that there were no real injuries then they should be acquitted. ”

“ something is very wrong in this case. What about all the money people are giving to Pidyun Shvuim. We are thinking this is a real innocent case against 6 members of the crownheights community. Meanwhile no beis din is taking place and the trial continues. Its not fair to everybody who is opening their wallets and not even a beis din is happening. I can understand if the bochurim did not show up but they did show up and nothing happened. I just hope Hashem will fix this mess before alot of people go to jail.
Unless this is a shmira member dictating the news above?
I feel like I am reliving the OJ Simpson Case but a chassidishe one. ”

“ As a matter of fact, if individuals assault others they do deserve to go to jail. It's called the law. ”

“ “Every Jewish Child Learned in Chader/Elementary that Mesira on another Yid is the worse thing. We heard stories, we read stories of how Yidden gave their own life not to Mossier G-d forbid on a fellow Jew. Anybody who has to still be convinced, is not from זרע היהודי [from the seed of Israel]“

Don’t waist your time convincing the people whom are rejoicing over Mesira!

Don’t waist your time convincing people whom Justify and excuse Mesira!

Those [Mossrim] are not our people, they are not our friends, they couldn’t care less and lets not forget they put us in this position!
”

“ shomrim that night came to fight with gloves laden with iron in them!!!! they used fire extinguishers, they broke one bochurs skull!!! they came that night to kill Jews. now they are crying? you pay the price when you act tough. it aint free to be have like that. that's all i have to say ”

“ It takes to long to dispell every falsehood emenating from the ultra mishichist movement, so to make this short; the typical Lubavitcher no longer support their sick cause (even the lubabs in crown heights that used to bend towards yechi, 95 percent of them woke up and dropped the yechi maddness) so now they have to sue some 'non believer' lubavitchers for 140 million dollars, that all israeli mishichistin wackos can dance yechi all day long without having to get a real job. And as a bonus, they get to watch 'non believers' led to jail, just as some extra entertainment for when yechi gets boring. Sadly, the Rebbe has to get a ll this agmas nefesh from all these israeli hoodlooms, with their yellow yechi trash, which like calling themselves Lubavitch. ”

“ Putting all my feelings about Shomrim/Shmira aside, this case is bogus.
The fact is that they were called on their hotline about a fight and responded. They never came as a gang to assault anyone.
They walked into a chaotic situation that escalated.
The fact that Shmira is using this story and their connections to potentially lock up frum yidden is a shanda. That the Rabbonim aren't stopping this is even a bigger shanda. That the community is silent is even a bigger shanda. And this is from a community that preaches achdus/mashiach/ahavas yisroel.

In fact, the headline is about a rift between shmira/shomrim. What does an assault charge have to do with a rift? What does shmira have to do with this case? Its because they setup the whole thing.

That's disgusting for a yid to do so to another yid.

"After yesterday's session, Huebner said, "I believe that the only place the case should be tried is in the court." Why not a din torah? Why a court? Where are the Rabbonim???? ”

“ If the injuries were as minor as you say, then why are these people facing up to 20 years jail? Obvously the injuries were extremely seriously, otherwise this case would not have got to the courts. ”

“ Putting all my feelings about Shomrim/Shmira aside, this case is bogus.
The fact is that they were called on their hotline about a fight and responded. They never came as a gang to assault anyone.
They walked into a chaotic situation that escalated.
The fact that Shmira is using this story and their connections to potentially lock up frum yidden is a shanda. That the Rabbonim aren't stopping this is even a bigger shanda. That the community is silent is even a bigger shanda. And this is from a community that preaches achdus/mashiach/ahavas yisroel.

In fact, the headline is about a rift between shmira/shomrim. What does an assault charge have to do with a rift? What does shmira have to do with this case? Its because they setup the whole thing.

That's disgusting for a yid to do so to another yid.

"After yesterday's session, Huebner said, "I believe that the only place the case should be tried is in the court." Why not a din torah? Why a court? Where are the Rabbonim???? ”

“ i do not know the facts in this case nor am i in a position to judge the claimants, but for those of you who are claiming that this is clear cut mesirah, i was wondering if you could explain to me the psak of the tzitz eliezer zt''l19:52 that in a just nation, and he used europe as an example, there is no concept of mesirah, or that of rabbi elyashiv shlita quoted in the davar sinai 45-46 based on the panim meorot where he says their is no concept of mesirah nowadays, although he states that depending on the indivisual case their may still be chillul hashem, or that of harav wosner shlita Shevet Halevi, Yoreh Deah 58, with support from a maharam alshich, where he states that if the law in question would be covered by the nations rights under dina dimalchuta dina, their is no mesirah, with the only prohibition being hashavas aveidah lagoy, which doesnt apply togovernments, although he frowns on the practice of actually bringing jews to court as not being the practice of the righteous, while their are others who disagree with this and i may reference them in a later post, mesirah is not quite so clear cut as some think (much thanks to jlaw for the sources) tms''a- gavi ”

“ ... please do testify on behalf of Shoimrim and by doing so completely ruin any chance they have to get out of this mess. Your comment essentially confirms what the yellow boogie men you appear to love so much were saying all along: this was a pogrom motivated exlusively by politics of "yechi" vs. "not quite" and they beat the living lights out of those bochrim as an act of political account-setting. It had nothing to do with enforcing law and order and "serving the community". According to you, Shoimrim are a gang hired to enforce one sheetah over all others and violently put down any discord... Very nice.

I hope and pray that bochrim drop the case;
I hope and pray that Shomrim do complete tshuva (including asking mechila from those they harmed, etc.);
I hope and pray that we all (Shoimrim, Shmira, Yechiniks, Schmechiniks, Tzfatis, Eilatis and Detroitis, and don't forget Lubavitchers as well as Chabadniks) sit and farbreng together mit alle Yiddn gam yachad at Beis Chayeinu b'koroiv. Omeyn ”

“ If the Shomrim did nothing wrong they have nothing to fear.
but growing up in crown heights i really doubt that... ”

“ Shomrim was involved in many mesiras, and this is the only too stop them. The community faced the other cheek, now every body wakes-up. It should of been taken care of from the get-go, instead, many CHs were locked-up through out the past decade. ”

“ 6. A clear video obtained by the police clearly shows the bochurim asking the Shomrim to leave the building, but they refused and aggressively forcing their way into the apartment of question.
7. Gadi hershkoph with a lead laced gloves cracked the skull of one bochur with his fists, and beat others to a pulp. This is bono fide and clear to anyone that sees the video.
8. Over the course of the last two years or so that this incident had started, the Shomrim were given the opportunity to settle out of the courts. With the following request: 1. Apologize to the bochurim 2. Remove their hate filled site that bashmutzis the community. 3. Refrain from any further fighting, arguing, and antagonizing members of the community. By doing the above the Shomrim members are clearly showing they have no interest in fighting with the bochurim or dispensing any further vile and disgusting hate filled stories on the internet.
9. The above offer was delivered to the Shomrim coordinators through, the rabbanim, the heads of hatzalah, the vaad hakahol, and many other community leaders, even the police offered to settle this issue The Shomrim refused every person who presented their offer! ”

“ get rid of these people they only make a bad name for the jews. let the police do their work and let these guys volunteer in soup kitchens. ”

“ Really? Name someone Shomrim massered. ”

“ I am not part of the Crown Heights community although I did grow up very close to there, but that was in th 50's and 60's when the community was just forming into what it is now. The actions of both groups are an embarrassment to Jews everywhere and beyond my understanding of what I thought the movement there was all about. Totally mind blowing to read about how these men are making fools of themselves and their community. Shame on such disgraceful behavior. Why is this matter not in the hands of a neutral Bet Din? ”

“ It's got nothing to do with "yechi". It's got everything to do with the Tzfatim violently taking over Crown Heights. This is all about a bochur who was being thrown out of his room by the Tzfatim. What right did they have to do that? The dorm belongs to the yeshivah, not to them. It was paid for by donors who gave money to build a yeshivah dorm, not a propaganda center for a violent cult. This bochur called for help; whom should he have called? The police?! He called Shomrim, and Shomrim came to his rescue, and had to beat off the gang of criminals that were throwing him out.

As a result of this case, they no longer respond to such calls; now bochurim who are being bullied and beaten and harassed by the Tzfatim have no recourse. Me'ayin yovo ezrom? Who will help them, beside Hashem? They have no choice but to go along with whatever the Tzfatim tell them, or else. ”

“ Glad we agree that this had nothing to do with "yechi" and all attempts to make it sound otherwise will only be detrimental to the accused. Now, I wasn't there nor am I in CH most of the time - I only go by the info from the too diametrically opposing views. But what you are saying left me more confused then before. If the bochur was indeed thrown out of his room, was there no other people of authority he could have complained to? Hanholo maybe?Why call the shomrim who are supposed to be busy keeping the sh'chunah safe from real criminals? Do you not think that shomrim may have overstepped their authority (slightly) by beating people up?
Re."Tzfatim" , I'm sure you know better but my experience with Israeli bochrim on kvutza is entirely different. I only met some of the most eidel chassidishe boys (who are proud to call themselves "Tzfatim"). If there is a bad apple here or there, this has to be dealt with but you are not helping the situation at all by drawing paranoia-inspired war lines through Lubavitch.
This is a sad sad situation and I hope nobody is dumb enough to scream didan notzach when it's all over. ”

“ you are right per say about the shulchan aruch, although the shulchan aruch would obligate someone to inform on a person who is a risk to the public or in a case where the government would get a hint that they werent informing, and i never denied that their is a strong argument that mesirah is still as strong now as it ever was, which is accepted by many rebeim including reb moshe , but when rabbi wosner rabbi elyashiv the tzitz eliezer the maharam alschich and the aruch hashulchan (who dispite claims that his comment as to that regard could have been influenced by the censor, probabely meant it do to the fact that such "censorized" comments usually came in the footnotes and not the main text) say something is not mesirah, you should be melamei zechut on those who choose to pasken by them, additionally, their is a concept, look at shmuel hanagids introduction to toshba, that when a later authority states something in opposition to an earlier authority, we tend to lean towards the later authority because we assume he was fully aware of what the earlier authority said and determined his opinion accordingly, tmtsa- gavi (please fill in shlitas and zatzals where appropriate) ”

“ you are right per say about the shulchan aruch, although the shulchan aruch would obligate someone to inform on a person who is a risk to the public or in a case where the government would get a hint that they werent informing, and i never denied that their is a strong argument that mesirah is still as strong now as it ever was, which is accepted by many rebeim including reb moshe , but when rabbi wosner rabbi elyashiv the tzitz eliezer the maharam alschich and the aruch hashulchan (who dispite claims that his comment as to that regard could have been influenced by the censor, probabely meant it do to the fact that such "censorized" comments usually came in the footnotes and not the main text) say something is not mesirah, you should be melamei zechut on those who choose to pasken by them, additionally, their is a concept, look at shmuel hanagids introduction to toshba, that when a later authority states something in opposition to an earlier authority, we tend to lean towards the later authority because we assume he was fully aware of what the earlier authority said and determined his opinion accordingly, tmtsa- gavi (please fill in shlitas and zatzals where appropriate) ”

“ im curious to see an example of where the oruch hashulchan gives a intext censored comment in CS (which is the section this seemst to apply to) regardless, it appears that he was not writing for the censor because he made a reference to the british system of democracy in his description of a just government, which would be a strange thing to do for a censor in a antibrittish country, and your description of a censored comment doesnt seem to fit, with the probable exception of him including russia as a just country, regradless, i am sure that Rabbi Elyashiv Rabbi Wosner The Maharam Alschich The tzitz eliezer and, to a much lesser degree, Rabbi Yitzchak Shmelkes (he still bans it but only as tort, not as mesirah) know much more about hilchos mesirah than i do, and if they all say that mesirah doesnt exist in countries like ours than im sure they have something to be somech on, as to your point on the shulchan aruch, ill conceed it to you based on the fact that i am not that familiar with the relevant seifim, although the reason that ive seen given is chillul hashem not persecution tmts''a- gavi ”