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Israel - Rabbis Change Views on Who's the 'Mother' of IVF Children |
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Israel - Many of the country’s most influential rabbinical arbiters have gradually changed their minds from considering the woman who undergoes in-vitro fertilization (IVF) with donor eggs the baby’s halachic mother, to regarding the donor - even if she is not Jewish - as the real mother.
The new opinion, according to Rabbi Dr. Mordechai Halperin, means that the government bill to regulate the donation of ova must be passed immediately, even though it is “not perfect.”
Halperin, who headed the Health Ministry-appointed committee that prepared the bill going back 10 years, disclosed this at the 10th annual conference of the Puah Institute for Fertility and Medicine According to Halacha in Jerusalem on Wednesday. It was attended by over 1,500 people - men and women strictly separated by a divider - and presented lectures on women’s health issues by leading rabbis and physicians from around the country.
Because of the complete turnover of opinion among leading rabbis as to who is the mother according to Jewish law when ova for IVF are donated, more “Jewish eggs” must be donated so that desperate, infertile Israeli women will not have to go abroad to purchase eggs from non-Jews.
After years of deliberations, the bill was passed on its first reading by the previous Knesset, but it still must be given official “continuity” by passing it in the present Knesset.
Due to the long delays by religious parties and others, two secular MKs presented a copy of the government bill as a private members’ bill for passage that would not require continuity status. After many consultations with rabbis, Deputy Health Minister (and Ger hassid) Ya’acov Litzman said recently he will bring it to the committee that grants continuity status so it can move ahead.
Halperin said the bill was prepared initially for social reasons, but that these took on added urgency for medical and halachic reasons.
Twenty-nine years ago, after a woman died following her altruistic donation of ova, the ministry set regulations that only a woman undergoing fertility treatments could donate extra ova to another woman. It was meant to protect the health of the donors and discourage women from selling their ova.
However, when some years ago a leading gynecologist was caught taking extra ova from women he was treating for infertility and selling them to others, the number of women ready to donate was reduced almost to zero, forcing would-be mothers without healthy ova to go abroad to purchase them. Most of these were produced by non-Jewish women.
With eggs from non-Jewish women now regarded - but not officially stated - by leading rabbinical arbiters as producing non-Jewish babies through IVF, Halperin said at the conference that the bill was even more urgently needed.
As there is currently no government listing of Israeli donors of eggs, it was important under the bill to have a registry so that IVF children that plan to marry are not discovered to be biological siblings, he said. If they married, 20 percent would have children with severe defects, as well as severe halachic prohibitions.
If a baby is produced from a “non-Jewish egg,” when it is old enough, he or she would have to undergo Orthodox conversion when reaching the age of bar mitzvah or bat mitzvah.
In addition, said Halperin, an Orthodox rabbi and trained gynecologist, the bill would allow thousands of healthy Jewish women to donate ova without undergoing fertility treatments and be compensated for their pain and time, meaning “non-Jewish eggs” would not have to be obtained abroad. “It is absolutely legitimate for rabbinical arbiters to reconsider and change their views,” Halperin stressed, declining to name these leading rabbis.
“It will not be an ideal law,” continued Halperin, but it will greatly improve the current situation. It will prevent serious halachic problems, so a great effort must be made to get it passed after waiting for a decade.”
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Read Comments (45) — Post Yours »
1
Jan 07, 2010 at 05:28 PM Anonymous Says:
If a Jewish couple buys the egg from a non Jew for IVF purposes, why wouldn't it be a Jewish child?
2
Jan 07, 2010 at 05:40 PM shimon Says:
“ If a Jewish couple buys the egg from a non Jew for IVF purposes, why wouldn't it be a Jewish child? ”
Because the biological mother isn't Jewish? Isn't that what it this whole discussion about?
3
Jan 07, 2010 at 05:45 PM Anonymous Says:
How come it is legal to buy and sell ovaries, yet it is illegal to buy and sell
kidneys? What hypocracy!
Do you realize how people are being brain washed, and when a Yid was
caught buying kidneys for sick people (neither was forced), he is being
treated and looked at like a criminal!
4
Jan 07, 2010 at 05:52 PM Anonymous Says:
Because the egg donor is the mother.
5
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:04 PM Why did they change their minds...? Says:
This article leaves more questions than answers. Who changed their minds, which Rabbonim? What was the reasoning...?
6
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:15 PM Dr. Not Really Says:
Reply to #3
I'm no biologist, but there is a HUGE difference between selling harvested eggs versus the actual ovary.
7
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:23 PM Anonymous Says:
I don't understand any of this. A baby begins at conception. How can a non-Jew "bring down" a Jewish neshama? Obviously the egg can never be Jewish unless the biological mother is Jewish. It seems very simple to me, and yet the rabbis can't decide......
8
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Because the egg donor is the mother. ”
This is not a donor- it is a seller
9
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Because the biological mother isn't Jewish? Isn't that what it this whole discussion about? ”
The story about buying an egg, once title changes what does the source matter.
10
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ If a Jewish couple buys the egg from a non Jew for IVF purposes, why wouldn't it be a Jewish child? ”
Because the source of the baby (all the X chromosomes) is not Jewish and the woman carrying the fetus is considered like a "surrogate" mother.
11
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ How come it is legal to buy and sell ovaries, yet it is illegal to buy and sell
kidneys? What hypocracy!
Do you realize how people are being brain washed, and when a Yid was
caught buying kidneys for sick people (neither was forced), he is being
treated and looked at like a criminal! ”
For one thing, woman have an almost limitless supply of ova (a female is born with millions and sheds them every month until menopause) but only 2 kidneys.
Since most humans only want 2 babies in their lifetime, selling dozens, or even hundreds of ova does not decrease their fertility and chance to have their 2 babies.
12
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Reply to #3
I'm no biologist, but there is a HUGE difference between selling harvested eggs versus the actual ovary. ”
I'm no biologist either but I am almost positive there has never been an "ovary transplantation" in the history of medical science; that would be like trying to transplant a testicle.
13
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I don't understand any of this. A baby begins at conception. How can a non-Jew "bring down" a Jewish neshama? Obviously the egg can never be Jewish unless the biological mother is Jewish. It seems very simple to me, and yet the rabbis can't decide...... ”
That's why this new Rabbinical ruling has been issued for exactly this reason. Children born of Non-Jewish eggs transplanted into Jewish surrogates must undergo halachic conversion. It would be better if the Jewish women used only Jewish eggs.
14
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:38 PM Anonymous Says:
Never understood how this can be halachally allowed, as no one ever thinks of the poor child that is to be born. Eventually the child grows up and how must he or she feel accepting the carrier as the mother and yet the actual biological mother being someone else. At least an adopted child has a normal background of parents that for some reason or other couldn't raise it; but this is a preplanned situation. There might be children who are up for adoption even if they're not infants, that could use the raising of a normal set of parents and family and that would be a big mitzvah.
15
Jan 07, 2010 at 06:50 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ I don't understand any of this. A baby begins at conception. How can a non-Jew "bring down" a Jewish neshama? Obviously the egg can never be Jewish unless the biological mother is Jewish. It seems very simple to me, and yet the rabbis can't decide...... ”
You are incorrect. Al pi Halacha the baby becomes a baby 40 days AFTER conception. Prior to that it is considered basar b'alma.
16
Jan 07, 2010 at 07:05 PM Anonymous Says:
It is my understanding that if a fertilized egg from Jewish parents is implanted in a non-Jewish surrogate mother, the baby is not considered Jewish since the mother carrying the baby to term is not.
17
Jan 07, 2010 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:
Why is it better to use jewish eggs with the problem of siblings and mamzerus. They would potentially have the status of asufi. Wouldn't non-jewish eggs be better because you can do a conversion and there is no problem of potential incest/ mamzerus?
18
Jan 07, 2010 at 07:41 PM Shai'la Says:
Would that mean if the egg donor was a Jewish woman and a non Jew (Surrogate) was carrying the baby, then the baby would be Jewish and not have to go through Giur?
19
Jan 07, 2010 at 07:53 PM Robert Says:
so lets look at it the other way...
what if a jewish mother donates an egg to a gentile couple for IVF,
are we now saying that baby carried by a gentile woman and fertilized with the gentile sperm is jewish?
20
Jan 07, 2010 at 07:56 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Never understood how this can be halachally allowed, as no one ever thinks of the poor child that is to be born. Eventually the child grows up and how must he or she feel accepting the carrier as the mother and yet the actual biological mother being someone else. At least an adopted child has a normal background of parents that for some reason or other couldn't raise it; but this is a preplanned situation. There might be children who are up for adoption even if they're not infants, that could use the raising of a normal set of parents and family and that would be a big mitzvah. ”
In the non-Jewish world, the child need never be told he was born of a donor's egg. He was born of a mother who (really, really) wanted him so there is no need to cast judgement (as in "poor child"). Sometimes IVF is done with the mother's own eggs so there REALLY is no need to make an issue of it. The only case where it becomes an issue is if the mother is Jewish and the donor is Gentile.
21
Jan 07, 2010 at 08:01 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why is it better to use jewish eggs with the problem of siblings and mamzerus. They would potentially have the status of asufi. Wouldn't non-jewish eggs be better because you can do a conversion and there is no problem of potential incest/ mamzerus? ”
In the frum world there is absolutely no problem of mamzerus as no frum woman would ever donate her eggs so a frum IVF mother can marry off her IVF child to any potential (FFB) mate and the likelihood that they are actually siblings is so remote as to be non-existent. This is based on my understanding that only secular women (usually college students) donate eggs. If you want to produce a child with absolutely no chance of mamzerus, then of course, use a non-Jewish ova.
22
Jan 07, 2010 at 08:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Would that mean if the egg donor was a Jewish woman and a non Jew (Surrogate) was carrying the baby, then the baby would be Jewish and not have to go through Giur? ”
Who knows? We do not have a Moshe Feinstein in our generation so (just to be careful) the child would probably have to be converted anyway (and therefore patur from Cohanus) since it was born of a non-Jewish mother, regardless the circumstances of conception.
23
Jan 07, 2010 at 08:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ so lets look at it the other way...
what if a jewish mother donates an egg to a gentile couple for IVF,
are we now saying that baby carried by a gentile woman and fertilized with the gentile sperm is jewish? ”
Robert,
A non-Jewish woman cannot produce a Jewish baby unless she is an eved Canaanis. The baby would have to be converted regardless, even if he possessed a Jewish neshama in utero (as most Gerim have, by virtue of their seeking out "Jewish" things). Usually single Jewish female college students donate their eggs to infertile Jewish couples and not Anglo-Saxon couples, anyway.
24
Jan 07, 2010 at 09:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ For one thing, woman have an almost limitless supply of ova (a female is born with millions and sheds them every month until menopause) but only 2 kidneys.
Since most humans only want 2 babies in their lifetime, selling dozens, or even hundreds of ova does not decrease their fertility and chance to have their 2 babies. ”
The treatments to prep a woman to be a donor cause many eggs to drop. Ultimately< there is only a limited number of healthy eggs one woman carries (not millions). The treatments can make her ovaries burst in the process.
But having eggs arent necessary for the donor to still live a good life (unless she wants kds of her own after the donation). but kidneys are needed.
25
Jan 07, 2010 at 09:43 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I'm no biologist either but I am almost positive there has never been an "ovary transplantation" in the history of medical science; that would be like trying to transplant a testicle. ”
Wrong there have been testicular transplants from one person to another (father to son) and ovaries from one part of a woman's body to another , read the medical data before you write.
26
Jan 07, 2010 at 09:53 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Robert,
A non-Jewish woman cannot produce a Jewish baby unless she is an eved Canaanis. The baby would have to be converted regardless, even if he possessed a Jewish neshama in utero (as most Gerim have, by virtue of their seeking out "Jewish" things). Usually single Jewish female college students donate their eggs to infertile Jewish couples and not Anglo-Saxon couples, anyway. ”
thankyou for your thoughts
forget for a moment what jewish females college students usually do..
3 questions for you ( yes or no is fine if you dont want to elucidate)
are you saying that to be jewish from birth you need BOTH a jewish egg and a jewish mother to carry it?
is a jewish egg in a gentile woman born jewish or not?
is a gentile egg in a jewish woman born jewish or not?
thankyou
27
Jan 07, 2010 at 10:33 PM Anonymous Says:
“ For one thing, woman have an almost limitless supply of ova (a female is born with millions and sheds them every month until menopause) but only 2 kidneys.
Since most humans only want 2 babies in their lifetime, selling dozens, or even hundreds of ova does not decrease their fertility and chance to have their 2 babies. ”
A little clarification. A woman does not have a limitless supply of viable ova. She is born with as many as she will ever have. A female fetus at 7 months has about 1-2 million follicles. These die down, so that at maturation, a young woman has about 400,000 follicles. Each month, about 1000 die off, and only 1 (maybe 2) complete meiosis to become an ova that can be fertilized. So, during a normal lifespan, she may only have about 400 eggs in total (and only if she ovulates every month--i.e., is never pregnant).
In order for a woman to be able to donate dozens of ova, she would need to repeatedly undergo fertility treatments, with the doctors carefully monitoring her so that her ovaries do not rupture from high doses of hormones. At most, they would stimulate the ovaries to release no more than a small number of eggs.
28
Jan 07, 2010 at 11:18 PM Anonymous Says:
That leaves me thinking
'Am I jewish?' Or can I move on
29
Jan 08, 2010 at 01:36 AM LA LA Land Says:
“ In the frum world there is absolutely no problem of mamzerus as no frum woman would ever donate her eggs so a frum IVF mother can marry off her IVF child to any potential (FFB) mate and the likelihood that they are actually siblings is so remote as to be non-existent. This is based on my understanding that only secular women (usually college students) donate eggs. If you want to produce a child with absolutely no chance of mamzerus, then of course, use a non-Jewish ova. ”
That is absolutely untrue. I know for a fact that frum women (young women not yet married) have donated their eggs to infertile frum couples.
30
Jan 08, 2010 at 03:21 AM The Halacha? Says:
I recall a piece of talmud that states: when there is a halachic arbitration between the leading rabbis in israel and the diaspora, we accept the ruling of the diasporic rabbis.
I read that the majority of American Rabbis including Rabbis Bleich Furszt (sp?) and Cohen opine that the Birth mother not biological mother is the mother that determines the faith.
One one of the factors deciding that is that the egg prior to transplant/ fertilization is maya be'alma same as water. Also we see that (according to one of the midrashim) Hashem transplanted Rochels egg with Leas egg, and vice versa. Dina is still called Bas Leah even though in originally was not her egg. (and though we do not pasken according to midrash it is considered an esmachta) another proof is that if a woman converts to Judaism after the conception of a fetus, the fetus is born Jewish even though the conception the fetus was gentile.
I believe that halachically there are many more reasons to consider the baby conceived of a gintile donated egg jewish. I have quoted the above from memory of different shiurim. If someone remembers more clearly or can shed more light, or knows that I have erred, I would appreciate it.
31
Jan 08, 2010 at 03:30 AM Descendants of donated ova Says:
If a woman underwent IVF with donated ova (eggs) and her Rabbi told her that the child will be Jewish. Now when the rabbi changed his mind, what happens to ancestors of this fetus produced by non Jewish egg? Do you have to have wholesale conversions of all descendants of this donated egg?
32
Jan 08, 2010 at 10:51 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I don't understand any of this. A baby begins at conception. How can a non-Jew "bring down" a Jewish neshama? Obviously the egg can never be Jewish unless the biological mother is Jewish. It seems very simple to me, and yet the rabbis can't decide...... ”
No, it is not so simple -- you may have been listening to some Christian groups whose teaching is not consistent with Torah. I'm aware of no Jewish authority who believes that "a baby" begins at conception. If that were the case, we could not permit in vitro fertilization (many fertilized embryos are destroyed in the process) but in fact the overwhelming majority of poskim permit and encourage it. Orthodox lobbyists convinced the New York legislature to force it to be covered under all private health insurance and under Medicaid. The Tzitz Eliezer opposed it for other reasons and held that a child conceived through IVF, even from the parent couple's ovum and sperm (and not a donor ovum) were not related to the parents.
This is a complex issue and no blog commenter is competant to pasken this.
33
Jan 08, 2010 at 11:31 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You are incorrect. Al pi Halacha the baby becomes a baby 40 days AFTER conception. Prior to that it is considered basar b'alma. ”
whats basar balma? does that mean u can eat it?
34
Jan 08, 2010 at 12:32 PM egfrn Says:
“ I'm no biologist either but I am almost positive there has never been an "ovary transplantation" in the history of medical science; that would be like trying to transplant a testicle. ”
Wrong. It has been done. It is in experimental stages, and not necessarily with complete ovaries, just wedges, but it has been done. Methodist Hospital reported doing it a few years ago.
35
Jan 08, 2010 at 12:34 PM Robert Says:
it seems to me that no matter what a group of authorities paskin, there will come some other authority and state otherwise...
then others come around and quote and quote and then as usual it becomes chumra after chumra
this alone is very sad to me..
the question of who is a jew is getting more complicated...(needlessly i believe)
36
Jan 08, 2010 at 04:30 PM 1 IVF = 6 Million Children - Jews or Non_Jews Says:
Is this a game of monopoly where you get to "change your mind" according to whatever suits best politically or otherwise, play with lives and identity of who is a Jew and who isn't???
Today you decide who is and tomorrow or a 20 years later you change your mind and affect generations of possible mamzerus and Jews marrying a goy and a presumed Jewish Girl of IVF having generations of children all getting married to Jews because they all assumed they are Jews and then "one good morning" someone wakes up "on the other side" and says "I changed my mind" and they are not Jews?
Recently an elderly Holocaust survivor died, who had 2500 decadents. Now if he was female and form IVF and you have 2,500 lives you can PLAY GAMES with - today they are all Jewish and tomorrow you change your mind that they are not and the next day you can change your mind once more that they are Jewish again?
All of these 2,500 (all form one IVF) will all have another 2,500 children in a few years time. 2,500 X 2,500 = more than 6 Million (do the math).
In less than 100 year just ONE IVF can result in 6 Million Children you can PLAY football with to throw them back and forth each day if they are Jews or not!?!
37
Jan 09, 2010 at 07:46 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You are incorrect. Al pi Halacha the baby becomes a baby 40 days AFTER conception. Prior to that it is considered basar b'alma. ”
further, the neshama enters the baby in the birth canal, so the baby is Jewish. this is why a surrogate who is non Jewish carrying Jewish egg and sperm, baby still needs conversion, because in this case the birth canal of a goy, and no neshama...
38
Jan 09, 2010 at 09:10 PM Anonymous Says:
“ In the non-Jewish world, the child need never be told he was born of a donor's egg. He was born of a mother who (really, really) wanted him so there is no need to cast judgement (as in "poor child"). Sometimes IVF is done with the mother's own eggs so there REALLY is no need to make an issue of it. The only case where it becomes an issue is if the mother is Jewish and the donor is Gentile. ”
To No. 20: The child does grow up and becomes a full fledged human being and has the right to know who he or she really is. Every human being has that right. How would you like it if you turned out to be someone else & all the time thinking you're this person and these are your parents? This is plain human dignity and no person should be denied that! Just because science comes out with new things all the time, many times (like cloning) unethical and immoral, does not mean people have to jump on the bandwagon; especially religious Jews! We can understand the feelings of people who really want to have children (and we pray that every couple be blessed), but people have to think a little deeper and further on to the feelings of the child who eventually finds out the truth and might not be forgiving! Something to think about
39
Jan 09, 2010 at 09:58 PM Anonymous Says:
"The new opinion, according to Rabbi Dr. Mordechai Halperin, means that the government bill to regulate the donation of ova must be passed immediately, even though it is "not perfect.""
This quote form the article show that the change in halachic interpretation has been done for political reasons. What "rabbinic authority" today thinks he is big enough to overturn Rav Moshe Feinstein's very clear psak on this matter?
40
Jan 09, 2010 at 10:17 PM Robert Says:
“ further, the neshama enters the baby in the birth canal, so the baby is Jewish. this is why a surrogate who is non Jewish carrying Jewish egg and sperm, baby still needs conversion, because in this case the birth canal of a goy, and no neshama... ”
what about a baby born by cesarian section?
it does not go through the birth canal
41
Jan 10, 2010 at 11:37 AM Anonymous Says:
It would seem clear that since Jewish identity is PASSED-ON THROUGH THE MOTHER's material contribution (DNA), any resulting neshama would be Jewish or not depending on the mother.
Following this it seems quite simple that: an egg of gentile origin would definitely result in a non-Jewish baby, regardless of what path was taken in the interim, for the criteria of Jewish identity are not satisfied.
With regard to an egg of Jewish origin carried by a gentile however, there is still various doubts as to the resulting status of the offspring, due to factors that may impede the residing of a Jewish neshama in this case, such as the nullification of the egg to the body of the mother (basar b'alma) prior to conception etc, or that a Jewish neshama will only reside in a Jewish mother etc.
If the above is valid, it is clear a non-Jewish egg results in a non-Jewish baby, Yet a Jewish egg MAY require other factors as well to result in a Jewish baby.
To address all concerns, an organization should be started to collect Jewish eggs (paying a fair price, or more), and record their donors/recipients in a discreet register to avoid eventual mis-marriage etc, best partnered with Dor Yeshorim
42
Jan 10, 2010 at 06:43 PM Anonymous Says:
does a c section baby need gerus just to be sure?
See comment numbers above 37, 40 and 41.
It seems lechumra we should be asking these questions..
43
Jan 11, 2010 at 01:54 AM Anonymous Says:
A c-section baby does not need geirus!
As far as I can recall the neshama enters the fetus 40 days after conception.
44
Jan 12, 2010 at 02:36 PM Anonymous Says:
for those with inside information: what does Machon Puah have to say about this? will this change their policies? which rabbis made this announcement?
45
Feb 10, 2010 at 10:03 PM Anonymous Says:
Does the fact that Rav Halperin is associated with the Puah institute which would benefit financially make this questionable?
It seems as if Chareidi Jews are impatient with the fact that they are outstripping the birth rates of the dati le'umi and chiloni population, but not fast enough. This psak would of course decrease the numbers born to non-chareidim, and when IVF babies are born and the kids have to be converted, the same rabbonim demand that the families become chareidi in order to convert the new baby, which also helps the demographics.
I can't see why they are standing against Rav Feinstein, Bleich, Bick, and Broyde.