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Israel - Charedim Clash at Rally Against Intel Plant, Rabbi Weiss Pushed By Police, Protesres Call Officers Nazis [Video] |
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News Source: AFP - Haaretz
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An Israeli policeman escorts an Charedi Jewish protester during a demonstration outside Intel (edit)
Angry shouts of "Shabbat, Shabbat" rose from outside the Jerusalem plant, where many sported black fedoras or large wheel-shaped fur hats and gowns traditionally worn by the Haredi, as the ultra-Orthodox Jews call themselves.
Police were out in force and repeatedly chased protesters out of the factory's parking lot.
Factory guards hurled water at the protesters, who threw rocks and spat at journalists.
Four demonstrators were arrested, police said.
The Haredis are outraged at the factory's decision to operate on Saturdays, which they see as a grave desecration of the Jewish holy day of rest.
The Intel protest follows a series of sometimes violent demonstrations by ultra-Orthodox people against the opening of a Jerusalem car park on the Jewish Shabbat, which runs from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.
About 200 protesters gathered again Saturday against the opening of the car park, police said.
Ultra-Orthodox Jews are concerned the moves contribute to the secularisation of Jerusalem, a holy city where the Haredi community makes up about one-third of the 750,000 population.
The protests were sharply condemned by Israel's mainstream media which ridiculed the claim that the Saturday protests do not desecrate Shabbat since they aim at saving it.
The Jerusalem Post decried what it called bullying by "a scowling ultra-Orthodox minority."
"Sometimes it seems as if there's an evil mastermind out there determined to make Jewish tradition, observance and ritual seem repellent, retrograde even ridiculous to as many unaffiliated and secular Jews as possible," the English-language newspaper said.
Some of the protesters spat at the officers and verbally assaulted them, calling them "Nazis" and calling in Yiddish for desecrators of the Sabbath to be put to death.
The police, by contrast, showed considerable restraint, blocking the path rather than actively dispersing the demonstration. Despite the considerable violence, police tried to avoid arrests so as not to escalate the clashes even further. Nevertheless, three protesters were arrested and two others detained. After some two hours of clashes, police began pushing the crowd back toward an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood.
During the week, mainstream ultra-Orthodox rabbis reached a compromise agreement with Intel, but the leader of the Eda, Rabbi Yitzchak Tuvia Weiss, ordered his acolytes onto the streets again.
Ultra-orthodox sources said yesterday that Rabbi Weiss himself was pushed at one stage by the police. The incident outraged the demonstrators, who demanded police to show more respect for the 87-year-old rabbi.
The protests led to the closure of Golda Meir Boulevard in north Jerusalem, an important traffic artery. Jerusalem city councillor Elisha Peleg (Likud), said yesterday that this was "an ultra-Orthodox terrorist attack," and urged police to keep major Jerusalem thoroughfares open.
Meanwhile, secular organizations began some initial counter-protests. Intel had asked counter-protesters not to attend the ultra-Orthodox demonstrations, saying it may escalate the situation. However, the "Forum of Organizations for a Free Jerusalem" staged some preemptive actions in the area of the plant, writing graffiti on sidewalks with slogans including "We'll talk about Shabbat when you work the rest of the week." A more radical group of secular activists sprayed graffiti against Rabbi Weiss, including "Rabbi Weiss is a son of a whore," and dropping pornographic materials in the area of the protests.
The verbal and physical violence by the protesters represents a transgression of limitations set last summer by Rabbi Weiss, after officers warned him they may not be able to control their men if they continue to be subjected to spits and taunts. Over the last three month, the Edah rabbis warned not to physically assault police and particularly not to spit at them. None of these precautions appeared to be heeded yesterday.
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Read Comments (126) — Post Yours »
1
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:08 PM Anonymous Says:
Why don't the security police simply use tear gas or pepper spray against these dreche yidden rather than treating them with such respect. They have to be taught that they don't have the right to trespass or restrict the rights of either goyim or yidden to be mechaalel shabbos if thats what they choose to do. EY is a democracy and tolerating these rioters every shabbos only makes them come back the next week.
2
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:08 PM Anonymous Says:
how about causing yidden to mechalel shabbos to tend to them during this chiul hahsem deomnstration...a bunch of hiprocrits. shame on these so called charadim. i would gives these shamful people a penny when they come to the usa for tzedaka.
3
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:22 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:
The police should just arrest all of these idiots. The chillul hashem is disgraceful. These protesters are not yiddin, they are taliban idol worshipers.
4
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:09 PM Anonymous Says:
I've thought that we should expel the chariedim from eretz yisorel but what country would wnat ot take them.
5
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:56 PM Anonymous Says:
"Factory guards hurled water at the protesters, who threw rocks and spat at journalists. "
I see the water. I see the police beating protesters. I see the protesters yelling. How is it that in all the footage these journalists took none includes rocks being thrown at them, or them being spit at?
6
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why don't the security police simply use tear gas or pepper spray against these dreche yidden rather than treating them with such respect. They have to be taught that they don't have the right to trespass or restrict the rights of either goyim or yidden to be mechaalel shabbos if thats what they choose to do. EY is a democracy and tolerating these rioters every shabbos only makes them come back the next week. ”
On the clip we can only see how chareidim are getting pushed and hit by the police not the other way around.
7
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:55 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I've thought that we should expel the chariedim from eretz yisorel but what country would wnat ot take them. ”
A more radical group of secular activists sprayed graffiti against Rabbi Weiss, including "Rabbi Weiss is a son of a whore," and dropping pornographic materials.
these are the seculars that try to impose their secularism on us.
8
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:11 PM ish chusid Says:
“ "Factory guards hurled water at the protesters, who threw rocks and spat at journalists. "
I see the water. I see the police beating protesters. I see the protesters yelling. How is it that in all the footage these journalists took none includes rocks being thrown at them, or them being spit at? ”
i challenge anyone reading this to go to one of these protests and view for themselves the great "restraint" of the Israel police and all the "rocks being thrown", I myself am no big supporter of all these things but I can vouch for the fact that I have been to the protests before for fun and in general the police don't show much restraintt, and although there is lots of shouting I have never seen any of these rocks being thrown and the miniscule amount real chilul Hashem perpetrated by frum people is not by the very frum looking ones but mostly by yeshiva dropouts (who go along for fun).
9
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:
If Israel Is A Democracy_ Not A Jewish State Than The Arabs Will Want Equal Rights Also . .
10
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:
what makes a rabbi mainstrem
11
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:14 PM yanke Says:
This is another example of self hating jews making comments online..all you see on this footage is cops pushing jews water thrown at jews...no spitting or rock throwing by anyone who is Jewish...
The bottom line is Israel is a country which does not respect the toreh or jews..and never has...the pope gets more respect then a 87 year old rebbe who knows so much toreh..
And only hashem will put a end to this chutzpah I"h
12
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:10 PM Anonymous Says:
what is Wrong with these people,they are creating a huge chilul hashem that can be seen around the world,and people can point to this and say you see jews and especially orthodox jews are animals...
13
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:08 PM Mevakesh Emes Says:
It is so sad when I check the news on Motzoi Shabbos and see things like this.
These very sick Yidden, are not only causing a enormous Chilul Hashem, but are causing even more Chilul Shabbos by protesting. The kina is on the highest level, but so misdirected. If they would go to shul and daven for Intel to do teshuva, which is kina coming from a place of love and empathy, Am Yisroel would be better for it.
I invite every Yid who reads this to ask themselves the following questions:
Do you really think that people will keep Shabbos because of this?
Is this an example of "דרכיה דרכי נועם וכל נתיבותיה שלום"?
Do I want them to represent me because we wear the same clothes and speak the same language?
Is this the pshat of "אור לגויים"?
Is this what הקב"ה wants from us, especially on Shabbos itself, the Holiest Day in our lives, where our behavior influences the entire Universe for the following week?
14
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:17 PM Charedi Bashing Says:
As usual the zionist propaganda machine is at work... Notice the father being pushed with his young son clenching his hand (looking terrified) at 2:32. Did anyone see rock throwing by the Charedi in the video? Anyone see spitting or physical violence being perpetrated by the charedi in the video? Just as the goyim turn Jews into a scapegoats when times are tough ( like these economic times ) so too do the zionists in the medinah do the same. Only since the majority of Israelis are secular Jews they attack Gd Fearing Torah Jews because they are the minority. THey hold on to the old ways and defend the namesakes of our forefathers. The sad irony of course is that while the secular zionists believe a strong army keeps Israel safe it is the Charedi who keep HKBH's mercy on the state. For if not for their being some righteous left our enemies would have prevailed long ago. Its time to stop the charedi bashing!
15
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:19 PM Anonymous Says:
wow the first 4 comment are amazing i though i was reading a secular website. it's pretty pathetic how you guys have no idea whats really going on and just believe anything you read. The video shows what is really going on most of the time, cops pushing the charedim, water getting thrown at the charedim etc. Get the point? The charedim are not so bad, they just want Yerushlayim to stay holy and that major stuff should not be open on Shabbos.
16
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:33 PM NYthinker Says:
“ The police should just arrest all of these idiots. The chillul hashem is disgraceful. These protesters are not yiddin, they are taliban idol worshipers. ”
Be carefull of the way you speak and write. Rav Weiss is a great sage and these people, agree or disagree, are following his orders. He understands the halochos of chillul HaShem at-least as well as you and #3 do. Its obvious that neither of you ever witnessed an actual demonstration. And the democracy argument runs contrary to reality and is so hypocritical that it doesn't merit a response. Remember, there is no refuah for someone who shames a talmid chochom.
17
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:
When they asked belz to join these protest's the belze rabbi told them that he has an outreach organization and a yeshivah for bale tshuveh and that way he does his part to bring secular people to abide the torah.
18
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:29 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ This is another example of self hating jews making comments online..all you see on this footage is cops pushing jews water thrown at jews...no spitting or rock throwing by anyone who is Jewish...
The bottom line is Israel is a country which does not respect the toreh or jews..and never has...the pope gets more respect then a 87 year old rebbe who knows so much toreh..
And only hashem will put a end to this chutzpah I"h ”
Respect is earned. Or it isn't. One cannot demand respect. One can only command respect by ones actions and words.
19
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:27 PM jew from jerusalem Says:
Dear readers,
I have taken it upon myself not to purchase anything or contribute to anything that has to do with the Bedatz edah charedit, if you would like to make a difference please do the same, every individual action adds up!
20
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:25 PM hoply Says:
this is the way to go ! we are all standing togather with our bros in israel
21
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:07 PM Anonymous Says:
“ On the clip we can only see how chareidim are getting pushed and hit by the police not the other way around. ”
out of 2000 protestrs at least 1995 did not threow rocks or spit so the press couldnt find the 5 that may have but hey nake it sound like everybody did because they hate chareidim
22
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:02 PM Gefilte Fish Says:
“ Why don't the security police simply use tear gas or pepper spray against these dreche yidden rather than treating them with such respect. They have to be taught that they don't have the right to trespass or restrict the rights of either goyim or yidden to be mechaalel shabbos if thats what they choose to do. EY is a democracy and tolerating these rioters every shabbos only makes them come back the next week. ”
"EY is a democracy" and therefore they have a right to protest! And even if it wouldn't be, every jew has an obligation to be moche against chillul shabbos, democracy or not.
23
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:02 PM shimon Says:
After the parking lot and the arrested mother we all new there will be more protests. They were just looking for a reason. BTW I believe we should protest chillul shabbos, but not THIS way. As a descandant of kedoshim who died in shoah it hurts me to hear when they call israeli police "nazis"...
24
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:47 PM Anonymous Says:
there should be a protest at these types of protest against the chillul shabbos of these so called eida /mikva yiddin . what a grave chillul hashem they are causing
25
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:39 PM Anonymous Says:
they have all the right in the world to protest just because you people dont care about shabbos as much as they do SHABBOS SHABBOS
26
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:38 PM yid Says:
Kidush hashem
27
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:42 PM Anonymous Says:
“ A more radical group of secular activists sprayed graffiti against Rabbi Weiss, including "Rabbi Weiss is a son of a whore," and dropping pornographic materials.
these are the seculars that try to impose their secularism on us. ”
No, you idiot. The reason the secular despise us so at this point is because we denegrate them so. Spitting and calling people nazis will not bring out the best in people. What happened to kiruv? Give me a break. I don't know what motivates these hooligans but I guarantee you that torah has nothing to do with it. Many are the cases is history where people wrap their twisted motives in religious robes. I can tell you whatever hope anyone had of influencing the seculars to frumkeit have set back many many decades.
28
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:39 PM Oy Vey! Says:
Woe to the hands that dared to push and shove the Gadol hador Rav Weiss, torah chigri sak!
Woe to the people who sent those beasts to touch the holy body of this real gadol, and woe to all who defend those torah predators, the israeli mishtara.
29
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Dear readers,
I have taken it upon myself not to purchase anything or contribute to anything that has to do with the Bedatz edah charedit, if you would like to make a difference please do the same, every individual action adds up! ”
How about boycotting Israel and not buying anything that comes from Israel? for their brutality and way of treating charedi Jews, it's getting worse by the minute, sickening and nauseating.
30
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:35 PM mottel Says:
“ Dear readers,
I have taken it upon myself not to purchase anything or contribute to anything that has to do with the Bedatz edah charedit, if you would like to make a difference please do the same, every individual action adds up! ”
All you're doing is denying yourself the merit of being a 'mehane talmid chochom mi'nechosov'. And to all of you who are so poisoned by hate, screaming 'democracy'; what is more democratic than allowing non-violent demonstrations?
31
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:25 PM FBF Says:
Chillul Hashem Chillul Hashem Chillul Hashem. If all of you who think this is a kiddush hashem then get a life!!
I would like to know what our leadership (Agudah etc...) thinks about this situation. Why don't they come out with an opinion?? Do they hold like R Elyashiv who agreed to the compromise of just non-jews working?
Never in my life have I had such bad feelings to frum jews. I feel such disgust that I don't want to be frum anymore!!!! I wonder how the kiruv org deal with this bad publicity? I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to be a frum jew. With this issue, molestation, white collar crimes etc....
The Agudah convention is THIS week. AGUDAH, we are watching you this week to see if there are any changes to the current "crisises". If you are REAL leaders you will start making changes. Not just words, REAL action.
32
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:47 PM knowitall Says:
I wonder if these protestors show the same passion when the same soldiers are killed or maimed protecting them from the Arabs. Perhaps, if they were makir tov to the government and the army, then maybe they would listen to them. You can't only demand without ever giving.
33
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:13 PM Ari Says:
It is a shameful Chilul Hashem, i am Chasiddish , and know for a fact that all of the Gedolim from years ago including the Heilige Rebbes of Belz, Ger, Vishnitz and all of the Litvishe Gedolim were against protests and they believed in talkng nice to them and davening to Hashem that every Yid should do Teshuva and boy did it help, look at the thousands of Bale Teshuva in Israel today, not one of them became like this from screaming on them Nazi or throwing stones at them, only thru being mekarev them..
Rav Tuvia Weiss happens to be a Gadol and a big Talmin Chacham and big Erliche Yid, he only is doing this beacuse it is his job as Gavad, this is part of his job that he has to listen and agree to whatever the Leidigeieres tell him...
It is a shame what is happening there...To all out there ..say some Tehillim every day and daven that every Yid should become Shomer Torah Umitzvos, i assure you it will help...
34
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:12 PM Anonymous Says:
When I was small, I was taught never to let anybody take my picture on Shabbat!! When I see this, I see the charedim who are demonstrating -- they are wore than Intel!! Intel hired only non-jewish workers but the charedim are Jewish and they know that the press is there!! They know their pictures are being taken!! That is worse!!
35
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:11 PM Donny Says:
Protesting open factories on Shabbos doesn't keep Yerushalayim holy. There is nothing wrong with non-Jews working on Shabbos, and it isn't an insult to Shabbos at all. A chillul Hashem is an insult.
36
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:59 PM Anonymous Says:
The cops with olive drab and black vests are Yamam/Yamas (SWAT). They are usually swift and overwhelming in use of tactics. You can see their tactics every time they arrest Arab rioters. Here you see them tootsy-playing with Charedi rioters and not using chemical sprays, water canons, stunt grenades as they normally do against Arab or secular protesters. You would never see an Israeli senior commander being verbally shouted at or shoved. These Charedi are so self absorbed that they don't appreciate the soft handiness approach from Israeli government. The Arabs are jealous of how the Israeli Police treat Charedi rioters.
Now, Israel is a secular state, not a biblical country run by Sanhedrin. It can not function or survive if the entire economy operated on Charedi principals. Not only do the Charedi play a little role in contributing to Israeli economy or scientific/technological knowledge, they now try to interfere with mega corporations from operating inside Israel. I hope they do comprehend that they won't stop Intel from operating, nor will they bring Jews closer to the religion by acting like Pakistani tribal warlords who bully or turn to violence against everyone.
37
Nov 21, 2009 at 07:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ As usual the zionist propaganda machine is at work... Notice the father being pushed with his young son clenching his hand (looking terrified) at 2:32. Did anyone see rock throwing by the Charedi in the video? Anyone see spitting or physical violence being perpetrated by the charedi in the video? Just as the goyim turn Jews into a scapegoats when times are tough ( like these economic times ) so too do the zionists in the medinah do the same. Only since the majority of Israelis are secular Jews they attack Gd Fearing Torah Jews because they are the minority. THey hold on to the old ways and defend the namesakes of our forefathers. The sad irony of course is that while the secular zionists believe a strong army keeps Israel safe it is the Charedi who keep HKBH's mercy on the state. For if not for their being some righteous left our enemies would have prevailed long ago. Its time to stop the charedi bashing! ”
why the heck did he bring his kid there? is the father crazy, who brings a kid to a demonstration. just shows how insane these people are....why would any secular yid ever want to keep shabbos if this is how charadi jews act. sick!!!shame on you, shame on these wacos!!!shame!!!
38
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:59 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why don't the security police simply use tear gas or pepper spray against these dreche yidden rather than treating them with such respect. They have to be taught that they don't have the right to trespass or restrict the rights of either goyim or yidden to be mechaalel shabbos if thats what they choose to do. EY is a democracy and tolerating these rioters every shabbos only makes them come back the next week. ”
all of the posts are disusting. you don't have to agree with them, but how can you call chareidim "taliban idol worshippers" or that they "should be expelled". they are standing up for something that we all believe in. you should all be ashamed of yourselves for talking about fellow yidden this way.
And regarding the posts about not giving meshulachim money is ridiculous. The percentage of people that were protesting in relation to the potential people who come to collect is miniscule.
39
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why don't the security police simply use tear gas or pepper spray against these dreche yidden rather than treating them with such respect. They have to be taught that they don't have the right to trespass or restrict the rights of either goyim or yidden to be mechaalel shabbos if thats what they choose to do. EY is a democracy and tolerating these rioters every shabbos only makes them come back the next week. ”
Let's get something straight. EY is not a democracy. Medinat Yisrael is. Herein lies the problem. Think long and hard before espousing secular propaganda. That is not a position for a frum Jew. If you want to challenge the approach based on practicality or the chilul Hashem or being gorem Jewish police to be mechalel shabbos, we can debate. Don't make the preposterous claim that EY is a democracy.
40
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:45 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I've thought that we should expel the chariedim from eretz yisorel but what country would wnat ot take them. ”
if you get rid of the chareidim, "Israel" would cease to exist, for in the merit of the rightous who live there, there has not been a holocaust there.
Israel has no redeeming qualities on its own.
41
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:45 PM Richard Nixon Says:
Can anyone tell me how long the Intel plant has been operating on Shabbos? Did this just start? Is this a new plant or have they been around a while a now started operating on Shabbos bah"r?
42
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I've thought that we should expel the chariedim from eretz yisorel but what country would wnat ot take them. ”
How about all the Mchalal Shabbos should be expeld! Its a jewish state!
43
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:44 PM Anonymous Says:
The chilonim act in a disgusting manner, and its barely mantioned, and not even stated in negative light.
Sure, there were a few bad hooligans, but this makes it seem like the majority of us were doing this. Please note that the police shot water hoses for us saying "shabbos". theyre always the first to get physical, then they complain about us rioting.
Such distorted articles make me sick.
44
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:43 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The police should just arrest all of these idiots. The chillul hashem is disgraceful. These protesters are not yiddin, they are taliban idol worshipers. ”
What makes them Taliban. In the state of Israel their is a law that all companies must be closed on Shabbos so what's different here and if you are Jewish like you say by opening your mouth and condoning the opening of the factory you are being michalel shabbos
45
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:40 PM mogo Says:
I'm confused, on the one hand,I see ppl who are sticking up for hashem and his shabbos, on the other hand, I see them doing it in a way of hate as opposed to a way of love...now, I don't hate them or despise them, cuz their intentions are to stick-up for hashem, however, I wish it would/could be attained in a way of peacfull understanding. The way some of these ppl post on this blog is reminisint of charedi-hating blogs, the way they bash their own blood, miss-guided as the perceive it.
46
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:40 PM Anonny Says:
Now that a compromise has been reached, whereby only non-Jewish workers will work there on Shabbos, the continued protesting proves what many of us have know all along: these protests have nothing to do with Shabbos. They are merely a "heter" for bored Eida-niks to have some Shabbos afternoon action.
47
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:40 PM jancsi Says:
the crazed ones are at it again they are so out of touch with reality that it boggles the mind they live in their own make beleive world and have no knowledged how the real world operates they need to know they are not the ones who have the truth as their own and today we live in a democratic world not a dictatorship like they would want it to be like in iran where their wholier then thou muhlahs ruined the whole country and are fighting with the rest of the world this is not the jewish way
48
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:30 PM Anonymous Says:
strange how the video contradicts the media report. The police are pushing and chasing protesters. They are indeed nazis.
49
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:18 PM A. Nuran Says:
Terrorism is defined as unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments.
This is clearly terrorism. The government needs to start treating it as such. If Arab terrorists who throw stones get pepper spray and rubber bullets the Tallitbanis should get the same. Since they are pretty much without exception physical cowards it shouldn't take too many lessons before they learn that attempted murder - stoning is absolutely deadly force under any sort of law, vandalism and rioting will hurt. I wouldn't expect them to understand that it is bad to riot, spit on others or try to kill them. That seems to be beyond their basic humanity. But at least they can be taught that it will have consequences.
50
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:23 PM Shomer Torah Says:
Reading the posts and comments you can easily see the sharp contrasts and clear reflections of the comments.
On one side there are people who would always and ALWAYS jump to show support for secularists and apikorsim (regardless the issue or specific story), those are usually half frum people or secularists themselves.
On the other hand there are many that would usually try to defend the frum and observant yidden, and thos are usually torah observant jews themselves and jew lovers.
So it's absolutely no surprise for me to see how many bloggers would jump now to bad mouth all frum yidden and justify the wild and absurd actions of the secular police and government.
It's basically a concept of "Eisav soneh l'Yaakov", and sinas am haaretz letalmid chochom".
51
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:22 PM OMG Says:
“ Can anyone tell me how long the Intel plant has been operating on Shabbos? Did this just start? Is this a new plant or have they been around a while a now started operating on Shabbos bah"r? ”
They are working on Shabbos for 25 years.
52
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ strange how the video contradicts the media report. The police are pushing and chasing protesters. They are indeed nazis. ”
Do you know what the Nazis Y"ms were ? Are you familiar what they did ? How dare you call a Yid a Nazi ??? You and all those that dare call any Yid a Nazi should do lots of teshiva!! Shame on you !!
53
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:16 PM Fred E Says:
As much as I'm NOT a hareidi (or even orthodox) Jew, I was under the impression that the State of Israel has "blue laws" that prohibit places of business from employing Jews on the Sabbath. While I abhor the "talibization" of the State of Israel that the hareidim seem to be trying to enforce, I believe that "blue laws" are beneficial to society for keeping one day of the week as a day of rest where normal work stops. In the USA, we've been denied our Sundays as a "day off" much to the detriment of society.
54
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Chillul Hashem Chillul Hashem Chillul Hashem. If all of you who think this is a kiddush hashem then get a life!!
I would like to know what our leadership (Agudah etc...) thinks about this situation. Why don't they come out with an opinion?? Do they hold like R Elyashiv who agreed to the compromise of just non-jews working?
Never in my life have I had such bad feelings to frum jews. I feel such disgust that I don't want to be frum anymore!!!! I wonder how the kiruv org deal with this bad publicity? I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to be a frum jew. With this issue, molestation, white collar crimes etc....
The Agudah convention is THIS week. AGUDAH, we are watching you this week to see if there are any changes to the current "crisises". If you are REAL leaders you will start making changes. Not just words, REAL action. ”
Aha, so the whole reason of you being frum is just how the media looks at you, and I always thought that being frum and ehrlich has something to do with the Ribono she'll olam..
55
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:00 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I wonder if these protestors show the same passion when the same soldiers are killed or maimed protecting them from the Arabs. Perhaps, if they were makir tov to the government and the army, then maybe they would listen to them. You can't only demand without ever giving. ”
What does one have to do with another? does this give the right for the police to physically assault a great grand rabbi? we we up to?
This is the biggest chilul hashem, chilul hashem!!!
56
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Woe to the hands that dared to push and shove the Gadol hador Rav Weiss, torah chigri sak!
Woe to the people who sent those beasts to touch the holy body of this real gadol, and woe to all who defend those torah predators, the israeli mishtara. ”
"Woe to the hands that dared to push and shove the Gadol hador Rav Weiss"
First, you are probably the only one who coniders Weiss
"a gadol hador", much less someone who even warrent respect from the police. If the reav had any role in promoting these illegal demonstrations, than they should have just jailed him for inciting to riot. Treating these demonstrator with respect only promotes more demonstratons.
57
Nov 21, 2009 at 08:56 PM Police brutality Says:
“ No, you idiot. The reason the secular despise us so at this point is because we denegrate them so. Spitting and calling people nazis will not bring out the best in people. What happened to kiruv? Give me a break. I don't know what motivates these hooligans but I guarantee you that torah has nothing to do with it. Many are the cases is history where people wrap their twisted motives in religious robes. I can tell you whatever hope anyone had of influencing the seculars to frumkeit have set back many many decades. ”
Calling someone idiot doesn't make your more accepted, it does just the opposite.
Now to the pint, did you see on any picture or video even one incident where a charedi is spitting at a journalist?? thay all had cameras there, if it ever happened, where is the footage or picture of it? atleast one picture? no! there is none! cuz it never happened.
One thing is clear and can be seen on all video footages of the protest, police hit and push charedim, and they push the 90 year old Rabbi Weiss.
Shame on the Israeli police for behaving like what they're being called like.. they are worst of the worst,a nd they are making a big chillul Hashem by claiming that they represent the jewish state.
58
Nov 21, 2009 at 06:29 PM Disgusted Says:
This can't be appropriate according to halacha. And even if it is, watching this makes me rethink becoming a Baal Teshuva. Is this the future of my family????
59
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:36 PM Anonymous Says:
if only somone can explaine what this will achieve if anything?
60
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:35 PM pheffer Says:
I love how they make a mountain out of a molehill its great now as someone who was at the intel protest today myself I'd like to add in my two cents to all of you sitting on ur berries in the u.s. Commenting as if u were there "arrest those idiots omg" lmao #1 there were no rocks thrown aside from a'coupla shababnickz who decided to take things into their own hands and threw at cars passing by boom ud watch the windshields crack lol what entertainment, but on a serious note the ppl for the most part I could say 80% safely were there for one reason and one reason only l'sheym shmayim and there really wasn't much violance they just came to be "moicher" and vent and express about how they feel (freedom of speech) and the cops will agree the only reason why there was so many officers, magav, tasam etc....was to prevent those 20% of troublemakers from entering the intel building, @ any rate for all those who sit on ur berries commenting how terrible these things are, why don't u put urself into their(the chareidim-yerushalmis-heimishe) who live in yerushalayim (ihr hakoidesh) and watch how such a thing comes and just stepps right on ur toes, let's see how u'd react.......
61
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:31 PM MIESQ Says:
After seening the video I am unsure if these protests enhance or diminish the sacntity of Shabbat.?
I find it hard to understand the thinking of those who wish to protect chilull Shabbat. Doesn't anyone in government realize the operation of businesses like Intel and the resulting offense caused to residents of the city not only waste municipal resources that could be put to better use the polarization between Seculars and Charaidim only becomes greater.
The video although from the secular side showed images that should sicken anyone senstive Jewish unity and Kavod Shamaiyim
62
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:45 PM Anonymous Says:
mark my word "THIS WILL NOT ACHIEVE ANYTHING"
63
Nov 21, 2009 at 09:59 PM Anonymous Says:
“ how about causing yidden to mechalel shabbos to tend to them during this chiul hahsem deomnstration...a bunch of hiprocrits. shame on these so called charadim. i would gives these shamful people a penny when they come to the usa for tzedaka. ”
Give your money to the peacy loving yeshivah of your choice , we don't need your $
64
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:07 PM Anonymous Says:
Not sure if they right or wrong but that's the only way to go and that was proven to work..... and bythwy there use to be a law in israel that business have to be closed on shabbos
65
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:07 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ What does one have to do with another? does this give the right for the police to physically assault a great grand rabbi? we we up to?
This is the biggest chilul hashem, chilul hashem!!!
”
What the heck is a 'grand rabbi'??? I've heard of yorah yorah, yodin yodin and even rav u'moreh. Is 'grand rabbi' the kind of smichah one can buy for a grand?
66
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Calling someone idiot doesn't make your more accepted, it does just the opposite.
Now to the pint, did you see on any picture or video even one incident where a charedi is spitting at a journalist?? thay all had cameras there, if it ever happened, where is the footage or picture of it? atleast one picture? no! there is none! cuz it never happened.
One thing is clear and can be seen on all video footages of the protest, police hit and push charedim, and they push the 90 year old Rabbi Weiss.
Shame on the Israeli police for behaving like what they're being called like.. they are worst of the worst,a nd they are making a big chillul Hashem by claiming that they represent the jewish state. ”
Eh, go look at first video at around 2:30 mark. right after the screaming Nazi, you will see a kid spitting.
67
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:11 PM chusidwb Says:
“ It is so sad when I check the news on Motzoi Shabbos and see things like this.
These very sick Yidden, are not only causing a enormous Chilul Hashem, but are causing even more Chilul Shabbos by protesting. The kina is on the highest level, but so misdirected. If they would go to shul and daven for Intel to do teshuva, which is kina coming from a place of love and empathy, Am Yisroel would be better for it.
I invite every Yid who reads this to ask themselves the following questions:
Do you really think that people will keep Shabbos because of this?
Is this an example of "דרכיה דרכי נועם וכל נתיבותיה שלום"?
Do I want them to represent me because we wear the same clothes and speak the same language?
Is this the pshat of "אור לגויים"?
Is this what הקב"ה wants from us, especially on Shabbos itself, the Holiest Day in our lives, where our behavior influences the entire Universe for the following week? ”
With all due respect to you, you do have valid points . But,do you think Intel should be able do mechalel shabbos in yesrushalayim unchecked? Won't this be an example that a lot of seculars will follow? Did you or an organization you know, try negotiate with intel with darkei shalom? I know that after last weeks protest there was a breaktrough that rabbi eliyashev was in agreement with . Did you read the statements before the protest of last week ? Intel said then with defiane that they would not compromise, after the protest , they started negotiating.Did the protest help , you tell me . Protesting in a lawfull and peacefull manner is called for ,if we don't protest we are at fault .
68
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This can't be appropriate according to halacha. And even if it is, watching this makes me rethink becoming a Baal Teshuva. Is this the future of my family???? ”
if you don;t do anything, it is -- at the very least, take a hard look at moderate modern orthodoxy -- shomrei shabbat v'mitzvot combined with a sense of tolerance, fairness and equity you'll be proud to see your kids emulate
69
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:17 PM Anonymous Says:
As a good Zionist you believe that Israel is a JEWISH land due to our receiving it from Hakadosh Baruch HU as stated in the Torah. Then It is of most importance that the same Torah be followed.
CHILLUL SHABBOSS IS THE ULTIMATE CHILLUL HASHEM! that is why a Michallel Shabboss has the same Halocho as a GOY! his wine is nesech....
Do you find Jews fighting for the Torah requirements to be followed by a company in Yerushalayim by raising their vocies in protest to be a Chillul Hashem?
Why here in New Jersey all the malls and stores in Begen county are closed Sunday under the law! because Sunday is a day of rest for the Chr-istian majority. (It is known as the blue laws)
Why cant their be such a law in Yrushalayim?
70
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:14 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ Calling someone idiot doesn't make your more accepted, it does just the opposite.
Now to the pint, did you see on any picture or video even one incident where a charedi is spitting at a journalist?? thay all had cameras there, if it ever happened, where is the footage or picture of it? atleast one picture? no! there is none! cuz it never happened.
One thing is clear and can be seen on all video footages of the protest, police hit and push charedim, and they push the 90 year old Rabbi Weiss.
Shame on the Israeli police for behaving like what they're being called like.. they are worst of the worst,a nd they are making a big chillul Hashem by claiming that they represent the jewish state. ”
90 years old??? Wow! He aged three years since the artcle was posted right after shabbos. By tomorrow the story will get better. He will be over a hundred and the police pushed him after arresting his parents.
71
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:19 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Chillul Hashem Chillul Hashem Chillul Hashem. If all of you who think this is a kiddush hashem then get a life!!
I would like to know what our leadership (Agudah etc...) thinks about this situation. Why don't they come out with an opinion?? Do they hold like R Elyashiv who agreed to the compromise of just non-jews working?
Never in my life have I had such bad feelings to frum jews. I feel such disgust that I don't want to be frum anymore!!!! I wonder how the kiruv org deal with this bad publicity? I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to be a frum jew. With this issue, molestation, white collar crimes etc....
The Agudah convention is THIS week. AGUDAH, we are watching you this week to see if there are any changes to the current "crisises". If you are REAL leaders you will start making changes. Not just words, REAL action. ”
I feel such disgust that I don't want to be frum anymore!!!!
Then don't! Leave the fold. Bye tudeluu and don't ;et the door hit you on the way out!
72
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:20 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ They are working on Shabbos for 25 years. ”
So what has them riled up now, after two and a half thousand shabbosim?
73
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:29 PM chusidwb Says:
“ Dear readers,
I have taken it upon myself not to purchase anything or contribute to anything that has to do with the Bedatz edah charedit, if you would like to make a difference please do the same, every individual action adds up! ”
First off you are not a guy from jerusalem . Let me ask you, what are we protesting for? Are we protesting that we don't have a TV or because a certain chanel from the cable was taken away ? We are protesting for hashems holy shabbos. We are telling secular isrealis don't desecrate the holy shabbos . We are not protesting in soho in NYC ,we are protesting in YERUSHALAYIM which in my dictionary is the holiest place for the jewish nation . If there is any person that will not become a baal teshuva because of these protests, it is because when they ask some one why are these charedim protesting , the typical answer is because they are crazy. How about telling them that for some jews it bothers that hashems shabbos is being desicrated so they come out on shabbos and protest. But if some people say that we are violent ( which is a vile lie) of course they don't become balei teshuvah! Why is protesting for the release of johathan pollard (which I believe every jew should protest) less of a chillul hashem? What is wrong with protesting against the desecration of shabbos . For some people this hurts, not for all.
74
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:29 PM chusidwb Says:
“ Dear readers,
I have taken it upon myself not to purchase anything or contribute to anything that has to do with the Bedatz edah charedit, if you would like to make a difference please do the same, every individual action adds up! ”
First off you are not a guy from jerusalem . Let me ask you, what are we protesting for? Are we protesting that we don't have a TV or because a certain chanel from the cable was taken away ? We are protesting for hashems holy shabbos. We are telling secular isrealis don't desecrate the holy shabbos . We are not protesting in soho in NYC ,we are protesting in YERUSHALAYIM which in my dictionary is the holiest place for the jewish nation . If there is any person that will not become a baal teshuva because of these protests, it is because when they ask some one why are these charedim protesting , the typical answer is because they are crazy. How about telling them that for some jews it bothers that hashems shabbos is being desicrated so they come out on shabbos and protest. But if some people say that we are violent ( which is a vile lie) of course they don't become balei teshuvah! Why is protesting for the release of johathan pollard (which I believe every jew should protest) less of a chillul hashem? What is wrong with protesting against the desecration of shabbos . For some people this hurts, not for all.
75
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:31 PM chusidwb Says:
“ After the parking lot and the arrested mother we all new there will be more protests. They were just looking for a reason. BTW I believe we should protest chillul shabbos, but not THIS way. As a descandant of kedoshim who died in shoah it hurts me to hear when they call israeli police "nazis"... ”
I agree with you that N name is ugly . But ill tell you a secret that's the way they really act!
76
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:37 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What the heck is a 'grand rabbi'??? I've heard of yorah yorah, yodin yodin and even rav u'moreh. Is 'grand rabbi' the kind of smichah one can buy for a grand? ”
For example Rav Elyashiv is called a grand Rabbi, so is Rav Ovadia, and so is Rav Weiss.
77
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:36 PM chusidwb Says:
“ mark my word "THIS WILL NOT ACHIEVE ANYTHING" ”
You only know when charedim protest to say chilul hashem bla bla bla . Yes it did help, acording to what I read on VIN that intel has said they would employ non jews for shabbos . When did this happen , AFTER LAST WEEKS PROTEST!
78
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:48 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ if you get rid of the chareidim, "Israel" would cease to exist, for in the merit of the rightous who live there, there has not been a holocaust there.
Israel has no redeeming qualities on its own. ”
Being home to millions of bnai avraham yitzchok and yaakov is nothing??? Yiddin who are not yet shomer torah u'mitzvos are worthless? Yiddin who put thier lives on the line to defend eretz yisroel and the yiddin who live there do not deserve to live??? Wow, with such ahavas yisroel I can't imagine why all the chilonim have not yet dropped everything to enroll thier children in yeshiva. Oh, wait maybe they did but were turned away by someone like you because thier fathers has nebach served in the IDF.
79
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:47 PM Rangers Goalie Says:
“ Why don't the security police simply use tear gas or pepper spray against these dreche yidden rather than treating them with such respect. They have to be taught that they don't have the right to trespass or restrict the rights of either goyim or yidden to be mechaalel shabbos if thats what they choose to do. EY is a democracy and tolerating these rioters every shabbos only makes them come back the next week. ”
Pepper spray? Tear gas? I have a better idea for you. You know what I think the best for YOUR 'state" would be? I think it would be best for all "charaidim" and orthodox Jews to leave Israel! Then lets see what happens to that country. Yes get all the Torah learners, all the frum, all the Chasidim etc. out of your "state" and leave it to the secularists, reform, conservative, atheists, noonies, seventh day adventurers, normans, etc to live there and run the country. See how long it lasts.
80
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:46 PM Anonymous Says:
“ As a good Zionist you believe that Israel is a JEWISH land due to our receiving it from Hakadosh Baruch HU as stated in the Torah. Then It is of most importance that the same Torah be followed.
CHILLUL SHABBOSS IS THE ULTIMATE CHILLUL HASHEM! that is why a Michallel Shabboss has the same Halocho as a GOY! his wine is nesech....
Do you find Jews fighting for the Torah requirements to be followed by a company in Yerushalayim by raising their vocies in protest to be a Chillul Hashem?
Why here in New Jersey all the malls and stores in Begen county are closed Sunday under the law! because Sunday is a day of rest for the Chr-istian majority. (It is known as the blue laws)
Why cant their be such a law in Yrushalayim? ”
I asked this question allot of times! The satmer rebbi z"l has some answers for this in his sefarim if you care to look it up
81
Nov 21, 2009 at 10:52 PM Dr. E Says:
I think I'm missing something. Don't these people have other things they should be doing like davening, learning, spending time with their families, and eating? OK, so during the week they have time to protest because they don't work. But, on Shabbos?
82
Nov 21, 2009 at 11:18 PM chusidwb Says:
“ I think I'm missing something. Don't these people have other things they should be doing like davening, learning, spending time with their families, and eating? OK, so during the week they have time to protest because they don't work. But, on Shabbos? ”
I hope I never have to use u as my DR. Yes somtimes you have to close the gemara , give away family time . Your point was to give a SHTECH that we don't work all week . Very nice DR.!
83
Nov 21, 2009 at 11:28 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ I feel such disgust that I don't want to be frum anymore!!!!
Then don't! Leave the fold. Bye tudeluu and don't ;et the door hit you on the way out! ”
You are a funny guy. You tell one yid go ahead leave, who cares, and think we should all riot over other yiddin violating shabbos. Funny indeed.
84
Nov 21, 2009 at 11:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What the heck is a 'grand rabbi'??? I've heard of yorah yorah, yodin yodin and even rav u'moreh. Is 'grand rabbi' the kind of smichah one can buy for a grand? ”
And if he is a "plain" Rabbi, is it ok to assault him?? and this is no chilul Hashem?
85
Nov 21, 2009 at 11:19 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Chillul Hashem Chillul Hashem Chillul Hashem. If all of you who think this is a kiddush hashem then get a life!!
I would like to know what our leadership (Agudah etc...) thinks about this situation. Why don't they come out with an opinion?? Do they hold like R Elyashiv who agreed to the compromise of just non-jews working?
Never in my life have I had such bad feelings to frum jews. I feel such disgust that I don't want to be frum anymore!!!! I wonder how the kiruv org deal with this bad publicity? I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to be a frum jew. With this issue, molestation, white collar crimes etc....
The Agudah convention is THIS week. AGUDAH, we are watching you this week to see if there are any changes to the current "crisises". If you are REAL leaders you will start making changes. Not just words, REAL action. ”
U r right. This is the worst thing to happen to kiruv. The damage is huge.
86
Nov 21, 2009 at 11:38 PM Anonymous Says:
“ 90 years old??? Wow! He aged three years since the artcle was posted right after shabbos. By tomorrow the story will get better. He will be over a hundred and the police pushed him after arresting his parents. ”
You keep on getting off track and twisted. and if he's "only" 87? then it's ok to push and shove him around? and if he'd only be 84 it'd be ok to throw him around like a football?
You people are totally off it, you're hate to observant yidden just drives you off limits.
87
Nov 21, 2009 at 11:36 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ I hope I never have to use u as my DR. Yes somtimes you have to close the gemara , give away family time . Your point was to give a SHTECH that we don't work all week . Very nice DR.! ”
And a good shtech it was! Truth hurts, don't it?
88
Nov 21, 2009 at 11:33 PM Anonymous Says:
“ strange how the video contradicts the media report. The police are pushing and chasing protesters. They are indeed nazis. ”
YOU AND A LOT OF PEOPLE USE THE TERM NAZI IN DESCRIBING THE POLICE. iF THEY WERE LIKE THE NAZIS THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF DEAD
PEOPLE ON THE STREET. THERE WOULD BE NO PUSHING OR CHASING. DONT EVER USE NAMES THAT ARE COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT. THE POLICE HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT JOB AND DONT MAKE IT WORSE BY CALLING THEM NAMES WHICH THEY ARE NOT/
89
Nov 21, 2009 at 11:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ And a good shtech it was! Truth hurts, don't it? ”
OK, now you're jsut opening your insides, so ur whole idea here is to stech..
Sinas am haaretz letalmud chacham, it ain't a new thing, it started in the times of chazal.
90
Nov 21, 2009 at 11:24 PM OMG Says:
“ What does one have to do with another? does this give the right for the police to physically assault a great grand rabbi? we we up to?
This is the biggest chilul hashem, chilul hashem!!!
”
Anybody who goes to a pedophile’s sentencing hearing to show support for the pedophile, that tells me that the man doesn’t have das torah, that is what this “great grand Rabbi Weiss” did, he came all the way to NY and was in the courtroom when Weingarten was sentence for his misdeed.
91
Nov 21, 2009 at 11:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ And a good shtech it was! Truth hurts, don't it? ”
I guess that's why he's a DR. DR's give shtech's . Ha ha
92
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:03 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Why don't the security police simply use tear gas or pepper spray against these dreche yidden rather than treating them with such respect. They have to be taught that they don't have the right to trespass or restrict the rights of either goyim or yidden to be mechaalel shabbos if thats what they choose to do. EY is a democracy and tolerating these rioters every shabbos only makes them come back the next week. ”
Once again, NO YID HAS THE RIGHT TO BE MECHALEL SHABBOS, In EY or anywhere else. The minute you talk about the "right" of a yid to be mechalel shabbos nothing else you say is of any importance, because you expose yourself as an apikores. Whether the protests are right or wrong, you are definitely wrong, and your opinion has no place on an orthodox web site.
93
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:04 AM Anonymous Says:
I'd love to see the reaction when Rav Elyashiv or Rav Ovadia yosef would be pushed by police for whatever reason.. woe would we see some different types of comments here, but since it was a real frum Rav then its like "nisht geferlach"..
94
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:07 AM Anonymous Says:
Charedim, keep up the holy work, in this lawless state the only working method is protesting, they come as usual with water canons, tear gas and rubber bullets, they get wild and vicious. But Hashem will reimburse you for the mesiras nefesh.
95
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:07 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Woe to the hands that dared to push and shove the Gadol hador Rav Weiss, torah chigri sak!
Woe to the people who sent those beasts to touch the holy body of this real gadol, and woe to all who defend those torah predators, the israeli mishtara. ”
and dont forget woa to you
96
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:14 AM Anonymous Says:
Where are all "dina demalchusa dina" goody goodies now?
There's a law in Jerusalem that no business may be open on Shabbos.
Let's say you don't care about shabbos, you don't care about Torah, you hate all ehrliche tidden. OK. But what happened to "Israeli law"????
An answer please.
97
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:27 AM Milhouse Says:
“ When I was small, I was taught never to let anybody take my picture on Shabbat!! When I see this, I see the charedim who are demonstrating -- they are wore than Intel!! Intel hired only non-jewish workers but the charedim are Jewish and they know that the press is there!! They know their pictures are being taken!! That is worse!! ”
Who taught you such a silly thing? What issur is there in letting someone take your picture? The cameras are filiming; what difference does it make whether you're in the picture or not? The protesters are not responsible for your poor education.
98
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:38 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Where are all "dina demalchusa dina" goody goodies now?
There's a law in Jerusalem that no business may be open on Shabbos.
Let's say you don't care about shabbos, you don't care about Torah, you hate all ehrliche tidden. OK. But what happened to "Israeli law"????
An answer please. ”
oh so the chareidim from mea shearim came to enforce the israeli law?
99
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:38 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Now that a compromise has been reached, whereby only non-Jewish workers will work there on Shabbos, the continued protesting proves what many of us have know all along: these protests have nothing to do with Shabbos. They are merely a "heter" for bored Eida-niks to have some Shabbos afternoon action. ”
So the GABD R Tuvia Weiss is "a bored Eida-nik"?! What a chutzpah you have. I don't know exactly why R Weiss isn't happy with this compromise, but I do know that he must have a reason, and without knowing it neither you nor I can reject it. And if he thought this protest important enough to go out himself, bichvodo uve'atzmo, then מי הוא שראה את אלו יוצאין ולא יצא?
100
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:38 AM Anonymous Says:
a bunch of nut cases screaming dancing pushing and acting like or rather are a bunch of cheap hooligans im embarrassed to wear my shtreimel when the average goy that sees this will think im one of those ugly animals, im not going to bother explaining why i feel this is who the are all i will say is one thing, they think just of themselves and their lifestyles, beliefs and can not accept someone else's but they definitely appreciate the acception of governments accepting their lifestyle, there wailing whistles erev shabbos and all the other garbage that come along with there way of life talking about garbage why is mea shearim a smelly place and always topsy turby with garbage flying all over the place? at least when i was in yeshiva years ago.
101
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I'd love to see the reaction when Rav Elyashiv or Rav Ovadia yosef would be pushed by police for whatever reason.. woe would we see some different types of comments here, but since it was a real frum Rav then its like "nisht geferlach".. ”
"since it was a real frum rav, rather than Rav Elyashiv or Rav Ovadia yosef then its like "nisht geferlach"..
I'm not an expert on rabbonim and their comparative degrees of frumkeit, but Elyashiv and Yosef are both known to be orthodox and some would consider them ultra-orthodox.
102
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:01 AM Anonymous Says:
“ YOU AND A LOT OF PEOPLE USE THE TERM NAZI IN DESCRIBING THE POLICE. iF THEY WERE LIKE THE NAZIS THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF DEAD
PEOPLE ON THE STREET. THERE WOULD BE NO PUSHING OR CHASING. DONT EVER USE NAMES THAT ARE COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT. THE POLICE HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT JOB AND DONT MAKE IT WORSE BY CALLING THEM NAMES WHICH THEY ARE NOT/ ”
First make caps off.
When those uncivilized police officers start to act up and go wild, they're just reminding us of the Nazis.
Right, they don't shoot people on the street, but they perform the utmost brutality and viciousness possible, and this brings out the pain of the suffering people, and they give the officers the compliment they really deserve.
103
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:51 AM Milhouse Says:
“ "Woe to the hands that dared to push and shove the Gadol hador Rav Weiss"
First, you are probably the only one who coniders Weiss
"a gadol hador", much less someone who even warrent respect from the police. If the reav had any role in promoting these illegal demonstrations, than they should have just jailed him for inciting to riot. Treating these demonstrator with respect only promotes more demonstratons. ”
No, he is far from the only one. Not everyone may consider R Weiss the godol hador, but there is no question that he is a major talmid chochom and moreh horo'oh, and you have no right to speak of him with such disrespect.
104
Nov 22, 2009 at 01:09 AM Anonymous Says:
“ "Woe to the hands that dared to push and shove the Gadol hador Rav Weiss"
First, you are probably the only one who coniders Weiss
"a gadol hador", much less someone who even warrent respect from the police. If the reav had any role in promoting these illegal demonstrations, than they should have just jailed him for inciting to riot. Treating these demonstrator with respect only promotes more demonstratons. ”
If you don't know rav weiss don't even speak!
I know rav weiss for over 25 years and he is a real real godol in all ways
And btw he is a real open minded person all realy know what is going on in this world....
I'm with him for 100%!
105
Nov 22, 2009 at 01:27 AM Milhouse Says:
“ oh so the chareidim from mea shearim came to enforce the israeli law? ”
No, they came to enforce Hashem's law. But why were the police not enforcing the Israeli law? Intel has no permit to operate on Shabbos, but you're fine with that. Only when an erlicher yid breaks the law, then you get upset.
106
Nov 22, 2009 at 01:25 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Anybody who goes to a pedophile’s sentencing hearing to show support for the pedophile, that tells me that the man doesn’t have das torah, that is what this “great grand Rabbi Weiss” did, he came all the way to NY and was in the courtroom when Weingarten was sentence for his misdeed. ”
And you know better than him what is daas torah. If he was there, then that proves that it was right to be there.
107
Nov 22, 2009 at 01:16 AM Anonymous Says:
If they were nazis they would have mowed all these protestors down with machine guns.
108
Nov 22, 2009 at 05:01 AM Anonymous Says:
“ a bunch of nut cases screaming dancing pushing and acting like or rather are a bunch of cheap hooligans im embarrassed to wear my shtreimel when the average goy that sees this will think im one of those ugly animals, im not going to bother explaining why i feel this is who the are all i will say is one thing, they think just of themselves and their lifestyles, beliefs and can not accept someone else's but they definitely appreciate the acception of governments accepting their lifestyle, there wailing whistles erev shabbos and all the other garbage that come along with there way of life talking about garbage why is mea shearim a smelly place and always topsy turby with garbage flying all over the place? at least when i was in yeshiva years ago. ”
PLEASE stop wearing your shtriemal, don't embarrass shtreimal wearers
109
Nov 22, 2009 at 07:54 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ For example Rav Elyashiv is called a grand Rabbi, so is Rav Ovadia, and so is Rav Weiss. ”
Strange. I've been around yeshivos my whole life and never heard a frum yid use the term 'grand rabbi' except when refering to a chassidesh resbbeh to the media.
110
Nov 22, 2009 at 08:17 AM jew from jerusalem Says:
“ First off you are not a guy from jerusalem . Let me ask you, what are we protesting for? Are we protesting that we don't have a TV or because a certain chanel from the cable was taken away ? We are protesting for hashems holy shabbos. We are telling secular isrealis don't desecrate the holy shabbos . We are not protesting in soho in NYC ,we are protesting in YERUSHALAYIM which in my dictionary is the holiest place for the jewish nation . If there is any person that will not become a baal teshuva because of these protests, it is because when they ask some one why are these charedim protesting , the typical answer is because they are crazy. How about telling them that for some jews it bothers that hashems shabbos is being desicrated so they come out on shabbos and protest. But if some people say that we are violent ( which is a vile lie) of course they don't become balei teshuvah! Why is protesting for the release of johathan pollard (which I believe every jew should protest) less of a chillul hashem? What is wrong with protesting against the desecration of shabbos . For some people this hurts, not for all. ”
“ First off you are not a guy from jerusalem . Let me ask you, what are we protesting for? Are we protesting that we don't have a TV or because a certain chanel from the cable was taken away ? We are protesting for hashems holy shabbos. We are telling secular isrealis don't desecrate the holy shabbos . We are not protesting in soho in NYC ,we are protesting in YERUSHALAYIM which in my dictionary is the holiest place for the jewish nation . If there is any person that will not become a baal teshuva because of these protests, it is because when they ask some one why are these charedim protesting , the typical answer is because they are crazy. How about telling them that for some jews it bothers that hashems shabbos is being desicrated so they come out on shabbos and protest. But if some people say that we are violent ( which is a vile lie) of course they don't become balei teshuvah! Why is protesting for the release of johathan pollard (which I believe every jew should protest) less of a chillul hashem? What is wrong with protesting against the desecration of shabbos . For some people this hurts, not for all. ”
Yes, I do live in jerusalem and i have nothing against protesting for something you believe in, but all i want is a peacfull protest to bring out our point, when they made the friday night tefilah on rechov bar ilan i was there, but violence is NOT the way to do it,EVEN if everyone else is violent, WE are better than "everyone" else, WE are the chosen nation and WE should not act as "everyone" alse does. Because the Eidah charedit does not condone the violence (if they wanted it to stop it would have) I have lost my respect for them.
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Nov 22, 2009 at 03:18 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Where are all "dina demalchusa dina" goody goodies now?
There's a law in Jerusalem that no business may be open on Shabbos.
Let's say you don't care about shabbos, you don't care about Torah, you hate all ehrliche tidden. OK. But what happened to "Israeli law"????
An answer please. ”
Incorrect--there is only a requirement for a permit, which Intel has had for decades, and will have again, now that they have restarted production.
112
Nov 22, 2009 at 09:12 AM rochel Says:
a true beautiful example of yidden against yidden on the videos, and on the comments on VIN, where's ahavas yisroel ?
Shabbos should be the day these men stay at home with their children and wives and be concerned on spirituality...and the governement should make every effort to let the jews be at home for shabbos and not at work... so the chareidim could honor their shabbos meals with the secular jews for the beautiful mitzvah of hachnosas orchim... why do you all think ?
113
Nov 22, 2009 at 09:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“ No, they came to enforce Hashem's law. But why were the police not enforcing the Israeli law? Intel has no permit to operate on Shabbos, but you're fine with that. Only when an erlicher yid breaks the law, then you get upset. ”
The answer is very simple Milhouse. No one wants to live in a world where people they find disreputable (i.e. nonworking thugs) want the right to beat them with a stick. That's what you're advocating for.
The police are not trying to force the protestors to break Shabbat. As you yourself have said above you want to **force** every Jew, in Israel or America or anywhere, to keep Shabbat. Not because they believe in it or are at least willing, like all who celebrate Shabbat do today. But at the end of the boot or the stick or the gun.
114
Nov 22, 2009 at 09:57 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You are a funny guy. You tell one yid go ahead leave, who cares, and think we should all riot over other yiddin violating shabbos. Funny indeed. ”
The first line in my post was #31's quote.
115
Nov 22, 2009 at 10:23 AM formally Says:
“ if you get rid of the chareidim, "Israel" would cease to exist, for in the merit of the rightous who live there, there has not been a holocaust there.
Israel has no redeeming qualities on its own. ”
I think the secular are will to take that bet.
And we will see who has the last laugh. it is not the cherideim
116
Nov 22, 2009 at 10:25 AM formally Says:
“ Can anyone tell me how long the Intel plant has been operating on Shabbos? Did this just start? Is this a new plant or have they been around a while a now started operating on Shabbos bah"r? ”
20 years already
117
Nov 22, 2009 at 11:18 AM Anonymous Says:
“ a true beautiful example of yidden against yidden on the videos, and on the comments on VIN, where's ahavas yisroel ?
Shabbos should be the day these men stay at home with their children and wives and be concerned on spirituality...and the governement should make every effort to let the jews be at home for shabbos and not at work... so the chareidim could honor their shabbos meals with the secular jews for the beautiful mitzvah of hachnosas orchim... why do you all think ? ”
What happened to THE LAW that stores and businesses in Jerusalem have to be closed on Shabbos??
118
Nov 22, 2009 at 11:16 AM Anonymous Says:
“ a true beautiful example of yidden against yidden on the videos, and on the comments on VIN, where's ahavas yisroel ?
Shabbos should be the day these men stay at home with their children and wives and be concerned on spirituality...and the governement should make every effort to let the jews be at home for shabbos and not at work... so the chareidim could honor their shabbos meals with the secular jews for the beautiful mitzvah of hachnosas orchim... why do you all think ? ”
Interesting view, I was wondering WHERE IS THA AHAVAS YISROEL OF MANY COMMENTATORS BSAHING FRUM YIDDEN!!
Unfortunately to you, the mitzva of 'v'ahavta lereiacha kamocha" only applies to observant yidden. And many commentators show their lack of knowledge of the torah and her meanings.
119
Nov 22, 2009 at 10:53 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Incorrect--there is only a requirement for a permit, which Intel has had for decades, and will have again, now that they have restarted production. ”
What is incorrect? #96 correctly stated the law. It is illegal for a factory to run on Shabbos. Special permission can be obtained to be open on Shabbos in cases of necessity, but you've just admitted that Intel do NOT have this special permission. Therefore they are breaking the law. What is it that you don't understand about this. How is your prediction they will get such permission in the future at all relevant? Even if they do, they don't have it now, do they?
The bottom line is that Intel is blatantly breaking the law AND NOBODY CARES; so why should the frumme yidden respect the "law"?
120
Nov 22, 2009 at 11:40 AM chusidwb Says:
Stalin and the neologen from germany are all saying to themselfs "we didn't wipe off all of torah but most of it" . Most of jews today are non shomer shabbos , another part is shomer shabbos but not really proud of the fact . There is another small percent of yidden who are shomer shabbos and proud of it and will protest for it , and yes my freinds we are proud that we are from the small minority that still have that yiddishe spark of some kedusha . You use one phrase to mask your hate to yiddishkeit called"chilul hashem" the real cause for chilul hashem is your ingnoramus way of thinking. Just explain to would be balei tshuvah , that we are protesting for hashems shabbos , we are leaving our shabbos table to protest for a holy cause , don't tell them lies that we are violent cause that is not true. The first mitzvah before building of the mishkan was ? you tell me !! STOP THE CHILUL HASHEM!!!
121
Nov 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What happened to THE LAW that stores and businesses in Jerusalem have to be closed on Shabbos?? ”
I'm not Israeli b"h, so I have absolutely no idea what the law is... maybe you can help me but in my very own idea I think with all the non jews living in israel, christians and muslims, why not let them all work during shabbat ?
I don't know how it works over there !
my concern is for jews who work on shabbos, even if they are not religious and don't keep shabbos at least they sin less by going to work.
122
Nov 22, 2009 at 05:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I think the secular are will to take that bet.
And we will see who has the last laugh. it is not the cherideim ”
well it's 60 years already since this so called medina exists. If you know the history ,and what the zionists had in mind, and wanted with it's medina, you would understand, that the chareidim are laughing already, and the laugh is only becoming stronger!
If any of the zionists biggies would get up today from their grave, and see what happened to their dreams , and that's already after they succeeded to get a medina , they would kill themselves again and again !
123
Nov 22, 2009 at 09:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What is incorrect? #96 correctly stated the law. It is illegal for a factory to run on Shabbos. Special permission can be obtained to be open on Shabbos in cases of necessity, but you've just admitted that Intel do NOT have this special permission. Therefore they are breaking the law. What is it that you don't understand about this. How is your prediction they will get such permission in the future at all relevant? Even if they do, they don't have it now, do they?
The bottom line is that Intel is blatantly breaking the law AND NOBODY CARES; so why should the frumme yidden respect the "law"?
”
While its true that your interpretation as to the laws of the State of Israel and the municipal laws of Jerusalem means little to me and less, even were you right, no one has appointed the charedi community the enforcers of Israeli law. That would be those people the (so-called haredi) thugs spit and throw stones at.
124
Nov 23, 2009 at 06:37 AM was there Says:
you have to be there to see what realy is going on.
125
Nov 23, 2009 at 05:35 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I think the secular are will to take that bet.
And we will see who has the last laugh. it is not the cherideim ”
You'd lose!
Imagine a "jewish state" with nobody keeping Shabbos or eating kosher etc.
How long do you think it would it last?
Family planning, intermarriage and natural increase in the non-jewish population would probably fix it in one or two generations. 50 years at most.
No chareidem = no State of Israel. In your lifetime!
126
Nov 23, 2009 at 04:10 AM machlokes Says:
“ As usual the zionist propaganda machine is at work... Notice the father being pushed with his young son clenching his hand (looking terrified) at 2:32. Did anyone see rock throwing by the Charedi in the video? Anyone see spitting or physical violence being perpetrated by the charedi in the video? Just as the goyim turn Jews into a scapegoats when times are tough ( like these economic times ) so too do the zionists in the medinah do the same. Only since the majority of Israelis are secular Jews they attack Gd Fearing Torah Jews because they are the minority. THey hold on to the old ways and defend the namesakes of our forefathers. The sad irony of course is that while the secular zionists believe a strong army keeps Israel safe it is the Charedi who keep HKBH's mercy on the state. For if not for their being some righteous left our enemies would have prevailed long ago. Its time to stop the charedi bashing! ”
why would a father bring his son to such a protest. second if these charedim would go over to these people and invite them over for a shabbos meal it would make a world of a difference
127
Nov 23, 2009 at 01:56 AM Halacha Says:
“ "Factory guards hurled water at the protesters, who threw rocks and spat at journalists. "
I see the water. I see the police beating protesters. I see the protesters yelling. How is it that in all the footage these journalists took none includes rocks being thrown at them, or them being spit at? ”
AND is there an eiruv? would they even be allowed to pick up rocks, (assuming they were laid out erev Shabbos for the purpose of throwing so they wouldn't be muktzah.)