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Jerusalem - Edah HaChareidis Vs. Rabbi Elyashiv On Intel Compromise |
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News Source: Jerusalem Post
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The deal would have reduced Saturday production at Intel to the bare minimum, with only non-Jews working the line.
In contrast to the Eda Haredit's stance, Lithuanian haredim told Army Radio that their leader, Rabbi Elyashiv, tends to accept the agreement, and might even order his followers to protest in front of Rabbi Weiss's home.
The agreement began to take shape during last Thursday's meeting of Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin, MK Uri Maklev (United Torah Judaism) and Intel Israel CEO Maxine Fassenberg, but it was not ready to be put in to effect in time to prevent last week's Saturday's demonstrations.
A senior official in Rivlin's office confirmed that negotiators had "seen a willingness in Rabbi Elyashiv's faction [Lithuanian haredim]" to accept the compromise proposal, which would be based on three changes to the current working situation at the Har Hotzvim factory. Fassenberg agreed to reduce the Sabbath work to only those production aspects that could not be stopped for the Sabbath, that the number of workers would be reduced from 120 per Sabbath shift to 20 in each of three shifts, and that none of the employees who work the Sabbath shifts will be Jews.
Also on Sunday, Industry, Trade and Labor Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer (Labor) made an appearance at a rededication ceremony at theJerusalem plant at which he spoke out against the demonstrators, and expressed hope that the hi-tech giant would chose to stay in the city.
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Read Comments (25) — Post Yours »
1
Nov 19, 2009 at 07:52 AM Anonymous Says:
Intel has gone as far as it can go without shutting down the plant--which is really what the chareidi want. They live in mortal fear that real job opportunities will be available to their bochurim who might, chas vachalilah go out and get a parnassah. As long as there are no jobs, they can continue sending their rabbonim to JFK every motzi shabbos for a week to beg money for their kehillah who are starving and lack sufficient funds to attend next week's demonstration. It is more important to keep these jobs and expand productive opportunities in EY than it is to capitulate to these absurd shabbos demands which even Elyashiv has said are no longer an issue once the workers are all goyim.
2
Nov 19, 2009 at 08:16 AM Anonny Says:
So now the real truth comes out. Real tzadikim like R' Elyashiv are happy with measures being put in place to avoid chillul Shabbos; the Eida goons, on the other hand, are not happy with this outcome - they were counting on this being a source of fun and action for weeks to come. They are dismayed that the game may have to end so soon, and are doing whatever they can to keep it going.
3
Nov 19, 2009 at 08:15 AM Anonymous Says:
this is sick pure stone age...somebody needs to make a website with all these nut cases so when these bums come to ny to collect tzedaka if they are part of this....we can choose whom to give and whom not to.....what a backward way to live....i beleive its against torah against a normal way to live...every day these guys do what they do...they make a chilul hahsem and cause other jews to never want to do mitzvot or torah as these bums live a wonderful example....shame on all of these @#$%^*&%!!!!!
4
Nov 19, 2009 at 08:30 AM Anonymous Says:
I have a very basic question; is protesting like we have seen at the Carta parking lot or at Intel permissible on shabbos? Is it a necessary activity? Are you allowed to rub out the soles of your shoes for this? Exert energy? Doesn't all this protesting lead to additional chillul shabbos?
5
Nov 19, 2009 at 08:47 AM formally Says:
I think they just want to destroy Israel as a functioning state, (No jobs since all companies pulled out) and that is what they are after anyway. The destination of Israel
6
Nov 19, 2009 at 09:10 AM Chilul hashem maven Says:
Who are all these armchair chilul hashem'niks? Who gave them chilul hashem smicha? Where did they find all the definitions of chilul hashem?
If not for these holy Jews defending the kedusha of yerushalayim, it would look like tel aviv by now.
7
Nov 19, 2009 at 09:10 AM Anonymous Says:
Let's be careful when we speak about Gedolim we look up to. In my opinion this is Loshon Hara which may not even be true. Who was there to hear this first hand?
Rabbi Weiss is a very smart and sensible person. Rabbi Eliashiv is looked up to by all types of Jews around the world. In other words some of this ....is maybe not the way it is presented.
Please, i feel this article is in poor taste.
8
Nov 19, 2009 at 10:07 AM Anonymous Says:
“ So now the real truth comes out. Real tzadikim like R' Elyashiv are happy with measures being put in place to avoid chillul Shabbos; the Eida goons, on the other hand, are not happy with this outcome - they were counting on this being a source of fun and action for weeks to come. They are dismayed that the game may have to end so soon, and are doing whatever they can to keep it going. ”
How do you dare talking against such a ehrliche yid Rabbi Tuvia Weiss and other Eida Chareidis Rabunim? they just want action and fun ha? do you know one of them? their main reason is that if they will operate on shabbos all other companies in Jerusalem will follow.
9
Nov 19, 2009 at 10:25 AM Dag Says:
Will the factions of Charedeim throw stones at each other?
10
Nov 19, 2009 at 10:18 AM Anonymous Says:
Also, how will Rav Elyashiv check the Jewish status of the workers, huh? Seriously, I don't believe Rav Elyashiv even agreed to this compromise.
11
Nov 19, 2009 at 10:18 AM Anonymous Says:
Also, how will Rav Elyashiv check the Jewish status of the workers, huh? Seriously, I don't believe Rav Elyashiv even agreed to this compromise.
12
Nov 19, 2009 at 11:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ So now the real truth comes out. Real tzadikim like R' Elyashiv are happy with measures being put in place to avoid chillul Shabbos; the Eida goons, on the other hand, are not happy with this outcome - they were counting on this being a source of fun and action for weeks to come. They are dismayed that the game may have to end so soon, and are doing whatever they can to keep it going. ”
Who are you to say who is a "real" tzadik? shame on you for talking on a gadol hador like Rav Weiss shlita, he is a real great man and you should call him to ask mechila.
13
Nov 19, 2009 at 11:35 AM gaveaget Says:
I think they should be koinam any hanaah from Intel chips. Since they are manufactured on Shabbos by Yidden they are assur behanaah. Ban INTEL Chips. That would send a REAL message.
14
Nov 19, 2009 at 11:32 AM Anonymous Says:
“ How do you dare talking against such a ehrliche yid Rabbi Tuvia Weiss and other Eida Chareidis Rabunim? they just want action and fun ha? do you know one of them? their main reason is that if they will operate on shabbos all other companies in Jerusalem will follow. ”
Intel is not a Jewish company. It does not produce kosher food where there would be sheilos. it is a computer company. Why is there a problem if non-jews work on shabbos? Doesn't every hotel employ non-jews on shabbos? Should we shut down every hotel on shabbos? Should we not employ any shiksas on shabbos? Here is another question that comes up on many occassions.
When someone becomes an Aveil, and runs a business, do they have to shut down their business for the week? Many Rabbonim will say if you have a goy for a partner you don't have to close it just don't take profit that week, or you can sell it to a goy for the week and don't take profit, or if you will lose "mamon".......
So again, there are always ways to work things out as Rav Eliyashuv is attempting to do. A goy is not mechuyav to keep shabbos.
15
Nov 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM only one solution Says:
There is really only one solution to all this rioting and creating a "hefker velt" , If yiden
will refrain en masse using products with Eida Chareidis hechsher than they will start to feel in their pocket and all this hefkeirus will end.
The Eidah Chareidis has only 2 functions
1) The hechsheirim business which became a huge money making enterprise.
2) Ordering hafgonos(demonstrations/riots) this is also geared to raising money from Satmar abroad.
A gutten Shabbos alle yiden
16
Nov 19, 2009 at 12:26 PM Simon Says:
Intel is owned by gentiles, and will be employing gentiles on shabbos to make chips that will, in the end, be mostly used by other gentils. I don't see how this breaks shabbos. Also, it is a similar setup to an Arab restaurant being open on shabbos, or a Christian tourist site etc. therefore why should the eida care about non-jews doing what they want on shabbos.
the comprimise seems fair and means that jews don't need to be forced to benefit from other jews breaking chabbos. the round 2 protest seems more political than halachic.
17
Nov 19, 2009 at 12:29 PM Lawyer Says:
At first blush, one wonders what is wrong with a non-Jewish company (Intel) employing non-Jews to work on Shabbos.
But how will that be enforced? Suppose a secular Jew decides he wants to work on Shabbos (extra pay)? Isn't it discrimination not to allow him to work then?
Hard to see practically how this compromise will work.
18
Nov 19, 2009 at 01:16 PM Anonymous Says:
TNU KAVOD LATORA EILU VAEILU AS LONG AS ITS OUR LEADERS AND NOT THEIR CUSTODIANS WHO R DICTATING POLICY
19
Nov 19, 2009 at 02:11 PM Realist Says:
“ TNU KAVOD LATORA EILU VAEILU AS LONG AS ITS OUR LEADERS AND NOT THEIR CUSTODIANS WHO R DICTATING POLICY ”
In the Eidah chareidis it's the custodians and their benefactors abroad who are dictating policies to their leaders not like by Rav Eliashiv.
20
Nov 19, 2009 at 02:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I have a very basic question; is protesting like we have seen at the Carta parking lot or at Intel permissible on shabbos? Is it a necessary activity? Are you allowed to rub out the soles of your shoes for this? Exert energy? Doesn't all this protesting lead to additional chillul shabbos? ”
Protesting certainly sounds like an uvdin d'chol (I'm sure you won't find that in poskim, but judging from what you gather about the gedarim for uvdin d'chol, I think it fits)
21
Nov 19, 2009 at 04:28 PM PM reader Says:
Why doesnt the Eida concede that Intel has a halachic right to rely on the heter of Rav Elyashiv? Did Beis Shammai protest Beis Hillel?!
22
Nov 19, 2009 at 11:46 PM Anonymous Says:
the gaaved & rav elyashiv are both big talmidei chachomim' and before all of you write your SHTUSIM please ................
23
Nov 20, 2009 at 06:40 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Why doesnt the Eida concede that Intel has a halachic right to rely on the heter of Rav Elyashiv? Did Beis Shammai protest Beis Hillel?! ”
How do you know what the eidah does or doesn't concede, OR what R Elyoshiv did or didn't permit? This JPost story is clearly unreliable. If you want to know what the eidah says and why they say it, someone has to ask them, which this reporter clearly didn't bother doing.
24
Nov 20, 2009 at 06:37 AM Milhouse Says:
What a sorry excuse for journalism this story is. There's a huge hole in it -- WHY is R Weiss allegedly opposed to this arrangement? The article doesn't say. Did the JPost bother even trying to find out? I can't imagine what his reason could be, but I would like to know, and I expect such a news article to inform me. Without knowing his reason, how can anyone form an opinion? After all R Weiss is a great talmid chochom, not somebody who can be dismissed out of hand. IF he's against it then he must have at least a plausible reason, which any reasonable person must take into consideration before deciding for or against his position. But given the sloppiness of the journalism, I'm far from convinced that it's got even the facts right. How does the reporter even know that R Weiss is against the arrangement, if she didn't bother getting any kind of statement from him or his spokemen?
25
Nov 20, 2009 at 09:13 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Intel is owned by gentiles, and will be employing gentiles on shabbos to make chips that will, in the end, be mostly used by other gentils. I don't see how this breaks shabbos. Also, it is a similar setup to an Arab restaurant being open on shabbos, or a Christian tourist site etc. therefore why should the eida care about non-jews doing what they want on shabbos.
the comprimise seems fair and means that jews don't need to be forced to benefit from other jews breaking chabbos. the round 2 protest seems more political than halachic. ”
Intel is a public company and is owned by the shareholders, after seeing the psak from Rav Weiss the Rov of the Eidah, I sold all my shares that I own in Intel, I have been a shareholder for long years, but if rav Weiss paskens that its forbidden for them to operate this facility on Shabbos that is reason enough to sell my intrest in this company
sorry I am not such a big talmid chocom as you ,to be able to determine the halacha differant from Rav Weiss who is an internationally recognized scholer & tzadik.
26
Nov 29, 2009 at 03:11 AM arie Says:
here are some facts.
1 The old fab 8 worked production 12 shifts per week. I Observant Jew was able
to work a full 186 hours per month just working his asigned shifts. that is the way I
worked 13 years at fab 8.
2.When fab 8 closed if you were a observant jew you dropped down to about 80%
of your job as the fab in kiryat gat works 14 shifts including shabbat.If you were not
a observant Jew you were forced to work shabbat or leave intel.
I know most of my friends from fab 8 were unable to take the pressure and agreed to work shabbat in kiryat gat.
Now to say there is no change to the status-quo is a untruth.
I do not agree with protests against secular freedom.
The above are facts not fiction.
Arie