Israel – HaRav Gedaliya Axelrod, a prominent Chabad figure in Eretz Yisroel and the rov of the Chabad kehilloh in Haifa, wrote a scathing letter against Zimroni Tzik, who heads the Chabad House in Bat Yam.
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Addressed as an open letter to the kehilloh and dated Thursday, 6 Shevat, the text of the letter reads as follows:
In the matter of the keness Mr. Zimroni Tzik would like to hold on [Sunday] 9 Shevat in the auditorium at Tel Aviv University, following my letter of yesterday I hereby notify the congregation that I spoke today with two prominent Chabad figures shlita, and they told me they personally heard Mr. Zimroni say he eats on Asoroh Beteves and the other fasts Chazal established, and when people ask how they should conduct themselves he does not instruct them to follow his example, but refers them the holy sichos and tells them to examine them in order to determine what to do, Rachmono litzlan.
Likewise he has done away with Simon 131 in Orech Chaim, Rachmono litzlan, removing Nefilas Apoyim from his tefilloh. In general, he holds that neither a rov nor the Shulchon Oruch determines his conduct.
I can attest that his hashkofoh regarding emunoh in the Oneness of Hashem Yisborach contains heresy and apikorsus, like that of his close friend, Mr. Shmuel Frummer.
Since loyal Chabad members are influenced by him and some have fallen into severe decline as a result, he is considered ‘machti es harabbim’ and is the greatest enemy of Melech Hamoshiach.
His ways are closely reminiscent of the cult of Shabsai Tzvi, sheim reshoim yirakev, and where it may lead, no one can know.
According to halochoh, he should be excommunicated – cherem and niddui – if he does not repent, and he must be removed from our community. As such, with a torn and burning heart I hereby issue a call to carefully avoid these evildoers.
Under no circumstances should one attend the abovementioned keness, which is the exact opposite of gatherings of tzaddikim.
Because not a single rabbi is participating in his event, he has invited the illustrious Rav Kalmanson shlita from the US to speak at the event, and I hereby urge him to avoid the event, and he will receive great reward for doing so.
I’m glad to see that chabad is taking a stance against there wacko’s! This is not the chabad shita, but the shita of a few mishugoim… and people mistakenly think they represent chabad.
May moshiach come soon!
R’ Axelrod has consistently shown that he has a good head on his shoulders. Way to go!
Finally…Somethingclear and unequivocal. I call out to all Rabbonei Chabad to get together and take a unified stand on this entire subject. Rabbi Axelrod’s letter is a great opening and now is the chance to do it. We need A CLEAR Rabbinic stand on what are the guidelines. What is acceptable and what is/was pushed over the limit.
Rabbi Axelrod, this is the fault of Chabad in general and their own hashkofoh regarding the Rebbe Ztzl and his alleged role as Melech Moshiach. Supposedly there exists two camps in Lubavitch, that of meshiachistin and their antis. The difference is just about minimal. Both camps firmly and ardently believe that the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe Ztzl IS Melech Hamoshiach and will return to life as Moshiach when the time comes. This belief is straight out of Xtianity, the belief in the second coming, that a dead person will rise and be the messiah. With this shitah in mind, this guy Tzik took it one step further and said that we don’t have to keep certain minhagim. Rabbi Axelrod, clean up your act, clean up your house. The apikorsis starts with the basic Chabad belief that the Rebbe is Moshiach. That seed of heresy that has been planted in Chabad is growing and will ruin you.
We accepted thousands of ba’alei teshuva. In our basket, there are now a few rotten apples. Discard them until they get treated for their mental illnesses.
Everyone is going crazy and arguing over who is right and wrong all the time. “Apikorus, cherem, excommunication”, all of this talk like we are in 10th century. Do people actually feel threatened by these types of letters especially in Israel where every sect and authority argues all the time?
Even his letter of condemnation refers to this as an enemy of Melech Hamoshiach. There is no (yet) Melech Hamoshiach, and when these guys get that straight, this whole bundle of narishkeit will cease to exist.
it’s about time someone stands up against this falshe mashiach Racmuna Litzlun.
He’s an enemy of Melech Hamoshiach? He’s an enemy of HKBH and his Torah!!
excuse me number 4 while you clearly cant change shulchan aruch and mr zimroni zik is wrong however sandherin 98b and in the yerushalmi talmud tractate berachos clearly states moshiach can be from the dead and what most normal chabadniks believe is not heresy at all although i personally dont say yechi because the rebbe never explicitly said to proclaim himself as moshiach
the problem with jc is that he said you dont need to keep mitzvos and that he was a diety to be worshiped
Its really funny – because Rabbi Axelrod himself belongs to the Messianic group and here he himself is writing against his own people…..
Yiddeshkeit, including the Chabad version thereof, must be tolerant of alterntive views of halacha and we should not behave like children saying everyone should boycott your events since we don’t agree with your hashkofah. Let people decide for themselves whether or not to attend this Keness, listen to what is said, and then make up their minds on the legitimacy of their beliefs. We don’t need others deciding for us.
In reply to no. 15: Christianity was saying not Moshiach came from the dead but that he already came from the living and then died, and his death just interrupted the process of the geulah. This is what we are hearing from certain elements in Chabad. If the Lubavitcher Rebbe was and is Moshiach, he arose from the living and died before completing the process of the geulah. That is a lot different from saying that Moshiach will arise from the dead.
What does he want from that poor guy, when he himself is Moshichist? He is one of his followers.
It’s about time the right thing would be for all of the lubavitcher leaders to admit that their holy rabbi as great as he was made a very big mistake in his last few years.
That won’t happen untill the real mesiach will come ASAP!
“he is considered ‘machti es harabbim’ and is the greatest enemy of Melech Hamoshiach. “
Excuse me? Enemy of “Melech Hamoshiach”? Even this Rabbi who is opposing this Shtus can only describe a machti ess harabim as an enemy of “Melech Hamoshiach” as if that is the problem with being a machti ess harabim!
He clearly is himself a meshichist, he only disagrees with how extreme to be.
The insanity continues.
growing up in a Chassidish family Satmar-Viznits upbringing and then married into a Chabad family Ive learned a whole lot.
(1) the majority of Chabad believe like the G’mara states in several places that Moshiach will come from the living or dead which in that case hoping its the Rebbe Zt’l, nothing wrong in that!
(2) then you have the Moshichistan who believe the Rebbe is definitely Moshiach but had past on and will be revealed as Moshiach when the time comes.
(3) then the Moshichistan who believe the Rebbe never died and of course is Moshiach so go figure…..
the majority of Chabad is b’h very normal unfortunately not a lot who will stand up against the minority out of fear of them being a lonely voice
wow great answer
and i am a chabadnick
I’m #4 . I would answer all of you ignorant unlearned morons who are quoting citations that are completely out of context. Basically, the concept of a dead moshiach coming back to life as the real moshiach is a xtian concept from their corrupted interpretations of neviim, such as “a son will be born to me who will be a light unto the nations”. And then Chabad takes this a step further that moshiach’s name is Menachem. The Gerrer Rebbe Ztzl when told about this said “tell them my name is also Menachem”. He did not mean this as throwing his hat into the moshiach race. Yemois Moshiach and Techiyas Hameisim are two separate concepts and eras, although they may end up being close in time. Rav Akiva and most of the gedolim in that time felt that Bar Kochva was Moshiach. He wasn’t dead and came back. K’Yemei tzeischem m’eretz mitzrayim ereno niflo’os. Just as at that time Moshe Rabbeinu was a dark-horse candidate but very much alive, so too will our moshiach be a living person who will receive from Hashem the spiritual concept of the age-old Moshiach persona.
It’s funny to see how they condemn each other, when he himself is not much different. The other Kinnus on 10 Shvat with a lot of their Rabbonim, is for “60 years to the leadrship of the ‘Nosee’ of the genaration”!…
Nachman: Who cares what the goyim think? I really don’t. What I was trying to say was that our gemarah about Moshiach coming from the dead has nothing to do with the Christian belief. But what makes me say that a Moshiach who comes from the dead wasn’t Moshiach when he was alive? The Rambam in hilchos malochim (uncensored version-look in the Frankel edition) states that Moshiach will accomplish everything at one shot. If he didn’t do what moshiach was supposed to do when we was alive, he wasn’t moshiach when he was bachaim. If the world was not ready, then he wasn’t moshiach!
If you think my arguments are shtusim, I should consider that as praise. By the way, isn’t the proper hebrew “shtusyos?”
To the “Fool” in #10 – I think that it is YOU who is the fool! If you were EVER by a Farbrangen from the Rebbe, the Rebbe ALWAYS stressed that we go only according to the Halach of the Rambam of the end of Yad Hachazoko -NOt any Medrash or Gemara. The Rebbe NEVER mentioned this Gemara
The bottom line is that Moshiach is comuing and we need to prepare by learning torah, doing mitzvohs behidur, educating our kids to be erliche (chasidishe) kids, making sure about being tzniusdik, and waiting constantly for His coming.
Nachman:
You asked me “What makes you say the when the Chazal say Min Hamaisim this individual wasent Moshiach when he was Bachaim?” My answser is taken from the Rambam, who wrote with full knowledge of the gemara in Sanhedrin. If the Gemara in Sanhedrin meant to say that one could be moshiach, die, and come back to complete the task, the Rambam would not have written the way he did. As far as what you say about Moshiach knowing he’s Moshiach while he’s alive, it’s totally irrelevant! The Or HaChaim wasn’t Moshiach, and neither was the Lubavitcher Rebbe, no matter what either of them knew or claimed to know. We only have Chezkas Moshiach when the Bais HaMikdash is built, the golus is over, and malchus bais Dovid is re-established.
fyi,r’ axelrod refers to r’kalmonson as illustrious.i’m sorry to say that is far from the truth and that he he brings disrespect on lubavitch.i’ve heard him speak and among his EXTREME veiws are that sitings of elvis presley,known as “the king”after his death was the beginning of the phenomenon of the rebbe being revealed as melech hamosiach! OY!
Moshiach doesn’t attend college, his wife doesn’t run around with her head uncoverred, she doesn’t smoke in public and moshiach did not work in the Brooklyn navy yard. To qualify as a moshiach candidate, other preperations are required. No one denies that the Rebbe was outstanding and “possibly a great Tsadik only for our poor generaton” but there are hundreds of far stronger candidates from the days of Avraham, Yitschok, Yakov, Shvatim, Neverim, Anshei Kneses Hagdolo, Tanoim. Amoiroim, Goinim, Rishoinim, Achroinim and Admorim.
You can rest assure, a handfull of Nutty baalei Tshuva and Gerim will not decide who is Moshiach!!!! They sound like the guys of the Salvation army ר”ל and the system is quite very similar.
# 64 such hutzpah trying to dishonor a talmid choham with lame aqusations and after that putting a disclaimer that you don’t deny he is a tzadik. If he is a tzadik who gave you a right to open your mouth and attack him ? Where does the Rambam preclude a person who will be Moshiach from working or studying? In fact Daniel who Gemorah lists as an example of Moshiach worked for the treife Babylonian and Persian government and the other example Rabbi Yehudah was a major landlord which didn’t disqualify them.
As far as your other question it is explained that the soul of Moshiach includes the sparks of the leaders of the previous generations thus the Rebbe is indeed greater than the other candidates you mention combined. We can also see that by his accomplishments worldwide which are so great that Jews worldwide and even the representatives of the nations of the world recognize them. In fact in 1992 about 100 countries joined in signing scroll of honor in honor of the Rebbe’s 90s birthday recognizing him being the light onto the nations spreading goodness kindness , education and 7 Noahide Laws. No other candidates you mentioned were so honored in their lifetime.
Who is running Chabad today? That is the operative question. The fact that there is no New Rebbe nor will there ever be is why this stuff happens. Even the biggest anti-Meshichist will not admit that there could or should be a new Rebbe.
#1 ) the Rebbeh learns pshat in Hilchos melochim leharambam:
that the words “YA-AMOD MELECH” means even a melech who passed away after his “NESI-UT”
when the Rebbe’s personal transcriber (REB YOEL KAHAN SHLI”TA) added a footnote “MIKAN RAYA SheMOSHIACH EINOI MIN HAMEISIM”
… the Rebbeh crossed that out, and replaced it with the following:…
“MIKAN RAYAH SheMOLACH KVAR”
simply put Rambam allowes for Moshiach to be any NOSI who in his life time endevored to be “YAKUF-KOL-YISROEL” (note Yakuf vs Hitzliach or Gomar
as long as he was NOT DEFETED or KILLED as Rambam points out re BAR KOCHBA
re THE REBBE’s repeated deniles of himself as moshiach, i suggest you read the Rebbe’s sichos the last 2 years before his stroke -as he reconciles that with the ZOHAR that Moshiach is the Rosh Benei Yisroel!
re the Ramabam’s words “IM YAAMOD MELECH” the Rebbeh negates this as proof of “MIN HACHAYIM” … the REBBEH NOTES IN THE FOOTNOTE “MIKAN SIMON SHEMOACH KVAR” ie the Rambam requires merely that Mohiach be on who has once been a Melech/Nossi b’yisroel!
Which other gadol comes even close to the Rebbe’s “Melucha”?!
in large part paraphrasing rabbi gil student (you can google the link if you want, but vin posting rules wont let me put it here) if you want to assume that the rebbe is not mashiach yet, but will be resurected and be mashiach, then you have to grapple with the fact that rambam in iggeres hateiman states that until mashiach will be unknown until he arises as mashiach, as well as that mashiach must be revealed as such in eretz yisrael, a place that the rebbe zatzal never visited, in the disputation at barcelona ramban argued that jc could not be mashiach because he had failed to fulfill the prophicies, e.g. no more war, something that the rebbe, completely lehavdil and no comparison between the two intened whatsoever, has not done either, sefer habris states that if a person does not finish the job of mashiach but dies we know that he is not the one, shevet yehuda, a history which the mishna berura explicitely permitted reading on shabbos, states that only after we have had geulah will we call the mashiach by that title, the rebbe himself stated that david hamelech could not be mashiach because the mashiach must begin his role while still alive, cont
those who believe that the rebbe already began his role see above with sefer habris and iggeret hateiman, according to the second peirush that rashi brings on the gemara in sanhedrin that describes mashiach they are describing who mashiach will be like, not who he will actually be, maharsha also takes the approach that that entire gemara is descriptive of mashiach abarbanel in yeshuos meshicho also states that that entire gemara is describing what mashiach will be like, furthermore, when the zohar hakadosh describes candidates for mashiach from the dead, it is problematic to say it is talking about those actual people as it uses moshe, who was from levy and therefore not a desencant of david hamelech, as a candidate, and david hamelech, who could not physically be mashiach as rambam describes in his twelth principle mashiach as being a descendant of both david and shlomo, which david ,was not, and even goes so far as to say that anybody who claims mashiach is not descended from shlomo denies hashem and his prophets, which means, since he also had the yerushalmi which states that if from the dead mashiach is david, the arizal and the ohr chaim both state that these verses refer cont
cont. to a gilgul of mashiach, aka another person will be born who will be mashiach but will me the gilgul of the aforementioned people, even the abarbanel that seems to say that mashiach can come from the dead states that he does not agree with that answer and offers other,alegorical, ones for the midrash he was discussing, as for the sdei chemed, first off it wasnt his own writing that people are quoting but a letter by rabbi arryeh leib lipkin, and according to that letter, mashiach will come from the living unless we greatly merit it, if we mearly somewhat merit mashiach bhb”y, he will come naturally from the living, additionally rabbi aharon feldmen, rosh yeshiva of ner yisroel says, that anybody who believes that amongst all the dead in jewish history, including the neviim tannaim amoraim rishonim their has never been a man more worth of being mashiach then the rebbe should not be providing spiritual leadership to the jewish people the rebbe was a great man, a tzaddik, a manhig shel yisrael, but following to the aforementioned,and many more, poskim, he is not mashiach, sheyavo bimhera beyameinu, tihiyeh mitalmidei shel aharon-gavi (zatzals and shlitas wherever appropriate)
believing in the coming of moshiach is only one of the 13 ikrim. There is no point in delving into who it will be since eliyahu hanavi will be mevaser that to us before he comes(and it definitely is not the rebbe as clearly paskened by the rambam who paskens like shmuel einb ein…elo shibud malchuyos)
the greater problem with chabad is the iker of nevuas moshe,ask any chabadnik who was greater their rebbe or moshe rabeinu and you wont get a straight answer.(they usually give you the ispashtusa demoshe thing)thats very scary since that is the one of the fudamentals of yehadus.someone messing with that ,dont need a cherem not to count them into a minyan.
i must commend you for approaching this discussion with DAAS TORAH as the frame of referance!
yasher kochacha!!
the Only problem for you now left is that Rabbi Shlomo Majasky (a chabadzker talmid chacham) has made a likut of those Torah-sources you mentioned + 100 other Torah sources (focussed on all known Halacha, Medrash, Agadeta and Kabbalah) on the subject!
he was directed by the REBBEH to study all jewish sources pertaining to Mashiach n Geulah.
he has been researching this topic for 20 years!! (since1989)
his UnEdited collection (Booklet) of relevant Torah sources has yet to be contested or refuted by any Rav!!
so good luck! on your correct approach!! we need more like yourself to frame the discussion as a DAAS-TORAH based discussion! not P.C. or Xristian etc!
so all who wish to discover the EMES (as defined by TORAH-SOURCES) must do so only via “Learning-Inyanei-Moshiach-U’Geulah”
btw Did you know that a famus Litfisher Posek (in Toronto) also admited publically that his reasearch in Mekorosainu allows for Chabad’s belief of “the Rebbeh returning soon as the Moshiach” -though he cannot personally find a current living “Melech” who fits the bill
to: 73 & 74 & 75
Since you sound open minded i think you deserve a crash course (that is by no means complete!)
hear are some pertinent CHAZALs to help clear up the confusion:
CHAZAL: Dor Moshiach’s neshamos are gilgulim of Dor Hamidbar.
CHAZAL: Dor Acharon’s Emuna (b’divrei moshe) will be tested as was Dor Rishon’s fath
CHAZAL: Geulas Moshiach will follow the same pattern as Geulas Mitzrayim.
CHAZAL: Moshe Rabeinu proclaims the good news “pokod pokadety”
CHAZAL: Moshe’s words fall on deaf ears! Most of bnei yisroel don’t believe moshe! Only a handful take his words literally!
CHAZAL: Mosheh takes off, He disappears, Galus then gets even darker, more difficult…
CHAZAL: Most jews disbelieved HIS words bc of the continued and increased darkness of Galus, and the apparent absence off moshe
CHAZAL: Suddenly Moshe Returns, and leads the jews out of Galus,
CHAZAL: NOW ALL jews believed!
CHAZAL: the same pattern will unfold b’Dor Acharon, with the Revelation of Moshiach and the ultimate Geulah
CHAZAL: (stage of NIGLA ) first moshiach is be revealed, but on a small scale. at that time he will proclaim “anovim higia zman geulaschem”
zimroni-zimrei says it all. A fitting news source, to cause a shturum…
I hope that Roshei Yeshiva and Chassidish Rebbeim will discuss this matter openly to finally resolve this entire machlokes. As far as I am concerned, Rav Schach ZTZAL, the Gadol HaDor for the Yeshiva Kehillah had an open tainah on the Chabad Rebbe and I follow Daas Torah so this matter is closed for me.
A reply to No. 78 – The analogy to Moshe Rabbenu and the Giulas Mitzrayim is not entirely appropriate. Moshe did come, disappear, and return, but he was alive at all times. The Lubavitcher Rebbe is no longer alive. You posit a coming while alive and a second coming after death. The Rambam’s halahca does not allow for this. If the Lubavitcher Rebbe is to be Moshiach from the dead, he is not Moshiach until his resurection happens. To call him Moshiach now is to say he was Moshiach while he was still alive. And if he was Moshiach, why do we have the golus and no bais hamikdash? The only answer is that he wasn’t Moshiach in his lifetime.
Will Rabbi Kalmonson from Cincinnati Ohio attend the kinus as quest speaker or will he respect the psak of Rabbi Axelrod???
Kalmonson is Head Shaliach (whatever that means) to Southern Ohio. He represents Lubavitch in the region. Will he follow this psak or will he support Zimroni Tzik?
I think Kalmonson’s actions will show if Tzik is a lone renegade or is endorsed by official Chabad!!
Since Torah sources support the chabad messianic belief in their Rebbeh, while you dont have to believe it too! at least be Respectful and Tolerant of the 1000s of normal educated Rabbonim etc who choose to believe so!
since the GRA”ZTZAL predicted such a proccces as well as many other mekoros!
enough Rabbonim dont see the Rambam’s illussion to bar Kochba as a contradiction to the GRA and others who predict the 3 stages of “NIGLAH” – “NICHSEH” “NIGLEH” before the building of the Beis Hamikdash etc!
The subject of the criticism is a big meshihist; of that there is no doubt.
I had never heard such charges. They don’t sound serious, but maybe they are. If they are true, then the one who makes them is guilty of lashon hara. If they are not true, then the sayer is guilty of motzi shem ra.
He heard from he heard from . . . and so on.
All in all, he has problems.
I have never heard of this Rav Axelrod, but there are literally billions of people of whom I have never heard.
Thanks to this wonderful Rav, Rabbi Axelrod, that he brought this out to the forefront. This apostate from Bat Yam should immediately be excommunicated, without a question. He is causing a terrible chilul Hashem and is a disgrace to not only the Chabad movement, but to the Jewish people, in general. So many crazies are coming out of the woodwork lately (must be part of chevlai Moshiach)! One doesn’t know what they are going to read about or learn of on a daily basis.
to #65
If the 100 Governents-countries are the decision makers who is Moshiach, you comvinced all of Klal Israel that Hrarav Schach was right. You need Shemtov in Washington to convince Clinton, Busch and Obama that Chabad is going to bring Moshiach. There are very few real Lubavitcher Chasidim that undertstand Chasidus Chabad Hanistar, the (mass)rest are very similar to the 25,000 that go to Uman. Nach nach nach and Neshichistim are all of the same raw material and Refua Shleima will do no harm/
“he promissed this genenration is the last of galus and the first of geula!
he was never wrong thus far!!”
Ok, let me know when “this generation” started and finishes, and we can discuss it further.
“The vast majority of Roshei yeshiva, Poskim, Mekubalim Rebeyim held the Rebbeh as there personal Rav when needing a Bracha or Hadracha!!”
Not just shtissim, but outright lies.