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Vienna, Austria - Jews Outrage at Far Right Presidential Candidate

Published on: March 2, 2010 08:54 AM
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Barbara RosenkranzBarbara Rosenkranz

Vienna, Austria - Austrian far-right presidential candidate Barbara Rosenkranz drew sharp criticism from the country’s Jewish organizations Tuesday - who highlighted her controversial stance on Holocaust deniers. Rosenkranz, 51, has criticized Austria’s anti-Nazi law, which outlaws Holocaust-denial, as a curb on free speech.

Freedom Party politician Rosenkranz is the only other nominee besides Social Democratic incumbent Heinz Fischer. He is widely expected to win the April 25 election.

Rosenkranz’s candidature was a “mockery of the 65,000 Austrian Jews killed in the Shoah,” the Jewish communities said in a statement.

They called on the public, civic groups and other parties not to boycott Rosenkranz’s bid - although she stands no reasonable chance of winning.

Pollsters predict that the Freedom Party nominee could collect over 20 per cent of votes. Other parties have not fielded candidates, citing Fischer’s popularity.

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In the 1980s, her husband Jakob Rosenkranz was active in a neo-Nazi party NDP, which has since been banned.


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1

 Mar 02, 2010 at 09:15 AM Anonymous Says:

What Europeans call the Far Right (Nazis and their apologists) is actually the Extreme Left according to American standards. The National Socialists (Nazis) were a Left-wing party of Socialists that took their strategy right from the Karl Marx play book. Socialists like to tax and spend, socialists want government control even over trivial aspects of your life and socialists believe in euthanizing "inferior" people, all of which are anathema to Right Wingers.

2

 Mar 02, 2010 at 09:29 AM Velvel Says:

What do you expect from the birthplace of hitler y'm.

3

 Mar 02, 2010 at 09:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

What Europeans call the Far Right (Nazis and their apologists) is actually the Extreme Left according to American standards. The National Socialists (Nazis) were a Left-wing party of Socialists that took their strategy right from the Karl Marx play book. Socialists like to tax and spend, socialists want government control even over trivial aspects of your life and socialists believe in euthanizing "inferior" people, all of which are anathema to Right Wingers.

hey you don't know what you're talking about. I'm also a coservative (i also listen to Limbaugh and Hannity). but you're confusing the facts. Hitler ym"s was far right. he did not believe in equality, taxes, services for the poor, He discriminated against minorities as far as wanting to kill them all. All he wanted was a strong army.

4

 Mar 02, 2010 at 10:11 AM Anonymous Says:

people still a little shiker from purim ?

5

 Mar 02, 2010 at 10:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

hey you don't know what you're talking about. I'm also a coservative (i also listen to Limbaugh and Hannity). but you're confusing the facts. Hitler ym"s was far right. he did not believe in equality, taxes, services for the poor, He discriminated against minorities as far as wanting to kill them all. All he wanted was a strong army.

No, it is YOU who are sadly misinformed by the Liberal Progressives who own the media. The Nazis were socialists, and this is readily evident in the manner in which they expropriated industries, private wealth and controlled the presses and the schools. There is no Socialist on earth who believes in "equality". Equality is a concept of the Right. Socialists are comprised of people not in power who seek to usurp power from the upper classes and steal their wealth and redistribute it to their own party members. You seem to think that Socialists are benevolent beings who wish to shower the blessings of tax money on the poor and provide them with entitlement "services". You couldn't be more wrong. The reason for the services is to subjugate them, strip them of freedom of choice and indoctrinate them in their schools, euthanize the weak and finally to control them and decide who lives and who dies. Does this sound eerily like a Hitlerian philosophy? You couldn't possibly listen to Limbaugh and still believe that Hitler was a right-winger. Try listening and learning the truth for a change.

6

 Mar 02, 2010 at 11:26 AM Anonymous Says:

How could it be that out of six million Jews only 1 percent were from Austria? Something doesn't make sense, especially if it is held that three million died in Poland.

7

 Mar 02, 2010 at 11:34 AM historian Says:

Austria is the most anti-semitic country in Western Europe. It is the only country that open welcomed the Nazis and in an undisputedly fair plebiscite welcomed the Nazis. A record as the only normal election the Nazis won. Present day German certainly has its faults but to its credit has in the past 50 years apologised for their crimes, paid out billions in compensation and consistently supported Israel. Nthing compared to their crimes but Austria has done none of these, hence their penchant for holocaust denial.
And BTW. The Nazis were a socialist party. Jews have never suffered under, or persecuted by Right wing governments. Right wing anti-semitism is a fiction invented by the anti-semitc left to cover their views and crimes.

8

 Mar 02, 2010 at 11:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

hey you don't know what you're talking about. I'm also a coservative (i also listen to Limbaugh and Hannity). but you're confusing the facts. Hitler ym"s was far right. he did not believe in equality, taxes, services for the poor, He discriminated against minorities as far as wanting to kill them all. All he wanted was a strong army.

Hitler ym"sh was far left. Read some history.

9

 Mar 02, 2010 at 11:40 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

What Europeans call the Far Right (Nazis and their apologists) is actually the Extreme Left according to American standards. The National Socialists (Nazis) were a Left-wing party of Socialists that took their strategy right from the Karl Marx play book. Socialists like to tax and spend, socialists want government control even over trivial aspects of your life and socialists believe in euthanizing "inferior" people, all of which are anathema to Right Wingers.

If the "far right" candidate is actually "extreme left," than what is "social democrat" candidate she is running against? You are a fool who knows nothing about history.
Right-wingers have always been marked by flag-waving uber-nationalism and the suspicion of foreigners, immigrants etc. Sound familiar? Nazi's were not marching in the streets in favor of gay or minority rights, they were rounding them up and killing them.
Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think Stormfront or the Neo-Nazi movements in this country are? I invite you to peruse their websites and challenge you to find anything that is "extreme left" about them.

10

 Mar 02, 2010 at 12:48 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

If the "far right" candidate is actually "extreme left," than what is "social democrat" candidate she is running against? You are a fool who knows nothing about history.
Right-wingers have always been marked by flag-waving uber-nationalism and the suspicion of foreigners, immigrants etc. Sound familiar? Nazi's were not marching in the streets in favor of gay or minority rights, they were rounding them up and killing them.
Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think Stormfront or the Neo-Nazi movements in this country are? I invite you to peruse their websites and challenge you to find anything that is "extreme left" about them.

Right wingers in the US are trying to rewrite history no less than the fictional Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984. To call Hitler, Mussolini, Laval, Szálasi, Dmowski, or Franco "left wing" is like calling a pig kosher. All were brutal fascists who supported a corporate state and massive violations of civil liberties. The ONLY tiny grain of truth is that Mussolini and Laval did start out their political lives as socialists, but that was long in the past by the time either came to power. And the only ones on that list who was not a party to the Shoah were Dmowski -- because he died in 1939 -- and Franco, who actually saved a few Jewish lives.

11

 Mar 02, 2010 at 12:52 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

If the "far right" candidate is actually "extreme left," than what is "social democrat" candidate she is running against? You are a fool who knows nothing about history.
Right-wingers have always been marked by flag-waving uber-nationalism and the suspicion of foreigners, immigrants etc. Sound familiar? Nazi's were not marching in the streets in favor of gay or minority rights, they were rounding them up and killing them.
Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think Stormfront or the Neo-Nazi movements in this country are? I invite you to peruse their websites and challenge you to find anything that is "extreme left" about them.

Unlike Germany, the Social Democrats in Austria have not had a great record on issues of concern to us, even though they elected a Jewish Prime Minister in the 1960s. While in much of Europe it is clear that it is the Left that has been best for Jews, it isn't clear that anyone has been good for Jews in Austria since the collapse of the Hapsburg Empire.

12

 Mar 02, 2010 at 01:14 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #7  
historian Says:

Austria is the most anti-semitic country in Western Europe. It is the only country that open welcomed the Nazis and in an undisputedly fair plebiscite welcomed the Nazis. A record as the only normal election the Nazis won. Present day German certainly has its faults but to its credit has in the past 50 years apologised for their crimes, paid out billions in compensation and consistently supported Israel. Nthing compared to their crimes but Austria has done none of these, hence their penchant for holocaust denial.
And BTW. The Nazis were a socialist party. Jews have never suffered under, or persecuted by Right wing governments. Right wing anti-semitism is a fiction invented by the anti-semitc left to cover their views and crimes.

"Jews have never suffered under, or persecuted by Right wing governments."

What an ignorant statement!!!

Czarist Russia?

Poland after the death of Pilsudski?

Hungary under Horthy, and then under the even worse Arrow Cross?

Vichy France?

Croatia under the Ustashe?

Romania under Antonescu?

The ONLY conservative governments in power in Europe during WW2 that I've found that DIDN'T deliberately send Jews to their death were in Finland, Spain, Portugal, and the UK.

13

 Mar 02, 2010 at 01:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Charlie Hall Says:

Right wingers in the US are trying to rewrite history no less than the fictional Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984. To call Hitler, Mussolini, Laval, Szálasi, Dmowski, or Franco "left wing" is like calling a pig kosher. All were brutal fascists who supported a corporate state and massive violations of civil liberties. The ONLY tiny grain of truth is that Mussolini and Laval did start out their political lives as socialists, but that was long in the past by the time either came to power. And the only ones on that list who was not a party to the Shoah were Dmowski -- because he died in 1939 -- and Franco, who actually saved a few Jewish lives.

Fascism is not necessarily right-wing. Fascism incorporates both right and left wing extremes and is really independent of contemporary political identifiers.
Attributing Hitlers monstrosities to a particular political orientation is just a way for hyper-partisans to score cheap political points, devoid of any historical context. Does anyone look at a typical chai-tea-sipping-liberal-hippie in Park Slope or shotgun-totting redneck hunter in Oklahoma and think Nazi? I think not.
It's time to grow up, and stop the name-calling. Nothing of substantive value ever arises from it.

14

 Mar 02, 2010 at 01:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

If the "far right" candidate is actually "extreme left," than what is "social democrat" candidate she is running against? You are a fool who knows nothing about history.
Right-wingers have always been marked by flag-waving uber-nationalism and the suspicion of foreigners, immigrants etc. Sound familiar? Nazi's were not marching in the streets in favor of gay or minority rights, they were rounding them up and killing them.
Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think Stormfront or the Neo-Nazi movements in this country are? I invite you to peruse their websites and challenge you to find anything that is "extreme left" about them.

Not true. Not true. Not true. Right wingers are people like Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan, believers in the individual, human rights, freedom of expression, minimual govt. intrusion, private property ownership and freedom of religion. Leave the flag waving aside for a moment but where do you see 1) suspicion of foreigners/immigrants and 2) murdering of innocent civilians? That's right! Only in Left Wing Communist paradises like Russia, Cuba, Vietnam, China, North Korea and to a lesser extent, Venezuela.

Social Democrats are Center Left. Incidentally, "gay rights", "animal rights", "Global Warming" and "vegetarianism" are tools of the far Left to supplant belief in G-d and religion, they are not beliefs held by Conservatives, or people on the right, although they wish no harm to homosexuals, neither do they believe they deserve special privileges or "rights".

This woman is a Leftist if I ever saw one.

15

 Mar 02, 2010 at 01:53 PM Professor Says:

Reply to #10  
Charlie Hall Says:

Right wingers in the US are trying to rewrite history no less than the fictional Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984. To call Hitler, Mussolini, Laval, Szálasi, Dmowski, or Franco "left wing" is like calling a pig kosher. All were brutal fascists who supported a corporate state and massive violations of civil liberties. The ONLY tiny grain of truth is that Mussolini and Laval did start out their political lives as socialists, but that was long in the past by the time either came to power. And the only ones on that list who was not a party to the Shoah were Dmowski -- because he died in 1939 -- and Franco, who actually saved a few Jewish lives.

"To call Htiler, Mussolini, Franco "left wing" is like calling a pig kosher.." Actually,
there is historical substance to the proposition that the extreme "right" and "left"
have much in common: Emphasis on big government with totalitarian and despotic
designs. For example, Mussolini ranted and raved against capitalism. Hitler
also attacked free enterprise. (Hitler denounced Communism, blaming Jews for
being capitalists and communists.) Don't forget that the term "Nazi" stood for
National Socialists. Among their ranks were real socialists. You're right about
"il duce". He was a socialist and in fact held Hitler in contempt---originally. (I'm
not excusing Mussolini; he was a despot and cooperated with Hitler the "Amalekite".)
Read Prof. Jonas Goldberg's book Liberal Fascism. The author expounds on
this theme. (Of course there are differences between communism and fascism.
The former target complete governmental control of the means of production and
while the latter combines government and big business with welfare state policies
to pacify the masses. In Europe anti-Semitism was incorporated into statist
policy.) Watch out for Comrade Obama & his Czars. It is statism--deja vu.

16

 Mar 02, 2010 at 02:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Charlie Hall Says:

Right wingers in the US are trying to rewrite history no less than the fictional Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984. To call Hitler, Mussolini, Laval, Szálasi, Dmowski, or Franco "left wing" is like calling a pig kosher. All were brutal fascists who supported a corporate state and massive violations of civil liberties. The ONLY tiny grain of truth is that Mussolini and Laval did start out their political lives as socialists, but that was long in the past by the time either came to power. And the only ones on that list who was not a party to the Shoah were Dmowski -- because he died in 1939 -- and Franco, who actually saved a few Jewish lives.

Charlie, please go back & reread 1984. Winston Smith didn't try to rewrite history, Big Brother & his inner circle did. Smith worked in a Govt. Ministry & was paid to change past news articles but he had an epiphany, and then became a truth seeker. The Right Wingers in America similarly want the truth of history exposed. It is Left Wingers like Howard Zinn who are rewriting history to make America seem aggressive and imperialistic. Since

Fascists (like others on the Left) do not believe in the power of the individual and advocate a single party state. Fascists are cultists, not religious (believers of Social Darwinism) and support the creation of a totalitarian state, all definitely in the Left Wing Camp. Charlie Hall is just throwing out names while ignoring the bigger picture, namely, the elimination of individual rights, which the Right abhors.
If more people listened to Rush Limbaugh & Michael Savage, there would be a push for more freedom in America & less taxation and Govt. intrusion.

17

 Mar 02, 2010 at 02:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Professor Says:

"To call Htiler, Mussolini, Franco "left wing" is like calling a pig kosher.." Actually,
there is historical substance to the proposition that the extreme "right" and "left"
have much in common: Emphasis on big government with totalitarian and despotic
designs. For example, Mussolini ranted and raved against capitalism. Hitler
also attacked free enterprise. (Hitler denounced Communism, blaming Jews for
being capitalists and communists.) Don't forget that the term "Nazi" stood for
National Socialists. Among their ranks were real socialists. You're right about
"il duce". He was a socialist and in fact held Hitler in contempt---originally. (I'm
not excusing Mussolini; he was a despot and cooperated with Hitler the "Amalekite".)
Read Prof. Jonas Goldberg's book Liberal Fascism. The author expounds on
this theme. (Of course there are differences between communism and fascism.
The former target complete governmental control of the means of production and
while the latter combines government and big business with welfare state policies
to pacify the masses. In Europe anti-Semitism was incorporated into statist
policy.) Watch out for Comrade Obama & his Czars. It is statism--deja vu.

Franco never persecuted Jews. Indeed those few jews who managed to get to Spain during the war were welcomed and were safe.

18

 Mar 02, 2010 at 02:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

Not true. Not true. Not true. Right wingers are people like Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan, believers in the individual, human rights, freedom of expression, minimual govt. intrusion, private property ownership and freedom of religion. Leave the flag waving aside for a moment but where do you see 1) suspicion of foreigners/immigrants and 2) murdering of innocent civilians? That's right! Only in Left Wing Communist paradises like Russia, Cuba, Vietnam, China, North Korea and to a lesser extent, Venezuela.

Social Democrats are Center Left. Incidentally, "gay rights", "animal rights", "Global Warming" and "vegetarianism" are tools of the far Left to supplant belief in G-d and religion, they are not beliefs held by Conservatives, or people on the right, although they wish no harm to homosexuals, neither do they believe they deserve special privileges or "rights".

This woman is a Leftist if I ever saw one.

You are confusing and conflating right-wing and Republican. Thomas Jefferson was a very liberal Republican for his time, akin to today's Libertarian. I did not say Republicans were suspicious of foreigners/immigrants or that that they murder innocent civilians. I said there are right-wing elements in this country that embrace those ideas, namely the white-supremacy/neo-nazi movements who have far more in common with the old Nazi party than anything you can find in the "extreme left."

19

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:09 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #15  
Professor Says:

"To call Htiler, Mussolini, Franco "left wing" is like calling a pig kosher.." Actually,
there is historical substance to the proposition that the extreme "right" and "left"
have much in common: Emphasis on big government with totalitarian and despotic
designs. For example, Mussolini ranted and raved against capitalism. Hitler
also attacked free enterprise. (Hitler denounced Communism, blaming Jews for
being capitalists and communists.) Don't forget that the term "Nazi" stood for
National Socialists. Among their ranks were real socialists. You're right about
"il duce". He was a socialist and in fact held Hitler in contempt---originally. (I'm
not excusing Mussolini; he was a despot and cooperated with Hitler the "Amalekite".)
Read Prof. Jonas Goldberg's book Liberal Fascism. The author expounds on
this theme. (Of course there are differences between communism and fascism.
The former target complete governmental control of the means of production and
while the latter combines government and big business with welfare state policies
to pacify the masses. In Europe anti-Semitism was incorporated into statist
policy.) Watch out for Comrade Obama & his Czars. It is statism--deja vu.

Goldberg tries to redefine accepted terms in ways that obfuscate. If Mussolini was a Leftist by the time he came to power, then Mordecai Kaplan was an Orthodox Rabbi at the time he founded the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College. NOT!

20

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:14 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

Not true. Not true. Not true. Right wingers are people like Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan, believers in the individual, human rights, freedom of expression, minimual govt. intrusion, private property ownership and freedom of religion. Leave the flag waving aside for a moment but where do you see 1) suspicion of foreigners/immigrants and 2) murdering of innocent civilians? That's right! Only in Left Wing Communist paradises like Russia, Cuba, Vietnam, China, North Korea and to a lesser extent, Venezuela.

Social Democrats are Center Left. Incidentally, "gay rights", "animal rights", "Global Warming" and "vegetarianism" are tools of the far Left to supplant belief in G-d and religion, they are not beliefs held by Conservatives, or people on the right, although they wish no harm to homosexuals, neither do they believe they deserve special privileges or "rights".

This woman is a Leftist if I ever saw one.

In the US political scene today, most of the anti-immigrant sentiment comes from right wing Republicans like Steve King and J. D. Hayworth.

Russia isn't communist anymore. (That doesn't mean it is a democracy.)

You also ignore right wing thuggeries of the past generation like Pinochet's Chile and its allies. It even carried out acts of international terrorism. (Google Operation Condor or Orlando Letelier for examples.)

Compassionate treatment of animals is a Torah mandate, global warming is a fact (what caused it is open to debate), and it is mutar for a frum Jew to be a vegetarian.

21

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:16 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

Not true. Not true. Not true. Right wingers are people like Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln and Ronald Reagan, believers in the individual, human rights, freedom of expression, minimual govt. intrusion, private property ownership and freedom of religion. Leave the flag waving aside for a moment but where do you see 1) suspicion of foreigners/immigrants and 2) murdering of innocent civilians? That's right! Only in Left Wing Communist paradises like Russia, Cuba, Vietnam, China, North Korea and to a lesser extent, Venezuela.

Social Democrats are Center Left. Incidentally, "gay rights", "animal rights", "Global Warming" and "vegetarianism" are tools of the far Left to supplant belief in G-d and religion, they are not beliefs held by Conservatives, or people on the right, although they wish no harm to homosexuals, neither do they believe they deserve special privileges or "rights".

This woman is a Leftist if I ever saw one.

Lincoln did NOT believe in minimal governmental intrusion! Under his leadership, the federal government began massive programs to encourage settlement of the west, build the transcontinental railroad, support agriculture, and encourage business. It was very much the opposite of Jefferson. And his suppression of civil liberties during the civil war was unprecedented before or since.

22

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:16 PM 5T Resident Says:

Why there are still Jews living in Austria and Germany is beyond me. I can't stand hearing German being spoken on the streets of NY. How can these Jews live there, when these countries (and Poland too) are soaked with Jewish blood?

23

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:18 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

Fascism is not necessarily right-wing. Fascism incorporates both right and left wing extremes and is really independent of contemporary political identifiers.
Attributing Hitlers monstrosities to a particular political orientation is just a way for hyper-partisans to score cheap political points, devoid of any historical context. Does anyone look at a typical chai-tea-sipping-liberal-hippie in Park Slope or shotgun-totting redneck hunter in Oklahoma and think Nazi? I think not.
It's time to grow up, and stop the name-calling. Nothing of substantive value ever arises from it.

You are responding to the wrong comment. It was comment #1 that started the name-calling by insisting that the Nazis were a far left movement. The name-calling is in the spirit of Jonah Goldberg's book that tries to slander contemporary mainstream American political positions with false Nazi connections.

24

 Mar 02, 2010 at 03:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

Charlie, please go back & reread 1984. Winston Smith didn't try to rewrite history, Big Brother & his inner circle did. Smith worked in a Govt. Ministry & was paid to change past news articles but he had an epiphany, and then became a truth seeker. The Right Wingers in America similarly want the truth of history exposed. It is Left Wingers like Howard Zinn who are rewriting history to make America seem aggressive and imperialistic. Since

Fascists (like others on the Left) do not believe in the power of the individual and advocate a single party state. Fascists are cultists, not religious (believers of Social Darwinism) and support the creation of a totalitarian state, all definitely in the Left Wing Camp. Charlie Hall is just throwing out names while ignoring the bigger picture, namely, the elimination of individual rights, which the Right abhors.
If more people listened to Rush Limbaugh & Michael Savage, there would be a push for more freedom in America & less taxation and Govt. intrusion.

Stop blathering. The fact that you admit to getting your ideas from the likes of Limbaugh and Weiner speaks volumes to your cult-like attraction to vapid self-aggrandizing and empty-headed blowhards. I don't recall any of these clowns calling for a multiparty country. Instead I hear a steady drumbeat of "defeating" and "eliminating" any dissenting opinion in favor of their own single party rule.

Projection is an ugly thing.

25

 Mar 02, 2010 at 04:14 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

Hitler ym"sh was far left. Read some history.

I was born in Vienna and lvied in Vienna until 1941. You don't know what you are talking. Krupp, Siemens, IG Farben, supported him and the Catholic Church signed the Concordate Agreement and the Junkers supported him. He was responsible for the gas chambers and the extermination of my family. Menachem Begin saved himself in the far left communist Soviet Union . This past Purim little hoodlum with pyes and dressing up in streimlach wore in Mea shearim SS and Einsatztruppen uniforms. Check it out and don't argue about left or right because you don't know what you are talking and it is very sad

26

 Mar 02, 2010 at 04:33 PM anonymous Says:

VIN is posting some important political/historical news unfortunately some of the readership have the brain dulled by the current rabble rousing talk shows without knowing any history. Hitler was supported by the entire German industrial might, by the German officer choir , by the Catholic and Protestant Church what more to do you want and it is now openly supported by Bishop Williamson in
Britain, he was also supported by Ford and Lindbergh in the United States, anymore needed

27

 Mar 02, 2010 at 04:54 PM anonymous Says:

The entire officer corps including the Austrian officer corps wasraring to start the war, eager to put all Jews in concentration camps and the Hitler Youth sang "wenn Judenblut vom Messer spritzt"when Jewish blood spurts from the dagger and it did. The world watched and applauded him

28

 Mar 02, 2010 at 05:08 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

Charlie, please go back & reread 1984. Winston Smith didn't try to rewrite history, Big Brother & his inner circle did. Smith worked in a Govt. Ministry & was paid to change past news articles but he had an epiphany, and then became a truth seeker. The Right Wingers in America similarly want the truth of history exposed. It is Left Wingers like Howard Zinn who are rewriting history to make America seem aggressive and imperialistic. Since

Fascists (like others on the Left) do not believe in the power of the individual and advocate a single party state. Fascists are cultists, not religious (believers of Social Darwinism) and support the creation of a totalitarian state, all definitely in the Left Wing Camp. Charlie Hall is just throwing out names while ignoring the bigger picture, namely, the elimination of individual rights, which the Right abhors.
If more people listened to Rush Limbaugh & Michael Savage, there would be a push for more freedom in America & less taxation and Govt. intrusion.

You didn't read the last line in the novel, did you?

In any case, the US openly adopted an openly aggressive imperialistic foreign policy in the administration of William McKinley. You can look it up. For the next century the US regularly intervened in internal affairs of countries in the Western Hemisphere and occasionally elsewhere. There is little evidence that such intervention did any good. (See Haiti for an excellent example.) And in most cases, such interventions were on the side of the opponents of liberty and freedom.

And Francisco Franco would be very surprised to be called not religious. He was a devout Catholic! You really need to go back to reading real history rather than the Savage/Limbaugh distortions.

29

 Mar 02, 2010 at 05:11 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #26  
anonymous Says:

VIN is posting some important political/historical news unfortunately some of the readership have the brain dulled by the current rabble rousing talk shows without knowing any history. Hitler was supported by the entire German industrial might, by the German officer choir , by the Catholic and Protestant Church what more to do you want and it is now openly supported by Bishop Williamson in
Britain, he was also supported by Ford and Lindbergh in the United States, anymore needed

There were actually some Protestants and Catholics who did oppose Hitler. One Catholic, Von Stauffenberg, tried to assassinate him. But on the whole, you are correct; as I have pointed out the only significant opposition was from the Left and it was crushed by the end of 1933.

30

 Mar 02, 2010 at 05:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
anonymous Says:

VIN is posting some important political/historical news unfortunately some of the readership have the brain dulled by the current rabble rousing talk shows without knowing any history. Hitler was supported by the entire German industrial might, by the German officer choir , by the Catholic and Protestant Church what more to do you want and it is now openly supported by Bishop Williamson in
Britain, he was also supported by Ford and Lindbergh in the United States, anymore needed

Because he promised them slave labor, a by-product of the Left, not the Right.

31

 Mar 02, 2010 at 05:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Charlie Hall Says:

You didn't read the last line in the novel, did you?

In any case, the US openly adopted an openly aggressive imperialistic foreign policy in the administration of William McKinley. You can look it up. For the next century the US regularly intervened in internal affairs of countries in the Western Hemisphere and occasionally elsewhere. There is little evidence that such intervention did any good. (See Haiti for an excellent example.) And in most cases, such interventions were on the side of the opponents of liberty and freedom.

And Francisco Franco would be very surprised to be called not religious. He was a devout Catholic! You really need to go back to reading real history rather than the Savage/Limbaugh distortions.

The last line detracts nothing from my argument. A lot of extreme Left Wingers kept their religion to not antagonize the peasant class. That doesn't mean that their doctrines supported religion, but, over time, religious observance fades.

32

 Mar 02, 2010 at 05:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
Anonymous Says:

Stop blathering. The fact that you admit to getting your ideas from the likes of Limbaugh and Weiner speaks volumes to your cult-like attraction to vapid self-aggrandizing and empty-headed blowhards. I don't recall any of these clowns calling for a multiparty country. Instead I hear a steady drumbeat of "defeating" and "eliminating" any dissenting opinion in favor of their own single party rule.

Projection is an ugly thing.

Liar. You hear no such thing. Talk radio is the last bastion of free speech in America. You are just an unapologetic Leftist with a closed mind and a heart made of ice. It's useless to argue with idiots.

33

 Mar 02, 2010 at 06:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
anonymous Says:

I was born in Vienna and lvied in Vienna until 1941. You don't know what you are talking. Krupp, Siemens, IG Farben, supported him and the Catholic Church signed the Concordate Agreement and the Junkers supported him. He was responsible for the gas chambers and the extermination of my family. Menachem Begin saved himself in the far left communist Soviet Union . This past Purim little hoodlum with pyes and dressing up in streimlach wore in Mea shearim SS and Einsatztruppen uniforms. Check it out and don't argue about left or right because you don't know what you are talking and it is very sad

Regardless of where you were born, Hitler did favors for the Capitalist Industrialists like Krupp so that he could consolidate his power base, even though some of his Leftist Socialist cronies were against aligning themselves with Capitalists. It certainly DOES matter whether a politician is Left or Right because Leftists believe in Big Government controlling our lives and Right-Wingers believe in freedom for the individual & minimal government intrusion into people's lives. I am always amazed how many "Senior Citizens" are so clueless as to political reality.

34

 Mar 02, 2010 at 06:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
Charlie Hall Says:

In the US political scene today, most of the anti-immigrant sentiment comes from right wing Republicans like Steve King and J. D. Hayworth.

Russia isn't communist anymore. (That doesn't mean it is a democracy.)

You also ignore right wing thuggeries of the past generation like Pinochet's Chile and its allies. It even carried out acts of international terrorism. (Google Operation Condor or Orlando Letelier for examples.)

Compassionate treatment of animals is a Torah mandate, global warming is a fact (what caused it is open to debate), and it is mutar for a frum Jew to be a vegetarian.

Your conglomerate throwing out of pop cultural references makes you hard to place but I'd wager you're a typical New York Liberal Jew from a lower-middle-class background with a high school education who thinks the Bill of Rights is what comes to your table after the meal is finished. You casually dismiss important items as trivial and trivial items as a Mandate from Shamayim. If Russia isn't Communist anymore, why aren't people clamoring to get into their budding real estate market or buy stocks on the Russian Stock Market? You think Socialist Democracies are superior to Capitalism? Try opening up a Starbucks in S.Petersburg without paying a single bribe.

35

 Mar 02, 2010 at 06:32 PM anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
Charlie Hall Says:

There were actually some Protestants and Catholics who did oppose Hitler. One Catholic, Von Stauffenberg, tried to assassinate him. But on the whole, you are correct; as I have pointed out the only significant opposition was from the Left and it was crushed by the end of 1933.

I was in Buchenwald and the elite of the camp were the Czech[ I was treated there by a two Czech ;physicain on Jewish and one Gentile, not with the approval of the SS], the German Biebelforscher or seven day adventists and various leftist and liberal Germans and Russians. Yes, an eccletic group and block 66 was helped various leftitsts and other anti-Nazis. The Concordate gave the Nazis "die freie Strasse" the free road. Maybe your forgot an elite American law firm,, Oliver and Cromwell which produced Secretary of State, head of American intelligence and defenders of German[Nazi] interest names McCloy, and low behold even Allen Dulles. Today this firm has a minyan

36

 Mar 02, 2010 at 06:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
Charlie Hall Says:

Unlike Germany, the Social Democrats in Austria have not had a great record on issues of concern to us, even though they elected a Jewish Prime Minister in the 1960s. While in much of Europe it is clear that it is the Left that has been best for Jews, it isn't clear that anyone has been good for Jews in Austria since the collapse of the Hapsburg Empire.

The Left has been best for Jews? The Bolsheviks were good for Jews? The Nazis were good for Jews? Stalin was good for the Jews? What are you talking about? The only system in which the Jews really flourished in Europe is under the monarchies of Spain, until they were finally expelled in 1492. In no other European country did the Jews flourish & prosper economically as they did under the Spanish monarchs.

37

 Mar 02, 2010 at 06:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
Charlie Hall Says:

There were actually some Protestants and Catholics who did oppose Hitler. One Catholic, Von Stauffenberg, tried to assassinate him. But on the whole, you are correct; as I have pointed out the only significant opposition was from the Left and it was crushed by the end of 1933.

Get over your fascination with the Left, they are out for your money, your creativity, your productive years, your freedom, your individuality and once they use you up and steal everything you've got, they will chew you up, spit you out and there will be nothing left of you, just like Winston Smith who said, "I love Big Brother." Do you want to have your brain & your individuality sucked out of you? If yes, then jump on the Obama bandwagon & join "Organizing for America".

38

 Mar 02, 2010 at 07:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
Anonymous Says:

Liar. You hear no such thing. Talk radio is the last bastion of free speech in America. You are just an unapologetic Leftist with a closed mind and a heart made of ice. It's useless to argue with idiots.

Thanks for telling me what I hear. What does free speech have anything to do with the content of a bunch of sensational propagandist preaching to the sufficiently gullible? Oh yes; nothing.

Hearts made of ice belong to people on the right who can find endless trillions to bomb their favorite targets, but can't find a hundredth of that money to provide temporary security to millions of unemployed Americans.

Based on your analysis, I wouldn't recommend arguing with yourself.

39

 Mar 02, 2010 at 08:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
Anonymous Says:

Thanks for telling me what I hear. What does free speech have anything to do with the content of a bunch of sensational propagandist preaching to the sufficiently gullible? Oh yes; nothing.

Hearts made of ice belong to people on the right who can find endless trillions to bomb their favorite targets, but can't find a hundredth of that money to provide temporary security to millions of unemployed Americans.

Based on your analysis, I wouldn't recommend arguing with yourself.

...who were made unemployed by the likes of the Leftist Socialist Marxists who are seeking to destroy American Capitalism and with it, all the millions of jobs that gave the U.S. the highest standard of living in the Universe. "Temporary Security"? The only security is a strong, professional Army that is unafraid to bomb our avowed enemies in defense of freedom on American shores. If Obama had his way, talk radio & internet blogging would be permanently curtailed, but gullible people like you see no problem with that.

40

 Mar 02, 2010 at 09:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Anonymous Says:

...who were made unemployed by the likes of the Leftist Socialist Marxists who are seeking to destroy American Capitalism and with it, all the millions of jobs that gave the U.S. the highest standard of living in the Universe. "Temporary Security"? The only security is a strong, professional Army that is unafraid to bomb our avowed enemies in defense of freedom on American shores. If Obama had his way, talk radio & internet blogging would be permanently curtailed, but gullible people like you see no problem with that.

I don't know why I bother.

Exercise: try standing in front of a mirror and coming up with an original thought not parroted 4,827 times on right-wing radio shows every day. Good luck.

41

 Mar 02, 2010 at 10:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

I don't know why I bother.

Exercise: try standing in front of a mirror and coming up with an original thought not parroted 4,827 times on right-wing radio shows every day. Good luck.

Just open up your bag of smart remarks and find one logical argument that I am wrong, just one based on truth and not fear and misunderstanding.

42

 Mar 02, 2010 at 11:37 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

hey you don't know what you're talking about. I'm also a coservative (i also listen to Limbaugh and Hannity). but you're confusing the facts. Hitler ym"s was far right. he did not believe in equality, taxes, services for the poor, He discriminated against minorities as far as wanting to kill them all. All he wanted was a strong army.

Maybe you should do some research. #1 was right. Hitler was a socialist, and definitely did believe in all those things. His slogan was "gemeinnutz geht vor eigennutz" (the community's needs come before the individual's own needs), which is as neat a summary of socialism as anyone's come up with since the original "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

43

 Mar 02, 2010 at 11:42 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #10  
Charlie Hall Says:

Right wingers in the US are trying to rewrite history no less than the fictional Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984. To call Hitler, Mussolini, Laval, Szálasi, Dmowski, or Franco "left wing" is like calling a pig kosher. All were brutal fascists who supported a corporate state and massive violations of civil liberties. The ONLY tiny grain of truth is that Mussolini and Laval did start out their political lives as socialists, but that was long in the past by the time either came to power. And the only ones on that list who was not a party to the Shoah were Dmowski -- because he died in 1939 -- and Franco, who actually saved a few Jewish lives.

Mussolini was one of Europe's leading Marxist intellectuals, who only broke with the world socialist movement over his support for Italy in WW1. The corporate state is the ultimate leftist ideal; every socialist believes in it, and every conservative is horrified by it.

44

 Mar 03, 2010 at 12:00 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #20  
Charlie Hall Says:

In the US political scene today, most of the anti-immigrant sentiment comes from right wing Republicans like Steve King and J. D. Hayworth.

Russia isn't communist anymore. (That doesn't mean it is a democracy.)

You also ignore right wing thuggeries of the past generation like Pinochet's Chile and its allies. It even carried out acts of international terrorism. (Google Operation Condor or Orlando Letelier for examples.)

Compassionate treatment of animals is a Torah mandate, global warming is a fact (what caused it is open to debate), and it is mutar for a frum Jew to be a vegetarian.

Anti-immigrant sentiment comes from the right?! Another Democrat lie. You can't quote anything by King or Hayworth against immigrants; what you will find is against ILLEGAL immigrants, which is a very different matter. And opposition to new immigration is mostly found on the left, especially the environmental movement.

45

 Mar 03, 2010 at 12:02 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #21  
Charlie Hall Says:

Lincoln did NOT believe in minimal governmental intrusion! Under his leadership, the federal government began massive programs to encourage settlement of the west, build the transcontinental railroad, support agriculture, and encourage business. It was very much the opposite of Jefferson. And his suppression of civil liberties during the civil war was unprecedented before or since.

You're right that Lincoln was a tyrant and probably a believer in socialism (or rather its ideological predecessors). He is no hero.

46

 Mar 03, 2010 at 12:56 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #21  
Charlie Hall Says:

Lincoln did NOT believe in minimal governmental intrusion! Under his leadership, the federal government began massive programs to encourage settlement of the west, build the transcontinental railroad, support agriculture, and encourage business. It was very much the opposite of Jefferson. And his suppression of civil liberties during the civil war was unprecedented before or since.

Some commenters above seem to be under the impression that large industrialists are for capitalism, and any government that they support must be capitalist. Looking at the actual history of big business shows that the opposite is more nearly true. Capitalism is good for small businesses, and helps them become big, but once they become big they want to shut the door behind them and keep out any competition, and for that capitalism is no longer their friend. Suddenly they want stict government control and regulation, the stricter the better, since the costs it will impose will fall mainly on their smaller would-be competitors, while they are big enough to buy their way around any difficulties it may pose them. When the government looks for regulators, where will it go to find them? In the ranks of big business. And when those regulators retire and look for jobs in the private sector, they will find a welcome home.

47

 Mar 03, 2010 at 08:12 AM anonymous Says:

Reply to #42  
Milhouse Says:

Maybe you should do some research. #1 was right. Hitler was a socialist, and definitely did believe in all those things. His slogan was "gemeinnutz geht vor eigennutz" (the community's needs come before the individual's own needs), which is as neat a summary of socialism as anyone's come up with since the original "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

Why don't you check out whom Hitler's financial wizard Hjalmar Schacht visited in America for the "Sanierung der Rentenmark" and from whom he got ars . It is exactly because international financiers would not have supported socialist Nazis and Rohm was stabbed to death during the lange Nacht. Lo and behold and an American Investment bank due to Schacht's American wife's connection opened their big pockets . You brain is fossilied and your thinking is conditioned by blinders

48

 Mar 03, 2010 at 07:59 AM anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
Milhouse Says:

Some commenters above seem to be under the impression that large industrialists are for capitalism, and any government that they support must be capitalist. Looking at the actual history of big business shows that the opposite is more nearly true. Capitalism is good for small businesses, and helps them become big, but once they become big they want to shut the door behind them and keep out any competition, and for that capitalism is no longer their friend. Suddenly they want stict government control and regulation, the stricter the better, since the costs it will impose will fall mainly on their smaller would-be competitors, while they are big enough to buy their way around any difficulties it may pose them. When the government looks for regulators, where will it go to find them? In the ranks of big business. And when those regulators retire and look for jobs in the private sector, they will find a welcome home.

I highlyh recommend that you seek ECT which I believe may? open your cerebral pathway and give a chance to form new dendrils and your stiltified mind may clear up

49

 Mar 03, 2010 at 07:49 AM anonymous Says:

Reply to #42  
Milhouse Says:

Maybe you should do some research. #1 was right. Hitler was a socialist, and definitely did believe in all those things. His slogan was "gemeinnutz geht vor eigennutz" (the community's needs come before the individual's own needs), which is as neat a summary of socialism as anyone's come up with since the original "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

You are a blinded ignoramus. Thyssen, Krupp, I.G. Farben, and the German Officer Corps all supported him. The leftist in the Nazi Party was Rohm who was stabbed to death. How about American businesses and Banks , Ford and Lindbergh. Go back and take history 101 and maybe your verstopte kop will be irrigated and cleansed

50

 Mar 03, 2010 at 09:16 AM Richard Nixon Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

What Europeans call the Far Right (Nazis and their apologists) is actually the Extreme Left according to American standards. The National Socialists (Nazis) were a Left-wing party of Socialists that took their strategy right from the Karl Marx play book. Socialists like to tax and spend, socialists want government control even over trivial aspects of your life and socialists believe in euthanizing "inferior" people, all of which are anathema to Right Wingers.

Just as I always suspected. The EU doesn't know its left from its right.

51

 Mar 03, 2010 at 03:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #49  
anonymous Says:

You are a blinded ignoramus. Thyssen, Krupp, I.G. Farben, and the German Officer Corps all supported him. The leftist in the Nazi Party was Rohm who was stabbed to death. How about American businesses and Banks , Ford and Lindbergh. Go back and take history 101 and maybe your verstopte kop will be irrigated and cleansed

They all supported him because 1) like him they were anti-semites and saw in him the solution to the "jewish problem" and 2) because he gave them what they wanted, slave labour, a market for their products and a war which makes the rich industrialists richer. There are other historical reasons why Hitler had such wide support but it certainly wasn't because they beleived in his polictal views.

52

 Mar 03, 2010 at 03:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
Milhouse Says:

Some commenters above seem to be under the impression that large industrialists are for capitalism, and any government that they support must be capitalist. Looking at the actual history of big business shows that the opposite is more nearly true. Capitalism is good for small businesses, and helps them become big, but once they become big they want to shut the door behind them and keep out any competition, and for that capitalism is no longer their friend. Suddenly they want stict government control and regulation, the stricter the better, since the costs it will impose will fall mainly on their smaller would-be competitors, while they are big enough to buy their way around any difficulties it may pose them. When the government looks for regulators, where will it go to find them? In the ranks of big business. And when those regulators retire and look for jobs in the private sector, they will find a welcome home.

Capitalism is also good for the working classes. After all the big industrialits must have customers for their cars and washing machines and air-conditioners etc. The best proof, America's high wage, high production free-market economy has made it the the richest, most powerful and free-est country in the world. Compare it with Communist, socialist Russia. Low production, low wage, poverty, totalitarian dictatorship and ultimately collapse.

53

 Mar 03, 2010 at 03:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
Charlie Hall Says:

Lincoln did NOT believe in minimal governmental intrusion! Under his leadership, the federal government began massive programs to encourage settlement of the west, build the transcontinental railroad, support agriculture, and encourage business. It was very much the opposite of Jefferson. And his suppression of civil liberties during the civil war was unprecedented before or since.

The whole idea of the civil war was crazy! Millions of his own people killed in their prime and for what? Had Lincoln not been assasinated there would have been no reconstruction and the consequenses are unthinkable. Lev melech vesorov betad Hashem.

54

 Mar 07, 2010 at 01:45 PM Professor Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Franco never persecuted Jews. Indeed those few jews who managed to get to Spain during the war were welcomed and were safe.

Perhaps you meant to direct your comments to somebody else. Yes, you're right about Franco. It is part of Left-Wing Progressive/Marxist propaganda to glorify
the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade" consisting of leftist Americans who fought with
Communists against Franco in the 1930s. (There were misguided naive idealists
amongst those soldiers. Not everyone against Franco was an avowed communist;
but most were and many backed Stalin's Soviet Union regarding it a "Worker's
Paradise.)

55

 Mar 08, 2010 at 11:51 PM Professor Says:

Reply to #19  
Charlie Hall Says:

Goldberg tries to redefine accepted terms in ways that obfuscate. If Mussolini was a Leftist by the time he came to power, then Mordecai Kaplan was an Orthodox Rabbi at the time he founded the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College. NOT!

"If Mussolini was a Leftist..." Mussolini was a socialist as were many members of
the Nazi Party. (National Socialism.) You are brainwashed by ultra-liberal and progressive ideologues who dominate academia. (This has nothing to do with
Kaplan & Reconstructionism.) Goldberg is not the only political scientist who
accurately delineates parellels between fascism and communism.
"Redefine accepted terms..." The Left in this country is guilty of that
obfuscation. There is still an unfortunate trend in the Jewish community to
accept left-wing propaganda. In my opinion, such tendencies are due to the
Holocaust caused by Nazi Germany. But do not forget that Jews under communist
rule were not allowed to practice Judaism nor could they establish schools.

56

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