New York – Mr. A” is a 43-year-old chasidic man who is so afraid to make mistakes in his daily prayers that he cannot bring himself to get out of bed until noon or 1 p.m. The reason? Obsessions he’s faced since his days in yeshiva, when he was consistently the last person to finish praying each morning.
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“He thought he was just more religious than everyone in the class,” said Dr. Steven Friedman, a professor of clinical psychiatry at SUNY Downstate, who was addressing a group of fellow therapists. “Patients who have religious obsessions often don’t recognize or admit that they have symptoms.”
Friedman was speaking to a group of 30 therapists — at least 20 of them Orthodox Jews — who had gathered for a three-day conference this week at SUNY Downstate Medical Center in Brooklyn sponsored by the Behavior Therapy Training Institute of the International Obsessive Compulsive Disorder Foundation. While the Institute holds about three of these meetings annually, this was the first conference tailored specifically to the needs of Orthodox Jewish therapists, who had been unable to attend regular Saturday programming.
I’d say a prayer for this person but if I don’t say it right, I don’t want to get into the habit of waking up at 1 PM.
shtusim!
this guy stays in bed because he likes to Puff away. he’s probably up, till late at night surfing the web or listining to the radio etc. of course he’s then unable to get up.
let him begin a normal life style with a responsible schedule and all problems will be resolved
I just keep on reading and rereading this article
OCD is rampant in the Heimeisha community. All the chumras and shabbos deadlines makes it more likely.
I can relate. Sometimes I am so confused by which Bracha to make over a particular food, that I have given up eating my favorite dish (locusts).
It’s about time that the heimishe community is having such meetings for OCD. If the parents suffer from it, they pass it on to their children and so forth!
A yid with a compulsive disorder….impossible. If I simply look around the beis medrash during shachris and focus on the personal minhagim (aka compulsive behaviors) that seem to afflict everyone in the room, we would need to being GROUP therapy immediately.
Awesome Purim Torah! And here I thought he was just being super super machmir.
B”H they are doing something about it!!
A lot of sholom bayis problems could be prevented!
There is an incredible letter from the Steipler about this which is printed in the sefer by Rabbi Greenwald who sent many of these types of shailos to him.
It’s a serious issue, that needs to start coming to the surface and be discussed openly at our Shoybbes tables.
keeping sweeping it under the carpet as was done with alcoholism and drugs till it became a widespread epidemic.
then suddenly there was a problem.
I am completely obssessed if I have the right shade of blue for tzitzits……….also I am color-blind
When I was in yeshiva, there was a bochur who was so midakdek in washing hands that they were red, raw and cracked. I knew another guy who was so focused on the rambam’s requirements upon arising that he missed davening every morning and was late for shuir. It is easy for us to mistake this real and often debilitating disorder for frumkeit.
I don’t know why the responses of the readers above seem to be making light of it. I can totally relate to the guy who is afraid of making a mistake by davening. I myself have had times when I would repeat every other word by davening ten times, because I was scared I did’nt say it right. It’s a horrible condition to live with, and I wish I would have someone, other than a therapist, to share this with.
There is hardly any support out there for a frum person. There might be some referal agnecies, but that’s where it ends. I would love to see more articles in the frum world on the subject, and maybe some helplines
and support groups…
Also, #10 mentioned a letter from the steipler in a book by Rabbi Greenwald. Which book is that, and where can I get it?
I always thought every Chasidic person that I ever seen had some sort of a behavioral abnormality. Now this article confirms my suspicions.
This strikes me as genuine. It’s one thing to daven long, or daven with super-wild gesticulations, but to me, the few individuals who loudly repeat each and every sound of the Krias Shma three times, to the point that they aren’t even finished by the time the rest of the kehilla is ready to start Sh’moneh Esrei — well, it’s not totally normal, let’s put it that way.
I watched a Bucher in shul that could not stop checking and adjusting his Tefillin to a point where he did not daven a solitary word. He was too concerned about whether his shel rosh was centered and if it was too far forward etc. It definitely exists.
Finally, something (will hopefully) be done in the frum community for a very bad disease that affects our community so greatly. This is a disease that is very prevelent in the frum community, since there are alot of halachos, dinim & minhagim which we are faced with & that we try to abide by them 100%.Unfortuantly, these people have long yearned for some help, but however they were worried with the stigma of being labeled as an OCD. As was quoted in this article from Dr Freidman “In addition to discussing these specific behaviors and treatment techniques, the doctors focused on the unwillingness of many Orthodox Jews to even seek treatment, in a community where mental health issues are somewhat taboo.”
As for Dr Freidman, he is an expert in this field. I hope that there will be a educational conference for the general frum community making them aware of this issue & how to seek help. This is long overdue. This has affected many people with parnosa, shulem bayis, chinuch, etc.
May Hashem give the people suffering from this disease the wisdom & courage to get help, so they can get their life back together.
ocd yes- but the first address SURELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!
DR.STEVEN FRIEDMAN is the most knowledgeable frum person in anxiety disorders, & one of the sharpest diagnosticians around (718-624-0488) dr. friedman is also very intellectually honest: if u need meds he’ll tell u &if; he cant help u he wont keep you
but most people suffering from ocd need more than a therapist they also need someone to coach them & do the homework
NO HYPNOSIS…ONE BRAIN,,, DO NOT WORK ASK DR FRIEDMAN
lastly people who have very severe ocd should usually try meds first until the ocd becomes less frequent & less severe & than go for cbt
This can be treated like many other problems. Thank goodness. The laws are there but some take certain laws and obsess to the point of craziness and waste of time. There must be self-esteem issues that need to be dealt with. They are usually nebech who fixate. They can drive their spouses nuts too especially if the spouse doesn’t want to understand these issues.
Go to the classrooms where the kinderlach are being taught how to daven. You will see the roots of OCD.
ocd is a real disorder which manifests differently in each indivisual. i’t takes over a person’s life much like an addiction.the only excuse i can find for the indivisuals on this sight making rediculous and insensitive comments about ocd(and other psychiatric issues) is that they are simply ignorant.
I just don’t understand why people grow up believing G-d demands perfection. Somehow, I was always taught to do the best you can do – we’re all only human. I’m sure you’ll get just as much mitzvah credit for going to shul in terrible weather even if C’VS your shel rosh is a millimeter off center. Don’t you? Isn’t it more of what’s in your heart and brain instead of what’s on it?
Most of you are minsinfomed. Ocd is an “illness” that manifests itself in different repetitive behaviors. It is a “mental disorder” and can not be blamed on the classrooms, the parents, the teachers or on anyone publicly “berating a person! OCD knows no boundaries, religions, or age. If one who is prone to OCD would not be religous, his OCD would be the cause of another issue.It is highly treatable by medications and an experienced therapist who specializes in CBT therapy. Unfortunately its a lifetime struggle,however once the person becomes aware of how to treat his “thoughts” he has more control of it.It is very prevalent in our frum circles and our community must be made aware of this “illness.”
HHHEELLPPPPPPP………
I’m obsessed with listening to KOL MEVASER, as much as it has been explained to me that it’s made for people with an IQ of %5 or lower, I can’t stop listening to them.
Dr. Friedman is a wonderful therapist!
there is a show on A & E called obsessions which gives you just a glimpse of what its like in the day of a person with OCD.
i dont have TV i watched it on their website aetv.com
ocd is a terribly painful mental illness. Any psychiatrist or psychologist can tell you of their patients’ suffering. It is very wrong to make fun of people who cannot help themselves. Religion absolutely does not cause ocd. However, it is very likely that a frum person with ocd will have obsessions manifested in religious rituals such as davening, washing and other mitzvos. If he/she would not be religious the obsessions would take another form such as checking the lights, checking that the car is parked correctly etc.
As a child I suffered from OCD. No one knows, not even my husband. Some how I got over it & I never had it since, I don’t remember how or why. I just pray it never comes back but at least I’d know to get help. At 8 years old i didn’t know what to do. That period of my life was ruined by my obsession with washing my hands. The worst thing was hiding it from my family, because they would have either yelled at me or laughed at me, just like you people are doing.
What upsets me is that so many of you clowns think this is funny. it’s not. It’s a shame you are all so ignorant & stupid. You wouldn’t know OCD if it jumped up & bit you. You think everything you don’t know about (which for most of you morons is pretty much everything) is cause for making fun.
Why do you think this is funny? Is diabetes? Heart disease? Cancer? Down syndrome? Why is mental illness a joke? Are you afraid it’s catching?
You are heartless. Have you any clue how much humiliation you add to what we already feel? You think OCD sufferers ENJOY this? You call yourselves Frum Jews. Now THAT is a joke.
To all those complaining about the joking about OCD – let me say this to you, let me say this to you, let me say this to you. If OCD were not to be mocked and would be treated as normal by the community at large – then what would be so abnormal with OCD?? Its not that terrible to be busy and always have something to do! The Gemara says that “Kol leTzinusa Asura, chutz meLetzinasa D’Avodah Zara” and its actually a Mitzva to make Laytzanis from Avoda Zara. So true with OCD. We should (at least on this blog) make all the letzunes we feel like, about the overall hanhagah of OCD. However – on a personal level – the greatest respect and acceptance should be shown to an individual OCD sufferer personally. Hug him/her, Kiss him/her, tell them you are supportive of them. Buy them the book titled “Brain Lock” – its mamish gevaldig. As a shtikkel zeitigga haAreh, I was wondering whether people can have OCD just on one Aiver, for example, my eyelids keep on constantly blinking over and over. Can this be OCD or maybe its only ICD? Any nermahlleh comments in this regard would be greatly appreciated, will be greatly appreciated, will be greatly appreciated.
I used to have a “krenk” where I would kiss mezzuzos nonstop… It was really annoying to me and others. I also suffered from many related OCD reactions. But one day I told myself, ENOUGH! I literally forced myself not to kiss the mezzuza more than once, I did not touch everything with my left AND right hand (and then with both). Slowly but surely I got over it.
Point is, name it what you want, it’s in your power to stop it. Except if you’re in the business of making excuses and looking for support groups to empathize with you. In that case, it’s probably a case of lacking self confidence or depression. Think about it.
my husband has been diagnosed with OCD, we live with it on a constant basis. To know that he will read this column and see how many people are mocking him and what he has to live with tears me to pieces, i thank Hashem that i was granted the opportunity to marry such a special person who, can honestly look at himself and get the help he needs and has the heart to be kind to others, Many of you may not have ocd, but you have a far worse illness called insensitivity and there is help for that too, i suggest you get it!
While I think it’s important that people get the help they want for something they regard as a problem/mental illness, I think it’s equally important that people who behave in unusual ways and don’t regard this as a problem/mental illness aren’t labelled with some “illness”. There is no objective standard what constitutes a “mental illness”, it all depends on your value system and the surrounding society.
reply to #34
True that OCD is genetic and a mental disorder. But the environment can also be a big trigger…for a person that is already predisposed.
reply to #36 (from #17 )
Is there a way where I can give you my e-mail address without posting it for everyone to see, so that we can share some info on a potential support group.
Hi, I’m the original author of The Jewish Week article. I agree with Yitzchok Aryeh (above me) that this condition must be taken very seriously, and it is very sad to see so many people mock or joke about symptoms.
Thanks to VosIzNeias for reposting my article.
Sharon Udasin
http://www.sharonudasin.com/2010/02/orthodox-compulsive-disorder/
The children are taught from a very young age about the letter of the law without really understanding the spirit of it. It’s not about what type of tablecloth, how big tjhe brim, or if your sleeves are covering past your wrist.. what we should be concerned with, is something other than yourself and you will be ok. That is the true way to yiddishkeit, and ahavas yisroel..
The whole frum community is suffering from religious ocd. I hope they find a cure soon!
People who get up at 530am sharp everyday for vosikin are OCD.
People who get up at different late hours because they were glued to some medium the night before are OCD.
Is everyone OCD? …or just the habit-forming ones?!
To be a ‘significantly’ observant Jewish male one has to be OCD.
The more organized material a person studies, the more OCD they become.
The more repetitive their habits, also the more OCD they become.
With regard to this guy, his Jewish OCDness hit a bump in the road and is cruising in the wrong lane, all he needs is the right OCD lane.
Oh wait, is there something wrong with being OCD? or is there a right OCD?!
As a modest Ben Tayreh who has lived in a Yeshivishe environment since the age of 16, and who addresses every shayleh to a Rov for his Daas Tayreh which is the only Yiddishe response to every question and/or problem, I am totally disappointed in all of you who worship the expertise of a psycholog rather than a Godol Btayreh.
Loy Zu Haderech. No even one of you made a Remez to Kedusho, Tzom, Tehillim, Kivrei Tzadikkim. And you consider yourselves frun? A shande Und a Charpo. You think our Roshei Yeshivo, Talmidei Chachomim, Gediolim, Admoirim don’t know how to deal with OCD and other issues? Oy, they know, and how. They know but you don’t want to listen to them because they will tell you the Emes – that YOU are the ones with the issues, you say words without Kavono, Hisbonenus, Hakpodo and Yir’as Shomayim.
Get off this page and run to Bais Hamedrash with your “Menuval Zeh”. Seek Da’a Tayreh. Do Teshuveh. Don’t put down a Yid, Ish Eshko Moleh Kavonos Kerimon who is Makpid Al DaKo KeChmuro & does not want to be Nichshal Ba’oilom Hazeh.