“ this looks like a reform study hall. very sad. ”

“ A women once wakled into Reb Shach Zet'l and asked him a question in learning, so he responded by asking her; "do you know how to make a good kugle" meaning that that is ™he womens job, to cook, clean, take care of the kids, and look nice for her husband. The mans job is to learn and work. ”

“ Just wondering how they are learning the gmora in sothah that women shoudnt learn, ”

“ Now we're coming full circle. First the men stopped working and started learning full time while the women supported them, now the women are also taking over the learning. Soon the men will spend all day pushing strollers, cooking, and cleaning. ”

“ this looks like a reform study hall. very sad. ”

“ Stupid ! Women are made to be in the kitchen not in shule ”

“ A women once wakled into Reb Shach Zet'l and asked him a question in learning, so he responded by asking her; "do you know how to make a good kugle" meaning that that is ™he womens job, to cook, clean, take care of the kids, and look nice for her husband. The mans job is to learn and work. ”

“ this looks like a reform study hall. very sad. ”

“ A women once wakled into Reb Shach Zet'l and asked him a question in learning, so he responded by asking her; "do you know how to make a good kugle" meaning that that is ™he womens job, to cook, clean, take care of the kids, and look nice for her husband. The mans job is to learn and work. ”

“ One of the major perakim in Bava Metzia discusses hashavas avedah, returning lost objects. How fitting would it be if these holy yiddish neshamos would likewise return themselves back to their proper place; i.e. in the home. The home that only they, the Jewish woman, can create and nurture. ”

“ this looks like a reform study hall. very sad. ”

“ Just wondering how they are learning the gmora in sothah that women shoudnt learn, ”

“ Very sad because a woman might intimidate you with her brilliance in Torah knowledge? This is nothing new to me because in some modern orthodox high schools girls learn gemora the same way boys do. I was very impressed with their knowledge and analytical abilities. The age old myth that women don't have the mental capacity to analyze gemora like men do will be shattered very fast. Men will feel inferior that a wife might know more halacha than he learned in kolel. So they fear these trends. ”

“ Very sad because a woman might intimidate you with her brilliance in Torah knowledge? This is nothing new to me because in some modern orthodox high schools girls learn gemora the same way boys do. I was very impressed with their knowledge and analytical abilities. The age old myth that women don't have the mental capacity to analyze gemora like men do will be shattered very fast. Men will feel inferior that a wife might know more halacha than he learned in kolel. So they fear these trends. ”

“ this looks like a reform study hall. very sad. ”

“ exactly why we should supress it..
could you imagine a home where a woman can not only cook better than her husband but actually learn better? ”

“ Wake up. You're living in 21 century not 9th century ghetto where a woman was bought like property for a prutah. Roles of women have evolved in society where they can vote and succeed in careers and learning. ”

“ look nice? does the husband look nice? rav shach endorses men working and not learning? can he make a kugel? ”

“ Wake up. You're living in 21 century not 9th century ghetto where a woman was bought like property for a prutah. Roles of women have evolved in society where they can vote and succeed in careers and learning. ”

“ Wake up. You're living in 21 century not 9th century ghetto where a woman was bought like property for a prutah. Roles of women have evolved in society where they can vote and succeed in careers and learning. ”

“ Women MUST learn Baba Metziah. Who is going to help their son chazer Aylu Metzios or Ha Mafkid? It ain't sure gonna be the dad shtyging in kollel - bitul torah for him. It will be the mother - so she better know parts of Boba Metziah!! After making the kugel, I need to teach two of my sons those gemorahs and I sure wish I was taught them in Bais Yaakov. ”

“ Let me start off by saying that I would not want my wife or daughters learning like this. However, my bracha to myself is that should be the worst things they ever do!! Instead of focusing on the "issur of women learning" and whether not women should be learning, let's focus on the picture of these tzniusly-dressed girls learning Torah. Even if if they "shouldn't be learning," how happy should we be that they are not engaging in znus on their free time! There are so many girls from Bais Yaacov, etc. that do one thing when they are in school and when the day is over they live a different life. How great is it that even when these girls have no obligation to learn, they go and try to immerse in Hashem's Torah while they could be doing nothing worthwhile!! Whether or not anyone believes in women learning, we should see the good in their actions and focus on the real "time-wasting" problems that cause much greater harm in our community. ”

“ This whole idea is completly against what G-d wants and stinks of yeshus and gaiva. It's a waste of time. It's not tznua and it's not their avoda. Men are incapable of doing many things that women are able to do - spiritually and biologically. It's so sad that so many foreign elements such as this have come into Judaism trying to replace it (including but not limited to: Zionism, Feminism, Socialism, "the Lubuvitcher Rebbe shlita is Moshiach-ism" and "Frumism", e.g. not being able to sit next to one's own wife on the bus). I hope these modern day avodah zoras stay the exception and don't become the norm, although certain konaiyim in EY, Chabad and many "modern Orthodox" groups (whatever that means) have already "converted" to islam, x-tianity and the conservative movement, repectively. ”

“ what happened to miss bruriah and to rashi's daughters wearing tefillin?

where exactly does it say girls are forbidden to learn torah?

”

“ This whole idea is completly against what G-d wants and stinks of yeshus and gaiva. It's a waste of time. It's not tznua and it's not their avoda. Men are incapable of doing many things that women are able to do - spiritually and biologically. It's so sad that so many foreign elements such as this have come into Judaism trying to replace it (including but not limited to: Zionism, Feminism, Socialism, "the Lubuvitcher Rebbe shlita is Moshiach-ism" and "Frumism", e.g. not being able to sit next to one's own wife on the bus). I hope these modern day avodah zoras stay the exception and don't become the norm, although certain konaiyim in EY, Chabad and many "modern Orthodox" groups (whatever that means) have already "converted" to islam, x-tianity and the conservative movement, repectively. ”

“ How stupid can u be for not realizing that this is the reason for the rising divorce rate in the 21st CENTURY. Its the wrong thing to do! Who cares about the 21st century! ”

“ It sure is less expensive than shopping. This is a good thing. ”

“ Can someone explain why Modern Orthodox or Religious Zionist women who learn Torah are such a threat to Charedi men? Why does it strike such a nerve? ”

“ I can't wait to hear a chubarah on R' Elchanan in the sugya of tukfah cohen. ”

“ Can someone explain why Modern Orthodox or Religious Zionist women who learn Torah are such a threat to Charedi men? Why does it strike such a nerve? ”

“ there is nothing wrong with a little learning. these are post high school - pre marriage girls. you dont like it thats your problem. it doesnt make them any less frum or non orthodox or righteous. seriously, the ignorance in this comment thread is astounding. ”

“ "where exactly does it say girls are forbidden to learn torah?"

The answer is NOWHERE. The efforts by some of the men who posted comments above which distort daas torah and incorrectly cite some yiddeshe verts as if these men new what they were talking about is pitiful. Women certainly are allowed to learn ANYTHING. The only issue under halacha is what they may ber required to learn (i.e. which mitzvot and learning is required for men and is discretionary for women).
”

“ i think the reason is obvious...
not to mention how would the charedi women react if they saw this trend as progressing?
could you imagine a charedi man actually making his own kugel?
(actually the thought of it made me burst out laughing) ”

“ I wonder how you learned it, anyobe who understood the gemara, sees that the gemara meant the opposite! The gemara says the shouldn't learn, so they shouldn't know that merit can save from Sotah and then become a Sotah, but today all girls are tought that they can be saved with merit anyways, so they actually should learn!
Either way, it is one opinion only in the Gemara ”

“ I knew it wouldn't take long until they invoke Beruria. The fact that you know ONE Tanna's wife's name out of thousands should tell you something..... but no, let's make the exception the rule. ”

“ Very sad because a woman might intimidate you with her brilliance in Torah knowledge? This is nothing new to me because in some modern orthodox high schools girls learn gemora the same way boys do. I was very impressed with their knowledge and analytical abilities. The age old myth that women don't have the mental capacity to analyze gemora like men do will be shattered very fast. Men will feel inferior that a wife might know more halacha than he learned in kolel. So they fear these trends. ”

“ The gemarah states that a man can divorce his wife if she gets ugly, so hope you got your answer! ”

“ i think the reason is obvious...
not to mention how would the charedi women react if they saw this trend as progressing?
could you imagine a charedi man actually making his own kugel?
(actually the thought of it made me burst out laughing) ”

“ This whole idea is completly against what G-d wants and stinks of yeshus and gaiva. It's a waste of time. It's not tznua and it's not their avoda. Men are incapable of doing many things that women are able to do - spiritually and biologically. It's so sad that so many foreign elements such as this have come into Judaism trying to replace it (including but not limited to: Zionism, Feminism, Socialism, "the Lubuvitcher Rebbe shlita is Moshiach-ism" and "Frumism", e.g. not being able to sit next to one's own wife on the bus). I hope these modern day avodah zoras stay the exception and don't become the norm, although certain konaiyim in EY, Chabad and many "modern Orthodox" groups (whatever that means) have already "converted" to islam, x-tianity and the conservative movement, repectively. ”

“ Let me start off by saying that I would not want my wife or daughters learning like this. However, my bracha to myself is that should be the worst things they ever do!! Instead of focusing on the "issur of women learning" and whether not women should be learning, let's focus on the picture of these tzniusly-dressed girls learning Torah. Even if if they "shouldn't be learning," how happy should we be that they are not engaging in znus on their free time! There are so many girls from Bais Yaacov, etc. that do one thing when they are in school and when the day is over they live a different life. How great is it that even when these girls have no obligation to learn, they go and try to immerse in Hashem's Torah while they could be doing nothing worthwhile!! Whether or not anyone believes in women learning, we should see the good in their actions and focus on the real "time-wasting" problems that cause much greater harm in our community. ”

“ im pretty sure that the reform movement started the same way. just a little change here, and a little change there. funny thing is, if the reason behind this is so that ladies can paskun for ladies, whats the need? i dont hear rabbonim complaining that their workload is to much since they have ladies coming to ask questions. if so then whats the need for these programs? nobody said a lady shouldnt learn but this is pushing it. ”

“ After 120 years of a mans life, hashem will ask if he spent his time in this world learning torah. If not hashem will ask him why not. But these women will be asked why have you spent your time on something which is not for you its a boosha will the women start to ware pants or daven for the amud or become esrog soichrim? I think its shreclech are these women neturai karta by any chance? soon they will put on a reekel and a shtrimel i just hope im wrong also i think instead of learning baba metzia they should learn baba maysa ”

“ After 120 years of a mans life, hashem will ask if he spent his time in this world learning torah. If not hashem will ask him why not. But these women will be asked why have you spent your time on something which is not for you its a boosha will the women start to ware pants or daven for the amud or become esrog soichrim? I think its shreclech are these women neturai karta by any chance? soon they will put on a reekel and a shtrimel i just hope im wrong also i think instead of learning baba metzia they should learn baba maysa ”

“ One more comments:

IF ONLY it could be that women learning Gemara was the biggest problem faced by the Orthodox community!

Seriously, if anyone is spending serious time combating this "plague", then they either live in a cave or have a very poor grasp of priorities. ”

“ One of the major perakim in Bava Metzia discusses hashavas avedah, returning lost objects. How fitting would it be if these holy yiddish neshamos would likewise return themselves back to their proper place; i.e. in the home. The home that only they, the Jewish woman, can create and nurture. ”

“ This whole idea is completly against what G-d wants and stinks of yeshus and gaiva. It's a waste of time. It's not tznua and it's not their avoda. Men are incapable of doing many things that women are able to do - spiritually and biologically. It's so sad that so many foreign elements such as this have come into Judaism trying to replace it (including but not limited to: Zionism, Feminism, Socialism, "the Lubuvitcher Rebbe shlita is Moshiach-ism" and "Frumism", e.g. not being able to sit next to one's own wife on the bus). I hope these modern day avodah zoras stay the exception and don't become the norm, although certain konaiyim in EY, Chabad and many "modern Orthodox" groups (whatever that means) have already "converted" to islam, x-tianity and the conservative movement, repectively. ”

“ its perfectly fine for women to study gemarah. there are so many women going off the derech in monroe, monsey, wiliamsburg and especially crown heights. Halevai, they should learn gemarah instead of going to bars and clubs, wearing untniusdik clothing etc. ”

“ exactly why we should supress it..
could you imagine a home where a woman can not only cook better than her husband but actually learn better? ”

“ This whole idea is completly against what G-d wants and stinks of yeshus and gaiva. It's a waste of time. It's not tznua and it's not their avoda. Men are incapable of doing many things that women are able to do - spiritually and biologically. It's so sad that so many foreign elements such as this have come into Judaism trying to replace it (including but not limited to: Zionism, Feminism, Socialism, "the Lubuvitcher Rebbe shlita is Moshiach-ism" and "Frumism", e.g. not being able to sit next to one's own wife on the bus). I hope these modern day avodah zoras stay the exception and don't become the norm, although certain konaiyim in EY, Chabad and many "modern Orthodox" groups (whatever that means) have already "converted" to islam, x-tianity and the conservative movement, repectively. ”

“ A women once wakled into Reb Shach Zet'l and asked him a question in learning, so he responded by asking her; "do you know how to make a good kugle" meaning that that is ™he womens job, to cook, clean, take care of the kids, and look nice for her husband. The mans job is to learn and work. ”

“ What about the woman who leave their babys at home at 7:30AM to go to work and return at 6:00PM, allthewhile the spanish baby sitters watch the babies speaking to them and singing to them in spanish. why dont u critisize them woman? ”

“ Women learning gemarah is the reason for rising divorce in the 21st century??? What cloud are you on. ”

“ here you go quoting??? the gemara in Sota when in fact it says nothing about a woman learning, its says "Kol hamelamed es bito Torah" - nothing about if she wants to learn by herself.

I believe it was Rav Sholom Schwadron who said his mother knew Shas. But I may be mistaken.

There have always been individual women who were learned (Rashi's daughters, for example) - there was one Rebbetzin who gave shiur from behind a mechitza. Sorry, I don't have all the sources handy.

What has changed is this. Sara Schenirer started the Bais Yaakov movement with the approval of the gedolim - the Chofetz Chaim and many choshuva rebbes as well. The girls were going to secular school and what the Mama taught them was not keeping them interested in Yiddishkeit.

Now that many girls are secularly educated beyond the bachelor's level, many have a need for even more depth in their Jewish studies. While this could be in hashkafa etc some find it in Gemara. Their poskim might not be yours, but they do have Rabbonim on whom they rely.

In any case, as long as nobody asks you to enroll your daughter in this program, what purpose does your criticism serve? ”

“ what happened to miss bruriah and to rashi's daughters wearing tefillin?

where exactly does it say girls are forbidden to learn torah?

”

“ Sarah Schenirer never taught her students Mishnah and Gemara. ”

“ Re: Sarah Schnerer, with very few notable exceptions, the aforementioned Chafetz Chaim being one, the great majority of Rabonim at the time were against her. Organized education of Jewish girls was at least as radical an idea in her times as girls learning gemarah is today ”

“ From Rav Moshe Feinstein:
To Rav Elya Svei, Shlita, Rosh Yeshiva of Philadelphia,
Regarding the issue that there are some girls schools that are called Bais Yaakovs and the like, where the administration and the teachers of the school want to teach the girls Mishnayos: Behold, in the Rambam Talmud Torah 1:13 he rules like R. Eliezer in Sotah 20a, that you may not teach girls Torah. Yet he distinguishes between Torah Shebal Peh, which, if you teach to girls is as if you taught them Tiflus, whereas Torah Shebiksav is not as if you taught them Tiflus, but L'Chatchilah you shouldn't teach it to them anyway. In any case, Mishnayos, which is Torah Shebal Peh, Chazal commanded us not to teach to girls, and if you do, it is as if you taught them Tiflus. Therefore, you should prevent them from doing this [teaching Mishnayos], with the exception of Pirkei Avos, which, because it discusses Mussar and good Midos, you may teach it to them with explanations, in order to awaken them to Ahavas HaTorah and good Midos, but not any other Mesechta. And because this issue is simple, I will end here with a blessing that you may spread Torah and Yiras Shamayim to the world.
Your friend,
Moshe Feinstein ”

“ U missed the boat! It has to to the fact that woman are telling there husbands halachicly what they should and shouldn't do! To daven with minyan etc... women think they are just as equal as men. And in our jewish history women are a piller in the house hold but not the decision makers. But it became a new thing of women's rights as equal rights, and that's what screws up marriages! These seminars not to mention names are the ONES AT FALT FOR THE SHIDDUCH CRISES! They make the girls the Rabbi of the house and it pisses off 99 percent of the guys! ”

“ Re: Sarah Schnerer, with very few notable exceptions, the aforementioned Chafetz Chaim being one, the great majority of Rabonim at the time were against her. Organized education of Jewish girls was at least as radical an idea in her times as girls learning gemarah is today ”

“ U missed the boat! It has to to the fact that woman are telling there husbands halachicly what they should and shouldn't do! To daven with minyan etc... women think they are just as equal as men. And in our jewish history women are a piller in the house hold but not the decision makers. But it became a new thing of women's rights as equal rights, and that's what screws up marriages! These seminars not to mention names are the ONES AT FALT FOR THE SHIDDUCH CRISES! They make the girls the Rabbi of the house and it pisses off 99 percent of the guys! ”

“ Re: Sarah Schnerer, with very few notable exceptions, the aforementioned Chafetz Chaim being one, the great majority of Rabonim at the time were against her. Organized education of Jewish girls was at least as radical an idea in her times as girls learning gemarah is today ”

“ Whether you want to believe it or not, women make halachic decisions at home all the time. Do you eat what your wife/mother cooks? Who is the mashgichah? There isn't a man sitting in the kitchen going over all the purchases; it's the woman of the house. Who is the first person to teach a child Torah? The child's mother, as its says in the Haggadah, "At Ptach Lo" -- not "Atah", but "At", feminine. And since men feel that they have to be learning 24x7, who's helping out the kids (boys and girls) with their homework? Mommy. And Mommy needs to know what the kids are learning in order to help. So before you go blaming the equal rights movement (which, by the way, more or less petered out in the 70's), open your eyes & see what is going on & has been going on for generations at home.
”

“ Whether you want to believe it or not, women make halachic decisions at home all the time. Do you eat what your wife/mother cooks? Who is the mashgichah? There isn't a man sitting in the kitchen going over all the purchases; it's the woman of the house. Who is the first person to teach a child Torah? The child's mother, as its says in the Haggadah, "At Ptach Lo" -- not "Atah", but "At", feminine. And since men feel that they have to be learning 24x7, who's helping out the kids (boys and girls) with their homework? Mommy. And Mommy needs to know what the kids are learning in order to help. So before you go blaming the equal rights movement (which, by the way, more or less petered out in the 70's), open your eyes & see what is going on & has been going on for generations at home.
”

“ I think the Chofetz chaim had the foresight to see that it was a good thing. Plus she went to get permission from Gedolim. Who is sanctioning these girls learning talmud. Which halachic authorities were consulted? ”

“ I think the Chofetz chaim had the foresight to see that it was a good thing. Plus she went to get permission from Gedolim. Who is sanctioning these girls learning talmud. Which halachic authorities were consulted? ”

“ Who said they don't have the ability? The Gemara they are learning tells them a women who learns Gemara is learning pritzus. How do they gloss over that one? ”

“ Just wondering how they are learning the gmora in sothah that women shoudnt learn, ”

“ Where does it say that Rashi's daughter wore tefilin???

$1,000 cash reward to the person who can find basis for this legend. ”

“ Who said they don't have the ability? The Gemara they are learning tells them a women who learns Gemara is learning pritzus. How do they gloss over that one? ”

“ To #19 comment "The age old myth that women don't have the mental capacity to analyze gemora like men do will be shattered very fast"
Dear #19 the gemara says this about women, you're either a am haaretz or a apikoras, Shulchan Aruch and the Rambam paskin, that the fact that women don't have or use the same analytical reasonings and tools as men as the reason why the gmara says " a man who teaches his daughters Torah is like teaching her tiflus" go figure. ”

“ I'd like 2 know how do they explain the gemura, "nushim daton kalos" ? ”

“ After observing many responses and knowing how the frum world works, my conclusion is that the fear of women in Torah learning is based on general fear of women that is indoctrinated to boys from days they enter first class in Yeshivas.
In their small world, a woman is some scary creature that can corrupt their souls, so they fear them in news papers, in billboards, on the street, in the elevator, in the bus, in the store, in the office and even at home at most of the times.
Yeshivas teach you that a wife must listen to you, obey your words and leadership at home, work hard to support her husband, and at the same time raise kids, while the husband sits and learns and learns and learns.

Now come along these few women who are threatening the status quoe thinking which is always scarry, just like it is still scary for many people that Obama is the president. But, this fear is no different when women were allowed to work in the 19th century, then came the women's right to vote in political discourse, and most men dreaded that idea as well. First women doctors struggled to gain confidence from male patients who thought women were not made for that, but only to bake cake and soup. ”

“ How are these women going to get shiddach? Frum men would be intimidated by them. ”

“ I think the Chofetz chaim had the foresight to see that it was a good thing. Plus she went to get permission from Gedolim. Who is sanctioning these girls learning talmud. Which halachic authorities were consulted? ”

“ I think the Chofetz chaim had the foresight to see that it was a good thing. Plus she went to get permission from Gedolim. Who is sanctioning these girls learning talmud. Which halachic authorities were consulted? ”

“ to all you bashers. whats better, women SHOPPING!!!! When women learn Torah, they get a sense of meaning in life and make a difference. Not just popping out kids and talking lashon hara. These women learning are going to bring moshiach. If williamsburg women learnt torah, there wouldn't be so much hidden things that are going on that are discusting to the meaning of "chassidic". Kol hakovod girls, learn, because the ones against you are not learned and are jealous. ”

“ After observing many responses and knowing how the frum world works, my conclusion is that the fear of women in Torah learning is based on general fear of women that is indoctrinated to boys from days they enter first class in Yeshivas.
In their small world, a woman is some scary creature that can corrupt their souls, so they fear them in news papers, in billboards, on the street, in the elevator, in the bus, in the store, in the office and even at home at most of the times.
Yeshivas teach you that a wife must listen to you, obey your words and leadership at home, work hard to support her husband, and at the same time raise kids, while the husband sits and learns and learns and learns.

Now come along these few women who are threatening the status quoe thinking which is always scarry, just like it is still scary for many people that Obama is the president. But, this fear is no different when women were allowed to work in the 19th century, then came the women's right to vote in political discourse, and most men dreaded that idea as well. First women doctors struggled to gain confidence from male patients who thought women were not made for that, but only to bake cake and soup. ”

“ Can someone explain why Modern Orthodox or Religious Zionist women who learn Torah are such a threat to Charedi men? Why does it strike such a nerve? ”

“ What about the woman who leave their babys at home at 7:30AM to go to work and return at 6:00PM, allthewhile the spanish baby sitters watch the babies speaking to them and singing to them in spanish. why dont u critisize them woman? ”

“ Sarah Schenirer never taught her students Mishnah and Gemara. ”

“ Sarah Schenirer never taught her students Mishnah and Gemara. ”

“ After observing many responses and knowing how the frum world works, my conclusion is that the fear of women in Torah learning is based on general fear of women that is indoctrinated to boys from days they enter first class in Yeshivas.
In their small world, a woman is some scary creature that can corrupt their souls, so they fear them in news papers, in billboards, on the street, in the elevator, in the bus, in the store, in the office and even at home at most of the times.
Yeshivas teach you that a wife must listen to you, obey your words and leadership at home, work hard to support her husband, and at the same time raise kids, while the husband sits and learns and learns and learns.

Now come along these few women who are threatening the status quoe thinking which is always scarry, just like it is still scary for many people that Obama is the president. But, this fear is no different when women were allowed to work in the 19th century, then came the women's right to vote in political discourse, and most men dreaded that idea as well. First women doctors struggled to gain confidence from male patients who thought women were not made for that, but only to bake cake and soup. ”

“ The Lubavitcher Rebbe said clearly to a number of Gedolim that girls have to learn gemorrah nowadays...when reb. sara schnerer opened bais yaakov critics also tried to invoke the gemorrah sotah but the gedolim soon realized times have changed. What is not tznius is to talk about girls or females in a negative light or to talk about them and look at their pictures on websites...let them learn and let us all be better for it...aishet chayil ateret baalah ”

“ I'd like 2 know how do they explain the gemura, "nushim daton kalos" ? ”

“ Sarah Schenirer never taught her students Mishnah and Gemara. ”

“ Re: Sarah Schnerer, with very few notable exceptions, the aforementioned Chafetz Chaim being one, the great majority of Rabonim at the time were against her. Organized education of Jewish girls was at least as radical an idea in her times as girls learning gemarah is today ”

“ I would like to know how you explain it? I know that in Yeshivas that I learned in, nobody was able to explain it. ”

“ I think we're all missing the point. The sector involved is people, that do not listen to Rabbonim in many areas, or search to find a Rabbi which will give them some heter for their ideas. It's not just the geomora issue. It is girls going to the army, wearing pants, single motherhood etc. This group is beyond doubt the biggest threat to orthodox Jewry today. It is a modern form of Reform Jews. ”

“ Isn't it funny that a post made a bit earlier, about battered charedi women going to an organization that's been around for YEARS, garners virtually no comments. None. No one condemning the abusers of women. No snide comments about the geulah, no proclamative generalizations about the Problems Of Judaism Today. Nothing. Silence.

Yet this, this small, innocent act of women learning Torah has the community furious. Are they hurting anyone? Have they advocated that women go off the derech? Have they decided to remain single forever? No. They are smart. That's all. That's what is so frightening, I guess. Just smart, dedicated women, who are tired of being shut out of their own religion.

To all of you conflating reform and conservative with this, I beg to differ. This is a harmless act, not hurting anyone (I must stress this to differentiate this from other recent chumrahs), and stems from women wanting to be closer to Hashem. Reform and conservative practices stem from people wanting to distance themselves from Torah laws. Please curb your inflammatory rhetoric, because it just reflects poorly on yourself. ”

“ Rabbi Avigdor Miller said that it means that women are more easily swayed by emotional arguments than men. They are no less intelligent.

Since making halachic decisions often requires taking a strong stand, and not being swayed by emotional arguments or other means of persuasion, this would be an issue in accepting their torah decisions.\\

It is well known that when Al Gore openly displayed affection for his wife when he was running for office, this swayed a tremendous number of women towards him as they cast aside any other valid policy decisions. This was widely discussed in the news media. ”

“ I would like to know how you explain it? I know that in Yeshivas that I learned in, nobody was able to explain it. ”

“ The gemarah states that a man can divorce his wife if she gets ugly, so hope you got your answer! ”

“ After observing many responses and knowing how the frum world works, my conclusion is that the fear of women in Torah learning is based on general fear of women that is indoctrinated to boys from days they enter first class in Yeshivas.
In their small world, a woman is some scary creature that can corrupt their souls, so they fear them in news papers, in billboards, on the street, in the elevator, in the bus, in the store, in the office and even at home at most of the times.
Yeshivas teach you that a wife must listen to you, obey your words and leadership at home, work hard to support her husband, and at the same time raise kids, while the husband sits and learns and learns and learns.

Now come along these few women who are threatening the status quoe thinking which is always scarry, just like it is still scary for many people that Obama is the president. But, this fear is no different when women were allowed to work in the 19th century, then came the women's right to vote in political discourse, and most men dreaded that idea as well. First women doctors struggled to gain confidence from male patients who thought women were not made for that, but only to bake cake and soup. ”

“ This whole idea is completly against what G-d wants and stinks of yeshus and gaiva. It's a waste of time. It's not tznua and it's not their avoda. Men are incapable of doing many things that women are able to do - spiritually and biologically. It's so sad that so many foreign elements such as this have come into Judaism trying to replace it (including but not limited to: Zionism, Feminism, Socialism, "the Lubuvitcher Rebbe shlita is Moshiach-ism" and "Frumism", e.g. not being able to sit next to one's own wife on the bus). I hope these modern day avodah zoras stay the exception and don't become the norm, although certain konaiyim in EY, Chabad and many "modern Orthodox" groups (whatever that means) have already "converted" to islam, x-tianity and the conservative movement, repectively. ”

“ This comment is truck load of pop sociological nonsense with an anti Orthodox bias that has no basis in fact. It is very apt that he brings in fear of his idol Obama as a parallel to his distorted view.

There are clear sources in Chazal that teaching torah to women is improper. Col hamelamed es bito torah, ceilu melamda tiflus. This is the position of Torah Shebaal peh that the majority of the sincere Orthodox world follows. Women are allowed to learn for themselves but men are not supposed to teach them. They must learn the laws that pertain to them.

Hashem has indicated a different and very significant role for women. They can't be tied down to the gemara like one needs to be in order to really grow in Torah. They must be free to develop the next generation of our people and provide them with the idealism and skills necessary for a life of exalted accomplishment. Women have been designed by Hashem to be most happy in this role. The radical feminists who have warped the gender roles in general have caused much harm and unhappiness.

”

“ I'd like 2 know how do they explain the gemura, "nushim daton kalos" ? ”

“ i think you err...........
i never knew reforms even had study halls ”

“ I think that it's a little presumptive of someone to pretend that they know how (and for what) "women were designed by Hashem". And I believe that I will leave it up to each of the women in my life to decide how they are "most happy"--rather than take the assurance of an anonymous poster on the internet. As far as sources in Chazal, I beleive that I will go with the shita of Rav Soloveitchik, who, since he lived in times close to our own, had a clearer understanding of today's needs. ”

“ Rav Soloveichik's opinion is by far the minority opinion in this issue among Torah leaders. ”

“ reform do have study halls, they just don't learn gemara. they learn counseling, piblic speaking and (I'm not kidding about this) the "jewishness" of the xtian bible. ”

“ As oe who has raised a housefull of daughters, bli ayin horah, as well as a lone kaddish-zogger, I can tell you that boys and girls do have entirely different thought processes. I believe what the gemara means is that becoming a kala is all girls think about from the time they are three years old. ”

“ “ As oe who has raised a housefull of daughters, bli ayin horah, as well as a lone kaddish-zogger, I can tell you that boys and girls do have entirely different thought processes. I believe what the gemara means is that becoming a kala is all girls think about from the time they are three years old. ”

Let me introduce you to a concept: It's called "Anecdotal is not evidence." Your personal experience with three women isn't indicative of every woman in the world. Sorry. ”

“ What about the women who leave their babies at home at 9:00AM to go to shop and and meet their friends for lunch to plan the next Chinese auction, return at 3:00PM, allthewhile their Spanish baby sitters watch the babies speaking to them and singing to them in Spanish. What about those women?” ”

“ Rav Soloveichik's opinion is by far the minority opinion in this issue among Torah leaders. ”

“ You're right, but what does this have to do with women learning gemorah? It's definetly not a chiyuv for them to learn torah she baal peh, so why aren't they doing chessed or other mitzvos that they do have a chiyuv to do? Don't tell me noone needs chessed anymore! This is just another women's lib idea kenneged our Chazal! ”

“ Women MUST learn Baba Metziah. Who is going to help their son chazer Aylu Metzios or Ha Mafkid? It sure ain't gonna be my hubby who is shtyging in kollel - bitul torah for him. It will be the mother - me, after I get home from work! It is VERY IMPORTANT that all mothers know parts of Boba Metziah!!

After making the kugel, I need to teach two of my sons those gemorahs - it's their homework to chazer, and they often need help. Bless Art Scroll, but I sure wish I was taught Boba Metziah in Bais Yaakov.

Indeed, like following a kugel recipe, I follow the Art Scroll, but it doesn't always come out right.

”

“ Women MUST learn Baba Metziah. Who is going to help their son chazer Aylu Metzios or Ha Mafkid? It ain't sure gonna be the dad shtyging in kollel - bitul torah for him. It will be the mother - so she better know parts of Boba Metziah!! After making the kugel, I need to teach two of my sons those gemorahs and I sure wish I was taught them in Bais Yaakov. ”

“ i wonder
what does it mean when they say "binah yeseirah nintah b'isha"

what does she have extra

and what is the purpose of this ”

“ You must be being cynical. All the youngerleit that I know in Lakewood learn with their sons. It usually the Baal Habuss that doesn't have time. If you are serious (which I doubt) -time for a new hubby. Women have no chiyuv to learn gemorrah, but they have a chiyuv to do other mitzvos. Who gave them a right to stop doing the other mitzvos to spend time learning things that they don't have to? There is a story in the gemorrah that a Tanah wanted to learn other things, but they told him if you find a time that is not day or night than you can learn these other things -because you're supposed to learn torah day & night! Women aren't equal to men- we frum Jews don't believe in women's lib. Women have their path in Avodas Hashem and men have another. They are both not supposed to be on the same path. The reform movement started with just changing a little in yiddishkeit. B'zecus Noshim Tzidkonius Assidim L'goel. Let them do what my Bubbe and I'm sure their Bubbe's did all day - like collect tzedakah, read Tzeneh oo'rennah and say Tehillim and help out with Maycim, if their children are already grown and if they don't need to work to help support the family! ”