New York - Before Your Divorce Give Peace A Chance |
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New York - Not long ago, a 93-year-old man came to my office to see me for a divorce. As this elderly man sat down at my conference table for a consultation, I wondered what could have moved someone to seek a divorce after 60 years of marriage. He complained that he could no longer live with his wife, since she was refusing to sell their million-dollar home, which he felt he could no longer maintain. He wanted to retire, but his wife was refusing to change their lifestyle. In an attempt to save this long-term marriage, I asked the client to permit me to speak to his son, a Park Avenue physician, who began crying when I told him that his father seriously wanted to divorce his mother. The son advised me that he knew his father was unhappy but he did not take him seriously, as his parents had been married for over 60 years. In the end, the parties stayed married thanks to their son’s intervention.
That same day, a 23-year-old Orthodox woman came to me seeking a divorce, claiming that she could no longer stand living with her husband of less than three years, with whom she had one child. Knowing that this young marriage likewise deserved a fighting chance, I encouraged the young woman to reconsider her decision to divorce and to instead attend marriage counseling. Sadly, her story did not have a similar happy ending.
It is a sad fact that some young couples resort to divorce as an easy way out of their marital problems. Rather than exploring the source of their marital discord in an attempt to find a solution, young couples are increasingly viewing divorce as a first course of action. Unfortunately, as more young couples choose to divorce, the stigma once associated with it has evaporated, making the option a far easier pill to swallow.
Social scientists have found that people who marry young are seldom prepared for marital roles. Prior to their mid-twenties, most young adults have not had time to learn how to be independent, let alone be prepared for the challenges faced by married couples every day. These young adults are not yet fully aware of their own identities, life goals, or needs. They are hardly in the position to care for the identity, goals, or needs of a partner. Current statistics relating to divorce are not encouraging. Consider these statistics from Divorcerate.com and Divorce Magazine:
• The divorce rate for a first marriage in America is 40% to 50%.
• The highest divorce rate is among people getting married between the ages of 20 and 24.
• The median age at first marriage is 26.9 for men and 25.3 for women.
• The median age for divorce is 30.5 for men and 29 for women.
• The median duration of a first marriage that ends in divorce is 7.8 to 7.9 years.
It is also reported that the probability of divorce increases until the fourth year of marriage, when it begin to decline. The median age of divorce is decreasing, representing a trend among young married couples to opt out of their marriages at an alarmingly rapid rate.
A number of states have responded to the problem of the decreasing marriage rate and the increasing divorce rate by enacting laws intended to promote and preserve marriage.1 Some states have passed laws to encourage couples to obtain premarital counseling or attend marriage-education classes. The belief is that preparing a couple for marriage with realistic expectations will make it easier for them to survive potential turbulence without turning to the extreme remedy of divorce.
Over the past half decade, the divorce rate in the U.S. has increased at a steady rate. Before the late 1960s, ending a marriage was complicated, as the law in most states required proof of serious marital “fault” in order to obtain a divorce. While the grounds for divorce varied from state to state, a party could obtain a divorce only if he or she could prove a statutorily prescribed fault on the part of the other spouse. The state legislators reasoned that making a divorce difficult promoted the preservation of marriage. After several decades of pressure for change, the late 1960s saw a shift to no-fault divorces.
No-fault divorce laws were enacted to lower the divorce rate by improving the chances of reconciliation.1 In states with such laws, a couple can divorce by simply alleging irreconcilable differences, without alleging any fault. Whether or not these laws play a role in preventing divorce is subject to debate. New York, still a “fault” state, provides no-fault divorce for couples living separate and apart for a period of one year pursuant to a separation agreement, in effect giving the couple time to attempt reconciliation.
It has been my experience as a matrimonial attorney that many young marriages fail for several reasons—including abuse, poor communication, lack of respect, financial stress, and infidelity. While most couples enter into a marriage expecting marital bliss, the reality is that marriage is not always idyllic. Newly married couples must be prepared for the possible feelings of dissatisfaction or tension that even the best marriages at times produce. Such feelings, while at times valid, do not always mean that a marriage is doomed.
Many young spouses choose to run from conflict rather than address it head on. Moreover, when couples see repeated failures in their friends’ marriages, it is easy for them to feel that divorce is a solution for them, as well.
I often see parental influence as a factor in the breakup of young marriages. While well-intentioned and believing that they are acting in the best interests of their children, some parents encourage their children to leave viable marriages. These parents, in a desperate attempt to help their struggling children, often fail to see that every marital conflict has different perspectives—the husband’s, the wife’s, and reality. Furthermore, parents often refuse to believe that their child’s behavior could be a contributing factor in the marital discord. Sadly, these parents often encourage their children to terminate the marriage and overlook viable alternatives to divorce that might, and often do, result in stronger, more successful long-term marriages.
Rabbi Peretz Steinberg, the rabbi of Young Israel of Queens Valley and a member of the Vaad Harabanim of Queens, said, “Tragically, I am seeing more young couples with infidelity and Internet issues that bring about destruction of the family.” Rabbi Steinberg, who counsels couples to examine their marriages before resorting to divorce, is painfully aware of the strain that outside influences can place on a young marriage. He stresses that young couples must be vigilant in their communication with each other to ensure that these negative influences have no place in developing young Jewish homes.
According to Tina Machnikoff, LCSW, who works with couples and families in transitional life-cycle situations, “if one has their needs fulfilled in their marriage, one is less likely to seek fulfillment outside of the marriage; however, many of these needs are not being expressed clearly and openly. In these cases, a couple can be married but not have a clue as to actual problems in the marriage.” According to Machnikoff, the key to a successful marriage lies in communication between the parties, relating to fulfillment in the marriage or the lack thereof. She acknowledges that this is particularly difficult in young marriages, where the parties are less mature and therefore less likely to be able to negotiate both the “I” and the “we” within the relationship. In this regard, she notes that young couples often face greater obstacles than more mature couples when it comes to navigating the seas of marital discord.
According to both Rabbi Steinberg and Ms. Machnikoff, marriage counseling can be invaluable. As both experts agree that the key to a happy and healthy marriage lies in communication between the parties, any solution that teaches a couple how to better communicate would provide a port in a storm to young couples whose communication skills may be lacking or underdeveloped. Marriage counseling provided by a trained marriage counselor or rabbi allows a couple to air their grievances and express their feelings about their marriage in a safe environment under the care of an expert who can help them find solutions to their problems. Ultimately, even if the couple decides to divorce, marriage counseling may allow them to do it amicably, rather than allowing the divorce to be contentious and hurtful.
“Premarital and marital counseling provide an opportunity to clarify one’s expectations that the individual has as he/she enters the new stage of being a couple. In therapy, one is given the opportunity to process and explore different themes that are part of the marital state, including communication, conflict resolution, role relations, managing finances, and personal and family goals, all in a safe environment,” commented Machnikoff. Rabbi Steinberg cautioned, however, that “people without experience in a particular area should not attempt to take matters in their own hands, but should refer to the right channels.” If they don’t know about gittin or marriage counseling, a professional referral should be made.
While counseling plays an important role for married couples, educating engaged couples about the responsibilities of marriage provides an invaluable service as well. Marriage presents the first time that most people view themselves as a “we” rather than an “I,” and they must be prepared for this giant leap with the tools for building a successful relationship. Pre-marriage counseling would benefit any young couple contemplating marriage, by allowing them to anticipate the unique challenges presented by marriage and helping them understand how to navigate those challenges with minimal conflict.
While there has been a dramatic evolution in the institution of marriage over the years, due to shifts in the economic and social climate, one fact that has never changed is the high value society places on marriage. Society today faces a monumental task. As young people increasingly opt out of marriage before they celebrate their first or second anniversary, we must encourage young couples to work on their marriages. As the value of marriage begins to erode, the challenge that we face is to work on preserving this precious institution to ensure that those entering marriage do so fully prepared to enjoy the good times and to work through the difficulties.
Esther Schonfeld is an attorney with the law firm of Schonfeld & Goldring, LLP, Cedarhurst, New York.
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Read Comments (43) — Post Yours »
2
Dec 04, 2009 at 11:02 AM Avi Says:Report as Inappropriate
The key is communication. This isn't news, but it's good to see a greater awareness in the Frum community.
3
Dec 04, 2009 at 11:08 AM izzy Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is an excellent article, and it brings forward the fact that many young people see divorce as an option for minor issues, kol hakovod to this attorney who counsels patience instead of looking for the quick dollar to facilitate divorce. I have several young friends who look towards divorce as a solution, and it is very distressing
4
Dec 04, 2009 at 11:22 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
What does one do when after 30 plus years you're very unhappy and very miserable? You've gone to several counselors and sessions with your spouse to no avail. The concensus at each counselor was that each spouse should change in a certain way. You change but your spouse who promised to change, not only does not change but rather takes revenge and punishes you by making the situation worse. Try another counselor? been there done that. Keep your mouth closed and be miserable so that you have peace? Been there done that too.
5
Dec 04, 2009 at 11:25 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Very well put althougth there really are some cases where one spouse refuses to change and that can be very difficult to deal with. The statistics did not just go up because the stigma went down. Society today is disposable and that is the view with marriage too, unfortunately.
6
Dec 04, 2009 at 11:44 AM Rippin Pinchas Says:Report as Inappropriate
The author makes a number of very strong points, namely that the shidduch crisis is not the only crisis; the divorce rate is also a crisis. However, one issue the author did not discuss was expectations. In today's world we expect this and that. When our spouse does not live up to those expectations, we feel cheated. Instead, we should instill in our young couples a rule from R' Avigdor Miller ZTL: be realistic.
7
Dec 04, 2009 at 11:59 AM Askupeh Says:Report as Inappropriate
The story of the 93 year old reminds me of a story where a 93 year old comes to his Rabbi and says that he wants to divorce his wife. The Rabbi asks, look you have been married already for that long, can’t you live together for another few years? The old man replies “Ales Hut Ah Shiyur” and this also has a Shiyur.
8
Dec 04, 2009 at 12:18 PM Askupeh (Part 1) Says:Report as Inappropriate
I agree with some aspects of this article and disagree with others. I’ll just mention some where I disagree.
This article stresses that “people who marry young are seldom prepared for marital roles”, and that “prior to their mid-twenties, most young adults have not had time to learn how to be independent, let alone be prepared for the challenges faced by married couples every day. These young adults are not yet fully aware of their own identities, life goals, or needs. They are hardly in the position to care for the identity, goals, or needs of a partner”.
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Dec 04, 2009 at 12:19 PM Askupeh (Part 2) Says:Report as Inappropriate
The flip side of what those social scientists say is that exactly because youngsters are not yet fully aware of their own identities, life goals, or needs; that marriages among innocent Frum Yiden do mostly succeed. It is very difficult for a 25 year old, hardened in their needs to change to accommodate a husband or a wife, where as an 18-19 year old not yet set in his/her ways could very easily adjust to just about any spouse.
The reason why by Frum Yiden “the highest divorce rate is among those getting married between the ages of 20 and 24” is not because they are immature, but because it is much easier for a couple without children or with one or two children to get divorced then let’s say a couple who has already 2 to 10 children. That father of 5 to 10 children who divorces his wife because she isn’t exactly what he thought she’ll be, or he found on the internet someone he thinks is better, is an achzor and a Roshe. Therefore because very few are Aczorim and Rishoyim, therefore only those who have “legitimate” problems, they divorce many years after being married. All the others just try to “fix” their marriage, and some even fix it up to be better then ever before.
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Dec 04, 2009 at 12:37 PM barry Says:Report as Inappropriate
"These young adults are not yet fully aware of their own identities, life goals, or needs. They are hardly in the position to care for the identity, goals, or needs of a partner."
100% TRUE. Especially in the Heimisher circles where we grow up not knowing what we are doing because we want to be doing it, what we are doing because our parents wanted us to do so and what we are doing because of peer pressure in our communities.
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Dec 04, 2009 at 12:42 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
In my experience, many of the divorces in the kehillah reflect real crisis and often spousal abuse and the fact that women especially are discovering they no longer have to suffer in silence for decades. Indeed, the most interesting point that comes out of this article is that frum women are feeling less and less constrained and intimidated and are prepared consult attorneys recognizing that states have laws that offer them powerful protections that just don't exist at the Beis Din.
12
Dec 04, 2009 at 12:50 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ The author makes a number of very strong points, namely that the shidduch crisis is not the only crisis; the divorce rate is also a crisis. However, one issue the author did not discuss was expectations. In today's world we expect this and that. When our spouse does not live up to those expectations, we feel cheated. Instead, we should instill in our young couples a rule from R' Avigdor Miller ZTL: be realistic. ”
Don't these two "crises" compliment each other (i.e., divorces free up a new crop of mates that singles can now access)?
13
Dec 04, 2009 at 12:51 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
As a teacher, I have one point to make. A miserable marriage where the spouses fight, abuse and belittle each other in front of children is just as damaging as a divorce. Sometimes more so. Get help and make the marriage work.
14
Dec 04, 2009 at 12:55 PM question Says:Report as Inappropriate
does anybody know of a counselor in Monsey where I can go for counseling?
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Dec 04, 2009 at 01:03 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What does one do when after 30 plus years you're very unhappy and very miserable? You've gone to several counselors and sessions with your spouse to no avail. The concensus at each counselor was that each spouse should change in a certain way. You change but your spouse who promised to change, not only does not change but rather takes revenge and punishes you by making the situation worse. Try another counselor? been there done that. Keep your mouth closed and be miserable so that you have peace? Been there done that too. ”
Each spouse has to work on himself for the marriage to work. You must convince your spouse that, for the sake of peace and harmony, they must refrain from "punishing behaviours", or they will pay the ultimate penalty: divorce, which no one wants to go through. If they don't comprehend the seriousness of divorce, then go spend a chanuka meal at the home of a divorced husband and wife until the seriousness of it sinks in.
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Dec 04, 2009 at 01:05 PM Chicago Says:Report as Inappropriate
Divorce is written in the Torah as an option. Jews are not Catholics, divorce is a kosher alternative. Not that a person should run to divorce, but your own life and those of your children will be better without the abuse.
17
Dec 04, 2009 at 01:08 PM 5t atturney Says:Report as Inappropriate
the easier way to a divorce after 60 years is murder which has a sentence of lest then 50 years.....gut geshucht?
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Dec 04, 2009 at 01:09 PM advisor Says:Report as Inappropriate
#14 ...you should contact the author of this inportant peace....she, lav dafka, knows everything.
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Dec 04, 2009 at 01:12 PM Rippin Pinchas Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Don't these two "crises" compliment each other (i.e., divorces free up a new crop of mates that singles can now access)? ”
Not necessarily. If single people view divorced people as damaged goods then divorced people are not involved in the shidduch crisis. Especially if divorced people have children.
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Dec 04, 2009 at 01:45 PM Askupeh Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ In my experience, many of the divorces in the kehillah reflect real crisis and often spousal abuse and the fact that women especially are discovering they no longer have to suffer in silence for decades. Indeed, the most interesting point that comes out of this article is that frum women are feeling less and less constrained and intimidated and are prepared consult attorneys recognizing that states have laws that offer them powerful protections that just don't exist at the Beis Din. ”
And you can add, do away with Beth Din and Judaism altogether. Let's sing together " womens liberation" which is to be porek ohl and become a hipster.
That is exactly the reason for marrying off your chlidren young before they get influenced from Kol Tzoriya Vechol Zov.
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Dec 04, 2009 at 01:47 PM Askupeh Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Don't these two "crises" compliment each other (i.e., divorces free up a new crop of mates that singles can now access)? ”
I would add that it's much easier for devorcees to find a Shidduch then it is for an older single. The divorcee doen't have any more any illusions while the older single is looking for a "Mister Right".
22
Dec 04, 2009 at 01:49 PM formelly Says:Report as Inappropriate
isn't divorce a better option than to live with someone you do not like or stand.
I am just talking about you really cannot stand your spouses personalty you realty do not get along?
Is it really better for children to see parents who really do not like each other. the kids can see these and it probably does more harm than if the parents get divorced.
Just my 2 cents
23
Dec 04, 2009 at 03:16 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ And you can add, do away with Beth Din and Judaism altogether. Let's sing together " womens liberation" which is to be porek ohl and become a hipster.
That is exactly the reason for marrying off your chlidren young before they get influenced from Kol Tzoriya Vechol Zov. ”
At which point they visit the author to get a divorce because they married too young!
24
Dec 04, 2009 at 02:45 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
self advertisement and nothing new, 99% lawyers wants you to divorce or at least start divorce, because they can take from you a nice retainer. if lawyers will talk you out of divorce he be out of business.
25
Dec 04, 2009 at 03:45 PM Sad & Pathetic Says:Report as Inappropriate
Half of my friends are divorced. I think it is very sad. They now have kids and are very lonely (one friend text messages me at all hours of the night...) I agree sometimes there are problems that warrants a divorce ie husband cheating on wife. Other friends are just fed up with their lives for no reason ie. money isssues, or "getting on my nerves". Realize that you are in this together (go out and work if $ is an issue...) Both people have to be "mivater" (giving in),( which is how we teach our children), and to look away from pettiness, ie. If you insist on flowers for shabbos, go buy them for yourself! Dont pick a fight! and may there by shalom Al Yisroel by all yidden!
Amain!
26
Dec 04, 2009 at 03:56 PM Shimon Says:Report as Inappropriate
Schonfeld and Goldring is a reputable firm.
You GET what you pay for.
27
Dec 05, 2009 at 02:03 PM Elderly Single Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What does one do when after 30 plus years you're very unhappy and very miserable? You've gone to several counselors and sessions with your spouse to no avail. The concensus at each counselor was that each spouse should change in a certain way. You change but your spouse who promised to change, not only does not change but rather takes revenge and punishes you by making the situation worse. Try another counselor? been there done that. Keep your mouth closed and be miserable so that you have peace? Been there done that too. ”
Quite right. It happened to us after 40 years.. We were both very unhappy for many years but waited till all the children had got married. We did what we could to try and save the marriage. We both knew it was a non-starter but we had to go through the motions. Eventually we got divorced. Being elderly and single is no picnic but, in our case, at least, we are both happier than we would have been had we stayed together. Like you, been there, done it :-). Each case is different and should be viewed on its individual merits.
Ein G-tt, Ein Mamme, Ein Weib.
28
Dec 05, 2009 at 07:58 PM suffering from abusive wife Says:Report as Inappropriate
I ask all of you to think before you post, this a very hurtfull topic and it aint no picnic going to 10 counslers, pschyciatrist, life coach, rabbi's and rebetsins, trying desperatly to save 3 children from suffering, it's not appreciated when you give your 2 cents without taking others feelings into consideration, if you havn't been through the roler coaster than please don't post, and for the guy in monsey thers someone "gelb" a very good shulem bayis counsler, good luck and I'm sorry for what your going through
29
Dec 05, 2009 at 09:23 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
The story with older people is another issue, but I wonder how much the divorce crisis among young couples is actually being fueled by the values which are corrupting the shidduch process. Marrying for looks, prestige, or how much money is being offered is a good way not to find someone compatible. Marrying someone so you can brag about him/her to your friends is a good way to marry the wrong person. Likewise, for a girl to marry the first guy she can get because she's afraid of staying single is also a recipe for disaster.
It starts with the parents. They are the "gatekeepers" for shidduchim. If they have standards and values that have nothing to do with finding a compatible match for their child - as opposed to a "good" match which has status bragging rights - then they are setting their children up for unhappiness. Educate the parents about what they should be looking for - that is the first line of defense against divorce. Don't necessarily blame the young people - they can only accept/reject who their parents have already decided to "hear," and they will be operating with the values that those same parents have taught them (consciously or unconsciously).
30
Dec 05, 2009 at 09:39 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What does one do when after 30 plus years you're very unhappy and very miserable? You've gone to several counselors and sessions with your spouse to no avail. The concensus at each counselor was that each spouse should change in a certain way. You change but your spouse who promised to change, not only does not change but rather takes revenge and punishes you by making the situation worse. Try another counselor? been there done that. Keep your mouth closed and be miserable so that you have peace? Been there done that too. ”
I am moved by your story. I am a counseling psychologist and have dealt with marital issues. When a couple comes in for help, I like to discover the deep, intrinsic needs that the spouses have. When we discover the particular needs, I encourage the spouses to try and fulfill each others' needs. These needs are the things that mean the most to each spouse. The things that mean the most to a spouse may be surprising and may have deep rooted origins. When the members of a couple understand where the others' needs are coming from it is often easier for them to make the effort to please each other.
This is a different approach than just asking spouses to change. Change alone is difficult if we don't understand why exactly we have to change.
It's not about therapists telling clients what to do, or change. It's about finding the key to each soul and helping the couple understand each other's keys - which are usually formed by background, upbringing and personality.
I hope that you and your spouse will still find solutions in your marriage. I believe there is always hope.
31
Dec 05, 2009 at 11:16 PM What we need Says:Report as Inappropriate
For a long-term relationship, there is a need for intimacy. Authors like Rabbi Mordechai "Gary" Neuman have gotten on Oprah innumerable times due to the very common need for emotional intimacy. Both partners need to be satisfied, but this is most likely if each partner tries hard to satisfy the other. Those who have grown up with secular values (so evident in our community) will become selfish. Add to this quickie marriages after 3 or 4 dates without establishing a relationship, and presto! we have a crisis on our hands.
32
Dec 06, 2009 at 12:10 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ does anybody know of a counselor in Monsey where I can go for counseling? ”
counselor can help you only if you and your wife both want to save the marriage, but just do not know how. if you want stay married but your wife doesn't, nobody can help you
33
Dec 06, 2009 at 12:36 AM formely seperated Says:Report as Inappropriate
i strongly encourage to go for the type of therapy as #30 mentiond, i have done that and it worked, im happy to share with you that im happier then ever, and i am a wittnes that everything in this article is true.
yet i think it has to be the "will" on both sides to make it work otherwise it is a waste of time and money, yet for those who have the will get out and get the help, there is hope, and it is amazing the wonders this therapy can do.
and yes i recomend it for everyone (even older couples) who wants to strengthen their marrige you will feel much more fullfiled, good luck.
34
Dec 06, 2009 at 01:11 AM reply to #30 Says:Report as Inappropriate
Of course couples shouldn't jump for divorce, but there should be a limit to counseling also, all you rabbis and thearspists out there: you take our money without hesitating, knowing that financial problems is not easy on a couple,
No one has the shoulders to say, "enough is enough" instead you say let's try this and let's try that, session after session, costing thousands of dollars, this is your way of making money? Have you no shame?
I have yet to come across an honest thearapist / rabbi, who will tell you clealry "this is what we'll try and if it dosn't work, than you shouls get divorced" nobody would say that, but they'll rather pull you down for another 10 sessions, and keep on pulling your leg.
so let's make it clear "there isn't always a fix" the torah wrote a parsha on get for a reason, and don't give people false hope, so that you can make a living off broken-hearted people
35
Dec 06, 2009 at 01:42 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ In my experience, many of the divorces in the kehillah reflect real crisis and often spousal abuse and the fact that women especially are discovering they no longer have to suffer in silence for decades. Indeed, the most interesting point that comes out of this article is that frum women are feeling less and less constrained and intimidated and are prepared consult attorneys recognizing that states have laws that offer them powerful protections that just don't exist at the Beis Din. ”
I agree that women today are realizing that they don't have to put up with abuse (and I don't mean just unhappiness, lack of communication/Sholom Bayis). Another very important part of pre-marital counseling would be having frank discussions with girls, while yet in seminary about how a potentially abusive husband may appear, so that while still dating, a girl may be able to pick up what sometimes is only found out the hard way - after a terrible, abusive marriage, necessitating divorce. Preventing abusive marriages from ever taking place can help reduce some of the divorce rate of young marriages. Women should not suffer out abuse for 30 years, till all their children are married off, and the poor mother/wife is a shmatta, and a shell of herself.
36
Dec 06, 2009 at 01:53 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Quite right. It happened to us after 40 years.. We were both very unhappy for many years but waited till all the children had got married. We did what we could to try and save the marriage. We both knew it was a non-starter but we had to go through the motions. Eventually we got divorced. Being elderly and single is no picnic but, in our case, at least, we are both happier than we would have been had we stayed together. Like you, been there, done it :-). Each case is different and should be viewed on its individual merits.
Ein G-tt, Ein Mamme, Ein Weib. ”
How sad for people to be unhappily married for 40! years. And, then their children, in their marriages have to deal with all the issues of the distorted "Marriage chinuch" they received. When people are divorced - a spade is called a spade, and children know their parents had issues that they'd better learn how to circumvent/avoid/do better in when it comes to their own marriages. It's understood that there were problems - don't have to unearth the truth! However, an "intact" family, in which the values of marriage are warped leaves children with lots of "stuff" to work out later with therapists etc. They have to first unearth the truth, because there is so much more confusion.
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Dec 06, 2009 at 08:59 AM Rabbi Dr. J. Phd. Says:Report as Inappropriate
The main problam in most cases is the "SHVIGGER" parents who butt in and try to live through their children and don't allow them to grow up and work it out. Instead they put there big fat nose in and add fuel to the fire causing massive explosins.
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Dec 07, 2009 at 04:22 AM matzahlocal101 Says:Report as Inappropriate
I didn't bother reading the whole article, as soon as i got to the part about "people marrying too young" I glanced back to the top and was not surprised to see it was a modern orthodox author advocating us to follow the ways of goyim around us, who have an even higher divorce rate. I have often thought about why 99% of my Chasidisha friends who got married at 18-20 are happily married even thought hey didn't date for three years like the modern orthodoax and the goiyim and they are by and large more well adjusted and happier than most MOs in their situation. It occurred to me that the simple truth was they got married in order to be married. Not run away from their parents, not in anticipation of great sex, not show to off a beautiful spouse to friends, not to get an extra source of income, not to get their own car and own house, they got married to be married. Being married involves give and take on every level, but if the goal is being married, the give and take is expected and accepted because it's a prerequisite to being married. In 1910 15 percent of marriages in America involved at least one person under 15. They probably stayed married longer than todays couples.
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Dec 07, 2009 at 10:38 AM gaveaget Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ does anybody know of a counselor in Monsey where I can go for counseling? ”
If you look you will find my email address. I can give a few options of therapists in Monsey that I know that will work to save your marriage.
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Dec 07, 2009 at 10:43 AM Remarried Says:Report as Inappropriate
Thank you to the person who added the comment about divorce being written in the Torah as an option. While most are quick to vilify this option, it is a WONDERFUL option to have. My ex-wife and I were divorced approximately 2 years after marriage. We had no children, B"H, and it was a very amicable divorce. We both married divorced individuals and have families of our own. My wife brought at daughter into the relationship (from her first marriage) and I have been happy to raise her as one of my own while at the same time ensuring that her bilogical father is given the utmost respect. I can't speak for my ex-wife (as we cut ties many years ago), but I am very happily married and my wife and I share the same goals and outlook on life. My wife's ex-husband has found his match as well and plans to be married this summer. I am glad my ex-wife and I chose the divorce route over continuing to live unhappily.
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Dec 07, 2009 at 03:18 PM Steve Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I didn't bother reading the whole article, as soon as i got to the part about "people marrying too young" I glanced back to the top and was not surprised to see it was a modern orthodox author advocating us to follow the ways of goyim around us, who have an even higher divorce rate. I have often thought about why 99% of my Chasidisha friends who got married at 18-20 are happily married even thought hey didn't date for three years like the modern orthodoax and the goiyim and they are by and large more well adjusted and happier than most MOs in their situation. It occurred to me that the simple truth was they got married in order to be married. Not run away from their parents, not in anticipation of great sex, not show to off a beautiful spouse to friends, not to get an extra source of income, not to get their own car and own house, they got married to be married. Being married involves give and take on every level, but if the goal is being married, the give and take is expected and accepted because it's a prerequisite to being married. In 1910 15 percent of marriages in America involved at least one person under 15. They probably stayed married longer than todays couples. ”
I missed something. Why is it good to be married in and of itself? Dont you think being married to the wrong person is worse then being single? BTW, a long marriage is not necessarily a sign of happiness. It might be, but some people really are miserable their whole lives. As to marriages before 1910, uhm, there are laws against marrying 14 year olds now. You go to jail for that. Gee, I wonder why?
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Dec 23, 2009 at 04:03 AM Divorce Says:Report as Inappropriate
Separation and divorce really brings a lot of hurt for both individuals who used to believe that their love will see the through, only to be frustrated by so many things that caused their break up. The proceedings even add more insult to injury, as both undergo rigid questioning and tense dialogue.
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Jan 13, 2010 at 09:30 AM FYI Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ In my experience, many of the divorces in the kehillah reflect real crisis and often spousal abuse and the fact that women especially are discovering they no longer have to suffer in silence for decades. Indeed, the most interesting point that comes out of this article is that frum women are feeling less and less constrained and intimidated and are prepared consult attorneys recognizing that states have laws that offer them powerful protections that just don't exist at the Beis Din. ”
Statistics show that abuse comes from BOTH genders almost equally.
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Jan 13, 2010 at 09:37 AM burned says Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ In my experience, many of the divorces in the kehillah reflect real crisis and often spousal abuse and the fact that women especially are discovering they no longer have to suffer in silence for decades. Indeed, the most interesting point that comes out of this article is that frum women are feeling less and less constrained and intimidated and are prepared consult attorneys recognizing that states have laws that offer them powerful protections that just don't exist at the Beis Din. ”
I divorced my wife after years of emotional abuse from her when she went and cheated on me with her college professor. I got married young - 24 - and stuck it out and worked on it.... Being divorced is no picnic, it's especially for my daughter. But for me it definitely beats the alternative - being married to that spoiled brat of a witch...