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Mendota Heights, MN - Conservative Rabbi Of Hekhsher Tzedek Releases Statement To Rubashkin Conviction

Published on: November 13, 2009 02:55 PM
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Rabbi Morris Allen Of Magen TzdekRabbi Morris Allen Of Magen Tzdek

Mendota Heights, MN - The news out of Sioux Falls, SD, yesterday, that Sholom Rubashkin was convicted on 86 out of 91 counts of fraud in the state’s investigation into criminal activity within the Agriprocessor’s meat processing facility in Postville, Iowa, delivers both justice and a heavy heart to those of us who champion the cause of ethical kashrut.

The investigation into Agriprocessors has unfolded in slow-motion. First there were allegations of business fraud and worker abuse, then investigations, then negotiations – all with ample opportunity for the Rubashkin family to cooperate and self-correct—then arrogant disregard for the law, shocking revelations, indictments, a plethora of press attention, the riveting scandal of the federal raid in May of 2008, the largest scale of its kind in US history…and finally the verdict of guilty on the majority of counts of business fraud in yesterday’s trial.

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It is important to note that the trial on charges of worker abuse is not even underway. The heartbreaking stories that will emerge in the course of this trial will be as cringe-worthy as they are criminal.

As the founders of Magen Tzedek, we were on the ground in Postville from the virtual start of this tragic drama in the summer of 2006, bearing witness to the terrible worker conditions and business practices at the nation’s largest manufacturer of kosher meat and poultry, trying to steer the Rubashkin family towards taking responsibility and correcting their mistakes, acting in accordance with the biblical injunction – “hokhaich tokhiach et amitecha” – “rebuke your kinsman,” that is, do not stand idly by while one of your brethren commits a grievous wrongdoing.

Although the miscarriage of kashrut at Agriprocessors was not the catalyst for the creation of Magen Tzedek, it provided an urgent context and need for us to develop our initiative, proclaiming publicly our belief that keeping kosher is inextricably linked to leading a life of ethical integrity.

There are tragedies within tragedies in the story of the fall of the house of Rubashkin, the worst of which might be the deaf ear of the Rubashkin family turned towards those who tried to prevent the collapse. We were at the epicenter of those who repeatedly reached out to the family. Yet as the investigation and trial wore on, it became clear that the deafness was a direct result of the Rubashkin family’s flagrant disregard for the law and ethical behavior.

There is neither joy nor a sense of schadenfreude in yesterday’s conviction. Those of us who toil in the field of tikkun olam are downright demoralized by this highly preventable outcome. This story could have ended very differently. Had the Rubashkin family done a sincere teshuva – heeding, for instance, the three-pronged course of action we delivered to them in the summer of 2006—they would now be the heroes of the kosher world instead of its villains.

Given the sad outcome of this situation, we rededicate ourselves to the birthing of our Magen Tzedek seal of ethical certification, a process that has been long and arduous but more relevant with each passing day.
After thousands of hours of meetings, deliberations, drafts of our working guidelines and compliance procedures, we are getting closer. The soul and future of kashrut depends on the development of Magen Tzedek as an actual seal on kosher food products, indicating that it has been produced in accordance with high ethical standards for employee wages and benefits, health and safety, animal welfare, corporate transparency and environmental impact. What has emerged in the course of the development of this product is that Magen Tzedek is more than just a new certification for kosher food—it is a worldwide awareness built upon the belief that we are how and what we eat.

Achieving Magen Tzedek is our ascent to Sinai, fraught with challenge and yet possessed of a promise. Like the Law that Moses receives at the summit of the mountain, Magen Tzedek will give Jews and all people of conscience a road map towards leading lives of ethical integrity through the portal of keeping kosher.

The Hekhsher Tzedek Commission

Rabbi Morris J. Allen, Project Director


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Read Comments (93)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:05 PM Ouch Says:

What a horrible attitude. Ouch.

There is no tzedek in building your own business on the back of another Jew's suffering.
There is no tzedek in pointing the finger and saying 'I told you so'.
There is no tzedek of someone who breaks the Torah and tells others that they 'should do teshuva'.

If there is any wisdom, try 'syag l'chochma shtika'.

V'Hashem Yerachem al kol amo Beit Yisrael.

2

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:00 PM Abba esq. Says:

What does their so called hechsher look? I will never eat something with that on it ,even with 20 other hecherim

3

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:12 PM Anonymous Says:

why is vosizneias printing such letters? some of what is written here borders on outright kfira and i'm only writing "borders on" because i'm not an expert on such issues vosizneias should do what is right and remove this letter

4

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Text like this always smacks of pandering to goyim. Our house is very shaky right now and whether or not you believe Rubashkin is guilty or innocent, all the yidden in the press doing perp walks are huge chillul Hashems. Along time ago, we were a beaken, now we sit here shame faced. Everyone must do their part to maintain the derech eretz of their dalet amos, teach it to there children and show ourselves what our nation should be.

5

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:12 PM Anonymous Says:

What's his email and #, it also says u should keep Shabbos and kosher, family purity. Who the hell is this so called rabbi talking to?

6

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:22 PM Anonymous Says:

How are Janitors and other cleaning personal in conservative temples paid & treated?.

To Mr. Morris Allen Clean your own house first.

7

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:16 PM Anonymous Says:

"Like the Law that Moses receives at the summit of the mountain,"
Morris what about the other 613 "Laws Moses" that are breached and apeased by your ilk

8

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:15 PM Heartbreaking Says:

May Hashem give you a refuah shleimah Bkorov,,, and I hope He never uses Midas Hadin on you the way you did on the Rubashkin family,, Yidden zeinen benay Rachmonim,, clearly you are not. Does that call your jewishness into question???? You call the stories that will emerge heartbreaking?? Do u realize that ur sinas chinam is what is causing us yidden to stay in Golus??? Rubashkin is being made a kapara by the liberal agenda,, and you the fool that you are, are too stupid to see it,, so you join in.. I pity you,,

9

 Nov 13, 2009 at 04:13 PM jdaism Says:

Rabbi Rubashkin was judged by a court on this world that you and your like caused but you and your type will have to answer to a greater court and Judge desicrating the shabbos and all Gods comandments that you and the conservative and Reform have decided aren't important anymore

10

 Nov 13, 2009 at 04:00 PM Anonymous Says:

As Jews, we are taught that we can accept Mussar from anyone- so why is it so difficult to look past the fact that this is coming from a conservative Rabbi, and accept the message. Rubashkin did wrong and was found guilty. Ive seen more posts here trying to make excuses as to why hes really innocent, got an unfair trial, etc. We live in America, where there are rules that govern us. Each one of us has an obligation to live by those rules, or face the consequences, and unfortanutely for Rubashkin, thats exactly what happened here.
And as far as those who say they would never eat from this hashgacha, lets not forget the scandals in the past few years, not with Conservative hashgachas, but with Glatt and Chasidic ones.

11

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Its bad form to kick a dead dog.

12

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:45 PM Misa Meshuna Says:

there was a big organization back in the thirty s and forty's that cared more for the animals than the people.It is very befitting of a new organization to dance their way to popularity on the blood of a fellow jew. you should be ashamed of yourself.

13

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:43 PM MENDY Says:

How are the employees of the meat and chicken packing plants that provide most of the meat and chicken consumed by members of this "rabbi's" conservative movement treated? Sadly most of the "conservative" Jews are not buying kosher meat.

14

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:34 PM Anonymous Says:

i was nautious reading this.

15

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:31 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Heartbreaking Says:

May Hashem give you a refuah shleimah Bkorov,,, and I hope He never uses Midas Hadin on you the way you did on the Rubashkin family,, Yidden zeinen benay Rachmonim,, clearly you are not. Does that call your jewishness into question???? You call the stories that will emerge heartbreaking?? Do u realize that ur sinas chinam is what is causing us yidden to stay in Golus??? Rubashkin is being made a kapara by the liberal agenda,, and you the fool that you are, are too stupid to see it,, so you join in.. I pity you,,

Rachmonis does not involve looking away when your indicted in a federl court and create a chilul hashem with your frum appearance. How about rachmonis on klal yisroel and considering the effect this has

16

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:30 PM formally Says:

Bashing rubashkin is not bashing yiddin, it is just bashing a yid who did bad things.

Sorry that many of you cannot see that difference.

Another words if Rubashkin would have ran his plant and operation like empire none of this would have happened

17

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Ouch Says:

What a horrible attitude. Ouch.

There is no tzedek in building your own business on the back of another Jew's suffering.
There is no tzedek in pointing the finger and saying 'I told you so'.
There is no tzedek of someone who breaks the Torah and tells others that they 'should do teshuva'.

If there is any wisdom, try 'syag l'chochma shtika'.

V'Hashem Yerachem al kol amo Beit Yisrael.

EXCELLENTLY STATED. (couldn't have said it better, myself.)
gut shabbos

18

 Nov 13, 2009 at 03:26 PM Loshon Hora Says:

This Choitei Umachtie calling himself a tzadik [tzedek] is just proving that the concervative movement are from the Airev Rav, they are not rachmonim bayshonim or gomlei chasodim.
As for tzedek I wait for him to get caught on what he accuses others hapoisel bemumoi, on the other hand I don't, Yitamu Chatoim Veloi Choiteim.

19

 Nov 13, 2009 at 04:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Is he wearing a kippa?

20

 Nov 13, 2009 at 04:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Seems to me that you are mad at the Rubashkin family b/c they didnt listen to you. And - you should look up what teshuvah really means!

21

 Nov 14, 2009 at 05:26 AM Helen Says:

Let the conservatives make a campaign that their clergy should stop messing with other peoples wifes! The latest scandal in Los Angeles should be enough for them to first clean up their own back yard.

HOW MUCH MONEY ARE THEY EXPECTING TO MAKE ON THEIR NEW HASHGOCHA? (although most of their members don't eat kosher!) QUITE ALOT I AM TOLD.

22

 Nov 14, 2009 at 03:51 AM Anonymous Says:

None of you can accept the truth, even when it comes from another yid. All you do is criticize the other person's brand of Judaism. Even conservative jews like to keep kosher, don't you know that? And who are you all to judge a conservative jew, when you yourselves are violating commandments, advocating fraud and lies as a way to behave in business.
And if you say you do not advocate fraud and lies in business, then that is certainly the impression you have given me from reading all these comments.

23

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:02 PM disgusting Says:

article is a disgrace

24

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:00 PM Anonymous Says:

And Hitlers army lives on as a "rabbi"

25

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:42 PM Peta;Hechsher Tzedek Connection Says:

When you Don't Beleive That The Torah Was givin to the Jews On Har Sinai ( as the conservitive don't ) Than you have distorted the truth ; And there is no telling how far away from the truth you will drift; Even though you try to portray an elequint meaing behind your sins

26

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:44 PM Monsey Man Says:

The Reform and (disappearing) Conservative movements behave like this with regularity.

A few years ago the Reform movement said the non-Shatness certification should only be given when it is assured that the clothing does not violate child labor standards. Care to guess how many Reform Jews keep the laws of Shatness today? The overwhelming majority of followers of both movements, many of whom are sincere and well intended, do not keep basic laws of Shabbos, Taharas Hamishpacha and Kashrus. Yet, once again, in an effort to either capture media attention, or to make themselves feel "better," their leaders add on "requirements" that they very very loosely hang on chazal.

27

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
Anonymous Says:

None of you can accept the truth, even when it comes from another yid. All you do is criticize the other person's brand of Judaism. Even conservative jews like to keep kosher, don't you know that? And who are you all to judge a conservative jew, when you yourselves are violating commandments, advocating fraud and lies as a way to behave in business.
And if you say you do not advocate fraud and lies in business, then that is certainly the impression you have given me from reading all these comments.

even if this is all true its not in his place to spread loshon horah he should be ashamed and feeling sorry for testifying against another jew.

28

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:38 PM Low life!!! Says:

this guy is a low life! let him go to work and get a job and not live off the putting other people down........

29

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:48 PM Shmuel Says:

What a Conservative "Rabbi" says has as much importance to me as what the local Goluch says.

30

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:33 PM Anonymous Says:

This is no rav call him mr. Not rabbi he should burn for giving in such a holy family like rubashkin

31

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:32 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #24  
Anonymous Says:

And Hitlers army lives on as a "rabbi"

You are wicked to compare a Jew and Rabbi to Hitler Y”SY, why oh why? Because he had the gumption to call out SMR

32

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:28 PM OMG Says:

Well said, some of these posters are drunk with the cool-aid they don’t understand that as we are moving ahead in the 21st century, we must conform to humanly standards, which is no contradiction with the Torah, additionally it is wrong to say that Agri supplied us with less expensive meat therefore SMR had a right to exploit humans for cheap labor, and what would you say when if the 2nd trial produces testimony that will shock the human consciousness, oh it is ok I was able to fress (Shaul I lifted this from you) a pound of meat which was marinated in someone else blood, sweat and tears, oh yes that would go over in the none Jewish population, it is high time that Jews who proclaim their piously should start acting like one.

33

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:26 PM Anonymous Says:

This guy is ill and looks it too.

34

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:52 PM Mevakesh Emes Says:

"...trying to steer the Rubashkin family towards taking responsibility and correcting their mistakes, acting in accordance with the biblical injunction – “hokhaich tokhiach et amitecha” – “rebuke your kinsman,” that is, do not stand idly by while one of your brethren commits a grievous wrongdoing."

Why don't you start with getting your own false, watered-down perversion of Judaism to do the same and start keeping halacha instead of making ti up as you go along and going against thousands of years of chachamim? You and your "group" are infested with yeshus and gaivah, not to mention being chaiv in din moser.

35

 Nov 14, 2009 at 06:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Will Perdue Chickens and Omaha Steaks also have Morris Allen Hechsher Tzedek? as most of the members of his congregation eat those non kosher foods.

36

 Nov 14, 2009 at 05:46 PM 5T Lawyer Says:

Rabbi? where did he get his simcha from waldbaums?

37

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:17 PM Mendel Zilberberg Says:

1. The court conviction demostrates that there were activities perpetrated by an INDIVIDUAL that are in violation of the law,
2. That with hindsight (and probably with foresight) a deal should have been more seriously considered,
HOWEVER
3. If not for the immigration issues and widespread media coverage the chances that federal prosecutors would ever have looked into - or accepted the case - are less likely,
4. that the tenor ofthe article, that thereisa lack of remorse as demostrated by the Rubashkin'slackof listening to us - seems nothing more that self promotion on the backs of other peoples misery,
5. One can only wonder how this newly organized bastion of humanity and moral and ethical rectitude, reconciles trashing a FAMILY at their most vulnerable moment,
6. One can only wonder how this newly organized bastion of humanity and moral and ethical rectitude releasesthis typeof article in the week before conviction and sentencingof a fellow jew.

I thinkthere are many lessons for all to learn

38

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

As Jews, we are taught that we can accept Mussar from anyone- so why is it so difficult to look past the fact that this is coming from a conservative Rabbi, and accept the message. Rubashkin did wrong and was found guilty. Ive seen more posts here trying to make excuses as to why hes really innocent, got an unfair trial, etc. We live in America, where there are rules that govern us. Each one of us has an obligation to live by those rules, or face the consequences, and unfortanutely for Rubashkin, thats exactly what happened here.
And as far as those who say they would never eat from this hashgacha, lets not forget the scandals in the past few years, not with Conservative hashgachas, but with Glatt and Chasidic ones.

Let's get the facts straight

This was a " selective" prosocution ... They can get anyone ... You as well as any citizen in the US has broken laws either state or federal ... Last time you bought something online and did not pay TAXES ... Well you broke the law by not sending $ to the state . Ever bought something in anotherr state .. Did you send in the tax to state you live in ? I can go on with a 100 scenarios that you all do in daily lives that technically break the law .. But the GOVT looks the other way .. Here they wanted to GET him and there is nothing that he could do to save himself

As for hecsher tzedak , some one who does not keep shabbos and tharos hamispacha , does not even deserve a answer.. Its like arguing with the pope on halacha

39

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
OMG Says:

Well said, some of these posters are drunk with the cool-aid they don’t understand that as we are moving ahead in the 21st century, we must conform to humanly standards, which is no contradiction with the Torah, additionally it is wrong to say that Agri supplied us with less expensive meat therefore SMR had a right to exploit humans for cheap labor, and what would you say when if the 2nd trial produces testimony that will shock the human consciousness, oh it is ok I was able to fress (Shaul I lifted this from you) a pound of meat which was marinated in someone else blood, sweat and tears, oh yes that would go over in the none Jewish population, it is high time that Jews who proclaim their piously should start acting like one.

I know people that live in Postville and they tell me the workers were happy to work there and wanted to work more etc.. The only underaged worker was Rubashkin's son. You realy believe there was 86 offenses? Ya, there were bombs in the mezuzohs? You really believe all 86 charges, You and Shaul must have teamed up with this "drek" and you are most probably all guilty in massering etc. This "rabbi" does not come to the heels of what Rubashkin is in the eyes of Hashem.

40

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:08 PM tzedek? Says:

Kabel es haemes? so thats an excuse to act liek a fool....the ou did the rite thing....just keep quite,another yid is suffering...keep quite.

41

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

As Jews, we are taught that we can accept Mussar from anyone- so why is it so difficult to look past the fact that this is coming from a conservative Rabbi, and accept the message. Rubashkin did wrong and was found guilty. Ive seen more posts here trying to make excuses as to why hes really innocent, got an unfair trial, etc. We live in America, where there are rules that govern us. Each one of us has an obligation to live by those rules, or face the consequences, and unfortanutely for Rubashkin, thats exactly what happened here.
And as far as those who say they would never eat from this hashgacha, lets not forget the scandals in the past few years, not with Conservative hashgachas, but with Glatt and Chasidic ones.

Where, oh where, are we taught to accept Mussar from a person who does not believe in Torah min Hasomayim.. Rabbi Allen and his gropup do NOT believe in Torah min Hashomayim. And Torah as the Rambam defines it is both the Written Torah, and, the Oral Torah.
Unfortunatly, from you last lines, it seems that you are a Conservative, or a Conservative symphatizing Jew.

42

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
Anonymous Says:

None of you can accept the truth, even when it comes from another yid. All you do is criticize the other person's brand of Judaism. Even conservative jews like to keep kosher, don't you know that? And who are you all to judge a conservative jew, when you yourselves are violating commandments, advocating fraud and lies as a way to behave in business.
And if you say you do not advocate fraud and lies in business, then that is certainly the impression you have given me from reading all these comments.

Correction, many conservative Jews keep a minimum kosher standard at home by bringing in only what they consider kosher products in their home and many keep two sets of dishes. That doesn't mean that they have two sinks, two dishwashers, etc.

It also doesn't mean that they keep kosher outside the home, which they don't. They might not eat "pork" at least the old timers don't, but they do eat at McDonald's and Burger King and they rarely say no to shrimp.

43

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
Anonymous Says:

Let's get the facts straight

This was a " selective" prosocution ... They can get anyone ... You as well as any citizen in the US has broken laws either state or federal ... Last time you bought something online and did not pay TAXES ... Well you broke the law by not sending $ to the state . Ever bought something in anotherr state .. Did you send in the tax to state you live in ? I can go on with a 100 scenarios that you all do in daily lives that technically break the law .. But the GOVT looks the other way .. Here they wanted to GET him and there is nothing that he could do to save himself

As for hecsher tzedak , some one who does not keep shabbos and tharos hamispacha , does not even deserve a answer.. Its like arguing with the pope on halacha

And the question unfortunately still remains WHY did they go after him? Who influenced them? Who got them started and why? Why this vengeance, why this enthusiasm, why this arrogance?

44

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:56 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #39  
Anonymous Says:

I know people that live in Postville and they tell me the workers were happy to work there and wanted to work more etc.. The only underaged worker was Rubashkin's son. You realy believe there was 86 offenses? Ya, there were bombs in the mezuzohs? You really believe all 86 charges, You and Shaul must have teamed up with this "drek" and you are most probably all guilty in massering etc. This "rabbi" does not come to the heels of what Rubashkin is in the eyes of Hashem.

Now you are accusing Shaul and I with massering, all because we want Jews to be a beacon of light to other nations, and you are willing to expose mistreatment, physically and sexually on a mass scale, let me tell you, you might not believe any of it, but that happened with the fraud charges you didn’t believe any of it, I challengeyou to say outright if you believed them or not, but the Jury saw it differently, if you think that the fraud trial was extensively followed in the press, you have not seen yet when the national news will get a whiff of the next trial which will center on sexual and physical misconduct more then illegal aliens, that will reverberate through the nation. And that is what Shaul and I are desperately trying to avoid, but your brain is so full of yourself that you cannot punch your way out of a wet beg.

45

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
OMG Says:

Well said, some of these posters are drunk with the cool-aid they don’t understand that as we are moving ahead in the 21st century, we must conform to humanly standards, which is no contradiction with the Torah, additionally it is wrong to say that Agri supplied us with less expensive meat therefore SMR had a right to exploit humans for cheap labor, and what would you say when if the 2nd trial produces testimony that will shock the human consciousness, oh it is ok I was able to fress (Shaul I lifted this from you) a pound of meat which was marinated in someone else blood, sweat and tears, oh yes that would go over in the none Jewish population, it is high time that Jews who proclaim their piously should start acting like one.

Excuse me MR."OMG", what written proof do you have that the workers were paid less than minimum wage? And do you know percentage wise how many people get or companies actually pay minimum wage to their employees in this company? And while you are at it compare that to how many people are out of work. In addition why don't you survey all those people out of work and find out how many of them would like to work in a slaughterhouse even at above minimum wage?

According to other reports the workers were happy to work there and the reports of abuse are false. Why did the feds lock them up on a fastrack method. Was it so that they can't be interviewed by the press so that they could deny all these false allegations?

How come you always claim to know more than anyone else here? Who the heck are you?

46

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:41 PM Anonymous Says:

The Shulchan Aruch clearly states that a Jew who does 'Mesirah' (slanders to authorities about a fellow Jew) one is allowed to kill, no questions asked.
I don't know who gave this conservative Rabbi the 'heter' to transgess this halacha? Perhaps his conservative bible. All he seems to care about is the lack of pay or treatment for the workers at the plant. I am sure that Mr. Rubashkin did not imprison those workers or hold a gun to their head and force them to work for low wages. they could have said No and walked.
I wonder if all the cleaning ladies or help at the conservative Rabbi's place are legal immigrants.

47

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Great comments. What do you expect of the conservative movement, reform movement or any of the makeshift yiddishkeit. Their 'Torah' is based on the ethics of political correctness, not on real Torah values.

48

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:06 PM THE LETZER DOR Says:

what the hell was a consertaive jew doing near a glat kosher factory. if anything that would make the production treif its this miserable excuse for a jew.

49

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:31 PM SAD SAD PEOPLE Says:

How sad that people attack what is being said. Rabbi Allen was ordained at JTSA in 1984 and has participating in building a shul in Mendota Heights, MN that is a great shabbas community. He has relatives who are ner yisroel musmach, he has been promoting kashrut observance since he arrived at Beth Jacob in 1986. He tried to convince the rubashkins to change their ways and did so quietly and behind the scenes. Rubashkin even came to his synagogue in 2006 to discuss these issues. they sadly refused to change and today sholom is in jail. shavua tov

50

 Nov 14, 2009 at 07:27 PM Anonymous Says:

He should go home and take his yarmulka off FOO YA

51

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:18 PM Dvorah Says:

Ouf Dem Gonif Brent Duh Hitel - and in case I am not clear -I don't mean Rubahskin

52

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:15 PM 911 could have been prevented by heeding his advice, right? Says:

THis article made me laugh!!!!
It's similar to a letter that I am capable of writing to president Bush on the HOURS of meetings i had with President Bush outlining what needs to be changed in american security and NOW how 911 could have been prevented IF ONLY the president heeded MY ADVICE!!
My gosh, which rubashkin was he meeting with and talking to? his imaginary friend?
and wow! I didn't know how powerful he was to have prevented this!

53

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:15 PM 2 way street Says:

Lubavitch has decided to walk into the non frun street,with the pretense to influence them
This is one of the many casualties of someone who thinks he can use a 2 way street for just one way
The 2 way street has its rules and patrols and fatalities
Wise people know that to stay jewish you seek out the lane that goes your way only

54

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:24 PM ha Says:

this guy is a total looser

55

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:38 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

Excuse me MR."OMG", what written proof do you have that the workers were paid less than minimum wage? And do you know percentage wise how many people get or companies actually pay minimum wage to their employees in this company? And while you are at it compare that to how many people are out of work. In addition why don't you survey all those people out of work and find out how many of them would like to work in a slaughterhouse even at above minimum wage?

According to other reports the workers were happy to work there and the reports of abuse are false. Why did the feds lock them up on a fastrack method. Was it so that they can't be interviewed by the press so that they could deny all these false allegations?

How come you always claim to know more than anyone else here? Who the heck are you?

First of all I never ever claimed that I am privy to none public information, the differences between you and your ilk, and I, I am using my God given brains, and you have brain freeze, (probably your cool-aid was slush) I am not doing any analysis of the veracity of the charges, but I know one thing that the national news media loves a good sex story and a story of abusing employee or underage kids working, and regardless that you could point to a million people who would be willing to take the job at or just above minimum wages, the press will run with the scandal not what you think as far I am concerned you and your ilk were up to now wrong, so why should SMR listen to you.

56

 Nov 14, 2009 at 09:04 PM In Pain Says:

"an important step forward in the effort to fix the nation's Immigration system"

This trial was not on Immigration fraud. It was on Bank fraud. Jerk!

"heart goes out to the community of Postville."

I though it was the government who did the raid which consequently shut down the plat and destroyed the city. Double Jerk!

57

 Nov 14, 2009 at 09:00 PM rabbi harry green Says:

every dog has ther day I hope allen your day comes fast" benfol ovachu" al tismach" now we know that you helpet to destroy dis company & family for your personaly reasons to build your bussnies with "blody hands" you have a din ""muser"""& mitar lhrko" byom kipar"and hopeing& praying it should hapen fast.

58

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:49 PM Anonymous Says:

it is important that we should all be very aware of this conservative hashgacha so as not to confuse it with an orthodox hashgacha and unintentionally eat non kosher food as it is very possible that they will be placing their hechsher on non kosher foods although they may treat their workers better and run their business according to the law of the land it doesn't mean that they have any place in kashrus.

59

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #44  
OMG Says:

Now you are accusing Shaul and I with massering, all because we want Jews to be a beacon of light to other nations, and you are willing to expose mistreatment, physically and sexually on a mass scale, let me tell you, you might not believe any of it, but that happened with the fraud charges you didn’t believe any of it, I challengeyou to say outright if you believed them or not, but the Jury saw it differently, if you think that the fraud trial was extensively followed in the press, you have not seen yet when the national news will get a whiff of the next trial which will center on sexual and physical misconduct more then illegal aliens, that will reverberate through the nation. And that is what Shaul and I are desperately trying to avoid, but your brain is so full of yourself that you cannot punch your way out of a wet beg.

No, no there was no such misconduct. I believe he broke the law but not 86 of them and not for personal gain at all. He did not steal from anyone, gave people jobs and payed alot of taxes. His losing his whole empire and anything he owned, left without a penny is over enough of a punishment and we should feel sorry and upset for him because the crimes he may have done did not hurt anyone. The gov't still gained tremendously while AGRI existed with some laws broken then if his business wasn't there.
It cannot be that you are upset with Rubashkin because he is not a"beacon of light..." you are poshut happy with all that is happening to him

60

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:36 PM Rippin Pinchas Says:

Over the centuries we have had various liberal, "free thinking,' self-rightoues people. They think that they have all the answers. The enemy within is always a big problem. I guess this "Rabbi" did not learn a lesson from Rudolph Kastner.

61

 Nov 14, 2009 at 08:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

As Jews, we are taught that we can accept Mussar from anyone- so why is it so difficult to look past the fact that this is coming from a conservative Rabbi, and accept the message. Rubashkin did wrong and was found guilty. Ive seen more posts here trying to make excuses as to why hes really innocent, got an unfair trial, etc. We live in America, where there are rules that govern us. Each one of us has an obligation to live by those rules, or face the consequences, and unfortanutely for Rubashkin, thats exactly what happened here.
And as far as those who say they would never eat from this hashgacha, lets not forget the scandals in the past few years, not with Conservative hashgachas, but with Glatt and Chasidic ones.

I dont think the fact that he was guilty is what is irritating these comment writers- more of the smug know it all heartless letter this "rabbi" wrote, full of lashon harah, gossip,,,,, and hate. even if rubashkin was wrong, yidden should have pity on another not this attitude, not from a rabbi...

62

 Nov 14, 2009 at 09:28 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #59  
Anonymous Says:

No, no there was no such misconduct. I believe he broke the law but not 86 of them and not for personal gain at all. He did not steal from anyone, gave people jobs and payed alot of taxes. His losing his whole empire and anything he owned, left without a penny is over enough of a punishment and we should feel sorry and upset for him because the crimes he may have done did not hurt anyone. The gov't still gained tremendously while AGRI existed with some laws broken then if his business wasn't there.
It cannot be that you are upset with Rubashkin because he is not a"beacon of light..." you are poshut happy with all that is happening to him

As usual you are trying to elbow God out of his job, it is God who will judge me, if, I am happy about the outcome, and I will never cow down to you.

63

 Nov 14, 2009 at 09:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #61  
Anonymous Says:

I dont think the fact that he was guilty is what is irritating these comment writers- more of the smug know it all heartless letter this "rabbi" wrote, full of lashon harah, gossip,,,,, and hate. even if rubashkin was wrong, yidden should have pity on another not this attitude, not from a rabbi...

Right on! Even if he was guilty, this is not the right attitude for one who has already received a strong blow . If the roles were reversed Rubashkin would try to help this guy!

64

 Nov 14, 2009 at 10:23 PM Anonymous Says:

"It is important to note that the trial on charges of worker abuse is not even underway. The heartbreaking stories that will emerge in the course of this trial will be as cringe-worthy as they are criminal. "

How bout that? This sanctimonious waste of air is the prosecution, judge and jury all in one.

65

 Nov 14, 2009 at 10:27 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #24  
Anonymous Says:

And Hitlers army lives on as a "rabbi"

This is WAY out of line. No Jew should be compared to Hitler no matter how much we may disagree.

66

 Nov 14, 2009 at 10:31 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #43  
Anonymous Says:

And the question unfortunately still remains WHY did they go after him? Who influenced them? Who got them started and why? Why this vengeance, why this enthusiasm, why this arrogance?

Who cares why? The fact is, had there been no violations, there would be nothing to charge him with and nothing to convict him on. Remember that these charges are serious violations of halachah. We are Jews, we are *supposed* to be held to a higher standard.

67

 Nov 14, 2009 at 10:32 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #46  
Anonymous Says:

The Shulchan Aruch clearly states that a Jew who does 'Mesirah' (slanders to authorities about a fellow Jew) one is allowed to kill, no questions asked.
I don't know who gave this conservative Rabbi the 'heter' to transgess this halacha? Perhaps his conservative bible. All he seems to care about is the lack of pay or treatment for the workers at the plant. I am sure that Mr. Rubashkin did not imprison those workers or hold a gun to their head and force them to work for low wages. they could have said No and walked.
I wonder if all the cleaning ladies or help at the conservative Rabbi's place are legal immigrants.

The convictions this week were not for labor or immigration violations, they were for defrauding banks! Business fraud is called a toeiva by the Torah!!!

68

 Nov 14, 2009 at 10:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Dear "Rabbi" Morris J. Allen,

Using the misfortune of another family, whether you like them or not, as a platform for furthuring your own agenda can in no way be considered "ethical" can it?

I will never buy anything with your "hechsher" on it. I don't support the morally bankrupt set of "principals" that you call "ethics"

69

 Nov 14, 2009 at 10:39 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #59  
Anonymous Says:

No, no there was no such misconduct. I believe he broke the law but not 86 of them and not for personal gain at all. He did not steal from anyone, gave people jobs and payed alot of taxes. His losing his whole empire and anything he owned, left without a penny is over enough of a punishment and we should feel sorry and upset for him because the crimes he may have done did not hurt anyone. The gov't still gained tremendously while AGRI existed with some laws broken then if his business wasn't there.
It cannot be that you are upset with Rubashkin because he is not a"beacon of light..." you are poshut happy with all that is happening to him

Did you read what he was convicted of? He committed fraud and theft. Ask the people he hasn't repaid if he has hurt them.

I can't believe that people are making excuses here. A single Jewish businessman let his yetzer hara get the best of him, thought that HaShem's Torah didn't apply to him, and committed crimes that he has now been convicted of. He deserves our forgiveness once he commits to doing tshuvah. But to rationalize and justify these actions, which violate numerous Torah and Rabbinic injunctions? Who authorized the annulment of a quarter of the Shulchan Aruch?

We can't justifiably criticize the Conservative movement for their wholesale ignorance of Shabat, kashrut, and tahaharat hamishpachah while we are willing to justify wholesale ignorance of Chosen Mishpat.

70

 Nov 15, 2009 at 12:16 AM Anonymous Says:

The governement was only able to bring charges of fraud when Rubashkins company was closed because thats when Rubashkin was not able t able to pay anyone because he had no company. What you fail to mention and what the governement refused to let the jury hear was the fact that 16 years Rubashkin never missed a payment to the banks or it's workers. The banks made plenty of money by the interest on 16 years and kept on lending money to Rubashkin and then they turn around and say he was a thief?

Just about everyone reading this post should know that if you miss one payment on your mortagethe bank can also bring you up on charges on fraud. Secondly ,most people that own homes signed papers inflating their income so they can be approved and buy an over priced home in heimishe areas especially in the good years before the housing market collapsed.

All the banks can turn around and arrest everyone for bank fraud so before you trash Rubashkin you should look in the mirror.

How many times does Ben Brafman have to get up on a podium and scream about being honest in business? Rosh yeshivos don't even have the guts to talk about honesty because their own yeshivos are not in order.

71

 Nov 15, 2009 at 12:08 AM Anonymous Says:

This Mr Allen is a bumb and he probably is the one behind the fall of Rubashkin. When Allen says "if he (Rubashkin) would have listened to us in 2006 this would not have happened" it means he was behind getting the governement invovled.



Allen is like a chimpanzee in a zoo who loves attacking everything they can get their hands on.


Clean up your own building Mr. Allen Hypocrite

72

 Nov 15, 2009 at 12:08 AM FVNMS Says:

This guy is no more a rabbi than I am an Indian princess... Why are we lavishing so much attention on his narishkeit?

73

 Nov 14, 2009 at 11:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
Charlie Hall Says:

Did you read what he was convicted of? He committed fraud and theft. Ask the people he hasn't repaid if he has hurt them.

I can't believe that people are making excuses here. A single Jewish businessman let his yetzer hara get the best of him, thought that HaShem's Torah didn't apply to him, and committed crimes that he has now been convicted of. He deserves our forgiveness once he commits to doing tshuvah. But to rationalize and justify these actions, which violate numerous Torah and Rabbinic injunctions? Who authorized the annulment of a quarter of the Shulchan Aruch?

We can't justifiably criticize the Conservative movement for their wholesale ignorance of Shabat, kashrut, and tahaharat hamishpachah while we are willing to justify wholesale ignorance of Chosen Mishpat.

Charlie Hall.
"We cant justifiably criticize the Conservative movement for their wholesale ignorance of Shabat, kashrut, and Taharat Hamispacha."
What are you talking about.....
a.) ignorance of Shabbat... They dont know about Shabbat....is that the reason they do not keep Shabbat. ..are you for real?
b.) ignorance of Kashrut... they don't know about kashrut...is that the reason they eat shrimp and other non kosher foods..@McDonalds and Burger King..are you for real?

"while we are willing to justify the wholesale ignorance of Chosen Mishpat"
May I respectfully ask you..did you ever learn Chosen Mishpat? that you can claim that others justify the wholesale ignorance of Chosen Mishpat. I believe that you are absolutly not familiar with the laws of Chosen Mishpat. Please write or detail which of his "actions violated numerous Torah and Rabbinic injunctions" and which Torah laws and/or Rabbinic injunctions he violated.

74

 Nov 14, 2009 at 11:25 PM Boruch N. Hoffinger BS"D Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

As Jews, we are taught that we can accept Mussar from anyone- so why is it so difficult to look past the fact that this is coming from a conservative Rabbi, and accept the message. Rubashkin did wrong and was found guilty. Ive seen more posts here trying to make excuses as to why hes really innocent, got an unfair trial, etc. We live in America, where there are rules that govern us. Each one of us has an obligation to live by those rules, or face the consequences, and unfortanutely for Rubashkin, thats exactly what happened here.
And as far as those who say they would never eat from this hashgacha, lets not forget the scandals in the past few years, not with Conservative hashgachas, but with Glatt and Chasidic ones.

Simple, the Rubashkin plant NEVER harmed anyone. There were only a few fake complaints.
He will be exonerated on appeal...wait and see.
Re: eating from Conservative 'hashgacha,' remember that, true there were problems with Glass and Chassidic but these 'heckshers' are based on 'Torah Mi'Sinai.'
The Conservative movements basic belief is that The Torah was NOT from Heaven, but only a smart idea...man-made. Even the most strict and careful Conservative 'hecksher' is 'traif.'

75

 Nov 14, 2009 at 11:22 PM Anonymous Says:

The chazer sticks out his split hoofs and says, "Look how kosher I am!"

76

 Nov 15, 2009 at 09:17 AM Anonymous Says:

this so called rabbi can be emailed directly at MOJO210AL@aol.com I find his whole article offensive to say the least. To make the conservative movement, who don't "believe" to be the arbiters of kashrus is a sad day in Jewish history. I for one will never eat any food that has their "hechsher" implicit or implied.
Before they pass judgement on ANY matters that pertain to the jewish religio, they should closely examine their own place and station in jewish society.

77

 Nov 15, 2009 at 09:12 AM FVNMS Says:

Reply to #75  
Anonymous Says:

The chazer sticks out his split hoofs and says, "Look how kosher I am!"

So your saying the chazer has a hechsher tzedek?

78

 Nov 15, 2009 at 09:03 AM Anonymous Says:

"why is vosizneias printing such letters? some of what is written here borders on outright kfira"
To Anonymous: They are printing this letter because their job is to present the news. We must be aware of this in order to know to ban and boycott this company and their rishus. If you choose to bury your head in the sand, and if you only want to read about how beautiful the world is and how nice everyone is, go read the Hamodia. Thank goodness for vosizneais, at least someone is telling us what is really going on.

80

 Nov 15, 2009 at 02:05 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #69  
Charlie Hall Says:

Did you read what he was convicted of? He committed fraud and theft. Ask the people he hasn't repaid if he has hurt them.

I can't believe that people are making excuses here. A single Jewish businessman let his yetzer hara get the best of him, thought that HaShem's Torah didn't apply to him, and committed crimes that he has now been convicted of. He deserves our forgiveness once he commits to doing tshuvah. But to rationalize and justify these actions, which violate numerous Torah and Rabbinic injunctions? Who authorized the annulment of a quarter of the Shulchan Aruch?

We can't justifiably criticize the Conservative movement for their wholesale ignorance of Shabat, kashrut, and tahaharat hamishpachah while we are willing to justify wholesale ignorance of Chosen Mishpat.

What came first the chicken or the egg? It looks like we are going to continue this dance. He was repaying his loan until the FEDS forced him into bankruptcy. What was the reported amount that he had already paid back? Over $13 million dollars? About a third of the original principle of the loan.

81

 Nov 15, 2009 at 01:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
OMG Says:

First of all I never ever claimed that I am privy to none public information, the differences between you and your ilk, and I, I am using my God given brains, and you have brain freeze, (probably your cool-aid was slush) I am not doing any analysis of the veracity of the charges, but I know one thing that the national news media loves a good sex story and a story of abusing employee or underage kids working, and regardless that you could point to a million people who would be willing to take the job at or just above minimum wages, the press will run with the scandal not what you think as far I am concerned you and your ilk were up to now wrong, so why should SMR listen to you.

So know-it-all, if he paid below minimum wage, why didn't the Labor Dep't come after him before ICE. It took a while before the numbers were discovered but he had to file tax returns, workers comp, disability, unemployment, etc.

82

 Nov 15, 2009 at 09:45 AM anonymous Says:

Reply to #67  
Charlie Hall Says:

The convictions this week were not for labor or immigration violations, they were for defrauding banks! Business fraud is called a toeiva by the Torah!!!

Charlie- Desperate people make mistakes. Most of these things happened in desperation after the raids and Rubashkin (while not agreeing it was right or legal)attempted to save the community and business hoping things would work out. If his true intention was not to defraud anyone and his record was clean until then regARDING LOANS, it was done under dire circumstances and should be taken into consideration in sentencing.
If he is so concerned , this rabbi -he should send a letter to the Judge and ask for consideration of these facts.

83

 Nov 15, 2009 at 10:57 AM sam Says:

Reply to #66  
Charlie Hall Says:

Who cares why? The fact is, had there been no violations, there would be nothing to charge him with and nothing to convict him on. Remember that these charges are serious violations of halachah. We are Jews, we are *supposed* to be held to a higher standard.

big tzaddik, big kanaouh when it come against shomrei torah as oppose to what you are not

84

 Nov 15, 2009 at 10:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #67  
Charlie Hall Says:

The convictions this week were not for labor or immigration violations, they were for defrauding banks! Business fraud is called a toeiva by the Torah!!!

as usual, charlie hall and co. will always use the torah kanueth when its against shomrei torah..as if they care what the torah preaches. to the restof shomrei torah, you should remember what a conservative , reform galach etc preaches is as valid as a christian, catholic preaches .right or wrong regarding the subject .and i dont meant to insult any beliefs im just saying regardintg judaism they arr totally irrelevant

85

 Nov 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM Anonymous Says:

lethim spel out what kind of unfair behaivors went on at rubaskin dont go with standart union pouwer grab slougens wom you joint to get an inrout in kasrus buisnes in timeof resesin they criatedmore than 1000jobs rescuet awole areas aconomi jou joint local antisemites ..yelos .interest ..unionmafja boses acopy of stifen wise behaiver durin worldwar 2 in time when gov .handsbilions to wallst crocs wo comited in1hour more crime then all the paty crime that the rabaskinsare acuset of it remins of fabel ther wasan epidemic in the forest enimels diet left and rigth enimal kingdom desited to rependan confes before the lion the king the wolf apiert and spelt out his con. was very hungry iwent to wilage sou the farmer withhis cou i grabt them and ate tem bout th lion dismist you where hungry than lamb came before lion judge i was in the wilage the farmer with his wagen full of stroe i polt out 2 srings ant ate it all judge juri yumt at him jou tief jou thecoulprit all the problems an onth spot ate himup i aplegisfor my spelin jou cou rewriteit proplli j.F

86

 Nov 15, 2009 at 12:28 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #80  
Anonymous Says:

What came first the chicken or the egg? It looks like we are going to continue this dance. He was repaying his loan until the FEDS forced him into bankruptcy. What was the reported amount that he had already paid back? Over $13 million dollars? About a third of the original principle of the loan.

True! true! Rabbi if this is indeed true, your entire thesis, is wrong. Not to say that circumstances make this right, but then you should lead the move for leniency since you would fight for aN African American convicted of a crime who was raised in abusive deprived environment. If you believe in acheinu Bnai Yisroel and inded these fats about Rubashkins honesty is correct where is your tzedek dircted to? What are u doing now for a person caught up in extenuating circumstances after the Raids??

87

 Nov 15, 2009 at 01:09 PM torahyid Says:

In a way conservative is worse than reform, for at least reform don't pretend to have anything to do with the Torah and anyone looking for authentic Judaism knows to steer clear of them, whereas conservative pretend they have to do with the Torah, and through this trap ignorant Jews to join them.

88

 Nov 15, 2009 at 12:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #78  
Anonymous Says:

"why is vosizneias printing such letters? some of what is written here borders on outright kfira"
To Anonymous: They are printing this letter because their job is to present the news. We must be aware of this in order to know to ban and boycott this company and their rishus. If you choose to bury your head in the sand, and if you only want to read about how beautiful the world is and how nice everyone is, go read the Hamodia. Thank goodness for vosizneais, at least someone is telling us what is really going on.

Read #80- No one is disputing the verdict here and VIN's right to print this Rabbis letter. But most people have a right to share their views and personal comments.
The fact is, that many people who see the bottom line of what Reform and Conservative Judaism has wrought on the long term existence of Jews in America are offended by having their views on Kashrus and the Rubashkins shown here in a so called religious Web site. The resulting intermarriage rate, lack of continuing Jewish Halachic traditional basic Laws of kashrus, Shabbos Taharas Hamishpacha (although a few Conservative Mikvahs have reopened Kein yirbu!) inclusive of many of their rabbis , Female and Gays included ! makes this Rabbis comments on Hechshers a mockery. That is something u have to agree this person is right 100%.
Let us hope that all of our acheinu bnei Yisroel will observe and be in achdus!

89

 Nov 15, 2009 at 01:45 PM yerushalmi yid Says:

"Achieving Magen Tzedek is our ascent to Sinai, fraught with challenge and yet possessed of a promise. Like the Law that Moses receives at the summit of the mountain, Magen Tzedek will give........"

What is this guy saying ???!!! Mock Tzedek = Torah m'Sinai ??????!!!!!!!

The Ohr Sameach (Rav Meir Simcha of Dvinsk) once visited Berlin, and saw a German kissing his dog in a park. When he saw this, he remarked that a nation that is capable of kissing a dog is capable of killing humans.

How many yidden have been butchered spiritually by the Conservative movement ??

90

 Nov 15, 2009 at 02:38 PM lev Says:

Reply to #88  
Anonymous Says:

Read #80- No one is disputing the verdict here and VIN's right to print this Rabbis letter. But most people have a right to share their views and personal comments.
The fact is, that many people who see the bottom line of what Reform and Conservative Judaism has wrought on the long term existence of Jews in America are offended by having their views on Kashrus and the Rubashkins shown here in a so called religious Web site. The resulting intermarriage rate, lack of continuing Jewish Halachic traditional basic Laws of kashrus, Shabbos Taharas Hamishpacha (although a few Conservative Mikvahs have reopened Kein yirbu!) inclusive of many of their rabbis , Female and Gays included ! makes this Rabbis comments on Hechshers a mockery. That is something u have to agree this person is right 100%.
Let us hope that all of our acheinu bnei Yisroel will observe and be in achdus!

in short , debasing the whole torah...

91

 Nov 15, 2009 at 03:46 PM Acheinu KOL Bais Yisroel Says:

Reply to #90  
lev Says:

in short , debasing the whole torah...

That is only regarding observance of torah mSinai ! But it is worse ! The American Jewish Committee ran a study of what happened to 2000 families in each branch of Judaism since 1950's. The study showed only 20-% had any remnants to judaism in the Reform Movement and 30-40% in the Conservative movement whereas the Orthodox had double the members. In other words the bottom line is that these movements have been responsible for the spiritual extermination of Jews in America.
And this Rabbi is telling the Orthodox what and how they should conduct themselves.
I personally grew up with Dr, Finkelstein and Dr. Lieberman who were shomrei Torah and mitzvaos while heading their JTS for the Conservative movement. Their kruma hashkofos resulted in a banal movement plagued by women Rabbis and chazznim as well as the Gay Community rabbinate. In my days the JTS had separate s eating.
Look at the bottom line after 50 years with these so called religous leaders like this rabbi- Destruction of an enormous Jewish Populance gone forever into the ranks of every other religions . Now the Reform movement realizing the banality and destructive outcome is moving to bring more tradition back.

92

 Nov 16, 2009 at 12:31 AM I smell a hypocrite Says:

As one of the choshuva RA-BANIM, did this clergyman comment on the 1300 illegals arrested at Swift Beef and Pork on Dec 12, 2006? Did he comment on the difference in treatment between the Swift arrestees who were simply deported and the Agri arrestees who were prosecuted for aggravated identity theft, the same thing the Swift illegals did to gain employment. Did he comment on the difference between Swift, in which none of the CEOs were charged and Agri where the CEO was charged as if he was sitting in the HR dept and passing out false documents to the workers, (which was clearlyot the case.) Did he comment on the false charges in the original complaint of weapons trading and drug manufacturing, never again mentioned after the raid. Why does this clown have a say? What next? Comments from Rabbi Francis Xavier Obrien head of the gay congregation Shalom al Yisroel on his new standards for taharas hamishpacha?

93

 Nov 15, 2009 at 10:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #91  
Acheinu KOL Bais Yisroel Says:

That is only regarding observance of torah mSinai ! But it is worse ! The American Jewish Committee ran a study of what happened to 2000 families in each branch of Judaism since 1950's. The study showed only 20-% had any remnants to judaism in the Reform Movement and 30-40% in the Conservative movement whereas the Orthodox had double the members. In other words the bottom line is that these movements have been responsible for the spiritual extermination of Jews in America.
And this Rabbi is telling the Orthodox what and how they should conduct themselves.
I personally grew up with Dr, Finkelstein and Dr. Lieberman who were shomrei Torah and mitzvaos while heading their JTS for the Conservative movement. Their kruma hashkofos resulted in a banal movement plagued by women Rabbis and chazznim as well as the Gay Community rabbinate. In my days the JTS had separate s eating.
Look at the bottom line after 50 years with these so called religous leaders like this rabbi- Destruction of an enormous Jewish Populance gone forever into the ranks of every other religions . Now the Reform movement realizing the banality and destructive outcome is moving to bring more tradition back.

yes,your right..and thats whats its all about. and thats why the gemorrah sanhedrin states if one belives the whole torah misini except one ois he's a kofer bechol hatorah., because if deny even that why not evenitually everything. and so it goes downhill as proven by all movements

94

 Nov 16, 2009 at 07:43 AM The Good News Says:

The good news is that this rabbi and his movement will self -destruct. In several generations his descendants will no longer even be Jewish, as is happening to the reform movement and as happened to the Shabtaiins, and the first Christians. That is the good news.

The bad news is that until that happens and even afterwards they will wreak havoc on our traditions and way of life. But the Mesorah will always survive and those who stand on the blood of Jews and claim their superiority are fleeting realities, while we will endure for all time.

95

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