Jerusalem – Israel’s behavior toward the Vatican over the past 15 years has been “outrageous,” one of the figures behind the 1994 establishment of diplomatic relations between Jerusalem and Vatican City told Haaretz last week. “Any [other] country would have threatened to withdraw its ambassador long ago over Israel’s failure to honor agreements,” Rabbi David Rosen said.
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Rosen is to attend the meeting scheduled in Rome today between Pope Benedict XVI and a delegation from Israel’s Chief Rabbinate, which is taking place at a time of crisis in the Vatican’s relations with Israel and with Jewish leaders.
Rosen, a British-born former chief rabbi of Ireland who is the international director of interreligious affairs of the American Jewish Committee, said the Vatican agreed to diplomatic relations with Israel after Jerusalem pledged to recognize the legal status of Catholic institutions in Israel and exempt Vatican property in Israel from taxes. The process was to take two years, he said.
“Fifteen years later, the state has not ratified an agreement recognizing the church’s legal status,” Rosen said. He said the Vatican wants its internal hierarchy recognized by Israeli law, which at present treats each Catholic church as a separate nonprofit organization.
Israeli bureaucrats wore down the Vatican by negotiating every tax clause separately instead of granting a general concession, as expected by the Vatican, Rosen said. He called claims that the Vatican wants Israel to cede territory to it “falsehoods” propagated by “xenophobes.”
Last month Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon discussed the legal issues in Rome with Vatican officials. He later said the talks “broke down” and that there was a “crisis” in relations.
Meanwhile, some Israeli politicians and Jewish leaders were angered by the Pope’s proclamation last month that Pope Pius XII is eligible for for beatification, despite evidence that he may have turned a blind eye to the Holocaust.
“Most people don’t know that almost every current problem in Vatican-Jewish relations began not with Pope Benedict, but with his predecessor Pope John Paul II, who is now seen as a saint by Jews,” Rosen said.
Should be a wake up call to all those Jews who think that the AJC and ADL are on the side of the Jewish people: And Rosen is no Jewish leader. He is a sellout.
“Papal Knighthood Given to a Jewish Rabbi David Rosen by Gary …
On November 3, Rabbi David Rosen, the American Jewish Committee’s international director … ”
http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a029htRabbiKnight_Morella.htm
Above, Rabbi Rosen warmly received by JPII
Let them open up their caticombs, libraries and storehouses to us so we can take back all of our Jewish artifacts and then talk about tax exemptions. They’re a bunch of cry babies because our existence proves the falsehoods in their beliefs.
we don’t need to recognize Christians in our holy land of the jews, Christianity is a thorn in any sensitive jews heart,.
Also since when is a “Rabbi so worried about the pope? im sure they can find their own advocates, its not a rabbis job, he should be worrying about the status of the frum jewry not about them!
The Vatican has a point here. There is no reason why it should have to negotiate separately regarding every single church property. It doesn’t even have to do this in the United States which does not have any specific agreement with the Vatican.
Rabbi Rosen is a former Chief Rabbi of Ireland.
So we need to pander to the Vatican – which wants to convert us every living moment?
The situation got even worse when some Rav who is in charge of har habayis initially tried to stop the pope from coming to daven by the kossel if he wore a tzalem. Fortunately, that absurd demand was withdrawn when senior government officials intervened and stopped such a meshuge demand which was incredibly insulting the vatican and Catholics worldwide.
Seen as a St. by jews!?! Which Jews? We have long referred to him as אותו האיש for a reason!
Who is this clown? What he says is such an outrage. The Vatican’s attitude toward Jews and Israel has been outrageous. Aside from honoring “Hitler’s Pope” (as a German researcher called him) the Vatican has not uttered a word about Jews sufferring (for example, the rocket barrages from Gaza). The Vatican speaks nicely of the suffering of the Jews during the Holocaust. However, as one Jewish leader (whose name I do not recall) said – If the Vatican spoke as nicely about living Jews as it does about dead Jews, we could have good relations.
We are outrageous, but the church over the last 2 millennia was just fine. Right?
This Rosen fellow reminds me eerily of the so called “Neturei Karta” monsters who try to find favor in our enemies eyes.
He looks more sophisticated, but that’s that.
I have no respect for these quislings.
And with all due respect, go ask the rabbis of Diaspora Yeshiva if the Vatican is trying to get control over Kever David and see what they tell you. Those aren’t falsehoods perpetrated by xenophobes. BTW – this Rosen is a “Rabbi” like I’m the Pope (chalila) but what do you expect, he’s Reform.
Jewish people wake up. Don’t be in denial we are in exile even in israel. we are the most vulnerable in sense of every nation wants to see us wiped out. “one sheep between 70 wolves” we are not allowed to be Misgare Beumos, Don’t fight the vatican if you a right or not. it is a dangerous play. by the very end we will give in if we like it or not. They are stronger politicly from israel. so why make a fight.
Can’t any of you read simple English??? The issue is not how we should relate to the church, whether they deserve to be treated one way or another. The issue is should Israel live up to its commitments or not and like it or not the answer is YES, no ifs ands or buts.
Rav Rosen is the chief rabbi of the yiddeshe communithy in Ireleand and is respected throughout the world. He raises a very legitimate issue that should be addressed before the situation deteriorates. When a great rav such as rosen has to spreak out on the issue, you know the bureaucrats who hate catholic mosdos in EY have run amok.
Jewish people wake up. Don’t be in denial we are in exile even in israel. we are the most vulnerable in sense of every nation wants to see us wiped out. “one sheep between 70 wolves” we are not allowed to be Misgare Beumos, Don’t fight the vatican if you a right or not. it is a dangerous play. by the very end we will give in if we like it or not. They are stronger politicly from israel. so why make a fight.
My 7th grade rebbi used to call him “The Dope”
You are a man of great integrity. We must honor our commitments. If the Jewish people would have observed the Nuremberg laws properly there may not have been a holocaust.
Rabbi Rosen is Orthodox and learned in Ponovitch. The Catholics do not seek conversion of Jews one bit. They just don’t want to be spat upon by yeshiva bochurim.
before you could make new good relations with somebody the old issues have to be resolved for example stolen property from the bais hamikdosh and stolen kids during world war II otherwise there is no sense to it.
The City State of the Vatican is an independent country recognized by the United Nations. The State of Israel, also sovereign and independent, concluded a treaty with the City State of the Vatican and there are currently concerns about the rapidity in which certain representations are being lived up to.
Take the religion out of it, the parties at issue are two separate sovereign countries in a dispute.
n November 2005, Rabbi Rosen was made a Knight Commander of the Order of Gregory the Great in recognition of his contribution to Jewish-Catholic reconciliation (Rabbi Rosen is the first Israeli citizen and the first Orthodox rabbi to receive this honor.) In December 2006, Rabbi Rosen received the Raphael Lemkin Human Rights Award for having founded the organization Rabbis for Human Rights.
Among the many recent issues that Rabbi David Rosen has been quoted on is the caption concerning Pius XII at Yad Vashem. “What Yad Vashem says is not necessarily wrong,” conceded Rosen, “but it doesn’t give us all the information.” Rabbi Rosen quoted eminent historian Martin Gilbert, who says that Pius saved thousands of Jews. [1]
Maybe he is bucking for a job in the Vatican
As the largest owners of judaica and ancient Jewish artifacts in the world, all stolen from us, the only conversation on the table should be full taxation on your nonprofits too until you return what’s ours.
What a idiot, looking for attention in such a negative way,well you can’t help it that how it goes, anyway who cares what” RABBI” Rosen says
Is the catholic religion considered idolatry according to the sheva mitzvos?
the vatican should give back every piece of property they robbed from the jewish people every item they stole us then they can get the hell out of eretz ysrael
How do you tell if a lawyer is lying? Answer: his lips move.
How do you tell a yeshiva guy knows he has lost an argument? Answer: He makes like a politician and changes the topic and attacks his opponent for something else.
The question is: did Israel make a deal with the Vatican, diplomatic relations in exchange for recognition of Vatican claims on certain properties. No one here deals with that question. All the other stuff may be true but has nothing to do with the question. If Rosen’s claim is true we should honor the deal. I despise the Vatican. But if you dont keep your deals no one will make future deals. It is all good and well to talk tough in brookly, but israel has to operate in the real world.