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Sioux Falls, SD - Rubashkin Trial: Fed Informant Infiltrated Agriprocessors |
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The Cedar Rapids-based special agent was called to testify by lawyers for Sholom Rubashkin, the plant’s former vice president, who is on trial for 91 financial fraud charges.
The informant, “S.A. 007,” was hired on the third try after he or she presented legitimate documents which were provided by federal investigators, special agent Michael D. Fischels told a federal jury.
Fischels, an agent with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, was a lead investigator in the case that led to a May 2008 immigration raid at Agriprocessors, Inc. in Postville.
Fischels told jurors that the unnamed informant first applied to work at Agriprocessors on Nov. 8, 2007. The source – who, like many workers, was Hispanic – entered the plant wearing a hidden recorder and transmitter, Fischels said. Plant managers rejected the worker because his Social Security and resident alien cards were clearly fraudulent, Fischels said.
The information applied again on Dec. 11, 2007, and was once more rejected, Fischels said.
Agents then furnished the informant with legitimate documents from a forensic laboratory in Washington, D.C., Fischels said. The informant was hired, and provided authorities with information about happenings inside the plant, Fischels said.
Prosecutors noted on cross-examination that Elizabeth Billmeyer, the plant’s human resources manager, had spoken with investigators about illegal immigrants at the plant as far back as October 2007.
Rubashkin is charged with bank, mail and wire fraud, money laundering and ignoring an order to pay livestock providers in the time required by law. He has pleaded not guilty.
Defense lawyers also called state Sen. Jack Kibbie, D-Emmetsburg, who testified that he sold “several hundred thousand dollars worth” of cattle to the plant each year but did not interact directly with Rubashkin
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Read Comments (49) — Post Yours »
1
Nov 04, 2009 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:
wow some good news coming in.hope this is a major victory for them
2
Nov 04, 2009 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:
Looks like even when they can't get you, i.e. you play by the rules everybody claims all of us need to do in order not to have trouble with the law, and rightfully so, they can still "get you". What a sad democracy we live in!
3
Nov 04, 2009 at 04:47 PM Anonymous Says:
So? all yiden bashers come on!!!!
4
Nov 04, 2009 at 04:50 PM Anonymous Says:
so if this does not prove attempted entrapment, what will?
5
Nov 04, 2009 at 04:50 PM Anonymous Says:
thanks for keeping us informed of whats going on
6
Nov 04, 2009 at 04:53 PM jax Says:
If at first you dont succeed.... THREE times till he got hired. Obviously they werent khalishing for illegals.
7
Nov 04, 2009 at 05:03 PM True & Free Says:
Justice in the US is simple. I can break the law to entrap you to break the law. Then I charge you for breaking the law.
What's the difference between the two lawbreakers? One wears a badge and one does not. One gets a feather in his cap and one has his life ruined.
What a mockery of the word 'justice'.
8
Nov 04, 2009 at 05:05 PM Anonymous Says:
Unfortunately this proves nothing. His lawyers are grasping at straws. He needs a new team.
9
Nov 04, 2009 at 05:02 PM Levi Says:
“ so if this does not prove attempted entrapment, what will? ”
Entrapment? Um, the undercover guy first went in several weeks AFTER the first complaints reached the authorities. Read the article carefully, please.
10
Nov 04, 2009 at 05:07 PM Anonymous Says:
Sholom Rubashkin would be well advised to try to get a plea deal like "Go probe all you want", Bernard Kerik.
11
Nov 04, 2009 at 05:07 PM Anonymous Says:
“ wow some good news coming in.hope this is a major victory for them ”
I fail to see how this is good news. This is devastating to the defense.
1) It says that he tried 3 times and got in the third time. "The informant was hired, and provided authorities with information about happenings inside the plant, Fischels said.". That means that they have evidence.
2) Bitlmeyer conracted the authirities in 2007 to complain. Aron Rubashkin put the blame on her. Why would she call the authorities in 2007 if she was the one that did all the fraud? This leads to problems with Aron Rubashkin's testimony.
If we can see this, can't the jury see this also?
12
Nov 04, 2009 at 06:46 PM Ze'man Says:
its time for a dream team....bring in Johnny Corcoran
13
Nov 04, 2009 at 06:21 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:
“ so if this does not prove attempted entrapment, what will? ”
This doesn't "prove entrapment" and the defense isn't arguing entrapment because it is a weak defense that rarely prevails. What this describes IS 110% NOT ENTRAPMENT. It is not entrapment to provide a person with the opportunity to commit a crime if they are ready and willing to commit that crime. As the feds had spoken to the HR manager and knew that illegals were being hired, what is described here doesn't even fall under the shadow of entrapment - which can occur when a person is persuaded to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit. That's why informants are well versed in the law and know what they can and cannot do.
14
Nov 04, 2009 at 06:18 PM formally Says:
for a minute i was thinking it was good news,
But why hire a guy who comes in for a job with 3 different identities
15
Nov 04, 2009 at 05:30 PM Anonymous Says:
SA007 isn't that James Bond?
16
Nov 04, 2009 at 09:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ its time for a dream team....bring in Johnny Corcoran ”
Cocorain died a few years ago. Maybe he is not dead - just hiding like .....
17
Nov 04, 2009 at 09:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Justice in the US is simple. I can break the law to entrap you to break the law. Then I charge you for breaking the law.
What's the difference between the two lawbreakers? One wears a badge and one does not. One gets a feather in his cap and one has his life ruined.
What a mockery of the word 'justice'. ”
Very well said! And this applies to all aspacts of law and race
18
Nov 04, 2009 at 09:12 PM Anonymous Says:
If he showed legal id papers why would Rubashkin be doing something illegal by hiring him?
19
Nov 04, 2009 at 08:42 PM Good News Says:
It is good news> when they say that he was out to hire illegals and the evidence shows that people who had obvious fraudulent documents cold not be hired. I think is good news.
20
Nov 04, 2009 at 08:27 PM Aharon Says:
I wonder if the halachic pronouncements here are as authoritative as the legal ones.
21
Nov 04, 2009 at 09:38 PM Anonymous Says:
“ If he showed legal id papers why would Rubashkin be doing something illegal by hiring him? ”
No one is saying he did do anything illegal with that particular job applicant.
22
Nov 04, 2009 at 09:41 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:
“ It is good news> when they say that he was out to hire illegals and the evidence shows that people who had obvious fraudulent documents cold not be hired. I think is good news. ”
I would like this poster to answer the following. The guy came in and applied and was turned down. Then he came back again and was turned down. Again. Then he came back a THIRD time and with what would now be the third set of papers - only a month after his first interview, he's hired.
If it were my business, I'd tell the guy the third time, I don't care if you come back with a letter from Obama and a certificate from the United Nations, you will never be hired here. How in the world could he have possibly in so short period of time, obtaiined the requisite documents to comply with the I9 requirements?
The fact that he was hired AT ALL is a joke.
23
Nov 05, 2009 at 12:06 AM Anonymous Says:
“ for a minute i was thinking it was good news,
But why hire a guy who comes in for a job with 3 different identities ”
That is an excellent question someone should be asking Elizabeth Billmeyer who perhaps set up SMR because SHE herself did not want to take the fall for hiring ALL the illegals which was her job as HR manager. And when she realized HER "mistake" and that SHE was about to get caught in her own inefficiency she started setting herself up as the innocent bystander "I informed SMR that the IRS sent reports that the SS# didn't match up"
SHE probably felt like a hero both for the company and the workers, like Mother Teresa, when she was hiring these workers who were downtrodden and needed jobs and the company needed inexpensive and abundant labor. She probably ran her office like the Queen Bee who could accomplish all for everyone, until........ and then it can't possibly be HER fault.....pass the buck after all its not HER company.
We all know many workers like this, and with big companies such as this with a thousand workers the owner rarely hirers the workers and rarely even knows them. There is always an HR office or a personnel office that handles the details between the division supervisors and the accountant/comptroller vis a vis budget and tax legalities.
24
Nov 04, 2009 at 11:24 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Justice in the US is simple. I can break the law to entrap you to break the law. Then I charge you for breaking the law.
What's the difference between the two lawbreakers? One wears a badge and one does not. One gets a feather in his cap and one has his life ruined.
What a mockery of the word 'justice'. ”
right, and you think that Germany 1933 was worse, and it can never happen here...
25
Nov 05, 2009 at 07:45 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I would like this poster to answer the following. The guy came in and applied and was turned down. Then he came back again and was turned down. Again. Then he came back a THIRD time and with what would now be the third set of papers - only a month after his first interview, he's hired.
If it were my business, I'd tell the guy the third time, I don't care if you come back with a letter from Obama and a certificate from the United Nations, you will never be hired here. How in the world could he have possibly in so short period of time, obtaiined the requisite documents to comply with the I9 requirements?
The fact that he was hired AT ALL is a joke. ”
Because the next step (for a regular employee) would be a racial discrimination suit if those last papers were 100% correct.
26
Nov 05, 2009 at 12:21 AM Anonymous Says:
A federal affidavit made public the day of the raid identifies a similar informant, “Source #7,” who sought employment at the plant on the same dates mentioned by Fischels.
“Source #7” reportedly told investigators that one of the plant supervisors, a Hasidic Jew, duct-taped the eyes of an employee believed to be Guatemalan. The floor supervisor then allegedly struck the worker with a meat hook. The accusation has never been confirmed.
“Source #7” reportedly fed information to authorities about illegal hiring practices at the plant while hanging cattle for $7.25 an hour, according to the sworn statement.
Please note : "The accusation has never been confirmed." I guess they couldn't pay or bargain enough with anyone to get them to say this. I guess this is the line they drew in the sand and refused to cross, this is the one thing they refused to "confirm". Isn't that interesting and I am sure the prosecution was upset that they couldn't get this lie confirmed.
27
Nov 05, 2009 at 09:17 AM OMG Says:
“ wow some good news coming in.hope this is a major victory for them ”
Good News; what is so good? The defense puts on the stand an agent who testified that an undercover agent with fraudulent paperwork tried to get a job and was twice turned away and finally he was hired with legal papers, this trial is not about illegal’s working in the plant it is about financial fraud, we know from the opening statement that the defense argues that SMR did not know anything about the fraud, and he didn’t even understand how to run a business, he is a Rabbi, but, nobody from the defense testified directly who was responsible for the fraudulent invoices and what was the fraudster motive, and during summations the prosecutor will argue how could is it possible that SMR didn’t know that the $3.5M the bank advanced Agri was an outright fraud when Agri never had the extra product to sell, $3.5M is not a few boxes of chicken or a few heads of cattle, it is a lot of product, that Agri would have to buy, kill, clean, pack and ship, all in the last six months, from May 12 2008 the date of the raid, and October 30 2008 the day SMR was arrested, in these five and a half months SMR claimed $3.5M of sales which the bank loaned him against these fraudulent receivables.
28
Nov 05, 2009 at 09:16 AM OMG Says:
“ A federal affidavit made public the day of the raid identifies a similar informant, “Source #7,” who sought employment at the plant on the same dates mentioned by Fischels.
“Source #7” reportedly told investigators that one of the plant supervisors, a Hasidic Jew, duct-taped the eyes of an employee believed to be Guatemalan. The floor supervisor then allegedly struck the worker with a meat hook. The accusation has never been confirmed.
“Source #7” reportedly fed information to authorities about illegal hiring practices at the plant while hanging cattle for $7.25 an hour, according to the sworn statement.
Please note : "The accusation has never been confirmed." I guess they couldn't pay or bargain enough with anyone to get them to say this. I guess this is the line they drew in the sand and refused to cross, this is the one thing they refused to "confirm". Isn't that interesting and I am sure the prosecution was upset that they couldn't get this lie confirmed.
”
Because, this trail is not directly related to the illegal’s employment statues with Agri, in this trial it is only a periphery issue
29
Nov 05, 2009 at 09:06 AM emes Says:
If we are really as we say"achainu kol Bnai Yisroel" (all Jews are brothers), we would leave the comforts of our homes be it Five Towns, Williamsburg, Boro Park, Monswy,Monroe, Queens, Kew Gardens and other areas of such Jewish population components and stand in front of the court house of the Rubashkin trial and show support of the Rubashkins. Even if proved not guilty, they have been shamed, robbed and embarrassed by too many. Yes, they are strong people but look at the money they have lost or forced to give up. No, they are not fancy people. They are normal people who used money was for such as helping other Yidden pay tuition, food bills and other daily necessities to live normal lives.
People who feel different are just "imfarginers"(can't take it when they see something good happening to another person-or maybe jealous)!
30
Nov 04, 2009 at 10:45 PM OMG Says:
Good News; what is so good? The defense puts on the stand an agent who testified that an undercover agent with fraudulent paperwork tried to get a job and was twice turned away and finally he was hired with legal papers, this trial is not about illegal’s working in the plant it is about financial fraud, we know from the opening statement that the defense argues that SMR did not know anything about the fraud, and he didn’t even understand how to run a business, he is a Rabbi, but, nobody from the defense testified directly who was responsible for the fraudulent invoices and what was the fraudster motive, and during summations the prosecutor will argue how could is it possible that SMR didn’t know that the $3.5M the bank advanced Agri was an outright fraud when Agri never had the extra product to sell, $3.5M is not a few boxes of chicken or a few heads of cattle, it is a lot of product, that Agri would have to buy, kill, clean, pack and ship, all in the last six months, from May 12 2008 the date of the raid, and October 30 2008 the day SMR was arrested, in these five and a half months SMR claimed $3.5M of sales which the bank loaned him against these fraudulent receivables.
31
Nov 04, 2009 at 09:29 PM OMG Says:
Good News; what is so good? the defense puts on the stand an agent who testified that an undercover agent with fraudulent paperwork tried to get a job and was twice turned away before he was finally hired with legal papers, this trial is not about illegal’s working in the plant this is about financial fraud, and if this is what the defense is putting up then they might as well go home, we know from the opening statement that the defense will argue that SMR did not know anything about the fraud, as a matter of fact he didn’t even understand how to run a business, he is a Rabbi, up until now, nobody from the defense testified directly who was responsible for the fraudulent invoices and what was the fraudster motive, and mark my words during summations the prosecutor will make argue how could it be possible that SMR didn’t know that the $3.5M that the bank advanced Agriprocessor was an outright fraud when Agriprocessor never had the extra product to sell, $3.5M is not a few boxes of chicken or a few heads of cattle, it is a hell of lot of product, that Agriprocessor would have to buy, kill, clean, pack and ship, all in less than six months, from May 12 2008 the date of the raid, an
32
Nov 04, 2009 at 08:25 PM Meatloaf Says:
The charges against SMR in this trial are "bank, mail and wire fraud, money laundering and ignoring an order to pay livestock providers in the time required by law."
This witness was called by the defense, not the prosecution and his testimony has nothing to do with the charges. Therefore, we should realize this is an attempt by the defense team to muddy the waters by mixing the fraud charges with the undocumented worker charges (trial to follow this one), and thus have a basis for asking for a mistrial on all charges.
33
Nov 04, 2009 at 08:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ its time for a dream team....bring in Johnny Corcoran ”
You might be referring to Cochran. He was, despite the famous case he won, a mentsh while he was alive.
34
Nov 04, 2009 at 08:03 PM You mean a dead team? Says:
Johnny cochran died 4 years ago. Sorry. But i get your point his defense is lousy. Honestly i don't think its the lawyer. They have no case period he's so guilty its ridiculous. The problem is that his lawyer screwed up earlier. When they offered a plea deal he should have been able to negotiate a shorter sentence so he can plead guilty and only have to sit a few years. So tragic. Whats his name i think its time i davened for him.
35
Nov 05, 2009 at 10:07 AM Shaul in Monsey Says:
“ The charges against SMR in this trial are "bank, mail and wire fraud, money laundering and ignoring an order to pay livestock providers in the time required by law."
This witness was called by the defense, not the prosecution and his testimony has nothing to do with the charges. Therefore, we should realize this is an attempt by the defense team to muddy the waters by mixing the fraud charges with the undocumented worker charges (trial to follow this one), and thus have a basis for asking for a mistrial on all charges. ”
UM, okayyy, the defense can't move for a mistrial based on testimony allowed by a witness they called.
36
Nov 05, 2009 at 09:58 AM Shaul in Monsey Says:
“ Because the next step (for a regular employee) would be a racial discrimination suit if those last papers were 100% correct. ”
You are not correct. The basis for denial would be the previous two attempts. There was no reason to believe that the third set was legitimate after the guy demonstrated TWICE that he would present false papers to gain employment. The OPPOSITE is true. The Rubashkins were looking for papers that would pass inspection regardless of their true validity.
This is exactly what I said it was a year ago. The Boro Park shtick that you can pull in a big city failed miserably in middle America. And by Boro Park shtick I mean crimes that many yidden unfortunately think are "ok." You are probably one of those morons who think that because most yentas have illegal cleaning ladies in their homes and get away with it, that a high profile business THAT WOULD BE UNDER SCRUTINY BY THE GOVT in the BEST of circumstances can do the same. It's stupid and small minded thinking like that which brought us here in the first place. OBVIOUSLY the policy at AGRI was made by Rubashkin and that policy was if they have docs hire them whether the docs are legit or not. And legit doesn't mean they are valid, legit means if you can create plausible deniability you can get away with it.
37
Nov 04, 2009 at 06:01 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:
He came the first time and they told him to take a walk. PERFECT. GREAT NEWS. Then a month later, on his THIRD try, they HIRE HIM. ARE YOU JOKING? Any NORMAL person running a business would have said to him, look, Paco, I don't care if you come here with a letter from Obama and a Purple Heart, you are not getting hired here. Who in their right mind would give a guy a second look if his papers were fake the first time? Answer: A company with a criminally low threshold for hiring illegals.
Any company with a legitimate policy in place would NEVER have hired the guy after the first try.
38
Nov 04, 2009 at 05:53 PM OMG Says:
“ wow some good news coming in.hope this is a major victory for them ”
Good News? What is so good the defense put on stand an agent who testified that an undercover agent with fraudulent paperwork tried to get a job and was twice turned away before he was hired with legal papers, this trial is not about illegal’s working in the plant this is about financial fraud, and if this is what the defense is putting up then they might as well go home, we know from the opening statement that the defense will argue that SMR did not know anything about the fraud, as a matter of fact he didn’t even understand how to run a business, he is a Rabbi, up till now, nobody from the defense testified directly who was responsible for the fraudulent invoices and what was the fraudster motive, and the loudest argument the prosecutor will make during summations how is it possible that SMR didn’t know that the 3.5M that the bank advanced Agriprocessor was an outright fraud when they never actually had the extra product to sell. $3.5M is not a few boxes of chicken or a few heads of cattle, it is a hell of lot of product, that Agriprocessor would have to buy, kill, clean, pack and ship, all in a less than six months, from May 12 2008 the date of the raid, and October 30 2008 the day SMR was arrested, in these five and a half months SMR claimed $3.5M of sales which the bank land him against the receivables.
39
Nov 04, 2009 at 05:50 PM AuthenticSatmar Says:
The plea deal offered Rubashkin was 12/15 years - far more than Keriks 2 years.
If they offered him 2 years with time off for time served I'm sure he would take it. Not so much as to admit guilt but to move on with his life.
What we've seen lately with the FBI is that without informers there is no evidence f any crimes being admitted other than those involving the informer.
On that basis, they can stop you on a corner and ask you for change of a dollar and then arrest you for operating without a bank license and then offer you a deal of 2 years vs the 15 your facing and then claim they are doing a great job.
Until a congressman is not entrapped this way, there won't be changes to the laws allowing that kind of "investigation".
40
Nov 05, 2009 at 10:40 AM Everybody has an opinion Says:
“ so if this does not prove attempted entrapment, what will? ”
I guess actual attempted entrapment will, rather than your ignorant, non-legal opinion.
41
Nov 05, 2009 at 10:38 AM Anonymous Says:
The FBI set up "Abdul Enterprises, Ltd." in 1978. FBI employees posed as Middle Eastern businessmen in videotaped talks with government officials, where they offered money in return for political favors to a non-existent sheikh. A house (4407 W St. NW, Washington, D.C.), along with a yacht in Florida and hotel rooms in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, were used to set up meetings between various public officials and a mysterious Arab sheikh named "Kambir Abdul Rahman" who wanted:
To purchase asylum in the U.S.
To involve them in an investment scheme
To get help in getting his money out of his country
Much of the operation was directed by Melvin Weinberg, a convicted con artist, who was hired by the FBI for that purpose. It was the first major operation by the FBI to trap corrupt public officials; up until 1970 only ten members of Congress had ever been convicted of accepting bribes.
On February 2, 1980, NBC Nightly News became the first media outlet to break the story that FBI personnel were targeting members of Congress in a sting operation. The FBI had codenamed the operation "Abscam", a contraction of "Abdul scam", after the name of the company.
42
Nov 05, 2009 at 10:45 AM I mean, seriously? Says:
“ Looks like even when they can't get you, i.e. you play by the rules everybody claims all of us need to do in order not to have trouble with the law, and rightfully so, they can still "get you". What a sad democracy we live in! ”
Yes, they can "get" you when you are charged with 91 counts of bank and wire fraud and other charges.
If he is innocent, WHAT CAN THEY CONVICT HIM OF?
wah-wah-wah-wah, all the crybabies defend what they know nothing about.
What sad democracy we live in! People criticize based on nothing!
You should move! That will at least makew you happier, and make this "sad democracy" at least just a little bit better.
43
Nov 05, 2009 at 10:54 AM Armchair Lawyer Says:
“ Justice in the US is simple. I can break the law to entrap you to break the law. Then I charge you for breaking the law.
What's the difference between the two lawbreakers? One wears a badge and one does not. One gets a feather in his cap and one has his life ruined.
What a mockery of the word 'justice'. ”
If you break the law to entrap me, I go free!
Justice in the US is NOT simple. You are.
Read a book or ask a lawyer before you shoot off your mouth. Not everything is a pogrom. sometimes people are actually guilty of what they are charged with.
That might even be the case here, YOU DON'T KNOW! You just talk, and talk, and talk, like all the other crybabies!
Why don't you do something unusual here, and make a comment that is not uneducated and simple-minded? talk about something you actually have some knowledge of?
It would be a refreshing change! I mean, seriously!
44
Nov 05, 2009 at 10:59 AM Everybody has an opinion Says:
“ You might be referring to Cochran. He was, despite the famous case he won, a mentsh while he was alive. ”
A mentsch? "If the glove fits, you must acquit" mentsch?
Please, vacation time is over, go back to your home planet. You obviously have no idea how things work on this planet.
45
Nov 05, 2009 at 10:49 AM Everybody has an opinion Says:
“ So? all yiden bashers come on!!!! ”
Yes, because if I don't cry "POGROM" withoput knowing more than what is published here, my "frum" status will be revoked.
Come on, yiden bashers, don't worry that these crybabies defend this case by saying he gives tzdaka and knows politicians and therefore can't be guilty!
DON'T make them show anything to prove his innocence! Isn't it enough that he's a Yid and therefore above the law? Aren't the 91 counts of fraud against him all made up?
Oy, Rachmonoh Litzlan, you Yidden Bashers just won't rest until you see some exculpatory evidence, will you?
What a bunch of idiots and ignorant crybabies!
46
Nov 05, 2009 at 12:20 PM formally Says:
“ right, and you think that Germany 1933 was worse, and it can never happen here... ”
you guys are blind. The excuse people will make to vindicate a yid is amazing. If you think he is innocent tell us why. And to think you want to compare this to Germany is prove that many yiddin need to learn history or watch movies and see dead and emaciated people and people being shoot into pits.
SMR was not accused of any crime regarding the 007 agent, so no entrapment can be claimed. Once he was in he saw the other infractions and that is what he is reporting on.
Give it up, with you stupid entrapment. If you want such a wide view of entrapment, the police would never ever be able to arrest any mafia guy, drug dealers and many other crimes
What do you think, every time something happens to a yid you scream nazi. Shame on you for trivializing the suffering all the people who died during that time
47
Nov 05, 2009 at 12:31 PM formally Says:
“ The plea deal offered Rubashkin was 12/15 years - far more than Keriks 2 years.
If they offered him 2 years with time off for time served I'm sure he would take it. Not so much as to admit guilt but to move on with his life.
What we've seen lately with the FBI is that without informers there is no evidence f any crimes being admitted other than those involving the informer.
On that basis, they can stop you on a corner and ask you for change of a dollar and then arrest you for operating without a bank license and then offer you a deal of 2 years vs the 15 your facing and then claim they are doing a great job.
Until a congressman is not entrapped this way, there won't be changes to the laws allowing that kind of "investigation". ”
changing a dollar is not a crime so not problem
and there is always a matter of degree,
would you say a person who stole a candy bar in a store is on the same level as if the guy who stile a million dollars.
To some new comers, there is a sickness out there that blinds people to realty, and makes them say stupid and moronic things that a 2 year old will know it is nonsense. It is induced whenever a yid is accused of any wrong doing. No know cure or vaccine exits
48
Nov 05, 2009 at 02:53 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I would like this poster to answer the following. The guy came in and applied and was turned down. Then he came back again and was turned down. Again. Then he came back a THIRD time and with what would now be the third set of papers - only a month after his first interview, he's hired.
If it were my business, I'd tell the guy the third time, I don't care if you come back with a letter from Obama and a certificate from the United Nations, you will never be hired here. How in the world could he have possibly in so short period of time, obtaiined the requisite documents to comply with the I9 requirements?
The fact that he was hired AT ALL is a joke. ”
you know how many ppl apply for a job at one time how can you remember who came and didn't?
49
Nov 05, 2009 at 07:03 PM Steven Says:
“ You are not correct. The basis for denial would be the previous two attempts. There was no reason to believe that the third set was legitimate after the guy demonstrated TWICE that he would present false papers to gain employment. The OPPOSITE is true. The Rubashkins were looking for papers that would pass inspection regardless of their true validity.
This is exactly what I said it was a year ago. The Boro Park shtick that you can pull in a big city failed miserably in middle America. And by Boro Park shtick I mean crimes that many yidden unfortunately think are "ok." You are probably one of those morons who think that because most yentas have illegal cleaning ladies in their homes and get away with it, that a high profile business THAT WOULD BE UNDER SCRUTINY BY THE GOVT in the BEST of circumstances can do the same. It's stupid and small minded thinking like that which brought us here in the first place. OBVIOUSLY the policy at AGRI was made by Rubashkin and that policy was if they have docs hire them whether the docs are legit or not. And legit doesn't mean they are valid, legit means if you can create plausible deniability you can get away with it. ”
Considering the length of time between each of these attempts by the 'source' to get hired, as well as the obvious lack of sophistication in the Agri organization, it is absurd to assume that they should have remembered every job applicant. Do you think they only had one or two jobseekers a month come by?!!
Talkin about 'dan lekaf zechut' for a fellow Jew. God will surely judge you, 'Shaul in Monsey', with exactly the same diligence you exhibit when judging SMR.