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Fort Laudardale, FL - Rabbi Credited For Talking Rothstein Out of Committing Suicide |
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Rabbi Schneur Kaplan, the spiritual adviser of attorney Scott Rothstein
Here's what Rabbi Kaplan said about the Rothstein matter, without ever uttering the name of the man who is accused now of scamming investors out of hundreds of millions of dollars:
"During the past week we have received numerous, supportive and encouraging phone calls, e-mails and letters, from friends and members of the community. Devorah and I would like to take this opportunity to thank each and everyone of you for your sincere and heartfelt endorsements for the continued growth of the Downtown Jewish Center Chabad. All DJCC programs, activities and services will continue to go on with increased momentum, vigor and fosterage."
At the chabad last week, the rabbi said it would be inappropriate to comment about what's going on with Rothstein. Kaplan is one of two people who talked Rothstein out of committing suicide Saturday, according to Stuart Rosenfeldt, law firm co-founder.
I asked Kaplan about his suicide talk with Rothstein but he wouldn't comment about that, either.
The email included some teachings, with this summary:
As the commentaries explain, there are two possible reactions a person can have toward a fellow who has wronged him, or whom he sees behaving in a morally deficient manner: 1) he can despise him in his heart, regarding him as a "sinner," and perhaps even persecute him for his "sins"; 2) he can rebuke him in the effort to convince him of the folly of his ways and seek to influence him to change them. The path of love, says the Torah, is not to to "hate your brother in your heart" but to "repeatedly rebuke" him and seek to better him.
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Read Comments (41) — Post Yours »
1
Nov 08, 2009 at 01:43 PM Anonymous Says:
I thank hashem for that there are such nice people like that rabbi
2
Nov 08, 2009 at 02:52 PM Anonymous Says:
Very impressive rabbi. I only wish him good luck with dealing with all the ramifications.
3
Nov 08, 2009 at 03:33 PM Richard Nixon Says:
Has the 'spiritual advisor' started to raise money for the victims? Seems from the PR email all that is important to hin is the chabad programs continuing. To H**l with the guys victims. So long as the chabad center doesn't suffer (or, chas veshalom, have to return any of the OPM he donated.
4
Nov 08, 2009 at 05:27 PM bodner hubenfeld says Says:
can the rabbi get back the twenty million dollars we lost
5
Nov 08, 2009 at 06:47 PM Anonymous Says:
perhpas all the supermarkets Rothstein shopped at will need to return the shopping money he used.
perhaps the health club he paid membership should return the membership money which was stolen. a
and so on and so forth. Get a life guys! just because his name is on a building does not mean the building must return the money.
6
Nov 08, 2009 at 07:04 PM Anonymous Says:
The Rabbi is amazing, his works amazing.. and his dedication to every Jew is even more amazing...
7
Nov 08, 2009 at 06:40 PM Robert Says:
Rabbi Kaplan we salute you!!!
8
Nov 08, 2009 at 06:26 PM i doubt it Says:
“ can the rabbi get back the twenty million dollars we lost ”
Doubtful. But he can probably set-up a Jewish Learning Institute (JLI)program tailored just for you on the topic of "how to get over being burnt by one's own greed".... This Chabas JLI thing is amazing, y'know.
With all these pontzi schemes the common theme is how everyone becomes a "victim" only after the insane 25% returns seize. Where was the money coming from before? Ever wondered about those victims? Chabad was not part of the ponzi scheme - you were. Did *you* the "victim" do your due dilligence before "investing"? The only "wrong" this Rabbi did was accept a pledge - now you are blaiming him for not having done an audit of the baal tzedoke's business? He has nothing else / better to do with his time, I suppose. What an insane, chutzpadik statement - to demand that the Rabbi reimburse you for your own stupidity and greed?
9
Nov 08, 2009 at 06:13 PM watergate Says:
“ Has the 'spiritual advisor' started to raise money for the victims? Seems from the PR email all that is important to hin is the chabad programs continuing. To H**l with the guys victims. So long as the chabad center doesn't suffer (or, chas veshalom, have to return any of the OPM he donated. ”
I guess your preference Mr. President would have been that the Rabbi let that yid commit suicide over some disputed promisary notes? Or he should fold his moisad, with all the heilige work that is being done there. You'll get over your lost 10 buck investment... but this shliach's deeds will endure forever.
10
Nov 08, 2009 at 09:43 PM Henry Kissinger Says:
Torah cannot be built on tainted money.
Rav Elchanan Wasserman ztz"l, when Baroanovitch was starving, would refuse donations from treifeh sources and even returned a donation he had already accepted when he found out the money was raised at a poker game, with all winnings being turned over to the yeshiva.
Nothing good will last from this or any other mosad that accepts such money.
11
Nov 08, 2009 at 09:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I guess your preference Mr. President would have been that the Rabbi let that yid commit suicide over some disputed promisary notes? Or he should fold his moisad, with all the heilige work that is being done there. You'll get over your lost 10 buck investment... but this shliach's deeds will endure forever. ”
I believe the President's preference wouuld have een to see therabbi express 1% as much concern for the victims as he has expressed for the accused, and to have shown a minimal measure of restraint when publicizing the fact that he obviously values the success of his chabad enterprise over all else.
LA"D, the torah does not teach that the ends justify the means.
Perhaps the rabbi wouldbe well-served by a reminder that we are judged by the company we choose to keep.
12
Nov 08, 2009 at 09:03 PM Anonymous Says:
I have met and dealt with the Rabbi and his wife Devorah on numerous occasions. I am sure they are going through a difficult time and i wish them only the best, they are remarkable, selfless people with loving hearts.
You have our support we love you both!!
Veenerly & Kate
13
Nov 08, 2009 at 10:01 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Has the 'spiritual advisor' started to raise money for the victims? Seems from the PR email all that is important to hin is the chabad programs continuing. To H**l with the guys victims. So long as the chabad center doesn't suffer (or, chas veshalom, have to return any of the OPM he donated. ”
Why should he raise money for the victims? Why are they his problem?
14
Nov 08, 2009 at 10:23 PM Henry Kissinger Says:
“ Why should he raise money for the victims? Why are they his problem? ”
a) Because most of them are yiddin and chabad shelichim are famous for caring for every Jew
b) He has such ahavas yisroel that he feels compelled to prop up the accused, so surely he must want to help the victims even more.
15
Nov 08, 2009 at 11:12 PM chusidwb Says:
This crap I can't handle. The guy takes millions from people and makes a ponzi scam . Jews wake up let's all condemm this ganev , rooshe . This is waht causes the average jewish business man such heart ache , honest people try to make a living and the goy sees this and says you're all ganuvim! And this is what causes some small time illeagel ,or overlooked acts to be be blown of proportion .I hope this stuff is not done by the shomer torah community . I console myself-- that this ganev had no shaiaches with yiddishkiet , yes shomre torah took money from him but the ganev just gave it to anyone , he wasn't picky , hee-- it wasn't his money!!
16
Nov 08, 2009 at 10:51 PM kenry hugginger Says:
“ a) Because most of them are yiddin and chabad shelichim are famous for caring for every Jew
b) He has such ahavas yisroel that he feels compelled to prop up the accused, so surely he must want to help the victims even more. ”
And how do you know that the Rabbi did not or is not doing anything for the other "victims"? Just because somehow the story of him saving a man from suicide r''l was publicized you immediately assume that he doesn't care about anyone else?
On the other hand, he's a shliach. By definition his primary worry should be about safeguarding his shlichus, his moisad, his kehiloh /mekurovim etc.. What in the world are you demanding from him and are you prepared to do 1 millionth of what you are demanding from him yourself?? B'poel that is. Who did *you* help today?
17
Nov 08, 2009 at 11:45 PM Godol HaDor Says:
Im reading these posts from all the Holy holies who want Chabad to give back the money, the shliach recieved innocently, and also do something for the poor victims, and criticize that Chabad should not accept in the future just , like Reb Elchonon didnt, any money from "these" type of people etc etc.
It's readily apparent where and which community these people "shtam" from, so I am going to ask the simple question and I'd like an intelligent answer.
It's all over the news that the tremendous Baal Tzedoko from Flatbush and Toimech Toireh RS and his esteemed partners, are accused of being involved in a 50 million dollar kickback (fraud) scheme, Are you asking the yeshivos he supports to give back the money and no longer take any money from him? at least until this tremendous accusation and chilul hashem gets cleared up?
YU got tremendous money from Merkin, a real piece of work, is anybody demanding that YU give money back? and the Sfardic community? And the current issued in Lakewood?
Puhleeeeeze....at least stop the hypocrisy
18
Nov 09, 2009 at 12:04 AM Henry Kissinger Says:
“ And how do you know that the Rabbi did not or is not doing anything for the other "victims"? Just because somehow the story of him saving a man from suicide r''l was publicized you immediately assume that he doesn't care about anyone else?
On the other hand, he's a shliach. By definition his primary worry should be about safeguarding his shlichus, his moisad, his kehiloh /mekurovim etc.. What in the world are you demanding from him and are you prepared to do 1 millionth of what you are demanding from him yourself?? B'poel that is. Who did *you* help today?
”
1) The question was asked, is the shaliach doing anything for the victims. No accusation was made. (see post #3)
2) If he is a rabbi, his primary worry should be for emes. Torah never was and never will be built on treifeh gelt. The ends will not justify the means.
3) What did anyone demand of him?
4) What have *you* done to help another person today?
BTW, thank you for turning this personal. Best way of letting me know a valid point has been raised.
19
Nov 09, 2009 at 06:26 AM kenry hugginger Says:
“ 1) The question was asked, is the shaliach doing anything for the victims. No accusation was made. (see post #3)
2) If he is a rabbi, his primary worry should be for emes. Torah never was and never will be built on treifeh gelt. The ends will not justify the means.
3) What did anyone demand of him?
4) What have *you* done to help another person today?
BTW, thank you for turning this personal. Best way of letting me know a valid point has been raised.
”
Re. 1. You accused him - quite brazingly, of accepting *treife gelt* b'meizid. And I doubt you are prepared to accuse him to his face at a b''d as you know full well this is a lie.
Re. 2. Emes should be everyone's concern, the esteemed formerly Jewish Secretary of State included. So if you look at what you posted mit a shtikl emes, you will see yourself why a poshte yid like yours truly will react negatively to your conceit-filled selfrighteous sermon on what Toiro could or could not be built on... BTW, should we return all the gelt we got from the mitzrim by yetzias mitzrayim? I bet it aint kosher.
Re. 3) you demanded of him ( for some strange reason) that he make it his life's mission to help the "victims" of the ponzi scheme. As if:
(A) the Rabbi took the money for himself (as opposed to for the moisad / kehilo)
(B) the Rabbi has any of the money left (as opposed to having it all spent months ago on his moisad's mortgage, programs, g'mach, etc..)
(C) the Rabbi has some kind of moral responsibility towards the victims of the "ponzi" scheme (who, btw, only became "victims" because the scheme collapsed before they had a chance of cashing out - what a joke...)
I'm hoping I did help a yid today - I am hopeful that following my sharp rebuke, this secretary of state will do tshuva and from this point on will avoid sinas chinom and loshon horo... I think that's a big thing. But my question to you still stands.
20
Nov 09, 2009 at 12:48 AM Henry Kissinger Says:
Maybe he wanted to make the proceeds of his life insurance policies available for restitution.
21
Nov 09, 2009 at 12:15 AM Henry Kissinger Says:
“ Im reading these posts from all the Holy holies who want Chabad to give back the money, the shliach recieved innocently, and also do something for the poor victims, and criticize that Chabad should not accept in the future just , like Reb Elchonon didnt, any money from "these" type of people etc etc.
It's readily apparent where and which community these people "shtam" from, so I am going to ask the simple question and I'd like an intelligent answer.
It's all over the news that the tremendous Baal Tzedoko from Flatbush and Toimech Toireh RS and his esteemed partners, are accused of being involved in a 50 million dollar kickback (fraud) scheme, Are you asking the yeshivos he supports to give back the money and no longer take any money from him? at least until this tremendous accusation and chilul hashem gets cleared up?
YU got tremendous money from Merkin, a real piece of work, is anybody demanding that YU give money back? and the Sfardic community? And the current issued in Lakewood?
Puhleeeeeze....at least stop the hypocrisy
”
Of course they should all give back any treifeh money and refuse it in the future. It is causing mosdos to rot from the inside.
And your getting down and dirty with tagging hich communities you think people are from because they have an opinion with which you disagree proves that a valid point has been raised. Deal with it. Stop responding like a six year old in the playground.
22
Nov 09, 2009 at 08:54 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ Re. 1. You accused him - quite brazingly, of accepting *treife gelt* b'meizid. And I doubt you are prepared to accuse him to his face at a b''d as you know full well this is a lie.
Re. 2. Emes should be everyone's concern, the esteemed formerly Jewish Secretary of State included. So if you look at what you posted mit a shtikl emes, you will see yourself why a poshte yid like yours truly will react negatively to your conceit-filled selfrighteous sermon on what Toiro could or could not be built on... BTW, should we return all the gelt we got from the mitzrim by yetzias mitzrayim? I bet it aint kosher.
Re. 3) you demanded of him ( for some strange reason) that he make it his life's mission to help the "victims" of the ponzi scheme. As if:
(A) the Rabbi took the money for himself (as opposed to for the moisad / kehilo)
(B) the Rabbi has any of the money left (as opposed to having it all spent months ago on his moisad's mortgage, programs, g'mach, etc..)
(C) the Rabbi has some kind of moral responsibility towards the victims of the "ponzi" scheme (who, btw, only became "victims" because the scheme collapsed before they had a chance of cashing out - what a joke...)
I'm hoping I did help a yid today - I am hopeful that following my sharp rebuke, this secretary of state will do tshuva and from this point on will avoid sinas chinom and loshon horo... I think that's a big thing. But my question to you still stands. ”
Please clarify - where did you see anyone accuse the shaliach of accepting treifeh gelt *bemaizid*?? And what does the word *brazingly* mean?
23
Nov 09, 2009 at 09:02 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ Re. 1. You accused him - quite brazingly, of accepting *treife gelt* b'meizid. And I doubt you are prepared to accuse him to his face at a b''d as you know full well this is a lie.
Re. 2. Emes should be everyone's concern, the esteemed formerly Jewish Secretary of State included. So if you look at what you posted mit a shtikl emes, you will see yourself why a poshte yid like yours truly will react negatively to your conceit-filled selfrighteous sermon on what Toiro could or could not be built on... BTW, should we return all the gelt we got from the mitzrim by yetzias mitzrayim? I bet it aint kosher.
Re. 3) you demanded of him ( for some strange reason) that he make it his life's mission to help the "victims" of the ponzi scheme. As if:
(A) the Rabbi took the money for himself (as opposed to for the moisad / kehilo)
(B) the Rabbi has any of the money left (as opposed to having it all spent months ago on his moisad's mortgage, programs, g'mach, etc..)
(C) the Rabbi has some kind of moral responsibility towards the victims of the "ponzi" scheme (who, btw, only became "victims" because the scheme collapsed before they had a chance of cashing out - what a joke...)
I'm hoping I did help a yid today - I am hopeful that following my sharp rebuke, this secretary of state will do tshuva and from this point on will avoid sinas chinom and loshon horo... I think that's a big thing. But my question to you still stands. ”
You equate the rechush Gd promised to Avraham Avinu a"h and which was owed to bnai yisroel for thier avodas perach to money stolen in a Ponzi scheme??? How sad.
24
Nov 09, 2009 at 10:06 AM deep throat Says:
“ You equate the rechush Gd promised to Avraham Avinu a"h and which was owed to bnai yisroel for thier avodas perach to money stolen in a Ponzi scheme??? How sad. ”
Ch''v - not for a second. Please don't be sad, Mr. President - you're not a crook.
The question was about gelt whose origins are 'treif' (i.e. gelt originally obtained through immoral means) that is later given to a completely koshere Yid and that Yid does good things with the gelt. Now the presumption is that the Yid had no part in acquiring the gelt unlawfully and had no way of knowing that it was "stolen". The comparison to the gelt acquired by mitzriim who were not known for being ba'alei middos, came to mind as an (extreme) example of treife gelt being transformed into good. You say the gelt remains treif and all of the absolutely good things (e.g. mosdos, chinuch for Jewish children, "kiruv" etc.) built with this gelt are not good, rotten etc.. To me this sounds extremely strange. So my question is really what is this point of view based on?
Now, regarding the money being "stolen" - I beg to differ. The former owners of the money may very well be dissappointed, but you can't call them victims of a robbery. They gave the money willingly expecting unreasonably high returns - without doing the due dilligence of determining how these returns are generated.
25
Nov 09, 2009 at 09:36 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ Re. 1. You accused him - quite brazingly, of accepting *treife gelt* b'meizid. And I doubt you are prepared to accuse him to his face at a b''d as you know full well this is a lie.
Re. 2. Emes should be everyone's concern, the esteemed formerly Jewish Secretary of State included. So if you look at what you posted mit a shtikl emes, you will see yourself why a poshte yid like yours truly will react negatively to your conceit-filled selfrighteous sermon on what Toiro could or could not be built on... BTW, should we return all the gelt we got from the mitzrim by yetzias mitzrayim? I bet it aint kosher.
Re. 3) you demanded of him ( for some strange reason) that he make it his life's mission to help the "victims" of the ponzi scheme. As if:
(A) the Rabbi took the money for himself (as opposed to for the moisad / kehilo)
(B) the Rabbi has any of the money left (as opposed to having it all spent months ago on his moisad's mortgage, programs, g'mach, etc..)
(C) the Rabbi has some kind of moral responsibility towards the victims of the "ponzi" scheme (who, btw, only became "victims" because the scheme collapsed before they had a chance of cashing out - what a joke...)
I'm hoping I did help a yid today - I am hopeful that following my sharp rebuke, this secretary of state will do tshuva and from this point on will avoid sinas chinom and loshon horo... I think that's a big thing. But my question to you still stands. ”
According to you the victims have no rights to reclaim the money the ganef stole and gave to the mosid because the rabbi didn't take the money for himself. Therefore, you should not mind my stealing the shaliach's home, selling it, and using the money to build a new building for my son's yeshiva.
26
Nov 09, 2009 at 09:18 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Maybe he wanted to make the proceeds of his life insurance policies available for restitution. ”
He's a lawyer. He know that life insurance doesn't pay in the event of a suicide.
27
Nov 09, 2009 at 09:07 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ Re. 1. You accused him - quite brazingly, of accepting *treife gelt* b'meizid. And I doubt you are prepared to accuse him to his face at a b''d as you know full well this is a lie.
Re. 2. Emes should be everyone's concern, the esteemed formerly Jewish Secretary of State included. So if you look at what you posted mit a shtikl emes, you will see yourself why a poshte yid like yours truly will react negatively to your conceit-filled selfrighteous sermon on what Toiro could or could not be built on... BTW, should we return all the gelt we got from the mitzrim by yetzias mitzrayim? I bet it aint kosher.
Re. 3) you demanded of him ( for some strange reason) that he make it his life's mission to help the "victims" of the ponzi scheme. As if:
(A) the Rabbi took the money for himself (as opposed to for the moisad / kehilo)
(B) the Rabbi has any of the money left (as opposed to having it all spent months ago on his moisad's mortgage, programs, g'mach, etc..)
(C) the Rabbi has some kind of moral responsibility towards the victims of the "ponzi" scheme (who, btw, only became "victims" because the scheme collapsed before they had a chance of cashing out - what a joke...)
I'm hoping I did help a yid today - I am hopeful that following my sharp rebuke, this secretary of state will do tshuva and from this point on will avoid sinas chinom and loshon horo... I think that's a big thing. But my question to you still stands. ”
Please enlighten us. Where did you find a demand that the shaliach make restitution of the thief's genaiva his life work? I'm really concerned about this because I don't get out much any more and haven't had my eyes checked in a few decades. If I missed someone making this demand I really need to see an eye doctor.
28
Nov 09, 2009 at 10:28 AM deep throat Says:
“ Please clarify - where did you see anyone accuse the shaliach of accepting treifeh gelt *bemaizid*?? And what does the word *brazingly* mean? ”
forgive the bad spelling - meant to say "brazenly". need to get me a staff of speach writers like them presidents, so they would fix my spell'n.
Now, your secretary of state made the following statement: "Nothing good will last from this or any other mosad that accepts such money." Also the example that the secretary brought - "even returned a donation he had already accepted when *he found out* the money ..." v'chu -- clearly shows that the issue is with accepting the treife money *knowingly*. So the implication is that the Rabbi / moisad *accepted* "such money" *knowing* that it was "such money" at the time of acceptance. Anyone reading this will automatically arrive at the conclusion that the Shliach took the money in some dark alley passed to him by John Gotti's consigliere immediatly following a bank robbery. That's an accusation, no?...
If of course this was not what you meant to imply - I hereby request mechilah. But if you agree that the Shliach took the money assuming that it was 100% kosher, and he built good things with that money (can we agree on that?), I am at a complete loss as to what troubles you here...
29
Nov 09, 2009 at 10:40 AM deep throat Says:
“ According to you the victims have no rights to reclaim the money the ganef stole and gave to the mosid because the rabbi didn't take the money for himself. Therefore, you should not mind my stealing the shaliach's home, selling it, and using the money to build a new building for my son's yeshiva. ”
huh? and according to you the "victims" have such rights? based on which African republic's legal code? so we should sell the kindergarten and the hebrew school in order to let the "victims" (a more appropriate term would be "losers") buy those lamborginis they always wanted...?
I don't recommend doing what you suggest (stealing people's property etc.), because that would land you upstate for a long time. (not to mention the halachic difficulties that would raise). And again you are implying that the shliach *stole* something... gevald, gevald and only 10 and a half months to Yom Kippur...
30
Nov 09, 2009 at 11:05 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ huh? and according to you the "victims" have such rights? based on which African republic's legal code? so we should sell the kindergarten and the hebrew school in order to let the "victims" (a more appropriate term would be "losers") buy those lamborginis they always wanted...?
I don't recommend doing what you suggest (stealing people's property etc.), because that would land you upstate for a long time. (not to mention the halachic difficulties that would raise). And again you are implying that the shliach *stole* something... gevald, gevald and only 10 and a half months to Yom Kippur... ”
Stealing money is OK if the thief disapproves of the use to which its lawful owner intends the money to be used? I know you guys have your own shulchan aruch but this is a little bizzare.
31
Nov 09, 2009 at 11:03 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ huh? and according to you the "victims" have such rights? based on which African republic's legal code? so we should sell the kindergarten and the hebrew school in order to let the "victims" (a more appropriate term would be "losers") buy those lamborginis they always wanted...?
I don't recommend doing what you suggest (stealing people's property etc.), because that would land you upstate for a long time. (not to mention the halachic difficulties that would raise). And again you are implying that the shliach *stole* something... gevald, gevald and only 10 and a half months to Yom Kippur... ”
Nice try, but I never said the shaliach stole anything. I wrote that the money was stolen money. Yes, even if they were greedy and stupid, the guy running the ponzi scheme stole from them.
32
Nov 09, 2009 at 10:59 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ forgive the bad spelling - meant to say "brazenly". need to get me a staff of speach writers like them presidents, so they would fix my spell'n.
Now, your secretary of state made the following statement: "Nothing good will last from this or any other mosad that accepts such money." Also the example that the secretary brought - "even returned a donation he had already accepted when *he found out* the money ..." v'chu -- clearly shows that the issue is with accepting the treife money *knowingly*. So the implication is that the Rabbi / moisad *accepted* "such money" *knowing* that it was "such money" at the time of acceptance. Anyone reading this will automatically arrive at the conclusion that the Shliach took the money in some dark alley passed to him by John Gotti's consigliere immediatly following a bank robbery. That's an accusation, no?...
If of course this was not what you meant to imply - I hereby request mechilah. But if you agree that the Shliach took the money assuming that it was 100% kosher, and he built good things with that money (can we agree on that?), I am at a complete loss as to what troubles you here... ”
I never said, implied or meant to imply that the shaliach took the money knowingly, which is exactly why the dimyon to reb elchanan hy"d was fitting. He also initially accepted the money thinking it was kasherer gelt. My point was that as soon as he found out it wasn't he returned it. (obviously easier to do a few days later than after the money has been used to build a building.) Re: You inability to understand what issue I have with the money having been used for good deeds, not being your father or rebbe, my responsibility to educate you is rather limited. Torah will never be built on stolen money.
33
Nov 09, 2009 at 10:52 AM deep throat Says:
“ Please enlighten us. Where did you find a demand that the shaliach make restitution of the thief's genaiva his life work? I'm really concerned about this because I don't get out much any more and haven't had my eyes checked in a few decades. If I missed someone making this demand I really need to see an eye doctor. ”
I'd recommend a different doctor. This is your quote: "Has the 'spiritual advisor' started to raise money for the victims?" - the question is why in the world should he need do that? The "life mission" part - is a hyperbole to stress the point, I'm sure you'll get over it. And the point was: you have absolutely no right to expect let alone demand that the shliach invest a minute of his time to "raise money for the victims" - I can't imagine anything more ludicrous. I only resort to hyperbolic language when all other options fail. And they failed - nebuch...
34
Nov 09, 2009 at 12:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I'd recommend a different doctor. This is your quote: "Has the 'spiritual advisor' started to raise money for the victims?" - the question is why in the world should he need do that? The "life mission" part - is a hyperbole to stress the point, I'm sure you'll get over it. And the point was: you have absolutely no right to expect let alone demand that the shliach invest a minute of his time to "raise money for the victims" - I can't imagine anything more ludicrous. I only resort to hyperbolic language when all other options fail. And they failed - nebuch... ”
Demand? You see a demand in a question?? Perhaps it is not MYeyesight that has deteriorated.
As to why a Jew would want to raise money for another Jew who has had his lifesavings stolen from him - I didn't know that needed mephorshim.
35
Nov 09, 2009 at 12:56 PM Milhouse Says:
“ a) Because most of them are yiddin and chabad shelichim are famous for caring for every Jew
b) He has such ahavas yisroel that he feels compelled to prop up the accused, so surely he must want to help the victims even more. ”
He's busy. There's only one of him, and he can only do so much. If you're so concerned for them, YOU do something for them. Why are they his responsibility?
36
Nov 09, 2009 at 01:01 PM deeper throat Says:
“ Demand? You see a demand in a question?? Perhaps it is not MYeyesight that has deteriorated.
As to why a Jew would want to raise money for another Jew who has had his lifesavings stolen from him - I didn't know that needed mephorshim. ”
I see, so it's not a demand - just a question... Beautiful - I stand corrected. So when a cop pulls you over and asks you a questions like "may I see your license and registration, please?" you simply answer "yes!" and drive off - right? Some questions are phrased as demands y'know. Like, "when are you planning to move out of my basement already and get a job?!" kinda questions...
Oh, and you are absolutely right, a Jew should want to do that. Question is, should a Jew instead want that another Jew should do that instead of him... (Note: this is a question, not an accusation).
I don't know about your eyes, but the organ they are connected to definitely could use a tune up.
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Nov 09, 2009 at 12:04 PM deep throat Says:
“ Stealing money is OK if the thief disapproves of the use to which its lawful owner intends the money to be used? I know you guys have your own shulchan aruch but this is a little bizzare. ”
Ach. Finally we arrive at the yiker - and it only took 25 posts to get to it. "*You guys* have your own shulchan aruch" - that just says it all, doesn't it?... So why the charade, with multiple posts, and eloquent (in certain cultures) reasoning? Just say it openly that this was nothing but good ol' sinas chinom... And you really don't care for the "victims" or the “treife gelt” one bit, but rather all you want is that Lubavitch should fold and stop being a nuisance with all their crazy inventions like “ahavas Yisroel”, “mivtzoim”, “Amerike is nisht andersh” – and, can we say it?... “Moshiach”...
(BTW: “Us guys” do have "our own" Shulchan Oruch indeed, B''H. I seem to remember, it was considered authoritative by many who are not even “us guys”– open up your mishna b’ruro and look at the small print / footnotes (you’ll need those glasses). You are welcome to borrow my copy and look inside once in a while. But how did you arrive at this formula “Stealing money is OK, v’chu” and what prompted you is completely beyond me. Quite bizarre.)
Anyway, I tried to help - I failed and I now see why. Hatzlocho rabo in fighting the Viet Kong, Mr. President..
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Nov 09, 2009 at 11:59 AM Shimon Peres Says:
“ I never said, implied or meant to imply that the shaliach took the money knowingly, which is exactly why the dimyon to reb elchanan hy"d was fitting. He also initially accepted the money thinking it was kasherer gelt. My point was that as soon as he found out it wasn't he returned it. (obviously easier to do a few days later than after the money has been used to build a building.) Re: You inability to understand what issue I have with the money having been used for good deeds, not being your father or rebbe, my responsibility to educate you is rather limited. Torah will never be built on stolen money. ”
Torah will never be built on stolen money. yea right tell that to all the yeshivos in the Medina
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Nov 09, 2009 at 11:55 AM Reb Boruch Ber Says:
“ Of course they should all give back any treifeh money and refuse it in the future. It is causing mosdos to rot from the inside.
And your getting down and dirty with tagging hich communities you think people are from because they have an opinion with which you disagree proves that a valid point has been raised. Deal with it. Stop responding like a six year old in the playground. ”
You're the child who's not reponding to the question or valid challenge. I didn't see your comments re returning any nmoney when the RS story broke. When Yeshivas CB etc and YU. Etc. Start evenn discussing returning such monies then I'll know its a fair question.
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Nov 09, 2009 at 01:30 PM Moshe M. Lipchitz Says:
The Kaplans are doing great work!!
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Nov 09, 2009 at 04:16 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ You're the child who's not reponding to the question or valid challenge. I didn't see your comments re returning any nmoney when the RS story broke. When Yeshivas CB etc and YU. Etc. Start evenn discussing returning such monies then I'll know its a fair question. ”
What's the question??? Of course the same applies to any mosid built on stolen money. Chassidesh, Litvish, in America, EY, anywhere. If a Litvish yeshiva is trying to build torah on stolen money they will have no more hatzlachah than a shaliach will have doing the same thing.