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Haifa, Israel - Rabbis: Unfaithful Woman Must Pass Lie Detector Test

Published on: December 3, 2009 08:31 AM
By:  Jpost
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Haifa, Israel - In an unprecedented move, the Haifa Rabbinical Court has ordered a woman to answer questions about her relations with men and alleged drug abuse while connected to a lie detector, Army Radio revealed.

The woman has reportedly denied accusations by her husband, who told the rabbinical court his wife had been unfaithful and had smoked drugs.

According to the report, if the lie detector verifies her husband’s claims, the woman will not receive custody over her children.
Tests conducted by a polygraph machine are not admissible in non-rabbinical courts but are used by police to help decide on the credibility of a suspect’s account.

“There is halachic justification to make use of a lie detector in order to deter swindlers from hiding the truth,” the judges wrote in the ruling.
“Today, we do not need to torment the swindlers until they confess, but rather, lie detectors may be used to reveal a lying witness.”

The rabbinical judges, headed by the court’s chief judge Rabbi Haim Hertzberg, ordered the woman to answer three questions related to the suspicions against her.

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According to the radio station, the court allowed the woman to formulate a set of questions for her husband to answer while connected to a polygraph machine.

Rabbi Eliyahu Ben-Dahan, administrative head of the Rabbinical Courts, told the radio station that the ruling would serve as a precedent allowing the use of modern tools, such as the polygraph, in divorce or child custody cases with insufficient evidence.



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Read Comments (30)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Dec 03, 2009 at 08:44 AM Anonymous Says:

You can have false positives on the one hand. Some people can evade the test and look innocent on the other. There are reasons it is not accepted in secular court.

2

 Dec 03, 2009 at 08:53 AM Anonymous Says:

But the old lei detector was still more accurate "the women use to drink only water"

3

 Dec 03, 2009 at 08:53 AM formelly Says:

there is a reason why a polygraph machine is not permissible in court, because the accuracy is not that great it can be fooled.


4

 Dec 03, 2009 at 09:14 AM ChiLawyer Says:

While laudable, the fact remains that the science behind and reliability of polygrpahs has been discredited over the past number of years by experts and courts throughout the world. To solely base custody on this test method alone, one notorious for false positives, is abhorent.

5

 Dec 03, 2009 at 09:25 AM Anonymous Says:

This makes sense only if a man charged by his wife with the same behavior must also take the lie dectector tests. That concept of equal treatment is a basic requirement of halacha. In either case, the results of the test must be treated with some skepticism since the results are still not admissible in the civil courts because they are not always reliable. A husband who refuses to take the same test a wife is subject to should be summarily kicked out of the beis din.

6

 Dec 03, 2009 at 09:37 AM Anonymous Says:

The halacha is clear on this matter: there must be 2 kosher witnesses to infidelity. This Bais Din is abusing the law on this matter. Lie Detector tests are NEVER used in divorce/infidelity cases as most courts require hard proof, such as photos snapped by a private investigator or tapping phone lines or credit card receipts for hotels and flowers. Her responses are inadmissable in a Court of Law and the Bais Din has no authority to undermine her parental rights based on NO PROOF, but just allegations.

7

 Dec 03, 2009 at 09:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Will this help to test a 'Sotah' ?

8

 Dec 03, 2009 at 10:35 AM Your Answer Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

This makes sense only if a man charged by his wife with the same behavior must also take the lie dectector tests. That concept of equal treatment is a basic requirement of halacha. In either case, the results of the test must be treated with some skepticism since the results are still not admissible in the civil courts because they are not always reliable. A husband who refuses to take the same test a wife is subject to should be summarily kicked out of the beis din.

the court allowed the woman to formulate a set of questions for her husband to answer while connected to a polygraph

9

 Dec 03, 2009 at 10:20 AM shmiel glassman Says:

#4 - you are a lawyer because you put in the word "solely"- these kind of cases have long stories to tell it seems the beis din is using the polygraph as a "snif" not that the whole case is based on this one test
#5- the article if accurate states that the wife formulated a set of q's for the husband
"hoshiva shofteinu kevarishona"...

10

 Dec 03, 2009 at 11:54 AM Anonymous Says:

#4 is right -- this is abhorrent and why no frum woman in her right mind should ever consent to a Beth Din divorce -- evolving secular law, by the people and for the people, provides vastly superior recognition and protections for women and children.

11

 Dec 03, 2009 at 10:12 AM Anonymous Says:

I thought custody was to be determined based on the best interests of the children. Even a spouse who was unfaithful can still be a great parent. It sounds like the court wants to punish this lady. As for "smoking drugs" a hair test or urinalysis would make a lot more sense. Lie detectors are not accepted in most courts around the world because they are not sufficiently reliable.

12

 Dec 03, 2009 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:

when it comes to jewish law aren't we suppose to have wittness ? are we replacing people for lie detectors ?

13

 Dec 03, 2009 at 10:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

The halacha is clear on this matter: there must be 2 kosher witnesses to infidelity. This Bais Din is abusing the law on this matter. Lie Detector tests are NEVER used in divorce/infidelity cases as most courts require hard proof, such as photos snapped by a private investigator or tapping phone lines or credit card receipts for hotels and flowers. Her responses are inadmissable in a Court of Law and the Bais Din has no authority to undermine her parental rights based on NO PROOF, but just allegations.

As mere fact that mother may have committed adultery or occasionally smoked pot is totally irrelevant in deciding custody of a child if otherwise she is a satisfactory mother. In deciding custody the deciding issuing is the best interests of the child, not the fact that the father feels humiliated. The problem is that orthodox Jews regard adultery as being matter so serious that it can never be in the interest of a child to be in the custody of an adulterer whilst secular people (which includes most American and Israeli Jews) regard it as just evidence that the relationship between spouses has broken down and that the marriage is finished and although a sad state of affairs not that much worse than any breakdown in relationship between two friends or business partners. You would not take custody of a child just because he or she may have been at fault in breaking up some friendship or business partnership, so why would you do so in a case of marital breakdown?

14

 Dec 03, 2009 at 11:24 AM Anonymous Says:

Why do so many assume that the rabbonim are idiots and morons.

I doubt they would really consider using the polygraph as their "sole" reason for any decision. However, they can use it to help them weigh the case when they already have good reasons to suspect, etc.,

We don't like to talk about this, as it is both embarrassing and painful to admit, but we have a much higher, and ever-increasing, level of marital cheating on the part of the women. From Willi to Flatbush, from Yerushalayim to Kfar xxxxxx, more and more women are cheating. Many "experts" say they are cheating more than men, other say they are now "equal." But either way, there is a clear halacha, whether you agree or not, that once the woman has cheated she is totally ossur to the husband. He may not "forgive" her and stay married. This means a beis din now needs help.
Also to our shame, is the fact that following divorce, frum women alienate children from the father. This is a tragedy. Especially when the woman goes off the derech and takes the kids with her.
I am not saying this is "the" solution. But I do see the increasing need for the facts. BYW, new equip and techniques are more accurate than the old ones

15

 Dec 03, 2009 at 12:19 PM Moshiach.... Says:

To all those Yidden who praise the secular and put down our own holy laws of Torah!
Where did you learn??!!! What do you think the Torah is???? Come on now, the Torah is GOD's words to us! Evolving civil laws??!!! Are you out of your mind??? Like in 1930s in Germany! The laws were evolving allright!
Get a brain, learn Torah!

16

 Dec 03, 2009 at 01:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

Why do so many assume that the rabbonim are idiots and morons.

I doubt they would really consider using the polygraph as their "sole" reason for any decision. However, they can use it to help them weigh the case when they already have good reasons to suspect, etc.,

We don't like to talk about this, as it is both embarrassing and painful to admit, but we have a much higher, and ever-increasing, level of marital cheating on the part of the women. From Willi to Flatbush, from Yerushalayim to Kfar xxxxxx, more and more women are cheating. Many "experts" say they are cheating more than men, other say they are now "equal." But either way, there is a clear halacha, whether you agree or not, that once the woman has cheated she is totally ossur to the husband. He may not "forgive" her and stay married. This means a beis din now needs help.
Also to our shame, is the fact that following divorce, frum women alienate children from the father. This is a tragedy. Especially when the woman goes off the derech and takes the kids with her.
I am not saying this is "the" solution. But I do see the increasing need for the facts. BYW, new equip and techniques are more accurate than the old ones

You are very right. I am a woman from Mea Shearim, though currently visiting the US, who has fallen into that.
I was lonely while my husband was sitting and learning.
I felt very lonely while we had to be in separate beds.
and, most important, I found it very easy to do. I had lots of time with my husband gone. Most of the time, he was either at work, or in shul davening or learning.

To be honest, it is with secular men that I spend my time with, or goyim.
I do have to say, I have "tried" to seduce a couple of chassidishe men, and was turned down each time. They may have flirted a drop, but would not cross the line.
I have a few friends who do the same. In fact, we kind of help each other with the "arrangements" when needed.

NONE of our husbands know. I am not proud of it, but I also don't want to stop.
I am now in the US, supposedly to visit a cousin. But, ... well.....

17

 Dec 03, 2009 at 01:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

As mere fact that mother may have committed adultery or occasionally smoked pot is totally irrelevant in deciding custody of a child if otherwise she is a satisfactory mother. In deciding custody the deciding issuing is the best interests of the child, not the fact that the father feels humiliated. The problem is that orthodox Jews regard adultery as being matter so serious that it can never be in the interest of a child to be in the custody of an adulterer whilst secular people (which includes most American and Israeli Jews) regard it as just evidence that the relationship between spouses has broken down and that the marriage is finished and although a sad state of affairs not that much worse than any breakdown in relationship between two friends or business partners. You would not take custody of a child just because he or she may have been at fault in breaking up some friendship or business partnership, so why would you do so in a case of marital breakdown?

You completely lost me. I have no idea what point you are trying to make. I never stated that any court has the right to take away her kids if she has been unfaithful, what I said was that based solely on the results of a life detector test, the Bais Din has no right to diminish her parental responsibilities.

18

 Dec 03, 2009 at 02:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

Why do so many assume that the rabbonim are idiots and morons.

I doubt they would really consider using the polygraph as their "sole" reason for any decision. However, they can use it to help them weigh the case when they already have good reasons to suspect, etc.,

We don't like to talk about this, as it is both embarrassing and painful to admit, but we have a much higher, and ever-increasing, level of marital cheating on the part of the women. From Willi to Flatbush, from Yerushalayim to Kfar xxxxxx, more and more women are cheating. Many "experts" say they are cheating more than men, other say they are now "equal." But either way, there is a clear halacha, whether you agree or not, that once the woman has cheated she is totally ossur to the husband. He may not "forgive" her and stay married. This means a beis din now needs help.
Also to our shame, is the fact that following divorce, frum women alienate children from the father. This is a tragedy. Especially when the woman goes off the derech and takes the kids with her.
I am not saying this is "the" solution. But I do see the increasing need for the facts. BYW, new equip and techniques are more accurate than the old ones

You made a huge assumption of the woman's guilt. Never once did you say, "alleged cheating". So, if she's guilty, just take away her kids and throw her out on the streets.

19

 Dec 03, 2009 at 02:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

You are very right. I am a woman from Mea Shearim, though currently visiting the US, who has fallen into that.
I was lonely while my husband was sitting and learning.
I felt very lonely while we had to be in separate beds.
and, most important, I found it very easy to do. I had lots of time with my husband gone. Most of the time, he was either at work, or in shul davening or learning.

To be honest, it is with secular men that I spend my time with, or goyim.
I do have to say, I have "tried" to seduce a couple of chassidishe men, and was turned down each time. They may have flirted a drop, but would not cross the line.
I have a few friends who do the same. In fact, we kind of help each other with the "arrangements" when needed.

NONE of our husbands know. I am not proud of it, but I also don't want to stop.
I am now in the US, supposedly to visit a cousin. But, ... well.....

Wow! The Bais Yaakov in Me'ah She'arim sure taught you to write English very well! You write just like a bored American teenage yeshiva bochur looking to make absurd comments on the internet to see people's reactions.

20

 Dec 03, 2009 at 03:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

As mere fact that mother may have committed adultery or occasionally smoked pot is totally irrelevant in deciding custody of a child if otherwise she is a satisfactory mother. In deciding custody the deciding issuing is the best interests of the child, not the fact that the father feels humiliated. The problem is that orthodox Jews regard adultery as being matter so serious that it can never be in the interest of a child to be in the custody of an adulterer whilst secular people (which includes most American and Israeli Jews) regard it as just evidence that the relationship between spouses has broken down and that the marriage is finished and although a sad state of affairs not that much worse than any breakdown in relationship between two friends or business partners. You would not take custody of a child just because he or she may have been at fault in breaking up some friendship or business partnership, so why would you do so in a case of marital breakdown?

“ As mere fact that mother may have committed adultery or occasionally smoked pot is totally irrelevant in deciding custody of a child if otherwise she is a satisfactory mother."

As to your first contention, you have support from many judges, adultery is not necessarily a deciding factor (unless the paramours or the behaviours are dangerous, and put the child at risk). However, illegal activity is ABSOLUTELY a factor, and a person who uses illegal mind altering substances is by definition not a "satisfactory mother."

21

 Dec 03, 2009 at 03:19 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

The halacha is clear on this matter: there must be 2 kosher witnesses to infidelity. This Bais Din is abusing the law on this matter. Lie Detector tests are NEVER used in divorce/infidelity cases as most courts require hard proof, such as photos snapped by a private investigator or tapping phone lines or credit card receipts for hotels and flowers. Her responses are inadmissable in a Court of Law and the Bais Din has no authority to undermine her parental rights based on NO PROOF, but just allegations.

The halacha is indeed clear, and it is the exact opposite of your claim. Witnesses are only required to execute her; they are NOT required to prove that she has committed adultery, and is therefore is forbidden to her husband and must be divorced and sent away without a penny, let alone custody of the children.

22

 Dec 03, 2009 at 03:27 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

This makes sense only if a man charged by his wife with the same behavior must also take the lie dectector tests. That concept of equal treatment is a basic requirement of halacha. In either case, the results of the test must be treated with some skepticism since the results are still not admissible in the civil courts because they are not always reliable. A husband who refuses to take the same test a wife is subject to should be summarily kicked out of the beis din.

Where on earth are you getting this? Equal treatment is certainly NOT "a basic requirement of halacha"; on the contrary, in this matter the two spouses are definitely UNequal. A wife who strays with another man is committing adultery, which is a capital crime, and becomes forbidden to both her husband and her lover; the husband has no choice but to divorce her, no matter how much he wants to forgive her, and she is not entitled to any money or property at all. But if a husband strays with a single woman that is not adultery, and while it's a sin it's really none of his wife's business unless it directly affects her in some way. It only becomes her business if he's spending significant money on prostitutes, or bringing home diseases, or spending all his time away from home and not giving her the attention she deserves. But a one-time avera that doesn't affect her is between him and Hashem, just as it would be if he ate treif once. And even if it does become her business, she can decide to forgive him and not demand a divorce. So the sexes are definitely unequal, and this is Hashem's law, which you are not entitled to challenge.

23

 Dec 03, 2009 at 03:30 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #11  
Anonymous Says:

I thought custody was to be determined based on the best interests of the children. Even a spouse who was unfaithful can still be a great parent. It sounds like the court wants to punish this lady. As for "smoking drugs" a hair test or urinalysis would make a lot more sense. Lie detectors are not accepted in most courts around the world because they are not sufficiently reliable.

Why should custody was be determined solely on the best interests of the children? Don't parents have rights in the matter? Just because some American goyim decided otherwise, why should a beis din in Eretz Yisroel pay attention to that?

24

 Dec 03, 2009 at 03:33 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

As mere fact that mother may have committed adultery or occasionally smoked pot is totally irrelevant in deciding custody of a child if otherwise she is a satisfactory mother. In deciding custody the deciding issuing is the best interests of the child, not the fact that the father feels humiliated. The problem is that orthodox Jews regard adultery as being matter so serious that it can never be in the interest of a child to be in the custody of an adulterer whilst secular people (which includes most American and Israeli Jews) regard it as just evidence that the relationship between spouses has broken down and that the marriage is finished and although a sad state of affairs not that much worse than any breakdown in relationship between two friends or business partners. You would not take custody of a child just because he or she may have been at fault in breaking up some friendship or business partnership, so why would you do so in a case of marital breakdown?

Who says that "in deciding custody the deciding issuing is the best interests of the child"? Where in halacha do you find any hint to such a standard? And adultery is not a matter of the husband being humiliated; it makes no difference how he feels about it. Adultery is a terrible crime, even if the husband explicitly permits or encourages it; it's not up to him.

25

 Dec 03, 2009 at 04:25 PM ChiLawyer Says:

#9 - 14: You, apparently, are not a lawyer or a very thorough reader. My comment was in reference to the fact that custody of the children, sole custody mind you, is based on this examination. "According to the report, if the lie detector verifies her husband's claims, the woman will not receive custody over her children."

26

 Dec 03, 2009 at 04:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
Milhouse Says:

The halacha is indeed clear, and it is the exact opposite of your claim. Witnesses are only required to execute her; they are NOT required to prove that she has committed adultery, and is therefore is forbidden to her husband and must be divorced and sent away without a penny, let alone custody of the children.

NO witnesses at all were required to execute an adulteress, the bitter waters alone proved her guilt or innocence. Two witnesses were required to declare her "in seclusion" with a strange man whereby her husband could divorce her. Why do you use that strange monniker, are you related to Nixon?

27

 Dec 03, 2009 at 05:30 PM Anon Says:

For child abusers, only two adult witnesses are satisfactory proof, but for wives failing a polygraph is enough.

28

 Dec 03, 2009 at 06:16 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

NO witnesses at all were required to execute an adulteress, the bitter waters alone proved her guilt or innocence. Two witnesses were required to declare her "in seclusion" with a strange man whereby her husband could divorce her. Why do you use that strange monniker, are you related to Nixon?

Once again you are mistaken. Witnesses are NOT required to establish that a woman is an adulteress and must be divorced. See Rambam Hilchos Ishus 24:17-18

29

 Dec 03, 2009 at 06:53 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #26  
Anonymous Says:

NO witnesses at all were required to execute an adulteress, the bitter waters alone proved her guilt or innocence. Two witnesses were required to declare her "in seclusion" with a strange man whereby her husband could divorce her. Why do you use that strange monniker, are you related to Nixon?

What have the waters got to do with executing her? If she drinks the waters, then mima nafshach: if she dies then we can't execute her, and if she lives we certainly can't execute her! She can be executed ONLY if there are two kosher witnesses, who warned her beforehand and then saw enough to be certain that she sinned. But to determine that she is forbidden to her husband, and that he can divorce her without a penny, witnesses are not required.

Oh, and Nixon's middle name was Milhous, not Milhouse.

30

 Dec 03, 2009 at 06:55 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #27  
Anon Says:

For child abusers, only two adult witnesses are satisfactory proof, but for wives failing a polygraph is enough.

Yes, that's right. Different purpose, therefore different rules.

31

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