Welcome, Guest! - or
Easy to remember!  »  VinNews.com

Newark, NJ - In Court Dwek Grilled About His Yarmulka, Father Sitting Shivah, And Not Observing The Torah

Published on: February 1, 2010 02:50 PM
Change text size Text Size  
Bookmark and Share

Newark, NJ - Just how many commandments has Solomon Dwek broken?

As cross-examination of the government’s key witness, Solomon Dwek, began this morning in the corruption trial of Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy’s campaign treasurer, the defense has been grilling Dwek on his failure to abide by civil law and the Ten Commandments.

“Up until I started my cooperation (with the FBI) I would operate—I would lie, I would steal, I would cheat,” Dwek said as defense attorney Brian Neary worked to tear down Dwek’s credibility. “I would do whatever i thought was necessary to further my real estate business.”

Dwek was quick to say he had changed his ways, adding, “Once I decided to cooperate, and I signed a cooperating agreement, I did not lie, cheat, steal. I obeyed.”

Advertisement:

Neary forced Dwek to admit that his criminal activity—which included swindling friends, family and members of his Jewish community of Deal—had dishonored his father, a rabbi. Dwek also admitted to owning a gambling boat in Florida that was apparently used for prostitution and suggested he helped others covet their neighbors’ wives in so doing.

Neary harped on the symbolism of the yarmulke Dwek wore and even suggested that his father had already sat shiva for Dwek, having decided he was dead to him.

Nearry then began running through the schedule of meetings between Dwek, defendant Leona Beldini, former Jersey City housing official/school board member Edward Cheatam, the late political Jack Shaw and Healy in Jersey City and Staten Island and tallying up the payments Dwek gave Cheatam—who has pleaded guilty—and Shaw—who died days after his July arrest.

Neary was careful to note that at one meeting Cheatam told Dwek that Beldini does not take cash. Dwek says on the tape that he could instead give a check.

Asked if he ever represnted himself as a rabbi, Dwek said, “No.’‘

Neary noted that Beldini said “Don’t lie, don’t cheat, don’t steal’’ on the tapes. Dwek acknowledged she had said it, said she was referring to Healy and admitted that it is not the way he has operated in his life until the plea deal.

Since 2006, Dwek has had the opportunity to testify under oath on number of occasions, usually connected to his bankruptcy proceedings.

Neary then asked about the people and banks Dwek stole millions of dollars from.

The banks represent people trying to save their hard-earned money, Neary said.
He also noted that starting when he was in bankruptcy, Dwek received $12,800 a month and now gets $10,000 a month, which he, his wife and their five children live on.

“That is from the money you have stolen?’’ Neary asked.

“Yes.’‘

“So you still enjoy the ill-gotten gains on a monthly basis, yes?’‘

“Yes.”

“I notice you wear a religious cap. What does that symbolize?’‘

“The way I was brought up was in a religious orthodox home. It’s the way my parents brought me up. It’s one of the 613 commandments of the bible.”

Neary later asked Dwek if he continued to lie once he became a cooperating witness for the federal government.

“Was your word always gold to them?’’ he asked of FBI agents.

“... I never lied to them.’’


More of today's headlines

Amman - Jordan has revoked citizenship from nearly 3,000 Jordanians of Palestinian origin in recent years and should put a stop to the practice, Human Rights Watch (HRW... Jerusalem - It was like being punched in the stomach," Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said after visiting the Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem Monday...

 

Total115

Read Comments (115)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Feb 01, 2010 at 02:58 PM Anonymous Says:

At least Dwek is redeeming himself by testifying on behalf of the government against all these corrupt public officials and rabbonim but this only serves to remind us of the abuse of power among those in the leadership of the political and religious worlds in whom we have mistakenly placed trust. What Dwek did was terrible but the actions of these others in leadership positions is even worse.

2

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:02 PM Anonymous Says:

sick sick and sicker, when o when will we be done with this creep.
stealing
cheating
coveting women
lying
gambling
prostitution
desecration of the sabbath

all with the cap on his head.

problem is he never put the head under his cap.

sick sick and sicker, that his wife and children stayed with him.

those handlers really will stick it to him when its all over.

they use use and abuse and dump you almost how some men treat women who are looking to be hooked up.

disgusting shameful what have we dione wrong to have such a beast raised among us.
hes the gilgul of the devil.

3

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:04 PM Anonymous Says:

"t’s one of the 613 commandments of the bible." "

THAT'S A LIE

4

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Wearing a kippa is not one of the 613 mitzvot.
It might be minhag, and it gives yirat shamayim, but last I heard it definately is not one of the teriyag mitzvot.

5

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:07 PM Anonymous Says:

"oi lanu miyom hadin, oiy lanu miyom hatochacha"
hopefully the judge will throw the whole thing out
"yesh machriv olamo beshaah achas

6

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Pig what he is. Which some 1 takes him away(don't wanna say kill him -b/c that's not for us to ever do ) -he should stop making a chilul hash-em

7

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:16 PM drop Says:

I hope he drops died!! This guy is such a Chullal Hashem!

8

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Anonymous Says:

Pig what he is. Which some 1 takes him away(don't wanna say kill him -b/c that's not for us to ever do ) -he should stop making a chilul hash-em

You should to t'shuvah for such lashon hora, notwithstanding what you think he has done. Only the r'bso can judge us. The real chilul hash em is the actions of those rabbis in NJ who were participants in his his thefts and fraud.

9

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:21 PM Anonymous Says:

We prob should be raising money for Dwek to ensure he doesn't end up in jail. Pidyon Shivuyim is what it is.

10

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:29 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

"oi lanu miyom hadin, oiy lanu miyom hatochacha"
hopefully the judge will throw the whole thing out
"yesh machriv olamo beshaah achas

You really want these corrupt public officials to go unpunished?

11

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:31 PM joey Says:

His Nebachdik wife still thinks he was faithful to her!

12

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:33 PM Anonymous Says:

He lied under oath! he knows its not one of the 613 mitzvos

13

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
drop Says:

I hope he drops died!! This guy is such a Chullal Hashem!

“ I hope he drops died!! This guy is such a Chullal Hashem!”
We never should wish ill upon another yid no matter how embarrasing his behavior.

14

 Feb 01, 2010 at 03:45 PM DwektheDrek Says:

may he rot for ruining many a life.

Is this creep in witness protection or a baal gavah to the point where is on the public streets?

15

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:05 PM JOEL Says:

covet their neighbors' wives ? WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT?

16

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:09 PM balaam's donkey Says:

Dwek one of the worst criminals in our modern day jewish circles. He doesnt give a darn about his wife his kids his parents his friends his neighbors his community his relitives. He only cares about himself. He will cheat, lie, fornicate, malshin, probably kill if he had the chance........Wow!!! Bottom of the barrel baby!

Brings to mind the Passuk in Yermiyahu. Korei dagar vlo yalad, osie osher vlo bimishpat bichatzi yamav yaazvenu uviachreeso yihye naval......

Like a bird wistlling to chicks it did not raise is one who makes wealth unjustly......
Half way through his life it will forsake him.....
and in the end he will be called a scoudrel.

I see Dwek all over that Passuk

17

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:12 PM OMG Says:

It behooves us to curse another Jew, regardless of his personal shortcomings; he at least is currently doing the right thing, which is to shine a bright light on public corruption and laundering ill gotten money by the some in the Orthodox community, and if some rabbis will go to jail as a direct result of his collaboration with the government, so let it be, and all the questions and the snide remarks by the defense will not make any difference in the outcome, they will be found guilty in the face of a mountain of evidence, and as for his Yarmulka, so what, he sinned while having it on, let repent in court with it on his head.

18

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:14 PM Preacher & Teacher in Williamsburg NY Says:

Q: What is to be learned from all this?
A: There are many more such dwek's around, some wear shtreimels, some even wear "vasse zuken", some are even self proclaimed "talmidei chachomim".
We have to learn to detect them early enough, and stay away. They lie to get your business, they lie about where your money went, and when they are squeezed up against a brick wall, they will masser you too, to cover up their act, so they will be spared from doing jail time, and should do it instead.
For a start, we have to better educate ourselves to learn the difference between pathological liars, and compulsive liars to help us notice symtoms of these crooks. - Simply to know wether or not to even have a converstaion with them. (having a compenent lawyer look through the deal and do some real due diligence, goes without saying)
Lets do some extensive research. There are pleanty of scam artists out there.

19

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

You should to t'shuvah for such lashon hora, notwithstanding what you think he has done. Only the r'bso can judge us. The real chilul hash em is the actions of those rabbis in NJ who were participants in his his thefts and fraud.

judge us? why?
its a gemrua you rather rot in jail all your life then arresting a other jew. i think you are dwek or his family?

20

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:18 PM Yaakovsladder Says:

It's just great that he moved here to Baltimore. Just another headache we have to deal with here.

21

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:23 PM Tanna Kamma Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

“ I hope he drops died!! This guy is such a Chullal Hashem!”
We never should wish ill upon another yid no matter how embarrasing his behavior.

You seem to be ignorant of the way Jewish law handles a 'mosur"

22

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:29 PM Anonymous Says:

We should all cry for the Tzar Hashchina. Imagine Hashem's pain in having such a deranged child? If us Yidden really gave a hoot about our Tatte in Himmel - we would gather en masse to be mispallel that Dwek should have a Hirur TeShuvah... "YiTamu Chataim (VeLo Chotim) min HaAretz UreShaim Oid Ainum" in order to alleviate some of the suffering of the Ribbono Shel Olam...

23

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:50 PM www.thejewishchatroom.com Says:

oyyyyy vay its a pachad pchudim lets discuss it in a formal way like in here www.thejewishchatroom.com

24

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Charlie Hall Says:

You really want these corrupt public officials to go unpunished?

Why do you care so much for corrupt public officials? Are you ranting and raving about all the other law breaking citizens in our country or are you enjoying the fact that one Jew is fighting another Jew? You are right they should not have done it but he has no right to ruin other peoples lives to save his own. Do you at least agree with that?

25

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:52 PM LISTEN UP Says:

chazal say when tragety strikes or are fellow jew miss behave we most do some itro spection look at are deeds look at the way we respect are fellow jew and are fellow man the way we follow the law .....

26

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
Preacher & Teacher in Williamsburg NY Says:

Q: What is to be learned from all this?
A: There are many more such dwek's around, some wear shtreimels, some even wear "vasse zuken", some are even self proclaimed "talmidei chachomim".
We have to learn to detect them early enough, and stay away. They lie to get your business, they lie about where your money went, and when they are squeezed up against a brick wall, they will masser you too, to cover up their act, so they will be spared from doing jail time, and should do it instead.
For a start, we have to better educate ourselves to learn the difference between pathological liars, and compulsive liars to help us notice symtoms of these crooks. - Simply to know wether or not to even have a converstaion with them. (having a compenent lawyer look through the deal and do some real due diligence, goes without saying)
Lets do some extensive research. There are pleanty of scam artists out there.

One should behave in a way that does not give rise to risk of Mesira. If one behaves in such a way, one can still lose money with a crook, but that is all one will lose. Who is so smart that they can't be taken in by a crook? People can be be responsible for not doing illegal acts and to avoid being ensnared by a crook into doing illegal acts.

27

 Feb 01, 2010 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
OMG Says:

It behooves us to curse another Jew, regardless of his personal shortcomings; he at least is currently doing the right thing, which is to shine a bright light on public corruption and laundering ill gotten money by the some in the Orthodox community, and if some rabbis will go to jail as a direct result of his collaboration with the government, so let it be, and all the questions and the snide remarks by the defense will not make any difference in the outcome, they will be found guilty in the face of a mountain of evidence, and as for his Yarmulka, so what, he sinned while having it on, let repent in court with it on his head.

Dwek entrapped innocent people to create cases where none existed to ease his punishment. The people who were arrested, for the most part, were entrapped not people who were criminals, etc.

28

 Feb 01, 2010 at 05:07 PM ShatzMatz Says:

The thing that gets me most from this whole article is that this low-life is getting a $10,000 a month taxpayer funded pension to sit on tuches for the rest of his life. You gotta give it to him. He lived the good life for 37 years by stealing and then he continues living it up on others peoples tzuris. I wonder how much extra they paid him for Rabbi Kessin.

29

 Feb 01, 2010 at 05:09 PM miskebabelt Says:

I cannot rectify anything that he has done however one cannot judge this person as one had mentioned before. He may be suffering a severe mental illness(ie serial killers etc. ) and or trauma . That being said it is very hard to say what one would do living in the exact shoes as him (growing up with the same life experience that he has had. It does not take much for one to make one mistake stupid or not and then traverses out of control (ie gambling problems).

30

 Feb 01, 2010 at 05:15 PM shmiel glassman Says:

to # 10 charlie hall
i was comment #5 although i dont have a personal connection (actually every yid does)
i have lost my respect for the FBI after this story the job of the FBI is to root out "criminal minds" from society the only criminal mind was "DWECK" HIMSELF
these people fell for his trap but they are not criminal minds by any stretch theyre profile does not match what the fbi should be looking for/ even the poloticians which understanbly give some favor to supporters said in the tape "its not right...)if this is not entrapment what is

31

 Feb 01, 2010 at 05:18 PM Jeff Says:

Chevra, this is what happens when you don't learn one 'Yiddish vort' in cheder. You first believe that a minhag (yarmulka) is a mitzvah d'oireisah, then you think that a loy s'essah (stealing) is just a minhag.

32

 Feb 01, 2010 at 05:23 PM antimesira Says:

Reply to #17  
OMG Says:

It behooves us to curse another Jew, regardless of his personal shortcomings; he at least is currently doing the right thing, which is to shine a bright light on public corruption and laundering ill gotten money by the some in the Orthodox community, and if some rabbis will go to jail as a direct result of his collaboration with the government, so let it be, and all the questions and the snide remarks by the defense will not make any difference in the outcome, they will be found guilty in the face of a mountain of evidence, and as for his Yarmulka, so what, he sinned while having it on, let repent in court with it on his head.

Justifying Mesira now?

We have many like you in Crown Heights.
How many Jews have you Mossered on?

33

 Feb 01, 2010 at 05:24 PM Rambam Says:

Reply to #17  
OMG Says:

It behooves us to curse another Jew, regardless of his personal shortcomings; he at least is currently doing the right thing, which is to shine a bright light on public corruption and laundering ill gotten money by the some in the Orthodox community, and if some rabbis will go to jail as a direct result of his collaboration with the government, so let it be, and all the questions and the snide remarks by the defense will not make any difference in the outcome, they will be found guilty in the face of a mountain of evidence, and as for his Yarmulka, so what, he sinned while having it on, let repent in court with it on his head.

אין כורתין ברית לשבעה עממין כדי שנעשה עמהן שלום ונניח אותם לעבוד עכו"ם שנאמר לא תכרות להם ברית אלא יחזרו מעבודתם או יהרגו. ואסור לרחם עליהם שנאמר ולא תחנם. לפיכך אם ראה מהם אובד או טובע בנהר לא יעלנו. ראהו נטוי למות לא יצילנו אבל לאבדו בידו או לדחפו לבור וכיוצא בזה אסור מפני שאינו עושה עמנו מלחמה. במה דברים אמורים בשבעה עממין

אבל המוסרים והאפיקורסין מישראל היה דין לאבדן ביד ולהורידן עד באר שחת מפני שהיו מצירים לישראל ומסירין את העם מאחרי ה

34

 Feb 01, 2010 at 05:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
drop Says:

I hope he drops died!! This guy is such a Chullal Hashem!

You speak in such saintly terms as if the chilul Hashem really bothers. But does it REALLY bother you? Are you such a lofty individual that you feel G-d's pain in your heart? It's hard for me to believe that this very same lofty persona of yours, would also wish death to a fellow Jew - no matter how far he has gone off the path!!! How's about we leave the decision of life and death up to Hashem Yisborach, and you work on your own character improvement. If we stop trying to do G-d's work, and look in the mirror to spend the bulk of out time for improving ourselves, the world would be a better place. Mr. Drop, I wish you much luck in life and may your 'well' wishes that you so flippantly bestow upon others never ill effect you.

35

 Feb 01, 2010 at 05:41 PM Shulchan Oroch Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

You should to t'shuvah for such lashon hora, notwithstanding what you think he has done. Only the r'bso can judge us. The real chilul hash em is the actions of those rabbis in NJ who were participants in his his thefts and fraud.

So the people who object to the terrible aveiros that this lowlife did are the bad ones and need to do Teshuva.
Next you will say Drek is a Tzzadik.

There can not be Loshon Hora when the facts are very public knowledge. This is a forum of opinions how to deal with someone that the Shulchan Oroch STATES -"Mitzvah to kill him on yom kippur"

36

 Feb 01, 2010 at 05:54 PM Anonymous Says:

We should all hang or heads in shame.

37

 Feb 01, 2010 at 06:09 PM he is a classic sociopath Says:

All indications are that he seems to be a classic text book case of a classic sociopath with no conscience at all.

Such people are truly sic and can really never ever stop lying, stealing etc and so it is virtually certain that he still does the same today and will lie not only to the FBI in recent years but he certainly can't help himself form lying even today in court.

This can be sued to discredit him in court by having him purger himself in court and this leads the way to win the case against his testimony.

Being a sociopath is a mental illness and there is no cure for it and so "once a sociopath is always a sociopath. Such people can never ever sand stealing and can never stop destroying other peoples lives and continue doing it till they die.

38

 Feb 01, 2010 at 06:29 PM Doctor Says:

Someone should warn his wife: if he was involved in prostitution, he may very well have a contagious disease (HIV, hepatitis, etc)--and pose a risk to her.

39

 Feb 01, 2010 at 06:31 PM Tana Kama Says:

he made money...

you liedegayers should get a job.

40

 Feb 01, 2010 at 06:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

We should all hang or heads in shame.

"We?" What did I do?

41

 Feb 01, 2010 at 06:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

We should all hang or heads in shame.

Speak for yourself. I didn't do anything wrong.

42

 Feb 01, 2010 at 06:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

“ I hope he drops died!! This guy is such a Chullal Hashem!”
We never should wish ill upon another yid no matter how embarrasing his behavior.

he is a mosser looks like you dont know the dinnim of a mosser

43

 Feb 01, 2010 at 07:06 PM Loshon Hora Says:

He got his deal already, now he may be purposly messing up on the stand. who knows with this Bi-Polar phsyco.
Question to all the poskim bloggers:
May one make a bbrocho with Dwreck in the room? How about asher Yotzar?

44

 Feb 01, 2010 at 07:24 PM Anonymous Says:

What a sham for the deal community that a guy like this was such a respected guy for years

45

 Feb 01, 2010 at 07:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Tana Kama Says:

he made money...

you liedegayers should get a job.

Wrong, he "stole" money. I'd rather be on unemployment than make money illegally.

46

 Feb 01, 2010 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Tana Kama Says:

he made money...

you liedegayers should get a job.

He said that he STOLE money, is that what you want everyone to do?

47

 Feb 01, 2010 at 07:39 PM in my opinion Says:

one question. $10,000 he is making a month is that for the rest of his life? and is it tax free? ((((sounds like a great retirement plan)

48

 Feb 01, 2010 at 07:56 PM Alter K Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

"t’s one of the 613 commandments of the bible." "

THAT'S A LIE

But it's indeed a Good Deed that this guy did

49

 Feb 01, 2010 at 08:18 PM LESkid Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

Wearing a kippa is not one of the 613 mitzvot.
It might be minhag, and it gives yirat shamayim, but last I heard it definately is not one of the teriyag mitzvot.

It certainly did not give this piece of drek Yiras Shamayim.

50

 Feb 01, 2010 at 08:30 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #32  
antimesira Says:

Justifying Mesira now?

We have many like you in Crown Heights.
How many Jews have you Mossered on?

You have a problem with me, but you don’t have any issue with the Rabbis who partook in the illegal transactions, you tell me when should it stop or better when should we go to the police, not money, not molestation, how about armed robbery or just murder, I say no you should go to the police, I don’t see any issue with it.

51

 Feb 01, 2010 at 08:32 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #33  
Rambam Says:

אין כורתין ברית לשבעה עממין כדי שנעשה עמהן שלום ונניח אותם לעבוד עכו"ם שנאמר לא תכרות להם ברית אלא יחזרו מעבודתם או יהרגו. ואסור לרחם עליהם שנאמר ולא תחנם. לפיכך אם ראה מהם אובד או טובע בנהר לא יעלנו. ראהו נטוי למות לא יצילנו אבל לאבדו בידו או לדחפו לבור וכיוצא בזה אסור מפני שאינו עושה עמנו מלחמה. במה דברים אמורים בשבעה עממין

אבל המוסרים והאפיקורסין מישראל היה דין לאבדן ביד ולהורידן עד באר שחת מפני שהיו מצירים לישראל ומסירין את העם מאחרי ה

This is irrelevant in today’s age,

52

 Feb 01, 2010 at 09:12 PM kivi and tukky Says:

The problem is that I lost my whole respect for the fbi

While those innocent man were entrpted by dwek many muslims get entrpted as terrorists while they gp on with regular life
And many regular people get entrepted as drug dealers by the fbi just to show they are doing something while the real criminals stay on the street

53

 Feb 01, 2010 at 09:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Wait until the trial of the rabbonim from NJ before you decide whether he engaged in entrapment or whether he is doing a public service to the rid the yiddeshe community of those who would engage in theft and fraud to enrich themselves and their mosdos.

54

 Feb 01, 2010 at 09:36 PM Susie Says:

shame to him, its a shame to call such a low life a jew. He did not listen to the torah so why call him Jewish. No such people to be born to jewish parents its a klulah.

55

 Feb 01, 2010 at 10:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
joey Says:

His Nebachdik wife still thinks he was faithful to her!

that's not one of the 613. He can have more than one wife

56

 Feb 01, 2010 at 10:28 PM Rambam Says:

Reply to #51  
OMG Says:

This is irrelevant in today’s age,

Which part?

Of course, because of the law of the land we can't and wont go kill anyone, but thats not the point and not being suggested.
The point is the way the Torah looked at the Mosser. Which is the worse thing a Jew can be, worse even then a goy who worships idles. Notice how when the Rambam starts to speak of the Mosser he uses the word אבל , which means "besides", any courtesy we might give a goy or idle worshiper we don't give to a Mosser.

So in some extent this law does apply today.
A mosser should not be counted as a Jew in a Minyan. He should be thrown out of Shul and community. His children thrown out of our mosdos etc... everything we can do to make his life a living hell....עד באר שחת

57

 Feb 01, 2010 at 10:32 PM Alter Rebbe Says:

Reply to #51  
OMG Says:

This is irrelevant in today’s age,

Shulchan Aruch Choshen Mishpat, Siman Shin Pey Ches Seiif Tes, and in the Alter Rebbes Shulchan Aruch Choshen Mishpat Dinei Nizkei Mamon Seiif Vov: “it is prohibited to give over a Jew in to the hands of a non-jew both physically and both financially… both to do so in speech to inform on him or to reveal his intentions… and that who does so has no part in the world to come.”

Shulchan Aruch Chosen Mishpat Siman Chof Vov Seiif Alef: “it is prohibited to deliberate before those who worship idols and in their courts…, even if the their law is a equivalent to Jewish law, even if both parties agreed to go before them on a claim, it is prohibited. And those who go before such a court, is an evil person, and it is as if he spites and scorns, curses and raises his hand to the torah of Moshe Rabainu of blessed memory. And it is in the hands of a Beis Din to judge him and excommunicate him [place him in Cherem] until he removes the idol worshipers from above his friends (Mahari”k Shoresh Kuf Nun Daled). And so would they excommunicate any who assists those who go before idol worshippers (Rivas”h Siman Kuf Beis).

58

 Feb 01, 2010 at 10:41 PM Shomrim Six Says:

Reply to #51  
OMG Says:

This is irrelevant in today’s age,

Ive come to learn that when a person justifies or excuses a wrong act (in this case Mesira), he usually has a horse in the race. This justifier or excuser has either Mosserd on a fellow Jew in the past (or in doing it now) or has a family member who is doing it.

It say nowhere in Halocha that you have the right to Masser another Jew if that other Jew is doing something wrong. There are very clear guidelines as what to do.

For example a case of violence:
It is clear and understood that it is permitted to call the police if he needs immediate rescuing from a beating but immediately after one must call the parties to a Din Torah, and then it is upon the Beis Din to decide if it is permitted to continue with it.
As it is explained in the Shailos U’Teshuvos of the Ram”a Siman Pey Ches: “it seems that it isn’t relevant to this discussion, that specifically at that time during his anger [that he goes to police etc...] it is understandable like is says in the Peskei Merizbur”g, but if he forgot his initial anger is plain and simple that it is not permitted.”

59

 Feb 01, 2010 at 10:58 PM Rishonim Says:

"and Shaw -- who died days after his July arrest"

He died to due to a sudden heart attack, most likely from the arrest. This is precisely the reason the Rishonim explain why its a Mitsva to get rid of the Moser literally, because he puts the lives of others in some form or another at stake.

In either event he will rot in hell, and never come out.

60

 Feb 01, 2010 at 11:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

You should to t'shuvah for such lashon hora, notwithstanding what you think he has done. Only the r'bso can judge us. The real chilul hash em is the actions of those rabbis in NJ who were participants in his his thefts and fraud.

Did you just finish saying that only the rbs'o can judge?!? All I know is that the ACCUSATIONS on the rabbis in DEal are that they transferred money to charitable organizations in Israel. I am not condoning that AT ALL but that's a far cry from Dwek's own ADMITTANCE that he owned a boat used for prostitution and even coveted women into doing so!!! And all with that kippah on his head!! I wish he'd just take it off

61

 Feb 01, 2010 at 11:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Why does the govt. give this moiser $10,000 when all the money is stolen.
And there is no Lashon Haroh on a moiser. This guy is gone. How he is in any Jewish community is ridiculous.

62

 Feb 01, 2010 at 11:35 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #54  
Susie Says:

shame to him, its a shame to call such a low life a jew. He did not listen to the torah so why call him Jewish. No such people to be born to jewish parents its a klulah.

Who do think you are? How dare you to judge his Jewish qualification, Hitler did that why would you track in the same footsteps and judge other Jews, I am not sure that you have the wherewithal to understand what Jewish means, we have enough anti-smites do we need Jewish anti-smites, in the moment you exclude someone from our faith, you yourself are not better then this man. There are many ways to sin in Gods eyes. You are as munch a sinner as this man. I hope one day you will recognize your errors.

63

 Feb 02, 2010 at 12:15 AM heshy Says:

Reply to #62  
OMG Says:

Who do think you are? How dare you to judge his Jewish qualification, Hitler did that why would you track in the same footsteps and judge other Jews, I am not sure that you have the wherewithal to understand what Jewish means, we have enough anti-smites do we need Jewish anti-smites, in the moment you exclude someone from our faith, you yourself are not better then this man. There are many ways to sin in Gods eyes. You are as munch a sinner as this man. I hope one day you will recognize your errors.

How about if a "Jew" robs & murders another Jew? How about if a "Jew" molests & kills a child? Still a Jew? You are a fool. there are certain lines, that if crossed, makes one "oys yid", such as a meshumid who was roidef Jews in years past, or a real Moiser who goes trolling for korbunos for the Govt. Remember, we are not talking about someone who testifies against a co-defendant (also rishus), but rather someone who went to save his skin by going after anyone he could "drey" into the Fed's spider web.

64

 Feb 02, 2010 at 12:16 AM Anonymous Says:

(Reply to #62)I am sorry for you but according to the shulchan Aruch he is not consider jewish u can say what ever (like hitler)he is not a jew ,,,,,,,,,,

65

 Feb 02, 2010 at 12:59 AM from here to there... Says:

"The way I was brought up was in a religious orthodox home. It’s the way my parents brought me up. It’s one of the 613 commandments of the bible."

essentially his claim is that he wears it not for what it symbolizes but b/c it is part of his costume - no real difference to him than a baseball cap.

66

 Feb 02, 2010 at 01:05 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
joey Says:

His Nebachdik wife still thinks he was faithful to her!

It's not lashen hora to publicize someone who steals,because they won't stop otherwise.

67

 Feb 02, 2010 at 07:21 AM Doniels Says:

It's horrifying to see how many people are defending this scoundrel.

I guess he has a PR firm working for him posting these "anti-Lashon Hara posts".

Lashon Hara does not apply to wicked people.

Lashon Hara is not the Hebrew for "be naive and pretend nobody is doing anything wrong".

Lashon Hara means speaking bad about good people; or people who can reasonably by assumed to be good.

68

 Feb 02, 2010 at 07:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #62  
OMG Says:

Who do think you are? How dare you to judge his Jewish qualification, Hitler did that why would you track in the same footsteps and judge other Jews, I am not sure that you have the wherewithal to understand what Jewish means, we have enough anti-smites do we need Jewish anti-smites, in the moment you exclude someone from our faith, you yourself are not better then this man. There are many ways to sin in Gods eyes. You are as munch a sinner as this man. I hope one day you will recognize your errors.

OMG, what is your issue, you are sticking/justifying and excusing this Mosser as if you really have some horse in this race. Is it really like Shomrim Six wrote above and I quote...
"Ive come to learn that when a person justifies or excuses a wrong act (in this case Mesira), he usually has a horse in the race. This justifier or excuser has either Mosserd on a fellow Jew in the past (or in doing it now) or has a family member who is doing it. "

69

 Feb 02, 2010 at 10:09 AM fedup with shtus Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

We prob should be raising money for Dwek to ensure he doesn't end up in jail. Pidyon Shivuyim is what it is.

I hope u wrote this in jest! pidyon shivuyim does not come into play every time a jew gets arrested. especially not for crimes he commited!

70

 Feb 02, 2010 at 10:56 AM OMG Says:

Reply to #63  
heshy Says:

How about if a "Jew" robs & murders another Jew? How about if a "Jew" molests & kills a child? Still a Jew? You are a fool. there are certain lines, that if crossed, makes one "oys yid", such as a meshumid who was roidef Jews in years past, or a real Moiser who goes trolling for korbunos for the Govt. Remember, we are not talking about someone who testifies against a co-defendant (also rishus), but rather someone who went to save his skin by going after anyone he could "drey" into the Fed's spider web.

Let me turn it around this lets assume, your killer and molester comes off the train in Auschwitz and the SS with the dogs chase him into the selection line and he is selected to the left and escorted to the gas chambers as the door closes and the gas starts rushing into the room, this killer and child molester and with his last breath he cries out with sincerity and regret for all he did “Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad - Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is One, this man comes in front of God what do you think would happen to him, this man who just died as a Jewish martyr and did teshuvah with his dying breath, if you think that this person would not be judged properly as a martyr you are wrong and don’t understand the Jewish concept of teshuvah.

71

 Feb 02, 2010 at 10:57 AM OMG Says:

Reply to #64  
Anonymous Says:

(Reply to #62)I am sorry for you but according to the shulchan Aruch he is not consider jewish u can say what ever (like hitler)he is not a jew ,,,,,,,,,,

see my reply to # 63

72

 Feb 02, 2010 at 11:10 AM OMG Says:

Reply to #68  
Anonymous Says:

OMG, what is your issue, you are sticking/justifying and excusing this Mosser as if you really have some horse in this race. Is it really like Shomrim Six wrote above and I quote...
"Ive come to learn that when a person justifies or excuses a wrong act (in this case Mesira), he usually has a horse in the race. This justifier or excuser has either Mosserd on a fellow Jew in the past (or in doing it now) or has a family member who is doing it. "

You are right I do have skin in this game, he is a Jew and as a Jew I am responsible for him, therefore I love him but hate the sin, and furthermore, in my view he is currently doing the right thing by exposing illegalities in the community, that might deter some not to commit any crime and he himself will eventually pay for his crime when he will sever time in jail.

73

 Feb 02, 2010 at 12:29 PM ich bin hadged Says:

OMG, you have severe issues. How I wish you identity would be revealed. Your wife (if someone was drunk enough to marry you), children, parents, grandparents, friends (yeh right!), would all disown you. You are an evil person. At best. Who in their right mind actually CONDONES the acts of this man?! I will have you know that he has ruined more lives than you can imagine. He stole, cheated, commited adultry, (fact! It will come out later), entrapped and single handidly ruined an entire community!! That's you "fellow jew"? That's the kind of person you want to call one of your own? What about the people who are now penniles? Or how about the people who's children now have a hard time getting married bec their fathers are now labeled "criminals" while they have only done something unethical? Do you care for them??? Do you?? Bec. If you did you'd be singing a differant tune. Nay, you'd be egging his house!!

74

 Feb 02, 2010 at 01:16 PM antimesira Says:

Reply to #70  
OMG Says:

Let me turn it around this lets assume, your killer and molester comes off the train in Auschwitz and the SS with the dogs chase him into the selection line and he is selected to the left and escorted to the gas chambers as the door closes and the gas starts rushing into the room, this killer and child molester and with his last breath he cries out with sincerity and regret for all he did “Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad - Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is One, this man comes in front of God what do you think would happen to him, this man who just died as a Jewish martyr and did teshuvah with his dying breath, if you think that this person would not be judged properly as a martyr you are wrong and don’t understand the Jewish concept of teshuvah.

To OMG:

Like a murderer the mosser can't do Tishuva, the sin he did was against another (person) not g-d. Yom Kipper forgives sines against G-d not a fellow Jew. You must ask forgiveness of those you hurt and on top of that if you caused damage (money or others) you must pay it up (if not your asking and even getting forgiven is worthless).
Open A Shulchan Aruch/Rambam and learn the Laws

No matter how you try to spin your justifying Mesira. The more you say the deeper your getting and the more your true colorers are coming out. So who are the poor Jews you are Ratting on?

75

 Feb 02, 2010 at 02:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #73  
ich bin hadged Says:

OMG, you have severe issues. How I wish you identity would be revealed. Your wife (if someone was drunk enough to marry you), children, parents, grandparents, friends (yeh right!), would all disown you. You are an evil person. At best. Who in their right mind actually CONDONES the acts of this man?! I will have you know that he has ruined more lives than you can imagine. He stole, cheated, commited adultry, (fact! It will come out later), entrapped and single handidly ruined an entire community!! That's you "fellow jew"? That's the kind of person you want to call one of your own? What about the people who are now penniles? Or how about the people who's children now have a hard time getting married bec their fathers are now labeled "criminals" while they have only done something unethical? Do you care for them??? Do you?? Bec. If you did you'd be singing a differant tune. Nay, you'd be egging his house!!

All crimes are UNETHICAL. This is not Isreal, and in OUR court of law him and ALL the rabbi's are guilty. How dare you condem someone for speaking their mind. When he begged for money to feed his family, how come your innocent Rabbis didnt offer him cash? Why not offer him food? Why not take his family into their homes? NO, they willingly went 'into business' with a known criminal......so much so that they are on wire tap using your yiddish language in code for money. If this garbage leading your community is innocent in your eyes, then you need help and not the poster you are trying to degrade.....Quite poorly, I migh add.

76

 Feb 02, 2010 at 04:52 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #74  
antimesira Says:

To OMG:

Like a murderer the mosser can't do Tishuva, the sin he did was against another (person) not g-d. Yom Kipper forgives sines against G-d not a fellow Jew. You must ask forgiveness of those you hurt and on top of that if you caused damage (money or others) you must pay it up (if not your asking and even getting forgiven is worthless).
Open A Shulchan Aruch/Rambam and learn the Laws

No matter how you try to spin your justifying Mesira. The more you say the deeper your getting and the more your true colorers are coming out. So who are the poor Jews you are Ratting on?

First my analogy wasn’t meant to absolve a sin between two people if you steal money you must repay what you stole, but you only have it half right, that is why some of us would say tefillah zakkah on erev Yom Kippur because we want to make sure that we forgive and be forgiven, but you still failed to answer my hypostasis, according all the rabbinical teachings that a martyr is the highest level of any Mitzvah, which should count for something in the hereafter, and I am perplexed how can you believe, that you think that it is ok the curse another Jew, and even more perplexing is why would you say that I am justifying mesira, when there is enough rabbinical views that say that in today’s American environment there in no mesira. And as to who I am ratting out well you see I don’t hang around any crooks so I don’t need to rat them out, but rest assured if my rabbi would commit a crime that might effect the Jewish community as a whole, without any hesitation, I would turn him in, and I would hope that the government would make an example of him.

77

 Feb 02, 2010 at 05:00 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #73  
ich bin hadged Says:

OMG, you have severe issues. How I wish you identity would be revealed. Your wife (if someone was drunk enough to marry you), children, parents, grandparents, friends (yeh right!), would all disown you. You are an evil person. At best. Who in their right mind actually CONDONES the acts of this man?! I will have you know that he has ruined more lives than you can imagine. He stole, cheated, commited adultry, (fact! It will come out later), entrapped and single handidly ruined an entire community!! That's you "fellow jew"? That's the kind of person you want to call one of your own? What about the people who are now penniles? Or how about the people who's children now have a hard time getting married bec their fathers are now labeled "criminals" while they have only done something unethical? Do you care for them??? Do you?? Bec. If you did you'd be singing a differant tune. Nay, you'd be egging his house!!

Let me try to clean up my reply the first go around the moderator didn’t see fit to print it.
Regardless your bloviating you failed to tackle my hypostasis, as to my personal life I never knew my grandfather or grandmother they did died in the camps, as to my parents they did die some time back and my wife is not a drunk or backward like yours might be, she is a professional with a masters in her chosen field, my son he is now in graduate school and my daughter she is a senior in high school and was excepted by not less then fifteen different colleges with eight offering full ride, oh one more my dog, she just sits around and has an easy life.
How about you do some introspection as to what you think is worse, a real practicing rabbi who offers for a fee to hide money from the bankruptcy court, or a Jew who is dishonest in his personal business dealings, I would say that the purported rabbi is by far a worst person, because he is a practicing rabbi and the entrapment issue will be adjudicated in court during the trial, I have faith in the juror system, to come to a proper and just verdict. As to this man’s deeds I don’t condone it, he will spend his time in jail.

78

 Feb 02, 2010 at 05:05 PM ich bin hadged Says:

OMG, you have severe issues. How I wish you identity would be revealed. Your wife (if someone was drunk enough to marry you), children, parents, grandparents, friends (yeh right!), would all disown you. You are an evil person. At best. Who in their right mind actually CONDONES the acts of this man?! I will have you know that he has ruined more lives than you can imagine. He stole, cheated, commited adultry, (fact! It will come out later), entrapped and single handidly ruined an entire community!! That's you "fellow jew"? That's the kind of person you want to call one of your own? What about the people who are now penniles? Or how about the people who's children now have a hard time getting married bec their fathers are now labeled "criminals" while they have only done something unethical? Do you care for them??? Do you?? Bec. If you did you'd be singing a differant tune. Nay, you'd be egging his house!!

79

 Feb 02, 2010 at 05:25 PM ich bin hadged Says:

Omg, wow are you dumber then I thought!! Let's start with this, first thing is I believe you are a federal agent. "In our court of law" yeh that's something a fed would say. I happen to be a tremendous patriot myself! So don't you go and lecture! When you've faought in wars for this great country then you can preach! Otherwise keep a lid on it! Secondly, you stated something that shows you have no idea as to the facts. Soloman dwek was from the great SYRIAN community of deal, granted a horrific product, he was not from the chasidic community. So when you say " your rabbis speaking yiddish" it shows you haven't got a clue what is going on here. Next, how come they didn't feed him? Take him in?? BEC HE HAD JUST STOLE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. From the very peoples families he was asking for help! And you fool, people did offer him help. Cash? Food? Homes? This isn't haiti! The man owned 300 properties! He was still driving a lexus. Still eating out in fancy resturants! The only help he wanted, was this kind of help. People felt obliged bec he was a rabbis son and a former phalanthrapist! And FYI- one of the people he helped put in prison (C.A) consoled him. Stayed by his how's to help his family after S.D got arrested. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!

80

 Feb 02, 2010 at 05:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #77  
OMG Says:

Let me try to clean up my reply the first go around the moderator didn’t see fit to print it.
Regardless your bloviating you failed to tackle my hypostasis, as to my personal life I never knew my grandfather or grandmother they did died in the camps, as to my parents they did die some time back and my wife is not a drunk or backward like yours might be, she is a professional with a masters in her chosen field, my son he is now in graduate school and my daughter she is a senior in high school and was excepted by not less then fifteen different colleges with eight offering full ride, oh one more my dog, she just sits around and has an easy life.
How about you do some introspection as to what you think is worse, a real practicing rabbi who offers for a fee to hide money from the bankruptcy court, or a Jew who is dishonest in his personal business dealings, I would say that the purported rabbi is by far a worst person, because he is a practicing rabbi and the entrapment issue will be adjudicated in court during the trial, I have faith in the juror system, to come to a proper and just verdict. As to this man’s deeds I don’t condone it, he will spend his time in jail.

"...was excepted by not less then fifteen different colleges with eight offering full ride"

Well, for your daughters sake, I hope she learned the difference between 'accepted' and 'excepted', because it looks like her dear old dad did not.

81

 Feb 02, 2010 at 05:41 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #78  
ich bin hadged Says:

OMG, you have severe issues. How I wish you identity would be revealed. Your wife (if someone was drunk enough to marry you), children, parents, grandparents, friends (yeh right!), would all disown you. You are an evil person. At best. Who in their right mind actually CONDONES the acts of this man?! I will have you know that he has ruined more lives than you can imagine. He stole, cheated, commited adultry, (fact! It will come out later), entrapped and single handidly ruined an entire community!! That's you "fellow jew"? That's the kind of person you want to call one of your own? What about the people who are now penniles? Or how about the people who's children now have a hard time getting married bec their fathers are now labeled "criminals" while they have only done something unethical? Do you care for them??? Do you?? Bec. If you did you'd be singing a differant tune. Nay, you'd be egging his house!!

Do you think by repeating your statements that would make it more so, I don’t think that you have the wherewithal, to understand what I am driving at.

82

 Feb 02, 2010 at 06:29 PM Rambam Says:

Some more "irrelevant" Torah/Jewish Law.
Chovel uMazzik Chapter Eight,

Halacha 1

When a person informs about property belonging to a colleague and causes it to be taken by a strong, lawless [Goy] person, he is required to reimburse the owner from the the finest property in his possession. If the person who informs about the property dies, the owner may collect his due from his heirs, as is the law concerning others who cause damage.

Whether the strong, lawless person is a gentile or a Jew, the person who informs about the property to be taken by him is considered a moseir and is required to reimburse the owner for everything taken by the lawless person. This applies even if the moseir did not actually hand the other person's property over to the lawless person, but merely informed him about it.

Halacha 8

A moseir who showed a colleague's property to a lawless man on his own initiative is not given the prerogative of taking an oath. This applies both to a severe oath, or a sh'vuat hesset. For such a person is deemed wicked; there is no disqualifying factor greater than this...

Halacha 9

It is forbidden to inform about a colleague to the gentiles and endanger his physical person or his property. This applies even when the person concerned is a wicked person who commits sins, and even if he causes one irritation and discomfort. Anyone who actually informs about a Jew and endangers his person or his property to the gentiles will not receive a portion in the world to come.
Halacha 10

It is permissible to kill a moseir in any country,even in the present age, when the court no longer metes out capital punishment.

It is permitted to kill him before he informs. When he says: "I will inform on so and so and endanger his person and/or his property" - even property of minimal value - he has made it permissible for others to kill him.

He should be warned and told: "Do not inform." If he says brazenly, "No. I will inform about him," it is a mitzvah to kill him, and whoever kills him receives merit.
Halacha 11

If the moseir carried out his threat and informed on a fellow Jew, it appears to me that it is forbidden to kill him, unless he has made it an established pattern to inform. In such an instance, he should be killed, lest he inform on others.

In the cities of the west, the common practice is to kill the mosrim who have made an established pattern of informing with regard to people's property, and to hand the mosrim over to gentiles to punish them, beat them and imprison them, according to their wicked ways.

Similarly, one who causes difficulty and irritation to the community may be handed over to the gentiles to be beaten, imprisoned and fined. It is, however, forbidden to hand over to gentilesa person for causing irritation to one individual.

It is forbidden to destroy property belonging to a moseir, although it is permitted to destroy his life. The reason is that his money is given to his heirs.

83

 Feb 02, 2010 at 06:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #70  
OMG Says:

Let me turn it around this lets assume, your killer and molester comes off the train in Auschwitz and the SS with the dogs chase him into the selection line and he is selected to the left and escorted to the gas chambers as the door closes and the gas starts rushing into the room, this killer and child molester and with his last breath he cries out with sincerity and regret for all he did “Shema Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad - Hear, O Israel: the Lord is our God, the Lord is One, this man comes in front of God what do you think would happen to him, this man who just died as a Jewish martyr and did teshuvah with his dying breath, if you think that this person would not be judged properly as a martyr you are wrong and don’t understand the Jewish concept of teshuvah.

I would really like Mr. OMG to explain to us the Jewish concept of Teshuva.

84

 Feb 02, 2010 at 06:45 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #80  
Anonymous Says:

"...was excepted by not less then fifteen different colleges with eight offering full ride"

Well, for your daughters sake, I hope she learned the difference between 'accepted' and 'excepted', because it looks like her dear old dad did not.

Thank you for proofreading my work

85

 Feb 02, 2010 at 06:51 PM Askupeh (part 1) Says:

Let me throw in my two cents. I just finished reading the article with all its comments and my stomach is turning nauseously. We need to first recognize this for what it is – a very emotional issue for all of us. If an ordinary article gets people riled up; how much more a story like this? It is also understandable that people would get upset and accuse anyone assumed not to be with us as a traitor, a monster, a wicked person. I am talking about the comments towards OMG.

I must disagree with those trying to demonize him. I have had the good fortune to engage with him in debate many times, and I must say that his position comes from sincerity. Right or wrong is not the issue, as we are all sometimes right and sometimes wrong, but we’ll never have any decent discussion here if we always demonize those that disagree with us. His position on this, even though I disagree with, is nevertheless borne out a sense of social fairness and a belief in the system, which he thinks that there are corrupt rabbis and good rabbis and the corrupt who commit a crime should go to jail and THAT, will teach the rest of us not to do the same.

86

 Feb 02, 2010 at 06:52 PM Askupeh (part 2) Says:

I disagree with this on many fronts. First, I am against the idea of entrapping someone to do a crime. I will go as far as calling it “criminal activity”. If the law allows this, then the law most be changed. I consider this a cruel and wicked law. I’ll try to explain.

I have told here many times that Barry Gray used to tell the story of a woman being approached by a man with “will you sleep with me for a million dollars” she answers “yes”. Then he asks her “how about for a thousand dollars”, she responds “what do you think I am, a whore?” He answers “that, we have already established; now we’re only negotiating the price!” Almost all people on planet earth can be entrapped, if the price is right. For some it’s money, for some it’s a woman, and for others it’s something else. I didn’t study “law”, but it doesn’t take an Alan Dershowitz to say that entrapment is wrong, and should be outlawed. The entrappers are no less evil then their prey, sometimes even worse.

87

 Feb 02, 2010 at 06:55 PM Askupeh (part 3) Says:

What I’m trying to say is that these rabbis entrapped here, were not evil people in any way shape or form. Yes, they did something wrong, (more then something), but “in context” this shouldn’t have been that great an issue. The reason why this turned into a scandal is only because the scheme also involved the entrapment of New Jersey’s politicians, and more importantly because the entrapper Dwek was Mishelonu (one of ours, so we thought). I’m not minimizing the gravity of any crime, only focusing on the issue as a whole.

There is no question in my mind that Dwek is a Moser, and if he was on the way to inform someone then maybe Al Pi Halochah he would he be allowed to perish. I am NOT a rabbi and am not Paskening, and no responsible Rabbi would be Matir to put him away in this country of ours. Now, after the fact, there is absolutely no Heter to put him away. I do agree with OMG that he can still do Teshuvah. It would be extremely difficult for him to beg forgiveness from those he hurt, but still he can (and maybe will one day) do Teshuvah.

I know that some will be upset with me, but I find it my Tafkid to be honest here, regardless where the chips might fall.

Got to go now.

88

 Feb 02, 2010 at 07:09 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #82  
Rambam Says:

Some more "irrelevant" Torah/Jewish Law.
Chovel uMazzik Chapter Eight,

Halacha 1

When a person informs about property belonging to a colleague and causes it to be taken by a strong, lawless [Goy] person, he is required to reimburse the owner from the the finest property in his possession. If the person who informs about the property dies, the owner may collect his due from his heirs, as is the law concerning others who cause damage.

Whether the strong, lawless person is a gentile or a Jew, the person who informs about the property to be taken by him is considered a moseir and is required to reimburse the owner for everything taken by the lawless person. This applies even if the moseir did not actually hand the other person's property over to the lawless person, but merely informed him about it.

Halacha 8

A moseir who showed a colleague's property to a lawless man on his own initiative is not given the prerogative of taking an oath. This applies both to a severe oath, or a sh'vuat hesset. For such a person is deemed wicked; there is no disqualifying factor greater than this...

Halacha 9

It is forbidden to inform about a colleague to the gentiles and endanger his physical person or his property. This applies even when the person concerned is a wicked person who commits sins, and even if he causes one irritation and discomfort. Anyone who actually informs about a Jew and endangers his person or his property to the gentiles will not receive a portion in the world to come.
Halacha 10

It is permissible to kill a moseir in any country,even in the present age, when the court no longer metes out capital punishment.

It is permitted to kill him before he informs. When he says: "I will inform on so and so and endanger his person and/or his property" - even property of minimal value - he has made it permissible for others to kill him.

He should be warned and told: "Do not inform." If he says brazenly, "No. I will inform about him," it is a mitzvah to kill him, and whoever kills him receives merit.
Halacha 11

If the moseir carried out his threat and informed on a fellow Jew, it appears to me that it is forbidden to kill him, unless he has made it an established pattern to inform. In such an instance, he should be killed, lest he inform on others.

In the cities of the west, the common practice is to kill the mosrim who have made an established pattern of informing with regard to people's property, and to hand the mosrim over to gentiles to punish them, beat them and imprison them, according to their wicked ways.

Similarly, one who causes difficulty and irritation to the community may be handed over to the gentiles to be beaten, imprisoned and fined. It is, however, forbidden to hand over to gentilesa person for causing irritation to one individual.

It is forbidden to destroy property belonging to a moseir, although it is permitted to destroy his life. The reason is that his money is given to his heirs.

As I said previously that the laws of moseir is irrelevant in our country, so regardless how many pages you save and paste, it is still irrelevant, in our time and place, but even the citation you cite is totally irrelevant to the facts at hand. You cite
“Halacha 1
When a person informs about property belonging to a colleague and causes it to be taken by a strong, lawless [Goy] person, he is required to reimburse the owner from the the finest property in his possession. If the person who informs about the property dies, the owner may collect his due from his heirs, as is the law concerning others who cause damage.”
First of all if someone steals from the government that doesn’t, make it his money so technically he didn’t cause for the government to take away their money, and furthermore, are you claiming that our government laws are lawless [Goy] person, and therefore we are allowed to still from every goy, I know you’re not claiming that You cite “Halacha 8
A moseir who showed a colleague's property to a lawless man on his own initiative is not given the prerogative of taking an oath. This applies both to a severe oath, or a sh'vuat hesset. For such a person is deemed wicked; there is no disqualifying factor greater than this...”Again our government is not lawless

You cite Halacha 9
As I said a thief doesn’t own the property he stole.
You cite Halacha 10, 11,
In today’s age it is totally irrelevant

89

 Feb 02, 2010 at 07:43 PM Askupeh (part 4) Says:

I personally don’t believe in ANY justice system on planet earth created by man and executed by man. The one we have here is the best we have, so I’ll give it lip service; but the reality is that sometimes justice is meted out and sometimes not, sometimes too little and sometimes too much. It is a Rachmoness on the gentile who has no one to stick up for him/her and gets the raw end of the stick.

My opinion is that a system which allowed (what I believe is) the killing of Irv Rubin, Earl Krugel and Meir Kahane is not a system I can have faith in. A system where money can buy your innocence as in the OJ Simpson trial is a system I cannot have faith in. I will continue to support in general our justice system because without it anarchy will rein; but that still doesn’t make me have faith in it. I would say the same regarding Israel’s criminal system and every Western justice system; that true justice can only be found by G-d, the real Dayon Ho’emes.

Again I’m not minimizing crime, only pointing out where I come from when it comes to entrapping rabbis. It was wrong, wrong, wrong.

90

 Feb 02, 2010 at 09:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
Jeff Says:

Chevra, this is what happens when you don't learn one 'Yiddish vort' in cheder. You first believe that a minhag (yarmulka) is a mitzvah d'oireisah, then you think that a loy s'essah (stealing) is just a minhag.

He believes in his KIPA like he believes in TARYAG MITZVOT. It is unbelievable that his wife is so naive that she is staying with him. Those children have no chance surviving in the Jewish community. I wander how they are getting by wherever they are? They will to become informers like their father to survive,

91

 Feb 02, 2010 at 09:26 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #79  
ich bin hadged Says:

Omg, wow are you dumber then I thought!! Let's start with this, first thing is I believe you are a federal agent. "In our court of law" yeh that's something a fed would say. I happen to be a tremendous patriot myself! So don't you go and lecture! When you've faought in wars for this great country then you can preach! Otherwise keep a lid on it! Secondly, you stated something that shows you have no idea as to the facts. Soloman dwek was from the great SYRIAN community of deal, granted a horrific product, he was not from the chasidic community. So when you say " your rabbis speaking yiddish" it shows you haven't got a clue what is going on here. Next, how come they didn't feed him? Take him in?? BEC HE HAD JUST STOLE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. From the very peoples families he was asking for help! And you fool, people did offer him help. Cash? Food? Homes? This isn't haiti! The man owned 300 properties! He was still driving a lexus. Still eating out in fancy resturants! The only help he wanted, was this kind of help. People felt obliged bec he was a rabbis son and a former phalanthrapist! And FYI- one of the people he helped put in prison (C.A) consoled him. Stayed by his how's to help his family after S.D got arrested. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!!

First of all you are totally wrong, people who follow my writing know that I did serve in the Army you are right I did not serve in war, but that was because I was lucky that I didn’t serve in Vietnam only because my MOS was 54 E, so I served in a Nuclear Persian missile unit in Germany, but you claim that you are a great patriot on someone else account, so next time when you assail someone you don’t know, think about it twice. And you the patriot don’t want to recognize our courts, as *our* but I do, and so are tens of thousands of religious Jews in NY and other cities. Furthermore, I would not question anybodies patriotism even if they didn’t serve, but I would challenge anybodies patriotism that doesn’t recognize the court system as ours, and yes I will challenge you.

In regard your assertion that I wrote

“your rabbis speaking yiddish" it shows you haven't got a clue what is going on here. Next, how come they didn't feed him? Take him in?? BEC HE HAD JUST STOLE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS”

I never wrote any of that you are mixing together kasha and borscht, get your fact right.

92

 Feb 02, 2010 at 11:22 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #85  
Askupeh (part 1) Says:

Let me throw in my two cents. I just finished reading the article with all its comments and my stomach is turning nauseously. We need to first recognize this for what it is – a very emotional issue for all of us. If an ordinary article gets people riled up; how much more a story like this? It is also understandable that people would get upset and accuse anyone assumed not to be with us as a traitor, a monster, a wicked person. I am talking about the comments towards OMG.

I must disagree with those trying to demonize him. I have had the good fortune to engage with him in debate many times, and I must say that his position comes from sincerity. Right or wrong is not the issue, as we are all sometimes right and sometimes wrong, but we’ll never have any decent discussion here if we always demonize those that disagree with us. His position on this, even though I disagree with, is nevertheless borne out a sense of social fairness and a belief in the system, which he thinks that there are corrupt rabbis and good rabbis and the corrupt who commit a crime should go to jail and THAT, will teach the rest of us not to do the same.

Part # 1
As usual Askupeh, I appreciate your understanding what I am driving at, and trying to shine a bright light on the real issue at hand, the issue is not if someone commits a crime and he is apprehended and convicted, they should do the time. In this case we have three different issues, one- is Dwek’s actions Vis-à-vis other people who he defrauded, eventually he will pay the price, he will be incarcerated albeit he might get a lower sentence for cooperating with the government, but he will pay the piper. Two- his action caused a chillul Hashem, I would agree that when he would be judged by God he will need to answer for his sins, but that is in front of God not me. Three- going undercover to work for the government, which I will circle back in a few. So based on the facts lets see were we could agree. I would concede to the following items.
1. Dwek is a crook and he belongs in jail.
2. Any crime against God he has the ability to do Teshuva.

Now let me circle back to the undercover work he did for the government, all to save his behind, let’s differentiate between the corrupt politicians and the Rabbis. I hope we don’t have any disagreements with that any politicians who are corrupt should be in jail for a long time because the system itself is on trial and if we cannot clean up the system, and then whole system will fall apart because some crooked politicians.

93

 Feb 02, 2010 at 11:27 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #85  
Askupeh (part 1) Says:

Let me throw in my two cents. I just finished reading the article with all its comments and my stomach is turning nauseously. We need to first recognize this for what it is – a very emotional issue for all of us. If an ordinary article gets people riled up; how much more a story like this? It is also understandable that people would get upset and accuse anyone assumed not to be with us as a traitor, a monster, a wicked person. I am talking about the comments towards OMG.

I must disagree with those trying to demonize him. I have had the good fortune to engage with him in debate many times, and I must say that his position comes from sincerity. Right or wrong is not the issue, as we are all sometimes right and sometimes wrong, but we’ll never have any decent discussion here if we always demonize those that disagree with us. His position on this, even though I disagree with, is nevertheless borne out a sense of social fairness and a belief in the system, which he thinks that there are corrupt rabbis and good rabbis and the corrupt who commit a crime should go to jail and THAT, will teach the rest of us not to do the same.

Part # 2
Now here we get to the real issue at hand, Dwek found himself in a pickle he was arrested for fraud and as the fed tighten the noose around his neck he decided to sell his soul to the fed’s. The first question comes to my mind how nanny of us would say no to the Fed’s, when they know that they could be incarcerated for a long time. I am not sure that many would be willing to take the long term jail sentence, just to not turn in some other crook. Understand Dwek is a crook and he looks at all these other rabbis as crooks too, so in his mind he justifies his actions with, what is the big deal, if I could shave of ten or more years of my sentence.
Now lets tackle the entrapment argument, I don’t see any merit in this argument because if it is truly an entrapment the defense could use this argument and if the jury believes the defense they must find him not guilty, but why I don’t believe that it was entrapment because it is known that this type of shenanigans goes on in the Orthodox community, but I am willing to wait for trial and make up my mind after the end of the trial.

94

 Feb 02, 2010 at 11:31 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #89  
Askupeh (part 4) Says:

I personally don’t believe in ANY justice system on planet earth created by man and executed by man. The one we have here is the best we have, so I’ll give it lip service; but the reality is that sometimes justice is meted out and sometimes not, sometimes too little and sometimes too much. It is a Rachmoness on the gentile who has no one to stick up for him/her and gets the raw end of the stick.

My opinion is that a system which allowed (what I believe is) the killing of Irv Rubin, Earl Krugel and Meir Kahane is not a system I can have faith in. A system where money can buy your innocence as in the OJ Simpson trial is a system I cannot have faith in. I will continue to support in general our justice system because without it anarchy will rein; but that still doesn’t make me have faith in it. I would say the same regarding Israel’s criminal system and every Western justice system; that true justice can only be found by G-d, the real Dayon Ho’emes.

Again I’m not minimizing crime, only pointing out where I come from when it comes to entrapping rabbis. It was wrong, wrong, wrong.

Part # 3
Now let me tie it all together, I never ever said that I think that these rabbis are guilty I don’t have any idea if the charges are true or not, for the time being I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt and in particular I hope and pray that the rabbi who is in his eighties in innocent. But I was eviscerated because I objected to cursing another Jew regardless what he did, and from my own understanding that during the holocaust there were numerous none religious and religious Jews who worked for the same common goal to save Jews and I will under no circumstance curse another Jew, I would have killed myself before I would harm another person let alone an other Jew. The issue here is not about Dwek or the Rabbis, the issue is how someone dares to curse another Jew, all the other issues is secondary for the time being.
End

95

 Feb 03, 2010 at 07:29 AM antimesira Says:

Reply to #94  
OMG Says:

Part # 3
Now let me tie it all together, I never ever said that I think that these rabbis are guilty I don’t have any idea if the charges are true or not, for the time being I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt and in particular I hope and pray that the rabbi who is in his eighties in innocent. But I was eviscerated because I objected to cursing another Jew regardless what he did, and from my own understanding that during the holocaust there were numerous none religious and religious Jews who worked for the same common goal to save Jews and I will under no circumstance curse another Jew, I would have killed myself before I would harm another person let alone an other Jew. The issue here is not about Dwek or the Rabbis, the issue is how someone dares to curse another Jew, all the other issues is secondary for the time being.
End

"Those who are kind to the cruel will end up being cruel to the kind"

All your doing now is trying to polish up. You said or wrote what you wrote, people didn't like it, like a politician your changing around what your true opinion is (instead of saying straight out you were wrong).

96

 Feb 03, 2010 at 07:31 AM ich bin hadged Says:

Omg, tell me if I misquoted this "the laws of moser are irrelavent in this country". You are not only an evil person rather much more you are a cofer!! How can you say these things?? If in fact you are jewish repent now! Bec what you have said is against all that we hold dear!
And yes I am a patriot! Yes I love my country! BUT I AM A JEW FIRST AND AN AMERICAN SECOND! That's why I don't say "our" courts. They aren't our courts. We don't speak this way. We say the american courts. Bec throughout the many bills,laws and treaties that this country has many are not in accordance with my religious beliefs!
Prediction #2: the prosucution will never bring up his families involvement in this. It was part of the plea deal.

97

 Feb 03, 2010 at 07:33 AM antimesira Says:

Reply to #94  
OMG Says:

Part # 3
Now let me tie it all together, I never ever said that I think that these rabbis are guilty I don’t have any idea if the charges are true or not, for the time being I am willing to give them the benefit of doubt and in particular I hope and pray that the rabbi who is in his eighties in innocent. But I was eviscerated because I objected to cursing another Jew regardless what he did, and from my own understanding that during the holocaust there were numerous none religious and religious Jews who worked for the same common goal to save Jews and I will under no circumstance curse another Jew, I would have killed myself before I would harm another person let alone an other Jew. The issue here is not about Dwek or the Rabbis, the issue is how someone dares to curse another Jew, all the other issues is secondary for the time being.
End

By the way, yes corruption must be destroyed everywhere. But thats not what people are arguing about. The discussion here is Dwek the mosser.

Somebody tried to Justify his Mesiras and other got upset, then that justifier started to retreat but wont admit he was wrong.

100

 Feb 03, 2010 at 08:10 AM ic bin hadged Says:

Reply to #81  
OMG Says:

Do you think by repeating your statements that would make it more so, I don’t think that you have the wherewithal, to understand what I am driving at.

Omg, it is clear you are an educated person. So in order to retain your credibility please answer the following questions.

1) Do you agree soloman Dweck is an evil human being?
2)Cooperating with the govt. Against your fellow jew is wrong?
3) Did you know that the feds asked him for 3 people as part of the plea deal and he gave them 44??
4) Did you know that he took advantage of an unstable and mentally disabled man in order to use his name on documents?

5) Did you know his uncle whom nobody will deny is a wonderful, wonderful person. Had 60 million dollars stolen by his own nephew?

How can you as a decent human being, as simply a person even defend his position?
Loving your fellow jew is all good and well. However there are certain times when someone does such an atrocity that it renders him no longer a jew. This is one of those times! I know families that were effected and I can assure you if you saw these people, knew their plight, understood their grief. You would not say this. I have changed my tone toward you bec. I have realized something. You aren't a bad person you are simply ill informed.

101

 Feb 03, 2010 at 12:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #91  
OMG Says:

First of all you are totally wrong, people who follow my writing know that I did serve in the Army you are right I did not serve in war, but that was because I was lucky that I didn’t serve in Vietnam only because my MOS was 54 E, so I served in a Nuclear Persian missile unit in Germany, but you claim that you are a great patriot on someone else account, so next time when you assail someone you don’t know, think about it twice. And you the patriot don’t want to recognize our courts, as *our* but I do, and so are tens of thousands of religious Jews in NY and other cities. Furthermore, I would not question anybodies patriotism even if they didn’t serve, but I would challenge anybodies patriotism that doesn’t recognize the court system as ours, and yes I will challenge you.

In regard your assertion that I wrote

“your rabbis speaking yiddish" it shows you haven't got a clue what is going on here. Next, how come they didn't feed him? Take him in?? BEC HE HAD JUST STOLE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS”

I never wrote any of that you are mixing together kasha and borscht, get your fact right.

“your rabbis speaking yiddish" it shows you haven't got a clue what is going on here. Next, how come they didn't feed him? Take him in?? BEC HE HAD JUST STOLE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS”

That was MY comment, not the one you replied to. You are mixing up mine and OMG's comments together, though they have nothing to do with each other. First of all, I do not speak Yiddish, but, I read the transcripts of your Rabbis speaking with Dweck, and they used a 'sacred' yiddish word as the code word for money. Also, they wouldnt hand him cash or accept him into their homes because of his crimes, BUT THEY WOULD GO INTO BUSINESS WITH HIM? What kind of an argument is that. Now you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth, and pretty much summed up their guilt in one sentance, so, thank you for that.

102

 Feb 03, 2010 at 12:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #100  
ic bin hadged Says:

Omg, it is clear you are an educated person. So in order to retain your credibility please answer the following questions.

1) Do you agree soloman Dweck is an evil human being?
2)Cooperating with the govt. Against your fellow jew is wrong?
3) Did you know that the feds asked him for 3 people as part of the plea deal and he gave them 44??
4) Did you know that he took advantage of an unstable and mentally disabled man in order to use his name on documents?

5) Did you know his uncle whom nobody will deny is a wonderful, wonderful person. Had 60 million dollars stolen by his own nephew?

How can you as a decent human being, as simply a person even defend his position?
Loving your fellow jew is all good and well. However there are certain times when someone does such an atrocity that it renders him no longer a jew. This is one of those times! I know families that were effected and I can assure you if you saw these people, knew their plight, understood their grief. You would not say this. I have changed my tone toward you bec. I have realized something. You aren't a bad person you are simply ill informed.

These were all federal crimes, so your statement "4) Did you know that he took advantage of an unstable and mentally disabled man in order to use his name on documents?" is ludacris b/c a mentally disabled person should not be in a place of power! Duh!

103

 Feb 03, 2010 at 01:30 PM Askupeh (part 1) Says:

OMG, on the first issue of cursing, it is clear that #100 is speaking from pain as one personally affected by Dwek. If I would’ve been affected, I probably would’ve cursed him too. I can’t remember ever cursing another Jew, and because I personally was not affected, similar to OMG, I would never think of cursing him. The Gemorah says that “Ein Odom Nitfas Al Tzaaroi”, we can’t hold it against a person who is speaking from pain; but acting out of pain as Dwek did is entirely a different matter, and he went even ten steps further then understandable. I personally know a person who sat in jail so that another Jew shouldn’t, and hold him for a Tzaddik, and I hope and pray that I would do the same if ever found in such a situation. If I should fail the test, then I would rather G-d take me, then rat on a fellow Jew. It is inconceivable to me to do such a thing. Nevertheless those who can’t withstand the test like Dwek, could be forgiven for ratting on a co-defrauder; but to go and entrap people just like that, is unforgivable, and to my understanding had a Din Roidef and Moiser.

104

 Feb 03, 2010 at 01:40 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #97  
antimesira Says:

By the way, yes corruption must be destroyed everywhere. But thats not what people are arguing about. The discussion here is Dwek the mosser.

Somebody tried to Justify his Mesiras and other got upset, then that justifier started to retreat but wont admit he was wrong.

Antimesira, as I said before the laws of mesira is not relevant in today’s age; please explain to us what part of it you don’t understand, as I wrote time and again, that there are numerous rabbinical views that mesira is not relevant when the government is a benevolent and extends equal rights to all its citizens, so you are the one who is repeating mesira – mesira which is not relevant to our great country, and when I say “great” I am reflecting on the system which we aspire to judge everybody equal, not the land itself, as of opposed to “our Jewish land” is not the laws of the land but the ground itself, and yes with all its flaws it is so far the best system devised by man, not God.
In regards you insinuating that I am backpedalling and polishing up my point, I call it through analysis and retrospection, even while debating your self-analyses should never stop and any logical position should consistently shift with the ebb and flow of the debate, a human should always be open to different views if it is logical. That said, I didn’t change my initial position in post # 17 that public corruption is bad and if any rabbi is convicted of laundering monies he should be spending time in prison, but that position doesn’t negate my hope and prayer that I really hope that the rabbis are NOT guilty and for the time being I give them the benefit of doubt. As to Dwek I did say that he is a criminal and at least he is currently doing the right ting that he just admitted on the stand to his devious ways, Finally my challenge to you still stands, explain to us why the laws of mesira is relevant to our American justices system and give us some contemporary citations.

105

 Feb 03, 2010 at 01:30 PM Askupeh (part 2) Says:

Regardless how the courts consider entrapment, it is forbidden by Halachah under “Velifnei Iveir” and other Aveirois. His act of entrapping that old Rabbi and taking advantage and playing on his good heart, to me shows how deep this Dwek had sunk. I agree with OMG that a Jew he remains and we don’t have the power to un-Jew him. I see him as someone who had sunken in Mem Tes Shaarei Tumeh, but a Jew he still remains.

I do agree with you on:

1. Dwek is a crook and he belongs in jail.
2. Any crime against G-d and even man, he has the ability to do Teshuva.
3. Dwek caused a Chilul Hashem. But the Chilul Hashem he made, pales in comparison to the Chilul Hashem he caused by entrapping those rabbis.

106

 Feb 03, 2010 at 01:33 PM Askupeh (part 3) Says:

I would disagree with the assertion that because Dwek is a crook he also looked at all those rabbis as crooks too. No, he would never have considered those he entrapped crooks; and neither would you and me. That he ANYWAYS went and entrapped them; is what sets him apart of the rest, and that is the reason for the scorn and hatred he encountered here. This old rabbi (who I know something about) is the last person that would do a crime, and to so cold bloodedly ensnare him like that, makes my blood boil too.

So that was not the reason that he justified his actions. The reason is much simpler; that he couldn’t care less about another human being if it can lessen even a drop of his pain. I think we would call him selfish, a hedonist and an egoist. In addition he must have known what a Chilul Hashem would come out of this, and still THAT too didn’t stop him; for that I have no words to describe him, because it says that when he is in trouble, even G-d and his people are dispensable; he would sell us all.

107

 Feb 03, 2010 at 03:42 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #104  
OMG Says:

Antimesira, as I said before the laws of mesira is not relevant in today’s age; please explain to us what part of it you don’t understand, as I wrote time and again, that there are numerous rabbinical views that mesira is not relevant when the government is a benevolent and extends equal rights to all its citizens, so you are the one who is repeating mesira – mesira which is not relevant to our great country, and when I say “great” I am reflecting on the system which we aspire to judge everybody equal, not the land itself, as of opposed to “our Jewish land” is not the laws of the land but the ground itself, and yes with all its flaws it is so far the best system devised by man, not God.
In regards you insinuating that I am backpedalling and polishing up my point, I call it through analysis and retrospection, even while debating your self-analyses should never stop and any logical position should consistently shift with the ebb and flow of the debate, a human should always be open to different views if it is logical. That said, I didn’t change my initial position in post # 17 that public corruption is bad and if any rabbi is convicted of laundering monies he should be spending time in prison, but that position doesn’t negate my hope and prayer that I really hope that the rabbis are NOT guilty and for the time being I give them the benefit of doubt. As to Dwek I did say that he is a criminal and at least he is currently doing the right ting that he just admitted on the stand to his devious ways, Finally my challenge to you still stands, explain to us why the laws of mesira is relevant to our American justices system and give us some contemporary citations.

It wasn’t addressed to me, but nevertheless I’ll try to explore this. I have never ever heard any rabbi state that the Halochess against Mesira doesn’t apply anymore. What I did hear was that some rabbonim have permitted to report molestation, and it wouldn’t be Mesirah because the Rabbonim can’t stop molestation but the courts can. But even this isn’t so simple, as some would disagree with this hypothesis that the courts are the answer; but this is not our discussion here. It would also not be Mesira if Beth Din gives a Heter when the accused won’t show up or won’t abide by its ruling. That’s the only scenarios where it would be permitted; otherwise this Halacha is etched in stone. It’s true, that even in Talmudic times and throughout Jewish history the rulers sometimes forced the Jews to be Mosrim, but that was with a sword over their head, like in “Napoleon’s Sanhedrin”; but now that we live in a Malchus Shel Chesed, I see no Heter to go Maser someone. It’s the job of the government to catch anyone with a crime, but we cannot be asked to help them catch us. I think that in America we don’t encourage any Pavlik Morozovs to denounce their brethren to the authorities.

108

 Feb 03, 2010 at 05:35 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #101  
Anonymous Says:

“your rabbis speaking yiddish" it shows you haven't got a clue what is going on here. Next, how come they didn't feed him? Take him in?? BEC HE HAD JUST STOLE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS”

That was MY comment, not the one you replied to. You are mixing up mine and OMG's comments together, though they have nothing to do with each other. First of all, I do not speak Yiddish, but, I read the transcripts of your Rabbis speaking with Dweck, and they used a 'sacred' yiddish word as the code word for money. Also, they wouldnt hand him cash or accept him into their homes because of his crimes, BUT THEY WOULD GO INTO BUSINESS WITH HIM? What kind of an argument is that. Now you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth, and pretty much summed up their guilt in one sentance, so, thank you for that.

Part # 1
ich bin hadged;
I will try to reply to all the writings you penned today, before I start let me point out to you that in post # 96 you labeled me “evil” and “cofer [kufer]” all because I took exception to you theological interpretation in laws on mesira, and if you apologize I will except it, as I understand that in the heat of the moment people have sometimes a tendency to write out of anger.

Your view that you are a patriot but as you point out with exceptions to your beliefs, I disagree with your assessment that there is a contradiction when someone is a patriot and being a Jew, our country is based on the belief on individual rights to belief in what they want, and no there are no laws on books which you could show to me as in contrary to Jewish law, that you could put you in jeopardy if you don’t transgress against your religious views, there is not one law on the books which would force you to make a religious, either or decision, and hiding behind the cloak of religion is noting more them a blatant attempt to justify illegalities in your community, finally let me put an end to your assertion that you are a Jew first and then a patriot, sounding like the Neo Nazis or the Aryan Nation who also hide under the cloak of religion that they are patriots but theologically Jews and African Americans are inferior to white Anglo, therefore we should not grant civil rights to Jews and Blacks or Latino, and I am here arguing with you that we don’t need any anti-smites to claim that we are not adherent to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights no there are no contradiction.

109

 Feb 03, 2010 at 05:36 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #100  
ic bin hadged Says:

Omg, it is clear you are an educated person. So in order to retain your credibility please answer the following questions.

1) Do you agree soloman Dweck is an evil human being?
2)Cooperating with the govt. Against your fellow jew is wrong?
3) Did you know that the feds asked him for 3 people as part of the plea deal and he gave them 44??
4) Did you know that he took advantage of an unstable and mentally disabled man in order to use his name on documents?

5) Did you know his uncle whom nobody will deny is a wonderful, wonderful person. Had 60 million dollars stolen by his own nephew?

How can you as a decent human being, as simply a person even defend his position?
Loving your fellow jew is all good and well. However there are certain times when someone does such an atrocity that it renders him no longer a jew. This is one of those times! I know families that were effected and I can assure you if you saw these people, knew their plight, understood their grief. You would not say this. I have changed my tone toward you bec. I have realized something. You aren't a bad person you are simply ill informed.

Part # 2
In post # 100 you changed your tune, now you call me educated but in post # 79 you wrote “Omg, wow are you dumber then I thought” and in post # 78 you wrote that “OMG, you have severe issues” and basically you called my wife a drunk, without knowing who I am, and what did my wife do to you, she never posted anything and she couldn’t care less what you write about anyway, why would you change your colors like a Chameleon?
In regard you challenged me to answer a few questions, so I will try to the best of my ability, so the readers could see that I am not evasive at all.

1) Do you agree soloman Dweck is an evil human being?
Answer; it depends on the definition of evil, if you use the word evil as an adjective, then yes without a question because his action is morally wrong and bad that is the definition evil, but if you refer to evil as an Idiom i.e. the evil one, the devil; Satan. I would say absolutely no, you decide were you stand I know were I am.

2) Cooperating with the govt. Against your fellow jew is wrong?
Answer; because I believe that our government is indeed a benevolent government, therefore, the laws of mesira is not relevant to this discussion, I would say it is a personal decision but from my personal prospective I wouldn’t have to make that decision because I am not a criminal to begin with, but I could understand that there will be people who would be willing to sit in jail and not rat on someone, some might do it because Halacha code and some might do because the Cosa Nostra code of honor. you decide were you stand I know were I am.

110

 Feb 03, 2010 at 05:37 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #100  
ic bin hadged Says:

Omg, it is clear you are an educated person. So in order to retain your credibility please answer the following questions.

1) Do you agree soloman Dweck is an evil human being?
2)Cooperating with the govt. Against your fellow jew is wrong?
3) Did you know that the feds asked him for 3 people as part of the plea deal and he gave them 44??
4) Did you know that he took advantage of an unstable and mentally disabled man in order to use his name on documents?

5) Did you know his uncle whom nobody will deny is a wonderful, wonderful person. Had 60 million dollars stolen by his own nephew?

How can you as a decent human being, as simply a person even defend his position?
Loving your fellow jew is all good and well. However there are certain times when someone does such an atrocity that it renders him no longer a jew. This is one of those times! I know families that were effected and I can assure you if you saw these people, knew their plight, understood their grief. You would not say this. I have changed my tone toward you bec. I have realized something. You aren't a bad person you are simply ill informed.

Part # 3
3) Did you know that the feds asked him for 3 people as part of the plea deal and he gave them 44??
Answer; no I didn’t, but I don’t see why that would make any difference in what I think he is.

4) Did you know that he took advantage of an unstable and mentally disabled man in order to use his name on documents?
Answer; yes I know it but who said that he is a saint?

5) Did you know his uncle whom nobody will deny is a wonderful, wonderful person. Had 60 million dollars stolen by his own nephew?
Answer; yes but what has a fraud to do with my reply to Susie in post # 54, he is still a Jew like it or not, it is not you who makes that decision, as I said before Hitler Y.SY did make such decisions, we don’t need fellow jews to make the same type of decisions.

Finally, let me try to explain myself, I am not saying that Dwek is an angel contrary he is a one man criminal machine, but if it is true that some rabbis were involved with illegalities, even if they personally don’t befit they are still crooks and as much it hurts to see rabbis walking in prison shackles, we cannot look away and find some excuse, leaders like politicians or clergy are held to a higher standard, we expect them to lead by example and society has an implicit contract with them, that they will lead by example, so yes I hope and pray that somehow the rabbis should be found not guilty but if it comes to pass that they are found guilty, they need to understand that they might spend time in jail.
The last question I have from you, would you join me and use this learning moment to denounce any rabbi who engages in legality regardless were the money is spend, if you don’t you missed a good teaching moment, and in due time you will see other rabbis walking down the perp walk with shackles.

111

 Feb 03, 2010 at 08:22 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #107  
Askupeh Says:

It wasn’t addressed to me, but nevertheless I’ll try to explore this. I have never ever heard any rabbi state that the Halochess against Mesira doesn’t apply anymore. What I did hear was that some rabbonim have permitted to report molestation, and it wouldn’t be Mesirah because the Rabbonim can’t stop molestation but the courts can. But even this isn’t so simple, as some would disagree with this hypothesis that the courts are the answer; but this is not our discussion here. It would also not be Mesira if Beth Din gives a Heter when the accused won’t show up or won’t abide by its ruling. That’s the only scenarios where it would be permitted; otherwise this Halacha is etched in stone. It’s true, that even in Talmudic times and throughout Jewish history the rulers sometimes forced the Jews to be Mosrim, but that was with a sword over their head, like in “Napoleon’s Sanhedrin”; but now that we live in a Malchus Shel Chesed, I see no Heter to go Maser someone. It’s the job of the government to catch anyone with a crime, but we cannot be asked to help them catch us. I think that in America we don’t encourage any Pavlik Morozovs to denounce their brethren to the authorities.

Part # 1
Askupeh;
Let’s first dispenses with the mesira issue, I just got off the phone with my Rabbi and he is Orthodox, he agreed with my view that the only reason why mesira was forbidden because years ago the king could on a whim steal somebody’s money or take a life without cause but as I said in our court system were the government just cannot without cause confiscate your belongings you are not bound by the mesira law, but my Rabbi was very clear, that if the mesira is involved with assets that could be legally confiscated as in proceeds of drug money, we must be careful because the police could and would confiscate the proceeds without any due process, finally I asked him about the specifics in our story, he replied that first I need to distinguish and ascertain did the government knew about any of the alleged illegalities without the Dwek information, and if they didn’t know even if he didn’t commit mesira per se, he committed numerous other sins. After my discussion I did some introspection, and I can to this conclusion, that logic would tell me that the government couldn’t have known each and everyone of the forty four people illegalities and having enough cause to impanel a grand jury and get a indictment, it is logical to assume that they didn’t know or didn’t have the little evidence that is needed to indict any of them, which we all know is a very low threshold. Therefore I must conclude that Dwek took on himself to get as many people entangled into his web. That said, the damage was already done, the questions should be how the Orthodox community would use this learning moment,

112

 Feb 03, 2010 at 08:23 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #107  
Askupeh Says:

It wasn’t addressed to me, but nevertheless I’ll try to explore this. I have never ever heard any rabbi state that the Halochess against Mesira doesn’t apply anymore. What I did hear was that some rabbonim have permitted to report molestation, and it wouldn’t be Mesirah because the Rabbonim can’t stop molestation but the courts can. But even this isn’t so simple, as some would disagree with this hypothesis that the courts are the answer; but this is not our discussion here. It would also not be Mesira if Beth Din gives a Heter when the accused won’t show up or won’t abide by its ruling. That’s the only scenarios where it would be permitted; otherwise this Halacha is etched in stone. It’s true, that even in Talmudic times and throughout Jewish history the rulers sometimes forced the Jews to be Mosrim, but that was with a sword over their head, like in “Napoleon’s Sanhedrin”; but now that we live in a Malchus Shel Chesed, I see no Heter to go Maser someone. It’s the job of the government to catch anyone with a crime, but we cannot be asked to help them catch us. I think that in America we don’t encourage any Pavlik Morozovs to denounce their brethren to the authorities.

Part # 2
In my younger days I did lots of thinking about the holocaust, it took me years trying to understand how and why a Jew would turn into a kapo, not everyone was a sadistic being some were even religious Jews, like my mother told me that she was saved by a student in the yeshiva that her father was involved, so here we are talking about a yeshiva student who was a kapo at Auschwitz, one hand he put his life on the line and pulled my mother literally from the gas chamber and hid her under the death bodies, and smuggled her back into the working camp and on the other hand not telling any of the others what is waiting for them, I always wondered how would have been the outcome if a thousand naked jews descend on the less then 20 guards who guarded the thousand or more Jews who walked quietly to the gas chambers, could have theses kapo’s make a small differences. Well the only answer I come up with, is that the Kapo had to somehow justify in their mind that they are doing the right thing, as they know that each one will eventually be gassed, so why tell them, let them die in dignity, or could it be I know I am going to die and everyone is going to die so who am I to say anything it wouldn’t make a difference, the same could be said in this case that Dwek is justifying because he believes that as he will spend a lot of time in jail so should others who committed crime, otherwise he is just sociopath defined by the following signs.

113

 Feb 03, 2010 at 08:25 PM OMG Says:

Reply to #107  
Askupeh Says:

It wasn’t addressed to me, but nevertheless I’ll try to explore this. I have never ever heard any rabbi state that the Halochess against Mesira doesn’t apply anymore. What I did hear was that some rabbonim have permitted to report molestation, and it wouldn’t be Mesirah because the Rabbonim can’t stop molestation but the courts can. But even this isn’t so simple, as some would disagree with this hypothesis that the courts are the answer; but this is not our discussion here. It would also not be Mesira if Beth Din gives a Heter when the accused won’t show up or won’t abide by its ruling. That’s the only scenarios where it would be permitted; otherwise this Halacha is etched in stone. It’s true, that even in Talmudic times and throughout Jewish history the rulers sometimes forced the Jews to be Mosrim, but that was with a sword over their head, like in “Napoleon’s Sanhedrin”; but now that we live in a Malchus Shel Chesed, I see no Heter to go Maser someone. It’s the job of the government to catch anyone with a crime, but we cannot be asked to help them catch us. I think that in America we don’t encourage any Pavlik Morozovs to denounce their brethren to the authorities.

Part # 3
Signs of a sociopath
• Glibness and Superficial Charm
• Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims
• Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right
• Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests
• Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

As to your using the entrapment defense, I am still not sold that this was a true entrapment; I would rather use the inducement argument which fits better the actual story. Finally both of us should be in agreement that the damage has been done, the question in front of us is what you would do now, to make sure that we don’t have a repeat of rabbis walking the perp walk shackled like common criminals.

114

 Feb 04, 2010 at 02:48 AM Yenta Says:

Reply to #47  
in my opinion Says:

one question. $10,000 he is making a month is that for the rest of his life? and is it tax free? ((((sounds like a great retirement plan)

But it depends , where his retirement will be. If it's in Jail, nothing great is awaiting him there .That's the only place he would end up after finishing all the cases with being a witness. Also, he better have a strong Heart & Kidney, because just facing his own Aunt & Uncle , he can get an Heart attack alone. Good Luck Mr. Bandit or i should say Mr. Gaslin

115

 Feb 04, 2010 at 12:48 PM Askupeh (part 1) Says:

Reply to #111  
OMG Says:

Part # 1
Askupeh;
Let’s first dispenses with the mesira issue, I just got off the phone with my Rabbi and he is Orthodox, he agreed with my view that the only reason why mesira was forbidden because years ago the king could on a whim steal somebody’s money or take a life without cause but as I said in our court system were the government just cannot without cause confiscate your belongings you are not bound by the mesira law, but my Rabbi was very clear, that if the mesira is involved with assets that could be legally confiscated as in proceeds of drug money, we must be careful because the police could and would confiscate the proceeds without any due process, finally I asked him about the specifics in our story, he replied that first I need to distinguish and ascertain did the government knew about any of the alleged illegalities without the Dwek information, and if they didn’t know even if he didn’t commit mesira per se, he committed numerous other sins. After my discussion I did some introspection, and I can to this conclusion, that logic would tell me that the government couldn’t have known each and everyone of the forty four people illegalities and having enough cause to impanel a grand jury and get a indictment, it is logical to assume that they didn’t know or didn’t have the little evidence that is needed to indict any of them, which we all know is a very low threshold. Therefore I must conclude that Dwek took on himself to get as many people entangled into his web. That said, the damage was already done, the questions should be how the Orthodox community would use this learning moment,

Judaism can be driven by feelings or by Halacha, which sometimes agree and sometimes contradict each other. We all have feelings, and just like my feelings wouldn’t allow me to Maser a Jew even if the Torah permitted it, and I won’t be a Novol Bershus HaTorah (literally translated to being a Menuval with the full permission of the Torah); similarly there are those whose feelings make them want to be super patriotic like the Russian Pavlik and would with glee Maser a Yid if permitted by the Torah. I know such people too.

Then there are Halochess which your rabbi correctly interpreted them to the best of his ability. He might be very well right intellectually and even Halachacally, but nevertheless Kol Yomei Godalti Bein Chachomim, and I feel that all of them would agree with my feelings and would consider any Haterim to Maser as an “Halacha Ve’ain Morin Kein” (It may be the Halacha, but nevertheless we won’t Paskin so).That’s why before anyone does anything like that it’s best to discuss it with their rabbi who should guide responsibly according to the situation, and consideration like Chayecho Kodmim.

But here we agree that Dwek asked no one before he sold himself to the devil.

116

 Feb 04, 2010 at 12:49 PM Askupeh (part 2) Says:

Reply to #112  
OMG Says:

Part # 2
In my younger days I did lots of thinking about the holocaust, it took me years trying to understand how and why a Jew would turn into a kapo, not everyone was a sadistic being some were even religious Jews, like my mother told me that she was saved by a student in the yeshiva that her father was involved, so here we are talking about a yeshiva student who was a kapo at Auschwitz, one hand he put his life on the line and pulled my mother literally from the gas chamber and hid her under the death bodies, and smuggled her back into the working camp and on the other hand not telling any of the others what is waiting for them, I always wondered how would have been the outcome if a thousand naked jews descend on the less then 20 guards who guarded the thousand or more Jews who walked quietly to the gas chambers, could have theses kapo’s make a small differences. Well the only answer I come up with, is that the Kapo had to somehow justify in their mind that they are doing the right thing, as they know that each one will eventually be gassed, so why tell them, let them die in dignity, or could it be I know I am going to die and everyone is going to die so who am I to say anything it wouldn’t make a difference, the same could be said in this case that Dwek is justifying because he believes that as he will spend a lot of time in jail so should others who committed crime, otherwise he is just sociopath defined by the following signs.

Another explanation to the Kapo syndrome is that after years of torture they simply lost their humanity. Then there was hate and jealousy as I was once told by a Hungarian survivor that when she arrived in Auschwitz they were greeted by Polish Kapos who had been there already a few years, and they taunted the newcomers for having had a good time until now and now “we are going to make you suffer”.

I have also heard of good Kapo’s who used to pretend that they were whipping the person but most whips hit the bed or the floor, and whenever they could they encouraged and helped the newcomers. Nevertheless many Kapo’s were killed by the inmates including even after the war.

117

 Feb 04, 2010 at 12:50 PM Askupeh (part 3) Says:

Reply to #113  
OMG Says:

Part # 3
Signs of a sociopath
• Glibness and Superficial Charm
• Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims
• Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right
• Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests
• Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

As to your using the entrapment defense, I am still not sold that this was a true entrapment; I would rather use the inducement argument which fits better the actual story. Finally both of us should be in agreement that the damage has been done, the question in front of us is what you would do now, to make sure that we don’t have a repeat of rabbis walking the perp walk shackled like common criminals.

You ask how the Orthodox community would use this learning moment, and what would we do now, to make sure that we don’t have a repeat of rabbis walking the perp walk shackled like common criminals.

I think that the answer to this is a positive one. Out of this already came the Agudah held gatherings to educate the public that we’re not anymore on unfriendly territory and being patriotic doesn’t just mean being pro America, but also honest citizens. Also we are a smart people who really learn fast and adapt quickly to our environment, and now that on top of that, the internet and information age has reached almost everybody who can now gage public reaction and public opinion, so I’m quite confidant that the situation will rectify itself, and see better days ahead of us.

118

Sign-in to post a comment

Scroll Up
Advertisements:

Sell your scrap gold and broken jewelry and earn hard cash sell gold today!