Jerusalem – VIN Exclusive – Rav Shternbuch: Airport Full Body Scans Kosher

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    Jerusalem – Rav Moshe Shternbuch Shlita was asked whether it was breach of Tznius to pass through a full body scan machine at the airport. There are
    two types of full body scan machines that are commercially available for airports to purchase. One type utilizes software to obscure the face and specific body parts, the other type has no such software.

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    Rav Shternbuch responded that, fact, he did not see a problem with it, neither for men nor for women. A Talmid Chochom who was present when
    the Shailah was posed explained that he understood Rav Shternbuch to mean that since the person manning the machine was “osaik bemelachto” it would not cause hirhurim, and there would be no Lifnei Iver violation on the part of the person undergoing the scan.

    The situation is analgous to that of a doctor examining a patient and there would be no distinction as to whether the issue was a medical issue or a security issue. The person undergoing the scan is not doing anything wrong.

    The Talmid Chochom explained that there would also be no obligation to cancel a trip and not travel because of the body scan. The reason is
    that there is an essential heter of Osaik beMelachto.


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    74 Comments
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    harry
    harry
    14 years ago

    yeah because the idiot who the best job he could find was to work in an airport will definantly be “so busy” doing his work he won’t have time to kook at the x-rays. I wouldn’t be surprised if there suddenly was a large rise in interest for this new job!!

    Brisker chussid
    Brisker chussid
    14 years ago

    Not maskim i am not flying anymore pushit pretzoos

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Good to know. I was wondering about the issue.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I’m glad a posek addressed this issue. The pictures, as they appear online, are not all that explicit. They look like an x-ray, that’s it. You basically see a mere figure.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    if someone needs a rabbi to tell him about security issuess ,he needs to have himself examined by a doctor. (of the same gender/her perhaps)

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Finally some common sense.

    karma dude
    karma dude
    14 years ago

    This heter of osek bemelachto raises a whole new issue for me. Living in a kollel till death society, I have a fundamental problem putting my security in the hands of someone who is “osek bemelachto”. This means he isn’t in kollel. I will no longer fly. I will just complain until I die about all the different ways the world doesn’t conform to my egotistical, narcissistic, and in general retarded opinions that I try to pass off as Judaism.

    Frum Yid (female)
    Frum Yid (female)
    14 years ago

    How far does the heter of Osaik beMelachto go? Can I use a male hair dresser to do my shaitels and hair cuts? What about a male masseur? They are also Osaik beMelachto – so I assume it would be muttar, but does anyone know for sure?

    Avi
    Avi
    14 years ago

    Given that the machines don’t show the makeup, jewelry and $1500 shaitels, I don’t understand why anyone would think there would be a problem.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Forget halacha here for a second: some women will not feel comfortable going thru the scanners- it is not a medical issue here and there is NO reason why women can’t scan women and men scan men.
    Who cares if it’s halachically permissible- I don’t want random males seeing me, period. And I am not fat, ugly, etc… i just don’t feel comfortable and i don’t feel it’s the only option. Same reason why I prefer going to female doctors even though halachically i am permitted to go to a male.
    It has nothing to do with religion, just personal privacy issues, so #9 - I am not passing it off as judaism it is just a personal human feeling I have and sorry if you can’t relate but at least try to understand/ sympathize with others a bit who might have dif. opinions that you.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I don’t want people looking at me period. And the thought that people think that they are now secure is ludicrous.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    give me a break….SAFETY FIRST!
    seperate lines in the airports? its embarassing enough when i go to shoprite on avenue I and see the checkout lines that have teh magazine racks covered up.
    if you are too holy to see the pictures on the magazines how about NOT LOOKING!
    the whole world does not have to change to accommodate those who dont know how to direct their eyes properly.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    it doesnt matter. i refuse to be scanned.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    trust me, these security guards will be seeing thousands of people everyday. i dont think they will be looking at you.

    Frum Yid (female)
    Frum Yid (female)
    14 years ago

    Thank you for the helpful opinions. I am still wondering:

    Suppose certain malls or department stores begin using these scanners, would there be any halachic chumra not to shop at those locations, or is that a chumra shel shtus since the same hetter of Osaik beMelachto applies?

    There are clothing warehouses that don’t have proper changing rooms to try on the clothes. I know many customers try on clothes in the aisles – sometimes a worker can see. I always felt that is concerning, but these workers are also Osaik beMelachto, so I guess it is okay!

    Regarding the comments that say it’s okay for a male to photograph women because he is Osaik beMelachto – would that apply also if the woman is not properly dressed?

    Please answer – this si a new area of halacha that we never learned in Bais Yaakov!

    gadolwannabe
    gadolwannabe
    14 years ago

    Baruch Hashem, a gadol with some sechel.

    Lifney Iver? Or Climbing Up the Wrong Tree?
    Lifney Iver? Or Climbing Up the Wrong Tree?
    14 years ago

    If the one viewing the image, is a Goy:

    Is there any issur for a women to be seen by a Goy?

    If the Goy has no issur of Hirhur, then how can it be Lifney Iver, if the Goy is only Mechuyev in 7 Mitzvos Bney Noach.

    Nevertheless, the fact that the women knows that a man is viewing her, as though she had no clothing, will certainly impact the women on a humanistic level and so indirectly Halacha is Impacted because Halacha does not want women to feel that way even if according to the technicality of Halacha there is no direct prohibition per say.

    This is where anyone being asked a Shaalah has to look at the greater and larger BIG PICTURE of it’s global impact rather than consider just one seif in Shulchan Aruch.

    Here is an Example to illustrate this point vividly.

    Suppose someone were to ask a Rav if there is any “Issur” to be subjected to a Standard Physical Strip Search by Police or security personnel if opposite genders are involved?

    A Rav who considers only Technical Halacha could easily give a Heter and say there is no problem because the one doing the visual inspection (there is no touch) is “Oiselk Bimlachtoy”.

    But in fact EVEN GOYIM demand same gender here!

    formelly
    formelly
    14 years ago

    as far as being comfortable with one owns gender to view the scan. what are we to do next test and make sure that the screener is not gay?

    As for me I rather be screened that to get a pat down.

    also I an going for an operation an hernia should I ask that all the people in the surgey staff be male and should the hospital agree to that request.

    For the naysayer, never get an xray, Mri,cat scan, or an operation unless all the people involved are of the same gender.

    And the only way this works if every single one gets to be screened, old young men w oman since someone can just walk with a old person and then just say give me the thing I told you to carry. Or, one can just put it on a child, or dress as a frum yid, and say sorry no scan for me. Then a few minutes latter, kaboom

    Huge Problem!
    Huge Problem!
    14 years ago

    ! ALL ONE HAS TO DO WITH NAKED BODY SCAN IS INVERT IT BACK! BOOM! FULL COLOR PORN PIC OF YOU AND YOUR CHILD!!!***
    Quote

    The full body scanners that President Obama last night authorized to be rolled out in airports across the country at a cost of over $1 billion dollars not only produce detailed pictures of your genitals, but once inverted some of those images also display your naked body in full living color.

    And you don’t need to be a graphics wizard using a $600 software suite like Photoshop to pull off the trick – inverting a photo is a simple process that takes one click and is an option available even in the most basic image editing software.

    We were sent examples of the process by readers and then tested it for ourselves to confirm that simply inverting some of the pictures produced by the body scanners creates a near-perfect replica of a naked body in full color.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Sorry to say, there’s a lot of meshugaim commenting here. Such stupidity. Let’s be truthful, there really is no need for such intrusion, if only the rest of the world would just look to the way ELAL profiles – not by color, religion or ethnicity; but by “behavioural” profiling. These are trained, educated and experienced individuals. Not like the workers at the airports who just got a ‘job’. Quite strange that no country is interested in learning the safest and least intrusive method and most proven security system as ElAl uses – wondering if it’s because it is Israel!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I am waiting for some Muslim clergymen and activist organizations to complain that these x-rays somehow violate Sharia prescriptions of modesty (particularly for women — these are the same people who put their women in burkas) and that forcing Muslims to go though such screenings is a violation of their “civil rights” and/or racial/religious “profiling” and demanding that they be exempt. This, of course, would defeat the whole purpose of airport security, since all of the terrorists were currently face are Muslims.

    Kollel man
    Kollel man
    14 years ago

    I wish to clarify, that it is ossur for a woman to use a male hairdressser for haircuts or shaitels. There is no heter of oisek b’milachto, as his focus is davka on the woman’s appearances and beauty. Even if he is a goy, there is avak giluy aroyos if she is an aishes ish. If she is single it is pritzus.

    Make no mistake!