Israel – “I sat on the bus line from Kiryat Gat to Kiryat Malachi next to a young haredi man. He started elbowing me and shoving me. He also swore at me and warned me not to sit next to him,” 66-year-old Evelyn Assal related, describing her experience boarding a bus on her way to a funeral.
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“I purchased two tickets so I would have enough space. I don’t understand why this man suddenly treated me that way.”
The argument between the two caused a delay in the bus’ departure, to the annoyance of the passengers.
The ultra-Orthodox youth was urged by the passengers to allow the woman to sit next to him and police forces were even called to the scene, but refrained from addressing the matter due to the non-criminal nature of the incident.
“The whole thing was taken out of proportion,” sad Nadav Berkovitch, who was on the bus at the time and witnessed the event. “There was a big argument on the bus. Some of the passengers encouraged the woman and supported her. Others said they were late and were being held up,” he said.
Berkovitch noted that during the altercation he approached the haredi man and offered to sit next to him. “The man refused. But he did so out of a principal which I don’t understand. There were other available seats on the bus.”
The incident ended only when two soldiers moved to the front seat, where they are legally allowed to sit, the woman moved to the chair behind the driver while the young man moved to a back seat. “It’s just intolerable behavior,” Assal said cryingly. “He cannot act this way. Shame on him.”
The Egged bus company stated in response that passengers are free to sit where they like on that bus line. “If a passenger decides to act like a bully, the driver knows how to handle the matter, including taking the entire bus to the police station.” Sources at Egged also stated that the matter will be looked in to.
Sounds like a chosid shotah…
I don’t know where he learns but it can’t be a real Yeshiva. Whats the heter to hurt other people steal others time which can’t be repaid and generally make a huge chillul Hashem when there was clearly other seats open on the bus. What did this idiot think he was proving? What principle? He has to ask mechila from everyone on that bus most importantly the woman who he reduced to tears. I hope his Rosh Yeshiva gives it to him over the head for trampling on Hashem’s Torah.
What’s the problem?? Why can’t they do what we all do on the monsey monroe williamsburg boro park buses?? Men on one side with a mechitza and women on the other side. I never had a problem to sit seperate from my husband for one hour. Or men in the front and women in the back. There were never any problems of what I know.
shame on this teenager, this is not called frum that is a straight out chillul hashem
may he be ashamed of himself and me as a frum person if i was on the bus i would of thrown him off #1 she was 66 yrs old how about it says on all buses to get up for the old (lets not forget it says in the torah as well) some respect whats with our youth where have we gone wrong #2 there were other empty seats get up and move urself u little young kid
Sounds a lot like the Monsey bus. Same stuff goes on with that bus – fights over the mechitza. It has, on more than one occasion, come to fist fights. Thank G-d I don’t have to ride that bus any more!!
I was on a bus from Jerusalem to Tzefat. Some alter Yid was hyperventilating because there was a woman (me) sitting in the row in front of him and also in the row behind him. He asked if I would change seats. I showed him my cane and said I have arthritis and it’s hard for me to get up. He hyperventilated all the way until we came to the rest stop, then he asked me again to change seats if I was getting up anyway. I said only if he would carry my laptop to the other seat. He got off at Meron.
Did he sit down next to the woman, when there were other seats available on the bus?
Or did the woman choose to sit next to him when there were other seats on the bus?
The story fails to mention this point.
I agree that even if he was there first, he should have gotten up and gone to another seat, and avoid any altracations that can bring to Chilul Hashem.
what a chillul hashem and he cant sit near her but he can touch her? and besides shes 66
Straight up it sounds like a horrible story of Chilul Hashem. But unfortunately, I wonder if it isn’t more likely that this young man has some kind of mental and/or emotional disability. Perhaps he should be on meds, or perhaps he didn’t take them that day. Stable, well adjusted people do not act that way. Unfortunately, mentally ill people often do not recognize in themselves the illness and remain untreated. If you see someone acting in such an extreme way, I’d think, without a doubt, that a doctor should be consulted.
If i was on that bus i’d have personally escorted this kid off the bus. What a low life. Where’s the respect for someone older than you? I guess he never learned about respect. It must not be part of the curriculum anymore. We should cry when we hear such stories.
the story doesnt make any sense if he was shoving and elbowing her im sure people wouldnt have just stood there, i think this old lady doesnt like (i didnt use hate) chareidim, she couldve sat in other seats!!!!!!
I never believe in being frum on someone else’s cheshbon. Any reason why he couldn’t just stand?
Why is it when a chareidi jew does something that could be considered frum, everyone viciously attacks him. Such as not wanting to sit near a woman. “You may agree or disagree”. However, there are thousands of places in our seforim that would indicate that it would not be proper tziniyus.
No where in jewish literature, laws, Rabbonim, does it mention the mesiras nefesh and criticality of having a Menorah put up for Channukah in a central public place as in Montana. The Rabbi there made the biggest chilul Hashem. “However, these same people are defending him that he did the right thing.” We have to show those goyim that we need the menora.
Blast the frum chareidi yid as a Chosid Shota, as a fool, as an individual who learned the wrong manners in yeshiva. But praise the so called Rabbi in Montana for fighting with the goyim.
A while ago I had the z’chus of traveling Jerushalayim to b;nai brak to see the Naroler Rebbe.
The chillum haShem that took place when the Chareidim pushed to board was beyond anything I have ever seen. These Israeli thugs are thugs, that’s all. Once on the bus a man with a knit kippah explained that that pushing, shoving and no midot is a big problem and that and similar behavior is why they are hated.
Why don’t we learn from our Gedolim? A scantily clad woman sat down next to Rebbe Shlomo Zalman Auerbach on the bus. After a moment, he pushed the stop button and said, “Excuse me,” I have to get off.” He then took the next bus.
An observer asked him, “Why didn’t you just change seats?” Rebbe Slomo Zalman said, “That would have embarassed her. The fact that she does not dress tzeniusdig does not warrant my humiliaing her”
If only we learned from our Gedolim.
If the young man did not want to sit next to a lady fine, he has Halocho on his side.
However, touching her is definitely against Halocho and also very aggressive and rude.
Why aren’t these young people taught Derech Eretz.
Further why not just move to another place on the bus.
All extremes are questionable
There is some terrible mental disease afflicting Chareidi bochurim over the past year or two that is resulting in these instances of boorish behavior and sometimes open violence. The Gadolim of the Chareidi kehillah are trying their best to get things under control but there is a new generation of zombi-like bochurim who are seething with anger and hatred because they are watching the demise of their vision of yiddeshkeit and have no parnassah and no hope for a normal life. The are taking out their anger on normal yidden.
Its interesting . There are hundreds ,or maybe thousands of cases DAILY in Israel where Secular people ,bother or hurt others and I have yet to see a headline ” CHILONI teenager does something wrong ” / Yet when one probably mentally ill teenager in Charedi dress ,does something strange ,all of a sudden rthe Headlines come . Did anybody ever say that Chareidim dont have mentally unstable or even delinquent kids ,or just wierd people . We are not immune to having a small percentage of strange or problem kids . But why the double standard in the headlines . ?
Don’t ever believe a secular story at face value they have an agenda to push.
Case in point “if there was empty seats” why couldt the women go there? maybe the man showed her the other seats and she said no I want to sit here. I would any time give the benefit of thought to a frum man then to any anti chereidy dirty newspaper.
Who ever heard someone buying “2 tickets” I don’t believe a word that lady claims
Just another anti chareidi story a day keeps the black hats at bay
Am I the only one who thinks that the women’s side of this story sounds too perfect? She bought TWO tickets? Uh huh. Whe
reply to #21
There is nothing halachically wrong sitting next to a women, it might be no so tzniusdick, but according to srict halacha it is permitted. However if there are no other seats available then some poskim prohibit it but Rav Moshe allowed it c.f. Igros moshe Even Hoezer Vol 2 # 14.
What would one do on a London bus?
The same should apply here, to a non-mehadrin bus. i.e. you (chareidi man) just do what you can, but not dare get into any conflict. Move, stand, get off, request, or still sit, if it is pikuach nefesh not to get up (as long as there is no yetzer hara, otherwise, maybe get up and die, or atleast beg and cry first). If you break the law, thereby taking away human rights from others, you should know that you are being evil.
Any reason to start a problem and push ones weight around. Riot on Shabbat where it has absolutely nothing to do with you and now prodding and hurting an older woman who was minding her own business on a bus. This certainly seems to be the path that those who are the ‘true and observant Jews’ act these days while they are certain that those who were born Jewish but are not as observant are not considered Jews at all.
I think the Charediem are feeling more and empowered and are trying to push their believes in every aspect of Israeli live
Am I the only one who thinks that the women’s side of this story sounds too perfect? She bought TWO tickets? Uh huh. Whe
What exactly makes this guy a chareidi? That he was wearing white and black or that he didn’t want to sit next to a woman and made a huge fuss? sounds like a chiloney in costume to me. If you assosiate the term chareidi with chilul hashem, then please don’t shlep the torah into the mess.
This sort of behavior left reason a few exits back and crossed the border into Bats in the Belfry hatred of women.
What issues could there be?
A) He could be ritually defiled by sharing a seat with her while she’s menstruating.
Not even vaguely a concern with a woman of 66.
B) He could be driven to lustful thoughts and actions by her provocative dress and manner.
I put it to you that any man who is that sexually aroused by a woman old enough to be his grandmother should be in a mental hospital, not on public transportation.
C) His rabbis and family taught him that women were essentially disgusting. What’s more, it’s his Divine Right to abuse them if they don’t do what he says.
Yup. We have a winner here. C’mon down and claim your prize, an autographed copy of Simone de Beauvoir plus a hearty kick in the crotch from the next younger, stronger woman he tries that sort of disgraceful behavior on.
in reply to #46
You obviously did not understand what I wrote. Reb Moshe holds that not only if there is only one seat on the bus next to a woman one may sit there but even if there are other seats on the bus one may sit next to a woman. Rav Wosner prohibits it if the only seat is next to a woman. Are you saying that Rav Wosner is imposing his chumros on other people. But all would agree as can be seen clearly from the famous story with Rav shlomo Zalman zatzal that it’s not the best thing to do. According to you why did Rav S.Z. zatzal bother getting off the bus ?
It seems the guy was already sitting and this aggressive anti-religious woman sat next to him to provoke him “He warned me not to sit next to him” That does not sound like the guy attacked the woman. It sounds like he was minding his own business and this lady chose to pick a fight even though there were other seats available. I see nothing in the story that says he instigated it and she didn’t.
Makes me sick!! He should have just been thrown off the bus.You can throw all his yeshiva learning out the window considering he feels it’s okay to act like this , especially to an older woman! Shame on him!