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Washington - U.S. House of Representatives Passes Democratic Health Care Reform Bill |
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The 220-215 vote cleared the way for the Senate to begin debate on the issue that has come to overshadow all others in Congress.
A triumphant Speaker Nancy Pelosi likened the legislation to the passage of Social Security in 1935 and Medicare 30 years later.
"It provides coverage for 96 percent of Americans. It offers everyone, regardless of health or income, the peace of mind that comes from knowing they will have access to affordable health care when they need it," said Rep. John Dingell, the 83-year-old Michigan lawmaker who has introduced national health insurance in every Congress since succeeding his father in 1955.
Ironically, that only solidified support for the legislation, clearing the way for conservative Democrats to vote for it.
The legislation would require most Americans to carry insurance and provide federal subsidies to those who otherwise could not afford it. Large companies would have to offer coverage to their employees. Both consumers and companies would be slapped with penalties if they defied the government’s mandates.
Insurance industry practices such as denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions would be banned, and insurers would no longer be able to charge higher premiums on the basis of gender or medical history. In a further slap, the industry would lose its exemption from federal antitrust restrictions on price gouging, bid rigging and market allocation.
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Read Comments (119) — Post Yours »
1
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:37 PM elrushbo Says:
I don't think all u people , realize the ramifications of this vote. free abortions, much higher taxes and the country will be a socialist country .
2
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:35 PM Anonymous Says:
Thank god the bill is now further along towards final passage. We all davened extra hard today that the House would pass the bill. There are so many poor yidden who desparately need the help this bill will provide.
3
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:35 PM Anonymous Says:
The churban of USA has begun in a couple of years from now we won't recognize the USA
4
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:30 PM Anonymous Says:
Well this is the beginning of the end if this really will happen!
5
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:49 PM Great Says:
I can finally make more money, and still get free insurance!!!.
6
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:54 PM ITS NOT FREE - WAKE UP!! Says:
“ I can finally make more money, and still get free insurance!!!. ”
except that now your taxes will go up to pay for this. your taxes will go up and your boss' taxes will go up which means your boss wont be able to afford you anymore. oh, I should also point out the VAT Tax of AT LEAST 15% that will be tacked on to EVERYTHING you buy - over and above the sales tax.
7
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:47 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Well this is the beginning of the end if this really will happen! ”
Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others??
8
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:47 PM Anonymous Says:
no need for chesed insurance organizations any longer
9
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:45 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Thank god the bill is now further along towards final passage. We all davened extra hard today that the House would pass the bill. There are so many poor yidden who desparately need the help this bill will provide. ”
if thats the case i am very sorry that you are a yid! you have no idea what you davened for! we are now a socialist country. i hope you are happy when they start rationing everything under the claim of health.
there was no such thing as people not getting treated. you fell for the obama bull!
10
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:43 PM Anonymous Says:
isnt this great for the insurance brokers now that everyone will have to have insurance
maybe its a great field to go into now?
11
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:43 PM Fed up! Says:
The reason inzer mentshin are for the bill is because they are so far zich its utterly disgusting! They fail to see the entire picture as long as they "gain" from it they are ok. People are too foolish to realize that EVERYONE will be paying for this stupidity with higher taxes. Dont let the Obamanation tell you there wont bee higher taxes or its only the (former) rich that will pay because that 1000% BULL! There will be a VAT tax to pay for this which means EVERYONE pays a tax on EVERYTHING you buy from now on!
You are all a bunch of morons for supporting this!
12
Nov 07, 2009 at 11:39 PM United States Of America (1776-2009) Says:
America lost its freedom as this is the way for the Socialist to take everything away from us under the guise of health.
What has the govt EVER run well? The post office? Social Security which is just about bankrupt? Medicare which is bakrupt?
We are now not any better than any socialist country in the EU. For this we fought the Brits?!!??!
13
Nov 08, 2009 at 07:47 AM anonymous Says:
“ America lost its freedom as this is the way for the Socialist to take everything away from us under the guise of health.
What has the govt EVER run well? The post office? Social Security which is just about bankrupt? Medicare which is bakrupt?
We are now not any better than any socialist country in the EU. For this we fought the Brits?!!??! ”
you did not fight the "brits" and probbly never held a rifle in your hand. Social Security is not bankrupt except the coffers have been emptied to cover a higher deficit from the military spending. The AMA came out for it which to me is not a socialist organization .
14
Nov 08, 2009 at 07:39 AM DB Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
#7 YES IT HAS! None of these countrys have been successful with their health care "reform". You left out the UK, who in addition to the others, have bankrupt thier countries. This is not a good thing that happened.
15
Nov 08, 2009 at 07:21 AM Anonymous Says:
You davened for evil. This bill provides for unregulated abortion and euthanasia. What do you think "end of life counseling" really means?
They openly said that meds would be rationed and logically that extends to certain therapies also. What will you do when they, G-d forbid, won't care for your premature infant because his chances aren't as good as another's?
Israel does not have socialized medicine. Private care is available to anyone who chooses to pay for it. The same goes for Canada and Great Britain.
16
Nov 08, 2009 at 07:21 AM anonymous Says:
“ except that now your taxes will go up to pay for this. your taxes will go up and your boss' taxes will go up which means your boss wont be able to afford you anymore. oh, I should also point out the VAT Tax of AT LEAST 15% that will be tacked on to EVERYTHING you buy - over and above the sales tax.
”
VAT has not been passed and for this reason only applies to Israel, abortion is not included and the AMA is not a socialistic organization therefore what you read is disinformation
17
Nov 08, 2009 at 07:14 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
Why is it that so many Canadians run (not walk) to the USA when they have major health issues? Canadian coverage, at least in Ontario and Quebec, is no bargain.
18
Nov 08, 2009 at 07:13 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
No, but the healthcare in those countries stink, and they come here if they need real treatment. In Israel, many people have private insurance so they don't have to go to chupat cholim doctors and clinics. What will you do when your child needs to see a specialist and is told by some pencil pusher that it isn't necessary? Don't think it could happen? Ask anyone in Canada.
19
Nov 08, 2009 at 08:20 AM new continent Says:
Columbous, kindly find us a new continent and a we will relocate the previously known free country to a new location.
Our country has been hijacked by muslims and socialist, by the time obama completes his 12terms in office he will have a chapter in the kids history book showing how bad a free country was for the americans and how good it is now under communisim.
20
Nov 08, 2009 at 08:16 AM unsure Says:
I'm not sure this is a bad thing yet . they took the aborrtion thing out . yes the govt will have more contrl, but everyone will be insured we will never have to collect for any medical bills. preexistiing conditions no prob . and the rich will be paying for it. not sure what's wrong with this can anyone give 5 reasons its no good. yes I know the talk show spin that we will be stalinist/socilaist but it doesn't sound like it . life in england and israel aint too bad.
21
Nov 08, 2009 at 06:29 AM Anonymous Says:
we must fight to defeat everyone who voted for this bill!
22
Nov 08, 2009 at 05:54 AM Elchonon Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
To continue:
I am astounded at the pre op questions they ask these days but frankly I understand. #1 patients have no idea what in the world they are getting done, #2 the hospitals dont want the liability.
You are responsible to research, too many yetes babbling these days.. first its the danger of immunization and next they will tell us that the MRI radiation causes cancer or some meshugas like that..
So we have clueless yutzes who heard from some yente that they NEED mamash pikuach nefesh they will die if they dont get a CAT scan, MRI (with and without contrast ?) a battery of XRAY exams.. maybe some ultra sounds, EMG tests and v'hamavin yavin..
Somehow people overlook the mitzvah of "ushmartem" this one knows shas and the other knows the batting average of every yankee since 1926.. but their blood type ? medical history ? allergy's ? ver veist.. no one knows..
And I will sign off with this (if you know me, you'll understand the pun)
USPS express is roughly 25$ for 1 pound while UPS overnight can run you 40$.. if you needed a heart transplant and had to have it shipped accross the country.. would you select the USPS option thats cheaper but not guaranteed ?
23
Nov 08, 2009 at 05:47 AM Anonymous Says:
As an Australian who has BOTH private and public health coverage options, can someone explain to me why universal coverage is so detrimental to the US? As far as I can see, when it comes to life expectancy and other such measures to measure the state of health care in a country the US is NOT even in the top 10. So called “socialist” countries like Australia, France, Canada and Israel all are in the top 10 countries by life expectancy. Where is the US? Way down at # 34 according to CIA World Factbook (2009)
Over here in Australia if you have a pre existing medical condition which makes it difficult to buy private insurance you are not left to die. No one is left on the streets.
All I can say is thank G-d I live in a “socialist” country. I’ll take “socialist” Australia any day than the horrendous poverty (beggars on every corner) and filth I have to put up with when I am in NY.
24
Nov 08, 2009 at 05:44 AM Elchonon Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
Yes it has... I know the medical system and eonomics.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091103-712093.html and any other business article on TEVA will show you that their major sales are in the USA..
They cannot afford to research and develop drugs without a paying market!
All the good doctors will go into private practice.. want surgery ? fork over 15k for a good surgeon.. the rest will either be bad surgeon's or have a 3 year waiting list.
I know the greatest surgeon's in the USA, and having been operated on 16 times (
last was 3 weeks ago) let me tell you, its all garbage.
I have both medicaid and united health care.. with medicaid I couldent get surgery out of state at the surgeon's I wanted, with insurance I was left with 15k to pay.. but my surgeon's who being mentchen and knowing that I am a mentch said "no problem, we will take what the insurance will give us"
The issue is, that there are too many filthy drek people who when something goes run.. they scream "who can we sue ?!?"
The responsibility rests FIRST AND FOREMOST on your case, if you cannot name the procedure you are getting and the location of it.. then your in for trouble.
25
Nov 08, 2009 at 05:17 AM PMO Says:
“ America lost its freedom as this is the way for the Socialist to take everything away from us under the guise of health.
What has the govt EVER run well? The post office? Social Security which is just about bankrupt? Medicare which is bakrupt?
We are now not any better than any socialist country in the EU. For this we fought the Brits?!!??! ”
I don't understand. Could you explain how this kind of health plan makes us "socialist"? And, if possible could you explain how having Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Welfare, Food Stamps, and Section 8 were not socialist?
You phonies who get your news from Limbaugh or Beck have no idea what you are talking about. The only "socialist" portion of this bill is the public option. If you think that passing this bill makes us a "socialist" country you are deluded by your messiah who speaks to you through your AM radio.
We have been a partially socialist country for nearly a century. This is no MORE of a socialist program than Medicare.
Now, if you are like me, you are against ALL of these programs and wish they would abolish everything from welfare, to social security, to section 8, to food stamps (except for those who are physically incapable of making a living). However, since most of the "phony" conservatives would never be against Medicare or social security (proving how phony they are). It just shows that the only reason they are against this bill is because the only thing that can match their admiration and worship of Limbaugh... is their hatred of Obama.
26
Nov 08, 2009 at 03:47 AM PulpitRabbi Says:
Actually, the bill as described in this article seems like a very reasonable compromise between socialized medicine of, say, the UK and Canada, and the man-eats-dog current system of the USA. It maintains a level of competition, keeping government meddling below what it is in some other countries, but still cares for the weaker links in society. You know, it isn't difficult to show that halakhically we'd be required to guarantee this for one another (ok, well, for that argument we must momentarily ignore the dichotomy yehudi-nokhri, but since the overlarge majority are nokhrim "asking" about nokhrim, that is a reasonable position), hence that reflects our values.
One thing that needs to be highlighted now, is that if indeed this system will push down the income of doctors, then society needs to push down their cost, as well, through (a) tort reform, and (b) education reform, which will make medical studies cheaper, as the current system is predicated on the idea that doctors, by gouging out their patients(' health insurance) will be able to recoup their expenses.
27
Nov 08, 2009 at 03:32 AM Shmilfke Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
It only hasn't been the end of these countries because the US was still a free country.
I just looked it up - the US is one of the top three trading partners with each of the countries you mentioned. If the world were socialist, we would probably not be on this website typing comments right now.
There's a reason the US is the largest economy.
28
Nov 08, 2009 at 02:19 AM AuthenticSatmar Says:
The income tax bracket in the UK is near 80% and people wait forever for serious operations.
This plan will provide coverage for 96% only? How do they figure that, and why not make it 100%.
This is BS and will seriously hurt this country.
29
Nov 08, 2009 at 02:17 AM IniquiTrance Says:
This is a great day for this nation. Finally a president who actually isn't afraid to live up to campaign promises, and swim against the tide.
Why anyone is against this is beyond me. Ignorance? Denial? Stockholm Syndrome?!!!
I think some people are just too lazy to do the math, and would prefer to regurgitate talk-radio soundbytes, believing themselves patriots.
Get this, as much as you'd like to believe in laissez-faire capitalism, presuming you understand it, it doesn't exist in America. We already have "socialist" institutions, (the Fed for example, and all those annoying labour rights laws), since people who actually CARE ABOUT SOCIETY, rather than their own selfish ends already made it abundantly clear that the purely free market undermines human rights, and democracy!!! Market forces need to be checked and overseen by moral ones.
The irony is, most of the frummeh conservatives I encounter on a daily basis are the ones getting hurt most by the status quo, and would only benefit from a subsidized government health plan. The insurance companies LOVE your naive "patriotism".
30
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:42 AM Milhouse Says:
The mandate is unconstitutional. Nowhere in the constitution is Congress given the authority to FORCE people to buy insurance.
31
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:37 AM dave Says:
most of the yidden are against this bill . the nazis took over the health care system also .so this is what dictators do so then u have no rights left. we should try to vote out rep.weiner bec he was one of the bigget supporters for this .
32
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:32 AM Anonymous Says:
This bill will insure long waits for doctors, as well as the govrnment deciding if you should get any care. See why canadians and other countries with this type of care come here. Did you note the taxes attached to the bill.?With 2000 pages we do not know what else it will cost us except to put the country into greater debt.
33
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:30 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
Last week in the news every was upset that a wall street company got 1000 doses from the h1n1 vaccine. N the had to give it back. This is how we all will b treated now
34
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:29 AM Use Your Head Says:
“ Thank god the bill is now further along towards final passage. We all davened extra hard today that the House would pass the bill. There are so many poor yidden who desparately need the help this bill will provide. ”
Speak for yourself! (Especially if you won't capitalize "God".) I did NOT daven for this bill to pass. Yes, there are so many poor yidden (as well as non-Jews, if that matters to you) who desperately need this help. There are also millions upon millions of hard-working taxpayers who are just barely getting by and will now be further taxed in order to pay for this spending frenzy.
35
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:28 AM finally Says:
We pay so much taxes annually and don't have any medical coverage, finally my husband and me will have coverage, I wonder what plans and premiums will be available for us..???
36
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:21 AM yoelie Says:
I was injured in canada,the Dr.asked me for $600 in the ER can u believe this?,after I came home I needed a receipt or any proof that I should be able to get reimbursed from my american insurance company cuz they cover me in CA too,I even was able to speak on the phone with that Dr. and she lied and said I never took cash from you,soo.. Welcome to the new U.S.A., doctors are gonna be hungry for cash and they will do the same here,and we will have sheester doctors like UK and CA.
37
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:19 AM Anonymous Says:
Its mind boggling how many idiots are buying this picture. You're not saving a dime. You will pay dearly for this. You pack of idiots are still believing in this OBAMA CHANGE business. Please daven a little more ehrlich when it comes to ATOH CHOINEN LEUHDUM DAAS. But before that you have to pass HANOISEYN LASECHVI BINUH. You guys have your heads in the sand if you're thinking you're getting a freebie. Thinl of who is going to pay for this? You will see more job loses, because you're employer can't afford to hire and keep so many employees and pay insurance, you will pay a user tax or fee. Everything you buy will go up in cost to pay for all this. What are you really thinking??? Kiss the good old USA goodby under this new behaima. And all you shmucks voted for him.
38
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:13 AM Anonymous Says:
For all of u sporting this bill cause you will get more.
1)If you r unemployed well where's ur fealing for those working very hard and will need to pay more taxes. And even bussiness owners will there tax rate also go up to pay this bill and he won't be able to rase an emplyee cause the taxes he'll have to pay for u and in general market the prices will go up and
2) If you r working and making to much to affored a health insurace policy don't even think that u urself will not pay more in taxes in order to pay for ur own health insurance. Come on peolpe wake up don't be so stupid that guy is taking us on a big ride and if we don't relize it now u will find urself very very deep.
39
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:13 AM Anonymous Says:
No need to get excited! If it passed the house with a slim minority & many democrats voting against it, then it has no chance of getting through the senate.
But what's really disgusting is how they make the insurance industry practice of pre-existing conditions & history sound like mean ideas. Well, that's what insurance is all about, soon they will force them to sell Life Insurance to people on their deathbeds. It's rediculous, and would mean the end of health insurance, as all people will wait till they are sick before signing up.
So we will all end up with Medicare... But wait the doctors won't be earning enough to justify 10 years of school & residency, so the next generation will all be lawyers, but don't worry, we can get some migrant doctors from Mexico.....
40
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:13 AM SD Says:
Boruch Hashem!
If you get your hashkofos from Torah, rather than Limbaugh, you would know that it is 100% clear that Torah Jews should support an initiative that sees to it that every US citizen (Jew and non-Jew) has access to decent health care.
It is the most important kiyum of the mitzvah of chessed.
Go ahead, call it socialism.
I call it Chessed.
41
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:13 AM Truth Says:
“ I can finally make more money, and still get free insurance!!!. ”
That's what everybody is thinking. That this new law will expand medicare and medicaid for the poor. That everybody will have free insurance paid by our wealthy tax- payers. You and most of this country just fell into the biggest Bait and Switch ever.
They said they were going to do this, but what they did was pass a bill saying everybody has to buy insurance. Even our Gov. is going to start selling Health insurance. But the reason people don't have insurance is because they can't afford it. "Oh, but the gov's insurance will be cheap" -Acc. to the Congressional budget office the gov's insurance premium will be more expensive than private insurance.
N. Pelosi and the libs just made Bernie Madoff look like a kid who did a little shoplifting!
42
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:10 AM Anonymous Says:
The Peloso bill provides a number of new regulations that will be very important to the yiddeshe community. All restaruants will have to start posting the nutritional value of food on the menus. Maybe some of the kosher places will simply not be willing to disclose that one portion of brisket and kishka has enough calories , cholesterol and fat to violate humans rights laws governing physicial abuse. It will punish yiddeshe schools and mosdos who fail to provide health care insurance to all their employees, etc. In short, it will encourage all of the key policies of those who are concerned with tikun olam. Hopefully, the next bill will be the global warming legislation called cap and trade.
43
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:06 AM Anonymous Says:
“ America lost its freedom as this is the way for the Socialist to take everything away from us under the guise of health.
What has the govt EVER run well? The post office? Social Security which is just about bankrupt? Medicare which is bakrupt?
We are now not any better than any socialist country in the EU. For this we fought the Brits?!!??! ”
I don't think that it will pass in senate. Atleast I hope so. Well in house there's more dams then republic.
44
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:56 AM Dave Says:
There is no VAT tax anywhere in this legislation. Why are you claiming there is?
Social Security is not bankrupt. Far from it, it has assets in excess of 1.4 trillion dollars. At some point in the relatively near future (next decade or so) there will be an adjustment as there was in 1983, but even without that, the fund is solvent through 2040 (Social Security Trustees) or 2050 (Congressional Budget Office estimate).
The Post Office? You mean the Post Office which hasn't used any taxpayer funds since the early 1980s, and is the only flat rate delivery service that covers the entire United States? There are parts of the United States only available by brush plane that can still send and receive mail for the same price you'd pay to drop it in the mail in New York.
Oh, one last thing. You wanted to know "why we fought the Brits"? Perhaps you should note that the elected officials of the American citizens passed this. You know, that representation thing. Also, if you think that the 18th century British Empire was socialist, you had best read up on history.
45
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:45 AM Canadian Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
I live in canada, you can wait a year or more for a medical test or an appt. At a doctor, with living in canada so many years and don't even have a general doctor, if you need a one you go running around to a clinic to have a shoe maker check you out!!!! Feel very bad for you guys!!!
46
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:44 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Thank god the bill is now further along towards final passage. We all davened extra hard today that the House would pass the bill. There are so many poor yidden who desparately need the help this bill will provide. ”
no- "we" dont need this. talk for yourself
poor yidden have medicaid and if you think medicaid is not good enough for whatever reason----then your in real trouble because this is in other words "medicaid" for the whole country.
socialism is not a way of life.
rich people deserve better health care because they pay the money for it.
When you pay little or no money for something, the quality of the product is much worse.
if you have the whole country paying nothing for health insurance, then health care quality will go down the drain. Plus compound in illegals who take but don't give (like parasitic leeches) that will just quicken the process of the deterioration.
how could the government tell insurance companies that they cannot refuse customers based on pre existing conditions?? thats retarded
thats like forcing a car insurance company to insure a guy that was in 35 accidents in one year for the same low price as everyone else. Insanity.
just because an article highlights 9 lines of this multithousand page bill, and from those lines you see something that you might like, that doesn't mean its a good bill.
47
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:39 AM PMO Says:
To those who claim we are now a "socialist" country, you haven't the foggiest idea what socialism is. 90% of us will continue to have private health insurance, and our medical services providers (doctors, hospitals, etc) are also private. For those 2 reasons alone, this is not, by definition, socialism.
For those of you who claim to be "against" the healthcare reform bill claiming it is socialism, are you also against Medicaid? Are you also against Medicare? Should we also abolish Social Security? Those 3 programs are FAR more rooted in socialism than the healthcare reform bill. Why have you not been fighting to get rid of these awful programs? Where were your protests for the last 10...20...30... 40 years to ablish these programs?
This outrage around "socialism" is so unbelievably phony it is beyond comprehension. Cries of socialism from radio and tv hosts with no education and no idea as to the definition of the word are just being repeated by the mindless, ignorant fools who worship them.
There are plenty of reasons to be against this plan. I AM against this plan... but for real reasons... not made up ones.
48
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:35 AM Anonymous Says:
wait until next year's elections - this bill will be repealed - and we will take back America from the socialists.
49
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:32 AM OMG Says:
“ America lost its freedom as this is the way for the Socialist to take everything away from us under the guise of health.
What has the govt EVER run well? The post office? Social Security which is just about bankrupt? Medicare which is bakrupt?
We are now not any better than any socialist country in the EU. For this we fought the Brits?!!??! ”
The same idiotic arguments were made at the time the Democratic Party passed Social Security, and again, during the Medicare, and the Civil Rights, so we who know history are celebrating this huge achievement, by no means we finish we sill need the Senate to pass and I hope whoever has some brains will support and write to their Senator, in particular if you reside in the south as I do, New York we are not worried about your vote, we need AR and LA and every Jew should call or write to Joe Lieberman, we need him not to block the final vote.
50
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:30 AM Anonymous Says:
“ if thats the case i am very sorry that you are a yid! you have no idea what you davened for! we are now a socialist country. i hope you are happy when they start rationing everything under the claim of health.
there was no such thing as people not getting treated. you fell for the obama bull! ”
uh hello you sir are mistaken. both about people not getting treated or being able to afford it AND about this so called "socialist" stuff which you know nothing about
51
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:27 AM Anonymous Says:
All that think this is good, the countries that do have socialized medicine reult in more deaths because of the beauracracy in the approval for MRI's and Catscans. You end up dying because the tumors are realized too late. Why do you think the wealthy come here for exams.
Now you have a extra level of red tape on what will and will not be allowed.
This country was founded on simple priniples of freedom. The freedom to choose your plan, the choice of picking your own doctor, the right to buy your own plan, the right to open your own small business and pick what you want to provide your employees with. Not anymore. I don't know if I live in a America or Communism or a Kibbuts. If a company doesn't comply then they will face a 250,000 fine, 5 year imprisonment and a felony. Wow, sounds like communism.
If anyone besides the citizen should decide this then the next level should be individual states and not the federal government, New York already has a restriction on denying medical coverage for preexisting condition.
No public option and no tort reform for physician protection.
We will put this country in such debt that will burden future generations.
A sad day in American history.
52
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:23 AM Anonymous Says:
New shnor campaign will be in all the shuls. Help a family that needs to buy health insurance. Its gonna be a must. And everybody that can't afford it will go shnore
53
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:18 AM Anonymous Says:
Why is it that we hear not a peep out of you right-wingers when the government spends trillions of dollars on Iraq (they just approved another 680 billion dollar defense appropriations bill last week), and yet you get all up in arms when they spend 100 billion a year on health care?
It amazes me how you can drive on publicly finance roads, take publicly subsidized trains, eat publicly subsidized food, frequent public libraries and parks, many of you whether you are willing to admit it or not, collect publicly subsidized welfare in the way of Earned Income Credits, Food Stamps, Medicaid etc, and now you are worried about "socialism"? please give me a break and find another double standard to harp on. you people have no shame.
54
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:18 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
Why don't you read for yourself about your fin example of the Canadian Health system..
September 19, 2007
Nationalized Health Care is Broken
By John Stossel
Last week I pointed out that Michael Moore, maker of the documentary "Sicko," portrayed the Cuban health-care system as though it were utopia -- until I hit him with some inconvenient facts. So he backed off and said, "Let's stick to Canada and Britain because I think these are legitimate arguments that are made against the film and against the so-called idea of socialized medicine. And I think you should challenge me on these things."
OK, here we go.
One basic problem with nationalized health care is that it makes medical services seem free. That pushes demand beyond supply. Governments deal with that by limiting what's available.
That's why the British National Health Service recently made the pathetic promise to reduce wait times for hospital care to four months.
The wait to see dentists is so long that some Brits pull their own teeth. Dental tools: pliers and vodka.
One hospital tried to save money by not changing bed sheets every day. British papers report that instead of washing them, nurses were encouraged to just turn them over.
Government rationing of health care in Canada is why when Karen Jepp was about to give birth to quadruplets last month, she was told that all the neonatal units she could go to in Canada were too crowded. She flew to Montana to have the babies.
"People line up for care; some of them die. That's what happens," Canadian doctor David Gratzer, author of The Cure, told "20/20". Gratzer thought the Canadian system was great until he started treating patients. "The more time I spent in the Canadian system, the more I came across people waiting. ... You want to see your neurologist because of your stress headache? No problem! You just have to wait six months. You want an MRI? No problem! Free as the air! You just gotta wait six months."
Michael Moore retorts that Canadians live longer than Americans.
But Canadians' longer lives are unrelated to heath care. Canadians are less likely to get into accidents or be murdered. Take those factors into account, not to mention obesity, and Americans live longer.
Most Canadians like their free health care, but Canadian doctors tell us the system is cracking. More than a million Canadians cannot find a regular family doctor. One town holds a lottery. Once a week the town clerk gets a box out of the closet. Everyone who wants to have a family doctor puts his or her name in it. The clerk pulls out one slip to determine the winner. Others in town have to wait.
It's driven some Canadians to private for-profit clinics. A new one opens somewhere in Canada almost every week. Although it's not clear that such private clinics are legal, one is run by the president of the Canadian Medical Association, Dr. Brian Day, because under government care, he says, "We found ourselves in a situation where we were seeing sick patients and weren't being allowed to treat them. That was something that we couldn't tolerate."
Canadians stuck on waiting lists often pay "medical travel agents" to get to America for treatment. Shirley Healey had a blocked artery that kept her from digesting food. So she hired a middleman to help her get to a hospital in Washington state.
"The doctor said that I would have only had a very few weeks to live," Healey said.
Yet the Canadian government calls her surgery "elective."
"The only thing elective about this surgery was I elected to live," she said.
Not all Canadian health care is long lines and lack of innovation. We found one place where providers offer easy access to cutting-edge life-saving technology, such as CT scans. And patients rarely wait.
But they have to bark or meow to get access to this technology. Vet clinics say they can get a dog or a cat in the next day. People have to wait a month.
55
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:17 AM Brittish Yid Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
Rabosi, you have no idea what you are in for. NHS - thats what they call govt healthcare in the UK is the worst thing. They get to decide drs, hospitals, treatments, etc., all you are to them is a shtick fleish mit tzvey oygin. You think you are happy but you really shouldnt be. Just wait till they start banning or taxing things for the sake of "health." You will be left with no money to pay for the simplest of necessities.
56
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:14 AM Fed up! Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
how many people do you see running to THOSE counties for healthcare?!! you really need to wake up! this has not worked in other countries and here in the USSA with over 350 million people --- IT WONT WORK EITHER!!
I certainly hope you enjoy paying higher taxes!!
57
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:14 AM Anonymous Says:
Thank God this bill passed.Morons are the ones who are paranoid, I was never so proud of this contry like I'm now.
58
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:13 AM canadian Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
taking Canada as an example if there its Ended the answer is Absolutely YES, my father was diagnosed with Cancer and we got a 2 week delayed schedule for a biopsy unless we gave 25k the under the"""" we would still wait for treatment and the rest is understood
59
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:13 AM You gotta love the libs Says:
A triumphant Speaker Nancy Pelosi likened the legislation to the passage of Social Security in 1935 and Medicare 30 years later.
Uh, excuse me Ms Stretch Pelosi but arent those two programs just about BANKRUPT?!?!!?!!
60
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:12 AM Anonymous Says:
Most of the leading conservative and modern orthodox rabbonim supported the bill as a basic matter of yiddeshe values. The chassideshe and chareidi rabbonim probably don't even get involved in the politics of health care legislation, so its not suprising they haven't really expressed a postion one way or another. They typicall focus only on who will give more public money for their mosdos.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 12:11 AM Loshon Hora Says:
Insurance industry practices such as denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions would be banned, and insurers would no longer be able to charge higher premiums on the basis of gender or medical history.
That will make many drop their insurance even pay $100.00 fine, & if chas veshalom they need insurance they start paying & get covered.
So that means someone who never paid insurance gets terminaly ill they could buy any plan for the same price & gauge the system.
I guess all insurance companies will close shop here, & leave Obama the job of losing money. The sysytem will be bilked by thievesas sixtie minutes reported medicaid has 60 billion a year fraud, seen here on VIN.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 12:09 AM Anonymous Says:
I think this is one of the things that have happen to create the mood and setting for the coming of moshiach.
Its right out of the navi of what the world will be like at the times of moshiach.
Learn a lot of torah and hang on tight. It may be a rough ride, but if your confident on where were going then its not as stressful.
Hatzlacha and emunah to all.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 12:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Thank god the bill is now further along towards final passage. We all davened extra hard today that the House would pass the bill. There are so many poor yidden who desparately need the help this bill will provide. ”
and so many more yiden nebach would have to nebach pay so much more in premiums and nebach so much more on taxes so that these few yiden who don't qualify for medicaid and can't afford insurance should have the same coverage .....
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Nov 08, 2009 at 12:05 AM (Formerly) Land of the Free Says:
“ I can finally make more money, and still get free insurance!!!. ”
This vote is unconstitutional. No where in the constitution does it say that every American must have free medical coverage.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 12:01 AM Welcom to the U.S. Socialist Republics Says:
“ I can finally make more money, and still get free insurance!!!. ”
What a dumb comment...where do you think does the government take the money to pay for your so called free insurance ..from your pocket by raising your taxes
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Nov 07, 2009 at 11:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Well this is the beginning of the end if this really will happen! ”
huh? what are you talking about? now we can have affordable healthcare!
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Nov 07, 2009 at 11:55 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I don't think all u people , realize the ramifications of this vote. free abortions, much higher taxes and the country will be a socialist country . ”
did you even read the bill? you dont know what you are talking about. u dont even know what the word socialist means
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Nov 08, 2009 at 08:57 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Thank god the bill is now further along towards final passage. We all davened extra hard today that the House would pass the bill. There are so many poor yidden who desparately need the help this bill will provide. ”
This plan will only raise the cost of Insurance and lower the benefits that the poor and the afluent receive furthermore ot will raise Taxes and give the Goverment more control of our private lives
69
Nov 08, 2009 at 08:57 AM Truth Says:
“ Boruch Hashem!
If you get your hashkofos from Torah, rather than Limbaugh, you would know that it is 100% clear that Torah Jews should support an initiative that sees to it that every US citizen (Jew and non-Jew) has access to decent health care.
It is the most important kiyum of the mitzvah of chessed.
Go ahead, call it socialism.
I call it Chessed.
”
Wake up from your dream world. This is the biggest con- more than any jew ever did.
Not only will taxes go up -they are not expanding medicare/medicaid, they are just selling insurance which you must buy. This won't make any poor person richer, just the gov. richer. Also, you think the gov. insurance is going to be cheaper -guess again. Acc. to the Congressional buget office the gov.'s health insurance premium will cost more than private insurance.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 08:55 AM Anonymous Says:
“ no- "we" dont need this. talk for yourself
poor yidden have medicaid and if you think medicaid is not good enough for whatever reason----then your in real trouble because this is in other words "medicaid" for the whole country.
socialism is not a way of life.
rich people deserve better health care because they pay the money for it.
When you pay little or no money for something, the quality of the product is much worse.
if you have the whole country paying nothing for health insurance, then health care quality will go down the drain. Plus compound in illegals who take but don't give (like parasitic leeches) that will just quicken the process of the deterioration.
how could the government tell insurance companies that they cannot refuse customers based on pre existing conditions?? thats retarded
thats like forcing a car insurance company to insure a guy that was in 35 accidents in one year for the same low price as everyone else. Insanity.
just because an article highlights 9 lines of this multithousand page bill, and from those lines you see something that you might like, that doesn't mean its a good bill. ”
Maybe rich people also deserve a better defense, better roads, better public parks, better government representation, better schools, and better airports. After all, they pay most of the taxes.
A persons health is not a commodity to be bartered in the name of affordability.
Gd-willing, one day, you shouldn't be born with a child who has a pre-existing condition, and is turned down by insurance companies because they don't think your child is a "smart investment."
It is the cold and callous attitude that you harbor, which is responsible for the selfish, self-absorb, win-at-all-cost, failed county we find ourselves in today.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 08:52 AM Midwestern Guy Says:
“ The mandate is unconstitutional. Nowhere in the constitution is Congress given the authority to FORCE people to buy insurance. ”
Boruch Hashem, we have a Supreme Court that will likely agree with you.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 08:49 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The Peloso bill provides a number of new regulations that will be very important to the yiddeshe community. All restaruants will have to start posting the nutritional value of food on the menus. Maybe some of the kosher places will simply not be willing to disclose that one portion of brisket and kishka has enough calories , cholesterol and fat to violate humans rights laws governing physicial abuse. It will punish yiddeshe schools and mosdos who fail to provide health care insurance to all their employees, etc. In short, it will encourage all of the key policies of those who are concerned with tikun olam. Hopefully, the next bill will be the global warming legislation called cap and trade. ”
You make good points about how the bill that passed last night reflects jewish values. B'yirtzah hashem they will combine the health bill and the global warming bill together in the Senate and pass one bill that will transform our society fundamentally the way hashem would want and take care of people and the planet as the Torah directs us.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 08:40 AM Anonymous Says:
“ As an Australian who has BOTH private and public health coverage options, can someone explain to me why universal coverage is so detrimental to the US? As far as I can see, when it comes to life expectancy and other such measures to measure the state of health care in a country the US is NOT even in the top 10. So called “socialist” countries like Australia, France, Canada and Israel all are in the top 10 countries by life expectancy. Where is the US? Way down at # 34 according to CIA World Factbook (2009)
Over here in Australia if you have a pre existing medical condition which makes it difficult to buy private insurance you are not left to die. No one is left on the streets.
All I can say is thank G-d I live in a “socialist” country. I’ll take “socialist” Australia any day than the horrendous poverty (beggars on every corner) and filth I have to put up with when I am in NY.
”
Well said. Americans are not interested in information, only mud-slinging and demagoguery. Many on this board are happy to collect completely free "socialist" health care in the way of Medicaid and Medicare, but suddenly they are "outraged" by a subsidized health insurance program in which the patient would have to pay a premium every month.
Hypocrisy knows no bounds.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 08:31 AM Brian Says:
I think all the congressmen that voted for this will need some end of life counseling of their carreers come 2010.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 08:27 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You davened for evil. This bill provides for unregulated abortion and euthanasia. What do you think "end of life counseling" really means?
They openly said that meds would be rationed and logically that extends to certain therapies also. What will you do when they, G-d forbid, won't care for your premature infant because his chances aren't as good as another's?
Israel does not have socialized medicine. Private care is available to anyone who chooses to pay for it. The same goes for Canada and Great Britain. ”
There is much more good in this bill than bad and the chazal tell us, "let not a search for the perfect become the enemy of seeking the tood". Its a good bill that will save many lives and we should not forego all that good because of some abstract concerns about a much smaller number of possible wrongs. I'm much more concerned about the hundrededs of thousand of children and mothers who will get health coverage than the possibility of a few abortions.
76
Nov 08, 2009 at 09:15 AM Anonymous Says:
“ most of the yidden are against this bill . the nazis took over the health care system also .so this is what dictators do so then u have no rights left. we should try to vote out rep.weiner bec he was one of the bigget supporters for this . ”
Speak for yourself. "Yidden" means Jews, and 77% of them voted for Obama.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 09:37 AM torahyid Says:
I think its good that one country in the world should have capatilist medicine, as this gives doctors and pharmaceutical companies incentives to advance. I'm just happy I don't live there but in Israel where the kuppot cholim are decent, have some incentive bec they compete with each other (unlike in the UK), gives more incentive to people to check any health problem they might have, and in the case of anything serious there is cheap private insurance (i pay $30/month)that covers serious cases to go anywhere in the world and choose any doctor. although VAT and other taxes are higher I believe the toll of high insurance would be felt much more (I buy many of my electricals from Us, so I win both ways).
78
Nov 08, 2009 at 09:30 AM anonymous Says:
“ A triumphant Speaker Nancy Pelosi likened the legislation to the passage of Social Security in 1935 and Medicare 30 years later.
Uh, excuse me Ms Stretch Pelosi but arent those two programs just about BANKRUPT?!?!!?!! ”
Yes the ganovim stealing from Medicare billions of dollar and the Bush administration financing the dificit with FICA has put both program in a financial straight. The Gipper eliminated the hiring of inspectors for Medicare and the Mafia and other criminals had a free road to steal from Medicare
79
Nov 08, 2009 at 09:27 AM Anonymous Says:
“ no- "we" dont need this. talk for yourself
poor yidden have medicaid and if you think medicaid is not good enough for whatever reason----then your in real trouble because this is in other words "medicaid" for the whole country.
socialism is not a way of life.
rich people deserve better health care because they pay the money for it.
When you pay little or no money for something, the quality of the product is much worse.
if you have the whole country paying nothing for health insurance, then health care quality will go down the drain. Plus compound in illegals who take but don't give (like parasitic leeches) that will just quicken the process of the deterioration.
how could the government tell insurance companies that they cannot refuse customers based on pre existing conditions?? thats retarded
thats like forcing a car insurance company to insure a guy that was in 35 accidents in one year for the same low price as everyone else. Insanity.
just because an article highlights 9 lines of this multithousand page bill, and from those lines you see something that you might like, that doesn't mean its a good bill. ”
Take your head out of the sand, and shut your biased radio off.
A person who is faulted with 35 car crashes is obviously a poor driver. They engage in negligent behavior and should be treated accordingly. On the other hand, a person with a pre-existing condition, for the most part doesn't choose that position, they just didn't get the best luck of the roll in life.
To suggest that there is any parallel between a person who consciously chooses to make bad choices, and a person who is born with a genetic defect, is absurd.
80
Nov 08, 2009 at 09:48 AM Anonymous Says:
“ if thats the case i am very sorry that you are a yid! you have no idea what you davened for! we are now a socialist country. i hope you are happy when they start rationing everything under the claim of health.
there was no such thing as people not getting treated. you fell for the obama bull! ”
In response to # 9 , you must be living in the fog. How can you say that there is no such thing as people not getting treated. There are thousands of yidden that dont have access to medical care because of lack of insurance.
My only big concern is that if everyone gets insurance our healthcare system will look like our current Medicaid and hmo system. They also have no access to specialty care, yet they are covered.
81
Nov 08, 2009 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:
It still has to pass the Senate, which I think is unlikely.
82
Nov 08, 2009 at 09:54 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Maybe rich people also deserve a better defense, better roads, better public parks, better government representation, better schools, and better airports. After all, they pay most of the taxes.
A persons health is not a commodity to be bartered in the name of affordability.
Gd-willing, one day, you shouldn't be born with a child who has a pre-existing condition, and is turned down by insurance companies because they don't think your child is a "smart investment."
It is the cold and callous attitude that you harbor, which is responsible for the selfish, self-absorb, win-at-all-cost, failed county we find ourselves in today. ”
you can't compare highways and parks to insurance.
people go out and buy insurance, the same way you buy other goods and services.
You don't go out and buy a highway or buy a park.
If i have to explain to you that your analogy doesn't make sense, then you obviously are not thinking before you type.
When a person is born with a child with a pre-existing condition why shouldn't it make sense that the insurance will be higher?? after all the insurance company will be paying out much more claims for this baby.
Thats how insurance works.
Stop looking for a free lunch.
83
Nov 08, 2009 at 09:53 AM Truth Says:
“ Take your head out of the sand, and shut your biased radio off.
A person who is faulted with 35 car crashes is obviously a poor driver. They engage in negligent behavior and should be treated accordingly. On the other hand, a person with a pre-existing condition, for the most part doesn't choose that position, they just didn't get the best luck of the roll in life.
To suggest that there is any parallel between a person who consciously chooses to make bad choices, and a person who is born with a genetic defect, is absurd. ”
Speak to yourself- not to 46. I guess you would say AIDS, even though when they apply for insurance as a pre-condition is not their fault. How about a smoker? Most of the cases that are being denied by insurance companies aren't congenital defects!
84
Nov 08, 2009 at 10:02 AM Brian Says:
“ Take your head out of the sand, and shut your biased radio off.
A person who is faulted with 35 car crashes is obviously a poor driver. They engage in negligent behavior and should be treated accordingly. On the other hand, a person with a pre-existing condition, for the most part doesn't choose that position, they just didn't get the best luck of the roll in life.
To suggest that there is any parallel between a person who consciously chooses to make bad choices, and a person who is born with a genetic defect, is absurd. ”
No, what you are saying is that government should force auto companies to insure nearly blind drivers because it's not their fault. They were 'merely given a bad roll in life'. your ignorant compassion will cause the economy to nosedive, because your dear likeminded leaders occupy the government seats. G-D help us all.
85
Nov 08, 2009 at 10:11 AM Tevye Says:
“ Thank god the bill is now further along towards final passage. We all davened extra hard today that the House would pass the bill. There are so many poor yidden who desparately need the help this bill will provide. ”
You speak of something you do not know. I am a poor Yidden... but I appose this bill.
Did you not read the language of the bill? It will require everyone to get the insurance... even if it'll take our every last penny. Not to mention the ramifications of doing what the doctor says. If he says you have to take a none kosher drug... you have to take it, whether you like it or not.
Open your mind up instead of just opening your hand to receive something free. Have Emuna that Hashem will provide.
86
Nov 08, 2009 at 10:31 AM anonymous Says:
“ This is a great day for this nation. Finally a president who actually isn't afraid to live up to campaign promises, and swim against the tide.
Why anyone is against this is beyond me. Ignorance? Denial? Stockholm Syndrome?!!!
I think some people are just too lazy to do the math, and would prefer to regurgitate talk-radio soundbytes, believing themselves patriots.
Get this, as much as you'd like to believe in laissez-faire capitalism, presuming you understand it, it doesn't exist in America. We already have "socialist" institutions, (the Fed for example, and all those annoying labour rights laws), since people who actually CARE ABOUT SOCIETY, rather than their own selfish ends already made it abundantly clear that the purely free market undermines human rights, and democracy!!! Market forces need to be checked and overseen by moral ones.
The irony is, most of the frummeh conservatives I encounter on a daily basis are the ones getting hurt most by the status quo, and would only benefit from a subsidized government health plan. The insurance companies LOVE your naive "patriotism".
”
I don't know but I am impressed by your reasoning. I was in concentration camp and saw the leck of medical care and depraved medical practice. I was liberated with a bone infection and girated from hospital to hospital until finally following intervention by my relatives in New York the Joint condescended to pay for the treatment of a "survivor". I also worked for 40 years as medical translator Johns Hospkins and free lanced for Brookhaven National Laboratory and Medical Welch Library and other companies. Medical care can only be successful if the those who deliver the care are motivated by another motive besides money. It is obscene that an insurance executive who never went to medical school is paid such high compensation. The AMA is composed of physicians and if they backed the bill all those ignoramuses should keep their oral cavity shut
87
Nov 08, 2009 at 10:30 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
No, it has not been the end. However, look at all the foreighneers who come to the U.S.A. when they are looking for or need serious medical attention. You are not reading into the fine lines of what was passed. Believe me many of those who voted in favor did so without reading. They did so for their selfish needs of getting good benefits when they retire thanks to taxpayers like me whose paycheck is almost 60% to taxes and we get the rest.
88
Nov 08, 2009 at 10:27 AM Anonymous Says:
“ No, what you are saying is that government should force auto companies to insure nearly blind drivers because it's not their fault. They were 'merely given a bad roll in life'. your ignorant compassion will cause the economy to nosedive, because your dear likeminded leaders occupy the government seats. G-D help us all. ”
Auto companies don't insure people, insurance companies do.
A blind driver can't drive because it is impossible for them to do so. They would not be able to get a license let alone insurance.
The word "ignorant" means lacking in knowledge. The word "compassion" means a feeling of sympathy for another person. "Ignorant compassion is an oxymoron; you can't lack knowledge of something you feel.
If being compassionate, a uniquely human quality that has been endowed to us by our creator, is somehow offensive to you, that's too bad. We can't all be cold-hearted, indifferent losers, obsessed with living vicariously through the rich.
Just out of curiosity, where were you shouting from the rooftops about the economy nosediving when George Bush passed the 1.2 trillion dollar Prescription Drug Benefit Program, or when he spent over a trillion dollars occupying Arab countries,or when he wrote stimulus checks to taxpayers. Oh yes, back then we heard not a peep out of you.
89
Nov 08, 2009 at 10:24 AM LIBERALISM IS A DISEASE!! Says:
“ you did not fight the "brits" and probbly never held a rifle in your hand. Social Security is not bankrupt except the coffers have been emptied to cover a higher deficit from the military spending. The AMA came out for it which to me is not a socialist organization . ”
You are falling for the hype which is EXACTLY what the Obama rosha wants you to see.
The AMA doesn't support it. Their leadership 'may' support it or they had their arms twisted to 'support' it but the doctors in general - their membership - DO NOT support this continued intrusion of govt in our lives as we had down the destructive path of socialism.
Rabosi, you MUST take your heads out of the sand or wherever you keep it because your taxes - EVERYBODY'S TAXES - will go up from this. NO ONE IS IMMUNE!!!
90
Nov 08, 2009 at 10:59 AM anonymous Says:
Liberalism has increased the research funds in Johns Hopkins according to my relative a physician at Johns Hospkins. Liberalism was instrumental in passing Medicare which the great communicatory tried to wreck. Liberalism created the FDA which discovered Thalidomide which caused horrible malformations. It is conservatism which allowed the graft and stealing on wall street which may yet be the demise of the dollar according to foreign economist and the free market created the havoc on the international financial system. It is Liberalism which allows to spew all your malarkey and pray as a Jew instead of worrying about shechita as they do in conservative Switzerland
91
Nov 08, 2009 at 11:05 AM anonymous Says:
“ There is no VAT tax anywhere in this legislation. Why are you claiming there is?
Social Security is not bankrupt. Far from it, it has assets in excess of 1.4 trillion dollars. At some point in the relatively near future (next decade or so) there will be an adjustment as there was in 1983, but even without that, the fund is solvent through 2040 (Social Security Trustees) or 2050 (Congressional Budget Office estimate).
The Post Office? You mean the Post Office which hasn't used any taxpayer funds since the early 1980s, and is the only flat rate delivery service that covers the entire United States? There are parts of the United States only available by brush plane that can still send and receive mail for the same price you'd pay to drop it in the mail in New York.
Oh, one last thing. You wanted to know "why we fought the Brits"? Perhaps you should note that the elected officials of the American citizens passed this. You know, that representation thing. Also, if you think that the 18th century British Empire was socialist, you had best read up on history.
”
Dave kudos to you. The Congressional Budget Office and the Heritage foundation check on the SSA overhead and its administrative expenses are 1.6 % of its budget Check the administrative cost of private insurers and read the false information disseminated by the CATO institute and you get a true picture
92
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:09 PM anonymous Says:
“ Boruch Hashem, we have a Supreme Court that will likely agree with you. ”
I am sure that the Supreme Court will give great consideration before hearing a stupid brief like this. However, in law there is a clause called "stare dicisis" which means precedent laws and this applies to the states who force you to carry auto insuran ce before you can drive a car. For this reason I doubt that the Supreme will hear such stupid argument.
93
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:02 PM A Person Says:
“ Thank god the bill is now further along towards final passage. We all davened extra hard today that the House would pass the bill. There are so many poor yidden who desparately need the help this bill will provide. ”
Now can you even explain what this bill is and how it works? Or can anyone do that?
94
Nov 08, 2009 at 11:58 AM anonymous Says:
“ The mandate is unconstitutional. Nowhere in the constitution is Congress given the authority to FORCE people to buy insurance. ”
you show when the supreme court without someone someone filing a brief has overturned a law passed by Congress
95
Nov 08, 2009 at 11:39 AM Liberalism is a Disease! Says:
“ Liberalism has increased the research funds in Johns Hopkins according to my relative a physician at Johns Hospkins. Liberalism was instrumental in passing Medicare which the great communicatory tried to wreck. Liberalism created the FDA which discovered Thalidomide which caused horrible malformations. It is conservatism which allowed the graft and stealing on wall street which may yet be the demise of the dollar according to foreign economist and the free market created the havoc on the international financial system. It is Liberalism which allows to spew all your malarkey and pray as a Jew instead of worrying about shechita as they do in conservative Switzerland ”
"Liberalism was instrumental in passing Medicare which the great communicatory tried to wreck." So where is all the money? You should be thanking HKBH every day for President Reagan and what he did for this country.
"It is conservatism which allowed the graft and stealing on wall street... " Barney Frank and his gang of theives are conservative? I thought Faygala Frank was a libereral??
"It is Liberalism which allows to spew all your malarkey ..." Really, so which party is trying to stife free speech on TV, Radio, and Internet?
You are VERY VERY VERY naive!
96
Nov 08, 2009 at 12:26 PM anonymous Says:
“ "Liberalism was instrumental in passing Medicare which the great communicatory tried to wreck." So where is all the money? You should be thanking HKBH every day for President Reagan and what he did for this country.
"It is conservatism which allowed the graft and stealing on wall street... " Barney Frank and his gang of theives are conservative? I thought Faygala Frank was a libereral??
"It is Liberalism which allows to spew all your malarkey ..." Really, so which party is trying to stife free speech on TV, Radio, and Internet?
You are VERY VERY VERY naive! ”
The great communicator curtailed the hiring of inspectors and with insufficient inspector the Mafia flourished. President Reagan shouted that the government is the problem which gave free reign to the biggest collapse of the investment house Lehman Brothers who invested people's money in so called derivatives and other worthless financial instrument which may yet bring down dollar to a collapse and tell me how come the free market did not adjust itself. Maybethe ganeiva was too big. Where to Barney Frank come into all this except in you maladjusted imagination
97
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:35 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Has it been the end of Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Sweden, Netherland and Israel, among others?? ”
So I guess now americans will have the same quality health care as those countries , that you mention ,
By the way do americans go to those countries for medical treatmenst , or to they come from those countried to america for medical treatments , if they had such good "free" health care , why do they come here to "pay" for it ?
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Nov 08, 2009 at 02:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I am sure that the Supreme Court will give great consideration before hearing a stupid brief like this. However, in law there is a clause called "stare dicisis" which means precedent laws and this applies to the states who force you to carry auto insuran ce before you can drive a car. For this reason I doubt that the Supreme will hear such stupid argument. ”
The difference is that driving a car is a privilege (and you can choose whether to own a car) and can come with strings attached. The recently passed bill would mandate health insurance coverage for everyone. In other words, the only prerequisite to being forced into buying insurance is BEING ALIVE .
Incidentally, it is spelled "stare DECISIS". Where did you go to law school?
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Nov 08, 2009 at 02:01 PM dov Says:
wats the difference between this and medicare? doesnt the govt provide medicare?
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Nov 08, 2009 at 03:56 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Liberalism has increased the research funds in Johns Hopkins according to my relative a physician at Johns Hospkins. Liberalism was instrumental in passing Medicare which the great communicatory tried to wreck. Liberalism created the FDA which discovered Thalidomide which caused horrible malformations. It is conservatism which allowed the graft and stealing on wall street which may yet be the demise of the dollar according to foreign economist and the free market created the havoc on the international financial system. It is Liberalism which allows to spew all your malarkey and pray as a Jew instead of worrying about shechita as they do in conservative Switzerland ”
This is all correct. And it is interesting that none of the right wingers who are screaming about the evils of government involvement in health care are willing today to try to abolish Medicare. They know that it works, is the most efficient insurance plan in America, and is very popular.
The health care plan will result in improved health and longer lives for Americans -- Jewish and not. Health care will finally be available to those who are self-employed, and to those who aren't employed. Contrary to the lies of the right wingers, the bill contains no "death panel" and actually prohibits the insurance plans that are a part of the program from paying for abortions. It also reduces the federal deficit.
The first person to promote universal health insurance in America was Theodore Roosevelt, over 97 years ago. It is about time. Hopefully the Senate will enact a similar law.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 04:00 PM anonymous Says:
“ The difference is that driving a car is a privilege (and you can choose whether to own a car) and can come with strings attached. The recently passed bill would mandate health insurance coverage for everyone. In other words, the only prerequisite to being forced into buying insurance is BEING ALIVE .
Incidentally, it is spelled "stare DECISIS". Where did you go to law school? ”
You answered yourself. Driving a car is privelege which you can forgo and health insurance is a necessity. For this reason depriving people of such coverage is unethical
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Nov 08, 2009 at 04:08 PM anonymous Says:
“ The difference is that driving a car is a privilege (and you can choose whether to own a car) and can come with strings attached. The recently passed bill would mandate health insurance coverage for everyone. In other words, the only prerequisite to being forced into buying insurance is BEING ALIVE .
Incidentally, it is spelled "stare DECISIS". Where did you go to law school? ”
Just more observation you probably are an ambulance chaser who makes a fortune on all the failed laminectomies and other fouled up invasive procedure and better health care would diminish you profits
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Nov 08, 2009 at 04:53 PM IniquiTrance Says:
Just to clarify things, the Obama administration has no intention of implementing a system such as those in the UK and Canada. He has said numerous times that creating a single payer system is simply not practical given the infrastructure already in place.
The moment you begin to compare the proposed changes to the healthcare system to Canada's, you've already created a strawman. Compare apples to apples. You are entitled to parrot Savage et al's half baked soundbytes if you wish, but you might want to take a step back and evaluate them for yourself. You'll be surprised how full they are of fallacious reasoning.
To state the obvious, this won't be free. But what this is essentially is a redistribution of wealth which history has shown must be periodically done to ensure a society's stability. Typically this occurred through civil war.
The bulk of the cost will be shouldered by those ABLE to pay. Of course this is a slippery slope, but there are metrics that can be used to gauge when someone's assets dwarf everyone else's. There is marginal utility to every dollar of revenue, and there is a debt to society for providing the framework in which such revenue can be earned.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 04:37 PM Brian Says:
“ Auto companies don't insure people, insurance companies do.
A blind driver can't drive because it is impossible for them to do so. They would not be able to get a license let alone insurance.
The word "ignorant" means lacking in knowledge. The word "compassion" means a feeling of sympathy for another person. "Ignorant compassion is an oxymoron; you can't lack knowledge of something you feel.
If being compassionate, a uniquely human quality that has been endowed to us by our creator, is somehow offensive to you, that's too bad. We can't all be cold-hearted, indifferent losers, obsessed with living vicariously through the rich.
Just out of curiosity, where were you shouting from the rooftops about the economy nosediving when George Bush passed the 1.2 trillion dollar Prescription Drug Benefit Program, or when he spent over a trillion dollars occupying Arab countries,or when he wrote stimulus checks to taxpayers. Oh yes, back then we heard not a peep out of you.
”
During the Bush years, I was screaming from the rooftops, because bush was a liberal. That's also why I voted for third party instead of voting for the liberal McCain. You just showed your true colors as matter of factly stating false premises about my beliefs and feelings, without ever having met me. Quite typical of the left (yes from your support of socialist healthcare, I know you are leftist).
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Nov 08, 2009 at 08:12 PM Truth Says:
“ This is all correct. And it is interesting that none of the right wingers who are screaming about the evils of government involvement in health care are willing today to try to abolish Medicare. They know that it works, is the most efficient insurance plan in America, and is very popular.
The health care plan will result in improved health and longer lives for Americans -- Jewish and not. Health care will finally be available to those who are self-employed, and to those who aren't employed. Contrary to the lies of the right wingers, the bill contains no "death panel" and actually prohibits the insurance plans that are a part of the program from paying for abortions. It also reduces the federal deficit.
The first person to promote universal health insurance in America was Theodore Roosevelt, over 97 years ago. It is about time. Hopefully the Senate will enact a similar law.
”
Of course it's popular, it's an entitlement. In other words it's free. This insurance isn't, even poor people who can't afford it will have to pay for it. Whom are they helping? Even before this bill bankrupts all the insurance companies- the premiums for the government insurance is going to higher than the private companies!
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Nov 08, 2009 at 08:21 PM Truth Says:
“ I don't know but I am impressed by your reasoning. I was in concentration camp and saw the leck of medical care and depraved medical practice. I was liberated with a bone infection and girated from hospital to hospital until finally following intervention by my relatives in New York the Joint condescended to pay for the treatment of a "survivor". I also worked for 40 years as medical translator Johns Hospkins and free lanced for Brookhaven National Laboratory and Medical Welch Library and other companies. Medical care can only be successful if the those who deliver the care are motivated by another motive besides money. It is obscene that an insurance executive who never went to medical school is paid such high compensation. The AMA is composed of physicians and if they backed the bill all those ignoramuses should keep their oral cavity shut ”
The AMA never backed the bill; they booed Obama when he spoke to them. The AMA also has a liberal leadership -maybe they support this bill, but I know for a fact the membership does not. BTW, Communists were almost as bad as the nazis- don't believe the communist dogma of everybody will be equal. First healthcare -then everything else. Yidden suffered for a lot longer under communism, then under Hitler YM"S.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 08:58 PM PMO Says:
“ You speak of something you do not know. I am a poor Yidden... but I appose this bill.
Did you not read the language of the bill? It will require everyone to get the insurance... even if it'll take our every last penny. Not to mention the ramifications of doing what the doctor says. If he says you have to take a none kosher drug... you have to take it, whether you like it or not.
Open your mind up instead of just opening your hand to receive something free. Have Emuna that Hashem will provide. ”
Comparisons to Canada's plan or the UK plan are like comparing apples and eggs. Yes, you can eat both but they are fundamentally different.
There is no "free" health care here unless you live well below the poverty line.
Hospitals will continue to be PRIVATE institutions.
Insurance companies will continue to be PRIVATE institutions.
Doctors will not be employees of the government.
Again, I am against this plan, much as I am against all government entitlements Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, etc. (except for the severely disabled who can't work). Those who choose to live without health insurance should NOT have the same access to life saving treatments as the rest of us. You make the choice, you live with the consequences. The government should not be involved at all. Let the free market run its course.
However, those who compare this VERY unique plan to what other countries do clearly do not understand what is actually in this bill.
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Nov 08, 2009 at 10:35 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You answered yourself. Driving a car is privelege which you can forgo and health insurance is a necessity. For this reason depriving people of such coverage is unethical ”
You misunderstood. Pretty much completely. I meant that this bill treats life itself as a privilege.
In case you still don't understand, I'll put this in starker terms: under this bill if you choose to forgo paying for insurance you will GO TO PRISON.
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Nov 09, 2009 at 03:10 AM PMO Says:
“ You misunderstood. Pretty much completely. I meant that this bill treats life itself as a privilege.
In case you still don't understand, I'll put this in starker terms: under this bill if you choose to forgo paying for insurance you will GO TO PRISON. ”
Actually, if you choose not to have insurance you have to pay a few hundred dollars a year, which will essentially cover you if you need to visit an emergency room without insurance.
You only risk jail time if you don't pay the annual fee.
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Nov 09, 2009 at 03:08 AM PMO Says:
“ You are falling for the hype which is EXACTLY what the Obama rosha wants you to see.
The AMA doesn't support it. Their leadership 'may' support it or they had their arms twisted to 'support' it but the doctors in general - their membership - DO NOT support this continued intrusion of govt in our lives as we had down the destructive path of socialism.
Rabosi, you MUST take your heads out of the sand or wherever you keep it because your taxes - EVERYBODY'S TAXES - will go up from this. NO ONE IS IMMUNE!!! ”
Can you show the poll which shows that doctors do not want it? Other than the fake poll that Beck quoted, I can't find one that shows that doctors don't want it. Actually all the polls (even those from some conservative pollsters) show the exact opposite.
While everyone should be concerned about yet another entitlement program, this ridiculous "destructive path to socialism" started LONG ago. All the phonies who think this OPTIONAL plan is socialist are the ones living with their head in the sand.
Medicaid, Medicare, Welfare, Section 8, Food Stamps, WIC, etc. are far more in-line with socialism than this health plan is and should be abolished. The problem is that the phonies like Beck and Hannity and those who worship them. They have no idea what socialism is. Just think about the guy who yelled "keep the government's hands off my Medicare".
A true conservative fights to abolish *ALL* of these ridiculous government run entiltements. Phony conservatives either just fight against the plans of the "scary" "nazi" "facist" "KGB" (or whatever word they use this week) President, or just follow the dummies like Hannity and Limbaugh who are preaching the nonsense.
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Nov 09, 2009 at 08:08 AM anonymous Says:
“ You misunderstood. Pretty much completely. I meant that this bill treats life itself as a privilege.
In case you still don't understand, I'll put this in starker terms: under this bill if you choose to forgo paying for insurance you will GO TO PRISON. ”
I believe your conclusion is a figment of your imagination
112
Nov 09, 2009 at 08:05 AM anonymous Says:
“ The AMA never backed the bill; they booed Obama when he spoke to them. The AMA also has a liberal leadership -maybe they support this bill, but I know for a fact the membership does not. BTW, Communists were almost as bad as the nazis- don't believe the communist dogma of everybody will be equal. First healthcare -then everything else. Yidden suffered for a lot longer under communism, then under Hitler YM"S. ”
Yidden were in NKWD as officers, I met Yidden who were officers in the Red Army,[they deserted] Lubavich had chedorim in Soviet Russia, I met Yidden who baked shmira matzes in Stalinabad, my parents went into gas chambers, so did my brother and uncles and cousins and I was 7 years under Hitler of which 3 1/2 in concentration camp. If you know history than your comparison is foolish to say the least
113
Nov 09, 2009 at 02:24 AM Anonymous Says:
“ As an Australian who has BOTH private and public health coverage options, can someone explain to me why universal coverage is so detrimental to the US? As far as I can see, when it comes to life expectancy and other such measures to measure the state of health care in a country the US is NOT even in the top 10. So called “socialist” countries like Australia, France, Canada and Israel all are in the top 10 countries by life expectancy. Where is the US? Way down at # 34 according to CIA World Factbook (2009)
Over here in Australia if you have a pre existing medical condition which makes it difficult to buy private insurance you are not left to die. No one is left on the streets.
All I can say is thank G-d I live in a “socialist” country. I’ll take “socialist” Australia any day than the horrendous poverty (beggars on every corner) and filth I have to put up with when I am in NY.
”
Australian,mind your buisness,and keep out of ours.p.s.look at what americans eat and then talk why they live less.That's why i support the gop's plan,what has a whole plan about health eating.
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Nov 09, 2009 at 01:14 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You answered yourself. Driving a car is privelege which you can forgo and health insurance is a necessity. For this reason depriving people of such coverage is unethical ”
Health insurance is NOT necessity and its not a G-d given right granted to you by the Constitution! You are entitled to healthcare in this country and you GET it. You may have to pay for it or otherwise be responsible for the bills but you get healthcare. The govt doesnt have to give you whateer you think is necessary.
Its necesary to have a job, should the govt give you a job?
Its necessary for you to get to work, should the govt give you a car?
Your right in this country was for Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Your rights do not include healthcare that the almighty obama decides you should have based on what they want to pay for!
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Nov 09, 2009 at 08:56 AM anonymous Says:
The necessity if based that Jews have rachmim and compassion and maybe you don't fall into this category therefore heal another Jew and ameliorate his suffering is not a priority to you and I feel sorry for your mindset
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Nov 09, 2009 at 09:48 AM anonymous Says:
“ Health insurance is NOT necessity and its not a G-d given right granted to you by the Constitution! You are entitled to healthcare in this country and you GET it. You may have to pay for it or otherwise be responsible for the bills but you get healthcare. The govt doesnt have to give you whateer you think is necessary.
Its necesary to have a job, should the govt give you a job?
Its necessary for you to get to work, should the govt give you a car?
Your right in this country was for Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. Your rights do not include healthcare that the almighty obama decides you should have based on what they want to pay for! ”
The greatest American President who saved this country from oblivion Harry S. Truman also tried unsuccessfully to institute health care and it dates back to the uniter of Germany , Junker Fuerst Otto von Bismarck
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Nov 09, 2009 at 04:22 PM Truth Says:
“ Yidden were in NKWD as officers, I met Yidden who were officers in the Red Army,[they deserted] Lubavich had chedorim in Soviet Russia, I met Yidden who baked shmira matzes in Stalinabad, my parents went into gas chambers, so did my brother and uncles and cousins and I was 7 years under Hitler of which 3 1/2 in concentration camp. If you know history than your comparison is foolish to say the least ”
You're in a dream world. Do you know how many jews were killed by Stalin? How about sent to Siberia for hard labor for being religious?
118
Nov 10, 2009 at 01:40 AM Milhouse Says:
“ I am sure that the Supreme Court will give great consideration before hearing a stupid brief like this. However, in law there is a clause called "stare dicisis" which means precedent laws and this applies to the states who force you to carry auto insuran ce before you can drive a car. For this reason I doubt that the Supreme will hear such stupid argument. ”
It's very easy not to have car insurance. All you have to do is not own a car. Even if you do own a car, NO state forces you to buy insurance for your own damage; you must only buy insurance for your liability to OTHER people. Now how does that translate to mandatory health insurance? From which clause in the constitution can you derive a power for the federal government to require people to buy health insurance, and punish them if they don't?
119
Nov 13, 2009 at 06:20 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Why is it that we hear not a peep out of you right-wingers when the government spends trillions of dollars on Iraq (they just approved another 680 billion dollar defense appropriations bill last week), and yet you get all up in arms when they spend 100 billion a year on health care?
It amazes me how you can drive on publicly finance roads, take publicly subsidized trains, eat publicly subsidized food, frequent public libraries and parks, many of you whether you are willing to admit it or not, collect publicly subsidized welfare in the way of Earned Income Credits, Food Stamps, Medicaid etc, and now you are worried about "socialism"? please give me a break and find another double standard to harp on. you people have no shame. ”
Let me explain to you why national defense is so important. You left wingers are either so naive or stupid to understand that no amount of free government health (Obama) care will unfortunately do any good to those over 3000 innocent American citizens murdered / burned alive by the (your friendly - we just have to talk nicely to them) blood thirsty Islamic terrorists back on 9/11 H"YD