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Jerusalem - Rabbi Metzger On Shalit Deal: Rightist Rabbis Irresponsible |
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News Source: Ynet
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Metzger, who is scheduled to meet with Noam and Aviva Shalit Wednesday, argued that it is not possible to make an halachic ruling on the issue of the swap deal without being privy to all the details of the swap and the considerations behind it.
"As long as a rabbi or halachic adjudicator does not have all the information laid before him, including IDF and intelligence reports, it is not possible to take a decisive halachic stand (on the issue)," Rabbi Metzger said. "Halacha must not be ruled upon based on reports from the Arab media."
The chief rabbi noted that, according to Kabbalah, the 13 minutes between the hours of 1:43 pm and 1:56 pm on Thursday have unique qualities. He called upon the public to take advantage of this occasion to read psalms for Gilad's rescue. "With the power of prayer, we can open the heavens and be worthy of our heart's wishes being granted – that Gilad will light the Hannukah candles with his family."
As part of their efforts to persuade cabinet ministers to support the deal, Noam and Aviva Shalit contacted senior haredi rabbis via the "Union of Torah Friends for Gilad" – the headquarters of the haredi campaign for the release of their son – in order to hear their opinion on the matter. They also visited the home of Rabbi Elyashiv.
The captured soldier's parents are slated to meet Wednesday with Israel's chief rabbis, Metzger and Shlomo Amar.
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Read Comments (34) — Post Yours »
1
Nov 24, 2009 at 05:08 PM esther Says:
what rabbi metzger is basically saying is until you know all the facts,don't talk.and if i may humbly add.....DON'T BLOG!!!!
2
Nov 24, 2009 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:
The chief rabbi noted that, according to Kabbalah, the 13 minutes between the hours of 1:43 pm and 1:56 pm on Thursday
Does anybody more details about this? This sounds very interesting!
3
Nov 24, 2009 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:
The chief rabbi noted that, according to Kabbalah, the 13 minutes between the hours of 1:43 pm and 1:56 pm on Thursday
Does anybody more details about this? This sounds very interesting!
4
Nov 24, 2009 at 05:26 PM MN Says:
Could be that it's Metzger who is speaking irresponsibly.
For one thing, they are qualified Rabbonim and poskim who have EARNED their positions. Metzger is a petty hack who was thrust into the job by charedi politicians.
For another, these Rabbonim represent those who will be paying the price for the government's strengthening of terrorism. Metzger represents charedi politicians -- and no one else.
5
Nov 24, 2009 at 06:02 PM Brian Says:
The Lubavitcher Rebbe was against these obscene swaps. They only give incentive to future kidnappings. If the Hamas think they are getting a great deal, then we ought to prepare beds in hospitals, and plots in graveyards.
We ought to give the terrorists hell until they return Shalit. Like having a death penalty in Israel for terrorists. Not just leaving them in jail for a few months until the insane politicians release them in the name of 'deals'. That is a more sane strategy.
6
Nov 24, 2009 at 06:23 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ Could be that it's Metzger who is speaking irresponsibly.
For one thing, they are qualified Rabbonim and poskim who have EARNED their positions. Metzger is a petty hack who was thrust into the job by charedi politicians.
For another, these Rabbonim represent those who will be paying the price for the government's strengthening of terrorism. Metzger represents charedi politicians -- and no one else. ”
And MN represents the Americans Ready to Fight to the Last Dead Isreali party.
Unless you've worn the uniform or have kids who have worn the uniform please keep your worthless opinions regarding matters relating to chayalim to yourself.
7
Nov 24, 2009 at 06:27 PM Zach G. Says:
Guys,I'm sure you all know Pidyon Shvuyim is perhaps one of the greatest Mitzvot you can fulfill. Prayer is pushed off for Pidyon Shvuyim,even.
Rav Metzger is right; we must do everything to bring Gilad home and trust Hashem that be'ezrat hashem we will be saved.
8
Nov 24, 2009 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Could be that it's Metzger who is speaking irresponsibly.
For one thing, they are qualified Rabbonim and poskim who have EARNED their positions. Metzger is a petty hack who was thrust into the job by charedi politicians.
For another, these Rabbonim represent those who will be paying the price for the government's strengthening of terrorism. Metzger represents charedi politicians -- and no one else. ”
hey he is the chief rabbi a bissel respect....thats rabbi metzger for you. what do you think only rabbonim that eat cholent on thursday night is qualified.???
9
Nov 24, 2009 at 06:39 PM Milhouse Says:
“ And MN represents the Americans Ready to Fight to the Last Dead Isreali party.
Unless you've worn the uniform or have kids who have worn the uniform please keep your worthless opinions regarding matters relating to chayalim to yourself. ”
The halacha is the same regardless of who says it. And every Jew has the responsibility to protest violations of halacha. As for Metzger, he has no business criticizing his betters; he's an am ho'oretz compared to them.
10
Nov 24, 2009 at 06:51 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ The Lubavitcher Rebbe was against these obscene swaps. They only give incentive to future kidnappings. If the Hamas think they are getting a great deal, then we ought to prepare beds in hospitals, and plots in graveyards.
We ought to give the terrorists hell until they return Shalit. Like having a death penalty in Israel for terrorists. Not just leaving them in jail for a few months until the insane politicians release them in the name of 'deals'. That is a more sane strategy. ”
The Rebbe a"h died fifteen years ago. Claiming to know what his opinion would be on this particular case were he still alive is somewhat naive.
11
Nov 24, 2009 at 06:55 PM Anonymous Says:
The halacha is that you don't do pidyon shvuyim for more than their money value so as not to encourage further kidnappings. That obviously seems to apply here.
The chareidi position would be to be against these murderous prisoner swaps.
12
Nov 24, 2009 at 07:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The Lubavitcher Rebbe was against these obscene swaps. They only give incentive to future kidnappings. If the Hamas think they are getting a great deal, then we ought to prepare beds in hospitals, and plots in graveyards.
We ought to give the terrorists hell until they return Shalit. Like having a death penalty in Israel for terrorists. Not just leaving them in jail for a few months until the insane politicians release them in the name of 'deals'. That is a more sane strategy. ”
the only way to restore common sense to the future and entanglements we face in eretz yisroel is by having leadership whos goal is to restore the pride in jewish content and torah goals for the future and yes
13
Nov 24, 2009 at 06:55 PM Anonymous Says:
The halacha is that you don't do pidyon shvuyim for more than their money value so as not to encourage further kidnappings. That obviously seems to apply here.
The chareidi position would be to be against these murderous prisoner swaps.
14
Nov 24, 2009 at 08:48 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The halacha is that you don't do pidyon shvuyim for more than their money value so as not to encourage further kidnappings. That obviously seems to apply here.
The chareidi position would be to be against these murderous prisoner swaps. ”
“ The halacha is that you don't do pidyon shvuyim for more than their money value so as not to encourage further kidnappings. That obviously seems to apply here.
The chareidi position would be to be against these murderous prisoner swaps. ”
Right. Ever hear of the Satmar Ruv ztk"l?
15
Nov 24, 2009 at 08:45 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The halacha is the same regardless of who says it. And every Jew has the responsibility to protest violations of halacha. As for Metzger, he has no business criticizing his betters; he's an am ho'oretz compared to them. ”
I love watching all you armchair generals dictating to Rabbi Metzger and the entire IDF. Not one of you has 1% of the spine you'd need to put on a unifrom and risk injury, death or kidnapping, c"v, or even let your kids serve but you'll sit in Monsey and hock about Rav Metzger defending the IDF's negotiating for the safe return of one of its chayalim who has r"l suffered for three + years. I laugh at you because you don't even have a clue what fools you make of yourselves.
16
Nov 24, 2009 at 08:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ And MN represents the Americans Ready to Fight to the Last Dead Isreali party.
Unless you've worn the uniform or have kids who have worn the uniform please keep your worthless opinions regarding matters relating to chayalim to yourself. ”
Ur mishtamash bikeser malchus
17
Nov 24, 2009 at 08:41 PM Richard Nixon Says:
“ The halacha is the same regardless of who says it. And every Jew has the responsibility to protest violations of halacha. As for Metzger, he has no business criticizing his betters; he's an am ho'oretz compared to them. ”
The only person you belittle by referring to Rav Metzger without the proper kavod is yourself. One need not agree with him in order to accord him the proper derech eretz. One need only be a mentch.
18
Nov 24, 2009 at 11:17 PM Brian Says:
“ The Lubavitcher Rebbe was against these obscene swaps. They only give incentive to future kidnappings. If the Hamas think they are getting a great deal, then we ought to prepare beds in hospitals, and plots in graveyards.
We ought to give the terrorists hell until they return Shalit. Like having a death penalty in Israel for terrorists. Not just leaving them in jail for a few months until the insane politicians release them in the name of 'deals'. That is a more sane strategy. ”
Breaking News: Gilad Shalit was not the first Israeli kidnapped as a barter item for terrorists.
19
Nov 24, 2009 at 11:27 PM starwolf Says:
“ The halacha is the same regardless of who says it. And every Jew has the responsibility to protest violations of halacha. As for Metzger, he has no business criticizing his betters; he's an am ho'oretz compared to them. ”
Of course Rav Metzger's main point was that Rabbanim should not paskin on cases in which they do not know all the information.
But that has never stopped Milhouse, and so he would expect his Rabbanim to do the same.
By the way, Milhouse, note that Rabbanim is plural for Rav. These are people who have received smicha. Since we in the Torah world believe that smicah is a continuation of leadership from Sinai, we grant the people who have received it their titles as a matter of respect, whether or not we agree with their hashkafa. Clearly this is a lesson that your studies have failed to assimilate: Although you have picked up the art of assuming that you know the correct Torah way of behavior in every situation, you have failed to grasp the very basic concept of kavod laRav.
20
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:01 AM Brian Says:
I meant my response #18, as a response to (Richard Nixon) post #10
21
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:03 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I love watching all you armchair generals dictating to Rabbi Metzger and the entire IDF. Not one of you has 1% of the spine you'd need to put on a unifrom and risk injury, death or kidnapping, c"v, or even let your kids serve but you'll sit in Monsey and hock about Rav Metzger defending the IDF's negotiating for the safe return of one of its chayalim who has r"l suffered for three + years. I laugh at you because you don't even have a clue what fools you make of yourselves. ”
If this is what you believe, why don't you get out of your armchair in Greenwich Village and don a uniform?
The Torah is eternal and its logic of not encouraging kidnappings and murder due to bleeding heart emotions that don't take into account the creation of a greater danger and more suffering are independent of any direct involvement in battle.
22
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:11 AM Milhouse Says:
First of all, we do NOT believe that our smicha goes back to Sinai.
Second, what made you think that I don't know what "rabbanim" is plural for?
Third, what has any of this got to do with Metzger?
23
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:13 AM Milhouse Says:
“ The only person you belittle by referring to Rav Metzger without the proper kavod is yourself. One need not agree with him in order to accord him the proper derech eretz. One need only be a mentch. ”
Why exactly should I have "proper kavod" and "derech eretz" for him? Is he a talmid chochom?
24
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:18 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Of course Rav Metzger's main point was that Rabbanim should not paskin on cases in which they do not know all the information.
But that has never stopped Milhouse, and so he would expect his Rabbanim to do the same.
By the way, Milhouse, note that Rabbanim is plural for Rav. These are people who have received smicha. Since we in the Torah world believe that smicah is a continuation of leadership from Sinai, we grant the people who have received it their titles as a matter of respect, whether or not we agree with their hashkafa. Clearly this is a lesson that your studies have failed to assimilate: Although you have picked up the art of assuming that you know the correct Torah way of behavior in every situation, you have failed to grasp the very basic concept of kavod laRav.
”
Are you saying that Hashkafa doesn't matter? Someone with a twisted hashkafa can easily get smicha from someone else with a corrupt hashkafa. What does the smicha prove in that case?
25
Nov 25, 2009 at 02:15 AM starwolf Says:
to #21
The Torah is eternal, but your interpretation of the Torah is not the only one. Plenty of Rabbanim endorse this exchange.
Those "bleeding heart emotions" about our soldiers is one of our strengths, not a weakness. As far as a "greater danger", it is no surprise that that most of the country is in favor of this exchange. The primary danger is that our soldiers think that their lives will be hefker if they are captured. We have in mind Ron Arad (and others) , and do not wish to see other cases like theirs.
26
Nov 25, 2009 at 06:35 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Guys,I'm sure you all know Pidyon Shvuyim is perhaps one of the greatest Mitzvot you can fulfill. Prayer is pushed off for Pidyon Shvuyim,even.
Rav Metzger is right; we must do everything to bring Gilad home and trust Hashem that be'ezrat hashem we will be saved. ”
chochom, pidyon shvuyim is a great mitzvah but not at the expence of other lives, or comunal tragerdy. dont you all know of the story of maharam merotenberg?!
27
Nov 25, 2009 at 08:20 AM brian Says:
To put it another way, would it be sane to release 400 lions into the street to get shalit back? One thing for sure, if they let Shalit out in a swap for terrorists, he'll quickly be able to find employment. The morgue in Beer Sheva will need a couple new employees.
28
Nov 25, 2009 at 09:01 AM Brian Says:
“ The Rebbe a"h died fifteen years ago. Claiming to know what his opinion would be on this particular case were he still alive is somewhat naive. ”
Over the last 30 years, Israel has released about 7,000 Palestinian prisoners to secure freedom for 19 Israelis and to retrieve the bodies of eight others.
In 1985 alone, Israel released 1,150 prisoners in exchange for three Israeli soldiers captured in Lebanon. The Rebbe passed away in 1994. Does that answer your question? Or, I can just speak for you. You stand corrected.
29
Nov 25, 2009 at 06:18 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ If this is what you believe, why don't you get out of your armchair in Greenwich Village and don a uniform?
The Torah is eternal and its logic of not encouraging kidnappings and murder due to bleeding heart emotions that don't take into account the creation of a greater danger and more suffering are independent of any direct involvement in battle. ”
Been there and done that. Now I get to sit back and watch all the armchair generals who couldn't shoot an Uzi to save their lives shoot off their mouths instead, and get to laugh at make fun of guys like Millie every time they run their mouths at kiddush. I love watching you guys whimper away after I'm done with you.
30
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:05 AM Anonymous Says:
“ to #21
The Torah is eternal, but your interpretation of the Torah is not the only one. Plenty of Rabbanim endorse this exchange.
Those "bleeding heart emotions" about our soldiers is one of our strengths, not a weakness. As far as a "greater danger", it is no surprise that that most of the country is in favor of this exchange. The primary danger is that our soldiers think that their lives will be hefker if they are captured. We have in mind Ron Arad (and others) , and do not wish to see other cases like theirs.
”
Misguided bleeding heart emotions that lead to greater danger and tragedy are no strength but emotion driven weakness.
The fact that the majority is in favor of this proves nothing due to the media and government brainwashing. In any case, who says that the majority are in favor of this? Was any objective survey of this taken?
Having Ron Arad in mind is good thing and we should pray for him or his soul if he has passed away. However, to over focus on him at the expense of the general Israeli populace is pro Palestinian cruelty to the people of Israel.
31
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:18 AM starwolf Says:
“ Over the last 30 years, Israel has released about 7,000 Palestinian prisoners to secure freedom for 19 Israelis and to retrieve the bodies of eight others.
In 1985 alone, Israel released 1,150 prisoners in exchange for three Israeli soldiers captured in Lebanon. The Rebbe passed away in 1994. Does that answer your question? Or, I can just speak for you. You stand corrected. ”
This might be news to you, but the decisions of the State of Israel concerning our soldiers were not made by the Lubavitcher Rebbe, and we will make the decisions about the current exchange without reference to your (or anyone else's) opinion of the Lubavitcher Rebbe's opinions.
32
Nov 25, 2009 at 08:40 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ I meant my response #18, as a response to (Richard Nixon) post #10 ”
Than you totally missed my point, which was that every case is different. If the facts of the case and the environment in which it takes place is unique so must the decision making.
33
Nov 25, 2009 at 08:44 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ If this is what you believe, why don't you get out of your armchair in Greenwich Village and don a uniform?
The Torah is eternal and its logic of not encouraging kidnappings and murder due to bleeding heart emotions that don't take into account the creation of a greater danger and more suffering are independent of any direct involvement in battle. ”
Been there and done that. Another thing that seems to be eternal is the supply of Americans who support every right-wing position to be paid for by someone else's kid. If you haven't walked the walk don't talk the talk. Put your kid's life where your mouth is or keep it shut.
34
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:16 AM Richard Nixon Says:
“ Why exactly should I have "proper kavod" and "derech eretz" for him? Is he a talmid chochom? ”
He has semicha. That is what you need to know in order to know to refer to him as Rav or Rabbi. Even constant kvetchers have to give kavod to a Rav.
35
Nov 25, 2009 at 11:02 AM starwolf Says:
“ Misguided bleeding heart emotions that lead to greater danger and tragedy are no strength but emotion driven weakness.
The fact that the majority is in favor of this proves nothing due to the media and government brainwashing. In any case, who says that the majority are in favor of this? Was any objective survey of this taken?
Having Ron Arad in mind is good thing and we should pray for him or his soul if he has passed away. However, to over focus on him at the expense of the general Israeli populace is pro Palestinian cruelty to the people of Israel. ”
Talk to a few--or many people on the street. It's not difficult to see. It's also not too difficult to notice that the vast majority of the Defense establishment favors this exchange.
You also have no guarantee of which strategy and tactics will lead to more danger and tragedy. It's not as if you have any guarantee that if the exchange is not made, Hamas will stop trying to take hostages.
36
Nov 25, 2009 at 03:19 PM Shame on you! Says:
How dare anybody cast aspersions upon Rabbi Metzger's qualifications as a Rav.
Fortunately, Hashem and not you is makpid on the kavod of a Talmid Chacham.
And please don't let my words be the cause of more bizayon and outrageous disrepect. How easily people throw words around . I doubt if anyone on this blog is a greater baki in Halachah than Rabbi Metzger. I have no personal or cummunal affiliation with Rabbi M but I couldn't sit by and say nothing after reading some of the "I'm frumer and smarter than you" comments.