New York – This article is not meant as an attack on Emunas Chachomim or upon our Gedolei Yisroel, Chas VeShalom. But Emunas Chachomim does not mean that we should remain silent about a problem that has plagued our community for a number of years, and has become ever more acute in the past few months. We will dub it the “G” Problem.
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We will start with a seemingly innocuous manifestation of the “G” Problem presented in two parts. We begin with Part A:
A well-liked gvir, we will call him Mr. Levy, has a son who is soon to be Bar Mitzvahed. Mr. Levy takes the family to Eretz Yisroel which shows the chashivus he and his family have for Eretz Yisroel. Mr. Levy is also machshiv Torah. And part of the trip was to see the Gedolim of Eretz Yisroel. Mr. Levy, somehow, is able to get in to see Gadol #1. Indeed, he also gets in to see Gadol #2. In fact, the Levy’s spent close to twenty minutes in the small apartment of Gadol #1. Mr. Levy comes back with pictures and stories.
We now move on to part B of the story:
Rabbi Ploni is an outstanding Talmid Chachom. He is a Posaik in America with a pressing shailah. He has gone through the sugyah well. He flies to Eretz Yisroel to present the Shailah to Gadol #1. However, he cannot get in. Gadol #1 has a very pressing and onerous schedule. The Gabbai will try but cannot make any promises. Finally, after a day and one half, the Gabbai finds a five minute slot. Rabbi Ploni enters and attempts to present the Shailah. Gadol #1 must meet with someone else on a pressing issue and only has five minutes. The Gabbai points to his watch as Rabbi Ploni continues. Gadol #1 answers, but did he really understand all the nuances in the Shailah? No matter. The five minutes are over.
Now, what is the difference between part A and part B? The difference is that Mr. Levy had approached the Gabbai and gave a donation to the Gabbai’s Amutah (the Israeli equivalent of our 501c3). The Gabbai presents to Gadol #1 that Mr. Levy is a big Mokir Torah who donates heavily to many important Mosdos that Gadol #1 is involved with. Sometimes it is true, but very often it is a one-time donation to Mr. Gabbai’s Amutah. And part B? Well Rabbi Ploni is just that – a Ploni.
The dirty little secret is, and please check with your own More Horaah if he also thinks that this is true, that many of those that are surrounding our Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel are not the pristine baalei Mussar, Sonei Betzah that we would want them to be. One might argue that with the Bar Mitzvah boy story, the issue is rather harmless. What is wrong if a young Bar Mitzvah boy gets to meet Gadol #1 or Gadol #2? And what is wrong if an Israeli Amutah gets a donation?
The problem is precedence and the atmosphere of something wrong that is created. Because what happens when a bigger fish, with bigger funds comes along? The potential for Chillul Hashem of epic magnitude is quite real. The Gabbai wants his money and is overwhelmed by the power of Shochad. The Gemorah in Ksuvos 105a tells us clearly that even the biggest Talmid Chachom is not immune to Shochad – certainly a Gabbai.
The Gabbai has the ear of the Gadol. The Gadol trusts the information that comes from the Gabbai completely. Is there full disclosure on the part of the Gabbai to the Gadol. Elisha’s Gabbai didn’t practice full disclosure – do the Gabbaim nowadays do so?
Predictably, those that react to this column can be divided into three distinct groups.
Group I will be the, “How dare he?!?” group. They will view this as an attack on Emunas Chachomim and the Gedolei Yisroel. It is not. It is merely identifying a problem. The Titanic is sinking and we must all go now to the lifeboats. Yes, yes. The orchestra is still playing and the bar on board the Titanic is still serving alcohol. But it is time to go to the lifeboats.
Group II will be the, “Yes it is true, but not everything that is true should be written” group. The problem with that is that when we ignore some very real problems we become dysfunctional. The problem of the shady Gabbaim will not go away if it is swept under the carpet. It should be exposed and the erlicher people that are close to the Gedolim should tell them what is happening. The shady gabbai will find that the jig will soon be up.
Group III will be made up of those who welcome this column and will look for ways to help resolve the problem. It is also instructive to note that Rav Shach zatzal had no such Gabbaim. Rav Aharon Kotler zatzal also had no such individuals.
In conclusion, although in recent weeks it may seem that the problem has been exasperated, we do find consolation in the words of the Kli Yakar on Shmos (6:1). He writes that the darkest period is always just immediately before the dawn of light.
Good morning!!!!!
Wow! Excellent explanation of what is going on!
You are right.
Who do you suggest as a fair secretary/personal assistant for a gadol?
Note that the American litvishe rabonim, for the most part, don’t have gabbaim. If you call Reb Shmuel Kamenetzky, for instance, he just might be the one to answer the phone.
I am part of the unidentified group 4 – I agree fully with you. This is true in both the Yashivisha (Gedolim) velt and the Chassidish (Rebbish) velt. SInce Gaychazi – things didn’t change. The Gedolim remain Gedolim and the Gabbaim remain interested in only their pockets. They “own” this Godol, and will sell him for their own selfish interests. Go get ’em – fat chance.
Unfortunately this is how are religion runs. Whose son gets into the best yeshivahs the person who followed his Rebbe’s teachings and stayed in learning or the gvir’s son. Of course we know the answer.
there is a simple solution it just have to be implimented, like the rasturants have them, take a number.
I congrats you for taking the courage and publishing this, But I don’t expect little to change, as its so corrupted, as a Government office, full of politics, and unfortunately the Gabai’s Control it all, and you were very Aidel there is much more to the problem that you didn’t even touch.
The article is mostly 100% correct on the Gaboim problem.
The article is likewise 100% wrong in it’s assumption that Shochad only works on Gaboim.
In fact the article contradicts it’s self when it quotes form the Gemara:
“The Gemorah in Ksuvos 105a tells us clearly that even the biggest Talmid Chachom is not immune to Shochad”
The Gemara in Ksubos does NOT speak about the Gabai but rather about the “Talmid Chochom” himself!
Nowadays it is not only the Gabai who is at the mercy of the Money he gets i.w. “Shochad” rather every “Talmid Chochom” depends very heavily on the funds he gets as donations, both for his own livelihood and also because every one of these “Talmidey Chachomim” (including the 2 mentioned who perhaps had no official gabai), they too need millions to uphold their Yeshivos and Mosdos and THEIR LIFE and the life of their Yeshiva DEPENDS on funds.
It is impossible to say that the Gemara in Ksuvos 105a does not apply to anyone who does not have a Gabai.
On the contrary, if the Talmid Chochom takes money himself rather than via his Gabai, then he is Meshuchad himself “first hand” rather than being meshuchad 2nd hand via the gabai – says the Gemoro in Ksuvos 105a
These Gedolim should be sent a letter notifying them of the problem. Quite frankly, some of these Gedolim were never told that their gabbaim are causing a problem. For those rabbis that get this letter and do nothing about it, I would not classify them as a “Gaddol” so this problem does not apply to them anyway.
This issue is a lot less common than you are leading the readers to believe.
And to prove the point I can’t help and notice that when the Gadol passes away no one gives a hoot about the Gabbai because some of them are not yashar.
Gvirim, Gedolim, Gaboim, and Ganovim…all in the name of G-D of course.
The gedolim are the ones who picked their gabaim, you are implying that THEY are wrong, by saying rav shach didn’t have gaboim (your wrong btw) you are again implying that today’s gedolim are wrong for appointing gaboim, were is your emunas chachomim??
My rosh hayeshiva only had secretaries who were members of the yeshiva and didn’t have alternative agendas. He was an ish emes.
Given the amount of negative press the Gerer receive on this blog it would be nice to point out that ANY Shomer Shabbos can go in to the Gerer Rebbe witout going through any Gabbai or without having to give a ‘pidyon’ as a matter of fact, as a Ger Chossid myself I once tried to give the Rebbe a pidyon and he promptly returned it to me.
i had the zechus of being in ey about three weeks ago
and had the zexchus to visit the tzadik r yackov mayer schecter
his gabbai was the sweetest person never asked for money refused to take for writing the kvittel and gave an envelope that one can put in what they choose for the moisad and seal the envelope
it was an unbelievable expirence
ps i am reggular ploni
or as lipa would say “a poshiter yid”
The article is right that Money is Shochad.
The writer was very careful in putting all the blame on someone else (on the Gabai for taking the money) and in this way no one can say that the writer was disrespectful to any Gedolim since he is blaming only the Gabai.
But according to the Gemara there is no distinction if money is taken by the gabai or by the talmid chochom himself.
In fact it could be worse if money is taken directly as it would be direct shochad rather than indirect shochad.
Baruch HAshem!!
Finally a clearly written argument. You presented it extremely well…and I’ve been saying this for the longest time.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
This should be publicised
Having Gaboim is far better than not having Gaboim because if they have Gaboim, at least the money that people give is indirect.
I remember when i was a bucher and went with my father to Belle Harbor to the Satmere rebbe zt”l with a kvitel and had to wait 3-4 hours till we got in and saw hose very rich people with chaufered drivers walk in and in 15 minutes they were out…I went to a very big tzadik and waited 4 hours in the waiting room with a few other chasidim and the gabbe told me that waiting for a Tzadik is Kapures Avoynes…so when i saw those millionaires being taken in within 10 minutes i told the gabbe i had the zechiye to meet millonaires who never sinned and dont need kapures avoynes..
The Gemara relates that one of our greatest sages known as “Rebi” gave great honor to the Rich people.
“Rebi Mechabed Ashirim”.
“Good Morning” to all those who were never aware of the facts of life which makes the entire world tic and had just became a little aware and little shocked only after reading this article.
Those of us in the know, have known that this is what makes the entire world tic, ever since the beginning of time – Ein Chodosh Tachas Hashemesh.
Every “leader” has advisor’s who keep him informed and give him “eitzos” and the leader bases his decisions based on the input he gets and his decisions can never be any better than the input he gets.
The problem is not just money, the problem is also political connections and the gabai’s personal bias and the problem is also one of the “power brokers” that influence the chain of command.
This is how it works in every form of government from the president of the USA to the local leader of every small community.
These are the facts of life.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
To #3, If you think this doesn’t happen in the US with Litvishe Rabonim, You are blind. You think you can just scedule an appointment with LItvishe Gedolm? It goes dooule and triple in Eretz Yisroel. You think you can just easily get in to see Rav elishev and the other Gedolim? This is a problem across the board. This also effects the takonas we hear about. The Gedolim hear from a close group of “askanim” and “activists”. Often with their own agenda and not hearing the truth.
ever heard of gechezi? it’s in melochim
בגחזי משרתו של אלישע שמקבל מנעמן מתנות במרמה. הגחזי התעורר יצר החמדנות ולאחר שאלישע סרב לקבל מתנות תמורת הריפוי, רודף גחזי אחרי נעמן ובשם אדונו הוא מבקש מתנות. התנהגותו של נעמן אליו מוכיחה את הכבוד הרב שהוא (נעמן) רוחש לאלישע: הוא מפיל עצמו מעל מרכבתו ונותן לנער יותר מבקשותיו. בשובו של גחזי הו מנסה להסתיר מאלישע את מעשיו אך אלישע הוא נביא ורואה נסתרות והוא יודע את מעשיו של גחזי ומקלל אותו שצרעת נעמן תדבוק בו. ואכן גחזי יוצא מצורע כשלג. העונש של גחזי הוא עונש ניסי, נס לרע, העונש הוא בשיטת גמול לדורות – מידה כנגד מיה (הוא (אלישע) מקלל גם את בניו של גחזי).
What about considering that a gadol is entitled to a schedule of his choice? Why is anyone guaranteed an audience with a gadol? A gadol does not have to see either the gvir or ploni. A gadol is not being paid a salary as “chief gadol” by some organization or government. If a gadol chooses to see anyone, it is on the gadol’s terms.
As part of the status of being a “gadol” a gadol will probably be contacted by many people who see the advice and/or the opinion of this gadol. Clearly if some gabbai informs the gadol that a gvir will potentially give a lot of money to a charity that the gadol supports, the gadol may find time available in his busy schedule. The gadol may already have seen many “plonis” on that day. The gadol may be exhausted and overwhelmed. Exceptions can be made, and it is up to the gadol’s choice of gabbai to help decide the gadol’s schedule. This is why the gadol chose to have a gabbai.
Great article but if you go a level deeper, its not really solvable. Even by American roshei yeshivas some have gabbaim who are in a word bulvanim, you look at these guys who are bnei bayis by the rosh yeshiva and it’s not understandable how this low life is the rosh yeshivas right hand man. The reason is because the nice temimosdigeh ehrliche yungerman can’t handle the job and the pressure that comes along with it. Think about it, you have a top gadol, thousands of people need to speak to him, people will be banging down the doors, pushing, sneaking in, trying to get to the gadol. The ehrliche ben torah would have no clue how to get things in order; you need a bulvan to do crowd control. It’s a sad reality but the bottom line is that “Mr G” cannot be ehrlich or temmimosdig, because he would be roadkill before the first hello.
This problem existed in the time of the navi. His name was Geichazi he was the Gabbai of Elisha. People want to believe and therefore they allow themselves to be misled by gabbais!!
One of the roshei yeshivos of 30 years ago from Yeshiva Torah Vodaas did not accept one git, not even on Purim. In the 45 years this rosh Yeshiva under the leadership of Rav Pam did not accept any gifts or have a secretary for 45 years! WOW! Who can say this today?
first off … if you feel like your getting shafted and ill treated dont go to those guys…not a good sign in my opinion
but even better idea is to go to the super holy ones that are even MORE beloved by G-d. (and i quote- “Tzadikim Yoser Ahuvim Bemisasam” )
go and pray at the site of the Holy Dearly Departed (here are some suggestions- in Queens- Lubavitzer Rebbe, In Monsey- Ribnitzer Rebbe and Skulener Rebbe etc)
No lines…no gabbies…no funny business…just good clean fun.
you can make a deal with them…You have them in mind when davening or giving tzedakah , learning etc and they daven for you in uppers
try it …you cant lose
In conclusion ; Money talks .
Yasher Koach!
However, this is only one of the problems with these gaboim and what is going on with israeli gedolim today. There is also the mis-information that led to all the bans, whether you agree with all the bans, some of the bans, or non of the bans, there was certainly false information being presented to gedolim. Listen to R Nosson Kaminetsky’s shiur entitled “making of a ban” where he clearly states what he identifies were outright lies that were told to R Eliyashiv by his gabboim. He even confronted R Eliyashiv and he was maskim that he was lied to and said to R Nosson “How was I supposed to know- I don’t have ruach HaKoesh!”
The other thing that bothers me about this story is why rabbonim are taking shailos to E”Y poskim, we have huge gedolim here that our dor has forgotten about. R’ Dovid Feinstein was referred to by R Eliyashiv as the “muflah hador!”
Let’s get pask from our own rabbonim, anyone can go to MTJ and ask R Dovid a Shailla. He is at shacharis, he gives a halacha shiur and gemara shiur. He is there, and you dont need to go through a gabbai!
Naturally we all want to respect what we call “Daas Torah”.
But how can we really know if what we follow is really the real genuine “Daas Torah” or if it is perhaps really the influence of the “Daas Hagabai”?
I am by reb elyasihv very often.
Every ploni get get in to him to get a brochah.
A gadol or posek or rav can discuss with him and sit down.
A rich guy will not sit with him!
Unless he is a major millionaire that supports the whole klal yisroel and has some questions who to give money too or etc.
Yes he desercs more time.
This is all Greek to me. I don’t have money to travel to Eretz Yisroel, so I can’t understand any of this. Are there not enough Gedolim in America that one has to run to Eretz Yisroel to get an answer to a Shailah? Also, the phenomenon of running to EY for your son’s Bar Mitzvah costs plenty and wouldn’t your son and you be better off if you gave the money to local Aniyim or to the local yeshiva which can’t collect tuition from needy parents?
Money does not talk. Money screams.
“Emunas Chachomim does not mean that we should remain silent about a problem that has plagued our community for a number of years, and has become ever more acute in the past few months”
Plagued?? This is far from a plague. Examples of plagues are sinas chinam and loshon hora and intermarriage. get a grip.
This is a major problem.
But there are several gedolei haposkim here in the United States who are quite reachable.
Lo mei’eivar layam hi.
I have to say reb aron of satmar is very open you could reach any time day and night true a cell phone. No question asked and yes its free!!! Btw I happen to be his brothers chusid!!!!
true, and how true!!
but this column is not addressing the issue right, the problem is much worse & much deeper than its written here, many of us don’t care how long ‘Rabbi P’loini’ spoke to ‘Gadol #1 ’, but there r many other crimes & Machlokes done to people by Gabayim some of them r done with Money bribing & some of them just for politics and hate… with their power & monopoly over all others
My impression from the majority comments ;This is a pretty corrupt business .
A soneh betza is very rare. I have seen many gabboim and gedolim. The vast majority of people have alterior motives which involve their personal gain. For this reason, I laugh when I hear some of the above mentioned as daas torah-and infallible.
Kach hu Darko she’ll oilam… It’s
Always been, and always will be like that.
There are plenty of Gedolim that the forelorn Posek can consult with, who have shorter or no lines. They are just not listed in the phonebook under “G” or have their pictures in the Kupat Hair glossies.
The Vilna Gaon was lied to by his “Gaboim” and it was the false information he was fed which was his entire basis for his entire Machlokes against Chassidim.
is the lubavitcher rebbe the only rebbe that never took a dime from anyone who went in to see him? I mean he would gGIVE out money to people who came to him for a bracha.correct me if I’m wrong.
no need for any young gadul to have a gabai if he is too old let him give over the kehilah to a younger rabbi and let him live out in peace till the 120 or till moshiach comes bimheiru beyomeinu this will solve many problems
There is a new song out there:
“Ich Vil Zein a Gabai”….
I once went to Rav Moshe zt”l with a ribis shaila. Rav Moshe worked out a contract so there would not be any issur ribbus. He actually wrote the contract himself by hand. Afterwards, I went to the person taking care of Rav Moshe (he was already getting sick) & insisted on paying Rav Moshe for his time as his time was no less valuable than any big time lawyer (lhavdil). The gabbai told me it wasn’t necessary. But I insisted anyway, saying that I felt Rav Moshe should be compensated for the time it took him to actually write the contract which was about an hour.
The next morning, the gabbai called me & said that rRv Moshe does not take any money, but if I insist on paying, he has a tzedooka fund called “Merubim Tzorchei Amcha” to which I could contribute, but only if I insist.
Who can replace such a Gedol?
Much of what is passed off as Daas Torah is really Daas Gabaim, Askanim, and Gevrim. So we have to look not for ruach hakodesh but enough evidence of understanding of the outside world that they can keep their gabaim, etc on a short leash and be savvy in judging character and the world. That in addition to learning was part of the gadlus of R. Moshe. On the other hand, when a “gadol” keeps on being misled he loses his credibility as a posek and a manhig of the clal. He may be great in learning, but is not enough to make a great posek or great leader of a kehillah.
Most of the great figures of the previous generation earned their status by showing they were good judges of the world. Unfortunately many present day leaders inherited their positions and are being promoted by the gabaim who have an interest in the business (if you know what I mean).
Someone once asked R’ Shlomo of bobov, why he is gives respect to the rich by seating them in next to himself by tish, while the Talmud Chuchem he doesn’t stands on the parenches.
He should of given more honor to the talmud chuchem
So he answered, that rebbe was michabed the rich, as stated in the gemurah.
No rebbe was a very wealthy man, why in the world did he need to give respect to the geveir?
so he said that rebbe knew, im oin kemach oin torah, if there is no money then you cant build yeshivas and mosdes.
So if you wont be mechabed the geveir, you wont have anything from his money, and a talmud chuchem that you wont be mechabed, wont stop learning, and if he does stop learning, then you dont have to respect him.
This is no corruption, this is how this is supposed to go