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Israel - Bill in Knesset Committee Could Jail Grandparents for Giving Their Grandchildren Kiddush Wine |
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The bill, proposed by Kadima MK Yohanan Plessner, is one of a series of legislative acts aimed at reducing violence by restricting drinking by minors and adults. But Plessner's proposal, which addressed a specific problem, got bogged down as the committee tried to include every possible situation.
At least two other MKs, Haim Katz (Likud) and Law Committee chairman David Rotem (Israel Beiteinu) have proposed private member's bills, while the government is preparing a comprehensive bill dealing with the issue.
But Plessner said the government proposal would take a long time, while his bill dealt with the specific goal of cutting down the supply of alcohol available to those under the age of 18.
The bill in its original form, which has already passed a preliminary reading, stated that "anyone who obtains an alcoholic beverage for someone who has not yet reached the age of 18, or who does so at the request of a minor or of someone else will be sentenced to three months in jail."
Rotem, however, said the bill did not go far enough. He suggested clarifying that the law would also apply to minors who provide alcoholic drinks to other minors.
The committee chairman also suggested increasing the sentence to six months to place the punishment on a par with that provided for anyone who sells or provides alcoholic beverages directly to minors.
The committee also discussed the possibility of legally prohibiting other situations, such as that of a grandfather who offers his grandchild a drink of kiddush wine without the explicit permission of the child's parents.
Some of the invited experts tried to cool the ardor of Rotem and other MKs, including Avraham Michaeli (Shas), who was concerned about minors drinking at weddings and other festive occasions.
Attorney Yishai Sharon, the representative of the Public Defender's Office, warned that the law could get out of hand. He said he supported Plessner's original proposal, but added that the Knesset should not enact too many such laws because the police could not enforce them all and because their attention might be deflected from the more important prohibitions, such as the prohibition on the provision of alcohol directly to minors.
Yitzhak Kadman, executive director of the National Council for the Child, urged the committee not to apply the law to minors because it would mean criminal records for those who had broken the law only once, or under innocent circumstances. Furthermore, he urged that instead of handing down jail sentences, the law should call for heavy fines which would be collected immediately. This would prove a better deterrent, he said.
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Read Comments (14) — Post Yours »
1
Nov 03, 2009 at 09:10 AM yosse nathan Says:
we all laugh about this and think its funny , but because of this law it stops hosts from giving alcoholic drinks to under age kids on purim then it is well worth it to have such a law passed.
2
Nov 03, 2009 at 09:14 AM What a ridiculous country! Says:
Bored souls with no concept of laws and freedom. Is everyone a fanatic in that country?! Can't they see that there should be exceptions like kiddush? Besides how much is that already? Maybe an ounce? Nobody gets drunk from that. Plus its in your own house. How can they tell you what to do in your own house. Are they going to have a Gestapo and kick doors in Friday nights to see who isn't in compliance?
3
Nov 03, 2009 at 09:43 AM Anonymous Says:
“ we all laugh about this and think its funny , but because of this law it stops hosts from giving alcoholic drinks to under age kids on purim then it is well worth it to have such a law passed. ”
"Forbidden fruit is sweet", The lowest rate of alcoholics exists by frum people
where alcoholic beverages are not forbidden. Years ago I had a Swedish cleaning
lady that led a very conservative, traditional home. One day she confided to me
that her 16 yr old son had begun to drink beer. I told her,"what's the big deal, in
stead of making a fuss, put a few bottles of beer in the fridge, and see whether
he will continue to drink" I continued to tell her that we never restrict our children,
we have wine, beer and whiskey in our house all the time and none of my children
ever drank more than a drop and spit it out.
I hate to tell you that even "drugs", in countries where drugs are legitimate, they
have they lowest rate of drug addicts.
The more something is forbidden, that much more enticing it becomes
4
Nov 03, 2009 at 09:49 AM Anonymous Says:
Except in cases where the grandparents don't have explicit parent approval for giving the yinglach wine, this is overkill. However, any other adults should be held strictly accountable for holding a simcha where children under 18 have access to any wine or alcohol no matter how good the intentions or the local minhagim. The law should trump any minhag of giving yinglach wine at simchas. There is no chiyuv to drink wine; grape juice is fine for kids (and probably a better option for most adults).
5
Nov 03, 2009 at 09:58 AM punch Says:
instead of being concerned with kiddush wine they should close the clubs on shabbos which result in weekly violence, sometimes deadly.
6
Nov 03, 2009 at 09:58 AM Overall i'd have to disagree with you Says:
“ "Forbidden fruit is sweet", The lowest rate of alcoholics exists by frum people
where alcoholic beverages are not forbidden. Years ago I had a Swedish cleaning
lady that led a very conservative, traditional home. One day she confided to me
that her 16 yr old son had begun to drink beer. I told her,"what's the big deal, in
stead of making a fuss, put a few bottles of beer in the fridge, and see whether
he will continue to drink" I continued to tell her that we never restrict our children,
we have wine, beer and whiskey in our house all the time and none of my children
ever drank more than a drop and spit it out.
I hate to tell you that even "drugs", in countries where drugs are legitimate, they
have they lowest rate of drug addicts.
The more something is forbidden, that much more enticing it becomes ”
True that what your saying will work for many cases but not all. There are frum alcoholics and they grew up with the alcohol in full view. Some kids drink too much at simchos its just a fact. Be it shabbos kiddush in shul or by vorts and chasunos. NOT TO MENTION PURIM AND SIMCHAS TORAH. We have a bigger problem than you think. We jews like to drink and some don't know when to stop.
7
Nov 03, 2009 at 10:15 AM Loshon Hora Says:
The mohel at the Bris?
Lechayim to all readers.
8
Nov 03, 2009 at 10:25 AM Anonymous Says:
?????????? redonculous ...
9
Nov 03, 2009 at 11:36 AM deep thinker Says:
“ instead of being concerned with kiddush wine they should close the clubs on shabbos which result in weekly violence, sometimes deadly. ”
the weekend violence is something they wouldn't mention since this is orchestrated by chilonim as opposed to kiddush which is practiced by chareidim. as in all times, jews were the blame for problems chareidim are always at fault in modern israel
10
Nov 03, 2009 at 11:38 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The mohel at the Bris?
Lechayim to all readers. ”
you made me laugh on this one.
(i assume you're referring to the mohel dipping his finger in the wine & thereafter putting it in the baby's mouth)
11
Nov 03, 2009 at 12:07 PM formally Says:
“ instead of being concerned with kiddush wine they should close the clubs on shabbos which result in weekly violence, sometimes deadly. ”
yes
the clubs that at called shuls where the rioter daven
12
Nov 03, 2009 at 12:35 PM Anonymous Says:
“ we all laugh about this and think its funny , but because of this law it stops hosts from giving alcoholic drinks to under age kids on purim then it is well worth it to have such a law passed. ”
putting two things in same sentence highlights differences. there is no need for any drinking on Purim. ad d'lo yadah only applies to the seuda, and if everybody was as makpid with all the other mitzvos, we would do just fine. i'm sure no gadol would object to giving more tzedakah on purim instead of wasting money on shikrus. kiddush, in most cases divides a "large" reviis, say 6 ounces among several people, and nobody gets hurt.
13
Nov 04, 2009 at 05:21 AM me Says:
Even during prohibition in the USA when alcohol was constitutionally prohibited there was an exclusion for "sacramental purposes". The failure of the Israeli govt to add such an exclusion demonstrates that it is more aimed at attacking the orthodox then preventing chilonim from drinking and driving on the same Friday night.
14
Nov 04, 2009 at 08:43 PM Anonymous Says:
With all the problems that they have, the Knesset has nothing better to do than come up with insane rules and regulations (it's a matter of control). What they really mean is that under 18 - no alcoholic beverages! What they need is to bring back Yiddishe education in the schools, so the kids can grow up normal without drugs and drinking. Years ago, such things were unheard of.