New York City – Yeshiva University Panel About Homosexuality Draws Hundreds

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    The mashgiach ruchani of Yeshiva University, Rabbi Yosef Blau, introduces a panel discussion called Being Gay in the Modern Orthodox World to a standing-room-only crowd in Washington Heights (Photo by Michael Orbach/The Jewish Star).New York City – As willing as the four panelists on the dais were to speak about their orientation, it seemed clear they would rather have been in the audience.

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    “I’m gay and nothing I’ve done can change that,” said Avi Klopstick, the president of Yeshiva University’s Tolerance Club and an openly gay student at the college. “I fought for six years, every Rosh Hashana, denying who I am. Every Yom Kippur with tears streaming down my face, asking G-d to take it away. My test is not that Hashem made me gay and I have to become straight, but my test is to live with it.”

    The panel, held in Belfer Commons on Yeshiva University’s Wilf Campus in Washington Heights on December 22nd, was a first. Titled “Being Gay in the Modern Orthodox World,” it was run by the Wurzweiler School of Social Work, and the Yeshiva University Tolerance Club. Three alumni and a current YU student spoke about their homosexuality. Rabbi Yosef Blau, mashgiach ruchani of Yeshiva University, was the moderator. In his words the panel was meant to address, “the pain and the conflict that is caused by someone being gay in the Orthodox world. “


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    166 Comments
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    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Huh? YU has reached a new low.

    DEEPTHINKER
    DEEPTHINKER
    14 years ago

    It’s about time YU stopped pretending it is a “Yeshiva.” It has become just another politically-correct Liberal college.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    sick sick sick

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Oy VEY. Where were the roshei yeshiva, why were they not there to address this!
    Nebach, these people are “ill” and we should not exclude them from our midst but we should not treat this as an acceptable thing at all.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Kol Hakovod to YU for sponsoring this important program that conveys a message of tolerance and understanding. While we should not “promote” homosexuality, Rav Blau,shlita, clearly displays what is a truly torah-based concept of acceptance of every jew as he or she is. What a refreshing respite from the hateful bigotry of some so-called gadolim who seek to attack and denigrate those who follow a different lifestyle and alienate them from yiddishkeit.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    oy vey> Will Mishpacha Magazine do an article on this too?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    they should go to rabbis, not be given the pupit!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    what was the point of this??to have people come outa the closet????doesnt seem to b any point to this massive gathering of homosexuals admitting their orientation!!!!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    No, this crosses red lines.

    BeenThere
    BeenThere
    14 years ago

    If you were to read the entire transcript of the forum, you would see that those in positions of authority were not speaking to condone, or trying to express any sort of support, for homosexual behavior. As was expressed by Rabbi Blau, this is an issue that is of no debate, as the Torah makes the halacha quite clear. The issue is also not one of acceptance, but awareness. With such complete discontent and what borders on hate being used to address homosexuals within our community, it causes those who have this particular issue and niayon to feel as though they have no one to help them overcome their nisayon, as even having such a nisayon associates you with those that others hold in contempt. This does leave people feeling alone in their struggle, and can lead to them sadly leaving frumkeit, turning to the decadence and decay of outside gay culture. Creating dialog like this forum gives people the trust and faith in the community to help them with their problems. Take if from one who knows.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Nebech, this is a taivah like someone would like to eat bacon or lobster…

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    if one has homosexual desires and doesnt follow up on them, he should be a very respected individual. this means hashem gave him an extra nisayon, and being shomer torah umitzvos, he fights very hard not to violate halacha and passes the test that hashem has given him!
    YU is in no way promoting homosexuality! They are giving over great chizuk for those who may need it.

    oy li m oimar oy li im loi oimar
    oy li m oimar oy li im loi oimar
    14 years ago

    We are in the depth of galus, in mem tes sharie tumah and this what we need to deal with… The question is if this phenomenon exists in all yeshivos and communities, but it is shoved under the rug, or it is only common in YU where the population is more left wing oriented. If the case is the former then they desreve credit. If it’s the latter, then its a shame on them.

    YU Student
    YU Student
    14 years ago

    Everyone should know that a statement was put out the day of the event by the Roshei Yeshiva condemning the event. Today, Friday, a statement was put out by President Richard Joel and Menahel R’ Yona Reiss condemning the event. There is currently a petition created by the talmidim of the Yeshiva calling the event a Chilul Hashem. It already has hundreds of signatures. This event was created by a small group of students without the consent of the Roshei Yeshiva. It drew students from other universities, that’s why the numbers were so high. Again, the President, Rabbeim and Talmidim of YU were all against this event and have all come out with strong statements against it. This information should be posted along with the news reports covering the event. I ask the VIN editor to please add this to the main article! Thank you and Good Shabbos.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    it wasn’t a massive gathering of homosexuals. It was a massive gathering of people who want to know how to deal with people who live among us and are suffering with a very difficulty nisayon. It is a dialogue that I think needs to happen.

    Avi
    Avi
    14 years ago

    Rabbi Blau told a reporter:
    I DON’T BELIEVE THAT BY DENYING A PROBLEM, IT WILL GO AWAY.
    I wish our Rabbonim would understand that.

    Shimon
    Shimon
    14 years ago

    Will there be similar gatherings/workshops for other Torah prohibitions?

    gevaldig
    gevaldig
    14 years ago

    You bunch of crackheads, kudos for YU, how do you deal with it in your Yeshive huh? when does Satmer have such a panel?

    Digusted
    Digusted
    14 years ago

    These are sick people.Its a TOEVA not a TAAVA, like the torah says clearly. Yes I am anto gay and proudof it. We dont need another mabul.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    In response to number commenter #1 : Huh? YU has reached a new high.

    KAS
    KAS
    14 years ago

    Nebech. This is almost as bad as trading sexual favors for geirus

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    This event was truly an amazing one. In spite of what many believe the only reason for this event was not a political agenda, a Halachic debate, it was just plain facts. These people stood up there courageously and told the world their stories and struggles of what it’s like to grow up in a Frum community and to be gay. We all have the right to judge anyone in the way we like, however, if your judgments aren’t supported by proper data, then they are completely discredited. How can you call these people Evil? Do you even know them? Open your eyes and see that we are all the same, we all strive to become closer to Hashem in our own way. But when you judge, discriminate, or ridicule, your pushing these people away from Yidishkeit. And even though they might be living a life that is not exactly according to Halacha they are still our fellow jews and we must love them equally. Furthermore, it’s not our place to say which Halachos are stricter then the other ones, for example: In my community a full beard is part of the way we live, and there are so many people that walk around openly without beards, do we judge them? No we don’t. So why judge people that you know nothing about?

    mm
    mm
    14 years ago

    a bunch of retards

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    If you read the WHOLE ARTICLE you will see the Roshei Yeshiva’s opinion of the event. They in no way endorsed it and were not there because the discussion was not a halachic discussion. It was stated out right and understood that homosexuality acts are against the Torah. I am not saying I am endorsing this event however we must remember that only acting on the desire is assur mideoraisa. The point of this panal was based on articles written by students anonymously during the previous year. It was a panal to understand the struggles they are going through being homosexual, yet still following all the halachos. It saddens me that many people read this and assume the worst in these people. We must be dan Likaf zechus (A halacha in the Torah pretty close to the Halachos of Arayos) that they don’t act on their feelings. They deserve that respect, everyone does. Another thing is the program was not meant to represent the whole university, it was only sponsored by one YU gradute school and the YU tolerance club. We must remember during our day to day lives to find out All the details and sides in a situation, and to give everyone the respect and benfit of the doubt they deserve.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Let’s face it. This conference looks good in Washington.

    I wonder what the RCA has to say about the Nancy Boy, mud surfer lifestyle this conference catered to. $hame! on the RCA rabbi’s that took part in it. This is not torah leadership!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    These type of conferences that focus on Non Frum Lifestyles force people to think hard as to who they align with. I hope that YU soon learns that while it makes good PR with the non-Jewish world to have such conferences, it moves the rank and file tzibor to the Right out of concern of the left (formerly centrist camp).

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I would strongly suggest that anyone who reads this blog takes the time to go to vimeo.com and watches the video of the event. Whats clear after watching the speakers is that none of the 4 individuals who shared their experiences actively chose to be attracted to men. This was not about promoting an alternative lifestyle. It seems to me that this was about the challenges of remaining a shomer torah even when you have a yetzer horah for something forbidden. We have all seen that its not just gay people that follow their yetzer horos and do things that are immorally wrong. Unfortunately. the greatest amongst us also have yetzer horas and at times fall.

    Yehuda
    Yehuda
    14 years ago

    Good for YU and Rabbi Blau

    His closing comment is absolutely correct “I don’t believe by denying an issue, it goes away.” Any decent person who has had personal knowledge of a sincere gay person to whom, nebach, Hashem has given this nisayon, cannot but feel compassion for what it must be like to have to live with it.

    It is important for the rest of us to understand this, and to applaud the efforts of those who try to live Halachic lives, despite this terrible burden.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    and if a student is mechalel shabbos, shouldn’t we throw them out of yeshiva? what difference is this aveirah. a toeivah, have that Shabbos. Students were thrown out of yeshiva by the Chofetz Chaim for smoking on Shabbos. how is this different|?

    reader
    reader
    14 years ago

    The attendance and participation of Rabbi Blau is a chillul Hashem of massive proportions! The panelists did not say: we have this nisayon but overcome it and don’t do to’ava:; they live in sin and with sin!

    esther
    esther
    14 years ago

    should there also be a public forum for adulterers? of course there are individuals whom Hashem tested with this taivah in every segment of frum society but this is a private matter that should be discussed with a rav who can handle the discussion and with a frum therapist.making a public forum on this with gay,frum speakers can only help to make this avairah more acceptable within at least the modern orthodox world.

    Yossi
    Yossi
    14 years ago

    I heard an interesting shiur recently from a real erliche yid. He said that the difference between this generation and last is that previously, if someone was a choteh and wanted to do teshuva, they would recede to a quiet corner and do teshuva, and would be terribly ashamed of their past transgressions.
    In this generation, unfortunately, every choteh u’machteh is given a platform, and even after they do teshuva, they proudly recall their sinful ways (to show where they have come from).
    It may seem like we are being openminded by letting such issues come to a debate, but in reality, we are just giving an opening to all this shmutz to enter our society.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Be advised that after a stormy 5 hour meeting of the furious YU roshei yeshiva the president of YU and the dean of RIETS issued a statement criticizing the event

    Mendel
    Mendel
    14 years ago

    Hashem I love a McDonalds burger is it ok if I cant resist??

    Rodeph Noshim
    Rodeph Noshim
    14 years ago

    I hear next month YU will be having a seminar on wife swapping and then one on men who can’t stop going to strip joints. After all, we should not deny those issues either.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    If Richard Joel is really against it then he should remove Rabbi Blau from his position.

    get me an advil
    get me an advil
    14 years ago

    I’m sick to my stomach. yu has been irrelevant from the rest of klal yisroel for a long time already . no wonder my rebbe called it y.u.seless. reb aron said its a brocha that its in manahttan and not brooklyn so its not mashpia on us . h-ashem yerachaim alaynu

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    No wonder more and more younger people are drifting away from their religious backgrounds every year. These young people understand how cynical, illogical, and hypocritical religious authorities are for the most part in the yeshiva world.
    You won’t find many rabbis like Rabbi Blau who understands that sticking his head in the sand or spewing hypocritical nonsense against gays will not make the issue go away anytime soon. But other rabbis are accustomed to sound like ill educated and clueless when they can not confront a challenging topics of life.
    The same rabbis that teach all the hate against the gays to their students are the ones running around sniffing drugs, involved in child molestation, and force women into sex for favors like conversion, divorce papers etc…

    Only ignoramuses will call gays “ill” when there is no credible scientific evidence behind their claims and then tell them that god gave them an extra test in this world that they must pass forever. Try telling a heterosexual that he can never engage in intercourse with the opposite sex ever in his life or he will be committing an avera; I want to see how many of the gedolim would pass this test

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Message from the President and Menahel of RIETS

    In light of recent events, we want to reiterate the absolute prohibition of homosexual relationships according to Jewish law. Of course, as was indicated in a message issued by our Roshei Yeshiva, those struggling with this issue require due sensitivity, although such sensitivity cannot be allowed to erode the Torah’s unequivocal condemnation of such activity. Sadly, as we have discovered, public gatherings addressing these issues, even when well-intentioned, could send the wrong message and obscure the Torah’s requirements of halakhic behavior and due modesty. Yeshiva has an obligation to ensure that its activities and events promote the primacy and sacredness of Torah in our lives and communities. We are committed to providing halakhic guidance and sensitivity with respect to all challenges confronted by individuals within our broader community, including homosexual inclinations, in a discreet, dignified and appropriate fashion.

    President Richard M. Joel Menahel Rabbi Yona Reiss

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    rachmono litslon condoning issur kerrisus in a so called”yeshiva” will issur aishes ish be next? SHUVU YISRAEL!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    There are 2 issurim in the torah that are classified as Toevah — the second is Gezel

    For all the readers who are incensed by all thigs gay — and defend their position by invoking biblical ideology — lets take a moment and reflect on their view of people in the community who less than honest in their dealings —

    to the contributor who is scared of another mabul — I hasten to point out that the straw that broke the camel’s back and broufgt the mabul was gezel

    for those of you who are unable to fathom that there are situations (and subsequent aviros) that are beyond what an individual can handle — i ask you to explain suicide — is there a better example of a person being faced with more than they can handle.

    I am a hetrosexual and can only imagine the pain of a relgious gay person in the community. I feel compassion for all the people who are disenfranchised by the community.

    For all of the people who are quick to judge and complain — I hope your shortcomings and religious inconsistencies are never made public and analyzed by other holier than thou people

    joey
    joey
    14 years ago

    This is nothing new norman lam was interested in having gay groups on campus years ago. There is a famous tape from Rav gifter zata”l, in which he cry s out against this abomination especially in a place that calls itself a yeshiva!
    Torah will never change, Yeshivas will never change!
    Enough “modernity”!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    FEELINGS AND ACTIONS ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Just because you are gay does not mean you are engaging in homosexual acts.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Somebody mentioned that Richard Joel has condemned this event. Does anybody have any proof of this?

    sechel
    sechel
    14 years ago

    You know, I read all comments and I think your missing the point.

    Let’s be blunt, I’m hetro, I’m single, and I’m shomer torah umitzvos. Want me to deny that I don’t want to have relations with women ? (Worded neutraly for this forum) I do, but control myself.

    True its not as bad as mishkavei zachar, but we all have urges and challanges and the ribono shel olam gave us bechira chofshis “no burden too heavy to shoulder”

    Any attractive hetro male or female out there, living in the general world will agree with me. The challenge to ignore and rebuff advances by the other gender let alone control yourself from making advances.

    P.s. Does a smoker who craves a ciggarett on shabbos become a toeva? Or a baal teshuva that craves chazir? Your all stuck in the sand

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    #5 unless your not jewish I hope your not serious!!!

    OMG
    OMG
    14 years ago

    I applaud the courage YU exhibited, in the face of orthodoxy virulent opposition to gay rights, it is time to call out these self anointed leaders, who never learned or understood what we Jews should be and what we should strive for. As I said before a designation like Rabbi doesn’t mean a thing if you don’t have the Jewish heart, which cares for the weak, hungry, poor, and discriminate against, that is what makes us different than others, and if you don’t have these traits, I don’t care how learned you are, or what color you hat is, you might as well renounce your Judaism.

    TOLERANT GEDOLIM
    TOLERANT GEDOLIM
    14 years ago

    TOLERANT GEDOLIM 4 of 4
    Sikkum: The issue with the Tropper parsha is not just about immorality but about our allowance to accept such intolerant gedolim in our midst. Our hachlata should be that our berometer of what a godol comprises of is one who reflects only ahavah v’achdus yisroel and one who shows signs of intolerance should be thrown from our machaneh with the same kanu-us as we treat immorality as in the story in the gemora with the tziduki and the esrogim in the beis hamikdash. May our very hachlata towards achdus yisroel arouse the rachmonus of hakodosh boruch hu to release us from this bitter choshech hagolus bimheira.

    cp
    cp
    14 years ago

    The “gay” issue is important bc it seems these people have very difficult emotional lives. But so do people with other sexual desires that are so clearly assur. But this is a PRIVATE matter. We have therapists for dealing with this. Not public forums where, CH”V, someone could be lead to think this is somehow muttar.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I read these comments in amazement. The chasidh community has a huge problem of pedophilia and yet the let molester daven next to their kids while condeming someone tht has not even acted out on his taivah